I said Syracuse because they're pretty much just a copy of Athens. As a result, they are quite tactically inflexible in multiplayer. When I say 'worst faction', I'm focusing on how they perform in multiplayer. Some of the weaker factions in multiplayer are fun in the campaign.
From a technical standpoint, worst probably 1.Steppe factions 2.Ardiaei 3.Colchis 4. Pergamon 5. Iceni(?) Don't take my word tho. Personally i like all of the ones i mentioned(Pergamon and Ardiaei having a big diference) except Colchis. In my view its super boring, so i would nearly never play it. Same goes for Rome but Rome is defnitely a powerfaction so it doesn't matter how much i dislike it.
Pergamon is the worst faction in multiplayer because they have no answer to mid-tier swords and their unique units are very overpriced. Colchis is a good faction but does lack variety, but they have a good midtier axe, a good sub-elite hoplite, melee cav, meatshield, and ok horse and foot skirmishers.
Looking at it now and basically Athens has Rodian slingers, Cretan Archers and Syracuse only has Balearic slingers. Syracuse has Saminite warriors, Etruscan hoplites; Mercenary Italian and Companion cav. Athens has Mercenary Thracian peltasts and Warriors. Other then that the roster is the same.
I think you raise an interesting point by bringing the campaign into the conversation. A lot of terrible multiplayer factions absolutely slap in campaign, e.g., the Successor Kingdoms. For me, in both multiplayer and campaign, it comes down to versatility and uniqueness. Colchis and Pergamon get passes because they have unique buildings in campaign lol
Pergamon has such a good campaign trait though. That -25% building cost doesn't sound that exciting but it means you can always be building where other factions have to wait a turn sometimes.
l don't think that the Successor kingdoms are terrible on multiplayer l mean these are the best hellenic factions ( selucids , Ptolemaic Egypt, backtria )
@@Montechristoss yeah they are actually very good and versatile i often use them in MP battles egypt has a good cheap option for your general (axemen) and you can use that left over money to bring chariots or elephants or galic royal guard . seles , egypt and bactria are better than athens or syracuse , they are somewhere in the middle when it comes to overall power scaling for MP and when it comes to SP you can steamroll the entire map with pretty much any faction so it doesn´t even matter , you can also pick up mercenaries along the way .
camp. cav was OP broken in the early days of ROME II but then it got nerfed and is not cost effective for the price anymore in MP of course if you are a good player and you use them well they can pay for themselves still , but same can be said about almost any unit in a hands of a skilled player but for an average joe they are very hard to use and get their moneys worth .
Hello everyone. In the days of patch 19 ( When spaghetti lines were still a thing ) that 30 weapon dmg was super deadly when paired with other armor penetration units. Per example, Athen could combine thorax spears and Thracian falxs for an AMAZING output of instant DMG. But now without the paper-thin lines, the charge results of those units just don't make the cut. In patch 20 players rely heavily on cav to start engagement, much more so than in patch 19 ( because pairing infantry units just isn't the meta anymore) and therefore Greek factions that don't have the cheap shock cav ( Thessalian) don't make the cut because they either rely on Shitizen cav or Hippeus. The Hippeus is too pricey and soft to perform cost-effectively against archers, slingers, and of course precursors (I've seen amazing Hippeus players but they pair them with AP dmg units). This is of course my humble opinion and the realizations I've made according to my game style.
Even though I love this faction it has to be Cimmeria lol. All of the factions mentioned have some way of dealing damage or winning even though it may be more difficult while Cimmeria has bad infantry and their ranged are too difficult to use with such subpar infantry and cav. Another faction that comes to mind however is Sparta since their midtier hoplites lose to almost anything and are not cost-effective, their high-tier loses to all high-tier swords, terrible cav, and they have no good cheap infantry.
cimmeria is not that bad , you can treat them almost like a steppe HA faction with decent infantry . yes they are in the bottom 5 for sure in power scaling and are difficult to use in MP battles , inexperienced and casual players will not win a battle playing for them for sure . but their elite hoplites are very good , they also have very cheap and expendable shock cav and very decent mid tier HA unit for 580 .
Its nice hearing throwbacks to maximus in your recent vids. He was a really cool chill guy and a beast at eviscerating the game's mechanics. you know if hes doing alright ? he just disappeared from the internet, although i imagine having a kid will do that to you. cheers heir
I feel Syracuse is bad as they tend to be highly spear dependent, with a few slingers. It's super predictable and easily played against as their play has little variety at all.
Can use a base sword army too with cavalry and skirmishers with few to little spears. Have seen it hapening on replays on success. Tho true they are mainly spear focused.
Obviously this video was multiplayer focussed, but in Campaign, Pergamon was my favourite faction; and I loved trying to get Client State Colchis, supporting them until you can levy their top tier hoplites. Decent challenging start too.
Good stuff Heir. I love those videos! In my opinion, with the following rules. Rule set = 14 infantry. 8 melee. 5 max of the same. 4 Ha max. 8 cav max. ( Nomads get 8 HA max and no cap on cav) Top worst: Top best: 1- Cimmeria 1-Massagetea 2- Sparta 2- Numidia 3- Athen/Syra 3-Suebi 4- Egypt 4- Boii
What happened to the Boii being the best faction? Is Barbarian rush no longer the meta? Are Levy Freemen no longer the most cost effective unit with their javies?
@@jakeatohio Hey Jake. I think the argument that Boii is the best faction could still stand. Every since the spaghetti lines have been removed I feel like levy freeman isn't that effective anymore. Of course, you still get the precursors but they cover less ground and therefore lost their screening capabilities to some extent.
@@jakeatohio boii and tylis are still very strong but they can be easily countered . also newer factions like kush , saba and masaesyli are among the strongest for MP battles today.
I am so glad we agree that Syracuse isn't the worst faction. Macedon was mentioned? That was defnitely unexpected. It has a bit of everything with some solid picks. Macedon is defnitely an A- or B+ in a tier list in my eyes.
I'd say all three steppe factions hands down, for the sole reason that they all lack any non-mounted units. Like say what you want about Ardieii, Pergamon, or Kolchis, but at least they can field infantry.
@@thewetblueberry7233 I'll agree with that for the most part, but they can definitely be countered by an experienced player who's ready for them on land. part of the problem is that anybody who recognizes the faction icon basically already knows what to expect, so they can build accordingly. they can be extra nasty on land as part of a team as well cause teammates can build to compliment the steppe factions and deal with problematic units, definitely understand where you're coming from!
@@thewetblueberry7233 yeah, gotta get at the corners and pick it apart, a lot of it definitely comes down to how well they can micro and patiently finding weak spots, using Theuros Spears to cover the corners would make that tougher though. Definitely get where you're coming from, I've seen a few matches go that way for sure, they're no joke on the field in capable hands
I like playing the Ardiaei. It's not easy to play them but you can field a whole 20 unit army and upgrade them more. Lot's of cheap axe units combined with (very) heave infantry and javelins. Those axes in the back of a unit is deadly. Same for Pergamon. It's all about javelins. Fielding thureos spears and agema spear + peltasts. Tie down the enemy and fire in their flanks + some strong cav on the flanks as support to intercept flanking enemy cav. Colchis is indeed a bad faction bc the infantry can't win the battles for you and the cav is expensive so you can's field enough to win you the battle
Agreed. Really find fun Pergamon and Ardiaei, but i understand why people can them bad, and i can agree with them, cause they can be predictable. But are in top 10 favorite for sure.
The Greek states lack of artillery and armour hurt them in the later stages facing Roman organization and leadership scales. The traditional non Roman abilities to field larger armies and the system of maintaining a professional army is handicap in the models of CA.. Huge peasant levies or irregular barbarians were still a Field armies problem off an open battlefield past Roams in the German forest to .General Edward Braddock in the French Indian Wars.
Ardiaei Is a very good faction. Marines, nobles and raiders are very good. On multiplayer are mid tier fac all facs are good actually you just need proper skills. Colchis is an excellent faction thought very good for mp.
I hope CA would make a modular unit customization sometime in the future. I know it wouldn't be necessarily historical and some people wouldn't like it for this, but I feel at least this kind of problems with lacking army roster would be solved. Maybe even if virtually every faction would have some kind of every weapon or armor, they could still lean on some kind of historical accuracy by making some excel on some aspects compared to others, but still giving the player more strategic freedom and a more personal kind of gameplay. And by making those modifications blocked by research on the campaign would maybe make the research tree a bit more meaningful, in addition to allow some awesome unit models.
Yo Heir. off topic here but i was wondering what you thought about a battle option where you could spare and capture a general if his unit is engaged. If you did so, it could have diplomatic bonuses and increased ransom. Idk how it could be implemented real time though or if it would even work. Awesome vid as usual
I see Syracuse's main issue being they are just a worst Athens. Both factions already have a severe lack of killing power and are difficult to make cost-effective. They have a bunch of units that can hold for a while. I do think Hippeus Lancers are decent and Thureos Spears are always a good choice though. Athens is probably better just because of Mercenary Thracian Warriors, Samnites are good and not to be underestimated, but they are a defensive unit. Syracuse already has a cheap and slightly worst unit in Thorax Swords that also comes with access to shield wall. I don't know if Syracuse is the worst faction but, Sol and others are definitely on to something calling them bad in multiplayer. No matter the match up they pretty much are always going to rely on Thureos Spears, Hippeus Lancers and either a horde of skirmishers or 3 Balearic Slingers. Despite the bigger roster, they really have nothing else.
I rate factions by their versatility. The more options they have the better. I feel like the Ardiei are the most one dimensional faction in the game. Pergamon has shock cavalry and pikes, Colchis has horse archers and shock cavalry. Syracuse has thorax swords. Ardiei can be good in the right hands, but it's harder than others to play I think.
@The treatment Yes the Steppe factions are one dimensional, but are way more mobile. Hit and run, kiting and good micro can make them way more dangerous than the Ardiei. That said the Ardiei do have a better navy, so that's good in campaign.
I remember Syracuse as a better version of Athens. Campanian and Samnite units are very good. Idk about the midtier Italian cav, though. It depends on which patch you are thinking of, but in current state (for the last several years) the hoplite units have been quite good. Just have to have the right supporting elementa to do damage. Ardiaei are worst for me. 4 cool spear units and everything else blows. No variety, just hoplite + thureos spam. A lot of the dlc factions are pretty barebones though. Factions like Odrysian Kingdom are very strong in many senses but have such little variety, especially in campaign (since mercenaries are expensive). Cimmeria is another one that feels like it needs a couple melee inf and cav added. Most factions should have had low, mid, high, and elite tier for MOST categories. They basically made factions unique in this game by taking AWAY units and leaving holes.
I have to agree with Heir on the Ardiaei. It's simply because of 1 thing. Naval warfare was never properly updated and actually achieved what it set out to do which is why CA have never gone back to naval warfare. Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2 and Rome 2 are great games (for the most part) but the naval aspect has been a weaker element. Ardiaei is probably a great representation of everything CA got wrong. The Rome faction represents all of CA getting things right. I think it's also why Carthage suffered too, CA struggle with getting the navy portion right. If the navy stuff really got a proper overhaul in terms of actually showing how much money was made via seapower and the actual options open for the navy such as blockades done right it would make factions like Ardiaei and Carthage a really game changer. Total War is too focused on land and armies. Shutting down things like sea lanes is not possible in Rome 2. Via sea if Rome in GC make a trade route with Numidia what can Carthage actually do other than raid? not much and even then raiding hurts Carthage more since the seas are divvied up into provinces. I really hope CA one day get some people who understand naval aspects of commerce and warfare and developers who are able to actually implement these into the game. Even today being a major power requires sea-power. Look at the Punic wars even Rome had to build a fleet and learn the seas. Egypt had an impressive navy at the time so too did Massalia and Illyria had the naval ability to disrupt the seas. Even historically British Empire (massive trading empire like Carthage), USA (the super-carriers) the Imperial Japanese navy of WW2. German U-boats. Naval power is the pinnacle of world power and being a major world power.
besides the nomad factions which are their own kettle of fish (and are actually sometimes good against some factions) sparta is by far the worst faction. If there's two types of units you want in this game it's melee infantry and good cav, and sparta has neither of them. They have decent missile units but they can't actually protect them. Their spears are like good for spears but don't have javelins and are hoplites so they lose to any sort of decent melee infantry. even against the other greek factions, even ones that only have thorax swords (which are worse than spartans 1 for 1) you just lose because you don't have cavalry that can do anything and your lack of javelins makes you incapable of dealing with cavalry.
If my opinion's worth anything the worst factions have got to be the Ardeai or Colchis. What put me off competitive Rome 2 play was that it was spaghetti lines (pastati) and camera mods, so meh. Maybe Syracuse are that bad but I don't see it
I would say ardiaei because they lack "killing power". Greek factions still have units like skirmishers and cavalry which can be used to kill any infantry or cavalry unit. Ardiaei has shit skirmishers and cavalry and their infantry is also terrible. Yeah they can be dangerous to cav but they are let down by their lack of good skirmishers vs nomad factions.
With very good micro against some factions especially heavily armoured they are great try using tracian peltasts very good ranged dmg and effective in melee after running out of javelins (for a missle unit).
Colchis and Syracus are far farrrrr from being the worst faction tho, they are definitely uninspiring and boring. It's the steppe factions are the worst, very predictable and get hard countered every single time.
Cappadocia has the worst roster in total war series. Even in GC their garrison is non existent. You cant recruit +1 unit like all factions. Only good thing with them is that they start with iron and have decent relations with armenia and selucid and most important they can have SATRAPY. On legendary i never think too much as i was calculating every move for cappadocia campaign. Only 1 small mistake and you are done. While they have decent skirmishers they lack in holding enemy so you can shoot them in peace. Morale is biggest problem, you can fight battles in begining and use some good tactics with some mercenaries but if you come a cross with general that have -30 morale penalty to enemy you cant even fight. You start war with pontus and gallati is hating you. Anatolia is your fighting zone but after that you can breath and then it is easy coz autoresolve is broken. It was not the hardest campaing but it can be, depends on situation. If you try total war style with cappadocia that would be the fight of total war series.
Definitely Sparta .Extremely overrated and doesn't have melee units all focused around the useless hoplites. Hoplites are 100% useless in this game No reason to use them AT ALL They suck miserably at everything they can't attack nor defend nor kill anything and no they aren't good for " holding " either as many like to say They get melted by any above average melee unit without killing anything. I would rather have a unit hillmen instead of 1 unit of heroes of Sparta atleast the can throw javelins!
if you use them badly then yes ... swords , elephants ,shock infantry and shock cav is also useless in a hands of a bad player any unit is useless if you make bad decisions and use it poorly . some hoplite units are actually great , i get 100+ kills with almost each thorax hoplite unit in MP games , heck most of the time i get 100 kills with thureos spears ... you just have to disrupt the enemy charge and do some hitpoint damage with your missiles and then your hoplites will kill mid tier melee and shock units or grind it out in a long run ... you just need to know which hoplites are good for the price and which are trash . thorax hoplites is the best mid tier spear unit in the game , also veteran hoplites are great .
Although I understand wanting to see Warhammer replays from your preferred content creator, there are plenty of options out there for it. Virtually no one is covering Rome 2 right now, so it's cool to see some replays from it.
Rome, i'd say. Barbarian swords are always better for the price. Legionaries are getting crapped all over by similarly priced barbarians. For a faction whose entire roster is dependant on sword units, they are very pathetic. It's very hardly worth to play them. Which is a shame, considering the game's name..
The factions just lack balance. BAD Athens are boring as hell and don't really get any unique units. Least favourite faction. Much worse than the Ardieai. Syracuse are literally the same as Athens but marginally more 'flavour' in multiplayer with Italian units. Pergamon lack good sword infantry and unique units BELOW AVERAGE Massilia have access to axes but their best sword unit is a Thorax Swordsmen rather than a barbarian sword unit. Ardieai are actually really fun to play with due to the Marines, Raiders and Noble Hoplites but lack variety, especially swords and cavalry - not historically accurate Ordrysian Kingdom have a similar problem to Ardieai but with much better units. Instead they get really shitty spears and a very small roster OTHER Cimmeria would be among my favourites if they got Steppe Armoured Lancers Celtic factions can be way too similar as well.
Who is your pick for worst faction in Rome 2 and why?
I said Syracuse because they're pretty much just a copy of Athens. As a result, they are quite tactically inflexible in multiplayer. When I say 'worst faction', I'm focusing on how they perform in multiplayer. Some of the weaker factions in multiplayer are fun in the campaign.
From a technical standpoint, worst probably
1.Steppe factions
2.Ardiaei
3.Colchis
4. Pergamon
5. Iceni(?)
Don't take my word tho. Personally i like all of the ones i mentioned(Pergamon and Ardiaei having a big diference) except Colchis. In my view its super boring, so i would nearly never play it. Same goes for Rome but Rome is defnitely a powerfaction so it doesn't matter how much i dislike it.
Pergamon is the worst faction in multiplayer because they have no answer to mid-tier swords and their unique units are very overpriced. Colchis is a good faction but does lack variety, but they have a good midtier axe, a good sub-elite hoplite, melee cav, meatshield, and ok horse and foot skirmishers.
12 6 4 Cup of nations ruleset
1.Sparta
2.Cimmeria
3. Athens
4.Egypt
TWL unrestricted ruleset
1.Sparta
2. Athens
3. Odrysian Kingdom
4. Egypt
@@rinzler8487you absolute Chad!
The worst faction is whatever faction I happen to be playing at that moment
Mood 😂😂😂
Real
Syracuse is the laziest faction...mainly because it is Athens. They actually have the same roster you are basically picking between shades of blue.
I think Athens at least has access to picked or mercenary vet hoplites. I think Syracuse has the most vanilla roster.
@@edwardfontaine7108 syracuse does have picked hoplites
But syracuse has samnite warriors do they not?
Looking at it now and basically Athens has Rodian slingers, Cretan Archers and Syracuse only has Balearic slingers. Syracuse has Saminite warriors, Etruscan hoplites; Mercenary Italian and Companion cav. Athens has Mercenary Thracian peltasts and Warriors. Other then that the roster is the same.
I guess Athens might have the edge because they have access to quite powerful slingers and archers?
I think you raise an interesting point by bringing the campaign into the conversation. A lot of terrible multiplayer factions absolutely slap in campaign, e.g., the Successor Kingdoms. For me, in both multiplayer and campaign, it comes down to versatility and uniqueness. Colchis and Pergamon get passes because they have unique buildings in campaign lol
Pergamon has such a good campaign trait though. That -25% building cost doesn't sound that exciting but it means you can always be building where other factions have to wait a turn sometimes.
Successor factions are unbeatable because they have ROYAL PELTASTS!
l don't think that the Successor kingdoms are terrible on multiplayer l mean these are the best hellenic factions ( selucids , Ptolemaic Egypt, backtria )
@@Montechristoss yeah they are actually very good and versatile i often use them in MP battles
egypt has a good cheap option for your general (axemen) and you can use that left over money to bring chariots or elephants or galic royal guard .
seles , egypt and bactria are better than athens or syracuse , they are somewhere in the middle when it comes to overall power scaling for MP
and when it comes to SP you can steamroll the entire map with pretty much any faction so it doesn´t even matter , you can also pick up mercenaries along the way .
I used to love playing syracuse in MP. Nobody ever expected the campanian cav to do so well in melee combat.
camp. cav was OP broken in the early days of ROME II but then it got nerfed and is not cost effective for the price anymore in MP
of course if you are a good player and you use them well they can pay for themselves still , but same can be said about almost any unit in a hands of a skilled player
but for an average joe they are very hard to use and get their moneys worth .
Hello everyone.
In the days of patch 19 ( When spaghetti lines were still a thing ) that 30 weapon dmg was super deadly when paired with other armor penetration units. Per example, Athen could combine thorax spears and Thracian falxs for an AMAZING output of instant DMG. But now without the paper-thin lines, the charge results of those units just don't make the cut. In patch 20 players rely heavily on cav to start engagement, much more so than in patch 19 ( because pairing infantry units just isn't the meta anymore) and therefore Greek factions that don't have the cheap shock cav ( Thessalian) don't make the cut because they either rely on Shitizen cav or Hippeus. The Hippeus is too pricey and soft to perform cost-effectively against archers, slingers, and of course precursors (I've seen amazing Hippeus players but they pair them with AP dmg units). This is of course my humble opinion and the realizations I've made according to my game style.
And of course that is not to say blunting with cavalry on the initial engagement wasn’t a thing back in patch 19
The best part about the colchian hoplites has to be those wings on their helmets
Even though I love this faction it has to be Cimmeria lol. All of the factions mentioned have some way of dealing damage or winning even though it may be more difficult while Cimmeria has bad infantry and their ranged are too difficult to use with such subpar infantry and cav. Another faction that comes to mind however is Sparta since their midtier hoplites lose to almost anything and are not cost-effective, their high-tier loses to all high-tier swords, terrible cav, and they have no good cheap infantry.
cimmeria is not that bad , you can treat them almost like a steppe HA faction with decent infantry .
yes they are in the bottom 5 for sure in power scaling and are difficult to use in MP battles , inexperienced and casual players will not win a battle playing for them for sure .
but their elite hoplites are very good , they also have very cheap and expendable shock cav and very decent mid tier HA unit for 580 .
Its nice hearing throwbacks to maximus in your recent vids. He was a really cool chill guy and a beast at eviscerating the game's mechanics.
you know if hes doing alright ? he just disappeared from the internet, although i imagine having a kid will do that to you.
cheers heir
I feel Syracuse is bad as they tend to be highly spear dependent, with a few slingers. It's super predictable and easily played against as their play has little variety at all.
Can use a base sword army too with cavalry and skirmishers with few to little spears. Have seen it hapening on replays on success. Tho true they are mainly spear focused.
Thorax Swords and Samnites: "We don't exist"
I mean if Syracuse is bad then what's Sparta lmao
@@alberto6169 😬
@@alberto6169 yeah syracuse and athens are way more versatile compared to sparta ...
Obviously this video was multiplayer focussed, but in Campaign, Pergamon was my favourite faction; and I loved trying to get Client State Colchis, supporting them until you can levy their top tier hoplites. Decent challenging start too.
Good stuff Heir. I love those videos!
In my opinion, with the following rules.
Rule set = 14 infantry. 8 melee. 5 max of the same. 4 Ha max. 8 cav max. ( Nomads get 8 HA max and no cap on cav)
Top worst: Top best:
1- Cimmeria 1-Massagetea
2- Sparta 2- Numidia
3- Athen/Syra 3-Suebi
4- Egypt 4- Boii
What happened to the Boii being the best faction? Is Barbarian rush no longer the meta? Are Levy Freemen no longer the most cost effective unit with their javies?
@@jakeatohio Hey Jake. I think the argument that Boii is the best faction could still stand. Every since the spaghetti lines have been removed I feel like levy freeman isn't that effective anymore. Of course, you still get the precursors but they cover less ground and therefore lost their screening capabilities to some extent.
@@jakeatohio boii and tylis are still very strong but they can be easily countered .
also newer factions like kush , saba and masaesyli are among the strongest for MP battles today.
Strangely it's hard for me to get into this game again. I've played the hell out of it. This is the 10 yr anniversary!
I am so glad we agree that Syracuse isn't the worst faction. Macedon was mentioned? That was defnitely unexpected. It has a bit of everything with some solid picks. Macedon is defnitely an A- or B+ in a tier list in my eyes.
I don't play multiplayer, but the Greek and Phoenician factions are my favourite campaigns to play. I really like hoplites and pikes
I'd say all three steppe factions hands down, for the sole reason that they all lack any non-mounted units. Like say what you want about Ardieii, Pergamon, or Kolchis, but at least they can field infantry.
They are the worst for sieges but on land battles, they clap cheeks.
@@thewetblueberry7233 I'll agree with that for the most part, but they can definitely be countered by an experienced player who's ready for them on land. part of the problem is that anybody who recognizes the faction icon basically already knows what to expect, so they can build accordingly.
they can be extra nasty on land as part of a team as well cause teammates can build to compliment the steppe factions and deal with problematic units, definitely understand where you're coming from!
@@TheErickDH even against pike box they can be quite powerful, just takes a bit of finesse
@@thewetblueberry7233 yeah, gotta get at the corners and pick it apart, a lot of it definitely comes down to how well they can micro and patiently finding weak spots, using Theuros Spears to cover the corners would make that tougher though.
Definitely get where you're coming from, I've seen a few matches go that way for sure, they're no joke on the field in capable hands
I like playing the Ardiaei. It's not easy to play them but you can field a whole 20 unit army and upgrade them more. Lot's of cheap axe units combined with (very) heave infantry and javelins. Those axes in the back of a unit is deadly. Same for Pergamon. It's all about javelins. Fielding thureos spears and agema spear + peltasts. Tie down the enemy and fire in their flanks + some strong cav on the flanks as support to intercept flanking enemy cav. Colchis is indeed a bad faction bc the infantry can't win the battles for you and the cav is expensive so you can's field enough to win you the battle
Agreed. Really find fun Pergamon and Ardiaei, but i understand why people can them bad, and i can agree with them, cause they can be predictable. But are in top 10 favorite for sure.
The Greek states lack of artillery and armour hurt them in the later stages facing Roman organization and leadership scales. The traditional non Roman abilities to field larger armies and the system of maintaining a professional army is handicap in the models of CA.. Huge peasant levies or irregular barbarians were still a Field armies problem off an open battlefield past Roams in the German forest to .General Edward Braddock in the French Indian Wars.
Tbh I’m supervised there wasn’t more for factions like Getae, outside of their heavy archers they feel so incredibly underwhelming.
Ardiaei Is a very good faction. Marines, nobles and raiders are very good. On multiplayer are mid tier fac all facs are good actually you just need proper skills. Colchis is an excellent faction thought very good for mp.
I hope CA would make a modular unit customization sometime in the future. I know it wouldn't be necessarily historical and some people wouldn't like it for this, but I feel at least this kind of problems with lacking army roster would be solved. Maybe even if virtually every faction would have some kind of every weapon or armor, they could still lean on some kind of historical accuracy by making some excel on some aspects compared to others, but still giving the player more strategic freedom and a more personal kind of gameplay. And by making those modifications blocked by research on the campaign would maybe make the research tree a bit more meaningful, in addition to allow some awesome unit models.
Yo Heir. off topic here but i was wondering what you thought about a battle option where you could spare and capture a general if his unit is engaged. If you did so, it could have diplomatic bonuses and increased ransom. Idk how it could be implemented real time though or if it would even work. Awesome vid as usual
My pick, honest pick, is probably Syracuse, or Pergamon. But honestly that’s mainly for campaign reasons. For multiplayer, not sure I like em all lol.
I see Syracuse's main issue being they are just a worst Athens. Both factions already have a severe lack of killing power and are difficult to make cost-effective. They have a bunch of units that can hold for a while. I do think Hippeus Lancers are decent and Thureos Spears are always a good choice though. Athens is probably better just because of Mercenary Thracian Warriors, Samnites are good and not to be underestimated, but they are a defensive unit. Syracuse already has a cheap and slightly worst unit in Thorax Swords that also comes with access to shield wall. I don't know if Syracuse is the worst faction but, Sol and others are definitely on to something calling them bad in multiplayer. No matter the match up they pretty much are always going to rely on Thureos Spears, Hippeus Lancers and either a horde of skirmishers or 3 Balearic Slingers. Despite the bigger roster, they really have nothing else.
I rate factions by their versatility. The more options they have the better. I feel like the Ardiei are the most one dimensional faction in the game. Pergamon has shock cavalry and pikes, Colchis has horse archers and shock cavalry. Syracuse has thorax swords. Ardiei can be good in the right hands, but it's harder than others to play I think.
I totally agree, i rate the same way, but i put the steppes for this exact reason lower than Ardiaei.
@The treatment Yes the Steppe factions are one dimensional, but are way more mobile. Hit and run, kiting and good micro can make them way more dangerous than the Ardiei. That said the Ardiei do have a better navy, so that's good in campaign.
I remember Syracuse as a better version of Athens. Campanian and Samnite units are very good. Idk about the midtier Italian cav, though. It depends on which patch you are thinking of, but in current state (for the last several years) the hoplite units have been quite good. Just have to have the right supporting elementa to do damage.
Ardiaei are worst for me. 4 cool spear units and everything else blows. No variety, just hoplite + thureos spam.
A lot of the dlc factions are pretty barebones though. Factions like Odrysian Kingdom are very strong in many senses but have such little variety, especially in campaign (since mercenaries are expensive). Cimmeria is another one that feels like it needs a couple melee inf and cav added. Most factions should have had low, mid, high, and elite tier for MOST categories. They basically made factions unique in this game by taking AWAY units and leaving holes.
I have to agree with Heir on the Ardiaei. It's simply because of 1 thing. Naval warfare was never properly updated and actually achieved what it set out to do which is why CA have never gone back to naval warfare. Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2 and Rome 2 are great games (for the most part) but the naval aspect has been a weaker element.
Ardiaei is probably a great representation of everything CA got wrong. The Rome faction represents all of CA getting things right. I think it's also why Carthage suffered too, CA struggle with getting the navy portion right.
If the navy stuff really got a proper overhaul in terms of actually showing how much money was made via seapower and the actual options open for the navy such as blockades done right it would make factions like Ardiaei and Carthage a really game changer. Total War is too focused on land and armies. Shutting down things like sea lanes is not possible in Rome 2. Via sea if Rome in GC make a trade route with Numidia what can Carthage actually do other than raid? not much and even then raiding hurts Carthage more since the seas are divvied up into provinces. I really hope CA one day get some people who understand naval aspects of commerce and warfare and developers who are able to actually implement these into the game. Even today being a major power requires sea-power. Look at the Punic wars even Rome had to build a fleet and learn the seas. Egypt had an impressive navy at the time so too did Massalia and Illyria had the naval ability to disrupt the seas. Even historically British Empire (massive trading empire like Carthage), USA (the super-carriers) the Imperial Japanese navy of WW2. German U-boats. Naval power is the pinnacle of world power and being a major world power.
besides the nomad factions which are their own kettle of fish (and are actually sometimes good against some factions) sparta is by far the worst faction. If there's two types of units you want in this game it's melee infantry and good cav, and sparta has neither of them. They have decent missile units but they can't actually protect them. Their spears are like good for spears but don't have javelins and are hoplites so they lose to any sort of decent melee infantry. even against the other greek factions, even ones that only have thorax swords (which are worse than spartans 1 for 1) you just lose because you don't have cavalry that can do anything and your lack of javelins makes you incapable of dealing with cavalry.
Preach Hami.
Aesthetically though Sparta is S tier because of the Gorgeous slingers.
@@rinzler8487 oh god u must really love the nomads then
Guys, you forgot Odryssian Kingdom
If my opinion's worth anything the worst factions have got to be the Ardeai or Colchis. What put me off competitive Rome 2 play was that it was spaghetti lines (pastati) and camera mods, so meh. Maybe Syracuse are that bad but I don't see it
Horse Lords. All Cav no Inf. I hate the hordes of Horse Archers because theyre so easy to beat in sieges
I would say ardiaei because they lack "killing power". Greek factions still have units like skirmishers and cavalry which can be used to kill any infantry or cavalry unit. Ardiaei has shit skirmishers and cavalry and their infantry is also terrible. Yeah they can be dangerous to cav but they are let down by their lack of good skirmishers vs nomad factions.
What happened to the Rome Campaign?
Ch hard k sound man. How long have you been playing this game? Time to learn names.
If I recall correctly, Syracuse is even better than Athens imo, because it has a better frontline with Thorax Hoplites, which Athens doesn't has.
athens have thorax hoplites on top of that they also have thracian mercenaries .
Carthage is the worst faction, right?
Can we get some siege battles? It would be fun
athens is the worst faction syracuse is just a better athens with its samnites and campanion cavalry
Nice
what about the odrysian kingdom?
With very good micro against some factions especially heavily armoured they are great try using tracian peltasts very good ranged dmg and effective in melee after running out of javelins (for a missle unit).
Syracusae's roster is just a copy-paste of Athens but with different mercs, no?
Ardei is a power house faction in multi player 😂
Colchis and Syracus are far farrrrr from being the worst faction tho, they are definitely uninspiring and boring. It's the steppe factions are the worst, very predictable and get hard countered every single time.
Your FACE is the worst faction heir 😂😂❤️
Fair point. It has a terrible roster.
its over
Cappadocia has the worst roster in total war series. Even in GC their garrison is non existent. You cant recruit +1 unit like all factions. Only good thing with them is that they start with iron and have decent relations with armenia and selucid and most important they can have SATRAPY. On legendary i never think too much as i was calculating every move for cappadocia campaign. Only 1 small mistake and you are done. While they have decent skirmishers they lack in holding enemy so you can shoot them in peace. Morale is biggest problem, you can fight battles in begining and use some good tactics with some mercenaries but if you come a cross with general that have -30 morale penalty to enemy you cant even fight. You start war with pontus and gallati is hating you. Anatolia is your fighting zone but after that you can breath and then it is easy coz autoresolve is broken.
It was not the hardest campaing but it can be, depends on situation.
If you try total war style with cappadocia that would be the fight of total war series.
I know which faction isn't, it's the one on the cover of the game. :P
I always found cimmeria to be the worst faction ever, I could never pull off a win with them
Ardiai is the best faction in the game. It is not possible to beat them in a land battle.
Guys, I think we can all agree that Rome is the worst faction! 🤡
Sparta is the weakest faction by a wide margin.
Definitely Sparta .Extremely overrated and doesn't have melee units all focused around the useless hoplites.
Hoplites are 100% useless in this game No reason to use them AT ALL
They suck miserably at everything they can't attack nor defend nor kill anything and no they aren't good for " holding " either as many like to say
They get melted by any above average melee unit without killing anything.
I would rather have a unit hillmen instead of 1 unit of heroes of Sparta atleast the can throw javelins!
if you use them badly then yes ... swords , elephants ,shock infantry and shock cav is also useless in a hands of a bad player
any unit is useless if you make bad decisions and use it poorly .
some hoplite units are actually great , i get 100+ kills with almost each thorax hoplite unit in MP games , heck most of the time i get 100 kills with thureos spears ...
you just have to disrupt the enemy charge and do some hitpoint damage with your missiles
and then your hoplites will kill mid tier melee and shock units or grind it out in a long run ...
you just need to know which hoplites are good for the price and which are trash .
thorax hoplites is the best mid tier spear unit in the game , also veteran hoplites are great .
I demand total war Warhammer multiplayer replays as they were reall I got into total war fantasy thing through heir's channel those were just glorious
Although I understand wanting to see Warhammer replays from your preferred content creator, there are plenty of options out there for it. Virtually no one is covering Rome 2 right now, so it's cool to see some replays from it.
He just uploaded some.
Rome, i'd say.
Barbarian swords are always better for the price. Legionaries are getting crapped all over by similarly priced barbarians.
For a faction whose entire roster is dependant on sword units, they are very pathetic. It's very hardly worth to play them.
Which is a shame, considering the game's name..
The factions just lack balance.
BAD
Athens are boring as hell and don't really get any unique units. Least favourite faction. Much worse than the Ardieai.
Syracuse are literally the same as Athens but marginally more 'flavour' in multiplayer with Italian units.
Pergamon lack good sword infantry and unique units
BELOW AVERAGE
Massilia have access to axes but their best sword unit is a Thorax Swordsmen rather than a barbarian sword unit.
Ardieai are actually really fun to play with due to the Marines, Raiders and Noble Hoplites but lack variety, especially swords and cavalry - not historically accurate
Ordrysian Kingdom have a similar problem to Ardieai but with much better units. Instead they get really shitty spears and a very small roster
OTHER
Cimmeria would be among my favourites if they got Steppe Armoured Lancers
Celtic factions can be way too similar as well.