You have no idea how this has just answer prayers in my life…I ALWAYS knew the truth but trying to have these conversation with white ppl and black ppl over decades has drained me spiritually, mentally and emotionally! I just bought the book and will continue to support you both 💯🙌🏾💗🙏🏾
Jesus believed in justice and love of all humankind. How do you love humankind if any of God’s creations are subjected to hate and treated as second class citizens by so called Christians? This is an excellent conversation!
That love means you have to follow GOD'S laws. One also cannot claim to be a so called Christian and commit vast crimes. One has to follow Israelite law. God says to treat the foreigner as yourself. However if one does not follow GOD'S ways the Israelites were instructed to kill them! To get the blessings of the covenant one must follow the law! Strangers must accord to Israelite ways in the Old Testament.
I am sending this to family members rite na! Good word I've been trying to undo some of the damage of whitewashing and failing. Thank you for writing your book.
Many greek gods had to spend 3 days in hades. These stories of greek gods spending 3 days in hades were written in the BCE time... How do you remove the whitewashing of jesus soending 3 nights in hell like many of the European gods did prior? Many greek gods had babies with human women. Often times these babies were hidden from evil kings and later these children of gods saved all their people. How do we remove the whitewashing from jesus having unmarried parents, where one parent is a god and the other parent is a human? Zeus got mad and killed mankind with a flood.. How do we remove the whitewashing of Noah. But the Zeus flood myth doesn't have Afrigan babies being born into slavery like the Noah flood does..
Good talk. I'll be adding this to my reading list and see what nuggets lie within that I've not discovered on my own. Very touchy subject for those in Christ and for those not in Christ. It's a difficult mental and emotional decision asked of each person to put your identity in Him over and above your already established sense of self identity when that identity is rooted in how you define yourself and in many cases lacks complete historical(or even social/sociological) comprehension. We root ourselves in that which temporal while He is saying to root yourself in Him is to root yourself in what is eternal. I look forward to hear more from him.
It is an incontrovertible fact that the Abolitiin movement started in the Basement of Park Street Church in Boston , Massachusetts. Those Christian risked falling out if favor with their white neighbors to stand up for what was right. It was not just quakers in Philadelphia as is commonly believed. Frederich Douglasville grandson attended the abolitionist Wheaton College in Illinois because they were accepting fir several generations of free slaves to recieve College education. This is a college that is not perfect but they have had some James Cone devotees speak on campus. Are they, "white washing" Christiamity when they invite Cornell West to speak on campus?
Very good information very good I'm glad that you're opening people's eyes at the lies that we've been told for so long and not make Christian the enemy, no matter the color. May not agree with everything but this is good information here
I am writing at this time. Not the time of those horrible lynching, Those Lynchimgs did not happen in Maine and Massachusetts. They happened in Virginia, and SC and North Carolina. They should have been punished but wete not. And there is no excuse for that.
This is awesome. I love it. I like how he brings out the facts and affirms how God has moved through all of humanity. I like how he also rejects attempts to suppress the value of Black people. I also love how he uncovers the truth about African history and the role of all peoples in sustaining and progressing the faith.
Facts? God? Bible god is a concept accepted through faith. There is nothing factual about bible god. Before you say there are facts about bible, you must first offer evidence of bible god existence. And we already know that cant be done... African history? You mean the history of conquered Africans being raised and schooled in Eueropean controlled institutions and territories in Africa. Africans ruled Egypt for thousands of years and no biblical literaure was produced in Egypt during that time. Bible literaure and biblical concepts did not come out of Egypt until the Greeks AkA Euroepans came to Egypt. Now those are facts Bruh.
@@nickjones1314 Then perhaps you should read the book, then go look at actual African history and see what our African ancestors themselves were saying about Christianity over one thousand years before the trans Atlantic slave trade. Look at the kingdom of Axsum that became Christian because they were convinced it was true. It was one of the most powerful empires in the world at that time. I have no problem with you making objections, but your claims need to be grounded in facts. Evidence for God is the universe. I think it’s clear that the universe exists. Your claim that the Bible only occurred when Greeks came to Egypt is also demonstrably false. What is your evidence for this claim? Thanks. I look forward to your reply.
@@gfujigo Yes indeed Ethiopians on the east side knew about christianity way before our ancestors who were enslaved on the west side. But whatever jesus allegedly did, it wasnt big enough for west/central africans to know about it. It took 1400 years and some slave masters for jesus to get to us. Aint nothing divine about learning about a god from some slave masters. When i look at Axsum , i see that St . Frummentius introduced the Brothas to christianity.. Why every time Africans find christgianity there is Caucasian giving us this religion. Why is that? And please understand that we are not Ethiopians. Just because the Ethiopian found jesus through a peaceful Caucasian dont mean that the enslaved from west and central africa did not find jesus through European slave masters. We all know about the Dum Diversas and how our ancestors were forced into being baptized and forced into being converted to christianity. Let us not pretend. Aksum Christianity Aksum embraced the Orthodox tradition of Christianity in the 4th century (c. 340-356 C.E.) under the rule of King Ezana. The king had been converted by Frumentius, a former Syrian captive who was made Bishop of Aksum. ... This invasion saw the inclusion of the region into the Aksumite kingdom for the next seven decades. Facts? You are a christian. You dont deal with facts. You deal with faith. You not a knower.. You are a believer. How is the universe evidence of bible god? Let us talk facts as you mentioned earlier.. What would you say to the Arab when he says that the universe is proof of Alah? That sounds silly. Tell me this.. If there is Island full of people who have NEVER seen Europeans. Please tell me how they would attribute the creation of the sun to god of the bible? And answer me this too - When you look at the sun, what about the sun tells you that it was created by the christian god. What part of the sun or what about the sun says it was created your god?
@@nickjones1314 It’s simply untrue that Western Africans did not know about Christianity. Mansa Musa even talks about Christians in West Africa - again, before enslavement. You have to show and demonstrate that the predominant way of us knowing Christianity was through slavery. That narrative is just that. - narrative with no facts. Yes, there was a version of Christianity forced upon some of our ancestors. However to take that and say that’s how the majority of Africans knew about Christianity is just plain false. Also, how is it that Syrians are now White at that time. Mark, a North African disciple of Jesus, played a huge role in the launch of the Coptic church - which was not a European church or a child of European Christianity. The Nubian church started around 200 CE. Then you claim I deal with faith and not facts. Identify a specific quote of mine where I asserted faith in response to your assertions. It seems you are making assumptions and not dealing with the facts I adduce. Have you seen a response of mine akin to “well I just believe” or “well I just have faith”? Even if you disagree you must admit I am responding to your questions with facts and I have not invoked faith and belief to respond to your questions. So, let’s just continue to have a great discussion without making baseless accusations. I enjoy these types of discussions and in fact appreciate your questions. I said the universe is evidence for God. I did not say the universe is evidence of Christianity. Evidence for Christianity can be found in the historical facts regarding the resurrection. The universe is evidence for God because being contingent, the universe ultimately needs a non-contingent source. This source of reality has to be able to, for example, determine the laws of the universe, create those laws and enforce those laws. Notice the absence of any faith claims. We infer causes from effects all the time. That’s how rationality works. We look at the moon and it’s make up and infer that it was formed through a collision with something early in the solar system. We can look at the universe and infer what is necessary to bring about what we observe. When you catalog what must be necessary to bring about the universe and any contingent reality, God is by far the best explanation. By God we mean the ultimate reality, the foundation of all being, and the source of all existence that is also non-contingent. We are not talking about some cosmic mechanic or Zeus type of figure. We know reality has a coherent foundation because we observe reality to be coherent and non-chaotic in its operations. If a Muslim tells me that the universe is proof of Allah I would respond with the facts of the resurrection that confirm the claims about Jesus. Now, on some level, all theistic faiths agree about God. So, in fact, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and some strands of Hinduism and Buddhism all agree on the core metaphysics of who and what God is. As one Muslim theist said, you can’t look for God in the realm of beings because he is the being of all realms. So there are vast areas of agreement on some points about God. You seem to treat Europeans as if they are god like and just controlling everything and everybody and created Christianity themselves? Why? Why think that monotheism is a European thing? Europeans are not gods. Have you heard of Akhenaton? Plus, why think that the place an idea originates indicates it’s truth. Since calculus and classical physics originated in Europe does that mean it’s bad and we should avoid them? What matters is whether the idea is true or not. Africans were the first to isolate and use antibiotics. Does that mean that other folks should say using antibiotics is wrong? The sun tells me a lot. The sun is contingent so I know that it did not create itself. The sun rests on the laws of physics. So I can learn a lot about solar system formation and other stars from looking at the sun. The sun, like the universe, is evidence of stable understandable order. This tells me whatever is responsible for the universe is capable of determining and creating stable understandable order. It doesn’t matter who attributes what to what. The only thing that matters is whether we have evidence that a claim is true or not. That’s all that matters. Thanks for your comments and I look forward to your reply. All the best to you. 👍🏿
@@gfujigo Mansa Musa talking about christian is so minute bro.. Cmon now.. Im sure its some crips in Delaware but we both know aint no real crippin goin on in Delaware. Christianity is an institution. Institutions have buildings and literature. In this case the building would be the church and the literature would be the bible. So when was the first christian church built in west africa and by who... And what bible did they use. Is there a christian church in Mali and when was it built. The first christian church that i know of in west Africa was built in Ghana right next to the slave dungeon where the christians kept our ancestors.. You dont date an institution on something that someone spoke about... Show me the church and the bible. You talk about i need to demonstrate the predominant way of us knowing Christianity was through slavery. Do we ask our preacher for facts like this when he tells us about talking animals and 500 year old men building boats?? Most of us black folk in ameirca can trace our DNA back to west/central Africa. There are no churches or bibles in west central africa before the slave trade that i know of. This is why legislation was drafted making it legal to convert us and enslave us. This is common knowledge. There is no christian institution in west/central africa before the european slave master came in the 1400s. Earlier you gave me an Ethiopian church that happened to come AFTER st F. But can you give me a west african church that predates the slave master.. Can you tell me the west african bible that predates the slave master? If black folks knew the bible before slavery, it would not have taken 300 years to figure out that jesus was not white according to the bible.. If we knew the bible before the white man gave us the bible we would have never accepted that white image of jesus. But we did accept that image because the same people who created that image of jesus gave us our jesus. I think you misunderstood what i said about slavery.. Or i may have misspoke. Let me clarify. I dont know if most africans were introduced to christianity by slave masters. But i do know that all African nations were introduced to christianity by Europeans. And i do know that Dominicans, Hatians, Us in America, Jamaicans, The Brothas in Brazil, Guyana and all through the Caribbean were introduced to christianity from being enslaved. I'm not sure if that is most africans but i do know that is a lot of africans who found their god from a slave master. You talk about Mark spreading the gospel.. You talked to me about history earlier as well.. I dont get my history from books with talking animals. I get my history from books that have dates.. History books dont have talking animals. But give me the date of the oldest Nubian christian church so i can see. And please understand that I can tell you 20 African nations that were introduced to christianity by Europeans and you have to go into a book that has talking animals to tell me about one African nation that was not introduced to by Europeans. Thats strange to me. You right. You have put out some info that appears to be fact based opposed to saying cuz the bible says so.. My apologies if i came off disrespectful. You obviously not a typical christian and you are a thinker.. My bad!! idk about Mark though. What you said about mark is faith based in my opinion with all due respect. But if you got some churches and bibles then ima have to concede. If you take the time to scroll up on my previous post, I never asked you to tell me how the universe proves christianity.. I asked you to tell me how the universe proves bible god. So you say the universe proves god... That's interesting. I can almost agree with you on that one.. But it depends on your definition of god.. (But i still need you to answer me how does creation and or the sun say that BIBLE god is its creator. How would a people who have never seen a bible attribute the creation of the sun to bible god). ++++ If you have the time, i would appreciate if can you tell me the difference between god and bible god.+++++ I dont think that the European created christianity all by himself. But i do feel christianity belongs to the european.. I feel that the European took mythologies from various cultures and created christianity. I don't think Europeans are gods. I dont think they are capable of speaking for a god.. And i would never knowingly serve a god that simple enough for a European to speak for. You will never hear me quote a biblical european author and act like im quoting a god. Christians will always quote the bible and pretend they are quoting something written by a god when they are actually quoting something written and given to them by europeans. I do not think monotheism is a European thing. I feel that monotheism is more of an African thing. I do find it funny that every African nation on the planet has been introduced to christianity by Europeans. Yes i know a lil about Akhenaton but not much. QUOTING YOU ------- Plus, why think that the place an idea originates indicates it’s truth.----- I dont understand that question. You would have to rephrase it for me to answer it... I have no problem using the advancements of other cultures. I have no problem with using sciences from Europeans, medicine from Africans and so forth. But i do have a problem with allowing your oppressor to define your concept of god. I feel as adults we should be bound by facts... But i should not be forced to accept the mythologies of my former oppressor. You cant tell me that the snake talked to the lady and im just supposed to accept that. Also, i have a problem with Africans needing to be saved by Europeans... We, meaning African people around the world, would be going to hell if the Europeans did not give us christianity... Africans ruled Egypt for thousands of years.. They did some great things in their time.. But during that time there was no biblical concepts or biblical literature coming out of Egypt.. Biblical concepts and biblical literature did not come out of Egypt until the Greeks conquered Egypt. Why is that??? Every time you deal with African christianity, there is going to be a European at the origin. There is nothing divine about that.. There is nothing divine about gettin your route to heaven from white folks. Much respect to you for going through my previous post and thoroughly dealing with each challenge and each question.. Hats of for that..
NO because the Lord God himself told us all to pray and he will give you understand, it's up too that individual who want to believe what mankind says or does
Color correct. Neither of the Church fathers are seen as white by historians. Their presuppositions truths that are declared do not come with color tinted images. Calvin's ethnicity is almost irrelevant to the Institutes.
Are you saying that African church fathers and mothers are not portrayed as White? If their truths are all that matter, why lie about their ethnicity? It most certainly does matter and is critical because it is about telling the truth and thus showing to people how God moved early in the church’s history to spread the gospel. If we have evidence and statements from individuals that such a move was intentional, why should we suppress the truth?
@@gfujigo what truth are you talking about? What evidence? This video was nothing but a bunch of baseless claims some of it was even lies. If there's evidence I suggest you share it. I'm not interested in hearsay!
@@billmarshall268 Thanks for your question. I suggest you consult the book and also another book entitled: “A Multitude of Peoples” by Vince Bantu. The books provide evidence and sources to show a) several of the church fathers were African, b) Jesus and the apostles were not always portrayed as European, and c) portrayals of Jesus and the apostles and church fathers as European was at times done deliberately to convey a certain message. I don’t have the source and quotes memorized. However if you don’t have time for hearsay, you will love those books because they provide sources and citations to historical and original documents. All the best to you.
Mr. GAY divides the church incorrectly. Does James Cone paint the Church Black in the faulty doctrines of Black Liberation Theology. Not only are the co-opting the Black Militamt movement like Black Panther movememt.
Given the context of seeing Black people lynched after church service and seeing so-called Christians celebrating and supporting White supremacy, what do you think James H. Come should have written about that situation as a Christian? What would you write to Black people at that time? I am really curious.
@@gfujigo to be lynched after church by the people who gave you christianity and we still want to be Christians is very telling. My neighbor had a dog and a wife like that. No matter how many times he beat the wife and the dog, they both wanted be next to their oppressor... I wonder if there is a medical term for that..
@@Keesha_Hardy With all due respect you sound delusional. This is the stuff you tell a child.. If there was no Europeans we would not have a bible.. The oldest completed old testament is written in Greek.. The oldest gospels were written in Greek.. If Rome/Greece dont go to Africa, Ethiopia and Egypt would not have bible god and if the Portuguese slave masters dont go to west central Africa me and you would not have a bible.. No bible came through the sky.. This why we losin!
@@DJ-uc8mk The Greek Septuagint is a translation, So it’s not the original text. When you visit history they purposely destroyed Israel Temple,Culture and written law!
I know Jesus is not white even if he was it does not matter to me I don't care about the image of Jesus only his word and the Holy Spirit. As long as you have a relationship with Christ and live a surrendered lifestyle that's all that matters to me. But I understand what is being said. If people can look past color and just the spirit it should not matter if they paint Jesus and the disciples white. If you have had an encounter with Him color and the way people think won't even matter because it's by the spirit we live not the natural. Color did not save me but he did.
Irish people from the Republic of Ireland associate Calvinism with Ian Paisley and the Ulster Unionist Party. . But we can not correct them with quating the Westminster Shorter Catechism. They see their theology through the lens of unresolved geo-political battles. The Irish were dominated through racial oppression through military campaigns of William of orange . Perhaps tge authors view of Calvinisn is stained through his own racialized lens and concerns about what he indirectly implies as White privilege of the Ruling Class in Historic Theology in North America. We are readers of : Vince Bantu, Jamar Tisby, Doug Logan and Alvin Padilla, Pablo Polischuk and Willie Jenings. And we are educators and Psycholigists who are White Evangelicals, who have done ministry in inner city Philadelphia. Let us keep the dialogue going.
Christianity is for everybody. Jesus said preach the gospel to every creature. Unfortunately some people do not embrace it. Christianity is not a white man's religion it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately when you look at TV, when you look at biblical movies everybody is white. Me personally I believe everybody in the Bible is black. But Jesus Christ I feel he is black as well. So is Moses, I don't feel Moses look like Charlton Heston. But really we should look at what Jesus did on the cross not his skin color. He died for the world sins that's what we should be looking at. We live in a racist society, and godless as well. We intentionally left out God and his Son Jesus Christ out into the wilderness. It says in the Bible as well the wicked should turn into hell and all the nations that forget God. As Americans we have forgotten God. America is in a terrible spin. I believe God is grieving and angry as well. It also said in the Bible God is angry with the wicked everyday. We need to get right because I believe we are near the soon return of Jesus Christ.
The sun is for everybody.. This is why every human knows and needs the sun.. Jesus is not for everybody.. People have to wait on people to tell them about Jesus.. And unfortunately many of were introduced to Jesus through slavery. The sun feeds the world for free but many African nation had to pay the price of slavery to know about Jesus
Shalom, absolutely, the description of the Messiah ,YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH in Revelations which means to reveal. Revelations 1:13-15 read it for yourself, if you burn anything in a furnace,it will be black, YES the Messiah is a so called black man for the tribe of Judah, according to scripture. Jesus who is Caesar Borgia, in the white washed imagine that we all see is just one example of whitewashing, also the messiah's name could not have been Jesus because the letter j is only a little over 400 years old. truthloyaltylove All praises to YAH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, and our King to come YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH.
Can anyone tell me of this is really about race before I listen? Because I won't waste my time. Is this about how white ppl made everything in the white in the bible? I don't want to get upset so I'm really waiting or an answer. Thx in advance
@@fabbeyonddadancer what proof do we have a snake having a verbal conversation with the first female on the planet who skipped childhood becaise she was created full grown from the rib of a sleeping man? Why are Christians asking for proof of anything in life
My concern is it will make some of the same errors that Eric Mason's Woke Church did. This book and his conferences divided our church in the Philadelphia area. While the BLM riots plundered with impunity the stores owned by whites and blacks alike, people who share the radical vision of reparations and revisionist history that The United States of America began in the Gulah culture of South Carolina with the first slaves in that colony and others. The US began in 1776 . . .there needs to be more: moderation, nuance, clarity and precision. Insread of sloppy Sociology from the Frankfurt school and other dystopia social engineering from Jaques Derrida and other atheist philosophers. Stick to scripture.
It's absolutely the goal to stick to scripture. I believe that is the point of the book. It's a correcting of the falsehoods that many believe and live by. It's putting scripture right in the minds of people who have believed the wrong narrative. This isn't anti white or pro black like Critical Race Theory. This is truth being brought forward. So repentance and restoration to Christ in an authentic way can be had.
@@dwaynegrobinson4125 I disagree with you 100%. That's exactly what this guy is preaching. These claims he's making our baseless. they sound right in the general, but want to ask the point to specifics it cannot be done.
I am suggesting that t g ere is a difference between artistic images of God, and weaknesses in Systematic theology . Do all white Christiams need to embrace a black epistemology. Or an Urban epistemology to see their faith accurately?
Amen. Truly, there is no curse of Ham. Noah cursed Ham's youngest son Canaan, for what Canaan did to him.. Genesis 9:24 So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger grandson had done to him. 25 Then he said: “Cursed be Canaan [Genesis 10:15-19]; A servant of servants He shall be to his brethren.” 26 And he said: “Blessed be the Lord, The God of Shem, And may Canaan be his servant [Joshua 9]. 27 May God enlarge Japheth, And may he dwell in the tents of Shem; And may Canaan be his servant.” Genesis 10:6 The sons of Ham were Cush [Ethiopia], Mizraim [Egypt], Put [Libya], and Canaan [Palestine, Lebanon, parts of western Syria, and parts of western Jordan].
@@billmarshall268 I suggest you read the beginnings of early Christianity thru catholicism (the Jesuits) and how it was used to convert the enslaved Africans and natives by torturing and killing them while they themselves broke the 10 commandments of God. This Christianity was not the same as the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is a reason why people are leaving the church today because of the lies that are and were being told. You may want to read the Bible for yourself. From the beginning to the end. Pray and ask God for his truth and revelation and understanding of his word. You may be surprised what you may find. The cepher is a good Bible to read.
@@gfujigo please note that I am not the original commenter. I was responding to his comment with a portion of the video. I don't know why he is acting this way.
Black people around the world were introduced to christianity by European slave masters. Now several groups of black bible believers are tryin to raise the moral of Christianity to keep black folks subscribed to the religion they were introduced to as slaves by their slave master.... give em a break.
It may not be helpful to you but it’s helpful to me and many in the Black community to see ourselves represented in the scriptures. And Truth matters!! Why would telling the truth of black ppl in the scriptures and in the history of Christianity be divisive?
We paint Santa black and try to paint Jesus black.. White people give us white stuff and instead of us trying to create or own we just paint what they gave us black and call it ours. Knowing that we would have never had it if white folks never gave it to us.. Never would have known Santa or Jesus if white people didnt give them to us. Hopefully one day we will learn to create our own and stop putting our stamp on things created by other people.
@@DJ-uc8mk No one in the video said Jesus was black. Jesus (Yeshua H’Masiach) presented himself as a middle eastern Jewish man. (Middle Eastern doesn’t equal white).
Question: Are you suggesting that it is ok that people who were African and not White are being portrayed as White? Why is it ok to not portray people as they truly are? Would you be ok if European church fathers were presented as Black or African or Hispanic? Didn’t Jesus say we should always tell the truth? What part of Christ’s teaching is that we should ignore issues of truth? Thanks. I look forward to your response.
@@gfujigo Did Africans really have an influence on christianity when every early African church father who had any input was brought up under European institution. I mean all these early African church fathers all had Greek and Italian names and they were educated under European education systems and they all spoke Italian and were raised in Euroepan controlled provinces in Africa.... Is that a real arguement for African influence on a religion that every African nation that follows this religion was introduced to this religion by Europeans
@@whatshatnin4572 Great questions you ask. I am not familiar with any evidence to show that the early African church fathers were educated under European institutions. Do you have specific evidence to show that the early African church fathers were trained by Europeans? Christianity started in the Middle East and North Africa and spread out from there. It wasn’t that invented by Europeans. It’s common for names to be acclimated to different cultures. For example Yeshua is referred to as Jesus, and, for example I have a friend whose last name has a distinct Spanish pronunciation, but here in America the pronunciation is changed. Back to your point, Mark, a North African disciple of Christ, is responsible for bringing Christianity to much of Egypt and other parts of North Africa. The Coptic church also was not of European origin. Finally, the truth of a claim needs to be evaluated based on evidence of the claim and not the ethnicity of those conveying it. Just because Calculus and classical physics were invented in Europe doesn’t mean that those frameworks are not true. Besides, ultimately the source of Christianity is God. Again, good questions and I look forward to your reply.
@@gfujigo Simple google search will tell you that all of the early African Church fathers were born and raised under Greek and or Roman provinces in North Africa. Many of them spoke Latin and Greek and attended Roman/Greek schools. Yes, all their names being Latin matters. They spoke Latin, grew up under Latin and Greek influence and all have Latin names is more than a coincidence. All those variables show you the consciousness of these so called Africans. So with that being said - This so called Early African Church Father influence was first cultivated by the European education and European culture that these Church Fathers were groomed in from an early age. In my opinion, there is nothing African about that... African body but European mind... I find it dishonest for Black Christian Apologist to use these Church Fathers as African biblical influence without telling the listeners about the heavy Greek/Roman influence that these Church Fathers had coming up as a youth... Give us all the information so we can make better decisions, instead of pushing one little narrative that many of can see straight through. How old is Ancient Egypt and North Africa. Egypt and North Africa was around for several old testament events like the flood and the creation story. Obviously Egypt and North Africa was around for Moses and numerous stories but we have very little to zero writings of those biblical stories from Egypt. We don't get much old testament or anything biblical out of Egypt until the Greeks show up around 400 BCE. Africans did not start writing about anything biblical until Europeans showed up. Conquered European educated and European minded Africans gave us biblical concepts while under the rule of Greeks and Romans.
You have no idea how this has just answer prayers in my life…I ALWAYS knew the truth but trying to have these conversation with white ppl and black ppl over decades has drained me spiritually, mentally and emotionally! I just bought the book and will continue to support you both 💯🙌🏾💗🙏🏾
What truth do you know
What truth are you talking about? This book and his propaganda are a bunch of baseless claims.
@@billmarshall268 Exactly
@@billmarshall268 you’re right thanks
@@oldschool5 and you’re right too 🙏🏾
I will be seeking this book! Sounds like it is well thought out!
Jesus believed in justice and love of all humankind. How do you love humankind if any of God’s creations are subjected to hate and treated as second class citizens by so called Christians? This is an excellent conversation!
Yes
Amen. Agreed
That love means you have to follow GOD'S laws. One also cannot claim to be a so called Christian and commit vast crimes. One has to follow Israelite law. God says to treat the foreigner as yourself. However if one does not follow GOD'S ways the Israelites were instructed to kill them! To get the blessings of the covenant one must follow the law! Strangers must accord to Israelite ways in the Old Testament.
Wonderful Pastor Gay! Thank you! Wish we were in North Carolina to attend your church. It's the kind of church we need.
I am sending this to family members rite na! Good word I've been trying to undo some of the damage of whitewashing and failing.
Thank you for writing your book.
Many greek gods had to spend 3 days in hades. These stories of greek gods spending 3 days in hades were written in the BCE time... How do you remove the whitewashing of jesus soending 3 nights in hell like many of the European gods did prior?
Many greek gods had babies with human women. Often times these babies were hidden from evil kings and later these children of gods saved all their people. How do we remove the whitewashing from jesus having unmarried parents, where one parent is a god and the other parent is a human?
Zeus got mad and killed mankind with a flood.. How do we remove the whitewashing of Noah. But the Zeus flood myth doesn't have Afrigan babies being born into slavery like the Noah flood does..
Great work! Thank you.
From a white son of the Father through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.
Good talk. I'll be adding this to my reading list and see what nuggets lie within that I've not discovered on my own. Very touchy subject for those in Christ and for those not in Christ. It's a difficult mental and emotional decision asked of each person to put your identity in Him over and above your already established sense of self identity when that identity is rooted in how you define yourself and in many cases lacks complete historical(or even social/sociological) comprehension. We root ourselves in that which temporal while He is saying to root yourself in Him is to root yourself in what is eternal. I look forward to hear more from him.
Love how well he explains this!!!!
This is dope!! Loved the conversation
Real Convo not Biased Amen!
This was an excellent conversation. Thank you so much!💙💙💙💙
Do you guys accept his approach more because of the intellectual and gentle way he is bringing it or do you still not accept this truth?
This was great Pastor Jerome Gay Jr
How much attention have we paid to Finnish amd Polish or Spanish theologians?
It is an incontrovertible fact that the Abolitiin movement started in the Basement of Park Street Church in Boston , Massachusetts. Those Christian risked falling out if favor with their white neighbors to stand up for what was right. It was not just quakers in Philadelphia as is commonly believed. Frederich Douglasville grandson attended the abolitionist Wheaton College in Illinois because they were accepting fir several generations of free slaves to recieve College education. This is a college that is not perfect but they have had some James Cone devotees speak on campus. Are they, "white washing" Christiamity when they invite Cornell West to speak on campus?
Hey Jay is that James loewen book behind you
Very good information very good I'm glad that you're opening people's eyes at the lies that we've been told for so long and not make Christian the enemy, no matter the color. May not agree with everything but this is good information here
I am writing at this time. Not the time of those horrible lynching, Those Lynchimgs did not happen in Maine and Massachusetts. They happened in Virginia, and SC and North Carolina. They should have been punished but wete not. And there is no excuse for that.
DC in the building!
This is awesome. I love it. I like how he brings out the facts and affirms how God has moved through all of humanity. I like how he also rejects attempts to suppress the value of Black people.
I also love how he uncovers the truth about African history and the role of all peoples in sustaining and progressing the faith.
Facts? God? Bible god is a concept accepted through faith. There is nothing factual about bible god. Before you say there are facts about bible, you must first offer evidence of bible god existence. And we already know that cant be done...
African history? You mean the history of conquered Africans being raised and schooled in Eueropean controlled institutions and territories in Africa. Africans ruled Egypt for thousands of years and no biblical literaure was produced in Egypt during that time. Bible literaure and biblical concepts did not come out of Egypt until the Greeks AkA Euroepans came to Egypt. Now those are facts Bruh.
@@nickjones1314 Then perhaps you should read the book, then go look at actual African history and see what our African ancestors themselves were saying about Christianity over one thousand years before the trans Atlantic slave trade. Look at the kingdom of Axsum that became Christian because they were convinced it was true. It was one of the most powerful empires in the world at that time.
I have no problem with you making objections, but your claims need to be grounded in facts.
Evidence for God is the universe. I think it’s clear that the universe exists.
Your claim that the Bible only occurred when Greeks came to Egypt is also demonstrably false. What is your evidence for this claim?
Thanks. I look forward to your reply.
@@gfujigo Yes indeed Ethiopians on the east side knew about christianity way before our ancestors who were enslaved on the west side. But whatever jesus allegedly did, it wasnt big enough for west/central africans to know about it. It took 1400 years and some slave masters for jesus to get to us. Aint nothing divine about learning about a god from some slave masters.
When i look at Axsum , i see that St . Frummentius introduced the Brothas to christianity.. Why every time Africans find christgianity there is Caucasian giving us this religion. Why is that? And please understand that we are not Ethiopians. Just because the Ethiopian found jesus through a peaceful Caucasian dont mean that the enslaved from west and central africa did not find jesus through European slave masters. We all know about the Dum Diversas and how our ancestors were forced into being baptized and forced into being converted to christianity. Let us not pretend.
Aksum Christianity
Aksum embraced the Orthodox tradition of Christianity in the 4th century (c. 340-356 C.E.) under the rule of King Ezana. The king had been converted by Frumentius, a former Syrian captive who was made Bishop of Aksum. ... This invasion saw the inclusion of the region into the Aksumite kingdom for the next seven decades.
Facts? You are a christian. You dont deal with facts. You deal with faith. You not a knower.. You are a believer.
How is the universe evidence of bible god? Let us talk facts as you mentioned earlier.. What would you say to the Arab when he says that the universe is proof of Alah? That sounds silly. Tell me this.. If there is Island full of people who have NEVER seen Europeans. Please tell me how they would attribute the creation of the sun to god of the bible? And answer me this too - When you look at the sun, what about the sun tells you that it was created by the christian god. What part of the sun or what about the sun says it was created your god?
@@nickjones1314 It’s simply untrue that Western Africans did not know about Christianity. Mansa Musa even talks about Christians in West Africa - again, before enslavement.
You have to show and demonstrate that the predominant way of us knowing Christianity was through slavery. That narrative is just that. - narrative with no facts.
Yes, there was a version of Christianity forced upon some of our ancestors. However to take that and say that’s how the majority of Africans knew about Christianity is just plain false. Also, how is it that Syrians are now White at that time. Mark, a North African disciple of Jesus, played a huge role in the launch of the Coptic church - which was not a European church or a child of European Christianity. The Nubian church started around 200 CE.
Then you claim I deal with faith and not facts. Identify a specific quote of mine where I asserted faith in response to your assertions. It seems you are making assumptions and not dealing with the facts I adduce. Have you seen a response of mine akin to “well I just believe” or “well I just have faith”? Even if you disagree you must admit I am responding to your questions with facts and I have not invoked faith and belief to respond to your questions. So, let’s just continue to have a great discussion without making baseless accusations. I enjoy these types of discussions and in fact appreciate your questions.
I said the universe is evidence for God. I did not say the universe is evidence of Christianity. Evidence for Christianity can be found in the historical facts regarding the resurrection. The universe is evidence for God because being contingent, the universe ultimately needs a non-contingent source. This source of reality has to be able to, for example, determine the laws of the universe, create those laws and enforce those laws. Notice the absence of any faith claims. We infer causes from effects all the time. That’s how rationality works. We look at the moon and it’s make up and infer that it was formed through a collision with something early in the solar system. We can look at the universe and infer what is necessary to bring about what we observe. When you catalog what must be necessary to bring about the universe and any contingent reality, God is by far the best explanation. By God we mean the ultimate reality, the foundation of all being, and the source of all existence that is also non-contingent. We are not talking about some cosmic mechanic or Zeus type of figure. We know reality has a coherent foundation because we observe reality to be coherent and non-chaotic in its operations.
If a Muslim tells me that the universe is proof of Allah I would respond with the facts of the resurrection that confirm the claims about Jesus. Now, on some level, all theistic faiths agree about God. So, in fact, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and some strands of Hinduism and Buddhism all agree on the core metaphysics of who and what God is. As one Muslim theist said, you can’t look for God in the realm of beings because he is the being of all realms. So there are vast areas of agreement on some points about God.
You seem to treat Europeans as if they are god like and just controlling everything and everybody and created Christianity themselves? Why? Why think that monotheism is a European thing? Europeans are not gods.
Have you heard of Akhenaton? Plus, why think that the place an idea originates indicates it’s truth. Since calculus and classical physics originated in Europe does that mean it’s bad and we should avoid them? What matters is whether the idea is true or not. Africans were the first to isolate and use antibiotics. Does that mean that other folks should say using antibiotics is wrong?
The sun tells me a lot. The sun is contingent so I know that it did not create itself. The sun rests on the laws of physics. So I can learn a lot about solar system formation and other stars from looking at the sun. The sun, like the universe, is evidence of stable understandable order. This tells me whatever is responsible for the universe is capable of determining and creating stable understandable order.
It doesn’t matter who attributes what to what. The only thing that matters is whether we have evidence that a claim is true or not. That’s all that matters.
Thanks for your comments and I look forward to your reply. All the best to you. 👍🏿
@@gfujigo Mansa Musa talking about christian is so minute bro.. Cmon now.. Im sure its some crips in Delaware but we both know aint no real crippin goin on in Delaware. Christianity is an institution. Institutions have buildings and literature. In this case the building would be the church and the literature would be the bible. So when was the first christian church built in west africa and by who... And what bible did they use. Is there a christian church in Mali and when was it built. The first christian church that i know of in west Africa was built in Ghana right next to the slave dungeon where the christians kept our ancestors.. You dont date an institution on something that someone spoke about... Show me the church and the bible.
You talk about i need to demonstrate the predominant way of us knowing Christianity was through slavery. Do we ask our preacher for facts like this when he tells us about talking animals and 500 year old men building boats?? Most of us black folk in ameirca can trace our DNA back to west/central Africa. There are no churches or bibles in west central africa before the slave trade that i know of. This is why legislation was drafted making it legal to convert us and enslave us. This is common knowledge. There is no christian institution in west/central africa before the european slave master came in the 1400s. Earlier you gave me an Ethiopian church that happened to come AFTER st F. But can you give me a west african church that predates the slave master.. Can you tell me the west african bible that predates the slave master? If black folks knew the bible before slavery, it would not have taken 300 years to figure out that jesus was not white according to the bible.. If we knew the bible before the white man gave us the bible we would have never accepted that white image of jesus. But we did accept that image because the same people who created that image of jesus gave us our jesus.
I think you misunderstood what i said about slavery.. Or i may have misspoke. Let me clarify. I dont know if most africans were introduced to christianity by slave masters. But i do know that all African nations were introduced to christianity by Europeans. And i do know that Dominicans, Hatians, Us in America, Jamaicans, The Brothas in Brazil, Guyana and all through the Caribbean were introduced to christianity from being enslaved. I'm not sure if that is most africans but i do know that is a lot of africans who found their god from a slave master.
You talk about Mark spreading the gospel.. You talked to me about history earlier as well.. I dont get my history from books with talking animals. I get my history from books that have dates.. History books dont have talking animals. But give me the date of the oldest Nubian christian church so i can see. And please understand that I can tell you 20 African nations that were introduced to christianity by Europeans and you have to go into a book that has talking animals to tell me about one African nation that was not introduced to by Europeans. Thats strange to me.
You right. You have put out some info that appears to be fact based opposed to saying cuz the bible says so.. My apologies if i came off disrespectful. You obviously not a typical christian and you are a thinker.. My bad!! idk about Mark though. What you said about mark is faith based in my opinion with all due respect. But if you got some churches and bibles then ima have to concede.
If you take the time to scroll up on my previous post, I never asked you to tell me how the universe proves christianity.. I asked you to tell me how the universe proves bible god. So you say the universe proves god... That's interesting. I can almost agree with you on that one.. But it depends on your definition of god.. (But i still need you to answer me how does creation and or the sun say that BIBLE god is its creator. How would a people who have never seen a bible attribute the creation of the sun to bible god).
++++ If you have the time, i would appreciate if can you tell me the difference between god and bible god.+++++
I dont think that the European created christianity all by himself. But i do feel christianity belongs to the european.. I feel that the European took mythologies from various cultures and created christianity. I don't think Europeans are gods. I dont think they are capable of speaking for a god.. And i would never knowingly serve a god that simple enough for a European to speak for. You will never hear me quote a biblical european author and act like im quoting a god. Christians will always quote the bible and pretend they are quoting something written by a god when they are actually quoting something written and given to them by europeans. I do not think monotheism is a European thing. I feel that monotheism is more of an African thing. I do find it funny that every African nation on the planet has been introduced to christianity by Europeans.
Yes i know a lil about Akhenaton but not much. QUOTING YOU ------- Plus, why think that the place an idea originates indicates it’s truth.----- I dont understand that question. You would have to rephrase it for me to answer it... I have no problem using the advancements of other cultures. I have no problem with using sciences from Europeans, medicine from Africans and so forth. But i do have a problem with allowing your oppressor to define your concept of god. I feel as adults we should be bound by facts... But i should not be forced to accept the mythologies of my former oppressor. You cant tell me that the snake talked to the lady and im just supposed to accept that.
Also, i have a problem with Africans needing to be saved by Europeans... We, meaning African people around the world, would be going to hell if the Europeans did not give us christianity... Africans ruled Egypt for thousands of years.. They did some great things in their time.. But during that time there was no biblical concepts or biblical literature coming out of Egypt.. Biblical concepts and biblical literature did not come out of Egypt until the Greeks conquered Egypt. Why is that???
Every time you deal with African christianity, there is going to be a European at the origin. There is nothing divine about that.. There is nothing divine about gettin your route to heaven from white folks.
Much respect to you for going through my previous post and thoroughly dealing with each challenge and each question.. Hats of for that..
Liberation Theolgy I'd completely wrong.
NO because the Lord God himself told us all to pray and he will give you understand, it's up too that individual who want to believe what mankind says or does
Are you playing the game in which adults ready copywritten words from man and play make believe that they are the words of a god?
@@nickjones1314 it praying man made
@@blackcat3941 huh
Color correct. Neither of the Church fathers are seen as white by historians. Their presuppositions truths that are declared do not come with color tinted images. Calvin's ethnicity is almost irrelevant to the Institutes.
Are you saying that African church fathers and mothers are not portrayed as White?
If their truths are all that matter, why lie about their ethnicity? It most certainly does matter and is critical because it is about telling the truth and thus showing to people how God moved early in the church’s history to spread the gospel.
If we have evidence and statements from individuals that such a move was intentional, why should we suppress the truth?
@@gfujigo what truth are you talking about? What evidence? This video was nothing but a bunch of baseless claims some of it was even lies. If there's evidence I suggest you share it. I'm not interested in hearsay!
It's sad that the world has come to this. It seems this guy is inspired by the Hebrew Israelites.
@@billmarshall268 Thanks for your question.
I suggest you consult the book and also another book entitled: “A Multitude of Peoples” by Vince Bantu. The books provide evidence and sources to show a) several of the church fathers were African, b) Jesus and the apostles were not always portrayed as European, and c) portrayals of Jesus and the apostles and church fathers as European was at times done deliberately to convey a certain message.
I don’t have the source and quotes memorized. However if you don’t have time for hearsay, you will love those books because they provide sources and citations to historical and original documents.
All the best to you.
The middle east are Caucasoid people we don't all look lily white like this the most stupidest thing racest thing I've ever heard.
We are one in Chr I st, neither male or female, Free or Slave.
Mr. GAY divides the church incorrectly. Does James Cone paint the Church Black in the faulty doctrines of Black Liberation Theology. Not only are the co-opting the Black Militamt movement like Black Panther movememt.
Given the context of seeing Black people lynched after church service and seeing so-called Christians celebrating and supporting White supremacy, what do you think James H. Come should have written about that situation as a Christian? What would you write to Black people at that time? I am really curious.
@@gfujigo to be lynched after church by the people who gave you christianity and we still want to be Christians is very telling. My neighbor had a dog and a wife like that. No matter how many times he beat the wife and the dog, they both wanted be next to their oppressor... I wonder if there is a medical term for that..
@@DJ-uc8mk White people didn’t give us Christianity. Christ, who is God, did.
@@Keesha_Hardy With all due respect you sound delusional. This is the stuff you tell a child.. If there was no Europeans we would not have a bible.. The oldest completed old testament is written in Greek.. The oldest gospels were written in Greek.. If Rome/Greece dont go to Africa, Ethiopia and Egypt would not have bible god and if the Portuguese slave masters dont go to west central Africa me and you would not have a bible.. No bible came through the sky.. This why we losin!
@@DJ-uc8mk The Greek Septuagint is a translation, So it’s not the original text. When you visit history they purposely destroyed Israel Temple,Culture and written law!
I know Jesus is not white even if he was it does not matter to me I don't care about the image of Jesus only his word and the Holy Spirit. As long as you have a relationship with Christ and live a surrendered lifestyle that's all that matters to me. But I understand what is being said. If people can look past color and just the spirit it should not matter if they paint Jesus and the disciples white.
If you have had an encounter with Him color and the way people think won't even matter because it's by the spirit we live not the natural. Color did not save me but he did.
God told us not to make any false image
Irish people from the Republic of Ireland associate Calvinism with Ian Paisley and the Ulster Unionist Party. . But we can not correct them with quating the Westminster Shorter Catechism. They see their theology through the lens of unresolved geo-political battles. The Irish were dominated through racial oppression through military campaigns of William of orange . Perhaps tge authors view of Calvinisn is stained through his own racialized lens and concerns about what he indirectly implies as White privilege of the Ruling Class in Historic Theology in North America. We are readers of : Vince Bantu, Jamar Tisby, Doug Logan and Alvin Padilla, Pablo Polischuk and Willie Jenings. And we are educators and Psycholigists who are White Evangelicals, who have done ministry in inner city Philadelphia. Let us keep the dialogue going.
Christianity is for everybody. Jesus said preach the gospel to every creature. Unfortunately some people do not embrace it. Christianity is not a white man's religion it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately when you look at TV, when you look at biblical movies everybody is white. Me personally I believe everybody in the Bible is black. But Jesus Christ I feel he is black as well. So is Moses, I don't feel Moses look like Charlton Heston. But really we should look at what Jesus did on the cross not his skin color. He died for the world sins that's what we should be looking at. We live in a racist society, and godless as well. We intentionally left out God and his Son Jesus Christ out into the wilderness. It says in the Bible as well the wicked should turn into hell and all the nations that forget God. As Americans we have forgotten God. America is in a terrible spin. I believe God is grieving and angry as well. It also said in the Bible God is angry with the wicked everyday. We need to get right because I believe we are near the soon return of Jesus Christ.
The sun is for everybody.. This is why every human knows and needs the sun.. Jesus is not for everybody.. People have to wait on people to tell them about Jesus.. And unfortunately many of were introduced to Jesus through slavery. The sun feeds the world for free but many African nation had to pay the price of slavery to know about Jesus
Shalom, absolutely, the description of the Messiah ,YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH in Revelations which means to reveal. Revelations 1:13-15 read it for yourself, if you burn anything in a furnace,it will be black, YES the Messiah is a so called black man for the tribe of Judah, according to scripture.
Jesus who is Caesar Borgia, in the white washed imagine that we all see is just one example of whitewashing, also the messiah's name could not have been Jesus because the letter j is only a little over 400 years old.
truthloyaltylove
All praises to YAH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, and our King to come YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH.
Can anyone tell me of this is really about race before I listen? Because I won't waste my time. Is this about how white ppl made everything in the white in the bible? I don't want to get upset so I'm really waiting or an answer. Thx in advance
Listen to video. It's NOT race politics from a progressive leftist stance.
The book does sound interesting . And there may be a helpful critique of Cone's neo-marxism.
What proof do you have of cone adhering to neo Marxism
@@fabbeyonddadancer what proof do we have a snake having a verbal conversation with the first female on the planet who skipped childhood becaise she was created full grown from the rib of a sleeping man? Why are Christians asking for proof of anything in life
@@whatshatnin4572 I’m not a practitioner of Judeo Christianity lol .
@@fabbeyonddadancer lol. My bad
@@whatshatnin4572 but I would push back and say maybe a Christian philosopher might be better prepared to answer that .
My concern is it will make some of the same errors that Eric Mason's Woke Church did. This book and his conferences divided our church in the Philadelphia area. While the BLM riots plundered with impunity the stores owned by whites and blacks alike, people who share the radical vision of reparations and revisionist history that The United States of America began in the Gulah culture of South Carolina with the first slaves in that colony and others. The US began in 1776 . . .there needs to be more: moderation, nuance, clarity and precision. Insread of sloppy Sociology from the Frankfurt school and other dystopia social engineering from Jaques Derrida and other atheist philosophers. Stick to scripture.
It's absolutely the goal to stick to scripture. I believe that is the point of the book. It's a correcting of the falsehoods that many believe and live by. It's putting scripture right in the minds of people who have believed the wrong narrative. This isn't anti white or pro black like Critical Race Theory. This is truth being brought forward. So repentance and restoration to Christ in an authentic way can be had.
@@dwaynegrobinson4125 I disagree with you 100%. That's exactly what this guy is preaching. These claims he's making our baseless. they sound right in the general, but want to ask the point to specifics it cannot be done.
@@billmarshall268 Which claims did he make that were baseless? Name some.
I am suggesting that t g ere is a difference between artistic images of God, and weaknesses in Systematic theology . Do all white Christiams need to embrace a black epistemology. Or an Urban epistemology to see their faith accurately?
Amen. Truly, there is no curse of Ham. Noah cursed Ham's youngest son Canaan, for what Canaan did to him..
Genesis 9:24 So Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger grandson had done to him. 25 Then he said: “Cursed be Canaan [Genesis 10:15-19]; A servant of servants He shall be to his brethren.” 26 And he said: “Blessed be the Lord, The God of Shem, And may Canaan be his servant [Joshua 9]. 27 May God enlarge Japheth, And may he dwell in the tents of Shem; And may Canaan be his servant.”
Genesis 10:6 The sons of Ham were Cush [Ethiopia], Mizraim [Egypt], Put [Libya], and Canaan [Palestine, Lebanon, parts of western Syria, and parts of western Jordan].
And you know this claim is pretty much baseless. It was not the majority and it doesn't support Christian values.
This man is so divisive, why are you asking him how to evangelize,,,?
I dont see that spirit. How did you come to that conclusion?
@@MrCaribKaraoke divisive is the way many christians say "i'm uncomfortable".
@@k.h.a.l.i.l. BIG FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!
@@MrCaribKaraoke because he's saying things that aren't true. I have never heard anybody say that the people in the Bible were white.
@@billmarshall268 I suggest you read the beginnings of early Christianity thru catholicism (the Jesuits) and how it was used to convert the enslaved Africans and natives by torturing and killing them while they themselves broke the 10 commandments of God. This Christianity was not the same as the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is a reason why people are leaving the church today because of the lies that are and were being told. You may want to read the Bible for yourself. From the beginning to the end. Pray and ask God for his truth and revelation and understanding of his word. You may be surprised what you may find. The cepher is a good Bible to read.
Liberation. Theology Started in Latin Amerca.
Russians are treated worse then blacks at times. In both neighborhoods
You are lying
Unsubing!! I can't believe this! This guy should not have a platform spreading his racist hate. It's not about race my guy, we are All One in Christ
What did he specifically say that caused you to unsubscribe? Which specific quote?
Thanks.
Refer to 23:23 in the video.
@@brandedcharmer9321 Is it when he says “The time to be Christ like is when you don’t want to be”?
What am I missing? Thanks
@@gfujigo please note that I am not the original commenter. I was responding to his comment with a portion of the video.
I don't know why he is acting this way.
@@brandedcharmer9321 I see. Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it. My apologies.
This is not helpful or needed! This is divisive and harmful. We need to focus on being Christ followers not race baiters
Truth seekers!
Black people around the world were introduced to christianity by European slave masters. Now several groups of black bible believers are tryin to raise the moral of Christianity to keep black folks subscribed to the religion they were introduced to as slaves by their slave master.... give em a break.
It may not be helpful to you but it’s helpful to me and many in the Black community to see ourselves represented in the scriptures. And Truth matters!! Why would telling the truth of black ppl in the scriptures and in the history of Christianity be divisive?
We paint Santa black and try to paint Jesus black.. White people give us white stuff and instead of us trying to create or own we just paint what they gave us black and call it ours. Knowing that we would have never had it if white folks never gave it to us.. Never would have known Santa or Jesus if white people didnt give them to us. Hopefully one day we will learn to create our own and stop putting our stamp on things created by other people.
@@DJ-uc8mk No one in the video said Jesus was black. Jesus (Yeshua H’Masiach) presented himself as a middle eastern Jewish man. (Middle Eastern doesn’t equal white).
Lol, not about your culture dude! It's about Christ and His teaching.
Question: Are you suggesting that it is ok that people who were African and not White are being portrayed as White? Why is it ok to not portray people as they truly are? Would you be ok if European church fathers were presented as Black or African or Hispanic?
Didn’t Jesus say we should always tell the truth? What part of Christ’s teaching is that we should ignore issues of truth?
Thanks. I look forward to your response.
@@gfujigo Did Africans really have an influence on christianity when every early African church father who had any input was brought up under European institution. I mean all these early African church fathers all had Greek and Italian names and they were educated under European education systems and they all spoke Italian and were raised in Euroepan controlled provinces in Africa.... Is that a real arguement for African influence on a religion that every African nation that follows this religion was introduced to this religion by Europeans
We need to cancel Cone.
@@whatshatnin4572 Great questions you ask.
I am not familiar with any evidence to show that the early African church fathers were educated under European institutions. Do you have specific evidence to show that the early African church fathers were trained by Europeans? Christianity started in the Middle East and North Africa and spread out from there. It wasn’t that invented by Europeans.
It’s common for names to be acclimated to different cultures. For example Yeshua is referred to as Jesus, and, for example I have a friend whose last name has a distinct Spanish pronunciation, but here in America the pronunciation is changed.
Back to your point, Mark, a North African disciple of Christ, is responsible for bringing Christianity to much of Egypt and other parts of North Africa. The Coptic church also was not of European origin.
Finally, the truth of a claim needs to be evaluated based on evidence of the claim and not the ethnicity of those conveying it. Just because Calculus and classical physics were invented in Europe doesn’t mean that those frameworks are not true. Besides, ultimately the source of Christianity is God.
Again, good questions and I look forward to your reply.
@@gfujigo Simple google search will tell you that all of the early African Church fathers were born and raised under Greek and or Roman provinces in North Africa. Many of them spoke Latin and Greek and attended Roman/Greek schools. Yes, all their names being Latin matters. They spoke Latin, grew up under Latin and Greek influence and all have Latin names is more than a coincidence. All those variables show you the consciousness of these so called Africans. So with that being said - This so called Early African Church Father influence was first cultivated by the European education and European culture that these Church Fathers were groomed in from an early age. In my opinion, there is nothing African about that... African body but European mind... I find it dishonest for Black Christian Apologist to use these Church Fathers as African biblical influence without telling the listeners about the heavy Greek/Roman influence that these Church Fathers had coming up as a youth... Give us all the information so we can make better decisions, instead of pushing one little narrative that many of can see straight through.
How old is Ancient Egypt and North Africa. Egypt and North Africa was around for several old testament events like the flood and the creation story. Obviously Egypt and North Africa was around for Moses and numerous stories but we have very little to zero writings of those biblical stories from Egypt. We don't get much old testament or anything biblical out of Egypt until the Greeks show up around 400 BCE. Africans did not start writing about anything biblical until Europeans showed up. Conquered European educated and European minded Africans gave us biblical concepts while under the rule of Greeks and Romans.