Hi Steve, i think comparing the cost of rebuild to what you could get on the second hand front, the latter is possibly the best way to go, obviously depends on what your friend wants to pay, for that sort of money you will get a good setup and a lot newer with available body parts if you get a well known make, not commented for a while but still watch and love the channel.
Glad to see you’re wearing gloves for the strip down; I was a little worried when you had bare hands in the first video, because when certain fluoro elastomer materials (some types of o-rings) can generate harmful compounds including hydrofluoric acid when they’re subjected to extreme heat.
With labor at 100 euros an hour (my guess for a race mechanic in Europe) and about 100 hours of work minimum to do the rebuild, there is another 10,000 euros. Also need to add seat belts, fire suppression system and certified re-inspection and there is another 1,500 to 2,000 euros. Now looking at 23k to 25k total for the rebuild if done by a professional. Bet you can buy a darn good car for that price to replace the damaged one. Have to agree that unless there is some huge sentimental value or specialty about this car (which I doubt as it appears to be a Caterham or Caterham clone and your friend just bought it), best path appears to be to sell for parts and buy a replacement vehicle. The only caveat to this is if you are going to monetize it by doing a rebuild series on the car, but I don't know if you will earn enough to offset all the work you will have to do. You really hit home with the point about the fire suppression system being basically junk unless it was tubed into the various potential fire-starting points. Even if you friend had stopped quickly and gotten out of the car with the extinguisher, there was no access to the fire point with all the panels that were in the way.
This is an informative video. The costs add up quickly. Repairs to new cars are in the stratosphere these days with all the sensors and sub-assemblies.
I would like to see you resurrect the phoenix so to speak. It sounds like you are approaching or exceeding the value of the vehicle especially if labor is included. It may make sense to do a restoration if it is a rare or otherwise “special” vehicle. You have not indicated this is the case and most people don’t buy special vehicles to race in high speed competitions. This is unfortunate for your friend. Sometimes I have thought in the past you take more care than perhaps is necessary when doing maintenance or a rebuild. This has shown me that what you do is exactly what is required for proper and safe operation of the vehicle in all conditions. Thanks for doing it right and showing viewers how to do it right.
Thanks for the comments, the owner decided not to fix it and I agree with him. As for the car and the work that was done. I had checked - up the car a few months ago after he bought it. Checked all components , as I always do. Placed new seatbelds in, changed all the engine fluids, checked the brakes etc... ( I have a video on that ). One of the points I raised was the gastank and the Battery and electrical fuel pomp all sitting so close to eachother, Recommended do change that. That was not done and he decided to do that later. Anyhow, the car seemed to be in a good condition. as to the fire itself, two options.... he spilled fuel when filling it up, that ignited by sparks from exauhst at that corner ( as `i could smell fuel behind him) or the hoses/ fuel pomp/ filter/ neck/overflow had an issue and leaked, sparked by the exhaust..
Strength there and to your friend. It's a lot of work and will cost a lot. I still think it would be great if you restore this car and make videos about it. A couple of comments. That coil looks like a standard Ford coil (BOSCH 0 221 503 487) and costs about 50 euros. If that ECU has to be replaced, it's probably easier to replace it with a newer model, for example MaxxECU. Its ecu doesn't need to be very complicated as it only has 4 cylinders and a waste spark coil.
I think the car is repairable but it’s a long ,dirty, job to get all the damaged parts out. The chassis will be ok as the fire will have been extinguished fairly quickly at the track. It would not have got hot enough to soften the steel in any way. Looking at the damage i would say it started as an electrical fault that then spread and melted a fuel line. One it’s all cleaned up I think it might surprise you.
Hate to rub salt into an open wound but i would be worried about the rear chassis, roll cage and suspension components too. Obviously anything metallic got very hot which may have effected it's strength. Worth a call to a metallurgy expert if you know someone.
Even if you spend all that money on parts, and all the time and effort to complete the rebuild, you've still got a frame that's been on fire and is probably severely compromised from that heat. I wouldn't trust it in a crash. That poor car is done for. F.
I guess the one piece of information missing is what the fire suppression would have cost to prevent this level of damage and personal injury… I guess probably 1000 - 2000… Also good to have radios in case of emergency or communication needs… It seems the behaviour on track is kind of bizarre just observing a fire…
Thanks for the comments: Indeed that cost is about 1500 euro for a good capacity system, AFFF. With NOVEC gas that is 2000 +. Another point is indeed a radio system for all drivers for the purpose of warnings or more marshalls
Thanks, well the point is that `i did do a full 8 hour check on the car... all fluids were changed and the engine verified , including the brakes and all the rest. I always do this very seriously. I told the owner that having the battery next to the gastank and next to the highpressure fule pomp and filters all in the back was not a good design. He agreed and this winter , I would modify this for him. The fire started exactly in that area, based on what I found it was either caused by these two possibilities: 1.) During re-fueling , fuel was spilled and trapped at the bottom of the right rear lower panels ( that is the hot spot on the burnd car). Note that the filler cap is directly over the hotspot . 2.) either the high pressure fuel pomp / filter or hoses started to leak and spilled fuel in the same place. I could smell the fuel while drivong behind him.... I am sure that the fuel ignited by backfire / sparks out of the exhaust as that blows directly under the car and ignited the fuel....
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Hi Steve, when I see all the cables I get nightmares...Great video👍🏻🙋🏻
I would not mind the cables as an electronics engineer, but the other work is tremendous
@@D3Sshooter The effort is too high with this car...Greetings🙋🏻
Hi Steve, i think comparing the cost of rebuild to what you could get on the second hand front, the latter is possibly the best way to go, obviously depends on what your friend wants to pay, for that sort of money you will get a good setup and a lot newer with available body parts if you get a well known make, not commented for a while but still watch and love the channel.
Thanks David, he decided not to get it repaired ( cost is to high) instead he is selling it for parts.. Don't worry about not commenting, its fine
Glad to see you’re wearing gloves for the strip down; I was a little worried when you had bare hands in the first video, because when certain fluoro elastomer materials (some types of o-rings) can generate harmful compounds including hydrofluoric acid when they’re subjected to extreme heat.
Thanks and indeed , not the best thing to work on...
With labor at 100 euros an hour (my guess for a race mechanic in Europe) and about 100 hours of work minimum to do the rebuild, there is another 10,000 euros. Also need to add seat belts, fire suppression system and certified re-inspection and there is another 1,500 to 2,000 euros. Now looking at 23k to 25k total for the rebuild if done by a professional. Bet you can buy a darn good car for that price to replace the damaged one. Have to agree that unless there is some huge sentimental value or specialty about this car (which I doubt as it appears to be a Caterham or Caterham clone and your friend just bought it), best path appears to be to sell for parts and buy a replacement vehicle. The only caveat to this is if you are going to monetize it by doing a rebuild series on the car, but I don't know if you will earn enough to offset all the work you will have to do.
You really hit home with the point about the fire suppression system being basically junk unless it was tubed into the various potential fire-starting points. Even if you friend had stopped quickly and gotten out of the car with the extinguisher, there was no access to the fire point with all the panels that were in the way.
You are 100% spot on.... The car is not going to be rebuild and is up for sale as parts.... Thanks for the write-up.
My MGTF has had a fire starting at the carburettors with similar damage to the front end. Interesting watching your approach.
That happens sometimes, did yours turned out OK after the fire and repairs ? For this one, the owner decided not to repair it
'i hope you enjoyed this video'. Its not one a person can enjoy but i get your meaning. Its a tough fate for a nice car.
Tnanks, well enjoy is in terms of providing and you watching a video.. Of course not the disaster issue
This is an informative video. The costs add up quickly. Repairs to new cars are in the stratosphere these days with all the sensors and sub-assemblies.
That is so true
I would like to see you resurrect the phoenix so to speak. It sounds like you are approaching or exceeding the value of the vehicle especially if labor is included. It may make sense to do a restoration if it is a rare or otherwise “special” vehicle. You have not indicated this is the case and most people don’t buy special vehicles to race in high speed competitions. This is unfortunate for your friend. Sometimes I have thought in the past you take more care than perhaps is necessary when doing maintenance or a rebuild. This has shown me that what you do is exactly what is required for proper and safe operation of the vehicle in all conditions. Thanks for doing it right and showing viewers how to do it right.
Thanks for the comments, the owner decided not to fix it and I agree with him. As for the car and the work that was done. I had checked - up the car a few months ago after he bought it. Checked all components , as I always do. Placed new seatbelds in, changed all the engine fluids, checked the brakes etc... ( I have a video on that ). One of the points I raised was the gastank and the Battery and electrical fuel pomp all sitting so close to eachother, Recommended do change that. That was not done and he decided to do that later. Anyhow, the car seemed to be in a good condition. as to the fire itself, two options.... he spilled fuel when filling it up, that ignited by sparks from exauhst at that corner ( as `i could smell fuel behind him) or the hoses/ fuel pomp/ filter/ neck/overflow had an issue and leaked, sparked by the exhaust..
Is it cheaper to buy another car ? 😮
Strength there and to your friend.
It's a lot of work and will cost a lot. I still think it would be great if you restore this car and make videos about it.
A couple of comments. That coil looks like a standard Ford coil (BOSCH 0 221 503 487) and costs about 50 euros.
If that ECU has to be replaced, it's probably easier to replace it with a newer model, for example MaxxECU. Its ecu doesn't need to be very complicated as it only has 4 cylinders and a waste spark coil.
Thanks, this time the owner decided not to get it repaired ...
I think the car is repairable but it’s a long ,dirty, job to get all the damaged parts out. The chassis will be ok as the fire will have been extinguished fairly quickly at the track. It would not have got hot enough to soften the steel in any way. Looking at the damage i would say it started as an electrical fault that then spread and melted a fuel line. One it’s all cleaned up I think it might surprise you.
Well the car is sold and will be repaired by the new owner, thanks for the comments
I dont know if it looked better or worse than I expected once you'd stripped the damage.... Probably easier to start from scratch with a new kit
Indeed, the car will not be fixed and sold in pieces
Hate to rub salt into an open wound but i would be worried about the rear chassis, roll cage and suspension components too. Obviously anything metallic got very hot which may have effected it's strength.
Worth a call to a metallurgy expert if you know someone.
Indeed, that is one of the reasons it will not be repaired and used for parts only
Even if you spend all that money on parts, and all the time and effort to complete the rebuild, you've still got a frame that's been on fire and is probably severely compromised from that heat. I wouldn't trust it in a crash. That poor car is done for. F.
Indeed, and that is why I decided to tell the owner not to rebuild it...high cost and frame issue as you stated
I guess the one piece of information missing is what the fire suppression would have cost to prevent this level of damage and personal injury… I guess probably 1000 - 2000… Also good to have radios in case of emergency or communication needs… It seems the behaviour on track is kind of bizarre just observing a fire…
Thanks for the comments: Indeed that cost is about 1500 euro for a good capacity system, AFFF. With NOVEC gas that is 2000 +. Another point is indeed a radio system for all drivers for the purpose of warnings or more marshalls
I would be concerned with the structural strength of the rear of the car steve heat can cause changes in the tubing and welds
Indeed, that is also why it was decided not to rebuild it . But sell it as is for a low price
It's a shame he did not get you to do a pre check before the track day to maybe avoid this disaster.
Is there insurance for race cars Steve?
Thanks, well the point is that `i did do a full 8 hour check on the car... all fluids were changed and the engine verified , including the brakes and all the rest. I always do this very seriously. I told the owner that having the battery next to the gastank and next to the highpressure fule pomp and filters all in the back was not a good design. He agreed and this winter , I would modify this for him. The fire started exactly in that area, based on what I found it was either caused by these two possibilities: 1.) During re-fueling , fuel was spilled and trapped at the bottom of the right rear lower panels ( that is the hot spot on the burnd car). Note that the filler cap is directly over the hotspot . 2.) either the high pressure fuel pomp / filter or hoses started to leak and spilled fuel in the same place. I could smell the fuel while drivong behind him.... I am sure that the fuel ignited by backfire / sparks out of the exhaust as that blows directly under the car and ignited the fuel....
@@D3Sshooter oh that's very unlucky for him. You are very thorough in your work.
I hope he can afford to get another car.
Was it a lithium Ion battery ?
No normal acid
Is this now your car ? or just doing favour for owner?
He is a friend, and I helped him out
Add two seat belts to the cost of repair.
yes indeed
Part it out. Or sell as a project.
Indeed