I'm not a KOF expert but when I saw JMCrofts was picking a KOF character I was instantly like "oh he's picking Iori", so the pick has my stamp of approval at least
One thing that he forgot to mention was that Iori also has a command grab that you can combo afterwards with on top of everything else that was mentioned.
So I wasn't tripping? First, I'm like did he just say magneto never won evo. Then I'm like, did I not see champ win in 2012? Dude had me questioning myself for a hot minute. Fraud alert! Jokes aside, minor slip of the tongue on his part.
Iori is so good. And he typically can fit into any spot on your team. Character crises get solved in KOF based on whether or not you should slot in Iori.
He wasn't great in Third Strike or SF5 though...? He literally gets TOD'ed in Third Strike by a lot of characters and he's barely pretty average in SF5.
He was really high tier in every version except the most current. He's been in 17, yes count em, 17 games, and of those he was top tier in basically all of them@@nivyan
Steve Fox from Tekken is worth a mention here. He's very consistently been in the top 5, his placements ranging from "good but there are better characters" (TTT2) to "possibly the most broken Tekken character that's not in Tekken 1" (T5.0). Essentially being a low risk high reward character in the right hands does that to you.
I’d also include Jin specifically Mishima Ryu Jin who later became DVJ. Top tier in T3, God tier in TTT, Top tier in T5, Too Tier in T6, Top Tier in TTT2, Top/High tier throughout T7.
There was only one version of Steve where he isn't a high tier, in fact a struggling mid tier, and it's the arcade version of Tekken 6. Tekken 6 BR only did one change on Steve which is lowering the hitbox of his ff+2, suddenly instant top tier :| .
I’m not an MK player but from what I understand Kabal is pretty much top tier in almost all of the games he’s in so maybe if you do another one of these someone could talk about nrs characters.
Yeah kabal is top 2 in mk3 and top 1 in umk3 and trilogy. He wasn't the best in deception but he abused the mechanics well and was still high tier. He was average in armageddon but that's a given, however mk9 he was top 1 and he's (arguably) top 3 in mk11
Iori is a really great pick yeah. On 94-95 kofs there were a lot of classic shoto characters, and most of them got decloned on some way on 96 onwards. With the exception of kof 12 and base game 13, Iori kept his classic shoto moveset all along the way. This makes him so flexible/good at the basics of the game ... even if he is not a top tier, he can fit any position in any team. I feel this is a pattern for team games, if a char can contribute/fit on any position of the team, they probably will be used a lot even if they are not the absolute best. This is specially relevant on team games with tags as marvel and dbfz, where the positions are not fixed ... you are cycling, so having someone well rounded is just so useful.
He's got the shoto basics, but he also has almost every great privilege you can have as a KoF character: ) hard knockdowns off lights with no meter ) lights confirm to the same combos as heavy, every single game ) rekka to control poke range space ) command grab leading into his usual confirms (it's not 1f but it usually has *some* invul, fully invul in 98 Slugfest for example) ) standing overhead (confirms to MAX/HD from 02 onwards) ) good chain confirm (this used to be very privileged, even Kyo lacked it for a long time) ) Taco, a specialized variety of crossup that he invented ) Taco can also be used to reduce backdash recovery This keeps going. Don't even get me started on XIII EX Iori, that character is actually the GOAT.
I have to mention an example from Mortal Kombat: Kabal. In vanilla MK3 he was top 2. In Ultimate MK3 he was top 1. He has what are probably the two best special moves in the game in Nomad Dash (the best whiff punisher, exceptional speed and distance covered and sets up a full combo) and Gas Blast (gas blasts performed instantly upon jumping are so good in zoning some characters literally can't do anything to handle it). In Deception he's a high tier. In Armageddon he's a workable mid tier but this is in a game with so many characters and so much going on that it's kinda fair- and it's the only time he hasn't been high or top tier. In MK9 he is infamously top 1. He has no bad match-ups. The only match he doesn't win is the ditto against himself. His zoning is just as braindead as in MK3 and the rushdown got **infinitely** better thanks to flash parties (Armoured moves you can cancel the start-up of but keep the armour, allowing you to get a full standing punish rather than just a special. Kabal was so tied to this that in Mortal Kombat 11 they gave him a parry and named it the flash parry as a wink and a nudge to this) and the ability to cancel his nomad dash for absurd plus frames on block, or to just let it rip on hit for a full combo. And in 11, he's a very high tier character now thanks to his moveset options opening up in the final patch and allowing him to get incredible neutral and exceptional BnB damage for 1 bar. So yeah, I'd say Kabal deserves a mention cuz he's literally never been bad, and has often ventured into top 5, with 2 different games (and those 2 being among the most important and beloved in the retire franchise!) Where he's straight up top 1
I saw the title of the video and I was like "Iori, no hesitation" His moveset is so fundamentally good you need to screw up very hard for him to be weak
I'm legitimately surprised Zero from Mega Man X didn't appear on this list. He's been in four fighting games so far, (Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Marvel 3, Marvel infinite, and SNK vs Capcom), and he is one of the highest tier characters in *every single one*, which is utterly mind blowing for me. Zero as a character is just made for fighting games, it seems. Hell, just googling tier lists in all of the games he's appeared in he's top 1 in every single game except Marvel Infinite where he's top 3... even if googling a tier list isn't the most reliable way to judge a character's strength. Edit: 0:40 , 17:45 I guess this falls into "too obvious" territory. Oops.
Now that we have had videos for the eternal winners and losers, it would be interesting to see the biggest glow-ups and "glow-downs" between different games or patches.
Iori is almost definetly always a top tier. He's a face of franchise character and known for being able to spend meter for insane combos. Unless they flat out remove that (which they never will) he's gonna be at least better than average guaranteed.
1. Magneto did indeed win an EVO with fchamp. 2. Magneto has been playable in WAY more fighting games than jm mentioned, the X-Men: Mutant Academy games and X-Men Next Dimension for instance.
Carl player here in CF2. yes he does have an unblockable setup in the corner 2b: 2b 5b 5c 6b 6a j2c jb jc 2a 2a 2b 5b 5c j2c jbab+3d J.b j.c: j.b j.c 2b 5b 5c 6b 6a 6d ct 2b 5b 5c j2c jbab+3d J.b/j.c: J.b/j.c 2b 5b 5c 6b 6a 6d ct 2a 2b 5b 5c j2c jbab+3d edit: he can do it off of 5a starter, it just requires a different route cause of the combo timer differences. also note: he uses the collision box of Ada to keep him from getting out of reach by making her move forward while he does it
yes, carl does have unblockables in the corner. and iirc, you can actually time them so it's a safejump as well. it's really hard but, lmao. another rule breaking thing he has is that he can ignore pushback by having an actige ada shove him back into the opponent so barrier blocking does nothing.
If it was me i would have put baiken in there. Even ignoring azami in older games, having a parry machanic in any game is always super strong because you have to completly change your gameplan to adapt to parry. Add in the fact that baiken in strive is the only one being able to prc her reversal is super strong.
To me, the classic example of a character that has never been bad is Guilty gear Millia, before Strive existed. From the original Guilty gear, up to the latest versions of Xrd, she has never been worse than top10 or so. And she's most of the time in the talks for top5 of any version. She's the most consistently good GuiltyGear character ever.
@@lucaslennan3356Faust is also a good pick. Very solid basic gameplan that has never been bad. Jam is another one that has been consistently good outside of her very first release in rev1.
I was waiting for Narukami to pop up, in all 3 games he's been in he has been meta defining ( P4A, P4U, BBTAG ) the character even had the same luck as Magneto of going from a 1v1 game to a TAG one and being just as cracked (or even more so) than what he originally was in his OG game
I've always found it hilarious how Blazblue consistently has the same sorta top tiers all the way through. They'd straight up not touch the top tiers during balance patches but then heavily nerf or gimp the mid tier cast with each release.
Man there's even more to iori. -backdash tacos is great for making space -has a makoto style cmd grab -in old games cl C 6A super is a difficult but reliable as hell hit confirm -in newer games his dp is mutihit and so he can hit confirm into super -had an infinite in 13
Carl Clover was the character that got me into fighting games. I saw the shit he could do and immediately wanted to pull that stuff off. It took me so much practice to learn the execution, but that made it feel more special
Feel like Carl always being top tier is just a testament to how hard it is to balance a puppet character with disjoints and independant hitboxes. Same with his old man Relius. Puppet characters as a archetype is just either its busted, or its a complete waste of a character slot lol
Fox in smash bros counts i think, if you concede that smash is a fighting game haha. but just putting that discussion aside for a sec, like, Fox is at least good in every game. at worst he's like high mid tier. and for different reasons too! like obviously he's the best character in melee because of things like his frame-1 invincible jump-cancellable shine (combined with wavedashing so you can do it over and over again) and his insane recovery and speed and just diverse assortment of kill moves, but he's also very good in other games that dont even have wavedashing or jump cancelling a shine. he's just always fast, strong, and like you were saying towards the end, his only real downside is that he gets comboed and killed very easily by other characters. which of course... is common among these sorts of characters lol
I have NEVER, in my life. Heard the term “Taco Kick”, but JMcrofts opened my eyes. I was eating food when blud said that. Caught me off guard. Thx JM and LK for more great stuff
That's not really fair. Those games he was good in weren't competitive fighting games. Those were regular games with stories and he had to be designed to be at least somewhat good since he was a storyline boss.
Wrong, Filipino Champ definitely won Evo 2012 with Magneto point. I don't know who wouldn't consider him a to tier in mvc3. He has some of the best solo damage, He has excellent meter build, he has a good beam assist, he has a lv 3 that reaches full screen and you can combo after, he has excellent zoning, he has good x factor lv 3. He is one of the few characters that is top-tier in every position on the team point, second, or anchor.
I would Cammy is at least a special mention.Thlughout SF 4 and 5 in all thier versions She was consistently top tier or very strong high tier. In SF6 It also looking like she is very good
TBH you could have talked about fox from smash (i know you play melee so that's why i mention him), cus he is always regarded as like a top 10 character except many in like brawl but he was still considered better than average. insane mouvment, good recovery and high kill potential off of teq chasses is just really good aparently
Fox and Pikachu are in every smash and they're basically always top 2/5 of the cast at worst, usually higher. Fox is a little better overall, but they're definitely the golden children of the competitive scene.
This came out the week I decided to go back to marvel because of the community edition announcement and decided to learn Magneto. I swear sometimes the planet just align.
Used to play a lot of blazblue Carl. Pretty sure he has the unblockable still in CF, though haven't played since like a month after release. So long as he still has 3]D[ then he still has block string unblockable. Will say that CT Carl wasn't super crazy. He was high tier for sure, but that was only because of clap loops. His block strings and pressure were the most strict and stale that game, so getting the mix that lead to clap trap became much harder. That said, once he had you in combo you were dead if he didn't fuck up.
Kid Buu is actually kind bad in B3 because of his slow neutral Punch (Most broken thing in that game) and in Infinite World/Budokai 4 hes just ok but all the other Buus are better
Iori is a good pick he's almost always good. You could also probably put Krohnen/Nameless on that list because Krohnen like Kid Buu has never been killed by a patch and is also the best character in 02UM and easily still Top 5 in XV lol
@HellecticMojo Yeah but Kid Buu was only in one game and was LKs first pick. I also agreed Iori is strong in most games but I don't think his overall power level consistency is as high as Krohnen/Nameless who's literally never been bad in a game.
I feel like there was some miscommunication with the prompt as far as evergreen within a patch vs a game throughout its patches lol. Fun watch nonetheless, would be fun to see more of this!
I know folks here aren't big on Smash But I think Fox and Pikachu deserve to be talked about, the worst Pikachu has ever been was a mid tier in melee (and still won a major) and I dont think Fox has been anything lower than high tier within the franchise's entire existence
I don’t think there has ever been a single version of Guilty Gear where Sol isn’t a high tier or better, if you look at tier lists for old gear games between X-XX Slash he’s almost top 5 or top 6. I think his only “mid” iterations were Rev 2, and maybe early Season 2 of Strive
in CF2 Carl has a loopable unblockeable, its not universal i believe tho? but i'm not sure about that, i know he has it and that its hard to set-up tho
Fun fact, the most consistently top tier character in all of Guilty Gear is Millia! Across the entire series Millia has only been outside the top tier in XX SLASH and Strive, making her by far the most consistent character in the series. You could also she's high tier rather than top in Rev 2 but that's splitting hairs more than anything else.
Strive has quite a few options for this prompt, honestly. Chaos being the most obvious, there's also Ram, Leo, May, Chipp, Zato, and Jack-O, all of whom are consistently in the talks for top 5. I think it just comes from Arcsys' tendency to just make all of the characters really strong, leading to the ones that either use the universal mechanics especially well (Ram, Leo, Chipp) or have especially overwhelming game plans (Zato, Jack-O, Nago kinda counts here because you die if you make a single mistake) end up just staying good the entire time because Arcsys is too busy fixing the characters that ended up comparatively bad to reign in the ones that ended up naturally amazing.
When he said KOF I immediately thought "probably iori or kim" and I dont even play KOF. I'm surprised neither of you picked Guile, he's always super fucking good/solid and always does well in tournaments
@@LordKnightfgcI wouldn't say so. He was mega busted in the first versions of SF2 but kind of middle of the pack in ST, and as far as I'm aware he was unremarkable in most if not all crossover games he was in. He was bad in vanilla SF4, very strong in SSF4, then average to weak in later versions. Guile consistently has a super solid set of normals, but beyond that he is generally at the mercy of how his frame data and hitboxes work out in any individual game, and how well his charge specials mesh with the game's systems. I would say Chun-Li or Ken have more consistent high-tier track records as far as classic SF characters go.
the square strikes back
Man's being FRAMED I tell you
new rizz tech
LK’s hotbox is crazy active in this video
I think it's his hurtbox
He just downloaded the hitbox viewer and forgot to turn it off. Happens.
@@kevingriffith6011can’t believe he gets lower-body invincibility for so long, what were the devs thinking
@@krnprsd498 got that Ivan Ooze hurtbox
@@evilded2 he's crazy minus on talk
I'm not a KOF expert but when I saw JMCrofts was picking a KOF character I was instantly like "oh he's picking Iori", so the pick has my stamp of approval at least
Same I guessed Iori or maybe K'
@@Dyllyn133isn't k' is mid tier in multiple versions
Yup, the ultimate team fodder, good in basically any position.
One thing that he forgot to mention was that Iori also has a command grab that you can combo afterwards with on top of everything else that was mentioned.
Me too lol, iori is the first character in my head when talking about the character thats good in any game, with the second one being sol badguy
Magneto has never missed an evo top 8 in umvc3 or vanilla. Mag also won with Fchamp
Magneto did win Evo in Umvc3; Fchamp won in 2012
So I wasn't tripping? First, I'm like did he just say magneto never won evo. Then I'm like, did I not see champ win in 2012? Dude had me questioning myself for a hot minute. Fraud alert!
Jokes aside, minor slip of the tongue on his part.
I was thinking the exact same thing but I couldn't remember if Fchamp won Evo specifically and not some other majors
He did. I was there and salty cause I was rooting for Peter.
Iori is so good. And he typically can fit into any spot on your team. Character crises get solved in KOF based on whether or not you should slot in Iori.
Akuma needs to be included.
He is probably the most consistently great character in fighting game history.
He was kinda wack in the vs games
He wasn't great in Third Strike or SF5 though...? He literally gets TOD'ed in Third Strike by a lot of characters and he's barely pretty average in SF5.
He was good in third strike, and he was very high tier in sf5 old versions, he's only average in final patch@@nivyan
@@anonymoose2474 Then we disagree what "great" means. SF5' system was terrible for Akuma, and "good" isn't great.
He was really high tier in every version except the most current. He's been in 17, yes count em, 17 games, and of those he was top tier in basically all of them@@nivyan
Steve Fox from Tekken is worth a mention here. He's very consistently been in the top 5, his placements ranging from "good but there are better characters" (TTT2) to "possibly the most broken Tekken character that's not in Tekken 1" (T5.0). Essentially being a low risk high reward character in the right hands does that to you.
I’d also include Jin specifically Mishima Ryu Jin who later became DVJ. Top tier in T3, God tier in TTT, Top tier in T5, Too Tier in T6, Top Tier in TTT2, Top/High tier throughout T7.
Dj is low tier in this current patch of t7
@@azuresaiyan9005 yeah for sure devil jin has been high or top tier in tekken (I personally don't count tekken 3 or tag 1 jin as devil jin)
There was only one version of Steve where he isn't a high tier, in fact a struggling mid tier, and it's the arcade version of Tekken 6. Tekken 6 BR only did one change on Steve which is lowering the hitbox of his ff+2, suddenly instant top tier :| .
@@Rv3Ariez nice bait
I really think Zero deserved special mentioning because even in the non team game, his first ever game CVS Chaos, Zero was STILL a top 2 character.
Even when it's not the same zero he is still top 2 then again he was a midboss
MMZ Zero is best Zero
Zero has actually been top or high tier in every game he's been in
@@genericbonk yeah i think thats cool.
He did get a special mention. When they talked about Magneto, he said that he didn't want to choose the obvious character, Zero.
I’m not an MK player but from what I understand Kabal is pretty much top tier in almost all of the games he’s in so maybe if you do another one of these someone could talk about nrs characters.
Yeah Kabal was only average in Armageddon and earlier versions of MK11. The dude was in UMK3 and MK9 the single best character in the game
Yeah kabal is top 2 in mk3 and top 1 in umk3 and trilogy. He wasn't the best in deception but he abused the mechanics well and was still high tier. He was average in armageddon but that's a given, however mk9 he was top 1 and he's (arguably) top 3 in mk11
Yeah, when I thought about MK, I thought about like Cage or maybe Sonya, but Kabal gotta be it, that fuck.
Iori is a really great pick yeah. On 94-95 kofs there were a lot of classic shoto characters, and most of them got decloned on some way on 96 onwards. With the exception of kof 12 and base game 13, Iori kept his classic shoto moveset all along the way. This makes him so flexible/good at the basics of the game ... even if he is not a top tier, he can fit any position in any team. I feel this is a pattern for team games, if a char can contribute/fit on any position of the team, they probably will be used a lot even if they are not the absolute best. This is specially relevant on team games with tags as marvel and dbfz, where the positions are not fixed ... you are cycling, so having someone well rounded is just so useful.
❤
He's got the shoto basics, but he also has almost every great privilege you can have as a KoF character:
) hard knockdowns off lights with no meter
) lights confirm to the same combos as heavy, every single game
) rekka to control poke range space
) command grab leading into his usual confirms (it's not 1f but it usually has *some* invul, fully invul in 98 Slugfest for example)
) standing overhead (confirms to MAX/HD from 02 onwards)
) good chain confirm (this used to be very privileged, even Kyo lacked it for a long time)
) Taco, a specialized variety of crossup that he invented
) Taco can also be used to reduce backdash recovery
This keeps going. Don't even get me started on XIII EX Iori, that character is actually the GOAT.
LK is so confident he is showing his face hurt box, knowing no one will ever reach it.
I hope you make a sequel to this and keep talking about characters who always end up being top tiers
This was super fun to watch, and I'm always here for Everybody Hates Carl Clover hours. That child did more damage to my psyche than JJBA:HftF
When you said it wasn't Rachel I really thought you were going with Litchi. BlazBlue really has some perennial top tiers huh
I have to mention an example from Mortal Kombat: Kabal.
In vanilla MK3 he was top 2.
In Ultimate MK3 he was top 1. He has what are probably the two best special moves in the game in Nomad Dash (the best whiff punisher, exceptional speed and distance covered and sets up a full combo) and Gas Blast (gas blasts performed instantly upon jumping are so good in zoning some characters literally can't do anything to handle it).
In Deception he's a high tier.
In Armageddon he's a workable mid tier but this is in a game with so many characters and so much going on that it's kinda fair- and it's the only time he hasn't been high or top tier.
In MK9 he is infamously top 1. He has no bad match-ups. The only match he doesn't win is the ditto against himself. His zoning is just as braindead as in MK3 and the rushdown got **infinitely** better thanks to flash parties (Armoured moves you can cancel the start-up of but keep the armour, allowing you to get a full standing punish rather than just a special. Kabal was so tied to this that in Mortal Kombat 11 they gave him a parry and named it the flash parry as a wink and a nudge to this) and the ability to cancel his nomad dash for absurd plus frames on block, or to just let it rip on hit for a full combo.
And in 11, he's a very high tier character now thanks to his moveset options opening up in the final patch and allowing him to get incredible neutral and exceptional BnB damage for 1 bar.
So yeah, I'd say Kabal deserves a mention cuz he's literally never been bad, and has often ventured into top 5, with 2 different games (and those 2 being among the most important and beloved in the retire franchise!) Where he's straight up top 1
I saw the title of the video and I was like "Iori, no hesitation"
His moveset is so fundamentally good you need to screw up very hard for him to be weak
I'm legitimately surprised Zero from Mega Man X didn't appear on this list. He's been in four fighting games so far, (Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Marvel 3, Marvel infinite, and SNK vs Capcom), and he is one of the highest tier characters in *every single one*, which is utterly mind blowing for me. Zero as a character is just made for fighting games, it seems.
Hell, just googling tier lists in all of the games he's appeared in he's top 1 in every single game except Marvel Infinite where he's top 3... even if googling a tier list isn't the most reliable way to judge a character's strength.
Edit: 0:40 , 17:45 I guess this falls into "too obvious" territory. Oops.
If you would watch the whole thing you'd know that they mentioned not wanting easy picks like Zero or Akuma
@@gamerkingmayathe064th5 Ah. fair enough. Woops.
Fighters committed to the canon: once 16 was killed, he was never brought back
Now that we have had videos for the eternal winners and losers, it would be interesting to see the biggest glow-ups and "glow-downs" between different games or patches.
*looks at sf3 Sean
EX-Iori was most definitely top tier in KOF 13
Iori is almost definetly always a top tier. He's a face of franchise character and known for being able to spend meter for insane combos. Unless they flat out remove that (which they never will) he's gonna be at least better than average guaranteed.
1. Magneto did indeed win an EVO with fchamp.
2. Magneto has been playable in WAY more fighting games than jm mentioned, the X-Men: Mutant Academy games and X-Men Next Dimension for instance.
Carl player here in CF2. yes he does have an unblockable setup in the corner
2b:
2b 5b 5c 6b 6a j2c jb jc 2a 2a 2b 5b 5c j2c jbab+3d
J.b j.c:
j.b j.c 2b 5b 5c 6b 6a 6d ct 2b 5b 5c j2c jbab+3d
J.b/j.c:
J.b/j.c 2b 5b 5c 6b 6a 6d ct 2a 2b 5b 5c j2c jbab+3d
edit: he can do it off of 5a starter, it just requires a different route cause of the combo timer differences.
also note: he uses the collision box of Ada to keep him from getting out of reach by making her move forward while he does it
“There’s no way 8 way airdash isn’t broken” *stares at strive bedman*
Leave Bedman alone, his airdash is all he has haha
Not really the same thing. Bedman 8 dash is a lot slower than magneto's and is on a character whohas bad movement aside from it
Cloud805 could go on for days about why kid buu is mid now 😭
Great video! I love these collab videos where I get to learn things about sub-genres of fighting games that I don't frequently play or watch!
yes, carl does have unblockables in the corner. and iirc, you can actually time them so it's a safejump as well. it's really hard but, lmao.
another rule breaking thing he has is that he can ignore pushback by having an actige ada shove him back into the opponent so barrier blocking does nothing.
F Champ won the first UMVC3 Evo with Mag/Doom/Dorm right?
If it was me i would have put baiken in there. Even ignoring azami in older games, having a parry machanic in any game is always super strong because you have to completly change your gameplan to adapt to parry. Add in the fact that baiken in strive is the only one being able to prc her reversal is super strong.
The only game where she isn't like super strong is in rev 2,but she's a good character in strive tho to make up for that.
I feel like the square adds to the experience
If this hasn’t been done already, do one where who got nerfed so hard that it was tragic. My pick is Rachel from bb ct to cs
To me, the classic example of a character that has never been bad is Guilty gear Millia, before Strive existed.
From the original Guilty gear, up to the latest versions of Xrd, she has never been worse than top10 or so. And she's most of the time in the talks for top5 of any version.
She's the most consistently good GuiltyGear character ever.
Definitely Faust is THE pick pre Strive. I remember people were SHOCKED he was bad when Strive dropped because it had simply never happened before.
@@lucaslennan3356even Baldhead was pretty good.
@@lucaslennan3356Faust is also a good pick. Very solid basic gameplan that has never been bad. Jam is another one that has been consistently good outside of her very first release in rev1.
For me the one that comes to mind is Baiken
He said mag ain't considered top in mvc3!? naaaaa get him outta here. Dudes easily top 5
I was waiting for Narukami to pop up, in all 3 games he's been in he has been meta defining ( P4A, P4U, BBTAG ) the character even had the same luck as Magneto of going from a 1v1 game to a TAG one and being just as cracked (or even more so) than what he originally was in his OG game
I was looking for this comment. I remember how they nerfed his sweep into D going into Ultimax and he still ended up being busted.
Love these twos chemistry in these videos, hope we get more content with LK and White Square!
I've always found it hilarious how Blazblue consistently has the same sorta top tiers all the way through. They'd straight up not touch the top tiers during balance patches but then heavily nerf or gimp the mid tier cast with each release.
Steve Fox and Pikachu watching this video: 😮
Man there's even more to iori.
-backdash tacos is great for making space
-has a makoto style cmd grab
-in old games cl C 6A super is a difficult but reliable as hell hit confirm
-in newer games his dp is mutihit and so he can hit confirm into super
-had an infinite in 13
We knew LK was a square but damn
I thumbed up on mags too fair in marvel 3.
Iori in every game = Ken in Third Strike. Low risk, High Reward.
Carl is the "hidden" best character
Carl Clover was the character that got me into fighting games. I saw the shit he could do and immediately wanted to pull that stuff off. It took me so much practice to learn the execution, but that made it feel more special
LK hit box is busted his hit box doesn’t even cover his hole head
Feel like Carl always being top tier is just a testament to how hard it is to balance a puppet character with disjoints and independant hitboxes. Same with his old man Relius. Puppet characters as a archetype is just either its busted, or its a complete waste of a character slot lol
Fox in smash bros counts i think, if you concede that smash is a fighting game haha. but just putting that discussion aside for a sec, like, Fox is at least good in every game. at worst he's like high mid tier. and for different reasons too! like obviously he's the best character in melee because of things like his frame-1 invincible jump-cancellable shine (combined with wavedashing so you can do it over and over again) and his insane recovery and speed and just diverse assortment of kill moves, but he's also very good in other games that dont even have wavedashing or jump cancelling a shine. he's just always fast, strong, and like you were saying towards the end, his only real downside is that he gets comboed and killed very easily by other characters. which of course... is common among these sorts of characters lol
I have NEVER, in my life.
Heard the term “Taco Kick”, but JMcrofts opened my eyes.
I was eating food when blud said that. Caught me off guard.
Thx JM and LK for more great stuff
Even in the Budokai games and some Dragon Ball games before it, Kid Buu is very good.
That's not really fair. Those games he was good in weren't competitive fighting games. Those were regular games with stories and he had to be designed to be at least somewhat good since he was a storyline boss.
@@randumo24 is true, but i keep my point. Also, even those games have a competitive tier list.
@@randumo24 Budokai 3 and Infinite World absolutely were competitive fighting games
Wrong, Filipino Champ definitely won Evo 2012 with Magneto point. I don't know who wouldn't consider him a to tier in mvc3. He has some of the best solo damage, He has excellent meter build, he has a good beam assist, he has a lv 3 that reaches full screen and you can combo after, he has excellent zoning, he has good x factor lv 3. He is one of the few characters that is top-tier in every position on the team point, second, or anchor.
I think you could say Tekken's Devil Jin or Steve, they're always for sure high tier or better.
Iori is in a similar position in CvS2 (high but not top). He and Geese are top 2 SNK characters.
Now do an ALWAYS LOW TIER video, that would be cool too.
The entire grappler archetype
No love for Kabal? He has been top-high tier in every game he has been in
He could be a nice candidate for a part 2
You are wrong for using those TH-cam ass emotes
Is the square around you head an editing mistake? Or is it a method of getting people to maintain focus on the vid? because its working lmao.
Editing mistake I think
No, he’s dodging the sniper aimed at him
that’s his hitbox
I would Cammy is at least a special mention.Thlughout SF 4 and 5 in all thier versions She was consistently top tier or very strong high tier. In SF6 It also looking like she is very good
Cammy was pretty bad in every variation of SF2.
She was also bad in ST so that sort of sours it.
Cammy is the worst character in ST
She's also not great in Alpha 3, which makes me sad as a life long Cammy Main.
But she's still the truth in CvS2
TBH you could have talked about fox from smash (i know you play melee so that's why i mention him), cus he is always regarded as like a top 10 character except many in like brawl but he was still considered better than average. insane mouvment, good recovery and high kill potential off of teq chasses is just really good aparently
Fox and Pikachu are in every smash and they're basically always top 2/5 of the cast at worst, usually higher. Fox is a little better overall, but they're definitely the golden children of the competitive scene.
@@CalebBlack yeah probably could also include marth/lucina in there to
This came out the week I decided to go back to marvel because of the community edition announcement and decided to learn Magneto. I swear sometimes the planet just align.
Used to play a lot of blazblue Carl. Pretty sure he has the unblockable still in CF, though haven't played since like a month after release. So long as he still has 3]D[ then he still has block string unblockable. Will say that CT Carl wasn't super crazy. He was high tier for sure, but that was only because of clap loops. His block strings and pressure were the most strict and stale that game, so getting the mix that lead to clap trap became much harder. That said, once he had you in combo you were dead if he didn't fuck up.
When LK brought up Kid Buu, I thought he was gonna bring up the Budokai and raging blast games lmao
Kid Buu is actually kind bad in B3 because of his slow neutral Punch (Most broken thing in that game) and in Infinite World/Budokai 4 hes just ok but all the other Buus are better
Carl has an unblockable in bbcf2 that's also DP safe. also in tune with the rule breaking shit he can also easily side swap off guard cancel.
In addition his doll DP always come out even if you hit Carl so even if you bait his guard cancel successfully it's usually still not your turn
Iori is a good pick he's almost always good. You could also probably put Krohnen/Nameless on that list because Krohnen like Kid Buu has never been killed by a patch and is also the best character in 02UM and easily still Top 5 in XV lol
He's not appeared often though. Iori is a staple you get every game
@HellecticMojo Yeah but Kid Buu was only in one game and was LKs first pick. I also agreed Iori is strong in most games but I don't think his overall power level consistency is as high as Krohnen/Nameless who's literally never been bad in a game.
Yun
Genei Jin is certainly a move of all time
Look out LK! Happy Chaos is trying to take aim on you!
I feel like there was some miscommunication with the prompt as far as evergreen within a patch vs a game throughout its patches lol. Fun watch nonetheless, would be fun to see more of this!
Surprised jmcroft didn't mention Magnetos cr LK that has a startup of 1 frame lol.
Surprised we didnt get Eddie/Zato. I feel hes been a soild pick in GG games since XX
Frame-LK, we meet again.
@4:18 FChamp won evo with magneto in 2012
I know folks here aren't big on Smash
But I think Fox and Pikachu deserve to be talked about, the worst Pikachu has ever been was a mid tier in melee (and still won a major) and I dont think Fox has been anything lower than high tier within the franchise's entire existence
No Akuma?
I don’t think there has ever been a single version of Guilty Gear where Sol isn’t a high tier or better, if you look at tier lists for old gear games between X-XX Slash he’s almost top 5 or top 6. I think his only “mid” iterations were Rev 2, and maybe early Season 2 of Strive
Does anyone know the theme around 1:10~2:52?
…I found it. It’s the Swamp-Theme.
in CF2 Carl has a loopable unblockeable, its not universal i believe tho? but i'm not sure about that, i know he has it and that its hard to set-up tho
LK has a sniper on him and JMCrofts is in the shadow dimension man both of yall scuffed as'ell in this vid LOL
Iori is so fundamentally solid he's top tier even when he's wearing feathers and called Belial.
My Lord cannot escape da box...
dude I love Sniper Scope lol
Should have definitely gave attention to Akuma. Would have been funny if you explained how good he is in Tekken lol.
"characters who's only downside is health"
Sf6 Zangief over here with his only upside being health might reinforce that argument.
If you ever want to venture into 3D games I'd say Steve Fox from Tekken is always good
Fun fact, the most consistently top tier character in all of Guilty Gear is Millia! Across the entire series Millia has only been outside the top tier in XX SLASH and Strive, making her by far the most consistent character in the series. You could also she's high tier rather than top in Rev 2 but that's splitting hairs more than anything else.
splittin hairs… nice
F Champ got second place at evo too with him
Kabal and Akuma have always been strong characters as well
From what I’ve seen Nagoryuki and Happy Chaos have been that for Strive, seems like a match between the two is pretty common in tournaments
For this kind of list I’d probably pick Ram. Even with the tweaks throughout the patches she’s still remained insanely good.
Strive has quite a few options for this prompt, honestly. Chaos being the most obvious, there's also Ram, Leo, May, Chipp, Zato, and Jack-O, all of whom are consistently in the talks for top 5. I think it just comes from Arcsys' tendency to just make all of the characters really strong, leading to the ones that either use the universal mechanics especially well (Ram, Leo, Chipp) or have especially overwhelming game plans (Zato, Jack-O, Nago kinda counts here because you die if you make a single mistake) end up just staying good the entire time because Arcsys is too busy fixing the characters that ended up comparatively bad to reign in the ones that ended up naturally amazing.
When he said KOF I immediately thought "probably iori or kim" and I dont even play KOF. I'm surprised neither of you picked Guile, he's always super fucking good/solid and always does well in tournaments
Capcom isn't really my wheelhouse, is Guile always good?
@@LordKnightfgcI wouldn't say so. He was mega busted in the first versions of SF2 but kind of middle of the pack in ST, and as far as I'm aware he was unremarkable in most if not all crossover games he was in. He was bad in vanilla SF4, very strong in SSF4, then average to weak in later versions. Guile consistently has a super solid set of normals, but beyond that he is generally at the mercy of how his frame data and hitboxes work out in any individual game, and how well his charge specials mesh with the game's systems. I would say Chun-Li or Ken have more consistent high-tier track records as far as classic SF characters go.
"theres no way 8-way airdash isnt gonna be good" Captain marvel would like a word
GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT
Before watching, I'm expecting Zero, Iori, and Sol
Carl is a lot more consistent through the versions than Zato
Not picking cell to represent dbz is wild, cell is good in the most obscure dbz fighters out there including fighterz.
Jin Kazama and Steve Fox
Steve in Tekken is always great no matter what
I wonder why your mic sounds kinda weird or far away even tho you’re right next to it
I've been convinced that it's impossible for Carl to be bad since CT
Magneto wok evo on Fchamps team
i believe Carl was only high tier in CPEX
Fulgore in KI. They more they nerfed him the better he got.
Fchamp literally went crazy with magneto for YEARS he doesn't have to win evo to be good lol.
is magneto not in X-men children of the Atom?
only as an unlockable boss and he is good in a SF2 Akuma unfair way
Boss character. Not playable in that
@@DDDorsett he's playable now
Pikachu in smash is never bad.
LK hurtbox is the best character in the game. its so small compared to the rest of his body.