Dark & Darker was one of the most promising new games scheduled to release in 2023. But then things went very, very, wrong. What happened? Where is the game now? Will it ever release?
Edit: Well it's official, Dark & Darker is back. I'm both happy and hesitant. With them charging, having premium currency, and the game being hosted on a site I've never heard of. Plus the fact that both lawsuits are pending and so the game could theoretically get another DMCA takedown at any point. I'm excited for the game to be back and think it's kind of cool the devs are circumventing Steam, but could also see this all going very south very quickly. Hope it turns out to just be a feel good story of indie devs getting their game out in spite of corpo greed. We'll see. Original Post: As of this morning we got new leaks of a potential early access release soon, via Chaf Games. Still no Steam version and likely there won't be any until the lawsuits clear up.
An important distinction here is that there are two angles of lawsuits taking place. DMCA in the US to keep the game off steam. But in South Korea there is another set of investigations regarding g trade secrets. The DMCA is covered under US law but the other isn’t. So even if they win in the US that doesn’t mean they will win in Korea.
as well iron mace isn’t trying to win in the US rather having the case dismissed, nexon claims that the korean court isn’t competent enough to handle this case (in reality they’re trying to drain iron mace games of funds by doubling up the courts)
yes but they only need to win in US to be back on steam and it was already said multiple times that even if nexon gonna win in korea (which is unlikely) game will still be released
Why? Were these legal troubles resolved? I know that D&D is going into early access today on their own launcher, but this doesn't change the fact that they have legal issues.
@@doctorstrangepants6706 no, but likely they have had closed door discussions that have brought them to a place they feel comfortable releasing the game into EA before the legal matter fully resolves
this is the kind of moment where having a community that likes you instead of just the franchise you milk is important. in the court of opinion, nexon has already lost. if this was blizzard or EA, it would've been the same. if it were valve (or another reputable game company) im not so sure they'll still get this much backlash for opposing it. If Nexon manages to actually shut down this project, it will give them a much worse reputation, especcially in the western market that D&D managed to catch. Don't know if they are willing to take the risk, especially considering they cancelled P3 and therefore having no benefit besides (seemingly) satisfying their petty ego.
Yeah 100% true if they shut down D&D I would NEVER spend a dime on anything Nexon or that Korean company. Even if they apologized and backtracked afterwards I wouldn't care. Tbh they don't need to shut down D&D because imo they've already shown their true colors by doing what they have. They don't care about fun, or games, or us. They care only about money. Not a company I feel like supporting for the purpose of being entertained lol.
5:55 they canceled the development because Iron Mace took key parts of the team working on P3 when they left. After watching a lot of Kiras videos on this topic I truly believe Dark and Darker is not coming out anymore.
13:00 I don't like Nexon but saying this is kinda meh. I imagine its a lot harder than just throwing more devs at a game concept. They would have to make a whole new team and train them if they need training then have them start over on a project. Time and money wise its probably a lot to invest in.
@@keenfire8151 have u watched the news in the past few years? Cases being dropped is no indication of who's right or wrong. Also from what others have said. The US case was civil and just trying to keep the game off us stores. If the dude ends up in prison won't matter will it?
The release of a purchasable game was most likely a cash grab to help their legal battles if I had to guess. Rayon will also probably drag this out in court as long as possible. I will pray for DnD literally my favorite concept of a game and would hate to see it disappear.
It won't disappear. Nexon isn't going to chuck the customer base, likely they will just take ownership of the game or take a large percentage of the profits.
"Who's out there waving the flag for Nexon?" Um, plenty of people. Not that anyone likes Nexon, but anyone who actually looked into the case realized Iron Mace was doing some seriously shady shit with the private server, deleting files, etc. Pretty inaccurate to claim the entire internet is on Iron Mace's side. Yeah, the game is fun and we WANT to be in its corner, but I absolutely would not throw money at Iron Mace as it stands now because there are so many red flags. Wait until the legal shit has been dealt with.
Mr Choi actions were definitely sketchy, I want to defend Ironmace cause I love the game though so I'm pretty conflicted there, and I guess a lot of people are too
@@NModem Yeah, I totally feel you. I can't stand Nexon and Dark & Darker is fun, so it would be easy if Choi wasn't so damn sus. And aside from his actions that have put him in legal hot water, I don't like how he is trying to manipulate the game's fan base into thinking he is some sort of good guy who should be protected just because the game itself is a great time.
Yeah same dude, I see these people preaching how it is the best game ever and all I see is a clunky bad looking dungeon game with pvp. What are these other people seeing?
nexon's "proof" of stolen code. We analyzed your code and we see you have a file named sword, we also have a file named sword! clearly you have stolen sword from us.
@@ForceGamingYT I was supposed to be out by now so it might be anytime. People on Discord are suspecting either in 20min or an hour after now, you can already buy the game apparently, not on steam tho
The one key thing that makes P3 and Dark&Darker different is the extraction portal. P3 never had an extraction portal, it was suppose to be a battle royal where the last man/team standing wins. Also Both P3 and D&D are the creation of the man that Nexon is suing and trying to get criminal charges against in Korea. He also created another game for them that they also put on the shelf and never saw the light of day. The files that Nexon is also claiming are files in which the names are shit like torch, and fireball.
That's not even the point, it doesn't matter if one has a portal and the other doesn't, duh?? That's just an addition they made, what about all the rest of the game? The problems are stolen assets and code. And I'm not saying they did steal anything, just that your argument is complete ignorance
It sounds like you have played P3, so how can you be convinced they don't have an extraction portal? They only did the inner play test in Nexon. In fact, the extraction portal doesn't matter in this case. The problem is that Nexon grinds to make this game's idea, find assets, do QA, and develop this project, and the main developer takes everything with some of the former P3 project members too. During the development of games, development time equals money. They used Nexon's money to develop every idea and game play, and when the game got into the alpha and beta phases, they took all these things with them. Can you really say that is not stealing? The alpha or beta phase means the game's development is almost complete. All you need to do is do a bunch of outside play tests, gather feedback, and fix the game. Dark and Darker just skipped the development phase while they were with Nexon. Which all of ther works supposed to belong to Nexon.
@@taylor895 if it was close to release, why did they shelve it? According to the original poster, they shelved another one of his games too. He's making a game and overseeing everything and they tell him to do something he doesn't want so leaves and forms a new studio and builds a similar game. Even if he designed it very close to the one they had, as long as he didn't steal assets from them, he's fine. Also, the guy said they had stuff listed like fireball and torch. Just say he did steal that along with other small assets like it, is that really something to go after him for? If he stole everything I could understand it. But if it's small shit like that, just have him pay a settlement and be done with it. They shelved the game so aren't losing any money on it.
Dungeon Stalkers: "How will be make our game appealing?!" "Skimpy animegirls in booby armor and lots of magically floating capes that we can sell as microtransactions!"
Thanks for this video. I stumbled upon this game on Twitch today (27 Sep 2023) and I thought it looked neat. You explained everything in the video nicely.(what the game is, the timeline of events, what the devs seem to be doing, etc..) I feel like an expert about the drama without actually participating. Here's to hoping for a new fantastic game to be released!
If the game went down now(Which it wont) I fully support spending 35 bucks on it, this game is the best I've played in years. The combat is extremely challenging in both PVP/PVE, the skill ceiling is unlimited, the chase for gear is irresistible. Learning how to fight each AI effortlessly , learning your role in 3v3 PVP engagements, learning the good loot spots, all of this is extremely rewarding. Finding that synergy with my friends as a team of 3 was amazing. I cant express how much this game kicks ass.
First of your Videos that I personally find badly researched. A lot of context for the Legal cases is missing. Like how P3 was greenlit and should have gone in full Production until after Mr. Choi and most of the Project Leads leaved, then Nexon canceled the Project and allocated the remaining Devs to new Teams. Or the Private Server(s) that Mr. Choi hosted and transfered Company Data to, even after Nexon prohibited this. There's a lot more to this case as just "Big Bad Nexon bullying poor little Iron Mace". I hate Nexon for their Greed, but when you try and take all Information into consideration, it looks like Iron MAce, or at least Mr. Choi and his colleagues tried to fuck over Nexon and got caught. Only thing that remains to be seen is if Nexon can prove this in Court. Someone else here already said it, Kira here on youtube made some really good in-depth Videos about all this already, maybe check them out to get a more balanced impression of all this.
Initially he did receive permission to use a private server. He wiped the server after he was terminated per his employee policy… there was no foul play with the private server.
@@browniesbytes305 That's not 100% correct. Yes he got initially permission, but these was later revoked. Choi himself got on record admiting that those Servers existed and that he ran them without permission later on, that is also what Iron Mace Lawyers admit in the latest court Documents, they only say it wasn't unlawfull. If that is correct, is for a Judge to decide. Also in the same documents Iron Maces lawyers admit that Choi first agreed to cooperate with Nexon and give them these Servers for a Forensic Investigation, but after consulting with a Lawyer, decided to not cooperate and delete the Data because of "Privacy reasons", so nothing with Employee Policy here. I love Dark and Darker and I hope it can still come out. But Iron MAce are definitely not the "poor little Indie Guys" that the Community (and them themself) makes them to be.
"Who's waving the flag for Nexon?" Kira. Kira is. I don't get why he's chosen this hill to die on. But he has. Reporting on reddit posts with incorrect translations as though they're an actual source. Going through the legal documents and cherry picking lines out of context to use as "gotcha".
Not sure I'd even call this a promising game. It's a cool concept with horrible execution. For anyone looking to this video to see if it makes sense for them to buy it, this is a $15 or less game with a $35+ price tag. Don't waste your time or money like I did. Oh! And they don't give refunds either, so don't think you can test it and return if it's trash. It is. Don't bother.
It’s safe to say the game has been ruined to an unfun, uninstalled brick in my game library. The games balance was near perfect. But almost a year later the game has been changed so bad it’s not the same at all anymore
What the hell can anyone claim owmership of in this game... Everything is stereotypical fantasy with extraction pvevp gameplay loop. Worse case recreate the game from scratch again with proff and you can probbaly have a playable alpha in 6 months
This sounds like a salty Nexon VP making a shit decision on canning the P3 project, then seeing success of Dark and Darker, and now is trying to save face.
Not quite sure why everyone is cheering for a studio that more or less stole an idea and potentially even code and assets and is now back with your usual F2P monetisation despite claiming that they were entirely opposed to it.
you say stole, but do you consider every battle royal who came after fortnite to be a stolen concept (not saying that fortnite was the first one either). And for the code, at some point most software/game will have some code that you can find in common, because code will always be code, it's not some kind of art where you have a particular style. So if they coded from scratch the same thing that they did in P3 it itsn't stolen given that they had to write everything again, same for assets And they have been pretty open about it, showing what they are accused of (precisely not just "stolen assets" but the exact name of files) and shown how false it was. So people will side with them given the current information that tends to show ironmace as mostly innocent (with information out right now).
i hate Nexon , they always ruin good game in one way or an other... as for dark and darker i know it release on a korean website but i will play safe and wait for an official release on steam to get on it ( as much as i want to play it... )
You are super disingenuous by repeating Nexon cancelled P3 over and over, and finally when you say that they cancelled it because Choi left and took the entire team you once again downplay this by claiming they could have just replaced everyone and continued. Are you kidding me? Do you know how development works at all? You can't have the lead and most of the team leave, and just continue like normal. That's a major disaster. Do you think someone just walks in and says, yeah I know where they were going with this, easy peasy and just starts adding lines of code? Ridiculous take, and stealing IP from a company isn't just morally wrong it's illegal no matter how much you like the game.
As a programmer I would say that if you wrote the original code, you can replicate that (functionally, not one to one) at a fraction of the time it took to write the original. Because much of the development time is trying things and design approaches until you have something workable to build on, you even have the advantage of re-inventing things (software design) that were less well designed for building on. So my point is, it is not a great benefit to run "stolen code", and I am sure it is any companys policy to not do so. It is however not unlikely that their programmers have some of the original code at home, for inspiration and looking up; or in todays environment it is also not unlikely that parts they did were shared online or acquired online; because it is stupid to invent the wheel for every new game. Then it becomes a grey area of .. is it stealing if you replicate something that you learned how to do in another company, or is it using your experience amd knowledge in your new job ?
Holy fuck, just a simple, clunky movement and combat system, practically no animations, AI that behaves like on an old Cellphone type of AI you'd play CHECKERS AGAINST... yet the most enjoyable game of the year. I enjoyed this game more then any other AAA game 5 years prior. But I digress! How such a simple game? Can have such a hispanic telenovela behind it? is beyond me, but damn sure i hope we'll get more updates, cus' this game with a friend or two is just the best experience you can have in games, PERIOD.
IANAL IF they didn't use code or assets they could have a case at least in the sense that Dark and Darker, while a good idea, isn't an original one really. As a developer, I don't see how code could be "owned" either since it would be very hard to determine what makes that specific architecture/code base unique, but I'm sure legally there's precedent for that. Whatever the case with that is, I hope they win. The world should start to recognize the power these companies have and that they shouldn't have "rights" to anything as poorly determined as an idea for a video game. Now if they were dumb enough to straight up use assets and code from the original project... Yikes dawg.
After you've coded a system once, it stands to reason you'll be able to do it again more quickly. Then supposedly while at Nexon, the main guy was even talking about jumping ship, and making the game himself, while trying to get others in the team to join him, others at Nexon thought that was insane, and there was no way he would actually do that, but here we are. Then during the whole work at home period due to covid, the main guy set up a personal server to organize the team, and apparently kept running it after Nexon made their own system for that purpose, which he kept afterwards, that's something the one raid they got the police to make was supposedly trying to get. Finally, part of why Nexon even cancelled their project may have even been due to him, his departure, and the shenanigans he was up to while at Nexon. If you stop to look at both sides, it really doesn't sound like Iron Mace are the angels they claim to be. Now I'm not saying Nexon are either, as they are one of the companies I even avoid completely, but that main guy at Iron Mace especially really seems like a piece of work, and even if it does eventually get released, I wouldn't count on it being some pure gaming experience devoid of those oh so terrible monetization methods.
@@Someone--Else Yeah I'm not saying they're morally justified, I'm saying I want Nexon to lose. Pretty simple. Anything that chips away at what these corporations have is good in my opinion. A lot of similar issues come up with no-compete clauses and from what I've heard they don't even hold up in court. Of course making a similar product at your own project is probably different but I still hate the idea that these corporations pretend as if it isn't the labour that makes the product and not just their capital.
@@styrofoamsoldier Basically what you're saying is that no one should bother to pay attention to your view point at all then, right, gotcha. The lead guy at Iron Mace sounds like a real piece of shit, if you start a company built around such a piece of shit, don't expect the company to grow into anything other than an even bigger piece of shit, that could be worse than Nexon, if it lasts long enough for that to happen of course. Yet despite that, no matter how fucked up the other side is, you still will back them over Nexon, just because you have a hate on for Nexon. Anyone who is **COMPLETELY** unwilling to even look at both sides, just isn't worth paying attention to.
Anyone else think this is a ploy to help with court cost? 1. It’s over priced 2. NOT ON STEAM OR ANY OTHER MAJOR PLATFORM. 3. Aaa early access isn’t 35. Other opinions are welcome I’d love to debate this.
It is very shady behavior. Don't touch if you aren't okay with potentially losing your money. FromSoftware or any other reputable publisher would never pull a stunt like this.
Can’t be on a major platform due to the lawsuit, 35$ is half of AAA games and I’ll probably put more time into it then most new games that come out. I paid 150$ for tarkov which is still early access and also only available on their website
@@ty313331313 can’t be on major platform cause they could get dmca an just keep your money go ahead. Pay em done be surprised when it gone in a month for a dmca. Paying 150 for tarkov is ducking stupid btw what did u get a cool skin 😂
the fact we have to torrent to game in 2023 is mind blowing, and makes me happy at the same time, as gamers can still do the right thing and unite simply for the love of the game, thats a real gamer move right there.
@@hououinkyouma6063 no it's not? it's half the price of new AAA games at 35$. Do you know what you're talking about, or are you just spreading misinformation?
@@Sn5ck$35 for a game from a completely brand new studio with no prior games and a literal lawsuit happening that can shutdown the game at any moment is ridiculous moron. do you hear yourself? it’s an obvious exit scam. they’re taking your money clown and then leaving when they inevitably lose the lawsuit
you're kinda wrong dude, the guy was the lead developer and director of the project at Nexon and actively destroyed it before leaving and stealing the code. I hate Nexon as much as the next guy but in this case they're right.
@JorgeTorres-uy1ym it's worth... but it's hard. If you like games that are very hard and take time to master.... you will love it. My current extract ratio is like 1 in 3, and that is me doing "good"
If nexon didn't patent their idea then they don't have any legal power over the idea. It is what it is. They should've had their employees sign an nda or a more restrictive contract, like making illegal the reproduction/reverse engineering of their idea.
one of the view voices you can clearly understand on 2.0 speed even though he speaks fast naturally anyways, good video quality good audio quality goo research
i mean it's a legitimate reason to be cheesed if your top talent leaves your studio effectively shutting down the production of a wip and uses said wip to make a new game. If the allegations are true
Am i the only one who cant help but ask that if choi not only left but was able to grab a substantial amount of his old coworkers maybe just maybe they were also recognizing that they werent treated well enough at nexon and that them not being able to leave and continue making games or code would only encourage abuse by companies? Add in that honestly little in dark and darker could be considered original or even an idea nexon could own would be terrible precedent? Like so what if they have the same classes? Gonna go after wizards of the coast next? None of the enemies are original. None of the spells are really original. Most of the perks again have literal translation into dnd. Even the code for enemies is basic enough to where its argueble if one should be able to claim ownership. Could maybe go after the art but if its made by the same artists and directors of course its gonna have similarities. To me this has little difference from the case pubg tried against fortnite for both being a battle royal.... the difference is dark and darker is an extraction game and p3 was a battle royal so technically even the game genre dont match fully.
I don't have enough information to determine whether DnD is the spawn of P3 or not, but it's a sad example of a case where in a perfect world, Nexon would recognize that Dark and Dark's success is likely more than they ever could have hoped for with their own project, and/or the press greater with the controversy than would have been the case otherwise, and simply push for a revenue-sharing agreement, allowing Ironmace to retain ownership and letting them publish. This title will clearly generate a significant dollar amount, enough for both parties...but we do not live in that world.
On what grounds do you say that? Dave the Diver just released to massive success. Whos to say that DnD would be any different if it hadn't been stolen from Nexon? That's what i don't get about all you fanboys. You are pinning this on Nexon, how about pinning it on the greedy fuck who stole not just the game code but the whole team?
Imagine having someone violate their employee contract, steal employees, take your code and put it on a private server then be told they should be happy about it. Gamers have no business sense and no clue about this industry
Nexon did offer to put money into the project so they didn't need to go this route. Ironmace said they didn't want to share in the profits. So here we are.
You sound like if I steal something good from your house and I post and sell that goods on the internet to get a huge amount of money, but you are not going to claim any issue with it. What a smart guy! I will definitely start to steal other people's stuff. Why should I invest my time and money to develop new things? You can just steal it from others :)
What's so cool about the torrent stuff is how it allows them to give the game even tho they are unable to give the game with their own means. Giving the game to 80k players requires pretty big servers. So yeah, torrent isn't JUST for piracy lol. It's just so great
The fact that Ironmace is putting ALL of their eggs in one basket is a good sign. These people are so confident in their defense that they are willing to launch playtests, sell the game as early access, have a dedicated support team, and run micro transactions. All while every last dev is busy working on new content for a SINGLE PROJECT that is under "investigation." They are not afraid of this lawsuit. They have their asses covered and they know it, so it's full steam ahead even while burning millions in frivolous lawsuits. While most of the recent patches haven't been amazing, their level of dedication, feedback, and support is something rarely seen in the gaming ecosystem.
If by any chance the game is taken down, I wonder if someone will make a single player mod, like SPTarkov. That would be cool, could at least raid the dungeons, wouldn't be as nearly as good but better than nothing.
Dark and Darker is fun, but its really really bad for solo players and there's not enough content. The game is getting stale and is increasingly becoming unfair with all the healing nerfs and all the other bs they are adding and not adding and crapping on the game. Also F nexon. Ironmace deserves better unless they crap all over their own game. After all WoW killed WoW not another company
Rough and clunky combat is why the game is successful. Sure it has some edges it needs to smooth out, but smoothing it out to replicate modern games would kill the entire appeal of the game lol
@@IIMiikexDII May just be me then; it was not appealing to be as clunky as it was. Felt like it could be much smoother. I am fine with slow but it did not feel like the game responded to my input very well at all.
@@Prawnsacrifice OnePeg has been covering the whole legal battle in detail on his channel with with actual court filings etc. Nexon is a scammy company using the courts to punish an indie competitor.
@@BadManOhBadMannexon still hasn’t directed the korean court to compare the coding lol iron mace has stated several times their willing to compare the coding through third party under the court but nexon won’t because they know they’re in the wrong
Thankyou for calling out the day before, and then later the day after.....you never said that. Yes Steam displayed both the day before and thern agin laterr the day after. You could search taht for 36 days and both would display the name. That helps your ealier videos. THEY had 2 titles. I screen shotted both. Come on man. It changes inside 6 hour windows.
Despite what many are claiming, the game technically was *NOT* released today. The more accurate statement is that it started it's **early access** release today, *in South Korea.* Basically it's in a paid beta state, or such, not a full release, and a regional one at that. Then as Chaf Games is a South Korean company, servicing games for the South Korean market, don't expect there to be servers outside of South Korea. This also means should it ever get a global release, of some form, if you picked it up now, I wouldn't expect you to be able to continue playing using your data from the Chaf Games release, on the global servers, and also would expect that you'll need to purchase it again for the global release, should it require a fee to access it. It should also be noted that back in March, they still didn't know how they were going to monetize it, and I have not seen any more recent info on that matter. Them having no clue how they are going to make money from it, honestly is not reassuring, as it really should have been something they decided, to at least some extent, by that point already. Then their promise to not go the pay to win route by this point for me is just a meaningless promise I've seen too many times before, as all too often the game does go the pay to win route anyhow, so people shouldn't put too much stock into that statement. I get that some people want Dark and Darker to work out well, but with all the stuff the guy in charge at Iron Mace apparently was doing while at Nexon, and what has been going on since then, I really wouldn't count on this working out well, presuming it ever gets a full release at all. Add: Given that there are court caseS in the works already, Chaf Games could easily get ordered to remove Dark and Darker at any time, and the game be shut down. Then if you look around, Chaf Games doesn't come off as being that well run. There's apparently lots of typos on their at least English language pages, when you set up an account, you only enter your password once, not twice as is the norm to help ensure you didn't make a typo, then there's also apparently no way to change your password, even if you contact support, and may not even be a password recovery option, the site is lacking standard things like an about us page, or contact info, and so on. Then the fact they were even willing to take on a game with multiple court cases in the works meant to stop it from being made itself just makes one wonder what they were even thinking when they entered into this arrangement, as all it does is open them up to being sued as well.
Hasn't released in korea yet. This is an international early access release which actually exempts South Korea source: official webpage, news section; Unfortunately, we encountered some challenges that couldn’t be overcome in time for the Early Access launch. As much as it pains us, we won’t be able to service the game in Korea because we are still awaiting a rating from the Korean Game Rating Board (GRAC). We will do everything we can to expedite this process as we have already been granted ratings from other globally recognized game rating boards, including the ESRB, PEGI, and CERO. We will officially support and service the game in Korea as soon as we can overcome this hurdle.
@@DocXGAMCby who... I'm a Korean and this legal case is been going in... I keep tracking their discord and other source and you can guess... To many different story... But one thing for sure... What choi did ain't good and both Nexon, union, police, unanimous sources and news media are in line with the story while it's 180 story inside the IM discord
@@DocXGAMC note: I just watch kira... And damn, choi is stupid enough to keep his mouth shut... Kira just explained both Nexon and IM court documents and damn IM documents and choi's public announcement doesn't align with each other... It's like a jedi shit happening, he keeps in denying and admitting, vice versa
Completely agreed with everything you said save one issue. If Nexon was forced to stop development BECAUSE Choi left and took the team with him...... yeah idk man. That sounds like Choi didn't like the rules of the game he was paid to play and just took his ball and went home. If Nexon can legit prove that's the case, that wouldn't bode well for Dark -N- Darker..
Personally I think that Nexon would also have to prove that they intended to release and distribute the game. If Choi was the brain, Nexon doesnt really have a leg to stand on from a 'code ownership' point of view. AT BEST Nexon should be maybe paid small royalties for the thefts. Itll be interesting to see what the courts decide.
@@dipstick555yea they do idiot. do you know how companies work idiot? when you make code for a company they make you sign papers saying all your work belongs to them. you saying they don’t have a leg to stand on is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
@@dipstick555 That sounds right, but sadly that's not how it works I don't think. Even if Nexon shelved the game and didn't plan on releasing it, anything made is still subject to their ownership, even if it wasn't being used.
@@keenfire8151 according to choi they're not using any of the assets they developed with nexon , its not even the same genre. Only the setting is similar.
@@mactassio21 that's what he's supposed to say mate. There is no other correct answer. As an attorney, bases on what has been shared about the case publicly so far, Choi and team effed up. Choi has pretty much said "Yes I stole thousands of files even after I was told to stop. And yes, the game and character classes are strikingly similar to P3, and yes, I poached key staff that were working on P3 to make a game in the same genre as P3, but no, none of that is contained in our game". Putting my gamer brain and emotions aside, Choi most likely effed up.
Edit: Well it's official, Dark & Darker is back.
I'm both happy and hesitant. With them charging, having premium currency, and the game being hosted on a site I've never heard of. Plus the fact that both lawsuits are pending and so the game could theoretically get another DMCA takedown at any point.
I'm excited for the game to be back and think it's kind of cool the devs are circumventing Steam, but could also see this all going very south very quickly.
Hope it turns out to just be a feel good story of indie devs getting their game out in spite of corpo greed.
We'll see.
Original Post: As of this morning we got new leaks of a potential early access release soon, via Chaf Games. Still no Steam version and likely there won't be any until the lawsuits clear up.
It’s launching today
OnePeg Confirmed Release today on there website and chaf games.
Def not going to play anything else for a long time xD or eating,sleeping,etc xD
It's releasing today on some South Korean website. I don't know how I feel about that. I might wait to see if it ever releases on Steam.
@@HenryBonesJr They can mine my pc as long as I get to play the game idc
@@aakelbo ON GOD
Torrenting a game because it's unavailable, truly the 2007 gaming experience.
tell me your game isnt stolen assets and stolen items. Since it cant be posted on mainstream fair use legal gaming sites / retail launchers.
@@DemonicGoddess accusation is not guilt, or do you think otherwise?
@@DemonicGoddesscan’t be posted on anything because of the legal battle with nexon
@@DemonicGoddess yeah dmca is why it was taken down, doesn't mean they're guilty. That's what court is for, accusations are easy to make
Makes sense for a game that looks like it was developed in 2007 lol
This video's timing couldnt have been more ironic and impeccable at the same time. I am excited for Dark and Darker to come back online!!!
Wait this video isnt being done since the Dark and darker is comming out today?
Enjoy the exit scam boys 😂😂
@@Prawnsacrifice ok nexon employee
@TheRealestGoober i wish i was being payed to say that but nope 😅
@@pininolfg i watched this video and was like "i miss dark and darker" and a couple hours later i found out it came out and was hyped af
The timing on this video is impeccable lol
An important distinction here is that there are two angles of lawsuits taking place. DMCA in the US to keep the game off steam. But in South Korea there is another set of investigations regarding g trade secrets. The DMCA is covered under US law but the other isn’t. So even if they win in the US that doesn’t mean they will win in Korea.
as well iron mace isn’t trying to win in the US rather having the case dismissed, nexon claims that the korean court isn’t competent enough to handle this case (in reality they’re trying to drain iron mace games of funds by doubling up the courts)
yes but they only need to win in US to be back on steam and it was already said multiple times that even if nexon gonna win in korea (which is unlikely) game will still be released
@@Midwestemoismeyeah but they just made a couple mil off opening early access so i don’t see them getting bled out
Well this video didn’t age well
Yeah he should delete it
Shit released and was already cheese, long past aged like milk
Feels completely behind.. why bother
Why? Were these legal troubles resolved? I know that D&D is going into early access today on their own launcher, but this doesn't change the fact that they have legal issues.
@@doctorstrangepants6706 no, but likely they have had closed door discussions that have brought them to a place they feel comfortable releasing the game into EA before the legal matter fully resolves
Iron mace won the lawsuit, if anyone watching this is wondering
Dark n Dark, took me back to a time, where gaming was fun... =D !
Small company gud, big copo bad.
gib internet point.
Game is gonna die off so fast, new players can no longer progress since every lobby is flooded with overgeared people.
Oh btw, p3 was completely different and much more closely resembled a normal battle royale, not an extraction game
this is the kind of moment where having a community that likes you instead of just the franchise you milk is important. in the court of opinion, nexon has already lost. if this was blizzard or EA, it would've been the same. if it were valve (or another reputable game company) im not so sure they'll still get this much backlash for opposing it.
If Nexon manages to actually shut down this project, it will give them a much worse reputation, especcially in the western market that D&D managed to catch. Don't know if they are willing to take the risk, especially considering they cancelled P3 and therefore having no benefit besides (seemingly) satisfying their petty ego.
Valve is bot the same conpany created steam?! I think the logo is pretty much the same
@@constantinossamartzis1811 what?
I assume you meant NOT, and no I never said that. They also make games, less but still.
Yeah 100% true if they shut down D&D I would NEVER spend a dime on anything Nexon or that Korean company. Even if they apologized and backtracked afterwards I wouldn't care.
Tbh they don't need to shut down D&D because imo they've already shown their true colors by doing what they have.
They don't care about fun, or games, or us. They care only about money. Not a company I feel like supporting for the purpose of being entertained lol.
screw these loot and extract games, so lame.
5:55 they canceled the development because Iron Mace took key parts of the team working on P3 when they left. After watching a lot of Kiras videos on this topic I truly believe Dark and Darker is not coming out anymore.
my brother in christ, it launches in a couple of hours
13:00 I don't like Nexon but saying this is kinda meh. I imagine its a lot harder than just throwing more devs at a game concept. They would have to make a whole new team and train them if they need training then have them start over on a project. Time and money wise its probably a lot to invest in.
@@anibalmedina6761 not on steam
It’s launching today my dude
Lmao imagine posting this hours before it launches
Does the game "Greed is good" have anything to do with Dark & Darker and all this drama? Cause it looks really similar but more polished.
What happened? The game is a small fad filled with flawed gameplay, poor map design, clunky animations and bad balancing.
Regardless if Ironmace is legally right, I think we can all expect Nexon to draw this out in court as long as possible so they can bankrupt them.
Initial evidence says he's wrong. Very wrong. Why would he be in the right?
@@chowjappa6470 Well the court case was dropped in the US. Apparently Nexon was in the wrong.
@@keenfire8151 have u watched the news in the past few years? Cases being dropped is no indication of who's right or wrong. Also from what others have said. The US case was civil and just trying to keep the game off us stores. If the dude ends up in prison won't matter will it?
@@chowjappa6470 South Korea is a bit more harsh on laws. He'd never go to jail in the US. Its not that type of case.
@@keenfire8151 dude are u reading what I'm typing? U don't go to jail over civil cases.... omg I'm not replying anymore.
The release of a purchasable game was most likely a cash grab to help their legal battles if I had to guess. Rayon will also probably drag this out in court as long as possible. I will pray for DnD literally my favorite concept of a game and would hate to see it disappear.
It won't disappear. Nexon isn't going to chuck the customer base, likely they will just take ownership of the game or take a large percentage of the profits.
"Theft is okay as long as I benefit". There I fixed your comment
"Who's out there waving the flag for Nexon?" Um, plenty of people. Not that anyone likes Nexon, but anyone who actually looked into the case realized Iron Mace was doing some seriously shady shit with the private server, deleting files, etc.
Pretty inaccurate to claim the entire internet is on Iron Mace's side. Yeah, the game is fun and we WANT to be in its corner, but I absolutely would not throw money at Iron Mace as it stands now because there are so many red flags. Wait until the legal shit has been dealt with.
Mr Choi actions were definitely sketchy, I want to defend Ironmace cause I love the game though so I'm pretty conflicted there, and I guess a lot of people are too
@@NModem Yeah, I totally feel you. I can't stand Nexon and Dark & Darker is fun, so it would be easy if Choi wasn't so damn sus. And aside from his actions that have put him in legal hot water, I don't like how he is trying to manipulate the game's fan base into thinking he is some sort of good guy who should be protected just because the game itself is a great time.
Dark and Darker is abysmal at best. I don't understand the hype. It's clunky, badly optimized and lacking in features/content
Yeah same dude, I see these people preaching how it is the best game ever and all I see is a clunky bad looking dungeon game with pvp. What are these other people seeing?
Dark and Darker on Steam now, with 70k player count yesterday. Free to play version released, not bad !!
nexon's "proof" of stolen code.
We analyzed your code and we see you have a file named sword, we also have a file named sword! clearly you have stolen sword from us.
You need to check ironmace's response to the claims of nexon tho, will be surprised
LOL this video came out the same day the game is coming out XD
Good news! What time?
@@ForceGamingYT I was supposed to be out by now so it might be anytime. People on Discord are suspecting either in 20min or an hour after now, you can already buy the game apparently, not on steam tho
He’s smoking the “hold the line” crack, just ignore these guys… they need therapy to get over these scammers
@@BadManOhBadMan For a bad man you are a sad sad man
@@ForceGamingYT No one knows, sometime today is all that's confirmed
The one key thing that makes P3 and Dark&Darker different is the extraction portal.
P3 never had an extraction portal, it was suppose to be a battle royal where the last man/team standing wins.
Also
Both P3 and D&D are the creation of the man that Nexon is suing and trying to get criminal charges against in Korea. He also created another game for them that they also put on the shelf and never saw the light of day. The files that Nexon is also claiming are files in which the names are shit like torch, and fireball.
That's not even the point, it doesn't matter if one has a portal and the other doesn't, duh?? That's just an addition they made, what about all the rest of the game? The problems are stolen assets and code. And I'm not saying they did steal anything, just that your argument is complete ignorance
It sounds like you have played P3, so how can you be convinced they don't have an extraction portal? They only did the inner play test in Nexon.
In fact, the extraction portal doesn't matter in this case. The problem is that Nexon grinds to make this game's idea, find assets, do QA, and develop this project, and the main developer takes everything with some of the former P3 project members too. During the development of games, development time equals money. They used Nexon's money to develop every idea and game play, and when the game got into the alpha and beta phases, they took all these things with them. Can you really say that is not stealing? The alpha or beta phase means the game's development is almost complete. All you need to do is do a bunch of outside play tests, gather feedback, and fix the game. Dark and Darker just skipped the development phase while they were with Nexon. Which all of ther works supposed to belong to Nexon.
@@taylor895 nope, I can just read, you should try it sometime. Court cases are very interesting
@ivemissedyou.8900 I just give the energy that I receive....
@@taylor895 if it was close to release, why did they shelve it? According to the original poster, they shelved another one of his games too. He's making a game and overseeing everything and they tell him to do something he doesn't want so leaves and forms a new studio and builds a similar game. Even if he designed it very close to the one they had, as long as he didn't steal assets from them, he's fine. Also, the guy said they had stuff listed like fireball and torch. Just say he did steal that along with other small assets like it, is that really something to go after him for? If he stole everything I could understand it. But if it's small shit like that, just have him pay a settlement and be done with it. They shelved the game so aren't losing any money on it.
Dungeon Stalkers: "How will be make our game appealing?!"
"Skimpy animegirls in booby armor and lots of magically floating capes that we can sell as microtransactions!"
Thanks for this video.
I stumbled upon this game on Twitch today (27 Sep 2023) and I thought it looked neat.
You explained everything in the video nicely.(what the game is, the timeline of events, what the devs seem to be doing, etc..)
I feel like an expert about the drama without actually participating.
Here's to hoping for a new fantastic game to be released!
This has to be a troll post….
@TreyfromtheA
I was being genuine.
I haven't looked at the game since my comment though.
the game lives and is stronger than ever
I want to buy it .....bur i s33 it being shutdown
Going to wait till they win the law suit. The whole thing is pretty suss!
I mean, Nexon is known to be a shit company too
If the game went down now(Which it wont) I fully support spending 35 bucks on it, this game is the best I've played in years. The combat is extremely challenging in both PVP/PVE, the skill ceiling is unlimited, the chase for gear is irresistible. Learning how to fight each AI effortlessly , learning your role in 3v3 PVP engagements, learning the good loot spots, all of this is extremely rewarding. Finding that synergy with my friends as a team of 3 was amazing. I cant express how much this game kicks ass.
lmao, can't wait for u to realize its a broken mess. see u in 40hours
First of your Videos that I personally find badly researched. A lot of context for the Legal cases is missing. Like how P3 was greenlit and should have gone in full Production until after Mr. Choi and most of the Project Leads leaved, then Nexon canceled the Project and allocated the remaining Devs to new Teams. Or the Private Server(s) that Mr. Choi hosted and transfered Company Data to, even after Nexon prohibited this. There's a lot more to this case as just "Big Bad Nexon bullying poor little Iron Mace". I hate Nexon for their Greed, but when you try and take all Information into consideration, it looks like Iron MAce, or at least Mr. Choi and his colleagues tried to fuck over Nexon and got caught. Only thing that remains to be seen is if Nexon can prove this in Court. Someone else here already said it, Kira here on youtube made some really good in-depth Videos about all this already, maybe check them out to get a more balanced impression of all this.
Initially he did receive permission to use a private server. He wiped the server after he was terminated per his employee policy… there was no foul play with the private server.
@@browniesbytes305 That's not 100% correct. Yes he got initially permission, but these was later revoked. Choi himself got on record admiting that those Servers existed and that he ran them without permission later on, that is also what Iron Mace Lawyers admit in the latest court Documents, they only say it wasn't unlawfull. If that is correct, is for a Judge to decide.
Also in the same documents Iron Maces lawyers admit that Choi first agreed to cooperate with Nexon and give them these Servers for a Forensic Investigation, but after consulting with a Lawyer, decided to not cooperate and delete the Data because of "Privacy reasons", so nothing with Employee Policy here.
I love Dark and Darker and I hope it can still come out. But Iron MAce are definitely not the "poor little Indie Guys" that the Community (and them themself) makes them to be.
Calling Kira's videos "balanced" is hilarious
Its such a boring game..
who doesnt know what torrents are and how to manage them? even if so, you can ''learn'' that in less than a minute
GG other than that :)
"Who's waving the flag for Nexon?" Kira. Kira is. I don't get why he's chosen this hill to die on. But he has. Reporting on reddit posts with incorrect translations as though they're an actual source. Going through the legal documents and cherry picking lines out of context to use as "gotcha".
Dark and Darker is a paid game that has microtransactions via red stones. Indeed. What happened to the game we all fell in love with?
Not sure I'd even call this a promising game. It's a cool concept with horrible execution. For anyone looking to this video to see if it makes sense for them to buy it, this is a $15 or less game with a $35+ price tag. Don't waste your time or money like I did. Oh! And they don't give refunds either, so don't think you can test it and return if it's trash. It is. Don't bother.
It’s safe to say the game has been ruined to an unfun, uninstalled brick in my game library.
The games balance was near perfect. But almost a year later the game has been changed so bad it’s not the same at all anymore
There's no way he posted this on accident 😂
what a timing. see you ingame soon gamers. hold the line
ok bot
@@deepergodeeper7618 no you
@deepergodeeper7618 been playing the game for hours and hours, get bent shill.
Yes sir
What the hell can anyone claim owmership of in this game... Everything is stereotypical fantasy with extraction pvevp gameplay loop.
Worse case recreate the game from scratch again with proff and you can probbaly have a playable alpha in 6 months
This sounds like a salty Nexon VP making a shit decision on canning the P3 project, then seeing success of Dark and Darker, and now is trying to save face.
Nexxon: THIS IS MY IDEA TO SIT ON AND DO NOTHING WITH. ITS ALL ABOUT MICROTRANSACTIONS AND DLCS. YOU WANT A CHICKEN NUGGET?!
WOW, better give me a fight, or we will really be done after 16 quits. Yea. shadowlands was the end. dragonflight is nothing, all tied up into nothing
any day... 9 month later... still nothing :P reason I don't pay for it :/ too often lost my money betting on the wrong horse and hoping for the best
Not quite sure why everyone is cheering for a studio that more or less stole an idea and potentially even code and assets and is now back with your usual F2P monetisation despite claiming that they were entirely opposed to it.
you say stole, but do you consider every battle royal who came after fortnite to be a stolen concept (not saying that fortnite was the first one either).
And for the code, at some point most software/game will have some code that you can find in common, because code will always be code, it's not some kind of art where you have a particular style.
So if they coded from scratch the same thing that they did in P3 it itsn't stolen given that they had to write everything again, same for assets
And they have been pretty open about it, showing what they are accused of (precisely not just "stolen assets" but the exact name of files) and shown how false it was. So people will side with them given the current information that tends to show ironmace as mostly innocent (with information out right now).
i hate Nexon , they always ruin good game in one way or an other...
as for dark and darker i know it release on a korean website but i will play safe and wait for an official release on steam to get on it ( as much as i want to play it... )
You are super disingenuous by repeating Nexon cancelled P3 over and over, and finally when you say that they cancelled it because Choi left and took the entire team you once again downplay this by claiming they could have just replaced everyone and continued. Are you kidding me? Do you know how development works at all? You can't have the lead and most of the team leave, and just continue like normal. That's a major disaster. Do you think someone just walks in and says, yeah I know where they were going with this, easy peasy and just starts adding lines of code? Ridiculous take, and stealing IP from a company isn't just morally wrong it's illegal no matter how much you like the game.
damnit you old gamer who still composes, best youtuber. In my option kids. Does that make you mad. 40+ done.
As a programmer I would say that if you wrote the original code, you can replicate that (functionally, not one to one) at a fraction of the time it took to write the original. Because much of the development time is trying things and design approaches until you have something workable to build on, you even have the advantage of re-inventing things (software design) that were less well designed for building on.
So my point is, it is not a great benefit to run "stolen code", and I am sure it is any companys policy to not do so. It is however not unlikely that their programmers have some of the original code at home, for inspiration and looking up; or in todays environment it is also not unlikely that parts they did were shared online or acquired online; because it is stupid to invent the wheel for every new game. Then it becomes a grey area of .. is it stealing if you replicate something that you learned how to do in another company, or is it using your experience amd knowledge in your new job ?
Remind people that this type of annoying response came after... 1 delay of the game...
Holy fuck, just a simple, clunky movement and combat system, practically no animations, AI that behaves like on an old Cellphone type of AI you'd play CHECKERS AGAINST... yet the most enjoyable game of the year.
I enjoyed this game more then any other AAA game 5 years prior.
But I digress!
How such a simple game? Can have such a hispanic telenovela behind it? is beyond me, but damn sure i hope we'll get more updates, cus' this game with a friend or two is just the best experience you can have in games, PERIOD.
I have a old balls, thourally embarrased. Now bring us a wow review. Please sir. Shut it down.
IANAL
IF they didn't use code or assets they could have a case at least in the sense that Dark and Darker, while a good idea, isn't an original one really. As a developer, I don't see how code could be "owned" either since it would be very hard to determine what makes that specific architecture/code base unique, but I'm sure legally there's precedent for that. Whatever the case with that is, I hope they win. The world should start to recognize the power these companies have and that they shouldn't have "rights" to anything as poorly determined as an idea for a video game.
Now if they were dumb enough to straight up use assets and code from the original project... Yikes dawg.
After you've coded a system once, it stands to reason you'll be able to do it again more quickly. Then supposedly while at Nexon, the main guy was even talking about jumping ship, and making the game himself, while trying to get others in the team to join him, others at Nexon thought that was insane, and there was no way he would actually do that, but here we are. Then during the whole work at home period due to covid, the main guy set up a personal server to organize the team, and apparently kept running it after Nexon made their own system for that purpose, which he kept afterwards, that's something the one raid they got the police to make was supposedly trying to get. Finally, part of why Nexon even cancelled their project may have even been due to him, his departure, and the shenanigans he was up to while at Nexon.
If you stop to look at both sides, it really doesn't sound like Iron Mace are the angels they claim to be. Now I'm not saying Nexon are either, as they are one of the companies I even avoid completely, but that main guy at Iron Mace especially really seems like a piece of work, and even if it does eventually get released, I wouldn't count on it being some pure gaming experience devoid of those oh so terrible monetization methods.
@@Someone--Else Yeah I'm not saying they're morally justified, I'm saying I want Nexon to lose. Pretty simple. Anything that chips away at what these corporations have is good in my opinion.
A lot of similar issues come up with no-compete clauses and from what I've heard they don't even hold up in court. Of course making a similar product at your own project is probably different but I still hate the idea that these corporations pretend as if it isn't the labour that makes the product and not just their capital.
@@styrofoamsoldier
Basically what you're saying is that no one should bother to pay attention to your view point at all then, right, gotcha.
The lead guy at Iron Mace sounds like a real piece of shit, if you start a company built around such a piece of shit, don't expect the company to grow into anything other than an even bigger piece of shit, that could be worse than Nexon, if it lasts long enough for that to happen of course. Yet despite that, no matter how fucked up the other side is, you still will back them over Nexon, just because you have a hate on for Nexon. Anyone who is **COMPLETELY** unwilling to even look at both sides, just isn't worth paying attention to.
I am young, all my peers know what a torrent is... It is a horse in Elden ring, duh...
This will be the first Tottenham I've downloaded in 15v years.
Anyone else think this is a ploy to help with court cost? 1. It’s over priced 2. NOT ON STEAM OR ANY OTHER MAJOR PLATFORM. 3. Aaa early access isn’t 35. Other opinions are welcome I’d love to debate this.
It is very shady behavior. Don't touch if you aren't okay with potentially losing your money. FromSoftware or any other reputable publisher would never pull a stunt like this.
Can’t be on a major platform due to the lawsuit, 35$ is half of AAA games and I’ll probably put more time into it then most new games that come out. I paid 150$ for tarkov which is still early access and also only available on their website
@@ty313331313 can’t be on major platform cause they could get dmca an just keep your money go ahead. Pay em done be surprised when it gone in a month for a dmca. Paying 150 for tarkov is ducking stupid btw what did u get a cool skin 😂
This did not age well. Dark and darker climb has only just begun.
the fact we have to torrent to game in 2023 is mind blowing, and makes me happy at the same time, as gamers can still do the right thing and unite simply for the love of the game, thats a real gamer move right there.
It's not f2p and the price point is almost the same as a AAA
@@hououinkyouma6063 where do you buy AAA for 35$??????? please tell me so im not spending $89.99 in Canada
@@hououinkyouma6063 35 bucks is literally half of what a AAA tittle costs right now
@@hououinkyouma6063 no it's not? it's half the price of new AAA games at 35$. Do you know what you're talking about, or are you just spreading misinformation?
@@Sn5ck$35 for a game from a completely brand new studio with no prior games and a literal lawsuit happening that can shutdown the game at any moment is ridiculous moron. do you hear yourself? it’s an obvious exit scam. they’re taking your money clown and then leaving when they inevitably lose the lawsuit
If it was a Nexon game, I wouldn't have played it anyway. Nexon is trash.
you're kinda wrong dude, the guy was the lead developer and director of the project at Nexon and actively destroyed it before leaving and stealing the code. I hate Nexon as much as the next guy but in this case they're right.
Shill
Fresh, new, AND novel? Wow, the ultimate triad!
i payed DnD on steam and now i have to buy it again on iron mace gg scammed
Nexon is fucking dead to me. As is Gibson Guitars.
Only those who know how to sail the high seas know what a torrent is :)
lol they don't wanna pull a bsg with the re release
Im a dumb soldier trying to not war, so I pay attention to every free moment i have. Get a torrent bro. I still search those.
Lmao, imagine being this obsessed with a stolen, middling (at best) quality IP.
if you think this game model wont be cloned and made by Riot, blizzard, any triple A company. You're not very bright.
@@Gavinbelson oh you're so right! I mean, look at how Ironmace cloned the idea from Nexon.
@@zacharyhalecry about it some more kid.
TLDR: WE ALL STILL PLAY IT - COME JOIN US
How worth is it? Im really tempted to buy since its on discount
@JorgeTorres-uy1ym it's worth... but it's hard. If you like games that are very hard and take time to master.... you will love it. My current extract ratio is like 1 in 3, and that is me doing "good"
If nexon didn't patent their idea then they don't have any legal power over the idea. It is what it is. They should've had their employees sign an nda or a more restrictive contract, like making illegal the reproduction/reverse engineering of their idea.
one of the view voices you can clearly understand on 2.0 speed even though he speaks fast naturally anyways, good video quality good audio quality goo research
the game lives and is doing better than ever
they are so salty they didn't capitalise on this gem of a game !
Nexon would’ve made this trash
It’s not too late to delete this 💀💀💀
i mean it's a legitimate reason to be cheesed if your top talent leaves your studio effectively shutting down the production of a wip and uses said wip to make a new game. If the allegations are true
What a sordid tale.
Am i the only one who cant help but ask that if choi not only left but was able to grab a substantial amount of his old coworkers maybe just maybe they were also recognizing that they werent treated well enough at nexon and that them not being able to leave and continue making games or code would only encourage abuse by companies? Add in that honestly little in dark and darker could be considered original or even an idea nexon could own would be terrible precedent? Like so what if they have the same classes? Gonna go after wizards of the coast next? None of the enemies are original. None of the spells are really original. Most of the perks again have literal translation into dnd. Even the code for enemies is basic enough to where its argueble if one should be able to claim ownership. Could maybe go after the art but if its made by the same artists and directors of course its gonna have similarities. To me this has little difference from the case pubg tried against fortnite for both being a battle royal.... the difference is dark and darker is an extraction game and p3 was a battle royal so technically even the game genre dont match fully.
13:30
No, you don't.
Have you played Dave the Diver? P3 was to be released before Dave the Diver.
Just to Note: P3 was NEVER an EXTRACTION GAME
I don't have enough information to determine whether DnD is the spawn of P3 or not, but it's a sad example of a case where in a perfect world, Nexon would recognize that Dark and Dark's success is likely more than they ever could have hoped for with their own project, and/or the press greater with the controversy than would have been the case otherwise, and simply push for a revenue-sharing agreement, allowing Ironmace to retain ownership and letting them publish. This title will clearly generate a significant dollar amount, enough for both parties...but we do not live in that world.
On what grounds do you say that? Dave the Diver just released to massive success. Whos to say that DnD would be any different if it hadn't been stolen from Nexon? That's what i don't get about all you fanboys. You are pinning this on Nexon, how about pinning it on the greedy fuck who stole not just the game code but the whole team?
Fun fact: it is a paid game with in-game monetization with an ongoing lawsuit both in and out of Korea....
Imagine having someone violate their employee contract, steal employees, take your code and put it on a private server then be told they should be happy about it. Gamers have no business sense and no clue about this industry
Nexon did offer to put money into the project so they didn't need to go this route. Ironmace said they didn't want to share in the profits. So here we are.
You sound like if I steal something good from your house and I post and sell that goods on the internet to get a huge amount of money, but you are not going to claim any issue with it.
What a smart guy! I will definitely start to steal other people's stuff. Why should I invest my time and money to develop new things? You can just steal it from others :)
What's so cool about the torrent stuff is how it allows them to give the game even tho they are unable to give the game with their own means. Giving the game to 80k players requires pretty big servers. So yeah, torrent isn't JUST for piracy lol. It's just so great
Like drug dealers... super cool
The fact that Ironmace is putting ALL of their eggs in one basket is a good sign. These people are so confident in their defense that they are willing to launch playtests, sell the game as early access, have a dedicated support team, and run micro transactions. All while every last dev is busy working on new content for a SINGLE PROJECT that is under "investigation." They are not afraid of this lawsuit. They have their asses covered and they know it, so it's full steam ahead even while burning millions in frivolous lawsuits. While most of the recent patches haven't been amazing, their level of dedication, feedback, and support is something rarely seen in the gaming ecosystem.
LETS GO IRON MACE, I LOVE THIS FCKNG GAME!!!!!!! NEVER SHUT IT DOWN PLEASE!
Get it all. We are poor. Get some.
- Force Gaming:
"None knows what torrent is."
- Cracked Games:
"Are you sure about that?"
What delicious irony
If by any chance the game is taken down, I wonder if someone will make a single player mod, like SPTarkov. That would be cool, could at least raid the dungeons, wouldn't be as nearly as good but better than nothing.
Dark and Darker is fun, but its really really bad for solo players and there's not enough content. The game is getting stale and is increasingly becoming unfair with all the healing nerfs and all the other bs they are adding and not adding and crapping on the game. Also F nexon. Ironmace deserves better unless they crap all over their own game. After all WoW killed WoW not another company
priatebay, get some
Good promotion
Legal drama aside the game sort of sucked. Combat was rough and controls clunky. The idea is great but felt it had a long way to go.
Rough and clunky combat is why the game is successful. Sure it has some edges it needs to smooth out, but smoothing it out to replicate modern games would kill the entire appeal of the game lol
@@IIMiikexDII May just be me then; it was not appealing to be as clunky as it was. Felt like it could be much smoother. I am fine with slow but it did not feel like the game responded to my input very well at all.
If only he knew what would happen mere hours before he uploaded this
After*
@@HAHAd2 announcement came before
@@RealNotASpy the official announcement from ironmace came after
@@HAHAd2 unofficial announcement came before
@@RealNotASpy the twitter post before this video literally says “nothing confirmed yet” don’t die on this hill lil bro 😂
When I saw this video it seems that I can't see a relation between Dark and Darker and dark messiah of might and magic . I love what I see btw :)
I think it’s also worth pointing out that Ironmace proved that all the assets used were from the unreal engine marketplace, even showing receipts
The coding bud, it’s the coding after. You can go and buy the same assets, let’s see you make the game lol
Why did they buy the exact same assets as p3 if they started from scratch?
@@byronmorley2907 They're pretty basic assets. Same reason why so many games use the same exact Unreal Engine bushes/trees.
@@Prawnsacrifice OnePeg has been covering the whole legal battle in detail on his channel with with actual court filings etc. Nexon is a scammy company using the courts to punish an indie competitor.
@@BadManOhBadMannexon still hasn’t directed the korean court to compare the coding lol iron mace has stated several times their willing to compare the coding through third party under the court but nexon won’t because they know they’re in the wrong
Thankyou for calling out the day before, and then later the day after.....you never said that. Yes Steam displayed both the day before and thern agin laterr the day after. You could search taht for 36 days and both would display the name. That helps your ealier videos. THEY had 2 titles. I screen shotted both. Come on man. It changes inside 6 hour windows.
If things go south, they could just crowd fund it
Despite what many are claiming, the game technically was *NOT* released today.
The more accurate statement is that it started it's **early access** release today, *in South Korea.* Basically it's in a paid beta state, or such, not a full release, and a regional one at that. Then as Chaf Games is a South Korean company, servicing games for the South Korean market, don't expect there to be servers outside of South Korea. This also means should it ever get a global release, of some form, if you picked it up now, I wouldn't expect you to be able to continue playing using your data from the Chaf Games release, on the global servers, and also would expect that you'll need to purchase it again for the global release, should it require a fee to access it.
It should also be noted that back in March, they still didn't know how they were going to monetize it, and I have not seen any more recent info on that matter. Them having no clue how they are going to make money from it, honestly is not reassuring, as it really should have been something they decided, to at least some extent, by that point already. Then their promise to not go the pay to win route by this point for me is just a meaningless promise I've seen too many times before, as all too often the game does go the pay to win route anyhow, so people shouldn't put too much stock into that statement.
I get that some people want Dark and Darker to work out well, but with all the stuff the guy in charge at Iron Mace apparently was doing while at Nexon, and what has been going on since then, I really wouldn't count on this working out well, presuming it ever gets a full release at all.
Add:
Given that there are court caseS in the works already, Chaf Games could easily get ordered to remove Dark and Darker at any time, and the game be shut down. Then if you look around, Chaf Games doesn't come off as being that well run. There's apparently lots of typos on their at least English language pages, when you set up an account, you only enter your password once, not twice as is the norm to help ensure you didn't make a typo, then there's also apparently no way to change your password, even if you contact support, and may not even be a password recovery option, the site is lacking standard things like an about us page, or contact info, and so on. Then the fact they were even willing to take on a game with multiple court cases in the works meant to stop it from being made itself just makes one wonder what they were even thinking when they entered into this arrangement, as all it does is open them up to being sued as well.
Hasn't released in korea yet. This is an international early access release which actually exempts South Korea
source: official webpage, news section;
Unfortunately, we encountered some challenges that couldn’t be overcome in time for the Early Access launch. As much as it pains us, we won’t be able to service the game in Korea because we are still awaiting a rating from the Korean Game Rating Board (GRAC). We will do everything we can to expedite this process as we have already been granted ratings from other globally recognized game rating boards, including the ESRB, PEGI, and CERO. We will officially support and service the game in Korea as soon as we can overcome this hurdle.
Even so, "awaiting rating board" is bullshit, they are waiting for the lawsuit to finish before shipping locally. Which comes with a new box of risks
Most of what you are claiming has already been addressed with the product page for the game. You are wrong on so many points here.
@@DocXGAMCby who... I'm a Korean and this legal case is been going in... I keep tracking their discord and other source and you can guess... To many different story... But one thing for sure... What choi did ain't good and both Nexon, union, police, unanimous sources and news media are in line with the story while it's 180 story inside the IM discord
@@DocXGAMC note: I just watch kira... And damn, choi is stupid enough to keep his mouth shut... Kira just explained both Nexon and IM court documents and damn IM documents and choi's public announcement doesn't align with each other... It's like a jedi shit happening, he keeps in denying and admitting, vice versa
DOUBTERS MALDING RIGHT NOW. GAME IS COMING OUT TODAY BOYS
Brother this was such a great coincidence
Completely agreed with everything you said save one issue. If Nexon was forced to stop development BECAUSE Choi left and took the team with him...... yeah idk man. That sounds like Choi didn't like the rules of the game he was paid to play and just took his ball and went home. If Nexon can legit prove that's the case, that wouldn't bode well for Dark -N- Darker..
Personally I think that Nexon would also have to prove that they intended to release and distribute the game. If Choi was the brain, Nexon doesnt really have a leg to stand on from a 'code ownership' point of view. AT BEST Nexon should be maybe paid small royalties for the thefts. Itll be interesting to see what the courts decide.
@@dipstick555yea they do idiot. do you know how companies work idiot? when you make code for a company they make you sign papers saying all your work belongs to them. you saying they don’t have a leg to stand on is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
@@dipstick555 That sounds right, but sadly that's not how it works I don't think. Even if Nexon shelved the game and didn't plan on releasing it, anything made is still subject to their ownership, even if it wasn't being used.
@@keenfire8151 according to choi they're not using any of the assets they developed with nexon , its not even the same genre. Only the setting is similar.
@@mactassio21 that's what he's supposed to say mate. There is no other correct answer. As an attorney, bases on what has been shared about the case publicly so far, Choi and team effed up. Choi has pretty much said "Yes I stole thousands of files even after I was told to stop. And yes, the game and character classes are strikingly similar to P3, and yes, I poached key staff that were working on P3 to make a game in the same genre as P3, but no, none of that is contained in our game". Putting my gamer brain and emotions aside, Choi most likely effed up.
regardless. we will see a good game come out of this. somebody is going to make a dope high fantasy extraction game. the people want it.