Brodie when I lived in Houston we went through the Oilers demanding a stadium after the city had renovated the Astrodome. Of course they relocated to Memphis and finally Nashville. Houston was fortunate to get the Texans.
What no one ever tells you about the renovations to the Astrodome in 1987 was that they were necessary. Because of the American's with Disabilities Act, the Astrodome was required to construct four cylindrical ramps outside of the stadium. That's what ate up the majority of the renovation funding. By the mid-1990's, the Astrodome was obsolete and needed to be replaced, especially during an era where suites were a big deal because of the NFL's newly implemented salary cap. Houston told Bud Adams no and he took his team to Nashville. (They were always slated for Nashville. They were supposed to play two seasons in Memphis because the only viable option in Nashville, Vanderbilt Stadium, didn't sell alcoholic beverages.) It's funny, not only did Houston agree to build a new stadium just two years later for the expansion Texans, but they also agreed to build a new baseball stadium (the Astros threatened to move to Washington D.C.) and the Rockets got a new arena built after threatening to move to Louisville. Houston constantly whines about Tennessee having all rights to the Oilers name, colors, and history, but they literally agreed to build a new stadium TWO YEARS after the Oilers left.
This is public money that should be put to public services. Why in America do the teams expect so much from money from public sources? The teams always will say we can always move but Cities should start saying no.
Brodie, I appreciate all the research that you do when doing the podcast. Also in Phoenix, the Diamondbacks want a new stadium/ dome as well. Maricopa county needs to work with the sports teams to see how they can make things work in getting new stadiums/ domes
I'd like to see a sale and a move, a fresh start if you will. I think it would be the best for the team and the league. IMHO opinion it never worked in ARIZONA.
The NHL's history in Arizona has been one colossal train wreck after another, and every time you think you've seen things hit rock bottom? Somehow, it gets worse. Sold to Jerry Colangelo because he was willing to pay the same $65 million a Minneapolis group was willing to, only for Colangelo to *immediately* run into cash flow problems thanks to simultaneously launching the Arizona Diamondbacks. A half dozen majority owners (including a period of the team playing as a ward of the league)... over $300,000,000 in reported financial losses... not one but two bankruptcies... a move to Hamilton foiled, a move to Las Vegas rumored, a move to Quebec quashed by the league behind the scenes... Phoenix, Mesa, Glendale, Scottsdale, Tempe... one of the six largest cities in the United States, and not a day where this team has even come close to breaking even. A majority owner who got kicked out of the league for domestic violence *within the past year*. And now? The public telling the NHL they'd rather keep a landfill than help subsidize a new arena. If it weren't so sad, it'd truly be comical. You could make a multi-decade long sitcom out of it.
The biggest mistake they made was moving away from downtown Phoenix, they can correct this right now if they move back downtown into the Footprint Center as the Suns have new ownership now and he might be willing to help them move back into his new building.
nhl wasn't letting any owner re-locate to minnesota. nhl was saving minny for expansion $$$$'s and foolishly chose phx. Same reason they told karmanos to stay away from minny and sent him south to nc.
@steven bauer not true. The reason the Jets didn't end up moving to Minneapolis wasn't the NHL. It was the Metropolitan Sports Commission in Minneapolis that prevented the Jets from moving to Minneapolis. The Jets needed some help with the move and issues with the Timberwolves and Target Center. The Sports Commission wouldn't lift a finger to help the Jets, just like they wouldn't help the Northstars. So the Jets headed to Arizona
@@danbratten3103 Re-read what I wrote, Dan. I can see why you misinterpreted what I wrote there, though. You're correct of course. But when the Minnesota deal fell through? Colangelo was ready, willing, and able to pay the same amount and get the team. Sadly, either way the original Jets were flying elsewhere. And sadly, in the Phoenix market, hockey simply didn't work with this team.
If I were the NHL I would go to a cold weather climate. Salt Lake City or Quebec City or Portland. I live in Arizona and am very familiar with the stadiums and areas involved. Tempe could have been great but the public doesn’t care enough to keep them. Had there been better stewardship of the franchise they would have cared more, but if that were the case they also wouldn’t be in this situation. The Utah Jazz owner seems pretty hell bent on making something happen. They’ve held multiple NHL events at the Jazz arena and he’s going to try an build a new arena for the Jazz that works for the Olympics ice sports.
I have absolutely no sympathy for the Coyotes. The Jets should've NEVER moved to AZ in the first place. The Coyotes have beyond overstayed in AZ. It's the biggest embarassment in pro sports. I have way more sympathy for Québec who are vying for a franchise, and never had a quarter of the numerous chances the Coyotes had.
@@splashnskillz37 Jets sure returned to Winnipeg, but the it's been a train wreck since in AZ. Meanwhile, there's over 18000 in attendance for les Remparts in Québec. When are they getting their team back? Why didn't Bettman spend more effort to save the Jets & Nordiques back in the 90's?
@@willp.8120 Read my original post. The Jets should've NEVER moved to AZ. The Coyotes should've moved back to Winnipeg to repair the mistake. It didn't make sense to have an eastern team move west. The Jets were forced to play 2 seasons in the east, outside their time zone. Atlanta should've moved to Québec. After losing the Flames, Knights, and Thrashers, I can't believe Atlanta is still in discussion to have another franchise.
@@mathewlee5712 Atlanta has a large population (nearly six and a half million people). Atlanta has more white people than any other non-NHL market. It has nearly 300 thousand more whites than Houston. It has about 1.2 million more whites than Salt Lake Valley. It has about 1.5 million more whites than San Diego and Kansas City, and nearly 2 million more whites than Milwaukee. None of the teams left on account of fan support. It was ownership every time. I'll give you the low-down. 1. Atlanta Flames. The Flames left because the owner was a real estate developer by the name of Tom Cousins. He owned a business named Cousins Properties. It was a major commercial real estate business in Atlanta, particularly in high rise and office construction. During the late 70s, during the Jimmy Carter Administration, interest rates were raised insanely high. This increase in interest rates was so bad it led to a recession because it impeded the flow of capital amongst businesses. This meant that Mr. Cousins had trouble securing tenants for his properties because those potential tenants were less able to qualify for loans on account of the higher interest rates. This meant fewer customers and less development. It nearly put him out of business, and it would have had he not sold the Flames. In the sale, Cousins was looking for who would give him the most money for his NHL franchise. It so happened that the individuals who bought the team took the Flames to Calgary. There were many other offers that would have kept the team in Atlanta, but because they offered less, Cousins did not sell to them. The Flames were a mid-range attendance team. During their eight seasons in Atlanta, they outsold in attendance the Pittsburgh Penguins six times, the Chicago Blackhawks six times, the Detroit Red Wings four times, and the Los Angeles Kings four times. The move had nothing to do with a lack of fans, as you can see. It had to do with the impact of an increase of interest rates on the owner's real estate business. Cousins properties is still around and has expanded their development to many other American cities. 2. Atlanta Knights. The Knights were Atlanta's International Hockey League (IHL) team between 1992-1996. During this time they had terrific attendance, boasting the highest attendance amongst the IHL, and they also won a Turner Cup in 1994. The team was well-supported by fans. It became a thing that when they sang the Star Spangled Banner, the fans would yell "Knights" when the line came up that said, "gave proof through the KNIGHTS that our flag was still there". The Knights left Atlanta in 1996 because the venue in which they played, Omni Coliseum, had to be imploded to make way for the construction of a replacement arena, Philips Arena, on the same site as the Omni, that was to be used by the city's new NHL franchise, the Thrashers, that had been recently awarded to Atlanta. The team moved to Quebec City and became the Rafaels, as this was Quebec's replacement team after the Nordiques moved to Denver. 3. Atlanta Thrashers. The Thrashers story is a bit complicated, but you need to know the story if you don't. In 1996, Atlanta was awarded a franchise to begin play in 1999. This team became known as the Thrashers, a name related to the Georgia State Bird, the Brown Thrasher. It was the second choice in a survey that the public wanted, but the owner of the team, Ted Turner, chose the name Thrashers instead. Anyhow, Ted Turner did not own the team for very long. In fact, before the team ever began play, he sold all of his sports' teams. He had already sold the Braves shortly before selling the Thrashers. With the sale of the Thrashers, he also sold his other sports franchise, the Atlanta Hawks. In the sale, Time Warner was the company that acquired Turner Sports (Thrashers, Hawks, Philips Arena). The first few years went off without much of a problem, but Time Warner made one fatal error in the early 2000s for the fate of the Atlanta Thrashers. They merged with America Online (AOL), the dial-up Internet service company and became known as AOL-Time Warner. Within a few years of the merger, cable Internet and DSL began to take customers away from dial-up. AOL-Time warner did not move quick enough into the cable and DSL market, continuing to focus their attention on dial-up service. However, by 2004, AOL dial-up service was already seeing a lot of losses of customers, that they'd continue to see up through 2011. During this time, in 2004, AOL-Time Warner was losing money and it put the company in a bad financial position. As part of restructuring, the company decided to sell its sports franchises and Philips Arena as a measure to acquire capital and secure the company (In fact, it wasn't too long after they sold the teams that AOL and Time Warner went their separate ways.) This is where the problems come in, because AOL-Time Warner bundled the teams and arena rights, again, just as Ted Turner had, but the ownership group that purchased the Thrashers did not want a hockey team. They were a group of guys from multiple cities around the country who wanted to own a basketball team. Their primary tprimary purchase target was the Atlanta Hawks. Yet, because the sale included the Atlanta Thrashers, they went ahead and purchased the team as a way of getting the Atlanta Hawks. From the get-go, most of the ownership group did not want the Thrashers. They were intent on selling the Thrashers shortly after they acquired them, but not all owners within the group wanted to do that. Some owners were set on selling the team, so in order to prevent that, two of the owners, if I remember correctly, namely one, decided to sue the other owners to prevent them from selling the team, given that a majority of the group was all that was needed to override the decision of those who wanted to keep the Thrashers. For a number of years, lawsuits were brought between different owners within the group known as Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC. These lawsuits had a significant impact on the amount of capital funds available to use on their franchises, and because they by and large preferred the Hawks, what funds they did have, most were used on the Atlanta Hawks. At the time, they signed Joe Johnson to some insane contract that was like a record contract. Joe Johnson wasn't even worth that much as a player, and he wasn't that good to demand such a contract, but they gave it to him, anyhow. During this time, the Thrashers suffered because the ownership group chose to use the bare minimum on the team. The only time when they didn't was for two seasons when Atlanta Spirit Group was going through litigation and they decided to go ahead and fund the team well and acquire some good players alongside Ilya Kovalchuk so that the value of the team would rise so that when the court cases were resolved and they were given the go-ahead to sell the team, they could demand a higher price. This is when the Thrashers had some good players that led them to their only Division championship and only playoff series. Players like Marc Savard, Ilya Kovalchuk, Marion Hossa, Keith Tkatchuk, "Slava" Kozlov, etc. However, the court cases dragged on longer than they had anticipated and as a result their funding became inadequate to maintain lots of these good players. As a result, they sold them off to other teams. Even Kovalchuk left in 2009, and from that point on Atlanta Spirit Group's only purpose, it seems, was to maintain the bare minimum funding and wait it out to sell the team. Of course, this impacted the franchise and they again became a "losing team". The court cases had dragged on for about six years and a court decision gave the go ahead to sell the Thrashers in 2011. Shortly after that, around January of 2011, it was leaked out that Atlanta Spirit Group was going to sell the team, perhaps to someone else in a different city. This had the "Oakland A's" effect, as attendance plummeted, and the lack of fans in the seats from January 2011-April 2011 had a big impact on naysayers saying, "see, nobody goes to their games", "Atlanta isn't a hockey market", "Nobody in Atlanta cares about hockey". The facts, however, speak for themselves. Atlanta was never last in attendance, and all but a few years they were mid-range in attendance. In their eleven seasons, they outsold the New York Islanders eight times, the Phoenix Coyotes eight times, the Nashville Predators six times, the Anaheim Mighty Ducks five times, the Chicago Blackhawks five times, the Washington Capitals five times, the Boston Bruins three times, and the New Jersey team five times.
According to reporting by Katie Strang of The Athletic back in August 2021, Glendale City manager Kevin Phelps informed the arena's management company, ASM Global, that the team owed $1,462,792 to the arena. “We’ve reached that point of no return,” Phelps said in an interview with The Athletic. “There’s no wavering.” So it appears as if bills were not being paid and, as a result, the City of Glendale decided not to renew the Coyotes lease. Also, I believe the Coyotes also wanted the City to pay for renovations to the arena.
As a former season ticket holder for the Coyotes, who now lives in New Jersey... it's time to pull the plug on metro Phoenix. Houston is logical, Quebec City is sentimental, Scottsdale was tried... look up the Los Arcos Mall plan. America West Area had poor sight lines way back in the day. The support was Luke warm from the beginning. There was hardly a time I went to a game that Coyotes fans were in the majority.... and that goes back to day one. There is not a huge hockey fan base in "The Valley"... sometimes something is just not meant to be, this is one of those somethings.
I am a local resident and the city has trippled the revenue from arena now that the Coyotes left. The City uses for far more days they don't have to have blackout days or to change in and out of a hockey arena. Coyotes just burned their bridges with the Coyotes they were certain that they could get a better arena in Tempe. Coyotes had a sweetheart deal in terms of stadium revenue. The Coyotes got all 80% of the naming rights all parking renvue ticket sales and pretty much everything that was sold there. They even had revenue from the deluxe suites for the concerts. The average ticket sales was 10,000 so the 5000 seat stadium really isnt that much of a step down. 20 we had voter approve stadiums for the Dbacks and and now they want money again they are just tired of paying for it.
You really think Glendale is more desirable than mostly anywhere on the east side? I know lots of people that won't set foot in Glendale, me one of them and I live in the Phoenix area.
Few things behind the scenes here in Arizona. The "NO" campaign outspent the "YES" group by 10x1 with the theme of no bailout for billionaires with much of the money coming from construction unions. The special election was for only these 3 props, it seems as though that Tempe, Coyotes and NHL were caught off guard by the percentage of defeat, nearly 10 pct. It the loss was say 1-2 pct, there could have been some elements of the proposal changed/re-worked and have the city council vote on instead of another public vote. The Tempe plan is all but dead now. There are no other real options left in the Phoenix Metro Area, they are never returning to Glendale, the Veterans Coliseum is 60+ years old in a bad area of Phoenix and the Suns arena was remodeled and ice plant completely removed and only would have 10k unobstructed seats anyway. Scottsdale only makes sense if you build on the Loop 101 corridor and that means building on Salt River Tribal lands and scuttlebutt is that they are cash strapped since the pandemic plus the Dbacks are looking to replace Chase Field and building a new ballpark in the same area.
With sports franchises getting big money subsidies for stadium construction in virtually every instsnce, except….for sports franchises located in LA. No public money was used to finance construction of SoFi stadium (Rams), Staples Center (or whatever they call it now; Lakers, Clippers, Kings), The Forum (formerly Lakers, Kings) and even Dodger Stadium was privately funded (the city contributed the land in a land swap for the former Wrigley Stadium, but the city acquired the Chavez Ravine land with a federal grant to build a low-income housing project that fell through. So, local public funds were not used). I don’t know how LA has gotten away with saying NO to public funding and still have all the pro teams it has. Clippers owner, Steve Ballmer, is currently constructing a $1.8B, 18,000 seat arena that will he the Clippers new home located adjacent to SoFi Stadium with his own funds. LA had to go quite a few years without a pro football team when the Rams moved to St. Louis, but the team eventually moved back and the Rams owner, Stan Kroenke, built the $5B SoFi Stadium with no public money. Cities have to be willing to risk losing a team by saying NO to public money to build sports venues. Otherwise teams will continue to hold cities hostage over costs to renovate or build new venues with threats to relocate if there is no public money involved.
These sports teams demand money because they can, There are now more cities that can support or, at least, want franchises. Therefore, more and more teams are holding de facto auctions for who can make the biggest offer. I wasn't a fan of corporate welfare when the Ravens (then Browns) tried to extort a new stadium from Cleveland, And, at the time, the Browns were still selling out 5 or 6 of their 8 home games in the massive dump that was Cleveland Municipal Stadium but it had no luxury boxes... I voted against the funding for Bridgestone Arena and Nissan Stadium in Nashville in the mid-90s. I showed my support for the Predators by going to games until the games got more expensive than I was willing to pay, even though I was able. Kudos to the people of Tempe for not paying the "protection money" to the Coyotes.
Arizona has a horrible history on voting for infrastructure and entertainment venues. Just think back when we lost the Super Bowl when we couldn’t even pass an MLK holiday vote. However, we do have communities that can support the new arena and development. The Salt River-Pima Indian community and the Gila River community. Salt-River is literally across the 101 freeway from Scottsdale and would create revenue for both the cities and community. There is a ton of empty land along the Scottsdale corridor of the 101. Land by the Aquarium and Talking Stick Casino/Resort would be perfect. The costs would not be near as much as developing in the proper city limits. I hope we can save our dawgs!!
I'm asking the same thing. There's other teams that share the same arena with the NBA teams like Boston, Toronto, Washington, Los Angeles, Dallas, Colorado, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Minnesota, and even Philadelphia.
How about this as a counter-proposal to the citizens of Tempe: The city pays for the $73M clean-up of the landfill and the Coyotes cover the rest, including paying property taxes just like other citizens and businesses in Tempe do? Sneaky move by the Coyotes to say "give us $240M in taxes and well pay $73M in landfill cleanup".
@@deanwille334 lol I wasn't saying about the sharks. The video was on the coyotes. If they moved to SLC I could see the sharks here. When they play the SLC team
The city lost money and received none of the revenue. The electric water and other ultities for the stadium were 700k and the coyotes paid 500k per year in rent. The city lost money it was such a one side deal. Coyotes thought that they could get a better deal in a better location.
You just miss the Brass Bonanza.😊 I’m not even a Whalers fan and I miss hearing it. So iconic. Whalers also had IMO one of the greatest NHL team logos ever.
The Coyotes have been a dumpster fire. Time to move to Houston. How is it that if Phoenix wanted to keep the team they couldn’t play in the same arena as the Suns?
Sacramento is an option for the Coyotes, Vivek already wanted to buy the Ottawa Senators so it can happen. They'd play at Golden 1 for a little while but eventually they'd need their own digs.
Rumor has it Snoop Dogg and The Weeknd are planning to be the faces of two separate ownership groups looking into the possibility of buying the Senators and keeping them in Ottawa. Ryan Reynolds (from Vancouver) was also interested in being part of a third ownership group, but apparently no longer. I can see The Weeknd being interested as he's from Toronto and is apparently a hockey fan, but Snoop? - I know he's a big hockey fan (LA Kings naturally), but Ottawa is a long way from LA.....
@@ronnieimburgia4986 Houston maybe Kansas City is also another option and they already have an NHL size arena but Atlanta no. They've had two chances already with the Flames and the Thrashers and lost both I doubt the NHL is interested in returning for a 3rd time.
@@michaelmarkowski204 right up until recently I didn't even know the Ottawa Senators could move I know they have an arena planned in Downtown don't know the status of that though.
@@joecostantino3684 It's highly unlikely they'll move. There is actually a short-list of ownership groups that want to buy the Senators and keep them in Ottawa, so it may be just a matter of picking the one that will put the most money into the surrounding area as I understand Bettman wants more development around the arena.
The Arizona Coyotes are 100% relocating. The Arizona Coyotes have lost $115.2 million USD between 2013 and 2023 (according to Forbes Business of Hockey). That is more than any other team in the NHL over that same period. The Arizona Coyotes DO NOT generate money for the league. The Coyotes can't stay in Phoenix anymore because the footprint center converted to basketball exclusively. The Arizona Coyotes were also sued by the city of Phoenix twice for interfering with zoning laws in accordance with planned flight paths. The team was sued by city of Glendale for not paying taxes. Rejected by the cities of Scottsdale AND Tempe. How many cities are left? Mesa? Muerello bought land in Reno, Nevada, but a second team in Nevada is absolutely laughable... Let's see. The Coyotes will play at Mullet Arena until 2023-2024 minimum. There is NO arena planned. There is NO city chosen. Yet. They still have to find a location. And purchase the land... And then build a brand new arena from scratch, minimum 3 years construction (assuming there are NO delays). And that's if they don't get resoundingly rejected by Mesa, like the Tempe vote was. 2027 is the realistic soonest possible date for a new arena construction. WHY spend $500 million on another arena, which may or may not work out? That would be crazy. To build this team a new arena would be insane. Yearly revenues between 2013 to 2023 have demonstrated that it will not work out. Therefore... The Arizona Coyotes are 100% relocating.
Their best option is to ask the Suns if they can move into Footprint Center and take a couple of summers to prepare the arena for hockey again like back in the mid-90s when the Coyotes first moved to Arizona. It's more possible now than the previous Suns ownership who didn't want to partner or help the Coyotes.
I agree that downtown Phoenix is their best option to keeping them in Arizona and I believe they will work out something with the Suns to renovate Footprint Center so that Ice Hockey can work there properly.
@@Itshadow306 Exactly bro, downtown Phoenix is their best option. It gives them the best chance for decent attendance as well. They have to do too much to move into other location and get voters approval. I believe they will workout something with the Suns too especially with the Suns having new ownership, they might be more open to doing business with the Coyotes than previous ownership who was not interested in helping the Yotes. I believe this option is the most realistic and will happen.
Phoenix is one of the nicest metropolitan areas in the USA, in my opinion. It, along with Atlanta, Charlotte, Washington DC, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, and the San Francisco Bay area are pretty nice in many aspects.
How much does Tempe get in property taxes for a landfill? How much sales tax revenue does a landfill produce? This is what happens when people don't actually think and just do what they're told by the people around them. Whether that's media or neighbor, stupidity is contagious.
@@DavidWilliamsaz So valuable it's a trash pile. Well played, Tempe voters. Arenas provide jobs, sales tax revenue, and parking income all without any retail or hotel space added to it. Way to show off the exact ignorance I was pointing out.
No, this is just a relationship between a sports franchise and its market that was broken from the honeymoon, has limped along for a quarter century for sake of not wanting to admit that it's a failure, and the market finally deciding it's had enough.
They should have stayed in the Phoenix Suns arena it would have made sense even though what's wasn't made for hockey and still would have been a better situation in my opinion
Exactly and realistically this is their best option too is to just move back into the Suns arena again that way they'll share the arena and be back in the downtown Phoenix area where attendance can improve.
Coyotes used to play in the arena with the Suns. That arena needs major construction in order to host a hockey team though. Would be great if they could come to an agreement to modify that arena for hockey and move in there.
that was their original home. Gary Bettman said that there was no chance that a hockey team would make it to the valley so when they were building the suns arena they made it just for basketball. So they put it downtown and it had horrible sight lines and horrible attendance. if you were on one end of the arena you could not even see the goall Then said that the horrible attendance is due to its not a dedicated arena they got one and it half ful most of the time. They burned their bridges and no one really cares about the franchise.
@@deankruse4491 This is true bro, NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman confirmed this that the Coyotes best option is moving into the Suns arena Footprint Center and using a couple of offseasons to construct it back for hockey. It might be possible because the Suns have a new owner, the previous ownership didn't want to help out the Coyotes and it's likely the biggest reason why they're in this situation right now.
Ok I got a deal for you, you all take the coyotes hockey team to Oakland and call them the A’s and we will take the baseball team and call them the Las Vegas Coyotes
Well, kicked from Glendale and Tempe rejects them... Try in Phoenix and Scottsdale before considering to leave the marker altogether... Maybe Houston, KC, or SLC... Although I want Portland and maybe some Wisconsin city too, and also QC... 🤔🤔🤔
The Coyotes stadium an builing all of the parking arenas nearly bankrupted the City They had to steal money from rainy day fund there is. They had to close libraries and transfer money that was pipe maintance just to pay for a half full arena.
A's fans and Coyotes fans are the same boat now, losing our teams. But ESPN says the Coyotes will again play at ASU next season. Seems kind of dumb - the Coyotes needed a new arena and got one in Glendale, only to find the location poor and then get kicked out.
@@MiaCollinsNeighborhood SF Chase Center? As in built for basketball and presumably with thousands of obstructed-view seats for hockey. And there is no way the Sharks let another team move within 100 miles of them. Not happening. Anybody in SF who wants to see NHL hockey can hop on CalTrain and be in San Jose in an hour.
The coyotes should've been the team sold to the group from Winnipeg. Atlanta had a viable market, just needed new owners. Arizona has never been viable
There's still a future for the Coyotes in Arizona. Mat Ishbia could help the team stay in Phoenix and play at the same arena as the Suns. Given that players like Auston Matthews have grown in the state the NHL would like to stay in Arizona. Going back to the A's situation it's important for the A's to return to being a competitive team whether that's in Oakland or in Vegas. Just like the Coyotes there is still a good possibility of the club staying.
I feel for Arizona, I really do, but to be honest, looking at all the potential cities, Atlanta has the most favorable number of potential fanbase. While Houston does have a slightly larger metropolitan area population, it has a smaller white population than metro Atlanta. I recently looked up the data for 2021 (estimates), and compared the white population between Atlanta and Houston. Neither metropolitan area has a particularly high white percentage, but Atlanta does have almost 300,000 more white people than Houston. As of 2021, metro Atlanta had 297,713 more white people than metro Houston. While this may not seem a lot, it does play a minor difference. Furthermore, when looking at each metro area, Atlanta's northside is far more white and a larger area with a higher concentration of white people, compared to Houston's Montgomery County which has some mostly white areas, but it isn't as concentrated and as spread out, except near the Woodlands, by and large. Furthermore, Atlanta's sports teams outperform in attendance every single Houston team. The Braves have higher attendance than the Astros. The Falcons have higher attendance than the Texans. The Hawks have higher attendance than the Rockets. The United have higher attendance than the Dynamo. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain that Atlanta has a considerably larger hockey fan base than the Houston area does. While I do think Houston should get a team, I don't think that they should be favored over Atlanta by any means.
I think Houston is the only option cuz the others go against the reasoning of why Bettman kept the Coyotes in Arizona for so long. The market size alone rules out SLC, KC, and SAC. ATL failed twice and QC requires realignment. I’m a Coyotes (D-Backs too) fan who became jaded by the team after the Chayka era and it stings but to be honest it’s not like I didn’t see this coming.
Eh... not really. Or at least, it wouldn't be the same story. The Phoenix market is huge, but it's also competitive for discretionary incomes: the Coyotes have to compete with the Suns, Cardinals and Diamondbacks for ticket sales, for corporate sponsorships, etc. The NBA (Oklahoma City, Sacramento) and NHL (Raleigh, Columbus) are learning that being the only dog at the bowl in a market, or at least the first dog, tends to work out better for them. If you have 100% of the market in Kansas City, it may be better than 20-25% of Phoenix when all's said and done.
I live in Phoenix and they have killed the fans I was a season ticket holder and they didn’t care if we won. An so you know their is more money in Glendale than Scottsdale. People don’t want to give millions to a guy that has billions
I’m going to be moving to Phoenix and if the Coyotes got the arena vote. Then the arena would be about a mile away from the airport. Maybe the Suns new owner, could maybe purchase the team and get them to play at the footprint center.
I think Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation (CSEC) owner Norman Murray Edwards should be talking to Alex Meruelo owner of Meruelo Group about relocating the team to Calgary, Alberta and possibly play their 81 home games at Scotiabank Saddledome in Calgary, Alberta Canada until a new arena is built in 2024 where the team would be renamed the Calgary Cowboys 🐄 or Calgary Coyotes and talk to Alberta Premier Danielle Smith and Calgary mayor Jyoti Gondek about relocating the Coyotes to Rocky Mountain province of Alberta.
@@michaelleroy9281 Atlanta for hockey is like LA for 🏈, just because one time doesn’t work , it doesn’t mean they aren’t willing to give another shot , Atlanta support and well all their profesional teams , with a decent owner , a decent deal with the city , a nice building . Atlanta is an interesting option , a few weeks ago they presented an entertaining district with an NHL arena proposal . Don’t count Atalanta out .
I don't think the Arizona situation is done until they've exhausted all avenues as Elliotte Friedman just confirmed this today. Their biggest option is moving back into downtown Phoenix and asking the Suns new owner if they are willing to move back into the Footprint Center. This is something they should've done a long-time ago, but previous Suns ownership did not want to help Coyotes at the time.
@@michaelleroy9281 Atlanta is likely getting a team with that billionaire owner and you gotta remember something too. Back when the Thrashers were down there, the NHL didn't establish their southern markets too well like they all ended up becoming in the 2010s with the Preds, Canes, Lightning, and Panthers. It's different now and Atlanta will support another team they've done it with the Atlanta United. I think it's different now and hockey will finally work in the Atlanta market this time. Atlanta is not getting the Coyotes though because of the Eastern Conference as the NHL wants to keep a western team, so Atlanta will have to go through expansion again. Houston ain't happening because of the Rockets owner. I think Utah is their biggest threat because the NHL is interested in Utah and if they get the 2030 or 2034 Winter Olympics, they'll build a new hockey arena there. Coyotes need to jump on the Suns move before the IOC makes their decision.
You'd think that citizens who really want NHL hockey in the city would be very motivated to turn out and vote in favor of at least one of the three proposals, but it appears non-hockey fans are opposed to giving the Coyotes special property tax treatment along with another $240M in taxes, and they are Tempe citizens too. Like any other election, it's up to the two parties (Coyotes and those opposed to all three plans) to spread their message in an effort to win the majority of citizens who care enough to turn out and vote.
As an avid sports fan and casual coyotes fan, i see alot of people put out opinions that are uneducated and shallow. They are people not from AZ. There are many reasons why prop 301 302 and 303 were shot down by 56% majority by tempe voters. 1st reason, old people vote, arizona is where alot of old people retire too and they didn't want to deal with extra traffic during gamedays on top of normal traffic from being geographically between phoenix, scottsdale and mesa. 2nd reason, lawsuits, Sky Harbor Airport has pending litigation due to Tempe Entertainment District construction height will impede flights to and from Phoenix. 3rd reason, fatigue, anybody whos been in AZ longer than 2 years knows about the bad history of coyotes and how city of glendale is still paying the cost for a stadium built in the early 2000s. Its time for them to go, stop using good taxpayer dollars to support millionaire owners. Let them leave, i played nhl 95 on sega, it would be nice to see hartford whalers and the quebec nordiques again. Brodie Brazil it would be better for you to interview someone who knows what they are talking about than to go lead a ramble on that leads to nowhere. Last scottsdale will not work EVER, Los Arcos was shot down by the city a long time ago. Google it. Theres a reason why that city is well liked by many people and its not sports.
Fire up the Houston or Kansas City rumors
The Hockey Guy has an excellent video about this too
I hope they stay in AZ. That logo is hella clean.
Brodie when I lived in Houston we went through the Oilers demanding a stadium after the city had renovated the Astrodome. Of course they relocated to Memphis and finally Nashville. Houston was fortunate to get the Texans.
What no one ever tells you about the renovations to the Astrodome in 1987 was that they were necessary. Because of the American's with Disabilities Act, the Astrodome was required to construct four cylindrical ramps outside of the stadium. That's what ate up the majority of the renovation funding. By the mid-1990's, the Astrodome was obsolete and needed to be replaced, especially during an era where suites were a big deal because of the NFL's newly implemented salary cap.
Houston told Bud Adams no and he took his team to Nashville. (They were always slated for Nashville. They were supposed to play two seasons in Memphis because the only viable option in Nashville, Vanderbilt Stadium, didn't sell alcoholic beverages.)
It's funny, not only did Houston agree to build a new stadium just two years later for the expansion Texans, but they also agreed to build a new baseball stadium (the Astros threatened to move to Washington D.C.) and the Rockets got a new arena built after threatening to move to Louisville.
Houston constantly whines about Tennessee having all rights to the Oilers name, colors, and history, but they literally agreed to build a new stadium TWO YEARS after the Oilers left.
@@owengambardello6485 trying to read this is giving me a very bad headache.
@@owengambardello6485 are you mentally impaired?
This is public money that should be put to public services. Why in America do the teams expect so much from money from public sources? The teams always will say we can always move but Cities should start saying no.
Brodie, I appreciate all the research that you do when doing the podcast. Also in Phoenix, the Diamondbacks want a new stadium/ dome as well. Maricopa county needs to work with the sports teams to see how they can make things work in getting new stadiums/ domes
I'd like to see a sale and a move, a fresh start if you will. I think it would be the best for the team and the league. IMHO opinion it never worked in ARIZONA.
The NHL's history in Arizona has been one colossal train wreck after another, and every time you think you've seen things hit rock bottom? Somehow, it gets worse. Sold to Jerry Colangelo because he was willing to pay the same $65 million a Minneapolis group was willing to, only for Colangelo to *immediately* run into cash flow problems thanks to simultaneously launching the Arizona Diamondbacks. A half dozen majority owners (including a period of the team playing as a ward of the league)... over $300,000,000 in reported financial losses... not one but two bankruptcies... a move to Hamilton foiled, a move to Las Vegas rumored, a move to Quebec quashed by the league behind the scenes... Phoenix, Mesa, Glendale, Scottsdale, Tempe... one of the six largest cities in the United States, and not a day where this team has even come close to breaking even. A majority owner who got kicked out of the league for domestic violence *within the past year*. And now? The public telling the NHL they'd rather keep a landfill than help subsidize a new arena. If it weren't so sad, it'd truly be comical. You could make a multi-decade long sitcom out of it.
The biggest mistake they made was moving away from downtown Phoenix, they can correct this right now if they move back downtown into the Footprint Center as the Suns have new ownership now and he might be willing to help them move back into his new building.
nhl wasn't letting any owner re-locate to minnesota. nhl was saving minny for expansion $$$$'s and foolishly chose phx. Same reason they told karmanos to stay away from minny and sent him south to nc.
Well this should squash rumors of Auston Matthews going there.
@steven bauer not true. The reason the Jets didn't end up moving to Minneapolis wasn't the NHL. It was the Metropolitan Sports Commission in Minneapolis that prevented the Jets from moving to Minneapolis. The Jets needed some help with the move and issues with the Timberwolves and Target Center. The Sports Commission wouldn't lift a finger to help the Jets, just like they wouldn't help the Northstars. So the Jets headed to Arizona
@@danbratten3103 Re-read what I wrote, Dan. I can see why you misinterpreted what I wrote there, though. You're correct of course. But when the Minnesota deal fell through? Colangelo was ready, willing, and able to pay the same amount and get the team. Sadly, either way the original Jets were flying elsewhere. And sadly, in the Phoenix market, hockey simply didn't work with this team.
If I were the NHL I would go to a cold weather climate. Salt Lake City or Quebec City or Portland. I live in Arizona and am very familiar with the stadiums and areas involved. Tempe could have been great but the public doesn’t care enough to keep them. Had there been better stewardship of the franchise they would have cared more, but if that were the case they also wouldn’t be in this situation.
The Utah Jazz owner seems pretty hell bent on making something happen. They’ve held multiple NHL events at the Jazz arena and he’s going to try an build a new arena for the Jazz that works for the Olympics ice sports.
I have absolutely no sympathy for the Coyotes. The Jets should've NEVER moved to AZ in the first place. The Coyotes have beyond overstayed in AZ. It's the biggest embarassment in pro sports. I have way more sympathy for Québec who are vying for a franchise, and never had a quarter of the numerous chances the Coyotes had.
difference is the Jets came back
@@splashnskillz37 Jets sure returned to Winnipeg, but the it's been a train wreck since in AZ. Meanwhile, there's over 18000 in attendance for les Remparts in Québec. When are they getting their team back? Why didn't Bettman spend more effort to save the Jets & Nordiques back in the 90's?
@@mathewlee5712 Jets did not return. The Atlanta Thrashers moved there and they rebranded them as the Jets.
@@willp.8120 Read my original post. The Jets should've NEVER moved to AZ. The Coyotes should've moved back to Winnipeg to repair the mistake. It didn't make sense to have an eastern team move west. The Jets were forced to play 2 seasons in the east, outside their time zone. Atlanta should've moved to Québec. After losing the Flames, Knights, and Thrashers, I can't believe Atlanta is still in discussion to have another franchise.
@@mathewlee5712
Atlanta has a large population (nearly six and a half million people).
Atlanta has more white people than any other non-NHL market. It has nearly 300 thousand more whites than Houston. It has about 1.2 million more whites than Salt Lake Valley. It has about 1.5 million more whites than San Diego and Kansas City, and nearly 2 million more whites than Milwaukee.
None of the teams left on account of fan support. It was ownership every time.
I'll give you the low-down.
1. Atlanta Flames. The Flames left because the owner was a real estate developer by the name of Tom Cousins. He owned a business named Cousins Properties. It was a major commercial real estate business in Atlanta, particularly in high rise and office construction.
During the late 70s, during the Jimmy Carter Administration, interest rates were raised insanely high. This increase in interest rates was so bad it led to a recession because it impeded the flow of capital amongst businesses. This meant that Mr. Cousins had trouble securing tenants for his properties because those potential tenants were less able to qualify for loans on account of the higher interest rates. This meant fewer customers and less development. It nearly put him out of business, and it would have had he not sold the Flames. In the sale, Cousins was looking for who would give him the most money for his NHL franchise. It so happened that the individuals who bought the team took the Flames to Calgary. There were many other offers that would have kept the team in Atlanta, but because they offered less, Cousins did not sell to them.
The Flames were a mid-range attendance team. During their eight seasons in Atlanta, they outsold in attendance the Pittsburgh Penguins six times, the Chicago Blackhawks six times, the Detroit Red Wings four times, and the Los Angeles Kings four times. The move had nothing to do with a lack of fans, as you can see. It had to do with the impact of an increase of interest rates on the owner's real estate business. Cousins properties is still around and has expanded their development to many other American cities.
2. Atlanta Knights. The Knights were Atlanta's International Hockey League (IHL) team between 1992-1996. During this time they had terrific attendance, boasting the highest attendance amongst the IHL, and they also won a Turner Cup in 1994. The team was well-supported by fans. It became a thing that when they sang the Star Spangled Banner, the fans would yell "Knights" when the line came up that said, "gave proof through the KNIGHTS that our flag was still there".
The Knights left Atlanta in 1996 because the venue in which they played, Omni Coliseum, had to be imploded to make way for the construction of a replacement arena, Philips Arena, on the same site as the Omni, that was to be used by the city's new NHL franchise, the Thrashers, that had been recently awarded to Atlanta. The team moved to Quebec City and became the Rafaels, as this was Quebec's replacement team after the Nordiques moved to Denver.
3. Atlanta Thrashers. The Thrashers story is a bit complicated, but you need to know the story if you don't.
In 1996, Atlanta was awarded a franchise to begin play in 1999. This team became known as the Thrashers, a name related to the Georgia State Bird, the Brown Thrasher. It was the second choice in a survey that the public wanted, but the owner of the team, Ted Turner, chose the name Thrashers instead.
Anyhow, Ted Turner did not own the team for very long. In fact, before the team ever began play, he sold all of his sports' teams. He had already sold the Braves shortly before selling the Thrashers. With the sale of the Thrashers, he also sold his other sports franchise, the Atlanta Hawks. In the sale, Time Warner was the company that acquired Turner Sports (Thrashers, Hawks, Philips Arena).
The first few years went off without much of a problem, but Time Warner made one fatal error in the early 2000s for the fate of the Atlanta Thrashers. They merged with America Online (AOL), the dial-up Internet service company and became known as AOL-Time Warner. Within a few years of the merger, cable Internet and DSL began to take customers away from dial-up. AOL-Time warner did not move quick enough into the cable and DSL market, continuing to focus their attention on dial-up service. However, by 2004, AOL dial-up service was already seeing a lot of losses of customers, that they'd continue to see up through 2011.
During this time, in 2004, AOL-Time Warner was losing money and it put the company in a bad financial position. As part of restructuring, the company decided to sell its sports franchises and Philips Arena as a measure to acquire capital and secure the company (In fact, it wasn't too long after they sold the teams that AOL and Time Warner went their separate ways.)
This is where the problems come in, because AOL-Time Warner bundled the teams and arena rights, again, just as Ted Turner had, but the ownership group that purchased the Thrashers did not want a hockey team. They were a group of guys from multiple cities around the country who wanted to own a basketball team. Their primary tprimary purchase target was the Atlanta Hawks. Yet, because the sale included the Atlanta Thrashers, they went ahead and purchased the team as a way of getting the Atlanta Hawks.
From the get-go, most of the ownership group did not want the Thrashers. They were intent on selling the Thrashers shortly after they acquired them, but not all owners within the group wanted to do that. Some owners were set on selling the team, so in order to prevent that, two of the owners, if I remember correctly, namely one, decided to sue the other owners to prevent them from selling the team, given that a majority of the group was all that was needed to override the decision of those who wanted to keep the Thrashers.
For a number of years, lawsuits were brought between different owners within the group known as Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC. These lawsuits had a significant impact on the amount of capital funds available to use on their franchises, and because they by and large preferred the Hawks, what funds they did have, most were used on the Atlanta Hawks. At the time, they signed Joe Johnson to some insane contract that was like a record contract. Joe Johnson wasn't even worth that much as a player, and he wasn't that good to demand such a contract, but they gave it to him, anyhow.
During this time, the Thrashers suffered because the ownership group chose to use the bare minimum on the team. The only time when they didn't was for two seasons when Atlanta Spirit Group was going through litigation and they decided to go ahead and fund the team well and acquire some good players alongside Ilya Kovalchuk so that the value of the team would rise so that when the court cases were resolved and they were given the go-ahead to sell the team, they could demand a higher price. This is when the Thrashers had some good players that led them to their only Division championship and only playoff series. Players like Marc Savard, Ilya Kovalchuk, Marion Hossa, Keith Tkatchuk, "Slava" Kozlov, etc.
However, the court cases dragged on longer than they had anticipated and as a result their funding became inadequate to maintain lots of these good players. As a result, they sold them off to other teams. Even Kovalchuk left in 2009, and from that point on Atlanta Spirit Group's only purpose, it seems, was to maintain the bare minimum funding and wait it out to sell the team. Of course, this impacted the franchise and they again became a "losing team".
The court cases had dragged on for about six years and a court decision gave the go ahead to sell the Thrashers in 2011. Shortly after that, around January of 2011, it was leaked out that Atlanta Spirit Group was going to sell the team, perhaps to someone else in a different city. This had the "Oakland A's" effect, as attendance plummeted, and the lack of fans in the seats from January 2011-April 2011 had a big impact on naysayers saying, "see, nobody goes to their games", "Atlanta isn't a hockey market", "Nobody in Atlanta cares about hockey".
The facts, however, speak for themselves. Atlanta was never last in attendance, and all but a few years they were mid-range in attendance. In their eleven seasons, they outsold the New York Islanders eight times, the Phoenix Coyotes eight times, the Nashville Predators six times, the Anaheim Mighty Ducks five times, the Chicago Blackhawks five times, the Washington Capitals five times, the Boston Bruins three times, and the New Jersey team five times.
According to reporting by Katie Strang of The Athletic back in August 2021, Glendale City manager Kevin Phelps informed the arena's management company, ASM Global, that the team owed $1,462,792 to the arena. “We’ve reached that point of no return,” Phelps said in an interview with The Athletic. “There’s no wavering.” So it appears as if bills were not being paid and, as a result, the City of Glendale decided not to renew the Coyotes lease. Also, I believe the Coyotes also wanted the City to pay for renovations to the arena.
As a former season ticket holder for the Coyotes, who now lives in New Jersey... it's time to pull the plug on metro Phoenix. Houston is logical, Quebec City is sentimental, Scottsdale was tried... look up the Los Arcos Mall plan. America West Area had poor sight lines way back in the day. The support was Luke warm from the beginning. There was hardly a time I went to a game that Coyotes fans were in the majority.... and that goes back to day one. There is not a huge hockey fan base in "The Valley"... sometimes something is just not meant to be, this is one of those somethings.
Nah. Not sentimental. Not “sentimental.” /
I am a local resident and the city has trippled the revenue from arena now that the Coyotes left. The City uses for far more days they don't have to have blackout days or to change in and out of a hockey arena. Coyotes just burned their bridges with the Coyotes they were certain that they could get a better arena in Tempe. Coyotes had a sweetheart deal in terms of stadium revenue. The Coyotes got all 80% of the naming rights all parking renvue ticket sales and pretty much everything that was sold there. They even had revenue from the deluxe suites for the concerts. The average ticket sales was 10,000 so the 5000 seat stadium really isnt that much of a step down. 20 we had voter approve stadiums for the Dbacks and and now they want money again they are just tired of paying for it.
You really think Glendale is more desirable than mostly anywhere on the east side? I know lots of people that won't set foot in Glendale, me one of them and I live in the Phoenix area.
I like it when the people say "F U" to an owner like they did in Tempe, as opposed to what the A's and Raiders did to Oakland.
?
“Let’s keep the dump..!”
@@TylrVncnt Davis and Fisher said "F U" to the people of Oakland. But in this case, it was the voters who said "F U" to the owner. I like that.
Few things behind the scenes here in Arizona. The "NO" campaign outspent the "YES" group by 10x1 with the theme of no bailout for billionaires with much of the money coming from construction unions. The special election was for only these 3 props, it seems as though that Tempe, Coyotes and NHL were caught off guard by the percentage of defeat, nearly 10 pct. It the loss was say 1-2 pct, there could have been some elements of the proposal changed/re-worked and have the city council vote on instead of another public vote. The Tempe plan is all but dead now.
There are no other real options left in the Phoenix Metro Area, they are never returning to Glendale, the Veterans Coliseum is 60+ years old in a bad area of Phoenix and the Suns arena was remodeled and ice plant completely removed and only would have 10k unobstructed seats anyway.
Scottsdale only makes sense if you build on the Loop 101 corridor and that means building on Salt River Tribal lands and scuttlebutt is that they are cash strapped since the pandemic plus the Dbacks are looking to replace Chase Field and building a new ballpark in the same area.
With sports franchises getting big money subsidies for stadium construction in virtually every instsnce, except….for sports franchises located in LA. No public money was used to finance construction of SoFi stadium (Rams), Staples Center (or whatever they call it now; Lakers, Clippers, Kings), The Forum (formerly Lakers, Kings) and even Dodger Stadium was privately funded (the city contributed the land in a land swap for the former Wrigley Stadium, but the city acquired the Chavez Ravine land with a federal grant to build a low-income housing project that fell through. So, local public funds were not used). I don’t know how LA has gotten away with saying NO to public funding and still have all the pro teams it has. Clippers owner, Steve Ballmer, is currently constructing a $1.8B, 18,000 seat arena that will he the Clippers new home located adjacent to SoFi Stadium with his own funds. LA had to go quite a few years without a pro football team when the Rams moved to St. Louis, but the team eventually moved back and the Rams owner, Stan Kroenke, built the $5B SoFi Stadium with no public money.
Cities have to be willing to risk losing a team by saying NO to public money to build sports venues. Otherwise teams will continue to hold cities hostage over costs to renovate or build new venues with threats to relocate if there is no public money involved.
Always love your content. Wish you worked for NESN. Could double-dip there too with Red Sox and Bruins.
Some regions don’t do certain sports well. It’s sad as the NHL would not be the same without the desert dogs.
Nah. Not “Some regions don’t do certain sports well.” A lot of regions don’t do certain sports well. /
These sports teams demand money because they can, There are now more cities that can support or, at least, want franchises. Therefore, more and more teams are holding de facto auctions for who can make the biggest offer.
I wasn't a fan of corporate welfare when the Ravens (then Browns) tried to extort a new stadium from Cleveland, And, at the time, the Browns were still selling out 5 or 6 of their 8 home games in the massive dump that was Cleveland Municipal Stadium but it had no luxury boxes...
I voted against the funding for Bridgestone Arena and Nissan Stadium in Nashville in the mid-90s. I showed my support for the Predators by going to games until the games got more expensive than I was willing to pay, even though I was able.
Kudos to the people of Tempe for not paying the "protection money" to the Coyotes.
Quebec City has an arena ready for them and an avid fan base I think this is a prime opportunity for a swift move.
Quebec failed twice to keep an NHL team. Won't happen. Market too small.
They will go to Houston if they leave. They are already in the same division as Dallas.
@@MrTAFSIYNOT wrong Quebec lost only one team, and it wasn’t because of low attendance. It was because of the Canadian dollar.
This should happen but won't. The league wants the team in a big market. Houston or Atlanta would be my guess
Quebec had their chance, and they failed
Arizona has a horrible history on voting for infrastructure and entertainment venues. Just think back when we lost the Super Bowl when we couldn’t even pass an MLK holiday vote. However, we do have communities that can support the new arena and development. The Salt River-Pima Indian community and the Gila River community. Salt-River is literally across the 101 freeway from Scottsdale and would create revenue for both the cities and community. There is a ton of empty land along the Scottsdale corridor of the 101. Land by the Aquarium and Talking Stick Casino/Resort would be perfect. The costs would not be near as much as developing in the proper city limits. I hope we can save our dawgs!!
Why couldn't they play in Phoenix where the Suns play?
I'm asking the same thing. There's other teams that share the same arena with the NBA teams like Boston, Toronto, Washington, Los Angeles, Dallas, Colorado, Detroit, New York, Chicago, Minnesota, and even Philadelphia.
How about this as a counter-proposal to the citizens of Tempe: The city pays for the $73M clean-up of the landfill and the Coyotes cover the rest, including paying property taxes just like other citizens and businesses in Tempe do? Sneaky move by the Coyotes to say "give us $240M in taxes and well pay $73M in landfill cleanup".
Arizona team is going to Houston, Atlanta, Quebec, Utah, next season 😊
Why not move to Utah? as a bay area transplant i would love to see nhl here , love to see my Sharks here.
Sharks aren’t going anywhere
@@deanwille334 lol I wasn't saying about the sharks. The video was on the coyotes. If they moved to SLC I could see the sharks here. When they play the SLC team
@@BonicBebop82 I know I was just kidding! I live in San Jose and love the Sharks
The city lost money and received none of the revenue. The electric water and other ultities for the stadium were 700k and the coyotes paid 500k per year in rent. The city lost money it was such a one side deal. Coyotes thought that they could get a better deal in a better location.
Maybe they can move to Hartford.
You just miss the Brass Bonanza.😊 I’m not even a Whalers fan and I miss hearing it. So iconic. Whalers also had IMO one of the greatest NHL team logos ever.
The Coyotes have been a dumpster fire. Time to move to Houston. How is it that if Phoenix wanted to keep the team they couldn’t play in the same arena as the Suns?
HOUSTON. COYOTES
Why should taxpayers subsidize a privately-owned sports team?
The San Jose Sharks will probably be looking for some free money soon. They’re all pain in the ass.
Sacramento is an option for the Coyotes, Vivek already wanted to buy the Ottawa Senators so it can happen. They'd play at Golden 1 for a little while but eventually they'd need their own digs.
Rumor has it Snoop Dogg and The Weeknd are planning to be the faces of two separate ownership groups looking into the possibility of buying the Senators and keeping them in Ottawa. Ryan Reynolds (from Vancouver) was also interested in being part of a third ownership group, but apparently no longer. I can see The Weeknd being interested as he's from Toronto and is apparently a hockey fan, but Snoop? - I know he's a big hockey fan (LA Kings naturally), but Ottawa is a long way from LA.....
Not going to happen. Houston or Atlanta
@@ronnieimburgia4986 Houston maybe Kansas City is also another option and they already have an NHL size arena but Atlanta no. They've had two chances already with the Flames and the Thrashers and lost both I doubt the NHL is interested in returning for a 3rd time.
@@michaelmarkowski204 right up until recently I didn't even know the Ottawa Senators could move I know they have an arena planned in Downtown don't know the status of that though.
@@joecostantino3684 It's highly unlikely they'll move. There is actually a short-list of ownership groups that want to buy the Senators and keep them in Ottawa, so it may be just a matter of picking the one that will put the most money into the surrounding area as I understand Bettman wants more development around the arena.
The Arizona Coyotes are 100% relocating.
The Arizona Coyotes have lost $115.2 million USD between 2013 and 2023 (according to Forbes Business of Hockey). That is more than any other team in the NHL over that same period.
The Arizona Coyotes DO NOT generate money for the league.
The Coyotes can't stay in Phoenix anymore because the footprint center converted to basketball exclusively.
The Arizona Coyotes were also sued by the city of Phoenix twice for interfering with zoning laws in accordance with planned flight paths.
The team was sued by city of Glendale for not paying taxes.
Rejected by the cities of Scottsdale AND Tempe.
How many cities are left? Mesa? Muerello bought land in Reno, Nevada, but a second team in Nevada is absolutely laughable...
Let's see. The Coyotes will play at Mullet Arena until 2023-2024 minimum.
There is NO arena planned. There is NO city chosen. Yet.
They still have to find a location. And purchase the land...
And then build a brand new arena from scratch, minimum 3 years construction (assuming there are NO delays). And that's if they don't get resoundingly rejected by Mesa, like the Tempe vote was.
2027 is the realistic soonest possible date for a new arena construction.
WHY spend $500 million on another arena, which may or may not work out? That would be crazy. To build this team a new arena would be insane. Yearly revenues between 2013 to 2023 have demonstrated that it will not work out.
Therefore...
The Arizona Coyotes are 100% relocating.
Way-Too-Early Prediction: Coyotes move to either Houston or Salt Lake City.
Sports teams are a pain in the ass. They always want free money as in tax money
houston aeros come on down!
Their best option is to ask the Suns if they can move into Footprint Center and take a couple of summers to prepare the arena for hockey again like back in the mid-90s when the Coyotes first moved to Arizona. It's more possible now than the previous Suns ownership who didn't want to partner or help the Coyotes.
I agree that downtown Phoenix is their best option to keeping them in Arizona and I believe they will work out something with the Suns to renovate Footprint Center so that Ice Hockey can work there properly.
@@Itshadow306 Exactly bro, downtown Phoenix is their best option. It gives them the best chance for decent attendance as well. They have to do too much to move into other location and get voters approval. I believe they will workout something with the Suns too especially with the Suns having new ownership, they might be more open to doing business with the Coyotes than previous ownership who was not interested in helping the Yotes. I believe this option is the most realistic and will happen.
It's nice down there. In Tempe.
Phoenix is one of the nicest metropolitan areas in the USA, in my opinion. It, along with Atlanta, Charlotte, Washington DC, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, and the San Francisco Bay area are pretty nice in many aspects.
How much does Tempe get in property taxes for a landfill? How much sales tax revenue does a landfill produce? This is what happens when people don't actually think and just do what they're told by the people around them. Whether that's media or neighbor, stupidity is contagious.
that land is extremely valueable and they won't have to give it away for that land to be developed. In something valuable.
@@DavidWilliamsaz So valuable it's a trash pile. Well played, Tempe voters. Arenas provide jobs, sales tax revenue, and parking income all without any retail or hotel space added to it.
Way to show off the exact ignorance I was pointing out.
No, this is just a relationship between a sports franchise and its market that was broken from the honeymoon, has limped along for a quarter century for sake of not wanting to admit that it's a failure, and the market finally deciding it's had enough.
I wish you worked for the Wfan in New York
Sacramento was brought up. Let’s bring them to the capital and let’s have another Northern California rivalry going on.
Portland, Salt Lake City or Sacramento would be a better landing spot for this struggling franchise. Houston too.
They should have stayed in the Phoenix Suns arena it would have made sense even though what's wasn't made for hockey and still would have been a better situation in my opinion
Ask the Suns if you can move in with them.
Exactly and realistically this is their best option too is to just move back into the Suns arena again that way they'll share the arena and be back in the downtown Phoenix area where attendance can improve.
Coyotes used to play in the arena with the Suns. That arena needs major construction in order to host a hockey team though. Would be great if they could come to an agreement to modify that arena for hockey and move in there.
that was their original home. Gary Bettman said that there was no chance that a hockey team would make it to the valley so when they were building the suns arena they made it just for basketball. So they put it downtown and it had horrible sight lines and horrible attendance. if you were on one end of the arena you could not even see the goall Then said that the horrible attendance is due to its not a dedicated arena they got one and it half ful most of the time. They burned their bridges and no one really cares about the franchise.
@@deankruse4491 This is true bro, NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman confirmed this that the Coyotes best option is moving into the Suns arena Footprint Center and using a couple of offseasons to construct it back for hockey. It might be possible because the Suns have a new owner, the previous ownership didn't want to help out the Coyotes and it's likely the biggest reason why they're in this situation right now.
Ok I got a deal for you, you all take the coyotes hockey team to Oakland and call them the A’s and we will take the baseball team and call them the Las Vegas Coyotes
i voted no on all 3.. i would wheather have a landfill then trash hockey..
Well, kicked from Glendale and Tempe rejects them... Try in Phoenix and Scottsdale before considering to leave the marker altogether... Maybe Houston, KC, or SLC... Although I want Portland and maybe some Wisconsin city too, and also QC...
🤔🤔🤔
The Coyotes stadium an builing all of the parking arenas nearly bankrupted the City They had to steal money from rainy day fund there is. They had to close libraries and transfer money that was pipe maintance just to pay for a half full arena.
A's fans and Coyotes fans are the same boat now, losing our teams. But ESPN says the Coyotes will again play at ASU next season. Seems kind of dumb - the Coyotes needed a new arena and got one in Glendale, only to find the location poor and then get kicked out.
Thanks Gumby. But I hope the Coyotes can go to Chase Center
@@MiaCollinsNeighborhood SF Chase Center? As in built for basketball and presumably with thousands of obstructed-view seats for hockey. And there is no way the Sharks let another team move within 100 miles of them. Not happening. Anybody in SF who wants to see NHL hockey can hop on CalTrain and be in San Jose in an hour.
I assume he’s referring to Chase Field, where the D-backs play. Obviously that would also be a poor solution.
@@letsgowalk Wrong pronoun!
The coyotes should've been the team sold to the group from Winnipeg. Atlanta had a viable market, just needed new owners. Arizona has never been viable
I am a Coyotes fan and I say AZ does not deserve this team. Go Coyotes, leave, go where you are appreciated!
My vote would be SLC for the coyotes new place
Oakland Coyotes to play @ Oakland arena.
There's still a future for the Coyotes in Arizona. Mat Ishbia could help the team stay in Phoenix and play at the same arena as the Suns. Given that players like Auston Matthews have grown in the state the NHL would like to stay in Arizona. Going back to the A's situation it's important for the A's to return to being a competitive team whether that's in Oakland or in Vegas. Just like the Coyotes there is still a good possibility of the club staying.
They left the Suns arena due to poor sightlines. Why would they share with the worst team in NHL history?
Im a Coyotes fan who has never lined in Arizona. Im an Angels podcaster who enjoys your content. I appreciate you doing your research
While I know it’s very unlikely I hope the Coyotes move to San Francisco, Oakland, or Sacramento
I feel for Arizona, I really do, but to be honest, looking at all the potential cities, Atlanta has the most favorable number of potential fanbase. While Houston does have a slightly larger metropolitan area population, it has a smaller white population than metro Atlanta.
I recently looked up the data for 2021 (estimates), and compared the white population between Atlanta and Houston.
Neither metropolitan area has a particularly high white percentage, but Atlanta does have almost 300,000 more white people than Houston.
As of 2021, metro Atlanta had 297,713 more white people than metro Houston. While this may not seem a lot, it does play a minor difference. Furthermore, when looking at each metro area, Atlanta's northside is far more white and a larger area with a higher concentration of white people, compared to Houston's Montgomery County which has some mostly white areas, but it isn't as concentrated and as spread out, except near the Woodlands, by and large.
Furthermore, Atlanta's sports teams outperform in attendance every single Houston team. The Braves have higher attendance than the Astros. The Falcons have higher attendance than the Texans. The Hawks have higher attendance than the Rockets. The United have higher attendance than the Dynamo.
Furthermore, I'm fairly certain that Atlanta has a considerably larger hockey fan base than the Houston area does.
While I do think Houston should get a team, I don't think that they should be favored over Atlanta by any means.
i hope they go to houston
Coyotes should move to San Diego we have a Arena already and were building a new 16,500 seat Arena
That’s my vote
I think there's an announcement scheduled for tomorrow: San Diego gets an expansion MLS franchise, bringing the MLS up to 30 teams.
Off to Boise - not Quebec
Bring them to Oakland and create and great hockey market in the Bay Area like it is in SoCal.
The Houston Coyotes...
...what?
@@29Texan he literally comments the same thing on all replies 😂
Half the Coyotes payroll is bad contracts.
Why Can`t The Coyotes And Suns Share The Same Arena ?
The site lines are not good for hockey is what I've heard
They did. The hockey team was the "second tenant" and couldn't generate enough revenue to make it work.
$240 was bonds
Move them to Oakland, they can play in the Oracle Arena. Bring back the Oakland Seals.
Or what about Chase Center and they can be the San Francisco Seals!
@@MiaCollinsNeighborhood no I said Oracle Arena and Oakland Seals.
@@MiaCollinsNeighborhood I heard Chase Center is designed for basketball only so I don't think it's designed for hockey...
🤔🤔🤔
Sharks would likely be against it.
Oracle & Chase are not built for hockey
What about Mesa?? Is there any opportunity there??
nope, mesa just financed the cubs spring training facility for $75 million, i doubt the voters have a stomach for $740 million in tax breaks.
Oakland A’s is the best team in Bay Area!
Tempe was going to pay for the cleanup up to 93 million. NOT the Coyotes.
Fake News
I think Houston is the only option cuz the others go against the reasoning of why Bettman kept the Coyotes in Arizona for so long.
The market size alone rules out SLC, KC, and SAC. ATL failed twice and QC requires realignment.
I’m a Coyotes (D-Backs too) fan who became jaded by the team after the Chayka era and it stings but to be honest it’s not like I didn’t see this coming.
Eh... not really. Or at least, it wouldn't be the same story. The Phoenix market is huge, but it's also competitive for discretionary incomes: the Coyotes have to compete with the Suns, Cardinals and Diamondbacks for ticket sales, for corporate sponsorships, etc. The NBA (Oklahoma City, Sacramento) and NHL (Raleigh, Columbus) are learning that being the only dog at the bowl in a market, or at least the first dog, tends to work out better for them. If you have 100% of the market in Kansas City, it may be better than 20-25% of Phoenix when all's said and done.
Atlanta didn't fail. Ownership did. Atlanta is far bigger than any of those other cities, except Houston.
Houston would also give the Dallas Stars franchise what it really doesn't have: a true natural rival.
I live in Phoenix and they have killed the fans I was a season ticket holder and they didn’t care if we won. An so you know their is more money in Glendale than Scottsdale. People don’t want to give millions to a guy that has billions
Probably would have been worthwhile to go into greater detail as to why the Glendale situation fell apart and the whole bankruptcy mess in 2009.
How about Phoenix central where the Phoenix suns play
I’m going to be moving to Phoenix and if the Coyotes got the arena vote. Then the arena would be about a mile away from the airport. Maybe the Suns new owner, could maybe purchase the team and get them to play at the footprint center.
Oakland will buy Coyote
Bonus points to Bruiser Brodie for pronouncing "Quebec" properly. 🙂
I think Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation (CSEC) owner Norman Murray Edwards should be talking to Alex Meruelo owner of Meruelo Group about relocating the team to Calgary, Alberta and possibly play their 81 home games at Scotiabank Saddledome in Calgary, Alberta Canada until a new arena is built in 2024 where the team would be renamed the Calgary Cowboys 🐄 or Calgary Coyotes and talk to Alberta Premier Danielle Smith and Calgary mayor Jyoti Gondek about relocating the Coyotes to Rocky Mountain province of Alberta.
Why is he so happy about this
Misinformation killed the deal .
It seems NHL is done in Arizona , my bet for where will the move is on either Kansas City or Atalanta .
Forget Atlanta when they lost a team only in 2011 , the return of the Houston Aeros, Coyotes won't be the name in Houston
@@michaelleroy9281 Atlanta for hockey is like LA for 🏈, just because one time doesn’t work , it doesn’t mean they aren’t willing to give another shot , Atlanta support and well all their profesional teams , with a decent owner , a decent deal with the city , a nice building . Atlanta is an interesting option , a few weeks ago they presented an entertaining district with an NHL arena proposal . Don’t count Atalanta out .
@@michaelleroy9281 also Houston isn’t quite interested in profesional hockey anymore , at least not the Rockets owner .
I don't think the Arizona situation is done until they've exhausted all avenues as Elliotte Friedman just confirmed this today. Their biggest option is moving back into downtown Phoenix and asking the Suns new owner if they are willing to move back into the Footprint Center. This is something they should've done a long-time ago, but previous Suns ownership did not want to help Coyotes at the time.
@@michaelleroy9281 Atlanta is likely getting a team with that billionaire owner and you gotta remember something too. Back when the Thrashers were down there, the NHL didn't establish their southern markets too well like they all ended up becoming in the 2010s with the Preds, Canes, Lightning, and Panthers. It's different now and Atlanta will support another team they've done it with the Atlanta United. I think it's different now and hockey will finally work in the Atlanta market this time. Atlanta is not getting the Coyotes though because of the Eastern Conference as the NHL wants to keep a western team, so Atlanta will have to go through expansion again. Houston ain't happening because of the Rockets owner. I think Utah is their biggest threat because the NHL is interested in Utah and if they get the 2030 or 2034 Winter Olympics, they'll build a new hockey arena there. Coyotes need to jump on the Suns move before the IOC makes their decision.
You'd think that citizens who really want NHL hockey in the city would be very motivated to turn out and vote in favor of at least one of the three proposals, but it appears non-hockey fans are opposed to giving the Coyotes special property tax treatment along with another $240M in taxes, and they are Tempe citizens too. Like any other election, it's up to the two parties (Coyotes and those opposed to all three plans) to spread their message in an effort to win the majority of citizens who care enough to turn out and vote.
Atlanta Thrashers REBORN
As an avid sports fan and casual coyotes fan, i see alot of people put out opinions that are uneducated and shallow. They are people not from AZ. There are many reasons why prop 301 302 and 303 were shot down by 56% majority by tempe voters. 1st reason, old people vote, arizona is where alot of old people retire too and they didn't want to deal with extra traffic during gamedays on top of normal traffic from being geographically between phoenix, scottsdale and mesa. 2nd reason, lawsuits, Sky Harbor Airport has pending litigation due to Tempe Entertainment District construction height will impede flights to and from Phoenix. 3rd reason, fatigue, anybody whos been in AZ longer than 2 years knows about the bad history of coyotes and how city of glendale is still paying the cost for a stadium built in the early 2000s. Its time for them to go, stop using good taxpayer dollars to support millionaire owners. Let them leave, i played nhl 95 on sega, it would be nice to see hartford whalers and the quebec nordiques again. Brodie Brazil it would be better for you to interview someone who knows what they are talking about than to go lead a ramble on that leads to nowhere. Last scottsdale will not work EVER, Los Arcos was shot down by the city a long time ago. Google it. Theres a reason why that city is well liked by many people and its not sports.
@@owengambardello6485 tool
NHL to Portland
If the Coyotes move, it would break their fan's heart.
They tried Scottsdale years ago. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Arcos_Mall That property is now part of ASU.
I saw that. If that had worked 20 years ago, we wouldn't be having this situation today.