Before increasing current check the max current the inductor can transfer. Balancing process start at 100mV difference. Also, balancing current depend of the voltage difference between 2 cells. Balancing stop at 30mV difference. Than batteries change their voltage (usually lower a bit) and that's why you see 50mV. Anyway, out of balance of 50mV is perfectly acceptable.
Issue with these particular leap frog inductive balancers, ETA3000 chip, is lack of synchronization between the overlapping chips arrangement. They start out synchronized but diverge over run time. What this means is one chip can be pushing or pulling current to a cell while the adjacent chip is making its voltage comparison between that cell and the next further away cell in string. The implementation using a common wire to two adjacent cells' junction also contributes to issue as there can be pump current through the same wire while voltage is being compared by adjacent chip. A single chip shuts down its switching transfer while making its two-cell voltage comparison but it has no knowledge that adjacent chip might be pumping current into or out of one of the cells being voltage compared. They would work great if all series leap-frogged chips were synchronized so they all stop switching and make cell voltage comparison at the same time.
How do you know this? did you test the ICs over a long period of time? Or is it just a hunch? What if you toggle the EN pin, does it resynchronize them?
omg so much rare knowledge in one tiny comment. thanks. i have been plugging and unplugging it every now n then. i think i need to make a switch or something.
Hey, I think 1 amp is good to balance even a bigger battery. You have to consider that is capture 1A from one cell and move to the other cell. That means that the difference is moving 2Ah. that means that you can ballance 50Ah per day. But if you have a battery that much different, you have a bigger problem than balancing. What do you think?
Very very good explained down to the circuit diagram. That means with such an active balancer there would be no need anymore for a daly bms, if you have a Wanptek KPS30100D where you can set the end voltage to 28.2V and for example the max charching current to 50A assuming having a 8S 100Ah LIFEPO4.
Hi, as you mentioned 50A is the maximum charge current. so you can charge is less than that and for the power supply you mentioned maximum current is 10A, so you set it to 10A and set voltage to 28.2V.
thank you for the video. I found the video personally really long. if u could digest the information into maybe a 15 min -17 min video that might be helpful. thank you
We have make everyone happy. If I don’t agive information then people ask exact party which I skipped. So I leaned not leave any information. Viewer can skip any part they don’t like specially when the video has chapter to jump to difficulty section.
Thank you so much for your good explaining, i bought 50 pcs 4s balancer 1.2a and connect to 4s lipo battery and put them in charge, but after few hours, i check voltage, some cells more than 4.3V 😳 and anothers have almost 0.1v different voltage, that's mean balancer not connected, do you know why?
yes, this is not a protection BMS, this is an active balancer. You need a BMS with an IC protection circuit and no/minimum passive balancing, in addition to the active balancer. Otherwise, your cells will overcharge.
oh, i bought a 5A 14S active balancer for my 58.8v 22A battery pack, how much amps should i give that pack for fast charging? im using the pack for an e-bike
Hi, each battery has maximum charge rate. You should find it. but the lower the charge rate, the longer the battery life (in most batteries). So if you charge it at 1A which is 1A/hour, it will be charged in 22 hours to fill a 22A/h battery. or 2A at 11 hour. or 4A in in 5.5A. In some batteries the maximum charge current is 50% of the value of capacity in your case 50% of 22 = 11A. But I don't know if tha is the value for your battery. The larger the current, the larger the amount of heat and chimial reaction so it would be dangrouse. But for 22A/h battery 5A charge current seems normal.
great TY for another informative vid , I have purchased some BMS's for a dual Pwr Pack to feed Amp's to a E-Bike , top of the line [ "ANT BMS w/BT App 120A continuous capable /350A 1-20sec peak " ] and that just before finding about active balancing ={ , can't return them now ; my BMS have passive balancing that i can deactivate with its app , would it be possible to add an active balancing board to it ? The other option for me is to sell them ( with a big loss i can add ) get a bms that is with active balancing after , losing $ , then spending more $ . So a active balancing board that has it's own app and ( can it be added to a std BMS ? ) can be controlled easely . Any connection schematic suggestion as how to make them work as a team ? Thank you once more & Cheers from Montréal =D
@@WattHour sir it's duck clutch also callled auto clutch' for manual car to drive left leg disability which connects obd 2/ canbus system of car when press acceleration clutch automatically respond This system clutch actuator pully sycro with car ecu like speed rpm padals position In our market it's too much costly
@@manusharma4444 -- sounds like the electric clutch VW offered for their "Beetle" with the regular 4-speed manual transmission. They connected a microswitch that would have the clutch disengage the instant someone began moving the gearshift lever. When they let go, the clutch would then engage. I assume it had a "slow" engagement so as to have a smooth start. Or, it MAY have also included a torque converter, I can't remember -- this was circa 1970 as I recall. I never drove one, but knew someone that had one, and I remember reading about it in a magazine during that timeframe. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure they did use a torque converter, and a simple "on/off" engagement of the clutch. This was their way of being able to sell cars to people who could not master the clutch (since VW did not have an automatic transaxle they could use).
@@manusharma4444 -- Heck, nothing *_I_* can do about it other than suggest looking for a VW Beetle made in the 1970s. Or, just buy a car with an automatic transmission.
hello, nice videos but I am not sure why it is a joke to use the 1A module on a 100Ah battery as the batteries should be close in charge anyway. It is not like you are putting an empty and a full cell in a series pack and the module has to balance 100Ah ( working for 50h even so, the both cells will be at 50Ah each). Balancing a few Ah between very large cells 100Ah plus, should be fine with 1A I suppose, as it will take just a few h to complete and all the cells are balanced.
Imagine if there is 8A is needed to be balanced it would take 8 hours and it would be from morning to evening. For 100A it should e at least 5a to 10A discharge rate.
@@WattHour Its the relative capacity you should worry about. So a lets be stupid with a 1000Ah pack and a 1A balancer. Because it transfers power rather than burning the power in a resistor, it actually transfers almost 2x what it's rated for, so a 1A balancer with 80% efficiency would transfer effectively 1.8A between the cells because 1A leaves one cell and 0.8A enters the other cell so the board is almost 2x as powerful as it appears. But again lets be dumb and assume 1A only on a 1000A battery (10X larger than you criticized). You are correct if you just added a dead cell into a charged pack... that would be dumb because it would take ages (500-1000 hours depending on transfer efficiency). But lets look at reality. A 1000Ah pack is going to be closely matched. Lets assume the cells are 100Ah each, so that is 3s10p configuration. Since each parallel bank is the total capacity of all cells, it will be VERY close to the other banks, probably around less than 1 Ah, at most 10Ah, so a 1A transfer balancer would balance the pack in UNDER 10 hours at most... at a pack 10X the size you had a problem with. It only takes ages on packs that have DUMB configurations like if someone put a 200Ah cell and a 100Ah cell in series... then it would be as bad as you think. Relative differences are all that is really needed to know. My pack is a 3s16p design and is 30Ah, when this was connected, my BMS managed to get my battery to have banks 1 and 2 go fully dead (0V) while bank 3 was at 4.3V... very bad. It took about 30 hours to transfer the power across the cells because it basically transferred 60Ah, 30 from bank 3 to bank 2 and then 30 from bank 2 to bank 1... at the same time mind you but still... yikes. However, most of the time wasn't from low max current of 1.2A, rather from the current decreasing as the voltage difference is lower. So near the end it transferred VERY low current. However, even at a 20A charge rate, the current transfer of the balancer is less than 0.3A... because my pack was almost perfectly matched which is impressive since I used cells I salvaged from e-waste piles.
Parabéns pelo vídeo. Eu estou usando uma placa dessa de 20S, com uma bateria de 72v. Porém está esquentando muito, as luzes estão apagadas e mesmo assim está esquentando. Sabe o motivo?
isso é estranho se esquentar sem que a corrente atinja o valor CC. Lembre-se de que 85C é muito normal e este módulo pode suportar até 120C, então você não deve se preocupar, mas observe atentamente para ver se de repente a temperatura aumenta.
Hello, Liitokala is a brand and they have so many product. search my channel. Here is how to find Specific TH-cam Video in a channel bit.ly/findTH-camVideo
Before increasing current check the max current the inductor can transfer. Balancing process start at 100mV difference. Also, balancing current depend of the voltage difference between 2 cells. Balancing stop at 30mV difference. Than batteries change their voltage (usually lower a bit) and that's why you see 50mV. Anyway, out of balance of 50mV is perfectly acceptable.
Issue with these particular leap frog inductive balancers, ETA3000 chip, is lack of synchronization between the overlapping chips arrangement. They start out synchronized but diverge over run time.
What this means is one chip can be pushing or pulling current to a cell while the adjacent chip is making its voltage comparison between that cell and the next further away cell in string.
The implementation using a common wire to two adjacent cells' junction also contributes to issue as there can be pump current through the same wire while voltage is being compared by adjacent chip.
A single chip shuts down its switching transfer while making its two-cell voltage comparison but it has no knowledge that adjacent chip might be pumping current into or out of one of the cells being voltage compared.
They would work great if all series leap-frogged chips were synchronized so they all stop switching and make cell voltage comparison at the same time.
How do you know this? did you test the ICs over a long period of time? Or is it just a hunch? What if you toggle the EN pin, does it resynchronize them?
omg so much rare knowledge in one tiny comment. thanks. i have been plugging and unplugging it every now n then. i think i need to make a switch or something.
Hey, I think 1 amp is good to balance even a bigger battery. You have to consider that is capture 1A from one cell and move to the other cell. That means that the difference is moving 2Ah. that means that you can ballance 50Ah per day. But if you have a battery that much different, you have a bigger problem than balancing. What do you think?
Very very good explained down to the circuit diagram. That means with such an active balancer there would be no need anymore for a daly bms, if you have a Wanptek KPS30100D where you can set the end voltage to 28.2V and for example the max charching current to 50A assuming having a 8S 100Ah LIFEPO4.
Hi, as you mentioned 50A is the maximum charge current. so you can charge is less than that and for the power supply you mentioned maximum current is 10A, so you set it to 10A and set voltage to 28.2V.
thank you for the video. I found the video personally really long. if u could digest the information into maybe a 15 min -17 min video that might be helpful. thank you
We have make everyone happy. If I don’t agive information then people ask exact party which I skipped. So I leaned not leave any information. Viewer can skip any part they don’t like specially when the video has chapter to jump to difficulty section.
Amazing video !!
thank you for putting this out and help me understand some things I didn't know
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome! Thank you, WattHour
Another great video, good job mate!
so you like to be nagged every minute to like and subscribe?
Do you have a video for the capacitive type?TIA
Thank you so much for your good explaining, i bought 50 pcs 4s balancer 1.2a and connect to 4s lipo battery and put them in charge, but after few hours, i check voltage, some cells more than 4.3V 😳 and anothers have almost 0.1v different voltage, that's mean balancer not connected, do you know why?
cuttoff charging is charger and bms job, not balancer, you always need bms
yes, this is not a protection BMS, this is an active balancer. You need a BMS with an IC protection circuit and no/minimum passive balancing, in addition to the active balancer. Otherwise, your cells will overcharge.
oh, i bought a 5A 14S active balancer for my 58.8v 22A battery pack, how much amps should i give that pack for fast charging? im using the pack for an e-bike
Hi, each battery has maximum charge rate. You should find it. but the lower the charge rate, the longer the battery life (in most batteries). So if you charge it at 1A which is 1A/hour, it will be charged in 22 hours to fill a 22A/h battery. or 2A at 11 hour. or 4A in in 5.5A. In some batteries the maximum charge current is 50% of the value of capacity in your case 50% of 22 = 11A. But I don't know if tha is the value for your battery. The larger the current, the larger the amount of heat and chimial reaction so it would be dangrouse. But for 22A/h battery 5A charge current seems normal.
Good
Nice review, too bad you damaged the chip before testing it, but you could try Changing the burnt components to see if it would work
HOW TO IENTIFY THE CHIPS ??? I HAVE COUPLE OF THESE
Can I the 4s balancer on my 3s battery pack?
great TY for another informative vid , I have purchased some BMS's for a dual Pwr Pack to feed Amp's to a E-Bike , top of the line [ "ANT BMS w/BT App 120A continuous capable /350A 1-20sec peak " ] and that just before finding about active balancing ={ , can't return them now ; my BMS have passive balancing that i can deactivate with its app , would it be possible to add an active balancing board to it ? The other option for me is to sell them ( with a big loss i can add ) get a bms that is with active balancing after , losing $ , then spending more $ . So a active balancing board that has it's own app and ( can it be added to a std BMS ? ) can be controlled easely . Any connection schematic suggestion as how to make them work as a team ? Thank you once more & Cheers from Montréal =D
I really appreciate your work
Please explain duck clutch for manual car
I have never hard "duck clutch" is is related to automotive? or is it RC car related?
@@WattHour sir it's duck clutch also callled auto clutch' for manual car to drive left leg disability which connects obd 2/ canbus system of car when press acceleration clutch automatically respond
This system clutch actuator pully sycro with car ecu like speed rpm padals position
In our market it's too much costly
@@manusharma4444 -- sounds like the electric clutch VW offered for their "Beetle" with the regular 4-speed manual transmission.
They connected a microswitch that would have the clutch disengage the instant someone began moving the gearshift lever. When they let go, the clutch would then engage. I assume it had a "slow" engagement so as to have a smooth start. Or, it MAY have also included a torque converter, I can't remember -- this was circa 1970 as I recall. I never drove one, but knew someone that had one, and I remember reading about it in a magazine during that timeframe.
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure they did use a torque converter, and a simple "on/off" engagement of the clutch.
This was their way of being able to sell cars to people who could not master the clutch (since VW did not have an automatic transaxle they could use).
@@This_is_my_real_name please need this system
@@manusharma4444 -- Heck, nothing *_I_* can do about it other than suggest looking for a VW Beetle made in the 1970s.
Or, just buy a car with an automatic transmission.
hello, nice videos but I am not sure why it is a joke to use the 1A module on a 100Ah battery as the batteries should be close in charge anyway. It is not like you are putting an empty and a full cell in a series pack and the module has to balance 100Ah ( working for 50h even so, the both cells will be at 50Ah each). Balancing a few Ah between very large cells 100Ah plus, should be fine with 1A I suppose, as it will take just a few h to complete and all the cells are balanced.
Imagine if there is 8A is needed to be balanced it would take 8 hours and it would be from morning to evening. For 100A it should e at least 5a to 10A discharge rate.
@@WattHour Its the relative capacity you should worry about. So a lets be stupid with a 1000Ah pack and a 1A balancer. Because it transfers power rather than burning the power in a resistor, it actually transfers almost 2x what it's rated for, so a 1A balancer with 80% efficiency would transfer effectively 1.8A between the cells because 1A leaves one cell and 0.8A enters the other cell so the board is almost 2x as powerful as it appears. But again lets be dumb and assume 1A only on a 1000A battery (10X larger than you criticized).
You are correct if you just added a dead cell into a charged pack... that would be dumb because it would take ages (500-1000 hours depending on transfer efficiency). But lets look at reality. A 1000Ah pack is going to be closely matched. Lets assume the cells are 100Ah each, so that is 3s10p configuration. Since each parallel bank is the total capacity of all cells, it will be VERY close to the other banks, probably around less than 1 Ah, at most 10Ah, so a 1A transfer balancer would balance the pack in UNDER 10 hours at most... at a pack 10X the size you had a problem with. It only takes ages on packs that have DUMB configurations like if someone put a 200Ah cell and a 100Ah cell in series... then it would be as bad as you think.
Relative differences are all that is really needed to know. My pack is a 3s16p design and is 30Ah, when this was connected, my BMS managed to get my battery to have banks 1 and 2 go fully dead (0V) while bank 3 was at 4.3V... very bad. It took about 30 hours to transfer the power across the cells because it basically transferred 60Ah, 30 from bank 3 to bank 2 and then 30 from bank 2 to bank 1... at the same time mind you but still... yikes. However, most of the time wasn't from low max current of 1.2A, rather from the current decreasing as the voltage difference is lower. So near the end it transferred VERY low current. However, even at a 20A charge rate, the current transfer of the balancer is less than 0.3A... because my pack was almost perfectly matched which is impressive since I used cells I salvaged from e-waste piles.
Can we trun on and off this inductive active balancer depending upon the battery voltage?
It seems you did not pay attention at what I said on the video. It is automatically connected and disconnected. Please watch.
@@WattHourplease be gentle and polite in your reply
can i use this modules without a bms ?
yes and that's how I shown it.
Awesome video, thanks 👍
Can you review LRS-350-12 and LRS-350-24
Both are AC to DC converter made by MEANWELL Company
I can review it if they pay me for sure. They should contact me via www.watthour.ca contact page
We have fully equipped lab to test any load with any power requirement. Less than $250 per review for items less than $100.
How about i put the BMS at the same time i put the active balance tp. It's that working..??
I have have mentioned yes you can. You have skipped. I spend three days to make this video. Please watch . It has full of important information.
bms is always needed, with or without active balancer
I have problem with my school project about make a PCB balance by ETA3000 Can you help me ,Please
Does 16s module works with 13s battery ??
Anyone could answer me please ?
Parabéns pelo vídeo. Eu estou usando uma placa dessa de 20S, com uma bateria de 72v. Porém está esquentando muito, as luzes estão apagadas e mesmo assim está esquentando. Sabe o motivo?
isso é estranho se esquentar sem que a corrente atinja o valor CC. Lembre-se de que 85C é muito normal e este módulo pode suportar até 120C, então você não deve se preocupar, mas observe atentamente para ver se de repente a temperatura aumenta.
@@WattHour obrigado
Mr Ahmad Samsiri, right? *Robojac channel
Yes . Here we focus on energy
@@WattHour I'm very lucky - find your another channel 😀
anyone know what the connector type is?
👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👌
Are you have another channel robojax?
Yes
Hello, where is the Liitokala video?
Hello, Liitokala is a brand and they have so many product. search my channel. Here is how to find Specific TH-cam Video in a channel bit.ly/findTH-camVideo
Did you find it?
Wait! That's robojax
yes indeed. welcome JEC
14:30 Mistake. To change balancing current you must change the resistor AND change the inductor to match.
that's correct. you must have skipped. I mentioned all components. Watch again.
@@WattHour - I didn't skip anything. Your video contains a mistake. Your rude and arrogant replies make me want to unsubscribe to this channel.
@@johncoops6897he did mention it at 13:30. You might want to watch it again, get off your high horse
@@johncoops6897even got the timestamp wrong rofl, clown
Yes.Bro....
But.....made.in.china.....and.price...
We go to hell.....
they are crap !!!! THEY BURN VERY EASY!!!! I LOST 30 EUROS