Indeed, this is a true marvel of engineering and I too love watching the old machinery work. Here especially there's so much extra details you wouldn't find anymore on a lift even 10 years newer than this one.
my goodness that motor room, truly epic, the sound the switchgear, so analog. what we do with a few chips these days seems so dead at times yet this some how seems alive
Nowadays, we often us a magnetic tape that is encoded with an absolute position in mm. This is a very powerful solution, but it is so easily done. Of course there also is a lot of engineering going into the development of such a system, but it does not feel as interesting and is nowhere nearly as satisfying to look at compared to a mechanical floor selector.
Wenn ich Platz hätte, würde ich die Gesamte Anlage ( Maschine ,-Steuerung nach der Modernisierung aufheben und mir in den Keller stellen. Wobei ich ja schon ein kleines Schindler Museum habe 🙈
Incredibly huge, I also visited this marvel but only filmed the engine room for a TH-cam short. For a 2000KG freight elevator it is relatively fast because very often they are at 0.6 m/s and in addition the double motor winch and the brakes are really cool to watch it work.
Yes indeed. .The other big freight lifts in this building complex are all 0.63m/s except for one. But I have also seen other lifts, even with 4000kg, that go 1m/s. The motor setup is absolutely epic and watching this move and work is wonderful. I have only seen this very type of setup in lost places till I got the opportunity to document this lift here.
I work in a public building from the 60s in Lisboa where we have lifts like this. Unfortunately the two people elevators have been converted to electronic control. The 8 small cargo elevators are pretty much original tho, I can watch them for days.
Very nice to hear that there are still more such lifts to be found. Portugal is known to have a lot of old Schindler lifts but that was 10-20 years ago. I wonder how many of them are still left.
Exactly the controller at the building I used to work at, except there were only 3 landings, and the low speed motor was integrated into the back of the main motor. No synchronous low speed motor with the brake resistors to limit speed either, just a 4 pole and a 6 pole motor stacked on a single shaft. Interesting use of the retiring cam motor, not used to open the doors, but instead to stop the car at the floor, by probably breaking the safety circuit as the roller leaves the cam, or on the down by touching it.
What you describe seems to be a KDLF + KDH motor set, It is the successor of this setup here. Newer Schindler machines had a 6/4 pole start, that was very common for bigger lifts till the 90s. These lifts also have a centrifugal switch that changes from 6 to 4 pole as soon as a certain speed is reached. The final stop switches operated by the extra motor are usually built into the floor selector. The wiring is identical, it's only 3 wires for the switches. The retiring motor is wired in parallel to the door cam retracting motor, so they always act at the same time.
Thanks for this video really a great machine! Could you please further explain the working logics of the control of the two motors? Is the wound rotor asynchronous motor the starting stopping (low speed) one? Is the brake controlled moved by a third motor or it is a electromagnet ? What is the purpose of the bigger motor above the cabin that retract the roller switch? (Sorry if I used improper technical terms) thanks
You're welcome. The motors are both asynchronous motors. The fast main motor is at the front near the gearbox, the levelling motor is at the back. The levelling motor is a normal asynchronous machine, the main motor is a slip ring-motor. The rotor windings are fed into the large resistors above the gearbox. When the lift starts, the rotor resistance is high in order to achieve a smoother start. Then the rotor windings are subsequently bridged till they're completely shortened like on a normal asynchronous motor. The two brakes are lifted by small 3 phase motors. These small motors are controlled by the 5 contactors at the top of the controller rack. The front brake motor is controlled by the up and down contactors. Depending on whether it turns left or right, it engages the contacts for the main motor in the up or down direction. The second brake motor only has one contact. It turns left or right depending on whether the fast or slow contactor of the controller engage. In fast mode, it engages a contact that shorts beginning and end of the slow motor windings, resulting in only the fast motor working. In slow mode, it dies not engage the switch and both motors run in series, resulting in the slow speed and the very special sound. The motor on the cartop retracts the final limit switches. These switches are normally also placed inside the floor selector but probably because of the large size of this freight lift, it was decided to put them on the car top for extra accuracy. The working is exactly the same as if they were in the floor selector. These switches initiate the final stop from levelling speed. The motor is connected in parallel with the door cam retract motor. It releases at themoment the lift is switched to slow speed.
Il me rappelle le mien un ascenseur privatif Shindler des années 70 avec armoire de commande à relais (à paillettes) 2 niveaux (RdC et 1er étage) il fonctionne toujours par contre il est très difficile de trouver des pièces de rechange pour la maintenance. Mais que c'est beau la mécanique ancienne avec cette musique que font les relais comme dans un vieux central téléphonique (rotary) des années 40 !
Do they use 2 motors for high speed and 1 motor for low speed, or do they use both in parallel, is one motor responsible for high speed and one motor for low speeds? Edit: I see the controller used the brake when the motors were slowing down, was that intentional by the controller? What is the contact thing near the brake assembly? 4:03 and at 4:15, What do they do? Your video shows what Schindler was and still is (I was not paid to write this)! I love to see the motorized brakes and door operator, I bet there was also a motorized phase-shift and reversal detector, if not please correct me here, not to mention the iconic Schindler Wheel beautiful floor selector! Note; I was not paid in any way to write this, I just love how Schindler did all this, to all the Otis and KONE lovers out there, I like those lifts too, I have Otis lifts in my apartment building, they are ReGen’s with 14 floors.
Indeed, this lift is a prime example of Schindler's engineering. I have documented a lot of old Schindlers and they're truly fascinating machines. I wish we still had more of this today as it's just so much more interesting and has much more character than the modern lifts. Other old lifts are also very fascinating though. I have seen 70s DC Otis lifts in person and their mechanics are also absolutely fascinating. Now, regarding your technical questions: - I know the motor for detecting the direction of rotation of the phases, mrmattandmrchay filmed one. This lift does not have one though, there is no detection here. - The slowdown of the lift through the physical brake is intentional and it is necessary as the rear brake motor has to open the brake in the other direction for slow speed (read further below). - 4:56 yes, this is the governor. - 6:08 This is the door cam and the motor that retracts it. You can also see the door roller on the landing door. As for the rest - I have already answered questions about the way of operation of the motors and drive systems in other comments, so here's a copy paste: The motors are both asynchronous motors. The fast main motor is at the front near the gearbox, the levelling motor is at the back. The levelling motor is a normal asynchronous machine, the main motor is a slip ring-motor. The rotor windings are fed into the large resistors above the gearbox (4:03). When the lift starts, the rotor resistance is high in order to achieve a smoother start. Then the rotor windings are subsequently bridged till they're completely shortened like on a normal asynchronous motor. The two brakes are lifted by small 3 phase motors. These small motors are controlled by the 5 contactors at the top of the controller rack. The front brake motor is controlled by the up and down contactors. Depending on whether it turns left or right, it engages the contacts for the main motor in the up or down direction. The second brake motor only has one contact. It turns left or right depending on whether the fast or slow contactor of the controller engage (4:15). In fast mode, it engages a contact that shorts beginning and end of the slow motor windings, resulting in only the fast motor working. In slow mode, it does not engage the switch and both motors run in series, resulting in the slow speed and the very special sound.
Thanks for replying, now I know how the dual motor shindlers work, at least I have an oversight, I do watch the mrmattandmrchay channel, my first interest in elevators came there, I also watch the lift tracker.
Das ist einfach der Sound des langsamen Motors (der hintere auf der Antriebswelle, der weiter weg ist vom Getriebe). Hatte ich zuerst auch nicht erwartet, aber ist ein absolut genialer Sound.
Ich muss hier nochmals einen Nachtrag machen nach weiterem Studium der Schemas: Im Langsamgang sind beide Motoren in Reihe geschaltet. Deshalbauch der aussergewöhnliche Sound. Das kennt man so auch vom Antriebstyp Dynatron 2 (Oder Monotron 3, ist das gleiche). Dort besitzt der Hauptmotor 2 verschiedene Wickungen mit 4 / 6 Polen und nur für die Inspektions- und Rückholfahrt sind diese Wicklungen in Serie geschaltet. Das klingt sehr ähnlich.
@@darksmile4719 Kontäkt ha oder eifach chlei umenand luege. Z Aarau ide Stadt inne hets au no, und Warelift findsch halt wenn dich druf achtisch. Älteri Gebäude, also 70er und vorher, wo gross gnueg sind hend es recht höchs Erfolgspotential. Im Idealfall luegsch nach Bürogebäude wo halt öffentlich zuegänglich si und wos mehreri Firme drinne het. Uf Maps gsehsch es au recht guet was chönnti interessant sii. Vieles isch natürlich au scho umbaut oder ersetzt worde, aber no lang ned alles.
@@theodorranebo2909 I actually don't know why it was done like that, I have only seen this on these very old lifts. As soon as Schindler introduced their KDLF + KDH motors in the early 1960s, the system was changed and it is either fast or slow motor, not both. i do have photos of all the wiring diagrams at home. it shows the 3 phases coming in from the main contactor into the 1st motor. Then from the ends of the motor windings, all 3 phases split, one end goes into a contactor, the other goes to the slow motor. After these two components, the 2 paths are joined together again and all 3 phases are shorted into the star point. So if you close this extra contactor, the slow motor is bridged, resulting in fast speed. If it's open, it results in slow speed as both motors are in series. These main contactors are actually the brake lift motors. You can see that the first motor goes left or right depending on whether the lift should go up or down. the second motor has large contacts only on one side, that is to bridge the slow motor. This goes left or right depending on fast or slow speed.
That is exactly the case. The contactors on the controller drive the brake lift motors. The up and down contactors decide, whether the first brake motor goes to the left or to the right. this influences whether the lift goes up or down. The slow and fast brake contactors activate the second brake motor. This operates only one contact. If the contact is activated, the slow motor is bridged, resulting in fast speed.If the contact is not activated, both motors run in series, resulting in slow speed.
That is correct. Immunity to rope slip though was standard for Schindler and also Schlieren lifts from that time. A floor selector coupled directly to the traction sheave instead of the lift car via a separate rope was an exception.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
Beautiful! The motor room view while the elevator is operating is always fascinating!
Indeed, this is a true marvel of engineering and I too love watching the old machinery work. Here especially there's so much extra details you wouldn't find anymore on a lift even 10 years newer than this one.
my goodness that motor room, truly epic, the sound the switchgear, so analog. what we do with a few chips these days seems so dead at times yet this some how seems alive
I absolutely agree. This old machinery has tons of character while nowadays, things just "work".
Nowadays, we often us a magnetic tape that is encoded with an absolute position in mm. This is a very powerful solution, but it is so easily done. Of course there also is a lot of engineering going into the development of such a system, but it does not feel as interesting and is nowhere nearly as satisfying to look at compared to a mechanical floor selector.
Awesome!!! I'm Brazilian and worked on Schindler until 2006. This type of command was very common, some of then working perfectly!
Indeed, these controllers are very long-lasting and really fascinating pieces of engineering!
Wenn ich Platz hätte, würde ich die Gesamte Anlage ( Maschine ,-Steuerung nach der Modernisierung aufheben und mir in den Keller stellen.
Wobei ich ja schon ein kleines Schindler Museum habe 🙈
Eine richtig schöne alte Maschinerie! Super Aufnahmen!
Dankesehr! Sowas schönes sieht man heute leider selten.
Incredibly huge, I also visited this marvel but only filmed the engine room for a TH-cam short.
For a 2000KG freight elevator it is relatively fast because very often they are at 0.6 m/s and in addition the double motor winch and the brakes are really cool to watch it work.
Yes indeed. .The other big freight lifts in this building complex are all 0.63m/s except for one. But I have also seen other lifts, even with 4000kg, that go 1m/s.
The motor setup is absolutely epic and watching this move and work is wonderful. I have only seen this very type of setup in lost places till I got the opportunity to document this lift here.
I work in a public building from the 60s in Lisboa where we have lifts like this. Unfortunately the two people elevators have been converted to electronic control. The 8 small cargo elevators are pretty much original tho, I can watch them for days.
Very nice to hear that there are still more such lifts to be found. Portugal is known to have a lot of old Schindler lifts but that was 10-20 years ago. I wonder how many of them are still left.
Exactly the controller at the building I used to work at, except there were only 3 landings, and the low speed motor was integrated into the back of the main motor. No synchronous low speed motor with the brake resistors to limit speed either, just a 4 pole and a 6 pole motor stacked on a single shaft. Interesting use of the retiring cam motor, not used to open the doors, but instead to stop the car at the floor, by probably breaking the safety circuit as the roller leaves the cam, or on the down by touching it.
What you describe seems to be a KDLF + KDH motor set, It is the successor of this setup here. Newer Schindler machines had a 6/4 pole start, that was very common for bigger lifts till the 90s. These lifts also have a centrifugal switch that changes from 6 to 4 pole as soon as a certain speed is reached.
The final stop switches operated by the extra motor are usually built into the floor selector. The wiring is identical, it's only 3 wires for the switches. The retiring motor is wired in parallel to the door cam retracting motor, so they always act at the same time.
Thanks for this video really a great machine! Could you please further explain the working logics of the control of the two motors? Is the wound rotor asynchronous motor the starting stopping (low speed) one? Is the brake controlled moved by a third motor or it is a electromagnet ? What is the purpose of the bigger motor above the cabin that retract the roller switch? (Sorry if I used improper technical terms) thanks
You're welcome.
The motors are both asynchronous motors. The fast main motor is at the front near the gearbox, the levelling motor is at the back. The levelling motor is a normal asynchronous machine, the main motor is a slip ring-motor. The rotor windings are fed into the large resistors above the gearbox. When the lift starts, the rotor resistance is high in order to achieve a smoother start. Then the rotor windings are subsequently bridged till they're completely shortened like on a normal asynchronous motor.
The two brakes are lifted by small 3 phase motors. These small motors are controlled by the 5 contactors at the top of the controller rack. The front brake motor is controlled by the up and down contactors. Depending on whether it turns left or right, it engages the contacts for the main motor in the up or down direction. The second brake motor only has one contact. It turns left or right depending on whether the fast or slow contactor of the controller engage. In fast mode, it engages a contact that shorts beginning and end of the slow motor windings, resulting in only the fast motor working. In slow mode, it dies not engage the switch and both motors run in series, resulting in the slow speed and the very special sound.
The motor on the cartop retracts the final limit switches. These switches are normally also placed inside the floor selector but probably because of the large size of this freight lift, it was decided to put them on the car top for extra accuracy. The working is exactly the same as if they were in the floor selector. These switches initiate the final stop from levelling speed. The motor is connected in parallel with the door cam retract motor. It releases at themoment the lift is switched to slow speed.
Il me rappelle le mien un ascenseur privatif Shindler des années 70 avec armoire de commande à relais (à paillettes) 2 niveaux (RdC et 1er étage) il fonctionne toujours par contre il est très difficile de trouver des pièces de rechange pour la maintenance. Mais que c'est beau la mécanique ancienne avec cette musique que font les relais comme dans un vieux central téléphonique (rotary) des années 40 !
👌der Antrieb wunderschön 👍
Absolut! Dankesehr.
beautiful piece of history haha.
It sure is.
Do they use 2 motors for high speed and 1 motor for low speed, or do they use both in parallel, is one motor responsible for high speed and one motor for low speeds? Edit: I see the controller used the brake when the motors were slowing down, was that intentional by the controller? What is the contact thing near the brake assembly? 4:03 and at 4:15, What do they do?
Your video shows what Schindler was and still is (I was not paid to write this)! I love to see the motorized brakes and door operator, I bet there was also a motorized phase-shift and reversal detector, if not please correct me here, not to mention the iconic Schindler Wheel beautiful floor selector!
Note; I was not paid in any way to write this, I just love how Schindler did all this, to all the Otis and KONE lovers out there, I like those lifts too, I have Otis lifts in my apartment building, they are ReGen’s with 14 floors.
4:56 Is that the safety governed?
Epic sounding motors!
6:08 what is that? Sorry for adding so many replies by myself, but as I rewatch this more and more things catch my mind 😅!
Indeed, this lift is a prime example of Schindler's engineering. I have documented a lot of old Schindlers and they're truly fascinating machines. I wish we still had more of this today as it's just so much more interesting and has much more character than the modern lifts. Other old lifts are also very fascinating though. I have seen 70s DC Otis lifts in person and their mechanics are also absolutely fascinating.
Now, regarding your technical questions:
- I know the motor for detecting the direction of rotation of the phases, mrmattandmrchay filmed one. This lift does not have one though, there is no detection here.
- The slowdown of the lift through the physical brake is intentional and it is necessary as the rear brake motor has to open the brake in the other direction for slow speed (read further below).
- 4:56 yes, this is the governor.
- 6:08 This is the door cam and the motor that retracts it. You can also see the door roller on the landing door.
As for the rest - I have already answered questions about the way of operation of the motors and drive systems in other comments, so here's a copy paste:
The motors are both asynchronous motors. The fast main motor is at the front near the gearbox, the levelling motor is at the back. The levelling motor is a normal asynchronous machine, the main motor is a slip ring-motor. The rotor windings are fed into the large resistors above the gearbox (4:03). When the lift starts, the rotor resistance is high in order to achieve a smoother start. Then the rotor windings are subsequently bridged till they're completely shortened like on a normal asynchronous motor.
The two brakes are lifted by small 3 phase motors. These small motors are controlled by the 5 contactors at the top of the controller rack. The front brake motor is controlled by the up and down contactors. Depending on whether it turns left or right, it engages the contacts for the main motor in the up or down direction. The second brake motor only has one contact. It turns left or right depending on whether the fast or slow contactor of the controller engage (4:15). In fast mode, it engages a contact that shorts beginning and end of the slow motor windings, resulting in only the fast motor working. In slow mode, it does not engage the switch and both motors run in series, resulting in the slow speed and the very special sound.
Thanks for replying, now I know how the dual motor shindlers work, at least I have an oversight, I do watch the mrmattandmrchay channel, my first interest in elevators came there, I also watch the lift tracker.
Was ist das Geräusch, wenn er langsam fährt? 1950er "Elektronik" fasziniert mich immer!
Das ist einfach der Sound des langsamen Motors (der hintere auf der Antriebswelle, der weiter weg ist vom Getriebe). Hatte ich zuerst auch nicht erwartet, aber ist ein absolut genialer Sound.
Ich muss hier nochmals einen Nachtrag machen nach weiterem Studium der Schemas: Im Langsamgang sind beide Motoren in Reihe geschaltet. Deshalbauch der aussergewöhnliche Sound. Das kennt man so auch vom Antriebstyp Dynatron 2 (Oder Monotron 3, ist das gleiche). Dort besitzt der Hauptmotor 2 verschiedene Wickungen mit 4 / 6 Polen und nur für die Inspektions- und Rückholfahrt sind diese Wicklungen in Serie geschaltet. Das klingt sehr ähnlich.
4:56 is that safety governor does it trip in both directions? I have never seen a safety governer using chains
It is using chains because it also drives the floor selector, which is not allowed to slip. These old Schindler governors are unidirectional only.
Thanks!
Can you reply to my other comment? I have questions about the motor room.
Dude i live here and not even i knew of this😮
Es git no einigi so alti Alage im Aargau, die da isch sogar imne öffentliche Gebäude. Isch aber chlei versteckt.
@@TheLiftDragon wie fendet mer so alage normalerwis?
@@darksmile4719 Kontäkt ha oder eifach chlei umenand luege. Z Aarau ide Stadt inne hets au no, und Warelift findsch halt wenn dich druf achtisch. Älteri Gebäude, also 70er und vorher, wo gross gnueg sind hend es recht höchs Erfolgspotential. Im Idealfall luegsch nach Bürogebäude wo halt öffentlich zuegänglich si und wos mehreri Firme drinne het. Uf Maps gsehsch es au recht guet was chönnti interessant sii. Vieles isch natürlich au scho umbaut oder ersetzt worde, aber no lang ned alles.
Why is it 2 motors? Is one motor for high speed and one motor for low speed?
Yes, onw motor is fast, one is slow. Although on slow speed, both morors aee switched in series, hence the special sound.
@@TheLiftDragon Why are the 2 motors running at the same time in slow speed? It should be nice to see a wiring diagram to know how they are connected
Does is have something to do with the number of poles? Do the poles of the 2 motors add up when you connect them in series?
@@theodorranebo2909 I actually don't know why it was done like that, I have only seen this on these very old lifts. As soon as Schindler introduced their KDLF + KDH motors in the early 1960s, the system was changed and it is either fast or slow motor, not both.
i do have photos of all the wiring diagrams at home. it shows the 3 phases coming in from the main contactor into the 1st motor. Then from the ends of the motor windings, all 3 phases split, one end goes into a contactor, the other goes to the slow motor. After these two components, the 2 paths are joined together again and all 3 phases are shorted into the star point. So if you close this extra contactor, the slow motor is bridged, resulting in fast speed. If it's open, it results in slow speed as both motors are in series. These main contactors are actually the brake lift motors. You can see that the first motor goes left or right depending on whether the lift should go up or down. the second motor has large contacts only on one side, that is to bridge the slow motor. This goes left or right depending on fast or slow speed.
Hundreds of times the trolleys there have hit those car walls and the doors......
Indeed, the almost 70 years of daily use have left some marks.
tough unit.
Indeed.
que maquinas
It looks as though the contacts for the motors are motor-driven.
That is exactly the case. The contactors on the controller drive the brake lift motors. The up and down contactors decide, whether the first brake motor goes to the left or to the right. this influences whether the lift goes up or down. The slow and fast brake contactors activate the second brake motor. This operates only one contact. If the contact is activated, the slow motor is bridged, resulting in fast speed.If the contact is not activated, both motors run in series, resulting in slow speed.
@@TheLiftDragon Are you saying that the little motors operate both the brakes and the contactors for the main motors?
@@b43xoit Ye. you can see the large open contacts opening and closing in the video.
According to timestampseries 6:35 to 7:22, when levelling the positioning of the car is immune to ropeslip.
For that time very clever.
That is correct. Immunity to rope slip though was standard for Schindler and also Schlieren lifts from that time. A floor selector coupled directly to the traction sheave instead of the lift car via a separate rope was an exception.