I've come across a lot of videos about gain staging but yours is indeed the first one that is really easy to understand rather than making the concept more confusing. Thanks for sharing. This is really helpful.
Absolut! Also die gamechanger Info für mich war deine Aussage "beginne immer beim Sourcematerial" hab ich in keinem anderen Video gesehen weder gehört!! Deine Videos sparen mir wirklich Zeit und Nerven bzw. habe jez mehr Quality time für meine Projekte, also bis zur nächsten Wissenslücke zumindest.
Great video! Once I learned proper gain staging, my mixes not only sounded clearer, but when it came to mastering I found I could get them much louder.
No questions right now, but I want to say THANK YOU. this is the exact tutorial I have been looking for. I knew I had bad gain staging habits but I didn't know what exactly they were or how to correct them and you've just told me what they were and the solution. I'm so glad my much more experienced friend turned me on to your channel. Thanks for making your experience available to us for free. you are doing god's work! :D
I’m really pleased that you cover how gain affects the plug-ins and how to adjust accordingly. The examples and process are really clear. I am looking forward to more content from you.
Great video! I've watched a TON of videos on gain staging and no one ever talks about gain staging using vsts and sims. I've struggled with gain staging when using amp sims a lot, trying to hit the fader with a good signal level that gets boosted after the sim is added, but this put everything into focus concisely. Thank you!
For me it‘s always these four steps that work perfect without any unwanted clipping or distortion: 1.) Make sure the source signal of every channel is below 0db so no plugin causes distortion in the internal calculations (-6db peak should be fine to avoid fast transients.) 2.) Level match each plugin so you can hear what the plugin is actually doing when bypassing it and the level stays consistent. 3.) Set the fader of the Kick channel so the output level of this channel shows -10db at peak. (This sets a reference point) 4.) Mix everything around that kick. This way the incoming signal level of the master channel will normally go between -4 and -6 db and has enough headroom for the mastering stage. Nothing else needed. Keeping the incoming level around -6 to -10db has also the advantage that the faders stay in the upper region and can be better finetuned while mixing since the fader scale is logarithmic.
25 minutes well spent, thank you! That last bit about leaving the faders at 0 until the very end of the mixing process is such incredibly good advice. The separation of volume automation and overall mix levels is something I sometimes see get completely overlooked/ignored in other online videos, where I see automation of the faders being used instead...that (to me) would just make my life more difficult than it would otherwise need to be.
Nice one, congrats on having the attention span for that ;-) It's... not very common these days. But some topics just require that in-depth discussion and gain staging for sure is one of them.
Your video is by far the clearest advice I have received about gain staging (after many videos and podcasts) because you are so precise every step of the way! I'm really looking forward to applying these steps to my projects. Thank you! 🙏
Peak metering is obviously crucial in the digital domain, but I still prefer using a VU meter for two reasons. A) Gain staging discipline, and B) I've noticed that when using guitar pedals, less gain provides a more desirable tonal ballpark. So, I experimented with the Ableton Pedal, applying significantly less input gain, and it reacted similarly to hardware pedals. I know that -18 dB might seem excessive for most plugins, but it doesn't hurt either. When recording my hardware synths, the signal-to-noise ratio is excellent even below -18 dB. If not, I use a gate, but increasing the input gain wouldn't solve this problem. By the way, love your videos! They're just what the doctor ordered-straight to the point.
I have to say this is easily the best tutorial i've come across after weeks of trying to wrap my head around it. SO clear and concise. thank you so much sir! it deserves far more views.... for now, i'm just glad to have the information for myself though hehe. thanks!
Only just subbed to this channel from a more recent video - your teaching is incredibly smooth and you make sure we know not only what something is doing but why it is doing it and how to change that to improve it. 22k subs is criminally low. Great work man.
Thanks alot!!! I've been looking so many videos that don't make any sense😂 Some even say gain staging is a myth and so on... I tried this and everything soundet really good. I also found flaws in my mixes that I did not hear before trying this!
I did like that you suggested gain staging starting with the faders at unity and adjust the source. I had another instructor say that your faders should be between -6dB to -12dB, but then I had an issue with one of my projects where the track was still hot and I couldn't figure it out until someone else suggested looking at the source of the sound and start there. It just makes sense that you should always be starting with your source.
WOW, Phillip, this was such a brilliant and informative video. I had read various articles about gain staging but it failed to really resonate with me. This video has made everything perfectly clear. Thank you very much!!
Excellent tutorial. I do have a question though; I use complete drum sets and instruments for my recordings. For the drum sets particularly: is each component used on the drums adjusted the same way, place fader in the "0db" position, then lower the volume thru each component affects area. i.e, hi-hats, snare, kick, toms, etc. Thanks. I also welcome any comments or feedback.
Chapeau. Learning with you is just pure joy. Just discovered you channel and watched four videos this aftternoon about some specific topics where i struggle over and over. Thanks a million. :) Grüße aus salzburg.
I only recently came across your channel and every video is quality. You explain each topic well and I am glad you also elaborate on what NOT to do. Very, very, very helpful!
Awesome info, thank you! I'll try the tips in my next session. I like that it is very simplified since I don't like delving into mixing/technical sound territory. But when it is simple and quick - worth it :)
thanks man, all makes perfect sense from analogue days but it is really good to see it in action and witness the effect of a well gain staged loop in ableton. you use a lot of fancy plugins, might have to check some of those out.
Okay... I have to overthink the kind of way I am working on (hard dance) music. 😅 Thanks for the opportunity and the input. I work with 0 dB in the channels at first and adjust the level of the instrument inside the plugin. If I would like to have a more compact sound I use compression and I always work with Limiter and Clipping Tools. Not in each channel but in those channel which are critically (Kick, Drums). The result is a very compact and hard hitting sound. Not perfect, I am not professional as we see, but... it worked for me. Now I am interesseted to try Gain Staging like in your tutorial and see what it will do to my mix, because I am still learning. Thanks, man. 🧡
You don't need most of this in digital land; especially if you are using 24-bit and certainly when using 32-bit export. Most DAWs can handle 32-bit float files where clipping occurs at some humongous positive dB value, and not at unity (i.e. 0dB). Your full-scale is more centred around the 0dB if anything, so anything reasonably higher than 0dB is absolutely fine. As a result, all channels (including the master fader) can simply be lowered down to below 0dB to achieve two things: 1) To export to a 16-bit master 2) To ensure your DAC (from your audio interface to your speakers) can handle the range and hence listen to the mix with no distortion. When gain staging may matter is on each individual channel's chain. Many plugins have some sort of optimum input level value often documented in the manual. Depending on what each plugin does, you may not want to drive it too hard, regardless. That does depend on the plugin's function and what you are trying to achieve. In your example, you are driving something way too hard inadvertently defeating the object of what you want to acomplish in the first place. This and other similar examples are common sense and must be avoided. Besides that, gain staging is completely pointless nowadays.
Technically all correct ;) but you won’t believe how wrecked people’s sessions are under the hood (plugins driven way to hot, like shown here) and they’re wondering where in the chain the distortion comes from. I’ve seen it way too many times in real client projects and the workflow here is an easy step-by-step system. Don’t forget, many beginners have zero clue of 95% of what you’re writing in this comment. So I believe it’s much smarter to establish good production habits early on. Thanks for contributing, I dig it!
first of all, I think it is one of the most informative videos about gain staging. How does it sound to you if you do the following in your mix: You complete your mix without actually setting a limit of -6 to -12 on the sound source (we just kept the same level of intensity in the effects rack ,dynamics etc )At the end of the mix you set all the faders to unity gain and with a utility now you set the volume . For example , if in the channel of kick we had set the fader to -7.8 so that it would peak at -12dbfs, at the end of the mix since we have already placed this fader to unity gain and now with "utility"turn left to -7.8 .So the fader now is in untity gain but now we can do more careful actions in every channel, since the more you reduce the fader, the more drastic changes we would have because of the logarithmic increase.
Philip, thank you for this advice and great video. The part at the end about leaving faders at 0 finally clicked for me - Now using a mix tool at the end of each chain to complete my process rather my instinctual desire to grab a fader. As far as the rest of the video - invaluable information. I have never thought about adjusting the gain level at the actual plugin. Love it and will apply to every mix moving forward. You just gained another Subscriber [No pun intended]
Thanks so much, that’s great to hear! If you have specific topics you’d like to see videos about on the channel then let me know. I’m very open to ideas!
14:51 This is misleading: overshooting 0dBFS here (or at any intermediate point of your signal chain) is not what results in the unwanted clipping that you describe. So even if the plugin's GUI shows some flashy ominous red warning, no clipping happens at this specific point in the signal chain. That's because your Ableton session and all your plugins are working with a 32bit floating-point signal, which can represent signals way above 0dBFS and therefore gives your signal a virtually infinite headroom. That kind of unwanted clipping (and thus distortion) will only happen when a bit depth conversion happens, ie. when the signal is sent to your soundcard or rendered to a lower bit depth audio file. Quite notably, you can have all your tracks summing way over 0dBFS, and it won't clip as long as you apply gain reduction on the master bus before the signal goes "out" of your DAW. So yes, obviously there is no point in purposefully mixing at like 200dBFS only to then apply a 200dBFS reduction on the master bus, but it's important to pinpoint where in the signal chain distortion may or may not occur, so that when you do have an unwanted distortion you can more efficiently find out where it's coming from.
Woooah i did wrong for so long…thank you , it’s very clear about gain staging, the only thing that i don’t like about having a utility volume tool to automate is that it’s not convenient when creating tracks , the faders are so quick access…
Wow, this helps alot. All the tracks in project sounds cleaner and more dynamic. Finally when I open exported track in Audition I can see very nice curves.
Thank you!! I seen other videos on this matter. I have been told to use a utility plugin at the end of the effect chain of every channl to set the right level. Now I understand this is wrong.
I use Vital and like Serum, it comes in hot!! I am new to mixing and mastering and this is the first vid I've seen that tells you to adjust the gain at the source. Thanks for that tip! Quick question, what do you want your gain level (peak level) in the master to be before the mastering process?
Great question! Most resources will tell you “-6dB”. But that’s a myth, there’s no reason for that specific peak level. Especially if the music is very dynamic and only has a few peaks at that level and most of the music is far below it. So in a nutshell: everything below 0dBFs is fine, and in the days of 32bit float processing you can theoretically also handle higher peaks. That being said, I would go for peaks a bit below that (between -6 and -1dBFs) and keep proper gain staging in the mastering chain so you don’t mess it up in the last step. As always, don’t be religious about it and try to listen critically and make a judgment based on what you hear :) I hope that helps!
@@pickyourselfofficial that helps. I've seen hundreds of vid in the past 8 months so right now I am trying to sort thru the bad advice and absorb the good. I'm producing future bass so I've heard totally different ways to mix bass and kick sounds.
wow, this transformed my mixing, even though i got a lot more work to do, it helped me understand clipping on the main source of the sound, and going to the source, is the way to go, like you said :D.
Great to see how plugins can benefit from lower signals, because the DAW makers often tell you proudly that nothing can clip inside because of using floating point values everywhere until the final master out conversion.
Thank you and great video, you've explained this really well! I have a question, what if the plugin does not have an output or input gain adjustment? For example Ableton Live's Overdrive, what would be your method to to resolve the gain staging with those type of plugins?
Put an utility after each plugin/effect that doesn't have one. Watch something about linear and non linear effects in Ableton. That should help you out also
Why did you gain stage with your plugins engaged? Also, I noticed that you did not use a VU meter plugin to gain to gain stage your tracks. Most videos on gain staging that I have watched they gained staged with a VU meter and the plugins bypassed. I am confused. However, I like your way of adjusting the output of the plugins. Kindly explain why you do it this way.
Great video! When you say this mix is far from perfect, what exactly do you mean? I feel like people often say that but never show a "perfect" mix. Is it still missing sounds in certain frequency bands or do you mean it's not fine-tuned perfectly?
I've seen so much conflicting advice about gain staging in the digital world but this all makes sense to me. Going to be trying this on my current project. Thanks!
@@pickyourselfofficial actually I do have a question. I tend to use busses for drums, synths, pads, vocals and FX. Do I set those to zero at first too? Many thanks.
@@thestoicscientist yes, this applies to all channels in your project. And to be honest, once you gain experience you don't have to be super strict anymore about all of that. But I find it helps producers who aren't getting consistent results yet in their mixes and masters. Just establish a few good habits, but don't be too religious about them either.
Great explanation with good examples. Exactly the info I was looking for :) Now I’ll open the daw and try this out, thank you for sharing the knowledge ✌️
A very good video! Thanks a lot, Philip. But I personally don't like the idea to save the same volume level after each audio effect. It's very tedious to align the volume many times when you actively sound designing with many plugins. The same volume level isn't mandatory. We just need enough headroom of the input level for every plugin. Let's assume: - You have a chain of audio effects A, B, C. - The volume input level for A has enough headroom. - The volume input level for B has enough headroom. - The volume input level for C is too loud. So you just need to decrease the volume between B, C. There are three methods: - Decrease the output level of B. - Decrease the input level of C. - If your plugins don't have input/output level parameters, you can just decrease the level between them with an Utility Plugin (U). The chain will become A, B, U, C. In simple words: if the volume level became too loud, just decrease it right in the bus. That's it. Similary, if the level is too low, you can increase it with an Utility.
Great input! Here's my take on it: whatever decreases friction in the process and INCREASES your ability to make quick decisions is good. So if this workflow does that for you, keep doing it. For everyone who's maybe reading this, I want to point out one detail: The output stages of certain plugins also have a "sound". So just keep that in mind. If you're using a utility, you limit yourself from making active use of that character. It's a detail, nothing more. And probably not relevant for 99% of producers out there ;-)
@@pickyourselfofficial You're right. VST plugins are just black boxes for music producers. Only developers know how every knob works. BTW I've just compared the sound of a sample without processing and with 10 pairs of utilities (-12db, +12db). And I haven't hear the difference😄. So utility is just a technical way to fix the volume without any character changes
@@pickyourselfofficial The "telephone game" effect maybe? Whatever. Just glad you made this and I found it! If this is how you normally break it down, I'ma sub for life! Thanks again!
Hey Philip, thanks for all the amazing advice in your videos! Just wondering, you mention that there are many problematic TH-cam tutorials out there. Could you recommend other TH-cam channels that you believe are giving good advice/tutorials? :)
Yeah I’m actually planning a video about lesser-known channels that are worth checking out. No exact date when it’s gonna happen but it’s on my content list for sure :)
This was great. Explains why my masters keep clipping. I was following the wrong advise for years and now I know what to change. I was gain staging to 0db with faders at infinity. I should have been having them at -12 to -6 db. And i was doing this before adding effects and stuff. yes Im an ameture and learning, but now my mixes and masters will sound much better and less mud. Thank you very much.
Excellent presentation, thank you. I have been doing this since 1961, when we built our own gear from scratch. I have been gain staging in the traditional manner ever since then and have never believed in this -18 dB nonsense. Why mix 78 dBs dynamic range when you have 96 dBs dynamic range available ? It is important to stress that signals typically ADD and for every channel you open, the other line faders have to be pulled back slightly. Danke schön, Bill P.
Thank you for your video. How do I go about doing gain staging after I done the modulation and expressions on my tracks? Is gain staging supposed to be done before the automation?
Thanks for this guide! It helps me a lot! Do you have a guide on how to properly use that limiter? Or could you please consider making that? Thanks in advance!
Wow, your channel is awesome bro. You are making it so much simplier to understand. But im wondering why ppl say to compensate the gain reduction, and give more output, what is that all about? how do i do that correctly if that is what im supposed to do? Thanks again man, you are awesome.
Thanks, that means a lot! To your question: if a compressor for example reduces the gain 3dB, you add 3dB at the output gain stage of that compressor (often called make up gain). You don’t have to be super precise but it’s helpful to keep it in the ballpark of what you’ve taken away. I hope that helps!
yeah they are probably telling you to match the volume after the plugin to whatever the volume was before the plugin. That is the best way to A/B a plugin and hear what it is actually doing to the sound. Our ears are easily fooled by volume so if the volume is lower after the plugin then we will think the change we made was bad... if the volume is higher after the plugin we will think the change was good. Only way to really know is to match the levels of the before & after :)
@@musiclover-r9m the big issue always is that it introduces friction and takes you out of flow state. So with more experience, you need less “perfect” gain staging.
For Reaper users: You don't need to worry about that last tip "putting a gain utility on each channel as the last plugin". In Reaper you have the option to do volume automation AND be able to use the fader to control the level.
Great video!! What level do you look for on the master buss? Just try not to clip? Little side note…the Saturator preset “A Bit Warmer” is a 1-1 emulation of the Sonnox Inflator. Idk if it was intentional but they Null during testing. There’s a few videos on here if you’re wondering.
Thanks! Everything below 0dBFs is fine. Too quiet is not ideal, so I’d say a healthy mix peaks somewhere between -12 and 0dBfs in most parts. The strict “you have to submit a pre master at -6dB” requirement is absolute nonsense from a technical standpoint.
@@pickyourselfofficial Awesome to keep in mind! I just mixed a 3 track e.p. for a client and I started at -10db on the kick, and by the time I got done bringing everything in I was floating at that -3db to 0db area. This was also on an indie fusion rock track, where the drums were done in midi than converted to audio, the synths were played with a midi keyboard, and than live guitars and vox. So quite a bit of dynamics. Do you use Clippers at any stage of your mixing? If so, I feel that explaining how you use them, might pair well with this video.
@@travesdymusic ahhh nice, perfect! Yeah clippers are interesting. It’s a hot topic right now but so many producers are using them in ways that make things worse instead of better. So yes, I guess I definitely need to make a video on how to use clipping properly. In my mixes and masters, they do play a role but they’re as transparent as it gets (unless I use them for intentional saturation on kicks, snares, claps, etc.). But in most cases, I use them so that you don’t notice them but still get some extra headroom.
Question for you.. Not sure if you do this it not, but can I send you a song that I did, to review and let me know what’s wrong and what needs to be fixed? Totally cool if you can’t, just wanted to ask. Have a great day!!
Broooo thank you so much, this is sooo good, just Did it with my recent session. It's soo much cleaner, thanks. Is there a video about how I go from mixing to mastering like about the gain lvls, do I mix with master 0db, convert to wav and master then with -6db. Or do I mix with a master on -6db wav it and ?aster then with master 0db?
Indeed, gain staging is an important topic and your video make sense to me! I have a question: so when we mixed everything and make a rough mastering, for example, using only limiter what volume level should I achieve? On your video I can see -8LUFS but how loud is it in relation to other tracks? Does it depend on the music genre? Can you help me to understand this?
It absolutely depends on the genre. Just try to be in the sweet spot where your track sounds as “dense” as you find useful without distorting or pumping like crazy. Bring in a couple of reference tracks in the same genre and start comparing. Here’s a video I made on that topic: th-cam.com/video/dXgGff9En9E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=XoJRd5l5BrF4e0Ty
This is an excellent tutorial and technique on gain staging. If I could afford all the expensive plugins it may be useful for me. I will just have to utilize the plugins I have in my DAW to accomplish this if I can.
Thanks so much for the great feedback! Don’t worry about the plugins. They are not your bottleneck at all. Remember, I offer mixing and mastering as a service and so I have to be on top of everything that’s available. But the only thing that makes 95% of a difference is ears + skill. Your DAW plugins are great in most cases. It used to be different a few years ago but the developers have really improved a lot on the stock tools.
At what point would you do this? At the beginning of introducing each track or at the end? I imagine you could run into issues with ruining the groove/mix if you do it after yeah?
Are you using the solid green bar or the see through bar as the marker to gain -12Db off ? I say the see through as these are the peak sounds. You neglected to mention this. Very important information missed. But yea only ever automate the gain plugin never the faders .
I don't think opening with the analog discussion helps clarify anything. Unless you were to include the one gain staging habit that applies to both analog and digital. I think it would be better just to focus on gain staging in digital from the get-go. In which case I think bit depth, oversampling, and dither probably all have a place in the discussion. The one gain staging habit that analog and digital both have in common is "know your gear". I definitely have digital compressors that I can't set the threshold low enough to trigger on quiet recordings. And I have digital compressors that are the opposite. Threshold is an easy way to see what the plugin is expecting. Other plugins it's a little harder to tell what they want and some testing and verification is going to be necessary. But when you know your gear, and you know what it wants, and you know how it acts when you give it this or that, you more frequently reach for the correct tool then the incorrect one.
This is an awesome tip. The main problem I have with it is: I'm working with Ableton in my spare time. I'm 50 years old, and so I don't think that I will make it into the music industry. So, I will keep things simple. This means that I will make music using the stock plugins in Ableton. Of course, I've invested in Serum and added the Ozone imager besides the free version of Vital and also added Surge XT for variation. But is it really required to use Fab Filter this and Fab Filter that and all this stuff? The development of such plugins is expensive for the developers, and so they are always premium. I won't bring all of my salary from my job into stores to buy plugins. So, I would be highly interested in such a process using just stock plugins. For example, I didn't see the benefit of using a premium EQ instead of the Ableton EQ. Or I didn't see the benefit of using other limiters. Remember, I will continue making music using the stock plugins. I can imagine that there are a lot of people outside with a comparable setup: They won't make music for a living, but they want to make music that sounds great with keeping things simple. Don't get me wrong, this video is amazing. I've learnt a lot. And I see that you know what you talk about. This is the reason why I've subscribed to your channel. I will try to follow your tips when I open Ableton the next time. Maybe there is a good way to go through the process with just the stock plugins. (BTW, this is no "rant" or critic or so, just a comment. Should I have written it in German? 😂) This is what I do when I make music: soundcloud.com/henning-uhle/the-spiral
Hi Henning! Don't worry, you absolutely DON'T need all the crazy plugins I'm showing here. This was just to add some diversity ;-) Fabfilter tools are great for demonstration purposes, so it makes a lot of sense in tutorials (and yes, they also are very well developed). The Limiter is definitely worth the investment (check Black Friday deals now). Apart from that, you can get away with Ableton stock plugins, no worries.
@@pickyourselfofficial Great, thank you very much for your reply. Yes, that makes sense. Maybe with a bit more experience (I've switched to Ableton in May after using "BandLab" (Google it) for a few years), I'll invest a bit more. But for now, you know the prices for Ableton and Serum and such stuff. That's why I'll continue for now with the stock things. But we don't know what the future may bring.
FREE Guide - Learn how to finish at least one great-sounding song per month:
pickyourself.com/framework
You are the first person who explained this process with 100% clarity. Thank you Bro.
just wanna say the same 👌
Big respect for your teaching abilities, you know what you're doing, man! Salute! 💯
I've come across a lot of videos about gain staging but yours is indeed the first one that is really easy to understand rather than making the concept more confusing. Thanks for sharing. This is really helpful.
This is so great to hear! Exactly why I’ve made this video!
totally agree. great work again.
Agreed
Absolut!
Also die gamechanger Info für mich war deine Aussage "beginne immer beim Sourcematerial" hab ich in keinem anderen Video gesehen weder gehört!!
Deine Videos sparen mir wirklich Zeit und Nerven bzw. habe jez mehr Quality time für meine Projekte, also bis zur nächsten Wissenslücke zumindest.
Great video! Once I learned proper gain staging, my mixes not only sounded clearer, but when it came to mastering I found I could get them much louder.
No questions right now, but I want to say THANK YOU. this is the exact tutorial I have been looking for. I knew I had bad gain staging habits but I didn't know what exactly they were or how to correct them and you've just told me what they were and the solution. I'm so glad my much more experienced friend turned me on to your channel. Thanks for making your experience available to us for free. you are doing god's work! :D
This truly means a lot, thank you! And cheers to your friend for introducing you to the channel, I really appreciate it :)
Really good explanation and demonstration. I also appreciate your clarifying that digital plugins usually don't have a "sweet spot."
I’m really pleased that you cover how gain affects the plug-ins and how to adjust accordingly. The examples and process are really clear. I am looking forward to more content from you.
Great video! I've watched a TON of videos on gain staging and no one ever talks about gain staging using vsts and sims. I've struggled with gain staging when using amp sims a lot, trying to hit the fader with a good signal level that gets boosted after the sim is added, but this put everything into focus concisely. Thank you!
For me it‘s always these four steps that work perfect without any unwanted clipping or distortion:
1.) Make sure the source signal of every channel is below 0db so no plugin causes distortion in the internal calculations (-6db peak should be fine to avoid fast transients.)
2.) Level match each plugin so you can hear what the plugin is actually doing when bypassing it and the level stays consistent.
3.) Set the fader of the Kick channel so the output level of this channel shows -10db at peak. (This sets a reference point)
4.) Mix everything around that kick. This way the incoming signal level of the master channel will normally go between -4 and -6 db and has enough headroom for the mastering stage.
Nothing else needed. Keeping the incoming level around -6 to -10db has also the advantage that the faders stay in the upper region and can be better finetuned while mixing since the fader scale is logarithmic.
25 minutes well spent, thank you!
That last bit about leaving the faders at 0 until the very end of the mixing process is such incredibly good advice. The separation of volume automation and overall mix levels is something I sometimes see get completely overlooked/ignored in other online videos, where I see automation of the faders being used instead...that (to me) would just make my life more difficult than it would otherwise need to be.
Nice one, congrats on having the attention span for that ;-) It's... not very common these days. But some topics just require that in-depth discussion and gain staging for sure is one of them.
Exactly that’s why they call them faders. We fade just a little bit to make fine tune adjustments.
yes this is the way!
So automation of volume on the timeline for different sections of a song would be automated with utility plugin instead correct?
Your video is by far the clearest advice I have received about gain staging (after many videos and podcasts) because you are so precise every step of the way! I'm really looking forward to applying these steps to my projects. Thank you! 🙏
That comment made my day, I really appreciate the great feedback! Have fun implementing the advice :)
you're a very good teacher and I'm going to be going through all of your videos
Smart move
Peak metering is obviously crucial in the digital domain, but I still prefer using a VU meter for two reasons. A) Gain staging discipline, and B) I've noticed that when using guitar pedals, less gain provides a more desirable tonal ballpark. So, I experimented with the Ableton Pedal, applying significantly less input gain, and it reacted similarly to hardware pedals. I know that -18 dB might seem excessive for most plugins, but it doesn't hurt either. When recording my hardware synths, the signal-to-noise ratio is excellent even below -18 dB. If not, I use a gate, but increasing the input gain wouldn't solve this problem.
By the way, love your videos! They're just what the doctor ordered-straight to the point.
Yep. 100% agreed! And thanks for the kind words, I truly appreciate that!
So you record your synths at -18 dB from the get go?
@@Paisleyface333 Hi. If i am using more analog processors in the chain or even the HW pedals, then yes.
I have to say this is easily the best tutorial i've come across after weeks of trying to wrap my head around it. SO clear and concise. thank you so much sir! it deserves far more views.... for now, i'm just glad to have the information for myself though hehe. thanks!
Only just subbed to this channel from a more recent video - your teaching is incredibly smooth and you make sure we know not only what something is doing but why it is doing it and how to change that to improve it. 22k subs is criminally low. Great work man.
Thank you so much. This means a lot! 💯🙌🏻
This comment really shows me that the right kind of people are finding this channel. Thanks a lot!
Thanks alot!!! I've been looking so many videos that don't make any sense😂 Some even say gain staging is a myth and so on... I tried this and everything soundet really good. I also found flaws in my mixes that I did not hear before trying this!
Thank you, that means a lot! So good to hear that you got results from this workflow.
I did like that you suggested gain staging starting with the faders at unity and adjust the source. I had another instructor say that your faders should be between -6dB to -12dB, but then I had an issue with one of my projects where the track was still hot and I couldn't figure it out until someone else suggested looking at the source of the sound and start there. It just makes sense that you should always be starting with your source.
Exactly! :)
This is the best explanation for gain staging that I have seen..
WOW, Phillip, this was such a brilliant and informative video. I had read various articles about gain staging but it failed to really resonate with me. This video has made everything perfectly clear. Thank you very much!!
That means the world to me, I’m happy it was helpful.
Thanks for this . Would you showing us ( in later video or blog post ) the gain staging workflow which including several Mix bus ?
Excellent tutorial. I do have a question though; I use complete drum sets and instruments for my recordings. For the drum sets particularly: is each component used on the drums adjusted the same way, place fader in the "0db" position, then lower the volume thru each component affects area. i.e, hi-hats, snare, kick, toms, etc. Thanks. I also welcome any comments or feedback.
Very helpful and thank you. My mixing is one of the areas where I need the most work. I will try this tonight!
Gr8 stuff, clarity in your overview and demystifying. 👾
Chapeau. Learning with you is just pure joy. Just discovered you channel and watched four videos this aftternoon about some specific topics where i struggle over and over. Thanks a million. :) Grüße aus salzburg.
Huge thx , overlooked this and paid the price. Adjusted as shown and man does it make a difference.
I only recently came across your channel and every video is quality. You explain each topic well and I am glad you also elaborate on what NOT to do. Very, very, very helpful!
Your comment means a lot to me, thank you. I truly appreciate the feedback!
Awesome info, thank you! I'll try the tips in my next session. I like that it is very simplified since I don't like delving into mixing/technical sound territory. But when it is simple and quick - worth it :)
That’s so great to hear! I’m myself not too strict about it either. But being agnostic is also not helpful.
thanks man, all makes perfect sense from analogue days but it is really good to see it in action and witness the effect of a well gain staged loop in ableton.
you use a lot of fancy plugins, might have to check some of those out.
Okay... I have to overthink the kind of way I am working on (hard dance) music. 😅
Thanks for the opportunity and the input.
I work with 0 dB in the channels at first and adjust the level of the instrument inside the plugin. If I would like to have a more compact sound I use compression and I always work with Limiter and Clipping Tools. Not in each channel but in those channel which are critically (Kick, Drums). The result is a very compact and hard hitting sound. Not perfect, I am not professional as we see, but... it worked for me.
Now I am interesseted to try Gain Staging like in your tutorial and see what it will do to my mix, because I am still learning.
Thanks, man. 🧡
You don't need most of this in digital land; especially if you are using 24-bit and certainly when using 32-bit export. Most DAWs can handle 32-bit float files where clipping occurs at some humongous positive dB value, and not at unity (i.e. 0dB). Your full-scale is more centred around the 0dB if anything, so anything reasonably higher than 0dB is absolutely fine.
As a result, all channels (including the master fader) can simply be lowered down to below 0dB to achieve two things:
1) To export to a 16-bit master
2) To ensure your DAC (from your audio interface to your speakers) can handle the range and hence listen to the mix with no distortion.
When gain staging may matter is on each individual channel's chain. Many plugins have some sort of optimum input level value often documented in the manual. Depending on what each plugin does, you may not want to drive it too hard, regardless. That does depend on the plugin's function and what you are trying to achieve. In your example, you are driving something way too hard inadvertently defeating the object of what you want to acomplish in the first place. This and other similar examples are common sense and must be avoided. Besides that, gain staging is completely pointless nowadays.
Technically all correct ;) but you won’t believe how wrecked people’s sessions are under the hood (plugins driven way to hot, like shown here) and they’re wondering where in the chain the distortion comes from. I’ve seen it way too many times in real client projects and the workflow here is an easy step-by-step system. Don’t forget, many beginners have zero clue of 95% of what you’re writing in this comment. So I believe it’s much smarter to establish good production habits early on. Thanks for contributing, I dig it!
Best music production content so far on youtube, keep up the good work :)
I truly appreciate that comment, thank you! :)
Beautifully simple.Perfectly explained !
first of all, I think it is one of the most informative videos about gain staging. How does it sound to you if you do the following in your mix: You complete your mix without actually setting a limit of -6 to -12 on the sound source (we just kept the same level of intensity in the effects rack ,dynamics etc )At the end of the mix you set all the faders to unity gain and with a utility now you set the volume . For example , if in the channel of kick we had set the fader to -7.8 so that it would peak at -12dbfs, at the end of the mix since we have already placed this fader to unity gain and now with "utility"turn left to -7.8 .So the fader now is in untity gain but now we can do more careful actions in every channel, since the more you reduce the fader, the more drastic changes we would have because of the logarithmic increase.
Probably one of the best videos on gain staging on youtube. Danke!! :)
Philip, thank you for this advice and great video. The part at the end about leaving faders at 0 finally clicked for me - Now using a mix tool at the end of each chain to complete my process rather my instinctual desire to grab a fader. As far as the rest of the video - invaluable information. I have never thought about adjusting the gain level at the actual plugin. Love it and will apply to every mix moving forward. You just gained another Subscriber [No pun intended]
Perfect, I’m so happy you’re getting value here!
Keep the videos coming there’s some unique tips on this channel.
Thanks so much, that’s great to hear! If you have specific topics you’d like to see videos about on the channel then let me know. I’m very open to ideas!
14:51 This is misleading: overshooting 0dBFS here (or at any intermediate point of your signal chain) is not what results in the unwanted clipping that you describe. So even if the plugin's GUI shows some flashy ominous red warning, no clipping happens at this specific point in the signal chain. That's because your Ableton session and all your plugins are working with a 32bit floating-point signal, which can represent signals way above 0dBFS and therefore gives your signal a virtually infinite headroom. That kind of unwanted clipping (and thus distortion) will only happen when a bit depth conversion happens, ie. when the signal is sent to your soundcard or rendered to a lower bit depth audio file. Quite notably, you can have all your tracks summing way over 0dBFS, and it won't clip as long as you apply gain reduction on the master bus before the signal goes "out" of your DAW.
So yes, obviously there is no point in purposefully mixing at like 200dBFS only to then apply a 200dBFS reduction on the master bus, but it's important to pinpoint where in the signal chain distortion may or may not occur, so that when you do have an unwanted distortion you can more efficiently find out where it's coming from.
Woooah i did wrong for so long…thank you , it’s very clear about gain staging, the only thing that i don’t like about having a utility volume tool to automate is that it’s not convenient when creating tracks , the faders are so quick access…
Wow, this helps alot. All the tracks in project sounds cleaner and more dynamic. Finally when I open exported track in Audition I can see very nice curves.
Perfect. I love it when people get immediate results from my content. Thanks for sharing! 💯🚀
Much better with pre gain built into Cubase. Clean and comprehensive. Thanks for the vid!
Simplicity. I really enjoyed your take on everything.
This was excellent. Thank you for FINALLY explaining this is a clear way. You’ve earned my subscription! 🙌
This is incredibly useful.
Thank you.
Really Great explanation. It will definitely help me by using this technique. Thanks. You have a new subs now :)
Thank you!! I seen other videos on this matter. I have been told to use a utility plugin at the end of the effect chain of every channl to set the right level. Now I understand this is wrong.
I use Vital and like Serum, it comes in hot!! I am new to mixing and mastering and this is the first vid I've seen that tells you to adjust the gain at the source. Thanks for that tip! Quick question, what do you want your gain level (peak level) in the master to be before the mastering process?
Great question! Most resources will tell you “-6dB”. But that’s a myth, there’s no reason for that specific peak level. Especially if the music is very dynamic and only has a few peaks at that level and most of the music is far below it. So in a nutshell: everything below 0dBFs is fine, and in the days of 32bit float processing you can theoretically also handle higher peaks. That being said, I would go for peaks a bit below that (between -6 and -1dBFs) and keep proper gain staging in the mastering chain so you don’t mess it up in the last step. As always, don’t be religious about it and try to listen critically and make a judgment based on what you hear :) I hope that helps!
@@pickyourselfofficial that helps. I've seen hundreds of vid in the past 8 months so right now I am trying to sort thru the bad advice and absorb the good. I'm producing future bass so I've heard totally different ways to mix bass and kick sounds.
Great Video!!! If I see it earlier.... Big Thanx!
This was such a clean and simple, yet advanced video to watch, and finally a good video about Gain Staging for Abelton. Thanks! :)
Awesome, happy you’re getting some value from this :)
BEST GAIN STAGE VIDEO ON TH-cam!
wow, this transformed my mixing, even though i got a lot more work to do, it helped me understand clipping on the main source of the sound, and going to the source, is the way to go, like you said :D.
This is the way! ;)
Can i use the gain knob on the cubase master channel to reduce the entire signal coming into the master channel
Great video!
Really nice video and my compliments for your pleasent and enjoyable explanation! Thanks a lot!
That means a lot, thanks for the great feedback! 💯🙌🏻
great one Philip ;) hugs!
Heyhey, nice to see you here! Big hug :)
Great video for sure , will try to apply these steps on my current and next projects.
this was a very useful video for me my friend. glad i went thru it. thank you.
Great to see how plugins can benefit from lower signals, because the DAW makers often tell you proudly that nothing can clip inside because of using floating point values everywhere until the final master out conversion.
Good point! In a way, they’re correct. But they’re also leaving out some significant nuance to that statement. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 💯🙌🏻
Thank you and great video, you've explained this really well! I have a question, what if the plugin does not have an output or input gain adjustment? For example Ableton Live's Overdrive, what would be your method to to resolve the gain staging with those type of plugins?
Put an utility after each plugin/effect that doesn't have one. Watch something about linear and non linear effects in Ableton. That should help you out also
Endlich jemand, der gut erklären kann! 🤗
Dude this is such an amazing video! Thank you so much for this!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for the great feedback :)
Why did you gain stage with your plugins engaged? Also, I noticed that you did not use a VU meter plugin to gain to gain stage your tracks. Most videos on gain staging that I have watched they gained staged with a VU meter and the plugins bypassed. I am confused. However, I like your way of adjusting the output of the plugins. Kindly explain why you do it this way.
Great video! When you say this mix is far from perfect, what exactly do you mean? I feel like people often say that but never show a "perfect" mix. Is it still missing sounds in certain frequency bands or do you mean it's not fine-tuned perfectly?
thank you for your work!!! it was really helpful
I've seen so much conflicting advice about gain staging in the digital world but this all makes sense to me. Going to be trying this on my current project. Thanks!
Great to hear that! This is exactly why I made this video. Let me know if you run into any follow-up questions.
@@pickyourselfofficial actually I do have a question. I tend to use busses for drums, synths, pads, vocals and FX. Do I set those to zero at first too? Many thanks.
@@thestoicscientist yes, this applies to all channels in your project. And to be honest, once you gain experience you don't have to be super strict anymore about all of that. But I find it helps producers who aren't getting consistent results yet in their mixes and masters. Just establish a few good habits, but don't be too religious about them either.
@@pickyourselfofficial cool, thanks again!
Great explanation with good examples.
Exactly the info I was looking for :)
Now I’ll open the daw and try this out, thank you for sharing the knowledge ✌️
So great to hear that! Have fun experimenting :)
A very good video! Thanks a lot, Philip.
But I personally don't like the idea to save the same volume level after each audio effect. It's very tedious to align the volume many times when you actively sound designing with many plugins. The same volume level isn't mandatory. We just need enough headroom of the input level for every plugin.
Let's assume:
- You have a chain of audio effects A, B, C.
- The volume input level for A has enough headroom.
- The volume input level for B has enough headroom.
- The volume input level for C is too loud.
So you just need to decrease the volume between B, C. There are three methods:
- Decrease the output level of B.
- Decrease the input level of C.
- If your plugins don't have input/output level parameters, you can just decrease the level between them with an Utility Plugin (U). The chain will become A, B, U, C.
In simple words: if the volume level became too loud, just decrease it right in the bus. That's it.
Similary, if the level is too low, you can increase it with an Utility.
Great input! Here's my take on it: whatever decreases friction in the process and INCREASES your ability to make quick decisions is good. So if this workflow does that for you, keep doing it. For everyone who's maybe reading this, I want to point out one detail: The output stages of certain plugins also have a "sound". So just keep that in mind. If you're using a utility, you limit yourself from making active use of that character. It's a detail, nothing more. And probably not relevant for 99% of producers out there ;-)
@@pickyourselfofficial You're right. VST plugins are just black boxes for music producers. Only developers know how every knob works.
BTW I've just compared the sound of a sample without processing and with 10 pairs of utilities (-12db, +12db). And I haven't hear the difference😄. So utility is just a technical way to fix the volume without any character changes
Amazing tutorial thank you so much bro.
Damn. Thank you! Why does everyone else overcomplicate or oversimplify this? Again, thank you.
That’s what I asked myself as well and why I even decided to make that video, haha. Thank you!
@@pickyourselfofficial The "telephone game" effect maybe? Whatever. Just glad you made this and I found it! If this is how you normally break it down, I'ma sub for life! Thanks again!
Hey Philip, thanks for all the amazing advice in your videos! Just wondering, you mention that there are many problematic TH-cam tutorials out there. Could you recommend other TH-cam channels that you believe are giving good advice/tutorials? :)
Yeah I’m actually planning a video about lesser-known channels that are worth checking out. No exact date when it’s gonna happen but it’s on my content list for sure :)
@@pickyourselfofficial Amazing, looking forward to it! Thanks :)
This was great. Explains why my masters keep clipping. I was following the wrong advise for years and now I know what to change. I was gain staging to 0db with faders at infinity. I should have been having them at -12 to -6 db. And i was doing this before adding effects and stuff. yes Im an ameture and learning, but now my mixes and masters will sound much better and less mud. Thank you very much.
Thank you, I’m so happy to read that you got instant results! That’s the best feedback I could wish for 💯🙌🏻
awesome! thank you!
Excellent presentation, thank you.
I have been doing this since 1961, when we built our own gear from scratch.
I have been gain staging in the traditional manner ever since then and have never believed in this -18 dB nonsense.
Why mix 78 dBs dynamic range when you have 96 dBs dynamic range available ?
It is important to stress that signals typically ADD and for every channel you open, the other line faders have to be pulled back slightly.
Danke schön,
Bill P.
Thanks so much! Yep, your experience just proves the point ;-)
@@pickyourselfofficial You're welcome ! ☺
Great lesson! Many thanks :)
You've explained it perfectly, thanks!!
Instant sub. I wish I had seen this before.
Thank you for your video. How do I go about doing gain staging after I done the modulation and expressions on my tracks? Is gain staging supposed to be done before the automation?
Thanks for this guide! It helps me a lot!
Do you have a guide on how to properly use that limiter? Or could you please consider making that? Thanks in advance!
Great idea! Will put it on the list :)
awesome!! appreciate it! @@pickyourselfofficial
Wow, your channel is awesome bro. You are making it so much simplier to understand. But im wondering why ppl say to compensate the gain reduction, and give more output, what is that all about? how do i do that correctly if that is what im supposed to do? Thanks again man, you are awesome.
Thanks, that means a lot! To your question: if a compressor for example reduces the gain 3dB, you add 3dB at the output gain stage of that compressor (often called make up gain). You don’t have to be super precise but it’s helpful to keep it in the ballpark of what you’ve taken away. I hope that helps!
yeah they are probably telling you to match the volume after the plugin to whatever the volume was before the plugin. That is the best way to A/B a plugin and hear what it is actually doing to the sound. Our ears are easily fooled by volume so if the volume is lower after the plugin then we will think the change we made was bad... if the volume is higher after the plugin we will think the change was good. Only way to really know is to match the levels of the before & after :)
@@musiclover-r9m the big issue always is that it introduces friction and takes you out of flow state. So with more experience, you need less “perfect” gain staging.
For Reaper users:
You don't need to worry about that last tip "putting a gain utility on each channel as the last plugin".
In Reaper you have the option to do volume automation AND be able to use the fader to control the level.
Great video!
Great video!! What level do you look for on the master buss? Just try not to clip? Little side note…the Saturator preset “A Bit Warmer” is a 1-1 emulation of the Sonnox Inflator. Idk if it was intentional but they Null during testing. There’s a few videos on here if you’re wondering.
Thanks! Everything below 0dBFs is fine. Too quiet is not ideal, so I’d say a healthy mix peaks somewhere between -12 and 0dBfs in most parts. The strict “you have to submit a pre master at -6dB” requirement is absolute nonsense from a technical standpoint.
@@pickyourselfofficial Awesome to keep in mind! I just mixed a 3 track e.p. for a client and I started at -10db on the kick, and by the time I got done bringing everything in I was floating at that -3db to 0db area. This was also on an indie fusion rock track, where the drums were done in midi than converted to audio, the synths were played with a midi keyboard, and than live guitars and vox. So quite a bit of dynamics.
Do you use Clippers at any stage of your mixing? If so, I feel that explaining how you use them, might pair well with this video.
@@travesdymusic ahhh nice, perfect! Yeah clippers are interesting. It’s a hot topic right now but so many producers are using them in ways that make things worse instead of better. So yes, I guess I definitely need to make a video on how to use clipping properly. In my mixes and masters, they do play a role but they’re as transparent as it gets (unless I use them for intentional saturation on kicks, snares, claps, etc.). But in most cases, I use them so that you don’t notice them but still get some extra headroom.
@@pickyourselfofficial BINGO!!! I have to agree that they are being used incorrectly. Excited to see what you come up with!
Great video, thank you !👏
Amazing video, thank you
Very informative thanx for sharing
Question for you.. Not sure if you do this it not, but can I send you a song that I did, to review and let me know what’s wrong and what needs to be fixed?
Totally cool if you can’t, just wanted to ask. Have a great day!!
Also curious how you gain stage groups, assuming that the individual tracks within the group are gain staged correctly
Broooo thank you so much, this is sooo good, just Did it with my recent session. It's soo much cleaner, thanks.
Is there a video about how I go from mixing to mastering like about the gain lvls, do I mix with master 0db, convert to wav and master then with -6db. Or do I mix with a master on -6db wav it and ?aster then with master 0db?
Indeed, gain staging is an important topic and your video make sense to me! I have a question: so when we mixed everything and make a rough mastering, for example, using only limiter what volume level should I achieve? On your video I can see -8LUFS but how loud is it in relation to other tracks? Does it depend on the music genre? Can you help me to understand this?
It absolutely depends on the genre. Just try to be in the sweet spot where your track sounds as “dense” as you find useful without distorting or pumping like crazy. Bring in a couple of reference tracks in the same genre and start comparing. Here’s a video I made on that topic: th-cam.com/video/dXgGff9En9E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=XoJRd5l5BrF4e0Ty
Dope tutorial!
This is an excellent tutorial and technique on gain staging. If I could afford all the expensive plugins it may be useful for me. I will just have to utilize the plugins I have in my DAW to accomplish this if I can.
Thanks so much for the great feedback! Don’t worry about the plugins. They are not your bottleneck at all. Remember, I offer mixing and mastering as a service and so I have to be on top of everything that’s available. But the only thing that makes 95% of a difference is ears + skill. Your DAW plugins are great in most cases. It used to be different a few years ago but the developers have really improved a lot on the stock tools.
At what point would you do this? At the beginning of introducing each track or at the end? I imagine you could run into issues with ruining the groove/mix if you do it after yeah?
Are you using the solid green bar or the see through bar as the marker to gain -12Db off ? I say the see through as these are the peak sounds. You neglected to mention this. Very important information missed. But yea only ever automate the gain plugin never the faders .
Thanks! Early on you say adjust levels at the source - on the samplers, synths, etc. At the end you say 'use Utility'. Any difference? Thanks again
Thx bro, needed that
I don't think opening with the analog discussion helps clarify anything. Unless you were to include the one gain staging habit that applies to both analog and digital. I think it would be better just to focus on gain staging in digital from the get-go. In which case I think bit depth, oversampling, and dither probably all have a place in the discussion.
The one gain staging habit that analog and digital both have in common is "know your gear". I definitely have digital compressors that I can't set the threshold low enough to trigger on quiet recordings. And I have digital compressors that are the opposite. Threshold is an easy way to see what the plugin is expecting. Other plugins it's a little harder to tell what they want and some testing and verification is going to be necessary. But when you know your gear, and you know what it wants, and you know how it acts when you give it this or that, you more frequently reach for the correct tool then the incorrect one.
how does it work with grouped tracks?
explain why you're using an SSL compressor on your kick?
This is an awesome tip. The main problem I have with it is: I'm working with Ableton in my spare time. I'm 50 years old, and so I don't think that I will make it into the music industry. So, I will keep things simple. This means that I will make music using the stock plugins in Ableton. Of course, I've invested in Serum and added the Ozone imager besides the free version of Vital and also added Surge XT for variation. But is it really required to use Fab Filter this and Fab Filter that and all this stuff? The development of such plugins is expensive for the developers, and so they are always premium.
I won't bring all of my salary from my job into stores to buy plugins. So, I would be highly interested in such a process using just stock plugins. For example, I didn't see the benefit of using a premium EQ instead of the Ableton EQ. Or I didn't see the benefit of using other limiters. Remember, I will continue making music using the stock plugins. I can imagine that there are a lot of people outside with a comparable setup: They won't make music for a living, but they want to make music that sounds great with keeping things simple.
Don't get me wrong, this video is amazing. I've learnt a lot. And I see that you know what you talk about. This is the reason why I've subscribed to your channel. I will try to follow your tips when I open Ableton the next time. Maybe there is a good way to go through the process with just the stock plugins.
(BTW, this is no "rant" or critic or so, just a comment. Should I have written it in German? 😂)
This is what I do when I make music: soundcloud.com/henning-uhle/the-spiral
Hi Henning! Don't worry, you absolutely DON'T need all the crazy plugins I'm showing here. This was just to add some diversity ;-) Fabfilter tools are great for demonstration purposes, so it makes a lot of sense in tutorials (and yes, they also are very well developed). The Limiter is definitely worth the investment (check Black Friday deals now). Apart from that, you can get away with Ableton stock plugins, no worries.
@@pickyourselfofficial Great, thank you very much for your reply. Yes, that makes sense. Maybe with a bit more experience (I've switched to Ableton in May after using "BandLab" (Google it) for a few years), I'll invest a bit more. But for now, you know the prices for Ableton and Serum and such stuff. That's why I'll continue for now with the stock things. But we don't know what the future may bring.
thank you so much