The next time I make a video like this I am going to take WAY more photos, with more close ups to show the action and some of the situations playing out. Otherwise I'd like to continue on the tactical side of analyzing my matches and I hope that helps other new players like me start to put together some skills! Edit: One important detail that I forgot to mention is that I don't have any other units to sub in for Cities of Sigmar. Aside from reinforcing certain units or not, I don't have the ability to change my list. I am currently building Callis and Toll and will be able to add them to my army soon.
Great format and video! I know your videos are going to keep getting better! I like the tactical analysis it’s quite good. Couple things I noticed. Yes your alternative tactic was a better one than what you did. Moving 400 points of units forward into chargeable territory was definitely a mistake. Damage output is much higher now and so screens are going to die and cities doesn’t really want to be in combat over multiple units because we don’t do much damage in combat. Also you’re probably better served by a unit of 10 cavaliers rather than the 2x5. If you’re using them as a hammer. They will take buffs better in larger units. Honestly steelhelms currently are useless imho. We’re better off just taking more fusiliers and cavaliers. 15 health on 3+ with 10” move for 10.5 points per wound vs the steel helms 9 points per wound is just plain better - I get that it’s less thematic. The only time I would bring steelhelms currently is if I hve 90 points left over in a list. You also want to setup/build a list that can do a different battle tactic than seize the center. Setup to do take the flanks if you can and sadly Callis and Toll are also auto includes right now as they can get you the order battle tactic of 4 corners, and take their lands almost every game and if they live can also help with take the flanks on the battleplans where that’s not possible turn 1. Also you learned the hard way- never split fire just overkill what you need to kill. Overall good explanation and battle report for learning sake. I think Seraphon is a stronger army than cities overall. Human Cities in in a rough spot currently and just spamming fusiliers and cavaliers is really the best build but kind of boring and a painting challenge. Wildercorps Hunters are also useful since they pregame move 5” so they can generally be your throw away unit to screen/grab objectives or go do take the flanks- granted they are more expensive than steelhelms so maybe you’d prefer steelhelms- they just don’t take any order resources to operate. Please make more of these I very much enjoyed the report! More photos and up that terrain game 🤩
I really appreciate all the advice Oliver! Seriously your comment is a treasure trove of things I hadn't considered/learned yet. I do have a question for you, should I set up to do take the flanks and seize the center, so that I could do them Turn 1 & Turn 2? In that case, wouldn't I end up in a similar spot to my original plan, spreading myself pretty thin? I know now that just because I went wide doesn't mean I need to push forward on that first turn, but I'm curious what that could look like. Does that mean leaving a solitary unit of Cavaliers out on a flank for the sole purpose of that tactic? Or maybe my Marshall on Griffon? Also, I am about to build a Callis and Toll unit that I got over Christmas, so I'll be able to add that to my forces soon :D.
@ there’s a concept that I like which is: the only reason we do damage to enemies is to reduce models so they can’t score. When you think about it that way, our army is setup nicely to use cheap models to maximize our scores. Yeah I usually setup 2 units by themselves on each flank just for the purpose of- if you give me first turn I will get a BT- and if you go first to stop that I may get the double turn and especially in shooting heavy list and cavaliers charging turn 1 and turn 2 if we’re going second, then usually that double is savage. So they want to give us first turn- the. We score 8-10pts that turn and set ourselves up to be defensive to the double turn (maybe just losing 1-2 flanking units) and then you can drop calis and toll in for 2 free BTs turn 2-3 as most armies won’t double back to kill them or you can put them so out of position it’s good for you. Fusiliers and Cavaliers are both deceptively strong. Fortified fusiliers ignore that first point of rend and with all out defense and/or warforger they’re on 3+ saves often with a 5+ ward from orders or pontifex. Similarly horses are also incredibly tanky. We’re deceptively defensive. Also don’t sleep on the -1 to wound prayer
@@oliverbradeen7524 Again thank you for all the insight, it really helps. I hope other new players read these comments. If you set up 1-2 units on each flank for a BT, is the rest of your army in the center? I guess it depends on the map and where the objectives are. Which units are the ones that you put on flanks, I'm assuming cavaliers because of the movement? Although if it's the map we looked at then anyone can cross centre with an advance in formation order.
Great Battle reports and game analysis. I liked the tactical view of the deployment and movements, really helps to understand your strategy. As someone who is also collecting Humans only Cities of Sigmar, its nice to see others running humans only CoS. Some advice on your list, units and strategy: Humans unfortuanely suffer from hitting/wounding on 4+, which lowers their general output. However what you lack in damage, you make up for with great movement and defense from the Officar's orders Advance in formation & Hold the Line. Foot Marshall. I don't know if you knew during the game, but you can give the relic envoy to a unit during deployment. And that unit can recieve an officar's ability from any hero on the battlefield, not just the foot marshall. Great on cavaliers. Cavaliers. Like many other have commented, reinforced Cavaliers will serve you better than 2x5. 10x Cavaliers have decent damage on the charge with AoA and strike Them Down order. Pair them with relic envoy and they can still recieve orders without a hero having to babysit next to them. Cavaliers have great mobility and defense which makes them amazing at pinning your opponent in their deployment zone. This will force your opponent to commit resources to deal with 30 health with 3+ save, 5+ ward. Fusiliers will always be missing out of shooting in the first round. Unless your opponent goes first. Be proactive in the first round, dictate the board with your movement from AiF, and pontifex prayer. Command Corps. Great unit to screen the front of your fusiliers. Pair them with the foot marshall behind and 10 steelhelms infront, to protective the fusiliers. Retreat with them and replace dead models with Brazier of the Holy Flame. Warhulk and Great Cannon. Always be shooting with them on same target to get the +1 to hit. They both have 24" long range and the Warhulk doesnt need to be fortified to shoot. Steelhelms. I personally like steelhelms, but they imo GW need to change them to be a unit of 20 instead of 10 and make them like 160-170 points. They are good at taking exposed objectives, screening fusiliers from deepstrike. Not good in a fight. Pair well with the Marshall on Griffon. Marshall on Griffon. Mobile melee hero that is good at catching units flat footed (slow units or units that don't want to be charged). I will pair him with 20 steelhelms and use them as a screen and 4" redeploy to protect the griffon from charges. Fun combo is to run up the steelhelms with the griffon behind. Charge with the griffon, do some damage, then use "Power Through" command to get behind the steelhelms after combat. Pontifex. 2 chant priest that wants to always be chanting. I would try to get oath and steel off every turn on my front unit of Command Corps to make them more suvivable. I see that you are building Callis and Toll. They are great at deepstriking behind enemy lines. Use the AiF officar order to move them 3" for a 6" charge onto an enemy wizard (Slann Starmaster) All that said, Humans CoS will continue to struggle until we get some sort of hammer unit or better buffs that aren't just +1 to hits. Match ups with high mobility, armor saves or recursion will be a struggle, but not impossible.
Thank you for all the wonderful advice! I love the Power Through combo with the Griffon and the Callis and Toll AiF play. I am literally going through your comment taking notes right now 😁!
I'm quite beginner so take what i say with a pinch of salt... Really interesting video, you have a lot more of a plan in mind when you play whereas i tend to be a little more reactionary. Something i never considered myself but i could definitely grow as a player by planning out my tactical objectives a lot more! I play skaven but seems cities to have a similar approach where you're looking to combine units to maximize their output. You are suffering with the cavalry a little bit for the lack of the marshall, but they can still definitely do some work for you. Remember, you're looking to make seemingly unfair combinations with your various units, you almost want to partner/group units together, keep your units of things that want to work together, together, both in terms of regiments and on the field. Baiting out your opponents drops is a good idea, if you're going to be reacting to how they deploy (as you suggested at the end), i think that is more difficult for cities though because of how synergy reliant they are. If you're looking to be more methodical, you're probably fine dictating who goes first or 2nd by reducing drops. (I know the cavalry bit has been over said but bear with)...as a suggestion (without list changing for the cavalry marshall)... consider combining the cavalry together, move the pontifex to free up regiment 1 and the Marshall & relic envoy to General's regiment. Reduces your drops to 3 Other bit of advice (as someone who plays against seraphon a lot) is to consider what units are a "threat" in your opponents army. This is something that comes from experience and from talking with seraphon players. Aggradons are by far their strongest unit atm so look to remove those first if you can. Next look at things with high objective score to reduce their ability to cap points (taking out/weakening the saurus warriors removes 10 objective score off the board, for not a lot of effort. The Bastiladon is a meatshield but only has 5 objective score, so it's very easy to take from but hard to kill). The best form of defense is a good offense, if you take their threats off the board before they can take yours off you will win. Last bit of general advice: consider what will most benefit you when using command points. When the round starts you should have a rough idea as to how you already want to use them. Rally is good to steal a point by maybe getting some models back... but generally you're better off using it for more damage or movement out of your guys (covering fire, redeploy etc.), especially in the first few turns. As far as looking at "unfair" combos goes, here are a couple of suggestions to keep in mind: >Use the alchemic warforger to cast celestial speed on the reinforced cavalry massively increases the threat range (they can declare the charge at 12 inches, but rolling 3 dice makes it significantly more likely and forces your opponent on the back foot a little... if you run him up he can probably get the order for +1 attack on them too). This will make a first turn charge likely or make for a great counter charge if you go 2nd. After rolling the 10 d6s for mortal wounds, you're looking at getting 30-40 attacks in plus mount attacks, which you can all-out-attack with... it's going to be a gross amount of damage. >Field Marshall, his aura for additional objective score is great, but he is squishie so keep him back to start, then move him where he can help something else cap a point on another turn. Look at taking back points with him as an option instead of trying to deny your opponent before they're even on the point. >Command Corps, look at keeping them closer to your guns, ideally somewhere between the guns and the frontline. Worst case they serve as a charge block, best case, you get to "covering fire" with a unit of Fusiliers AND a great cannon. You can also use them to reploy a couple of units instead of just one, which could have saved your fieldmarshall AND the steelhelms. This unit is more of a support piece. > Consider keeping your fusiliers on a home objective and using "Consecrate their land" on it to give them a ward save against spells/ranged attacks. > Take but don't hold. I could be wrong with this last one, but you're looking more to score with Cities than deny your opponent things. It's often easier to take a point off an opponent than hold one against them. If it's a choice between keeping some dudes alive or your opponent taking a point... maybe let them take the point, buff those dudes and then send them in to get it back. Redeploying backwards will force your opponent to make a longer charge AND bring them in range of your guns/counter charges. Especially if you're running the Griffon nearby! This all said, your opponent played a BRUTAL game! They made really smart choices! Looking forward to seeing the next batrep!!!
Hey DruidicPose, really appreciate the comment and all the advice you shared. I learned a lot and I am looking forward to my next match so I can try some of it out. About the regiments, even though you can include more heroes into regiments now as Freeguild Veterans, you can still have max 1 in a regiment. Pontifex Zenestra and the Alchemite Warforger cannot take Freeguild Veterans so then I have: Marshall on Griffon, Marshall with Envoy, and the Fusil Major, so no matter what I'll need that extra regiment anyway. I am going to reinforce my Cavaliers though, and my next list will have Callis and Toll in it (just got them for Christmas!). I'll swap out the Marshall on Griffon for Callis and Toll and then I can fit a Cavalier Marshall in as well. I really like the take but don't hold advice, I hadn't really considered that. I'll test it out in my next match. Thanks again for all the advice, it's so helpful as I don't find this type of advice online anywhere when I go looking.
Really great video! I don't have too much advice to give on this, since it's been too long since I played, but I think the unit of 20 Steelhelms might be a bit if a trap. But thats because I'd rather have 3 units to screen the front, and leave the Command Corps in the back to orotect the Marshall and use their ability to minipulate the amount of commands you use in a turn. But that's just me.
Great video and that was a good match! I love this style of video. Feels like TSN. Next time we play, I'll help you take photos and I'll send you my plan/strategy, so you can add that too, if you want! An idea for tactics, I like how you are setting up one one side. I think having your griffin, as it is mobile, hiding behind your army until my charge, as well as having your cavaliers on the far side would be pretty smart, as then you can really utilize your charge. Your griffin can then flank and charge whoever I used to get into your steelhelms. Also, why not split up your steelhelms x20 if you are already having a single unit regiment? They die so easily anyways, but if you had a second, you can have another unit push further up into my side of the territory, denying me a charge and giving yourself the opportunity to take the seize the flanks battle tactics. Also, since my Slann is pretty stationary, having a screen from whence you can fly out your griffin to attack my main wizards could be devastating to me. Also, for myself, I should have used my redeploy both rounds. I could have pushed my saurus warriors up and allowed to them to attack in turn 2
Thanks buddy, it will definitely be easier if we are both taking photos :D. I've gotta think about splitting up that reinforced Steelhelm unit, it's just so nice for the whole thing to receive the Alchemite Warforger buff, but I think as someone else commented, I only need to do that if they really need to stick to an objective. PS You're right, I forgot to mention how your Saurus Warriors never got involved. Kind of sad you beat me without using two of your units :'(. But I put up more of a fight next time.
@@Polak966 Its true. There is a world where you go first and I get a double turn and you just take two rounds of shooting, quite unfair. But I agree with another commenter that I spread out too thin and really was set up to be smashed by a double turn
Just finished watching! Hope you guys had a ton of fun fielding your minis and rolling some dice. So seize the centre most of the time is a trap. Unless you have alot of chaff or strong defence or wanna mosh pit the middle, i think its worth to give up the tactic. Cities really wants to play as a castle so you could sieze the centre and position your castle at that location? But yeah you are spot on you were spread too thin. Its also just learning and using what models you have. Seraphon have strong scrolls but they are expensive so any time you can break them you'll be doing well. Also guarantee a kill, dont split attatcks unless you are pretty certain youll kill it or be efficient (use your heavy rend attacks into armour/light attack into light armour). All in all cities is harder to pilot imo so you did good with that battle!
@@mysidiaimo that would depend on your list and the battleplan of the game which i guess is part of the skill expression. Im no expert for sure but i know its ok to not put yourself in hot water to win the war instead of putting all the eggs in to win the battle. So foregoing a battle tactic may suck but if you really feel you can hold thr centre or take the flanks because you'll just lose value then hold out and make up the value in the following turns. Id only take the flanks if i had two throw away units. I think playing around take the centre is better as its easier game plan but still needs some commitment like expect to be charged and how can i weather that lol
Another thought: if steelhelms are merely screens, then do not bring 20 men unit. If you bring 20, and then buff them with ward and +1 save from AW, it is for keeping objectives purpose, not for sacrificing them as a screen.
Thanks for the advice. In this case I put the 20 in the middle because the goal was to hold the entire width of the map, but as I stated that was a bad idea xD. I will follow your advice in the future.
You cannot consider 5xcavaliers as a hammer. They do literally nothing. The only reason to take 2x5 units is for take the flanks tactic which is normally the second good option for turn 1 tactic. Otherwise they are just screens. If you want them to be a hammer, then consider 10men unit.
Again thanks for the advice, I'll reinforce my cavaliers for the next battle. One important detail that I forgot to mention is that the models on the field are the ones I have. My collection is growing, but for now I need to make due with what I own!
Not a cities player myself but I’ve played against them a lot with my Stormcast and Flesh Eaters and as melee heavy armies they are a nightmare for me because of one simple thing that you can do to ruin your opponents day. RESTRAINT! Sometimes it’s worth holding off much scoring turn one if they make you go first to lure them into range of your gunline! Even if it means not using the full movement on the steelhelms to bait those aggradons or kroxigors into 20 fusiliers and a cannon!
That’s a great strategy that I will try to employ in the future! It’s tough when you are so eager to score, but I need to be more patient. I've learned so much from the comments on this video, so glad that I made it 😁
I am going to be honest. Cavaliers are a straight liability. I've only played 12 games of 4th, and 8 of those games I tried to make Cavaliers work. They dont work. They are a terrible unit. Do not take Cavaliers, make them counts as Drakespawn Knights, and then take a sorcereress somewhere in the list. They have a similar profile but better mounts and better hit/wound profile, better ability for sustained combat, becuase they WILL be in sustained combat because of their tankiness. Cavaliers are worse than useless. Some folks saying Steelhelms are bad. No. They just expect them to do damage. Their job is to screen and score battle tactics, I would take max 20 in a list, 2 squads of 10. Again, dont expect them to do damage, they are there to die and score battle tactics for cheap. I agree with your assessment about the Marshal on Griffon. He is super solid, just make sure he is supported or gets the charge.
Appreciate the comment and advice. I am going to try hard to do my best with humans for now, but I recognize that the Drakespawn are better at this time :). I really like Steelhelms, I'm getting better at using them as screens. I took 3 in most recent list and I realized as you said, didn't need that many. Would have been better to fit a Battlemage in possibly.
I completely disagree with this. Cavs are an amazing hammer when reinforced. I played a game where reinforced cavs got 8 out of 10 mortals off on the charge and nearly took Krondys out before he had a chance to fight back (he lived on from a few lucky ward saves). Just need to get the charge off. All out attack is a must for the +1 to hit on the hoofs and also need the +1 attack order off. The cav marshal makes it easier to issue that order and lets you strike first then go again with another hammer (maybe your griffon). The warforger should preemptively buff them to +2 up save before they charge if you can get it off. 30 health on a 2+ save until your next turn is insane. I've been less impressed with large shooting lists. You have the fusil major on ogor warhulk with master of ballistics which I think might be somewhat redundant. Maybe just give your warforger master of ballistics and then you can drop the war hulk and lose the cannon. Pontifex seems spicy now with the drop in points but i also like the battlemage on hurricanum especially if you are running bulwark zone. You have multiple ways to get wards even if the pontifex one is a large aura.
The next time I make a video like this I am going to take WAY more photos, with more close ups to show the action and some of the situations playing out. Otherwise I'd like to continue on the tactical side of analyzing my matches and I hope that helps other new players like me start to put together some skills! Edit: One important detail that I forgot to mention is that I don't have any other units to sub in for Cities of Sigmar. Aside from reinforcing certain units or not, I don't have the ability to change my list. I am currently building Callis and Toll and will be able to add them to my army soon.
Always love a batrep were there is a narrative tale explaining why everything is happening. 3:29
Appreciate the comment, hope I can do more like this one in the future!
I just come back to AOS after few months of hiatus and this kind of videos are what I needed. 👍🏻
Heck yeah! Welcome back.
Great format and video! I know your videos are going to keep getting better! I like the tactical analysis it’s quite good.
Couple things I noticed. Yes your alternative tactic was a better one than what you did.
Moving 400 points of units forward into chargeable territory was definitely a mistake. Damage output is much higher now and so screens are going to die and cities doesn’t really want to be in combat over multiple units because we don’t do much damage in combat.
Also you’re probably better served by a unit of 10 cavaliers rather than the 2x5. If you’re using them as a hammer. They will take buffs better in larger units.
Honestly steelhelms currently are useless imho. We’re better off just taking more fusiliers and cavaliers.
15 health on 3+ with 10” move for 10.5 points per wound vs the steel helms 9 points per wound is just plain better - I get that it’s less thematic. The only time I would bring steelhelms currently is if I hve 90 points left over in a list.
You also want to setup/build a list that can do a different battle tactic than seize the center.
Setup to do take the flanks if you can and sadly Callis and Toll are also auto includes right now as they can get you the order battle tactic of 4 corners, and take their lands almost every game and if they live can also help with take the flanks on the battleplans where that’s not possible turn 1.
Also you learned the hard way- never split fire just overkill what you need to kill.
Overall good explanation and battle report for learning sake.
I think Seraphon is a stronger army than cities overall. Human Cities in in a rough spot currently and just spamming fusiliers and cavaliers is really the best build but kind of boring and a painting challenge.
Wildercorps Hunters are also useful since they pregame move 5” so they can generally be your throw away unit to screen/grab objectives or go do take the flanks- granted they are more expensive than steelhelms so maybe you’d prefer steelhelms- they just don’t take any order resources to operate.
Please make more of these I very much enjoyed the report! More photos and up that terrain game 🤩
I really appreciate all the advice Oliver! Seriously your comment is a treasure trove of things I hadn't considered/learned yet. I do have a question for you, should I set up to do take the flanks and seize the center, so that I could do them Turn 1 & Turn 2? In that case, wouldn't I end up in a similar spot to my original plan, spreading myself pretty thin? I know now that just because I went wide doesn't mean I need to push forward on that first turn, but I'm curious what that could look like. Does that mean leaving a solitary unit of Cavaliers out on a flank for the sole purpose of that tactic? Or maybe my Marshall on Griffon? Also, I am about to build a Callis and Toll unit that I got over Christmas, so I'll be able to add that to my forces soon :D.
@ there’s a concept that I like which is: the only reason we do damage to enemies is to reduce models so they can’t score. When you think about it that way, our army is setup nicely to use cheap models to maximize our scores.
Yeah I usually setup 2 units by themselves on each flank just for the purpose of- if you give me first turn I will get a BT- and if you go first to stop that I may get the double turn and especially in shooting heavy list and cavaliers charging turn 1 and turn 2 if we’re going second, then usually that double is savage. So they want to give us first turn- the. We score 8-10pts that turn and set ourselves up to be defensive to the double turn (maybe just losing 1-2 flanking units) and then you can drop calis and toll in for 2 free BTs turn 2-3 as most armies won’t double back to kill them or you can put them so out of position it’s good for you.
Fusiliers and Cavaliers are both deceptively strong. Fortified fusiliers ignore that first point of rend and with all out defense and/or warforger they’re on 3+ saves often with a 5+ ward from orders or pontifex.
Similarly horses are also incredibly tanky. We’re deceptively defensive.
Also don’t sleep on the -1 to wound prayer
@@oliverbradeen7524 Again thank you for all the insight, it really helps. I hope other new players read these comments. If you set up 1-2 units on each flank for a BT, is the rest of your army in the center? I guess it depends on the map and where the objectives are. Which units are the ones that you put on flanks, I'm assuming cavaliers because of the movement? Although if it's the map we looked at then anyone can cross centre with an advance in formation order.
Great Battle reports and game analysis. I liked the tactical view of the deployment and movements, really helps to understand your strategy. As someone who is also collecting Humans only Cities of Sigmar, its nice to see others running humans only CoS.
Some advice on your list, units and strategy:
Humans unfortuanely suffer from hitting/wounding on 4+, which lowers their general output. However what you lack in damage, you make up for with great movement and defense from the Officar's orders Advance in formation & Hold the Line.
Foot Marshall. I don't know if you knew during the game, but you can give the relic envoy to a unit during deployment. And that unit can recieve an officar's ability from any hero on the battlefield, not just the foot marshall. Great on cavaliers.
Cavaliers. Like many other have commented, reinforced Cavaliers will serve you better than 2x5. 10x Cavaliers have decent damage on the charge with AoA and strike Them Down order. Pair them with relic envoy and they can still recieve orders without a hero having to babysit next to them. Cavaliers have great mobility and defense which makes them amazing at pinning your opponent in their deployment zone. This will force your opponent to commit resources to deal with 30 health with 3+ save, 5+ ward.
Fusiliers will always be missing out of shooting in the first round. Unless your opponent goes first. Be proactive in the first round, dictate the board with your movement from AiF, and pontifex prayer.
Command Corps. Great unit to screen the front of your fusiliers. Pair them with the foot marshall behind and 10 steelhelms infront, to protective the fusiliers. Retreat with them and replace dead models with Brazier of the Holy Flame.
Warhulk and Great Cannon. Always be shooting with them on same target to get the +1 to hit. They both have 24" long range and the Warhulk doesnt need to be fortified to shoot.
Steelhelms. I personally like steelhelms, but they imo GW need to change them to be a unit of 20 instead of 10 and make them like 160-170 points. They are good at taking exposed objectives, screening fusiliers from deepstrike. Not good in a fight. Pair well with the Marshall on Griffon.
Marshall on Griffon. Mobile melee hero that is good at catching units flat footed (slow units or units that don't want to be charged). I will pair him with 20 steelhelms and use them as a screen and 4" redeploy to protect the griffon from charges. Fun combo is to run up the steelhelms with the griffon behind. Charge with the griffon, do some damage, then use "Power Through" command to get behind the steelhelms after combat.
Pontifex. 2 chant priest that wants to always be chanting. I would try to get oath and steel off every turn on my front unit of Command Corps to make them more suvivable.
I see that you are building Callis and Toll. They are great at deepstriking behind enemy lines. Use the AiF officar order to move them 3" for a 6" charge onto an enemy wizard (Slann Starmaster)
All that said, Humans CoS will continue to struggle until we get some sort of hammer unit or better buffs that aren't just +1 to hits. Match ups with high mobility, armor saves or recursion will be a struggle, but not impossible.
Thank you for all the wonderful advice! I love the Power Through combo with the Griffon and the Callis and Toll AiF play. I am literally going through your comment taking notes right now 😁!
This is pretty useful. Migrating back to AoS after 15 years. I'd love to see more of this kind of content. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! I just uploaded the rematch between myself and the Seraphon player :D
You learned the most important lesson to always prepare for the double. Worth it.
100%. I'll take that lesson into every future match.
I'm quite beginner so take what i say with a pinch of salt... Really interesting video, you have a lot more of a plan in mind when you play whereas i tend to be a little more reactionary. Something i never considered myself but i could definitely grow as a player by planning out my tactical objectives a lot more!
I play skaven but seems cities to have a similar approach where you're looking to combine units to maximize their output. You are suffering with the cavalry a little bit for the lack of the marshall, but they can still definitely do some work for you. Remember, you're looking to make seemingly unfair combinations with your various units, you almost want to partner/group units together, keep your units of things that want to work together, together, both in terms of regiments and on the field.
Baiting out your opponents drops is a good idea, if you're going to be reacting to how they deploy (as you suggested at the end), i think that is more difficult for cities though because of how synergy reliant they are. If you're looking to be more methodical, you're probably fine dictating who goes first or 2nd by reducing drops.
(I know the cavalry bit has been over said but bear with)...as a suggestion (without list changing for the cavalry marshall)... consider combining the cavalry together, move the pontifex to free up regiment 1 and the Marshall & relic envoy to General's regiment. Reduces your drops to 3
Other bit of advice (as someone who plays against seraphon a lot) is to consider what units are a "threat" in your opponents army. This is something that comes from experience and from talking with seraphon players. Aggradons are by far their strongest unit atm so look to remove those first if you can. Next look at things with high objective score to reduce their ability to cap points (taking out/weakening the saurus warriors removes 10 objective score off the board, for not a lot of effort. The Bastiladon is a meatshield but only has 5 objective score, so it's very easy to take from but hard to kill). The best form of defense is a good offense, if you take their threats off the board before they can take yours off you will win.
Last bit of general advice: consider what will most benefit you when using command points. When the round starts you should have a rough idea as to how you already want to use them. Rally is good to steal a point by maybe getting some models back... but generally you're better off using it for more damage or movement out of your guys (covering fire, redeploy etc.), especially in the first few turns.
As far as looking at "unfair" combos goes, here are a couple of suggestions to keep in mind:
>Use the alchemic warforger to cast celestial speed on the reinforced cavalry massively increases the threat range (they can declare the charge at 12 inches, but rolling 3 dice makes it significantly more likely and forces your opponent on the back foot a little... if you run him up he can probably get the order for +1 attack on them too). This will make a first turn charge likely or make for a great counter charge if you go 2nd. After rolling the 10 d6s for mortal wounds, you're looking at getting 30-40 attacks in plus mount attacks, which you can all-out-attack with... it's going to be a gross amount of damage.
>Field Marshall, his aura for additional objective score is great, but he is squishie so keep him back to start, then move him where he can help something else cap a point on another turn. Look at taking back points with him as an option instead of trying to deny your opponent before they're even on the point.
>Command Corps, look at keeping them closer to your guns, ideally somewhere between the guns and the frontline. Worst case they serve as a charge block, best case, you get to "covering fire" with a unit of Fusiliers AND a great cannon. You can also use them to reploy a couple of units instead of just one, which could have saved your fieldmarshall AND the steelhelms. This unit is more of a support piece.
> Consider keeping your fusiliers on a home objective and using "Consecrate their land" on it to give them a ward save against spells/ranged attacks.
> Take but don't hold. I could be wrong with this last one, but you're looking more to score with Cities than deny your opponent things. It's often easier to take a point off an opponent than hold one against them. If it's a choice between keeping some dudes alive or your opponent taking a point... maybe let them take the point, buff those dudes and then send them in to get it back. Redeploying backwards will force your opponent to make a longer charge AND bring them in range of your guns/counter charges. Especially if you're running the Griffon nearby!
This all said, your opponent played a BRUTAL game! They made really smart choices! Looking forward to seeing the next batrep!!!
Hey DruidicPose, really appreciate the comment and all the advice you shared. I learned a lot and I am looking forward to my next match so I can try some of it out. About the regiments, even though you can include more heroes into regiments now as Freeguild Veterans, you can still have max 1 in a regiment. Pontifex Zenestra and the Alchemite Warforger cannot take Freeguild Veterans so then I have: Marshall on Griffon, Marshall with Envoy, and the Fusil Major, so no matter what I'll need that extra regiment anyway.
I am going to reinforce my Cavaliers though, and my next list will have Callis and Toll in it (just got them for Christmas!). I'll swap out the Marshall on Griffon for Callis and Toll and then I can fit a Cavalier Marshall in as well. I really like the take but don't hold advice, I hadn't really considered that. I'll test it out in my next match. Thanks again for all the advice, it's so helpful as I don't find this type of advice online anywhere when I go looking.
Really great video! I don't have too much advice to give on this, since it's been too long since I played, but I think the unit of 20 Steelhelms might be a bit if a trap. But thats because I'd rather have 3 units to screen the front, and leave the Command Corps in the back to orotect the Marshall and use their ability to minipulate the amount of commands you use in a turn. But that's just me.
I agree regarding the 20 Steelhelms, playing AoS is tough because you need to just try things to learn, but then you use a game up doing that.
@mysidia Yeah, but that's part of the process, I'm sure you've got plenty more games ahead of you to learn even more.
Great video and that was a good match! I love this style of video. Feels like TSN. Next time we play, I'll help you take photos and I'll send you my plan/strategy, so you can add that too, if you want!
An idea for tactics, I like how you are setting up one one side. I think having your griffin, as it is mobile, hiding behind your army until my charge, as well as having your cavaliers on the far side would be pretty smart, as then you can really utilize your charge. Your griffin can then flank and charge whoever I used to get into your steelhelms. Also, why not split up your steelhelms x20 if you are already having a single unit regiment? They die so easily anyways, but if you had a second, you can have another unit push further up into my side of the territory, denying me a charge and giving yourself the opportunity to take the seize the flanks battle tactics. Also, since my Slann is pretty stationary, having a screen from whence you can fly out your griffin to attack my main wizards could be devastating to me.
Also, for myself, I should have used my redeploy both rounds. I could have pushed my saurus warriors up and allowed to them to attack in turn 2
Thanks buddy, it will definitely be easier if we are both taking photos :D. I've gotta think about splitting up that reinforced Steelhelm unit, it's just so nice for the whole thing to receive the Alchemite Warforger buff, but I think as someone else commented, I only need to do that if they really need to stick to an objective.
PS You're right, I forgot to mention how your Saurus Warriors never got involved. Kind of sad you beat me without using two of your units :'(. But I put up more of a fight next time.
@mysidia not really sad. I got a double turn. I honestly don't think they're very fair
@@Polak966 Its true. There is a world where you go first and I get a double turn and you just take two rounds of shooting, quite unfair. But I agree with another commenter that I spread out too thin and really was set up to be smashed by a double turn
Just finished watching! Hope you guys had a ton of fun fielding your minis and rolling some dice.
So seize the centre most of the time is a trap. Unless you have alot of chaff or strong defence or wanna mosh pit the middle, i think its worth to give up the tactic. Cities really wants to play as a castle so you could sieze the centre and position your castle at that location? But yeah you are spot on you were spread too thin. Its also just learning and using what models you have. Seraphon have strong scrolls but they are expensive so any time you can break them you'll be doing well. Also guarantee a kill, dont split attatcks unless you are pretty certain youll kill it or be efficient (use your heavy rend attacks into armour/light attack into light armour).
All in all cities is harder to pilot imo so you did good with that battle!
Appreciate it Midgar! So would you say Take the Flanks is a good Turn 1 tactic. Or should I skip scoring a tactic entirely if I go first?
@@mysidiaimo that would depend on your list and the battleplan of the game which i guess is part of the skill expression.
Im no expert for sure but i know its ok to not put yourself in hot water to win the war instead of putting all the eggs in to win the battle. So foregoing a battle tactic may suck but if you really feel you can hold thr centre or take the flanks because you'll just lose value then hold out and make up the value in the following turns.
Id only take the flanks if i had two throw away units. I think playing around take the centre is better as its easier game plan but still needs some commitment like expect to be charged and how can i weather that lol
@@Midgar88 got it! I appreciate that advice. I do have a cheeky plan for seize the center that I want to try out. 😄
@mysidia hell yeah! Bet you'll have some great ideas!
Another thought: if steelhelms are merely screens, then do not bring 20 men unit. If you bring 20, and then buff them with ward and +1 save from AW, it is for keeping objectives purpose, not for sacrificing them as a screen.
Thanks for the advice. In this case I put the 20 in the middle because the goal was to hold the entire width of the map, but as I stated that was a bad idea xD. I will follow your advice in the future.
You cannot consider 5xcavaliers as a hammer. They do literally nothing. The only reason to take 2x5 units is for take the flanks tactic which is normally the second good option for turn 1 tactic. Otherwise they are just screens. If you want them to be a hammer, then consider 10men unit.
This guy Cavaliers
Again thanks for the advice, I'll reinforce my cavaliers for the next battle. One important detail that I forgot to mention is that the models on the field are the ones I have. My collection is growing, but for now I need to make due with what I own!
@@mysidia yeah this is the hardest part about cities- that and painting/production meta.
@@oliverbradeen7524 100%!
Not a cities player myself but I’ve played against them a lot with my Stormcast and Flesh Eaters and as melee heavy armies they are a nightmare for me because of one simple thing that you can do to ruin your opponents day. RESTRAINT! Sometimes it’s worth holding off much scoring turn one if they make you go first to lure them into range of your gunline! Even if it means not using the full movement on the steelhelms to bait those aggradons or kroxigors into 20 fusiliers and a cannon!
That’s a great strategy that I will try to employ in the future! It’s tough when you are so eager to score, but I need to be more patient. I've learned so much from the comments on this video, so glad that I made it 😁
I am going to be honest. Cavaliers are a straight liability. I've only played 12 games of 4th, and 8 of those games I tried to make Cavaliers work. They dont work. They are a terrible unit.
Do not take Cavaliers, make them counts as Drakespawn Knights, and then take a sorcereress somewhere in the list. They have a similar profile but better mounts and better hit/wound profile, better ability for sustained combat, becuase they WILL be in sustained combat because of their tankiness.
Cavaliers are worse than useless.
Some folks saying Steelhelms are bad. No. They just expect them to do damage. Their job is to screen and score battle tactics, I would take max 20 in a list, 2 squads of 10. Again, dont expect them to do damage, they are there to die and score battle tactics for cheap.
I agree with your assessment about the Marshal on Griffon. He is super solid, just make sure he is supported or gets the charge.
Appreciate the comment and advice. I am going to try hard to do my best with humans for now, but I recognize that the Drakespawn are better at this time :). I really like Steelhelms, I'm getting better at using them as screens. I took 3 in most recent list and I realized as you said, didn't need that many. Would have been better to fit a Battlemage in possibly.
I completely disagree with this. Cavs are an amazing hammer when reinforced. I played a game where reinforced cavs got 8 out of 10 mortals off on the charge and nearly took Krondys out before he had a chance to fight back (he lived on from a few lucky ward saves). Just need to get the charge off. All out attack is a must for the +1 to hit on the hoofs and also need the +1 attack order off. The cav marshal makes it easier to issue that order and lets you strike first then go again with another hammer (maybe your griffon). The warforger should preemptively buff them to +2 up save before they charge if you can get it off. 30 health on a 2+ save until your next turn is insane.
I've been less impressed with large shooting lists. You have the fusil major on ogor warhulk with master of ballistics which I think might be somewhat redundant. Maybe just give your warforger master of ballistics and then you can drop the war hulk and lose the cannon. Pontifex seems spicy now with the drop in points but i also like the battlemage on hurricanum especially if you are running bulwark zone. You have multiple ways to get wards even if the pontifex one is a large aura.