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Making Simple Marking Knives from Old Metal Files
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มี.ค. 2021
- Today in the shop we are following up the complicated process of making the Kukuri in our last video, with the super simple process of making a woodworking Marking knife out of an old metal file.
If you have an old rusty metal file and a grinder you are in business. The great thing about this project is that you do not have to do any heat treating. The files are already heat treated to a high hardness which is great for a marking knife, but tough on your grinding belts. The key is to take your time grinding and be sure not to heat up the blade, to avoid loosing the hardness temper. If your steel turns the color purple or blue, you've lost your hardness and need to grind that out.
I show you how to trim down the file to the size and shape you want, trim and shape the tang to have a spot to drill a lanyard hole, then mark and grind your bevels using my 2x72 grinder with the tilting tool rest and platen. Having the ability to tilt both of these gave me the set up to grind my bevels perfectly while resting the blade flat on the tool rest. After grinding the bevels to 220 on the belts, I began customizing the shape of each knife to fit mine and my brother's preferences. I smoothed all the sharp edges with the scotch bright finishing belt, and then hand sharpened both knives with 500 and 1000 grit sand paper on my 12" square granite tile.
I'm really happy with how these turned out and love both versions. Let us know in the comments which one you prefer. The great thing about these, is that now we have a great tool which will aid us in continuing to get better at, learn more about wood working, and eventually timber framing.
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Love them both. Keeping the original makers stamp adds so much character too.
they became magnetised because of the single direction of grinding, the friction causes electrons in the metal to align magnetically, the magnetic holder would help do that a little too, but that would be more of the case if you remove the holder in a sliding motion multiple times.
Well, the effect of the magnetizing is certainly to align the electrons, but the mechanism operates at a somewhat higher level than that. Within the steel there are micro-crystalline 'domains' in which the atoms are arranged into a regular 3D grid. Each domain is magnetized, because of this regularity, but the domains are randomly aligned, so the different directions of magnetization cancel each other out. When you heat the metal, the domains are more free to vibrate and slide around than at room temperature, and if there's an external magnetic field, they tend to align with it.
When they cool down, the magnitude of their vibrations decreases and they stay in that alignment, although the reduced amount of vibration at room temperature, coupled with the repulsions between adjacent North and adjacent South poles tend to push the domains out of alignment, so the magnetization decreases slowly over time. When you heated the metal by grinding it, the external magnetic field was supplied by your magnetic holder, but the earth's magnetic field has the same effect, albeit a smaller one. When ships were made of rivetted plates, the impact of the riveting hammers during the assembly process jostled the domains in the iron, causing them to align, and magnetizing the ships.
Amazing what you remember, more than half a century after leaving school.
not friction magnatization, they were magnetized by the holding magnet when he was flattening the files on one side.
Those are lovely. I like the one with the finger cut outs best. I really like that you left the old Nicholson maker's stamp on them.
Thanks Ed.
Now I know what to do with all my old files ... your technic is fun and not that hard to learn. I will be using other files to shape the knives ... We The Few appreciate you taking the time to teach us ... OORAH!!
It was a pleasure to watch you work on them.
Art? Without a doubt!
Craftsman? Yes, you are!!
They're Beautiful! Ace!
Thanks Phil
Afternoon, Dustin...
We all admire your work, but I'm also admiring your shop.
No-nonsense, traditional & functional basement workshop.
I've never been so happy and satisfied as when spending time in my shop...
thank you much. looks like a good rainy day destress project :)
Loved that magnet handle, time to shop for a new toy...tool!
couldnt have timed it more perfect, #I found some old rusty files in the ccollection of tools I got from dad. another great video from AOC
Thank you Ali. Send us a pic if you make one.
I have a ton of old files I can make into these. Nice job. The heat and using strong magnets to grind them magnetizes them.
As a typographer, even though it wasn't flashy, I just thoroughly enjoy seeing people write their own title cards. Cheers. The video was super helpful as well 👌
Thanks. I really enjoy making by the intro drawings
I like that small bench drill press. good size.
Thanks. I need to build a stand for it to get it off of my bench, but I do love it.
I really do like them .I've made knifes out of files . I have been making fix blade knifes now for 6 years and love making them . Great job you did on them .
Just did the very same thing only I used a old cheap chisel complete with handle. Great idea using a file.
Don't have a favorite i like them both great job
Thanks! B-rad IS rad.
Man that kukri was sweet! This is a really neat idea for somebody just starting to get into knife-making it doesn't have all the equipment yet! A+
Thanks brother
Agreed. It’s a favourite build of mine on this channel 👍🏻👍🏻😎
See, ...Damn, that's scary . Sorta, just by reading ya comment an Knowing how my pea brain thinks, well, we was thinking nearly the same thing in a sense 👍
That old file was just laughing at that bandsaw. lol
True
I need one of these... past time I made one I guess! Nice build, Dustin!
Heck yeah brother. Do it.😁
original cut before the extra design is perfect. kinda looks like what came outta the Jokers boot when he was fighting Batman.
Very informative!
Hi Dustin, my hero!! Jajaja. Just a new video from the MASTER. Congratulations for this new job! Greetings from Madrid.
Thank you so much Miguel. Next time I’m working on a bow I’ll be thing of you😉. I appreciate the compliments as always.
@@TheArtofCraftsmanship Great Dustin. It is a big detail from you!!
More niceness Dustin. Knice work.
Thank Tim
Love the finger groves.
They did turn out fantastic.
Cool project
Seems like a good way to make throwing knives too!
👍🏼😁
A simple project (after that insane kukri) but producing two beautiful marker knives.
I’ve made a couple of these with small warding files (I don’t have a belt grinder yet).
Love to watch you work whether it’s a simple or hard project.
My preference would be for Devon’s version.
Thanks Earthdog!🙏🙏
You always do really good work. You pay attention to the little details which is often what separates amazing from adequate.
Beautiful mate. Love the finished product. Now for all those old files I have in stock 😂. Thanks for yet another great video. take it easy.
beautiful tools...thanks for sharing!
That's amazing.
Thank you brother.
Great final product. Congratulations.
Thanks Tony. They are fun.
My grandfather worked for Nicholas file.
I grabbed them up any time I come across a u.s. made one.
Maybe he touched it 50 plus years ago
Wow love them both
Thanks Judith. I do too.
Enjoyed the video. Your led light is awesome! Both are good
Thank you
I like both!
Me too. Thanks Nolan.
Love it man! I foresee this video doing very good! Cheers guys! 🙌
Thanks James!!
Where do you guys get those magnets to hold your files while you grind ? Been looking around and can’t seem to locate em.
Cheers guys awesome work 👍🏽
Impressive would be making files from old rusty knives.
Lol
Those turned out fantastic!
Thanks Chris!
At 10:52, I was hoping you'd say "Both of them are done, they are looking really _SHARP_ " 😂
The one with finger grips would be the one I like
I’d does feel great.
I assumed my existing tools (and patience level) would heat files up enough to lose their temper. But now (for lathe tools) I have a slow speed grinder and an Al2O3 wheel that keeps things cooler than high speed Al2O3 wheels (albeit it wears faster, even being slower, guess sit's part of staying cooler). So you just made me realize I'm better off now for playing with file knives. And I'll just be careful like you with the sander.
Merci
I really like those little task lights you have.
Thanks. They are great and super cheap.
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZNR9JCT/ref=psdcmw_1063292_t1_B012C240BS
@@TheArtofCraftsmanship thanks!
The pieces of file not used can be used for flint and steel too. David West TH-cam channel has done a great video on how he did his.
Definitely. I have so many.
Top will copy one. 🍻
🍻🍻🍻
Bad ass blades bro
Thanks Will
No thank you!! I have learned so much from you on your Chanel, great job!!!
Nice bevels on your knives
Thank you. Having the correct grinder set up helps tremendously.
Great video! However, I’m still looking forward to you making sheath for that beautiful kukri from last video. Keep em coming I enjoy watching!
I love the intermingling of classic machine tools & current materials, supplies & techniques. Very nice.
Some files are only surface hardened, but with a relatively softer core. It's a bit of a gamble but as long as you check - older ones can be case hardened just as often as the newer induction hardened ones I have found. Cheers from Oz.
I like the one with side finger grips best.
Very neat, I think I might go ahead and cold blue them black... (?)
Very nice
Amazing work. An adequate alternative is about $18 on amazon. I know there is joy in the making though, so put your own value on that.
An excellent work ⚔️👍
Thanks
Second here. As soon as it came up i got on lol🤣 Maybe you should start a gaming channel like me and gabe. It would be awesome to finally have an adult in the GAO gang ya know wat i mean
its Lindy btw
Nani
Mate great work but please get a face shield, those wirewheels fling off wire at 1000kmh and go right through eyes.
You ain't kidding! That wire completely ruined your eyes dude.... I know you couldn't see it however, he was actually always wearing eye protection whilst using every machine in his shop.
Haha I know what you mean, I learned the hard way getting a peace lodged in my eye just below the pupil. One it hurts like hell and two it not great having a doctor come at you with a scalpel saying “stay right still”
@@LancsManDoes Hope you still got your eye ok mate!
the magnetizing was due to the magnetic holder's field being conducted in the files while also heating the files up then quickly quenching. although it can also be induced simply by the way they're introduced into a magnetic field. you can mess with compass needles the same way with a decent 2"x1"x3/8" ceramic bar magnet, you can strengthen and weaken the needle, flip its field, and if careful, remove it. the trick is approaching and leaving the equator, not the poles.
it's the sanding which magnetises the metal, not the magnetic holder which is negligible, nor the heating.
@@daos3300 you're very right that even sanding itself can magnetize things. a belt sander is essentially a Van De Graff generator. did you know that if you spin a copper bar fast enough it develops its own magnetic field?
but the heat can and does play a part too, though at least with soft iron and some steels this isn't the biggest player, and usually you need to have it in the presence of another magnetic field. and in the case of soft iron you really only require a magnet to induce a field. that's what a compass needle is.
a high carbon piece of steel can be magnetised by working it (essentially striking it), which rearranges it's atoms slightly with each hit. grinding/sanding is essentially a rapid repetition of tiny hits.
Hi Dustin.
My name is Roger. Loved your video. Your shop is almost as cluttered as mine. You are getting product out of the door. That's what is important! Some guys have a shop so clean that a guy could eat off the floor. But are they getting anything done??
Don’t take this the the wrong way my friend , I love your work but I also have a huge man crush on your beard. 😊
Hey just a tip I learned the other day a vinegar bath helps remove rust not sure if its 100% true but worth a try to see if it helps
It’s definitely true. It will also remove any patina that’s on the surface, so if that’s important to you, avoid vinegar.
I really like the one with the finger grooves. Nice simple project, Thanks.
Thanks James
The marking knife has one side completely flat. Its flat side can be attached to the faceplate without any gaps.
They became magnetized because you used a magnet to hold them to flatten one side. The same. Reason screws are magnetized after using a magnetic screw gun bit. Nice work.
This👆
Your totally right. I forgot about the magnet. Also I have found that the static from grinding belt will do the same, but it’s not as powerful. Good call.
Totally true. It’s just never happened to me before. The novelty of it was fun.
It can also happen due to friction - drilling through steel, you'll often see the shavings become magnetized to the drill bit, the piece you're drilling, or other steel objects.
But yeah, magnets will totally do that.
@@jameshaulenbeek5931 Yep and that why most machine shops have a demagnetizer.
Very nice work, but I would grind the bevels LAST... that spear-point would make me a bit nervous whilst doing all that grinding on the "handle"...
If you want to contain the heat in one spot, just clamp it in the vise, it will act as a heat sink
That’s a great tip. Thanks
QUESTION Sir
What is your recommended "new" steel for knife building in a non professional shop and cooking oil for quenching?
I’d go with 1084, and quench in warm Canola oil. It’s a very user friendly and high quality steel.
Philadelphia checking in. I know Buckin wanted some heads forged I was wondering if he ever reached out to you. It was good to see you on his live feed. I think you guys would be great collaborating.
Awesome video Dustin. Thinking Devon and you should switch places for 1 video 😂
See who notices. Lol
They magnetise because the midichlorians within the chemical structure of the electrons rise to the surface and search out for other midichlorians.
That welding magnet you used to hold them is probably why they are magnetic now, along with the heat from friction. You can test this by rubbing a pin or needle with a magnet in the same direction of a bunch of times and it will become magnetic. Then you can float it on a leaf (or bit of orange peel) and it will rotate to point North.
this old tony has bought a small electric demagnetiser, looking forward to that too. i dont quite like the idea of sending my costumers knifes, that collect mettal dust
Yea there are cool easy and cheap ways to DIY demagnetize as well!
@@RaspyOB174 for example letting the knife drop several times ore smash it against an walk 😂
That’s a good point.
Your brother does a great job with the videography. TH-cam videos are almost as much about the video quality as they are about the content. I've seen TH-cam videos with really informative content but the lighting and editing (or lack thereof) make it really hard to watch them.
Do you think this would be possible with just a bench grinder and an angle grinder?
the one with finger holds
Where did you get the red magnetic thing you used as a handle to sand the teeth down with?
Harbor freight. Just a few dollars.
The countersinks you did turned out nice and even. I often get a jagged look to my countersinks when using a countersink like that. Do you run the drill at a really low speed? Or high speed? Light pressure or heavy pressure?
A project anyone can do as you use your $1500+ 2x72 knife grinder. I would be more impressed if you used hand tools the average person has to complete the project.
That’s also a good idea. I’ve got other videos using hand tools also. Thanks for watching.
@@TheArtofCraftsmanship I watch your videos and have been a subscriber for a long time. I will continue to watch your videos because I learn many techniques and get ideas, keep the quality videos coming. 👍
Hi, I have an 8" bench grinder and a 6" polisher. I can't seem to find a wire wheel with the correct arbor anywhere. Can you tell me where you get yours? Thanks.
I bet you could get some kiridashi-esque functionality out of those. Maybe cutting thin leather and such.
I’ll tell you what I use for marking dark steel or heavy rusted steel. Get the metallic silver sharpies. The light silver ink (paint?) shows up much better against dark material than black or blue ink. They are a bit more expensive than a regular sharpie, but not as bad as paint markers or silver pencils. But hey, what am I telling you for! Didn’t you go to art school?
Great tip. I’ve made similar process Kiridashis in the last.
🔥👍🏼
I'm almost to make that step...to begin a little forge an metal work of my own. Always wanted to since working the farm with my Papa Many years ago. Something would break and off to the smithy we'd go...just never took the time
That’s great. What a great memory.
Where can I get the light he uses on the bench vise?
Amazon. I just recently got one myself.
@@chrisholton7353 thank you
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07ZNR9JCT/ref=psdcmw_1063292_t1_B012C240BS
Hey there!
Nice little project. The lanyard holes are not needed for any woodworking tool so I'd pass on that feature. The 1000 grit would be a minimum finish. Marking knives are usually taken to the grit of my chisels and planes. 6000 and 16,000, and yes, you really do notice a difference.
Wow. I hear ya. Sharper is always better. Thanks.
Get a piece of wood and use them to practice your knife throwing. Those should work great for that.
Not a bad idea Frank.
What is the bit you used to countersink the lanyard hole
In before the people whining that a relic was destroyed....
Nice work as usual, sir.
😂😂😂
Is that a Sprunger drill press? I have an old one I got from my uncle If not, it sure looks like one...
That’s an awesome grinder Dustin
Can you tell us where you got it? Who makes it?
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Yes sir. It’s a 2x72 Revolution grinder from Brian House, at Housemade.us.
@@TheArtofCraftsmanship
Great stuff 🙏🏻👍🏻
Thanks for answering 👊🏻
Howdy Sir,
Would it be possible to get a # so I may send you a picture of one of my creations?.
I'm sure you'll get a kick out it.
Thanx Robert
I like the straight one more, but the rear is not mine, what the hole?
Great video! Now, how would the common man make these without the belt sander?
Angle grinder
Greetings from South Africa. Oh man Dustin, those are amazing. Love Devons one but they are both awesome.....how do you stop them from rusting again? Take care and be safe
Any Oil and/or Paste Wax. All readily available at local hardware store
Of course Oil and Waxes do wear off and need to be maintained with further applications. You could also Epoxy, Polyurethane, clear enamel or clear powder coat or clear ceramic coat then resharpen to reveal the point. Would maybe last longer but would have varying non metal feels to them and destroy the usefulness of the file. You would want to wax or oil whatever portion of the plastic coatings that you've removed as well.
May I ask why you didn't anneal the section you wanted to cut first?
Such a small section on a small tool. You don't need to anneal in this situation. Much Quicker to grind while hardened and no risk of warping
Plus the hardening process done to Files is much harder than you will get on your own hardening process. Add with the chance of warping the knife during this heat treat and it just doesn't make sense to go through all of that. Grind with cooling dips and just get it done quickly (: Good Job
There not that old of files the black diamond is new stuff and it can be casehardend so you might need to Harden it anyways
You may be right, but these were definitely through hardened.
Very nice work. What is that magnetic handle you use while sharpening?
A welding magnet! Available in welding supply sections of hardware store
These are great little handled magnet I get from harbor freight. www.google.com/shopping/product/7940545139898128400?q=harbor+freight+magnet+with+handle&client=safari&hl=en-us&biw=375&bih=553&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&prmd=sivn&sxsrf=ALeKk02_G_sE8VS5H_xJPB2gsWCtUeyHsg:1615243331724&prds=eto:13474008259769739706_0,cdl:1,prmr:1,cs:1
don't you know file makes your band saw dull witout any softening.
"Im going to take them to the wire wheel and clean up the rust" ok cool now you have perfectly good files and theres no need to turn them into marking knifes. Either reinitiate the rust belt, Give the steel recipes to china and hope they care, or buy or implement Japan(Nippon) steel tech. these are your only options. We're not tearing up files. U want some junk metal then go cut up some scrap you found like a water heater.
I know right. Ive seen this before and its meth induced. Youre so right. And cool and relevant.
These are old dull files, and kick ass steel. I think marking knives are a perfect second life for them. It’s either that or they would have been thrown into the dump scrap steel pile but instead I came along and bought them. What would you prefer, considering the additional “options”😉.
@@TheArtofCraftsmanship Cleaning them and recutting them (if there was even a need) to turn them back into good files. I see alot of guys making knives. But not so many making good files and just about no one making good steel and its alot easier to sharpen a knife than it is to build a file, if you where willing to live with a marking knife made out of an inferior steel that was easier to sharpen, but didnt hold its edge as well. But its a free country, so you can ruin some grandpas good set of files if you want to. Hey at least you wont have to sharpen the marking knife as often this way. A good vintage alloy file is such a joy to work with, whereas the alloy of an old leaking water heater will cut into soft wood fiber, although may require more touch ups on the blade. Its wood its soft. Whereas cutting metal demands a superior alloy.
my name is Devin I don't often find people with my name
👍🏼😁