SIG as a brand
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- We've landed on SIG as a brand now, and honestly if I made this video 6 or 8 months ago, it would have been slightly different. SIG has really fallen off, and fallen off hard. I also relied on other youtubers for footage of guns I refuse to buy, failing. So please see the resource list below, it's going to be a long one. If you want a quick and dirty, sig's metal framed legacy guns are still made very well. The P200's essentially. All of those are good, 226,229, 210 ETC. Their 1911s are meh, but still good to go for the most part....ish. The P320 and P365, you couldn't pay me to buy. If you gave them to me, I would sell them for something else. I refuse to use them unless it's on duty and if there's an M9 in the armory, I'm taking that. I am qualified on the M18, and I have seen a few fail. I think the range is currently shut down because one went off in the holster lol. But I can't speak on that 100%, rumor mill is a churning, and the range is indeed for a fact, shut down. Anyway.......I don't like any of the new Sig rifles. They're over complicated and break in completely preventable ways. I also think SIG is investment casting on the level of Springfield armory, which is absolutely not a complement. They need to fix themselves, or I'm not going to recommend them anymore. Because the quality slips, it's only a matter of time until the legacy guns begin to suffer like the P320's and P365's do. What I didn't add in, was a conversation with a SIG armorer that stated they expect the P365 to fail, requiring internal parts replacement, at 2000 rounds. Which is bat shit insane to me.
Resources:
Nutinfancy Sig Cross Fail video: • Shocking Fail: Sig Cro...
RogerBerrera P320 suppressed video: • P320 AXG Combat FAIL!
GunSpot: • Video
Harry's holsters: • Sig P365 Gen 2 2000 Ro...
Tactical Advisor: • P365 XL Major Trigger ...
MCX Spear preliminary shift report: drive.google.com/file/d/17d-j...
My channel is not monetized on TH-cam, Rumble is, because they make me, but I've made zero dollars. I use cutaways, pictures, and all sorts of shit in this video to reference or keep people interested. Please support the official releases. All of them. Even dino boy's video on his barrel deflection. I needed them for reference, and to keep people interested. That's it.
Timecode:
0:00 Opener
0:42 What Sig is good at
2:26 What Sig is bad at
23:07 Closer
![[TH] G2 vs PRX | EDG vs FUT - VALORANT Champions 2024 DAY 4](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Bkr_qM7dIaM/mqdefault.jpg)
Sig got these contracts because they hired Daniel Horner away from the army marksmanship unit (AMU). The AMU tests and evaluates every weapon for the army, so now you have a guy that knows the language needed in these contracts and he was their golden child and now he’s sending products to his buddies. Them getting Lena miculek helped too but having Horner was like Nike having Michael Jordan
Thanks for the information and it makes complete sense.
Also, Colt and FN sends seconds (in theory FUNCTIONAL seconds) of parts to DD BCM... PA,,, etc etc for their builds .. like your lower parts kit right now in your DD may be out of spec but not enough to effect function.,,, crazy huh
Sig Sauer undercut Glock by like 100 million dollars on the bid, THAT is why they got the contract.
These days, "Military Grade" means it was built by the low bidder... I should know... I've been building shit for the military for 35 years.
They used to throw out the high and low bid and select based on "best value" and each bidder's experience, resume, and reputation. On some contracts you had to meet strict qualification criteria. Now, it's all low bidder driven. They put out a spec and whoever can meet that spec for the lowest price gets the contract.
Contractors will submit bids for cost plus 2% and then beat up their suppliers and shippers to squeeze profits out of the contract. In turn, everyone is trying to buy the cheapest components and use the cheapest manufacturing methods. They will get as much done by the cheapest labor force they can... everybody is cutting corners.
That’s a lot for to put on a competition shooter lol
@@navyman8903gen scott miller is the reason why sig keeps getting military contracts. Also American companies getting huge contracts is a good thing for America,increases our GDP which is required in a growing economy. The definition of “Military Grade” is still the same. Hence the poo poo m18.
Sig 1990s: "To Hell and Back."
Sig 2010s: "When it counts."
Sig 2020s: "May the odds be ever in your favor. "
It's so refreshing to hear honesty and no shilling. Thank you dude.
Thanks for watching man, I appreciate it. Always nice to see you in the comments.
I'm sure the video is still processing, strap in, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Not sure if you will see ads or not, but I did use other TH-camr's content, which is in the resource section. Please watch their stuff as well for full context.
Bcm soon?
@@ringneck7500 Hopefully that and Daniel Defense would love a comparison video on The Ris 3 Vs. MK16
While I would love a P229, I'd NEVER bet my life on ANY SIG SAUER product. Especially, their polymer guns. They have failed and do not inspire confidence. Thanks for ALL your great input and videos!!! HK and Beretta forever!!!
I have a 227 tacops that has optimized trigger. Grey guns ELH trigger, SIG armorer's improved hammer strut, Amory craft smooth action kit. Had the slide milled for an RDS. With obsidian 45 can. The thing is a laser beam. If your ever in Michigan it is a treat to shoot.
@@user-jv4ic8rh4d I would absolutely love to shoot it if I'm there.
when I was the RSO for my MP unit and we were Qualifying with the M17, I had a solider raise his had because his empty casing wouldn't extract. When looking at it closer it turns out the entire extractor ripped off. It was a brand new hand gun.
When my reserve unit first got them and we qualified, had I believe 2 , deadline on the range. First time being fired by the unit.
Sig innovates at such a rate that their qc can’t keep up. The anti Glock strategy basically. Sig actually reminds me a lot of keltec in the sense that keltec is also known for innovation and foregoing qc in favor of treating customers like beta testers.
The Keltec p32 tho
Since the 320 came out and got that contract, all of these "Sig" people fell out of the ether. Working at a gunstore, people come in and say "I'm a Sig guy" all the time. "I love my 320." When I tell them I'm not a fan of polymer Sigs, they ask why I'm not a Sig guy. I constantly have to point out to them that I'm a huge fan of the metal P series. They look lost when I say that, and THAT lets me know a few things.
Thank you for calling it out as a fellow Navy man and ACTUAL shooter of his guns!
That story rings true for me too. The deer in the headlights look I get every time is hilarious. Thanks for watching man, I appreciate it!
Even if there weren't any problems, the Spear should be like a $1500 rifle tops
Completely agree with you there.
100% I've been saying for a while now that their long guns are grossly overpriced. There's literally no reason to buy a 3k-5k spear because there is nothing it's capable of that a well built AR15 isn't.
At the end of the day, though, you'd be just as well off with an A4 😂
If it didn’t have the issues it has I think $2K would be fair.
Well, what does a Geissele Super Duty cost?
An LMT Monolithic CQB piston cost?
HK223/556?
LWRCi’s equivalent?
Barrett’s piston AR?
None cost only $1500.
P230 and a P226. Those are the only two SIG's I own. I'd never waste 6K+ for a SIG Spear. Absurd. 🙄
Freaking FINNALLY someone speaks the truth... It's like guys in the gun community are afraid to tell the truth about modern SIG. Super innovative but their engineering isn't complete and their QC is so unbelievably abhorrent. You hit so many points, this video is perfect.
I don't even think its innovative, their new rifles are basically AR-18 clones if you look at them.
Sig is still top dog. The most innovative company on the market. Yes they have a few bugs here and there, their customer service is great
@@12monkey57 lmao
@@12monkey57 Dude, did you even watch the video? SIG is awful.
@@12monkey57Good luck with that 365, mine was nothing but problems
He’s back from getting cigarettes 😢
I'll always come back, no matter how long it takes.
Can you still buy cigarettes?
*YES*
Where can you smoke them?
*NOWHERE*
😂
AWW SHIT HERE WE GO AGAIN (smash that like button for the video. I'm genuinely so happy whenever navyman delivers the milk)
oh my god my condolences on being forced to carry a bar of soap
👍🏻✝️
I wept when the German plant closed. Cohen ruined Kimber, and now SIG. Great video, good sir.
That’s what Cohen’s do to products, businesses, and nations.
Right on the money. They lost the quality and got someone who only knows how to crash companies.
Grew up with Sigs being top tier. Sad to see what’s become of the brand. You are spot-on.
It truly is a sad state of affairs. Their leadership needs to change.
I can feel the anger. Thank you for the passionate and concise review. I hope more people will hold them accountable.
CEO "Ron Cohen"
And.. there it is.
The underminers, the plotters, the elite clan of little goblin people.
I feel that SIG now that they have Govt contracts, is like how Colt used to be in the early 2000's.
Not talking about the QC and the refinement part, more so on the Air headedness and lack of customer service/satisfaction.
I sure hope the Govt invalidates SIG's patent exclusivity so the Spear and 320 go public domain
Then we will see real improvements to the designs
@@morgonfr33m4n1337zI pray for that everyday.
Sig hired a diverse engineering team, just like OceanGate.
source
It’s their CEO. Same guy who neutered Kimber. Chasing metrics that have little to do with what WE demand: profits
@@WDLC1911 Is Kimber not shit now then?
@kyrozudesoya1829 Personally I find Kimber guns lacking.
A diverse engineering team - great!
229, M11-a1, and SP2022. Don't care for anything else from them if it isn't hammer fired. Thanks for the content homie, hope your summer is going well.
Look into Cohen's past companies, and you'll easily discover why Sig is going downhill.
Our tremendous business / financial "news" sector would have us believe that corporate raiding and junk finance scams died with Milken, Boesky and Icahn being show-trialed and "punished." The truth is that vampires are everywhere, and our "news" never focuses on their predations.
Early Life section missing....
Shut it down!!
Look up that sir name too lol
They went from a small 500 person company to a 1billion dollar, 2,000 person company in just 5 years under cohen. They have added .5million dollar contracts with the us army now and the ngsw contract etc etc. How is that down hill?
I was finished with Sig Sauer around 2014 when their quality went into toilet.
Same
I had no idea there were so many problems with sig outside of the early 365 issues and the 320. Thanks for the heads up!
Milwaukee Police Department completely ditched their 320s for Glocks. They weren't the first the 320 is trash.
Navyman covered a lot of ground but even still this was only concerning service pistols. The model 250, 2022, Cross, P238 and P938 all have horrendous crippling issues as well.
Being an assembler for SIG, most metallic framed guns, 210, 226 legion, 1911, etc. There is some form of pride when building a gun, then come the PR staff who only look for numbers built within a certain period of time, and say "move quicker" basically. It's really quantity over quality at this point.
Inb4 Siggers come out in force
SIGGER'S could be here.
@@Guesswhat87 kek
This vid is so off the chain… no SIG fanbois would dare step in to defend the crap that is now SIGARMS.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sig basically read the quote, “I fear the man who practices 1 kick 10,000 times,” and said nah - we’ll do the opposite.
I just stay away from anything SIG USA.
Edit: For the 5000 rounds recoil spring thing I'm sure that's a "mechanism" they created to avoid performing warranty work.
Oh 100%. Maximum excuses as always.
This is the best video on TH-cam. Damn man, you brightened my day!
I don't know about the best, but thank you for the kind words and watching.
It’s good to see you back. You absolutely nailed it with this video. I was a Gen 1 MCX Beta tester in 2016; recoil assembly disassembled itself during my first shots. Never again.
Send
In
Gun
That sounds like a super fun experience
I’m heard that a Marine Corps general that had some involvement with Sig weapons being adopted is now on the Sig U.S. board of directors.
A fitting world with Raytheon's man in Austin, just like Bechtel's man G Schultz in other admins, Hallburton/KBR via Wyoming Dick, hey if you can't work the revolving door why even take a job in/with fedgov? Perky Johnson's Econ Sicario book was supposed to be fringe whacko stuff!
I've heard that too, but need to dig into that more.
This series is great and you definitely put companies in their place when needed. Would love for you to do a video like this on primary arms and their optics.
I’ve had a ~2019 p365 and a 2023 p320. I’ve ran bout 6-700 rounds on the p365 and about 1000 on the p320. I know, not extreme round counts, range trips are roughly monthly. The only reason I got a 320 was for a certain chassis from Utah with a built in manual safety. I’m happy with both for a few reasons. That said, your criticisms are absolutely 100% valid. I’m even somewhat iffy modern 226’s at this point, having shot a West German 226 a buddy of mine owns. And don’t get me started on the outrageous long gun prices. I agree with the optics points as well. I trust primary arms and vortex more for us poors. Thanks for sharing again dude.
I totally agree with you.I think the military made a big mistake. When they whent with the Sig p320 and the Spear Rifles.
Glock should’ve won that contract. It was all about money in the end. As with everything.
@@seanvine39nah, the Beretta M9A4
@@vrilcel well, there’s that too. No real reason to ditch Beretta.
My dads p220 SAS shot its magazine release through the metal frame into the snow one day and they sent him a light-railed replacement frame since, as you pointed out, they discontinue everything w the parts overnight. They even made him pay for shipping.
That's crazy, and also sounds just like them.
Yet Glock will just hook you up, no questions.
The German stuff was solid. After the US factory started running more and more and German less, quality control dropped drastically. They started trying to push out too many offerings too quickly and subsequently the end user suffers. After I retired from LE, I managed a gun shop and we had Romeo optics not work out of the box, most of the rental Sig’s would frequently have broken parts, mags rusting, etc. The 320 issues came and they offered a “voluntary upgrade” which should have been mandatory. I spoke with Rick at Lazy Wolf about this topic and he was saying a bunch of new reports of firing out of battery, along with other problems. Ultimately they have their fans who swear by them, but HK, Glock etc have not had anywhere near the amount of problems that Sig does. I tried to like my 320 but just didn’t trust it. Felt cheap. I loved my old 220, 229. Those were great! I think Sig needs to slow it down and not try to be the first out, rather strive to be the best out.
The 22x guns are great right now. But any of the new guns are cheap, unsafe and break with boring reliability. Every time I chamber an M18 for duty, I'm nervous it's going to go off.
@@navyman8903 Not a happy scene when that's the duty pistol you're talking about. Sorry man.
The sig factory in NH opened in 1990, the first gun they produced was the P229 and then it was only the slide assemblies….the frames were still imported from Germany…..those guns were and are awesome…easily as good as their (west) German products……the Sigarms era (1985-2007) was the best era for sig quality and reputation-wise. They didn’t cut corners, just made and delivered quality product…..then ron cohen got hired to “save” the company and the era of the p226 with 200 slide colors began…..as did the slowly accelerating deterioration of the company’s QC when cohen decided his company needed to stick its fingers in too many pies…..while we can thank sig for the proliferation of the micro nine and the modular handgun among others, we can also condemn them for their halfassed designs and pisspoor QC
I have a triple serial 229 in 357, it's awesome. I bought it a few years ago to add another 229 to inventory, and the guy asked me why i drove 3 hours to get it. For one, he only asked me for $400. Two, it was pristine.
I bought the "Pro-Cut" slide to try a pistol optic and to have a 9mm option.
Don't care for optics, but it runs great.
Navyman sig roasting is my favorite AMSR.
Of all the sigs I own, the only one I ever had an issue with was my P229R when I first acquired it in 2012. There was deformity with the barrel that wouldn’t allow me to put the gun back together after field stripping. Sent it back to Sig and got it back in 10 days with the issue fixed.
I'm glad they fixed it for you and the metal framed hammer guns are still good to go, as of now.
I admit trading in my CZ75-BD for the p320 - for training familiarity, when our branch adopted the M18. I even further drank the coolaid and replaced my carry pistol with a 365XL. I had heard rumors of all the points you’ve made - but in my market research there must have been an overwhelming majority of counter propaganda. I feel as if I’ve been had. Thank you for your honesty; it’s giving me a lot to consider in my sidearms choices
Aw man, should have just kept the cz
I am in the process of RMAing a Romeo4T and an experience that started off great has nosedived off a cliff.
I picked up a 4T secondhand and needed to switch to a low mount. Tale as old as time, last screw stripped, but Sig CS said that it was covered under warranty, which is great! Packed it up and sent it off, forgot about it. Red dot came back, the gunsmith note said:
"Mounting screw not stripped, just missing 3. Replaced screws and returned to customer."
Well, at least I'm getting it back in the condition I received it in.
Thanks God we live in a free country, everybody should be able to voice there opinin
Thank you for the content as always. I was issued a sig229 for the last 3 years being attached to ncis (just switched over to the Glock 19) and it ran flawless with thousands of rounds through it. Throughout the last three years I still had to qual with the m18 and go to courses using the m17. I’ve had issues with both and seen problems on the fire line with other shooters. I’m not surprised the military chose it but just disappointed…
The M18s are garbage for sure. The metal framed SIGs I haven't had issues with, even the clapped out M11s we were running before were better. A 226 or 229 is fine with my, I'm obviously biased toward the 226. But anything else right now, especially their new generation guns are an absolute mess.
Your timing on this video yesterday, in light of the P320 video circulating today of the officer’s pistol having an un-commanded discharge while in the duty holster, was epically clairvoyant. Well done bro. That said, see Yankee Marshal’s analysis of the video footage.
th-cam.com/video/hCWyFH0P2LA/w-d-xo.html
YM is WAAAAYYYY too much of a Fudd for me, which is especially infuriating because the man knows his firearms.
Great video! Just goes to show how powerful marketing is. People still buying their polymer pistols as CCW defensive pistols is slightly terrifying to me after all the problems they've had. It'll probably take a fatal accident before they do anything serious about their design problems.
Was at the range last weekend. Some guys 229 had a misfire. It was his duty gun. If that was me I would throw the gun in the safe and never carry it for duty or ccw again. I knew their striker fired guns were problems. Had no idea about their hammer fired guns which used to be legendary.
I like sigs designs, but I don't think I'll be buying any of their stuff until they get their act together.
Going to replace my p365 when the new HK micro compact comes out
YES!!! IVE BEEN HOPING THIS IS WHAY YOU WERE BRINGING!!!
At the time, I didn't feel Sig winning MHS was a big deal, but looking back now that we've seen the M17/M18/P320, Glock losing was a big deal. They really should've won, and even the M9 variant would've been ok since it addressed the largest problems.
I would have much preferred the M9A3 or Glock.
The M9 is nowhere near as accurate or reliable as the P320 or the glock 19
@@HaydenHKDA military M9 that has been beat to death and not maintained in decades is indeed less reliable than the Sig or Glock, but a properly maintained one is just as reliable.
@joshuabracke5775 even that military M9 comes right back to life the moment you put new springs and locking block into it. Can't say the same for the Sig.
The 19x was bullet proof for me and I bought it when they first released when everyone was ragging on them for a stupid design and a year later everyone changed their mind ,
Now you have to do a Glock as a Brand video.
I miss my old 226 TacOps; I had a lemon in my legion 226, I didn’t have it for long. I wish I bought a 227 TacOps. Glad to see you back, I was really getting bored watching MK12 videos lol
Lol. I'll send you an email here later today to tell you what in up to. I also wish I bought a P227 and some older 226s. Also another Legion when I did, because apparently they changed those up too.....
One thing too about their sig 320 line up is their crazy high bore axis that I don’t like. The pistol feels like a brick in your hand
Can’t wait to see you do LWRC, Daniel Defense, Radian, and Knights Armaments!
He already did knights
@@2bas1c87 i just finished watching it not too long ago this morning oh well
WOOOOOOOOHHH NAVYMAN WOOOOOOO YEAHHHHHH. Oh boy can’t wait to watch this!
As a 226 legion fanboi, I completely agree with you on all the cons, and the pros.
It's truly a sad state of affairs. I love mine and it always performs. I have over 4k through it. I might be over 5k at this point. It's been nothing but amazing.
Got the 365 with 365xl Wilson combat grip used to have the sp2022. That being said my go to is G19 gen5
Can confirm as a former shop worker and armorer. We had 3 p226 over 3 years as our rental guns completely warp their frames due to the recoil spring failing. This was well under 10k rounds, same failure on each gun. It was to the point where you couldn't cock the pistol. Note that we had CZ 75, Beretta M9, and numerous 1911s all metal frame that did not have the same failures. Although we had Beretta barrels break. Anyway, every year our SIG p938, and P238 never survived the year as a rental gun either. Never had a single stock Glock fail. Never an HK fail. Never a CZ fail. But always SIG and Rugers failed. They refused to honor our warranty and were a pain in the ass when we had to recall our P320s and SIG rifles.
Thanks for the info and confirmation. I appreciate you as always.
I really love these “As a brand” videos. I would love to see you touch on Colt someday, what with them just being absolutely brain dead when it comes to business decisions.
My new and favorite edc and duty weapon. Sig 229 legion. Just a great daily do everything handgun. Corse with a few extras it’s perfection for me.
Hi Kitty!
And yes, I too have had probs with my sig.
Never had a single issue with any of my 6 HK guns over the years.
You're on fire in this video. I agree with 99% of what you said. I disagree that Sig doesn't have any decent optics to offer, though. The Romeo 5 I bought for my first AR has survived bumps, drops and falls and stayed zero. Although, I did swap the janky mount it came with for an ADM mount. Also, their Romeo 4XT-PRO and Romeo 8T are very solid optics.
I have a P365XL that I've put over 1K rounds through (mostly 124gr S&B and 124gr Speer Gold Dots) and haven't had any problems with it. However, I did have one instance where it spit a casing back directly into my face. None of my other pistols have ever done that. I'm in the 603, and I wish I could be proud of local gun makers, but the truth is I'm never buying a Sig gun ever again.
You’re right on the money, as usual. The only Sig I care to own anymore is a P226 Legion. I just wish I could find an SAO with the original crappy PVD finish. Hate the newer green colored cerakoted Legions. Never did like their striker fired guns. If I want a polymer gun I’ll take a Glock or HK. Almost bought one of their 1911s on a couple of different occasions but reviews I’ve seen caused me to hold off.
Loved the cat cameo with the tail seemingly pointing at your P226 as if to say “This is the only Sig worth owning!” Haha! Good stuff!
Agreed on all counts. I'm once again baffled at why they changed something that was working just fine. But it's SIG USA after all.
I got a P229 Elite recently and that's been great so far. I'm generally more interested in DA/SA pistols and DA revolvers than striker fired these days so I'll probably skip over the 320.
Their metal framed hammer guns are still good to go as of now. Hopefully that stays the case.
Great video and mirrors my thoughts. I have numerous SIG's, especially the hammer fired ones. I love the 226 and 229 and have 3 German made 226 x5's. Only issue was a broken trigger return spring in one of my 226's. I have a few 320's and don't trust them. No issues, but I don't trust them. I am also not crazy about the direction the company went. I am of course a massive HK fan and in the last couple of years have really come to appreciate and love Glocks. My competition, carry, and home defense guns have all been Glocks for the last 3 years or so. Excellent video.
Thanks for watching man, I appreciate it and hope you're doing well.
@@navyman8903 I’m good brother.
Well said and TRUE, and I love my 226. For the last 15 years I have been carrying the P239 I bought a P365XL to replace it. I don't trust it so
I am still carrying the P239 with has not let me down.
They feel cheap and when you run the defense loads in them, they really feel like they're struggling to hold together. It's a weird sensation. I've fired a standard P365 and an XL. The XL was better but not excellent. The metal 200 series hammer guns are still good to go.
Dude, this rant was gold.
SIG’s “investment castings” are actually metal-injection molded parts done by INDO-MIM in India. SIG outsourced critical parts of their firearms to save money. Trigger parts, firing pins, strikers, extractors, basically all the parts that we see breaking all over the place.
Makes a lot of sense now.
The first handgun I ever fired was SIG P226 that I rented at the range. Fell in love with it immediately. The old SIGs are amazing, the new ones not so much. I wouldn't buy a P320 or P365 if my life depended on it. I'm still wondering why the Army adopted the SIG Spear, feels like they just went backwards. Even the SIG Spear LT has had issues. I feel like the company is more hype now than anything else.
Completely agree man. I think once the plants closed in Europe and the US took over everything, they started to ruin good things. The P22x series guns they couldn't mess up if they tried, and they won't redesign it, which is what makes it safe. If they do a "redesign" run the opposite direction.
@@navyman8903 Yeah I think they were forced to close down their plants in Europe because they got tired of dealing with the EU and their firearms export laws. I just don't understand where the quality went and why the military keeps awarding them contracts. It's sad to see what SIG has become.
Any thoughts on SIG using outsourced MIM from India in their legacy guns too? I was thinking about buying a 226 or 229, but am hesitant with their more recent shenanigans.
Question: You guys think these issues are primarily faced by the civilian and LE market? Or do you think the military has been affected by this as well? I'm pretty concerned by the fact that SIG is now the preeminent small arms contractor for the US military (XM7 rifle and M17/18 pistols) given the QC and reliability issues we're seeing. I never had any issues with any of the M16s I had from my time in the service, not even the crusty, old A2 I had in basic (which I swear was still caked in sand from Desert Storm).
Oh it's a systemic failure of quality and manufacturing at the company. It will effect all sales divisions and product lines. When the failure is at the source, all things will suffer.
I've had the 1-6 msr for over a year and it's fantastic. Youay be right about the rest of your opinions but I put that cheap lpvo through hell almost every day and it's been great for what it is. Granted it's a budget optic but it holds zero as good as a top tier optic and I think the reticle is perfect.
Where i live (CT) we had two local PDs in the past year running P320s in safariland level 3 holsters go off randomly without any outside manipulation. One just happened a few days ago in Montville. But of course, the people swingin from Sigs 🥜 say the gun is perfectly fine and its “user error.” Funny my Glocks or 1911s or CZs or H&Ks never decided to randomly send one while holstered.
I absolutely can not believe some of the excuses I've heard about why they went off. How it was the holster or some debris in the holster. Absolute nonsense.
@@navyman8903 you and me both brother. If you watch the absolute garbage video yankee marshal put out today it will make you want to appendix carry a P320, chambered. Dozens of lawsuits….LEOs, civilians, all having the pistol go off in different types of holsters….but nope, gun is fine, Sig is amazing.
So refreshing to hear somebody speak the truth and not pretend theres not an issue. Been subbed for years and videos like this earn my respect.
Thank you, it means a lot. I appreciate it.
I have shot the classic SIGs for really long time, and I have used a ton of the double braid spring.
The 9mms NEVER needed a change.
The .40s and .45 will unwind in short order.
They now use flat springs, and those do seem to be better.
I also exclusively use the Grayguns "Fat Rod", and that's been pretty nice. I call it the fart rod, but thats because it's funny to say.
The classic SIG pistols are really an entirely different animal from the newer P320 and such. Even the ones with Exeter slides. There were some early chokes with the long extractor design on them, but I have one of 2021 vintage and it's stone cold reliable.
NH New Englander here. Not new to firearms but new to concealed carry. Is Berretta GTG? I have a Glock 34 and like it enough but was thinking something double action for carry
Yeah berrettas good
This is the one I've been waiting for.
Thanks for bringing up Sog dropping products at the drop of a hat. Say what you may about Glock, but they stand by their product and actually support older models still.
Sig should have called the vOlUnTaRy UpGrAdE program for the 320 should have been a recall. They would see alot less vitriol if they owned up to their mistakes.
Completely agree and Glock is getting much more attention and business from me. Which is sad to say considering how much I love my P226 and how well I shoot it. But I can't support how they're doing business either.
@@navyman8903 That is a major disappointment. Especially since Sig supplies the branches with the 320 and the new M5 (which I doubt will be standard issue long term, but I digress) the fact that service members are getting subpar, shit tier products made by the lowest bidder is par for the course. I just wish that the government had its priorities in check with how it spends our money
@@navyman8903 It seems to be a 21st Century, UK+US-led, attitude shift toward customers. "Beta testing suckers at best" or "a fool and his money are soon parted," take your pick. It's not limited to firearms and I bet you have noticed, it's not limited to business spheres either. As Billy Spear-shaker once said in a different era, "something is rotten in Denmark."
Love the honest reviews man! Keep it up! Will you do a review on your bolt action rifle?
My R700 is on the to do list for sure.
@@navyman8903 Look forward to it!
I came here solely for the heat and was not disappointed 😂
Thanks for the conversation. I'm an admitted Sig fan but I am not stubborn enough to ignore problems. I own a few P320's. They've been good guns so far. But, believe me when I say that I have my concerns. I will keep looking for more information regarding their apparent qc issues. I do appreciate your insight.
Thanks for watching and keeping an open mind. I genuinely appreciate it, believe me, this take on SIG in this video is not what I wanted to have. I genuinely love my experience with my Legion, other 226s and 229s I've shot. My Legion is my favorite 9mm.
@navyman8903 yea I have a gen 1 1/2 MCX that runs like a champ. But only after the initial improvements. I wish I didn't have to have any second thoughts.
Wooooow!! I had no idea! Thank you!!
What about the 716i tread 7.62×51 rifle? I didn't hear it mentioned. Thank you for the video.
I don't have much experience with it, so I left it out. But reports for that are much better than the spear from what I gather.
Oh hell yeah I love ripping on SiG. Their handling of the P320 drop safety was so bad. Voluntary upgrade? They should’ve recalled it immediately. The fact that there’s still 320s in circulation that haven’t had the “upgrade” is why I’ll never trust those guns
Thank you, sir!
Ron Cohen is what happened to Sig. He rolled in to Kimber in the early 2000s and just absolutely trashed their product and cut corners on building those guns. The company never recovered from that. Tell someone you own and Kimber and they'll laugh at you. Those were good 1911s for the money before he got there. My 320 just dumped itself at 3200 rnds. My M&P2.0 9c is still going strong on 7800 rnds. My gen 5 19 didn't start dumping itself until 9100 rnds.
You're exactly right. If you looked at an old SIS and compared it to what they were making after, you could see a clear drop in quality.
I've got a gen 3 19 still runs great and shoots tight at 30,000 plus rounds.
I love that you just come out and say it. I’m same as you. My 226 Legion is great (more like an heirloom at this point). But people look at me like I have 2 heads when I say that Sig as a company can’t be trusted.
Years ago I got some great advice - if you need a carry gun, try Glock, try M&P. Whichever one you like more, buy it. Done.
Great video . Own a P320 ,without any issues so far... However it was the "upgraded version ". Their new Sig Romeo 4T and XT PRO seems to put lots of pressure on the T2 market, even though they can only be submerged to 1.5m and only 5years of warranty... after all I just don't feel backed up by their cuestionable claims.
That is bullshit, read on the website it can be submerged to 20 meters which is double eotechs water rating. I own a t2 and a 4T-Pro and the 4t pro is a better optic
@hunterwasden7522 They clearly stated in the specification section IPX-8 (1.5m water resistant for 30 mins) I assume you could read it.
Only sig I bought which I waited months to buy because it was a sig was the p322. 22lr is just for fun anyway. No lead build up like earlier ones after 400 rounds. Bought a shield plus over a 365.
based huntard
This is why the only SIGs I use are P226/229s. My rifle is FN, and my micro pistol is a Walther.
Strong choices.
I'm curious, have you had any experience with their rifle red dots (4T Pro, 8T, etc.)? You only really mentioned the Tango 6.
Just get one of the better Holosun dots
I've only used the LPVOs.
@@beelbrother1648 In my experience so far, the newer 4T Pros are on par with Aimpoint T2's while being significantly cheaper and have a mount in the box.
COKEMAN: MENTIONED
Sig is a perfect example of what to do, and what NOT to do as a gun company. They’re dipping their toes in a lot of areas like optics, ammo, silencers, etc. Which is all well and good. But as you said, multiple iterations of products get discontinued because there’s an “update”, which inevitably leads to more issues, and another update. And inevitably leads to another discontinued product. That isn’t a company that I’d want to rely on in any capacity, be it civilian, law enforcement, or military. Which is truly a shame, because the company made some truly great firearm. The whole P22X series obvious being their flagship.
Great info.. keep them coming
Thanks.
I love my sig 516, and their red dots, not so much anything else, the mcx handguard issues and so on
my local range just put up a 226 legion on the rental wall, and i shot it. why did they have to do that to me? also p250 is a hidden gem imo maybe im just quirky tho.
appreciate you being super real i knew the 320 and 365 were beta tested on the people but i didnt know just how bad it still is, great vid as always 👍
You are spot on. The 226 is the only decent gun. I have said it for about five years or so. Sig is a trash company ever since they closed shop in Europe. For a semi auto duty level pistol only Glock, HK and Beretta are good. For rifles stick to HK, FN, DD, KAC, LMT, LWRCI and Geissele. What makes a company great isn’t if something breaks or not, because with enough use everything breaks/wears out, it is the customer service and support afterwards.
The SP2022 is also a great Gun!
What about Colt rifles?
Next up: Staccato.
So is the mk25 good to go or just get a SRT 226/229?
Mk25 is solid. 👍🏻 Their hammer fired guns are where it’s at.
I have a sig p320 axg pro metal frame have around 2000 plus no issues with the gun shots fantastic I was pretty bummed to see what their charging for the spear
Keep an eye on it, though the frame might be forged those internals are cast. I hope it continues to run well for you.
So I've been carrying a Sig p365xl for about a year now and haven't had no issues. I have about 1000 rounds through it with no malfunctions. Should I be worried about the gun just going off? Thats crazy that was happening. It makes me wanna make my 365xl a range toy.
I have 2 M17s, SIG MCX LT, and a P226 legion. The M17 has run great for me. And the P226 Legion is my favorite handgun to date. But I hear you on everything. Only reason I have the 2 M17s is because they were buy one get one 50% off. Idk if I'd buy them again (M17). But I'm going to buy a 2nd P226 as well. 👍
The 226 and metal framed hammer guns are good to go still. Idk what they're doing with everything else. I genuinely used to love SIG. They're letting everyone down these days. It's sad.
After seeing the damage from the pics and videos, I will be on the lookout for any issues with my P320s. I personally own the original P320 X-Carry and a Gen 2 P320 X-VTAC, with about 250 rounds run through both. No issues thus far, but I will be vigilant and send any updates to you if something happens. As a side note, I'll be getting a MK25 in the near future
Please keep me updated.
BERETTA as a Brand...