Sehr schönes Video! Ich frage mich, wie der genaue Seilverlauf ist, habe bei 8:14 aber immerhin gesehen, dass rechts die "feste Seite" des Seils ist 😀 Man sieht anhand der Seilpaare am Gegengewicht und auf der Kabine, dass jeweils eines doppelt (?) so schnell unterwegs ist, wie das andere. Ich fände es toll, wenn Du gerade bei so "komplizierten" Seilverläufen ein schematisches Bildchen o.ä einblenden könntest, wenn es nicht zu aufwändig ist. Ansonsten finde ich den generellen Aufbau Deiner Videos "Fahrtverlauf-Maschinenraum-Aufzugsschacht" sehr gelungen, das zieht sich wie ein roter Faden durch Deine Videos.
Freut mich, dass dir mein Content gefällt! Genau, von der Tür her gesehen ist rechts an der Kabine die feste Seite und ganz links geht es zur Treibscheibe. Am Gegengewicht ist die Treibscheibe zur Schachtmitte hin und hinten in der Ecke ist wieder die feste Seite. Ich habe auch schon darüber nachgedacht, für verschiedene Sachen spezifische Erklärvideos zu machen, dazu ist es aber aufgrund meines limitierten Zeitbudgets bisher nicht gekommen. Es gibt auch einige Anlagekonzepte bei denen die Seilführung sehr verwirrend ist, Stichwort Kone PowerDisc. Die 4:1 Aufhängung hier ist hingegen bei grösseren Lastenaufzügen sehr verbreitet. Auf Wikipedia findet sich ein allgemeines Bild zu den gängigen Aufhängungsprinzipien: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Aufhängungsarten_richtig.jpg Natürlich gibt es dazu auch noch weitere Fälle wie z.B. 3:1, aber das ist extrem selten.
Very nice modernization In addition the glass doors on the ground floor and the 2nd are not commonly use what is not a bad thing. I worked recently at the Geneva-Airport station on the quays and the freight-lifts are similar to this one but they are hydraulic and on the other hand they were also modernized last year but the inner doors was added and we no longer see the floors scroll inside the cabin.
I think in 2018/2019 the regulations changed and now inner doors must be added, no more light curtains like here. But I'm not 100% sure, it just came to my attention that I have not yet found this type of mod newer than 2018. I know an identical mod like this on a lift from 1989, also from 2018, but that only has 2000 kg capacity and is 2:1.
I always wondered why different rope and pulley configurations are used. I can assume it has to do with how the weight is distributed, and here we see quite a complex implementation. The counterweight has two sheeves, not sure why.
The roping configurations are the most effective way to either favour speed or capacity of a lift. There are many different options, but the simplest to being called "1:1" or "2:1". With 1:1, the rope is connected directly to the lift car at one end and to the counterweight at the other end. Therefore, the traction sheave will spin with the same speed as the lift moves and it also needs to handle the full tangential force resulting in the weight difference between cab and counterweight. This is used for smaller lifts and or very fast lifts. The next step would be the above mentioned 2:1 roping. The ropes are now fixed in the shaft ceiling, go down to the cab over a pulley, back up to the traction sheave, down over a pulley on the counterweight side and then they're fixed in the shaft head again. This system results in the lift only moving at half the speed of the traction sheave and the motor only needs half the torque because the other half of the weight is now supported by the fixed end of the cable. Or: As we still can use the full load / torque range of the motor, we can now double the capacity. So long story short: Going from 1:1 to 2:1 without changing anything about the motor and gearbox results in a lift with half the speed but double the capacity. Now, what you see here on this lift is called 4:1, with there being 4 ropes on each side. This means that compared to 1:1 we have 4x the capacity and 1/4 of the speed. There is some technical data of the lift in the video description - but to illustrate it with numbers: The traction sheave has a circumferential speed of 2.5m/s, resulting in the lift moving at 0.63m/s, which is 1/4 of 2.5. To sum it up: This type of roping reduces load on the gearbox because the weight of the lift car, cargo and counterweight is shared between multiple fixed points, it reduces the amount/size of ropes needed but increases their length and it affects the gearbox reduction ratio (more speed but less torque is needed).
You can see all those retrofits of guards they did, to get it to comply with the updated regulations. Guard on the main motor, guards on the top of car, rails on the side, but no guards on the counterweight sheaves, or the idler pulleys.
Yes, the guards in the motor room were all added during the modernisation. The ones on the car top are original from when the lift was built. Guards on the counterweight sheaves are not required.
@@TheLiftDragon Think some of the top car guards are later, with the red oxide paint on them. Original Schindler factory would have had them in the same grey paint as the rest of the car. Had to add them on the car as well with updated moving machinery regulations, paid for by Schindler as part of the maintenance contract. I did upgrade car interior lights though, and the under car light as well, because the bare bulbs were kind of hazardous, so they got enclosed cages. Inside car went to 1.2m fittings, though it was a pain to get the old 900mm ballasts out, seeing as they were attached to the car chassis, and still powered, even if there were no lamps installed. Old autotransformer ballasts with magnetic shunts and heater windings, still taking 30W each all the time. Once they, and all the DCC wire they had, were removed the new fittings simply were slid into position, and provided much more light, especially after cleaning out the few kilograms of dirt and rubbish from the light bays. Double fittings, but with both tubes in parallel, so that they would only have one tube at a time light, and only a single 40W ballast installed. Double the lifetime then, as only one tube would heat up and strike.
@@SeanBZA I was talking about the guards of the deflecting sheaves, the metal sheets. They are original. The red guard rail on the car top is also original since it is the same red as the red on the counterweight and track mounts. But the galvanised, shiny rail in front of the counterweight is new. Here in Switzerland we don't have under car light and usually also no car top light, there is just shaft light. The portable car top LED you can see here, which also has a battery integrated, is supplied with the BP408 controller. Other controllers don't have it and it's not mandatory. As you can see here, the light bulbs are the old shaft light and during modernisation the fluorescent lamps on the other side of the shaft have been added. The old shaft light turns on directly with the motor room light and the new shaft light can be turned on with a button on the inspection control.
Danke. Ziehl-Abegg ist sehr weit verbreitet uind stellt Frequenzumrichter, sowie Aufzugsmotoren und Ventilatoren her. Also generell Antriebstechnik. Die Umrichter von ZA werden von sehr vielen Firmen verbaut, so auch bei den Anlagen bei dir im Haus.
The TH-cam algorithm has recommended my newer videos to more people lately. Well it seems you found it at least somehow interesting when you watched it all the way through xD
Finally, i already gave up on waiting for this video to be uploaded🤣
Ah so you remember the TH-cam Short of this from almost a year ago xD
@@TheLiftDragon yes i do, and i was also very excited about it😂
Sehr schönes Video!
Ich frage mich, wie der genaue Seilverlauf ist, habe bei 8:14 aber immerhin gesehen, dass rechts die "feste Seite" des Seils ist 😀
Man sieht anhand der Seilpaare am Gegengewicht und auf der Kabine, dass jeweils eines doppelt (?) so schnell unterwegs ist, wie das andere.
Ich fände es toll, wenn Du gerade bei so "komplizierten" Seilverläufen ein schematisches Bildchen o.ä einblenden könntest, wenn es nicht zu aufwändig ist.
Ansonsten finde ich den generellen Aufbau Deiner Videos "Fahrtverlauf-Maschinenraum-Aufzugsschacht" sehr gelungen, das zieht sich wie ein roter Faden durch Deine Videos.
Freut mich, dass dir mein Content gefällt!
Genau, von der Tür her gesehen ist rechts an der Kabine die feste Seite und ganz links geht es zur Treibscheibe. Am Gegengewicht ist die Treibscheibe zur Schachtmitte hin und hinten in der Ecke ist wieder die feste Seite.
Ich habe auch schon darüber nachgedacht, für verschiedene Sachen spezifische Erklärvideos zu machen, dazu ist es aber aufgrund meines limitierten Zeitbudgets bisher nicht gekommen. Es gibt auch einige Anlagekonzepte bei denen die Seilführung sehr verwirrend ist, Stichwort Kone PowerDisc. Die 4:1 Aufhängung hier ist hingegen bei grösseren Lastenaufzügen sehr verbreitet. Auf Wikipedia findet sich ein allgemeines Bild zu den gängigen Aufhängungsprinzipien: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Aufhängungsarten_richtig.jpg
Natürlich gibt es dazu auch noch weitere Fälle wie z.B. 3:1, aber das ist extrem selten.
Very nice modernization In addition the glass doors on the ground floor and the 2nd are not commonly use what is not a bad thing. I worked recently at the Geneva-Airport station on the quays and the freight-lifts are similar to this one but they are hydraulic and on the other hand they were also modernized last year but the inner doors was added and we no longer see the floors scroll inside the cabin.
I think in 2018/2019 the regulations changed and now inner doors must be added, no more light curtains like here. But I'm not 100% sure, it just came to my attention that I have not yet found this type of mod newer than 2018. I know an identical mod like this on a lift from 1989, also from 2018, but that only has 2000 kg capacity and is 2:1.
I always wondered why different rope and pulley configurations are used. I can assume it has to do with how the weight is distributed, and here we see quite a complex implementation. The counterweight has two sheeves, not sure why.
The roping configurations are the most effective way to either favour speed or capacity of a lift. There are many different options, but the simplest to being called "1:1" or "2:1". With 1:1, the rope is connected directly to the lift car at one end and to the counterweight at the other end. Therefore, the traction sheave will spin with the same speed as the lift moves and it also needs to handle the full tangential force resulting in the weight difference between cab and counterweight. This is used for smaller lifts and or very fast lifts.
The next step would be the above mentioned 2:1 roping. The ropes are now fixed in the shaft ceiling, go down to the cab over a pulley, back up to the traction sheave, down over a pulley on the counterweight side and then they're fixed in the shaft head again. This system results in the lift only moving at half the speed of the traction sheave and the motor only needs half the torque because the other half of the weight is now supported by the fixed end of the cable. Or: As we still can use the full load / torque range of the motor, we can now double the capacity. So long story short: Going from 1:1 to 2:1 without changing anything about the motor and gearbox results in a lift with half the speed but double the capacity. Now, what you see here on this lift is called 4:1, with there being 4 ropes on each side. This means that compared to 1:1 we have 4x the capacity and 1/4 of the speed. There is some technical data of the lift in the video description - but to illustrate it with numbers: The traction sheave has a circumferential speed of 2.5m/s, resulting in the lift moving at 0.63m/s, which is 1/4 of 2.5.
To sum it up: This type of roping reduces load on the gearbox because the weight of the lift car, cargo and counterweight is shared between multiple fixed points, it reduces the amount/size of ropes needed but increases their length and it affects the gearbox reduction ratio (more speed but less torque is needed).
Epic Schindlers!
Indeed!
You can see all those retrofits of guards they did, to get it to comply with the updated regulations. Guard on the main motor, guards on the top of car, rails on the side, but no guards on the counterweight sheaves, or the idler pulleys.
Yes, the guards in the motor room were all added during the modernisation. The ones on the car top are original from when the lift was built. Guards on the counterweight sheaves are not required.
@@TheLiftDragon Think some of the top car guards are later, with the red oxide paint on them. Original Schindler factory would have had them in the same grey paint as the rest of the car. Had to add them on the car as well with updated moving machinery regulations, paid for by Schindler as part of the maintenance contract. I did upgrade car interior lights though, and the under car light as well, because the bare bulbs were kind of hazardous, so they got enclosed cages. Inside car went to 1.2m fittings, though it was a pain to get the old 900mm ballasts out, seeing as they were attached to the car chassis, and still powered, even if there were no lamps installed. Old autotransformer ballasts with magnetic shunts and heater windings, still taking 30W each all the time.
Once they, and all the DCC wire they had, were removed the new fittings simply were slid into position, and provided much more light, especially after cleaning out the few kilograms of dirt and rubbish from the light bays. Double fittings, but with both tubes in parallel, so that they would only have one tube at a time light, and only a single 40W ballast installed. Double the lifetime then, as only one tube would heat up and strike.
@@SeanBZA I was talking about the guards of the deflecting sheaves, the metal sheets. They are original.
The red guard rail on the car top is also original since it is the same red as the red on the counterweight and track mounts. But the galvanised, shiny rail in front of the counterweight is new.
Here in Switzerland we don't have under car light and usually also no car top light, there is just shaft light. The portable car top LED you can see here, which also has a battery integrated, is supplied with the BP408 controller. Other controllers don't have it and it's not mandatory.
As you can see here, the light bulbs are the old shaft light and during modernisation the fluorescent lamps on the other side of the shaft have been added. The old shaft light turns on directly with the motor room light and the new shaft light can be turned on with a button on the inspection control.
@@TheLiftDragon Different standards then, by me pretty common to have lights top and bottom of car, and then lights in the pit, but nowhere else.
schöne Aufnahme! Ziehl-Abegg kenne ich nicht.
Danke.
Ziehl-Abegg ist sehr weit verbreitet uind stellt Frequenzumrichter, sowie Aufzugsmotoren und Ventilatoren her. Also generell Antriebstechnik. Die Umrichter von ZA werden von sehr vielen Firmen verbaut, so auch bei den Anlagen bei dir im Haus.
@@TheLiftDragon vielen Dank. wusste ich nicht!
Not sure why this was in my recommended, and I’m even more puzzled as to why I watched it to the end…
The TH-cam algorithm has recommended my newer videos to more people lately. Well it seems you found it at least somehow interesting when you watched it all the way through xD