@@mattstorm360 Cause it did. The algorithm didn't care, it was an unthinking piece of code doing what it was designed to do. The reviewer actively wanted not to find fraud, because finding fraud was bad for hte company's image and would cost the company money. Which is worse than not caring at all.
The algorithm had transaction history from every card the individual has ever been issued and makes a determination designed to flag any probable fraud. The person is given a limited amount of data to make a decision based on and bank policy designed to be in compliance with a loose interpretation of the regulations and minimize cost to the bank.
@@MelissiaBlackheart Reviewing and investigating takes time... time is money... and no alphabet agency or group is making them investigate... so don't need to...
I remember in the 90's I went into Manhattan, about 100 miles away exactly from home. AMEX must have had algorithms then too, my card was instantly declined, after the merchant not telling me he tried it four times, which ticked me off - I could get it another time or on another card, he asked if I wanted to talk to AMEX, I agreed, when they said they were concerned I wasn't near home, and four attempts were made using the card, I said issue me a new card. I didn't trust that merchant anymore. Come to find out, the replacement card counter was on a lower level of the hotel i was staying at. Which about the same year, I went to a small truckstop for gas close to work, they wanted to xerox my card and license, I said no damn way, paid cash and left with other items I wanted left on the counter.. I should have spilled the soda. I should add, I'm surprised that my card doesn't get alerts for one of the two adjacent states each about 100 miles away, and I tried to put a travel alert when I knew I was going to mom's, they only let me designate one state, but a lot of shopping in the area is across another state line KCMO has very little decent shopping, without going up by the airport, but Johnson County in Kansas has tons. So I have to tell them I'm going to Kansas, and hope for the best shopping near mom's
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams
that signature thing reminds me of this case where the guy would always sign with a pen*s doodle. At some point it reached a court where the court upheld that the doodle was indeed a valid form of signature.
Trusting in signatures is silly. “the use of any name, including a trade or assumed name, or by a word, mark, or symbol executed or adopted by a person with present intention to authenticate a writing.” So yes even X marks the spot is a valid signature, so long as you made it.
We've been chip and pin in the great white north here for ages now. I remember heading down to the US once and being utterly confused when they had me insert my card, but then sign the receipt instead of entering my pin. I have no ability to comprehend which chip and pin isn't ubiquitous in the US. A few years later I wowed cashiers in silicon valley every time I tapped my card to pay for something. Each time they freaked, saying it won't work, I would do it anyways. It would beep, the charge would complete, and the cashier was left dumbfounded. I found it so ironic that tapping to pay was a novel thing in silicon valley, yet we'd had it for years already. Of course now with Apple and Samsung pay it's a common thing.
It's not so bad if one understands the whole process from kit to kaboodle. But there are a lot of technicalities that need to happen behind the scenes to make one simple thing happen in front of the cash register.
@@crissd8283 Hahaha, right, stealing the card and then scribbling on a piece of paper (nobody actually CHECKS whether the signature is correct) vs setting up a thermal camera, and THEN stealing the card and using it? Come on. Ya, chip and pin isn't perfect, but holy hell is it better than signatures, which are utterly useless. Physical card fraud basically disappeared overnight when we went full chip and pin (of course the fraud moved to online transactions, but that's another story). Note also that accepting chip and pin is CHEAPER for merchants since their liability is lessened (the banks charge them less for chip and pin transactions vs signature verified because of the vast reduction in fraud). It's honestly win, win, win, win, win. What possible reason would you, or anyone have, against chip and pin?
Every interaction with BofA since 1975 has been terrible for me. I only did business because they bought my local bank. Closed my account as quickly as I could. They made me jump through hoops, holding funds, to do that too. Worst bank I know of for the account holders.
I 2nd that. I just posted my own story with BoA that had to do with signing me for a credit card without my knowledge or permission. And then the subsequent issues with overdraft protection and late fees on a credit card that I didn't know existed.
There's plenty of blackhat/defcon (among other's published research) to show how easy it is (some even how you could do it) but they don't have as big of an audience like mythbusters
Tap and go cards can be read while in your purse or wallet. Then replicated and used. I know a guy that was charged for bus ride that never happened. He got the refund after some hassle with the bus company. So do I trust Tap and Go to be 100% safe? NO.
A very similar thing happened to me with USAA (first part was exactly the same, but the resolution was different). I spent an immense amount of time on the phone with USAA trying to get their representatives to do the right thing. I filed a few CFPB complaints and got increasingly boneheaded responses. Once I felt like I had enough information from USAA's representatives, I put together a binder with everything I had, looked up the relevant laws, and put those excerpts in my binder as well. I then had my courthouse do a business search to find USAA's serving address and filed a case in small claims. In the forms, I very concisely stated what I had and why I believed USAA owed me money. Nothing happened for months, until about 2 weeks before my court date, the money magically appeared as a credit on my card statement. I was later contacted by a USAA lawyer with the request that I sign papers to drop the case, which I did -- they kindly submitted them for me . TL;DR: Once a bank decides you're in the wrong, gather the information you need, and file in court. Or I suppose contact the news like that person did.
With respect, usually small claims courts allow you to recoup the cost of filing. Also, if you incurred costs compiling the evidence, such as postage, copying costs*, etc, you may be reimbursed for those as well. Usually, small claims court will tell the defendant that they are to repay the money into the court and not directly to the claimant. *sometimes a business will charge for a copy of their video.
@@alanmcentee9457 That's a great point! In California, the $35 fee was not worth going to court over. In Texas, the $120 fee might be. Hopefully I never have to do this again, but if I do, that would change the equation for me.
I hope you settled for more then just the mistake. Your time is money. They should be billed just like they would bill us or make us pay for court and legal fee's
@@nomore-constipation I was just happy to get my money back. Most of the time I spent was actually on the phone with the bank, not working on small claims stuff, so although I kept track it didn't seem worth it. Additionally, the kinds of damages that California small claims court was OK with awarding seemed somewhat more limited than what I've typically heard of in full-blown civil court, from what I remember from the court's forms and educational documentation.
I’ve had the same signature argument with my Dad. He’s adamant that it must be my full legal name, even though his isn’t. I try and tell him I could write an “X”, and legally it must be accepted, as my signature is whatever the hell I want it to be.
Literally had the same argument with my mom, but she just couldn't wrap her head around "signature" not being defined as "your full name written in cursive". I said you could draw any doodle you want and it would be valid, like a bird or a cat face, but she was adamant it had to be your name.
I usually use my middle name and that is how people know me. That is how I sign my name. When I bought me house I got a call from the title company that I needed to come back in and resign all the documents with my full name. I explained how I am known by my middle name but they insisted. I went in and resigned about a dozen pages then told them that that would be $2.50 /pg. They said no so I gathered all the documents in front of me and left. When they complained that I couldn't take the documents I told them they should have thought of that before they insisted that they wouldn't file the documents. I already had signed copies of the documents and witnesses that I had signed them. I got a visit from the police the next day. I explained the problem. He told me I had to return the documents and I told him I didn't have to. A few days later I got a check for $100.
Back in the late 50s my mum worked at a store in a small town in northern BC, Canada, sort of a hardware/supply/clothing/grocery et cetera place that served not only the town but the much wider rural area around it (think mainly logging and ranching). As back in those days banks were open 10 am to 3 pm Monday to Friday this store offered a check cashing service to guys making it in to town from wherever they worked to get their money after bankers' hours and buy stuff or just hit the beer halls. Mum remembered how a lot of these guys were illiterate and would endorse their pay checks with an "X". She would witness it by writing "His mark" and signing to that effect. Simpler times, I guess, but that was normal.
Same thing for athletes having to sign paperwork right after the event. My dad wrestled back in the 70's and was too tired after the match to sign his full name, so he just slashed X on the signature line. Nowadays, he doodles a bunny instead if he wants to be creative.
After a conversation with a bank employee on this subject several years ago I was told "see ID" was a valid signature. I now routinely show my drivers license when using my cards. Works great!
How many people actually ask? I never bother signing my cards, and from experience people never glance at the back let alone the name field. Does it look credit card shaped? Into the machine it goes.
@@andyruse4670 yup, none of my cards are signed and no one ever asks. I also regularly use my MILs card to buy cigarettes for her and I'm never asked for my ID for any of it 🤣
Not In Australia. Banks said that was not valid here. The handful of customers that had see I'd as their signature got annoyed when I refused to accept it. Thankfully we have had tap and go and tap and pin these days.
I wrote Check ID on my cards for years, but only ever had a couple people ask to see the ID. These days, the card reader is on our side and the clerk never touches the card, so how can they compare a signature? I routinely sign with "It was Me!" when asked.Nobody has ever said anything about it.
Years ago we had an attorney who treated signing his name as a formal ceremony. He spent a few moments centering the paper squarely in front of him, momentarily placing his hands palm down on the desk each side of the paper, picks up the pen which had been placed parallel to the item to be signed, fully extends his arm holding the pen outright and then brings it into signing position. He then signed his name, adding his customary flourishes to the capital letters, including his middle initial, and a partial underline of his name extending from the end of the last letter of his last name. Then the pen was placed back on the desk, parallel to the sheet and he would await the next item to be signed. His signature was a work of art and so precise it would be hard to find a difference from one document to another. It would take him forever to sign all the papers required at the two property closings he conducted for us. My wife and I were young and didn't have a lot of money and were glad that he was a friend of my parents and wasn't charging us by the hour. But we did love to watch him sign things.
I'm picturing Jimmy Fallon signing his "Thank you" notes every Friday night. It's one thing to do it for comedy. It's entirely another if you're being serious about it.
Part of that is for legal reasons, especially if that attorney is/was also a notary. Having a recognizable, easily matchable signature to the attorney's/notary's official signature helps to validate any document that they sign (though the Notary's seal on the document is a much more official validation to the document, but still requires the signature).
I still write "check id" on mine... About the only times I ever get asked for ID is very large purchases (typically they glance at the pic/me and verify the name is the same) or age restricted stuff (seems like they don't even look and/or they see the 19xx year in my DOB).
@@buckeyenative1365 Yeah, most of them don't have a clue. If you don't sign the card, it means that they need to compare your signature with another ID like your drivers license. A lot of them will just not accept your card until you sign it. You tell them what that means and they'll just sit there, "No, you HAVE TO sign the card or I can't take it." When he calls his dumbass boss, he'll tell you the same thing. That's why I use the self-checkout. There's a lot fewer dipshits that I have to deal with.
@@abrahamlincoln9758 which country says that? Its more a difficulty thing. Like the amount of effort to counterfeit a Australian note accurately probably would actually cost more then the face value most of the time. Of course that’s assuming someone actually checks the security features at all before it gets to a bank to be detected automatically.
@@abrahamlincoln9758 ones and fivers are the most counter fitted. as 99% of the retailors dont even check em an there are counter fit pens out there as well.
Couple of quick notes: About a month ago, I had some fraudulent charges show up on my debit card (not with BoA, BTW). I called, they froze the card and expedited me a new one. They also emailed me an affidavit that I filled out and faxed back to the bank stating that no, I hadn't eaten in three LA area restaurants that day and then ordered $100 of stuff from a well-known woman's clothing website. Within two days, they put the money back in the account. On not signing the card: Back in my retail days (this was long enough ago that they signed the paper receipt), if someone hadn't signed a card, we asked for another form of ID. I had people say "I never sign the card because if you do that, they just have to learn to copy your signature". That overlooks the fact that if you don't sign the card, someone doesn't even have to do that. If you put something like "Ask for ID" on the signature panel, at least is stops someone from scribbling any damned thing in the panel and passing it off as your signature.
This I agree! I’ve been using “Check Id” for years now! However I just go hit for $60 from an online survey! I had completed the survey and they offer a free gift if I would just pay for shipping! The few dollars No problem cover that amount by card! Three days later found something online I needed so I went to purchase it but system came back saying card was “declined” check my account and found someone was trying to make a withdrawal right at that very moment! I call the bank immediately and requested that transaction to be stopped on my card blocked! I went into bank the next day to file paperwork for new card and to make sure everything was ok!!! Well no problem getting the new card but the bank decided to pay that fraudulent charge anyway! I asked that the money to be returned to me! They refuse and said as long as I was in contact with that business I had to pay no matter what! According to the bank they have an agreement with the credit card company that they will pay that bill (and in my case a fine!) even if disputed! And that bank is INDEPENDANT BANK they(the ahead of their fraud division) said they have a deal with Visa and MasterCard to pay those kind of bills) I told them fine you pay it I was not going to because I had contacted them(Independent bank)before the transaction was completed! They told me again too bad because I had contacted them and so I own it!!! Well my contact with the survey at The Homedepot suddenly was linked to a garbage fraudulent company in California which I never heard of) Again I explain to INDEPENDENT BANK that I was in contact with THE HOMEDEPOT SURVEY and not the third world fraudulent company from the THIRD WORLD STATE of CALIFORNIA! THE INDEPENDENT BANKS remain firm ! It didn’t matter that as a customer and a card holder from INDEPENDENT BANK nor did it matter that I asked for the transaction to be stopped BEFORE it was completed the INDEPENDENT BANK just choose to pay this fraudulent company even before anything was completed! The deal was the survey company (whom I now know wasn’t The Homedepot) was to send me a gift but instead of sending what I agree to they sent some stupid crap! Also, while and before I agreed to the shipping fee I was given the notice of satisfaction guaranteed or all of my money returned to me including shipping! Hence why I’m writing this today!!! This was a scam which the INDEPENDENT BANK has agree to “HELP” fraud “no matter the reason” THESE ARE INDEPENDENT BANK’S own words!!! Apparently The Homedepot was not involved with this it was all done by INDEPENDENT BANK and their involvement with the fraudulent credit card company called MASTERCARD and it’s doing!!! SO INDEPENDENT BANK was your dealing with a fraudulent credit card company worth about $60 you allowed the credit card company steal from me??? Independent Bank just so you know I’ll be posting this everywhere, anyplace, to anyone, talking about money! Enjoy the your cheap friends and the free advertising!!!
I once received an automatic replacement for my expired card. The problem was that it was somebody else’s card. I called what I thought was the customer support number, but I got only the message that “your card is now activated.” When I finally got a live person, she cancelled that card and sent me a new one. She seemed singularly unconcerned that there was probably a whole sequence of cards that had been sent to the wrong people. I’ve also had a replacement card stolen from my mailbox. These were all with BoA. They’ve always been good with me about removing fraudulent charges, though. It is not a 100% foolproof system.
I worked at a shoe store over 10 years ago and our machines didn't have chip readers, just swipe or those carbon copies when the system was down. One day a couple came in and scooped up a ton of shoes. I went to swipe the card and when he signed the slip I noticed that the signature didn't match. I asked for ID and it wasn't the same guy. He was having a fit and demanded the manager. So I grab my manager and tell her that I'm certain the cards are stolen and we need to call the cops. What does she do? Engages with him, debates him about him losing weight (the ID was fairly new btw, no lost weight), about how much taller he looks (ID had the guy at 5 foot 8 inches and the guy in front of us was like 6 foot 3 inches) and SHE LET THEM WALK OUT WITH THE SHOES! Well, cops demand that we go in and identify the person and ask why we didn't check ID etc. I threw my manager under the bus. All the warning signs were there but she balked at actually doing the right thing and I couldn't stand by and not tell the truth. Nothing came of it but I knew that I couldn't count on her to make a rational decision from that point on in terms of fraud.
I once had a charge by a car sharing AP (I have never used) in Hong Kong the exact same time I was in Wal-Mart 1 mile from my home in Texas. I made purchase within 20 minutes of Hong Kong charge. I only have one card, 1 person, me, on card. So much grief... from their fraud department. I caught that charge within 24 hrs. Same individual then tried several thousand charge which was blocked as I was on my landline phone with fraud department.
And once again, there's a requirement to get the public interest (via social or traditional media) before you get a reasonable response from an institution. smh
This is EXACTLY what happened to me when I was with Wells Fargo. I saw a $75 charge from a gas station in Compton. Never been there. They refunded me, made it right. Couple years later, I see a charge for $312 for 2 concert tickets for some (K)rapper named Lil Wayne. This time they said you gave out the pin number, therefore legal transaction. I cancelled the card and subsequently my account at the bank.
I recently had my card replaced. I went shopping before I set up my new PIN. I told the cashier that I would be back. The manager spoke up and loudly told the cashier "Whenever someone forgets their PIN just hit the green button." And I was NEVER asked for a signature. Or ID.
Not surprised, I have always considered BOA to be a predatory bank anyway. Signatures: If you have ever worked at a polling place and see how different signatures have changed from the provided example, it's funny. Signatures from when people first started voting (provided as comparison by polling place) does not look the same as their signature at age 50.
SKANK of America is so bad, when the landlord was going on vacation they gave us each a deposit slip to take our cash to their branch, the bank refused our rent payments as we were not the named depositor, the landlord had to send her son put to collect the rents.
They also differ according to the surface they are on, the posture of the signer, and even the time of day. The biggest difference is when signing with a fingernail on a hand held tablet vs using a pen on a hard surface.
@5:25 According to some card agreements, the signature on the card isn't about verification of your signature, but rather you acknowledging that you will abide by the terms of the credit card agreement.
This happened to my sister. When she demanded a copy of the signature it wasn’t even her name! It was a visa debit and her bank claimed she had entered her PIN. When she demanded the signature she discovered it was actually run as a credit card not as a debit and it was an inside job at the store. Someone had inserted a skimmer on the line and copied the visa number associated then made a fake Visa card with the information on the magnetic strip matching her visa and the name matching the person using its ID. She was able to fight it with this additional information and showed that she never used it without the PIN. The store pulled surveillance cameras and sure enough it was not her - it was some guy.
Skimmer reads the mag stripe and the data read is transferred to another card. Using the card with copied stripe, transactions are then processed with a signature. This has nothing to do with the secure chip on the card.
Yeah those are always fun. I once had a card that the bank actually caught in real time spending money near my house(me), then in Topeka and Seattle, all within an hour of each other. Guess they cared back then.
The time my card was fraudulently used I had made an online purchase and a few hours later it was used in Russia. My bank actually called me and asked if the purchases were legitimate, including the one I had made.
I had a similar problem with BOA. I was sitting at dinner when I received a text alert from BOA, that may card was suspected as being used. The thieves dinged the card 8-10 times, the first attempts for a couple of dollars, then a $1200 charge for digital media, then a couple of other couple dollar charges, then another couple of digital media charges. All in all, almost $2,000. BOA credited my account, then a month later pulled the funds back again. BOA claimed it was me, as they used my zip code. The IP address for the downloads was no where close to where I lived.
A while back when a bank emailed me that they were mailing a credit or debit card, for a couple of years I had several times it did not arrive. I would then call and have them resend it via UPS or Fedex. So then when I got the email notice I would proactively call and ask them not to send through regular mail, but that was not an option. I had to wait for it to get lost/stolen first before they would resend it via a more secure delivery.
6:02 - I had to do this repeatedly when I worked retail _(and have argued the point w/ retail workers who didn't understand...)._ It's not a crime to use someone else's card and you just sign you _own_ name _(don't "forge" the name of whoever the card belongs to)._ -- It's a contract and you're simply signing for the sale for the card holder. That's the system in place so they can _dispute_ it if it wasn't an approved transaction but people just got so weird about using their parent's/spouse's card and they always seemed to have the same fear that by signing their own name they were somehow doing something wrong as if signing a name that _wasn't_ theirs wasn't _actual_ fraud but rather legally preferable simply because it matched the name on the card...
Doesn’t those “ stores “ have security cameras, they do and the card charges are also time recorded so various cameras would have him on video and the bank knows this ! I think the fraud is from within the bank, I had a B of A account and I had issues with my account balance too often and I closed my business with them ! Also they are responsible for any unauthorized charges if reported within 30-60 days & even if you are late your liability is limited ! ✨🇺🇸✨🙏🏼✨
Yeah if the Lottery Board can verify if a lottery winner, was the person whom actually purchased the ticket and didn't just pick it out of the trash bin, then the banks are just being lazy.
@@MyRegardsToTheDodo Cameras cost money but theft and employee’s who are in on it cost far far more than a investment in inventory control ! Yes some stores have shell cameras like Ross used to but these days it’s not a option it’s the cost of doing business if you want to stay in business !
@@MyRegardsToTheDodo actually they don't have dummy cameras & they don't cost a lot of money. Sure you may on a rare occasion find a mom & pop type small antique shop that may not actually have a camera but even that's rare because they are so cheap. You can install a Nest camera & the cost to have cloud storage cost like $70 a year. Also, this was a Timberland store, not some fly by night cheap store in a rundown strip mall. They will in fact have a camera & it will be VERY high quality. Timberland is one of the biggest fashion brands brands in the world so they are going to protect their stores & watch the cashiers.
For a period of time I lost the ability to write. At the voting station here in BH, the voting supervisor said...no problem just put any mark on the paper and legally that is your signature. They then showed me to a machine where you could vote even if you could not fill in the little circles.....I was impressed.
I've worked the back end of Point of Sale systems for several years. It's well known to people in that space that chip cards that DON'T also require a PIN are not unbeatable, but the feeling is that our customers are either too stupid to remember a PIN, or too standoffish to enter it when asked to, and getting transactions processed was the higher priority for the execs.
Or, wanting to get done quickly. Run it as credit, and you're done. DONE. Run it as debit/automatic, and you get queried about the charge, asked if you want cash back (usually swapping between the touch screen and number pad, too), and sometimes more.
I recall seeing a discussion about un-aired Myth Busters episodes, and one had to do with how secure credit card chips were. The card companies got word they were making this episode, had a big meeting with the stars, producers, network, card companies, and all their respective attorneys, and it was shut down. The show runners commented on how surprised they were at the number of "issues" the chips had that could be taken advantage of.
Regarding signatures: In their terms of service with retailers, credit & debit card issuers often require that the card have a signature on it for the retailer to accept it. So it's not out of line or silly for a waiter or sales clerk to point out that you don't have a signature on your card. Also, while it's true a thief can copy the signature on your card, if you don't sign then the thief can just sign your name in his handwriting.
Common mistake is considering the signature on the back of the card to serve authentication purposes (pattern to compare against). No, it's merely your agreement to the contract under which the card was issued to you, making it a valid card. There is no requirement for the signature you put at the time of the purchase to agree with the one on the card - as long as both are your personal signatures, legally everything is in the clear. If you sign while using someone else's card, you're committing a fraud, but the appearance of the signature doesn't mean shit, only the fact you're not the authorized user of this card, which cannot be verified by the cashier.
Same with checks, I had someone Break into my grandmother's house, steal a book of checks, and print self printed checks with slight variations, and use their or a false ID to run 5 checks with a average $500 apiece, I talked to a store manager who told me they do not accept such large amounts on checks on your first time there. CERTIGY got my affidavits of forgery, and still left the checks on my credit report for 7 years.
They can do that anyway, and can probably get close enough. Your argument is invalid. Ask for ID if there is no signature, not that difficult now, is it.
@@DVankeuren They can also demand my diving club license or that I dance salsa in the middle of the store, and they can refuse the sale because they don't like my hat. Nothing of that is lawful, but they *can* do it.
My primary debit card has a chip! I use it online a good bit! I also have used it to make POS purchases where I was forced to swipe it. I left BOA many years ago!
I'm in The Netherlands. I don't think I've ever used the magnetic strip swiping on a bank-issued card. I can't give you an exact measure, but it's probably 10 years ago that we stopped really using that. Even before that, we've always used exclusively debit cards with PIN (the Dutch verb for making a card payment is even "pin"). For the last 5 years or so, card payments have transitioned to contactless, requiring the NFC chip on the terminal to read the card, and only requiring a PIN for higher amounts. I only very rarely have to insert my card into the terminal, typically at dated cheap unmanned fuel stations (but even most of those support contactless payment now).
My roommate never left the state, but his card number did, ordered things the fraudsters shipped using his deceased grandmother's name to a state he nor she have ever been to. Nor any known relatives there. His bank was kind enough to work with him, got him a new card and fraud listed the charges. You get a 50/50 chance of a helpful financial institution in this matter.
If the un-authorized transactions were done as “card not present” or a physical swipe then what happened to you is not that unusual. What would be unusual is if the transactions were done using the EMV/chip, which is practically impossible to clone.
He only found out after his card was blocked, the bank was small enough they knew him by name, but didn't have his current phone number to call him, and by that time he was only answering numbers he knew
@@Stache987 Depends on how obvious the fraud is. I used to work in the fraud department for a credit card company. I took a call from a guy who swiped his card at the gas pump. Walked in the store and attempted to buy some food but was declined. Between the time he did the first swipe and the 2nd, the card was used to max out his credit limit in a different state over 200 miles away. I shut the card down and issued the credit without anything else needed from the customer. Is it possible the guy duplicated his own card and gave it to someone else then called them right after he made his first purchase so they could max it out? Yes but I had no way to prove that so I had no choice but to take care of them. Sadly there are way too many people who try and screw over the company that they chose to do business with that when actual fraud happens and it is not painfully obvious banks may not believe you.
for many decades BofA has proven to be hostile to its customers; hearing "you must prove your innocence" is their default attitude. i briefly had an account with them, at the time they tried to tell me i was signed up for some program where they "match" the "change" on a purchase with no way to opt out. eg: buy something for $3.10, the "change" (despite being only eligible for digital transactions) would be 90 cents. they would then "match" that 90 cents by "doubling" it as a deposit into your account. but they would take that 90 cents FROM you to give it back to your savings accnt. [yes its goofy, no its not change, no they're not matching anything]. it made no sense other than trying to tag you with Overdraft fees for their benefit. i closed the account the same day.
I had to update my signature to vote. It was flagged by the attendant. My signature has changed in 25 years since I first registered. It was a pain in the butt to get it changed.
Those days are LONG GONE. they steal your info now And they make another card. So the card they use has their name on it with YOUR info. The only way the "check ID" thing works if if they stole your card. That's not what happened here. They got his card number and cloned a card.
I love it!! every time a cop gives me a ticket I sign it with a straight line and they always say "use your legal signature" and I say " that is my legal signature prove it isn't!!!"
My friend writes "Ask for ID" in the signature section on his credit card and almost never gets asked for ID. I never even looked when I worked retail. Employees making minimum wage can't be bothered.
The big wave of CC/Debit card fraud at the moment is a $9.99 charge for an audible acct…..if it’s on your bank statement and you don’t have an audible account, get a new card ASAP
I’ve been able to read chips and cards since the 90s. I can even write to them. I know manufacturers of these devices have been sued as well as the customers who purchased them since they became available. These types of cards are used for many different things not just bank cards. Turns out the suing people for owning this technology is illegal. But it has put a damper on the availability of this technology because of the litigious nature of banks. I will admit The device is in storage and I’ve never used it beyond the curiosity when it first came out. It was part of my computer case actually. And no I have not broken into credit cards. I have no reason to. But the technology is out there and has been out for 25 years
Smart Card readers and programmers are available, and have been, to anyone who wants to buy them. DTV, years ago, sued people who bought programmers, due to the stupidity of people who bought them from hacking sites and posted comments about their illegal hacking on forums that are still online today. When a large group of stupid criminals post about their illegal activities, other legitimate users of the technology are hurt.
@@neilkurzman4907 the chip itself never was the secure part. Its publicly available hardware designed to be communicated with via publicly available hardware (the readers are litterally available for purchase by anyone for any "business"). The software on the chip is the "secure" part since the reader is only a proxy between you and your bank which is what verifies the card is legit, and frankly then its only "secure" when using something akin to 2FA. Hence why its chip and pin, not chip and signature, without the pin all you need to do is clone the chip, which is with the right gear really simple, as your not decrypting the software, your copying it, encryption and all. And secure is a bit deceptive, it's a scale, something is only as secure to a set level, in the aim of making it require more effort to breach than the reward is worth. It amazes me the US allows you to sign for stuff still, that's not been accepted practice in the UK in well over 10 years, likely nearer 20. Here you have contractless payment (upto a set maximum), and chip&pin only, and even occasionally a contact less payment will automatically be declined as a security measure to make you use your chip & pin to ensure the care hasn't been stolen.
I used to work for the IRS many years ago. An organization regularly signed the Qtrly form with a legal phrase that translates to "As has been done before". The IRS changed their recognition system, One clerk got a form signed with that phrase, which did not meet the new protocol. It went from area management to the criminal investigations department. Word was they found a 25 year long fraud scheme using that form , with the now invalid signature on it to proceed.
Bank of America omg, use to have an account with them. When I opened an account about 4 yrs ago, I received my chip debit card. Two months later I noticed on my online account that it was being used, immediately went to the bank and thankfully they took care of it. The banker I spoke to when I asked how can it be used at a ATM from across the state said oh there are ways for these people to do this. Thankfully it was not huge amounts but when it happened again a year later with a new card I just closed the account afterwards. I am with Huntington now as so far no problems
Not had a BofA account, mainly because of what happened several years back. My friend deposited a $600 pay check and it was put on hold for 3 weeks due to "suspicious activity." Turned out that was the weeks when BofA was actually insolvent and didn't say anything, and stole money from deposit holders to run a short term ponzi scheme until their books balanced a few weeks later. The SEC caught on and fined them.
One of my customers told me that their processor would cover any fraudulent purchases if made through a chip reader but fraudulent swipe transactions would be on them.
I’ve already had a card issued to me whose electronic elements were duplicated on another card. While this was a card used for clocking in at work, the technology is the same. A one in a zillion chance is still a chance - just as when someone wins the lottery.
Here in Finland; Bank/Credit cards with a chip - there is only a white strip instead of magnetic strip, so chip + pin combo is only way (except contactless option). I'm not sure if that strip even contains any information. Payments under 50 euros can be done contactless, but payment terminals randomly, quite often, denies contactless transaction and requires chip+pin combo to be used. ATMs with both slots (chip & magnetic strip) simply throws out new chip cards from magnetic strip reader and asks to put in to chip reader. Chip is harder, almost impossible (but with right tools it can be done), to copy than magnetic strip, but all security measures really goes down to drain if authentication is done by signature. Contactless payments has their problems, there has been cases when someone with payment terminal on public transport has done fraudulent contactless payments.
Back in 2015 there was a story of a French credit card fraud ring that was rewiring chip cards to bypass PIN authentication, and that this had been going on since at least 2011 (Wired: "X-Ray Scans Expose an Ingenious Chip-and-Pin Card Hack"). Chip cards are much harder than mag stripe cards to skim, but it's definitely possible and security flaws that enable this were also written off as impossible back then. The only way to keep your card safe is to use Apple or Google Pay through your phone since that uses a unique token for each transaction so your card number is never exposed in the first place. Unfortunately that wouldn't work in this situation, as it seems that the payment terminal or processor was compromised of the place where he payed the bill. It could be an employee that was behind it as well, but that has a much higher chance of being caught so I doubt that's what happened.
@@918_xDx That's legit actually... if the terminal/gateway/processor/issuer is down when you try to use your card, but you REALLY want to buy something with it, you might allow that "offline/keyed" transaction. The merchant SHOULD be calling the bank to get a voice authorization, however, as "force" transactions without them can be rejected outright at clearing time. There's nothing wrong with the handwritten thing, since you're allowed to "store" the card number for the life of a transaction... which includes waiting for the connection to be fixed. Key part is disposing of the card number properly, and storing it securely while you wait for the connection to come online. Now, the merchant is going to pay more for interchange because it is a more "risky" way of doing a transaction.
Don't omit details! The hack of 40 STOLEN cards is not the same as cloning the cards. The stolen cards had their chips removed, an additional chip was soldered to the removed chip, and the pair of chips were mounted to another card. The added chip would send a fake signal indicating that the PIN was correct, thereby allowing the transaction. This is not something of concern unless you have lost a card and not reported it.
I had AMTRAK almost decline my card at the window because I wrote "See ID" on the signature strip. They too claimed that that isn't a signature. After a long discussion they finally agreed to accept it.
We older folks remember when an ID was required for each CC purchase, and they would compare your signature on the card with the one on the receipt. Sometimes when my number gets stolen I wonder if there's someone at the bank that is giving out the info for money.
You wrote, "Sometimes when my number gets stolen I wonder if there's someone at the bank that is giving out the info for money." Does "sometimes" indicate multiple occurrences of identity theft? In the days when all credit card transactions were on paper, it was common to compare the signatures on the card with the signature on the receipt and on the driver's license.
Steve - Many years ago I was using a card at a department store in Florida back before PINs, Chips, RFID, etc. The clerk noticed my card was unsigned after I signed the slip, and asked me to sign it. I did. She then carefully compared the signature on the card to that on the slip I signed. When I said "of course they are going to match" she said "sir, we have to check the signature on every credit card sale.".
'The inventors of "foolproof" systems, underestimate the Ingenuinty of the fools.' Nothing is unbreakable. Pins can be read. Signatures can be forged. Chips copied or dual printed and accidentally handed out to two customers.
Chips cannot be duplicated or 'dual printed'. Each one has a unique asymmetric certificate. Multiple chip IDs can be tied to the same account, but the audit trail would show unique PKI exchanges and it would be clear that they were different chips.... if the bank bothers and didn't just assume the customer was lying...
@@jacklewis100 you are simply wrong that a chip can’t be duplicated. There are mechanisms that should soon make it clear that it has been duplicate if 2 parties are trying to use separate cards with the same certificate, but I am not comfortable broadcasting the details involved in securing financial transactions or circumventing those security measures.
They sent two card? Did he ask for two? This sounds like more of BOA's shady practices. My signature is almost completely illegible. The only letters that are recognizable are the J and the K. I haven't signed the back of my credit or debit cards in 25 years.
Either the first one never arrived and he asked for a replacement, or something really shady went on where someone pretended to be him asked for a replacement and swiped it. I am guessing someone swiped the first one somewhere along the mail path.
In the UK we had chip/pin for years before the US. We have had all these arguements. It turns out EVERY transaction is recorded on the chip and can be recovered to answer definitively if that actual card was used.
Same in Canada. Last time my card was comprimised was in the US when I had to swipe/sign. My wife tapped her card at a Trader Joes in LA in 2017 and the clerk had a shocked look when it worked...
Lmfao but LOVING the thought of using a line as my signature. I recently "had" to sign a card, I needed as second proof of ID at a standardized test center. Moving forward... you rock
@@larrybe2900 Yep, most certainly. It has helped reduce fraud on physical cards but it still happens. I personally would not use an atm or a card reader at a business that is not chip card (EMV) compliant. Chips are not foolproof but its still your best option.
Woodbury Commons in Harrimon NY is a large area of outlet stores that is known for clothing and some fraud that takes place. These buildings are ok in size but you don't want to be there on the weekends and parking is a nightmare.
Here on Finland most places have contactless pay for up to 50€, and even that sometimes prompts you to insert the card to the chip reader and input your pin. And all purchases over 50€ are always chip + pin. Signature was only valid back in the days of embossed cards that needed to go through the whatchamacallit roller thing with paper. So probably 20 years ago... And even the magstripe days in between required pin number.
On the railway in the UK, at one time they didn't carry a roller machine on the train, they would use the back of a teaspoon to rub the slip over the card.
It stuns me how lax CC security is in the United States, then I remember that banks over there are basically immune from liability over fraud. Chip and Pin became the defacto standard in the early 2000s, there's no excuse for not using it when it improves security so much.
If you're referring to Europe, don't think it's any better there. Not only do most people now use direct debit cards (money vanishes from your account immediately) but often you don't even have to enter a pin number, instead just passing the card over the reader is enough. The banks seem entirely immune from blame in any fraud claim. Not only that but they often fail to flag any potentially fraudulent behavior. There have been many cases where people's life savings have disappeared even if the card has never left the holder's house. In some cases pensioners have lost $300,000 and more. The way it works is the scammer duplicates your card somehow (there are many ways to do this) and then buys thousands of scratch cards because the individual transaction value is small. They don't care if they only win 10% of the time - the payouts are in cash. So an old dear who has never gambled in her life suddenly finds zero money in her accounts and thousands of scratch card payments and the bank has done nothing to A) warn her B) stop the obvious fraud going on and C) blindly states she must have suddenly taken up gambling and absolutely refuses to return any money. The only solution to this is to have the minimal amount of money in the debit account so you don't lose too much.
@@mb-3faze In the USA you have to enter a pin on a debit card on most terminals. And who keeps $300,000 in their checking account? That by itself is beyond crazy...
@@redbaron6805 That used to be the case in Europe, so expect to see contact-less payments become the norm in the US (just like Apple Pay). However, even with the pin entry requirement it's pretty easy to get someone's pin by following them around. In fact I heard it is part of a police recruit's training to be assigned an unsuspecting old person shopper and to have obtained their pin number by the end of the day. You are right, of course, leaving all your wealth in one account with easy access is daft but my point is, with all the computer algorithms available to the banks, they could have A) warned the vulnerable individual and B) simply stopped payment authorization when thousands of scratchcard purchases were made. The bank never apologized and never returned any money - they made thousands in transaction fees.
I had a similar experience with my previous bank in 2019. I had a card without a chip that had to have been skimmed at a pinpad since I only ever use a paypal card linked to my bank account online. The transactions were done a 2hr drive away after I had used the same card at the liquor store across the street 30min before their first transaction. My claim was denied twice "because the pin number was used". I pulled my funds and moved over to a credit union.
Idk why our picture aren't on our credit cards. It wouldn't be hard to do. Fact is, credit card companies make so much money, cc fraud isn't their top priority
And exactly how is that going to happen? To be totally safe, the issuing card company would have to take the picture. Having it sent through the mail is open to fraud.
I feel like you are underestimating the difficulty. It's not like you can just ask a customer to send in a digital photo. If you want the photograph to serve the purpose of identifying the individual, then there needs to be verification processes. These typically have to be done in person (as I must do for my driver's license, and my employee ID).
I know BOA did in the 90's when I had an account with them, took the picture right when I opened the account in house. It didn't last. How many times a day do you hand your card over to a cashier nowadays? Walmart, gas stations, retailers, any walk in fast food, they all have those do it yourself readers so the cashiers never have to handle it. A few mom/pop shops, drive thru, restaurants, and such are the odd ones out where you hand over a card and thats just long enough to run and return, they don't train for security and even if they did do you think that part time high schooler is worried about cc fraud.
I had freaking *never* had my bank card compromised until I had to get the new chip card, then no lie it was stolen twice in as many months. Thankfully my bank was awesome about it but man it really made it had to trust those cards.
Never had an issue with CHIP cards & they have been widespread use in Canada since 2010. I had to replace cards that were flagged due to mag stripe skimming before twice. Fast Forward to 2017 and we took a road trip to the US and I had to use the mag stripe at a number of places... my card was skimmed in Las Vegas of all places... an hour on the phone when we were in LA was ironic. The skimmers used my card to buy passes to Disneyland Paris (formerly EuroDisney). We had just bought passes to Disneyland & California Adventure 🤦♂️🤦♂️. The other funny thing on that trip was the clerk at Trader Joes told my wife that the tap feature on his till didn't work ... when it beeped and said approved the look of shock 🤣🤣
@@DVankeuren "compromised" not "stolen." IE somehow my card, which I had possession of, was used two different times, fraudulently. I understand correlation does not equal causation, but it's hard not to see how for 5 years prior to the mandatory chip upgrade, I never once had a fraud issue, then within 2 months of the upgrade the issue happened twice, as a bad optics for the chip being "better" and "foolproof."
@@realalbertan I had a coworker who's card was skimmed at a local gas station, it ended up being a giant ring that got taken down in the long run. It's crazy what criminals can pull off when they put their mind to it. As for the tap to pay, that happens all. the. time. 🤣 It's embarrassing how undertrained on implementation and chaotic our payment infrastructure is here. You can walk into two stores with the same exact pin pad and they function entirely differently. Having worked retail years ago, it was maddening, you got use to your system then you'd go shop somewhere and do the process wrong because they had an entirely different system.
I got my first chip card when my previous card was compromised by the Wendy's data breach. Given how much of an issue card skimming was, the chip is an improvement but by no means foolproof.
There are actually two cvv numbers. There's one cvv that's only on the magstripe, and the cvv2 is on the back of the card. In the case of a chip failure and the card is swiped instead, it would be possible to require the cvv2 to be verified in addition to the cvv.
Throwing a chip card in a microwave on high for about 8 seconds will kill the chip. Most card readers will default to the magnetic stripe on a card once the chip has malfunctioned 3 times.
Actually, the "chip cards" are as easy to counterfeit as the non-chip cards. Here in my area, there are no less than 3 entities that have equipment that can read and write to the chips. The state prison system in PA uses this technology in their visiting areas (cash is not allowed in the prisons) for food dispensers. These dispensers can read the chip to determine if sufficient payment is available, and then write to the chip to establish the new balance after the card is used to make a purchase. The city of Bethlehem, PA uses this technology for payment for parking meters. Cards are issued by the parking authority with a n initial balance on them. They are then used in parking meters that once again are capable of reading and writing to the chips. The list goes on. This technology readily available to anybody that services any sort of vending machine. It can be (and probably is) used to duplicate credit and debit cards. All that is needed is a bunch of blanks and access to this technology. Anything that is said to be foolproof will generally result in the creation of a better fool.
I'm not sure if they are the same technology or not, but I've noticed that the "chip" in the debit card looks identical to sim cards. If it is the same technology, then you can add cell phone companies to the list. And I've seen people easily make custom sim cards.
Here in Canada, swipe, chip, or just tap it! (No signature, no pin!) That is usually limited to $100 per transaction on the tap. Eventually, the card asks for your pin to verify it is your card! (It could be 50 purchases down the road, I am not sure)
If someone clones your card, you have to pay those low $ tap charges. I asked my bank to disable the tap feature. Nope, they can't. Or won't. Keep your card inside a metal sleeve so they can't be cloned.
I used to love the tap cards back in Canada. If you only had one rfid card in your wallet, you didn't need to take the card out, just hold the whole wallet up to the reader! Was really convenient, if somewhat inherently insecure. I don't remember anything about tap purchases not having fraud protection - pretty sure that's not accurate. Also, if you want to disable the "tap" feature of your card, make a cut about 1/4" in from the inside of the card on the opposite side as the chip contacts - there's an antenna loop that runs around the outside edge of the card, and if you cut it, the card simply won't work for tap anymore. Usually if you hold the card up to a bright light, you can see the antenna loop around the edge of the card
@@gorak9000 Only problem holding wallet up to machine is if you have a couple different credit cards with tap feature! I guess whichever card tapped first would be charged?
@@unclemarksdiyauto I said "IF you have only one rfid card in your wallet". If you have more than one rfid card that operates on the same frequency, they essentially interfere with each other and nothing works.
The regulations are such: between the merchant and the FI, the one with lesser technology is on the hook: if the bank’s card has a chip but the merchant still requires magnetic strip swiping, the merchant is liable to the FI. If both merchant and FI are equal technology or the FI is using weaker technology, the FI is on the hook. FIs are required to provide provisional credit during the investigation.
It baffles me how bad security is in the US regarding money... checks, signatures, and non-chip payments are unthinkable in Norway. Another thing is that I would under NO circumstances give my card away when paying for a meal... How is that still a thing over there?? I have no idea how the fraud rates compare, but I imagine it to be sooooo much easier...
Over here we compromise the reader network at some retailer, collect data for a month, have a computer determine the algorithm of the chips, and make duplicate chip cards.
The signature thing is DUMB, they don't even check to see WHAT you sign. I've used my mom's card before, and I'm a man and signed my own name, was never questioned.
I used to work at a gas station. It is VERY common for people to simply scratch a line across the signature screen. Signatures are poor security unless you actually use them properly.
This is one reason why I'm glad I live in Canada... Our Bank Debit/ATM Cards require a PIN code when you use the Magnetic Swipe or Chip Slot...The ONLY thing that doesn't need the PIN is the RFID Tap BUT (at least for TD Canada Trust) TAP Transactions are limited to $100.00 Maximum and can NOT get Cash Back, if you want Cash Back or the Transaction is $100.01 or higher and then you must use the Chip or Mag Stripe and PIN... I'm not familiar with the Security Measures on Canadian Credit Cards (I refuse to use them)...
If he was working at a hospital at the time of the purchases, there would be various ways to prove he wasn't at the store. Colleagues, patients, CCTV footage, reports he wrote, sign-in information.
I had a bank tell me my card had been compromised, so they were sending me a new one overnight FedEx. The next day, before I received the new card via FedEx, I received another fraud alert call saying the new card was compromised. I hadn't even seen it yet, and it arrived in sealed FedEx envelope.
Working in grocery pickup during the time of Covid, it was decided that we wouldn't make customers sign for their order. They still could if they insisted, but since its an electronic device that is in all our hands and gets passed around constantly and can't really be disinfected it made a lot of sense germ wise not to pass it through even more hands. The device itself still insists on a signature though so we would sign for the customers. What no one had told me though was that the customer emailed receipt includes 'their' signature. I'd just been signing by drawing the :p emoji for months. Till someone complained and I found out, after that we standardized our signatures for customers were just a W after that. To indicate that wally world had signed for the order.
FedEx Drivers use CVV or some such initials to indicate a delivery that requires signature confirmation but driver would not risk the increased public exposure due to Covid.
When I was a cashier, at the time cashiers did the swiping of the card. I always looked at the signature space and did a rudimentary comparison. I had a gentleman who hadn't signed the card. When I mentioned that he hadn't signed it, he explained that he never signs cards because nobody knows his signature and so they couldn't replicate it. He couldn't understand that if someone found his unsigned card they could sign it and any comparison would be close. Had another person who printed the name on the signature line. I explained that he had to sign the receipt. He then signed his OWN name!
And that is a wrong assumption to make as someone could easily get a signature close enough to pass. You could have just asked for his ID and not subject him to your misinformation.
Ironically, their computer algorithm identifying fraud was smarter than the manual review.
I think the algorithm cared more then the reviewer.
@@mattstorm360 Cause it did. The algorithm didn't care, it was an unthinking piece of code doing what it was designed to do.
The reviewer actively wanted not to find fraud, because finding fraud was bad for hte company's image and would cost the company money. Which is worse than not caring at all.
The algorithm had transaction history from every card the individual has ever been issued and makes a determination designed to flag any probable fraud.
The person is given a limited amount of data to make a decision based on and bank policy designed to be in compliance with a loose interpretation of the regulations and minimize cost to the bank.
@@MelissiaBlackheart Reviewing and investigating takes time... time is money... and no alphabet agency or group is making them investigate... so don't need to...
I remember in the 90's I went into Manhattan, about 100 miles away exactly from home. AMEX must have had algorithms then too, my card was instantly declined, after the merchant not telling me he tried it four times, which ticked me off - I could get it another time or on another card, he asked if I wanted to talk to AMEX, I agreed, when they said they were concerned I wasn't near home, and four attempts were made using the card, I said issue me a new card. I didn't trust that merchant anymore. Come to find out, the replacement card counter was on a lower level of the hotel i was staying at. Which about the same year, I went to a small truckstop for gas close to work, they wanted to xerox my card and license, I said no damn way, paid cash and left with other items I wanted left on the counter.. I should have spilled the soda.
I should add, I'm surprised that my card doesn't get alerts for one of the two adjacent states each about 100 miles away, and I tried to put a travel alert when I knew I was going to mom's, they only let me designate one state, but a lot of shopping in the area is across another state line KCMO has very little decent shopping, without going up by the airport, but Johnson County in Kansas has tons. So I have to tell them I'm going to Kansas, and hope for the best shopping near mom's
Having been a banker for 35+ years, all I can say is that I guess some of my competitors use a head in the sand approach to fraud security.
Sure sounds like it, based on the comments here.
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- Douglas Adams
It's not a mistake, it's feature
Foolproof and stupid proof are two different things.
Every time I see a stolen credit card story on my local news it happened at Target.
And I was like #42
Thanks for all the fish! (Ya nailed it)
that signature thing reminds me of this case where the guy would always sign with a pen*s doodle. At some point it reached a court where the court upheld that the doodle was indeed a valid form of signature.
Trusting in signatures is silly.
“the use of any name, including a trade or assumed name, or by a word, mark, or symbol executed or adopted by a person with present intention to authenticate a writing.”
So yes even X marks the spot is a valid signature, so long as you made it.
As a retailer, it’s amazing how messed up credit card processing really is.
We've been chip and pin in the great white north here for ages now. I remember heading down to the US once and being utterly confused when they had me insert my card, but then sign the receipt instead of entering my pin. I have no ability to comprehend which chip and pin isn't ubiquitous in the US.
A few years later I wowed cashiers in silicon valley every time I tapped my card to pay for something. Each time they freaked, saying it won't work, I would do it anyways. It would beep, the charge would complete, and the cashier was left dumbfounded. I found it so ironic that tapping to pay was a novel thing in silicon valley, yet we'd had it for years already.
Of course now with Apple and Samsung pay it's a common thing.
It is truly shocking.
It's not so bad if one understands the whole process from kit to kaboodle. But there are a lot of technicalities that need to happen behind the scenes to make one simple thing happen in front of the cash register.
@@repatch43 Pins aren't that great either. Mark Rober did a video where he just used the thermal imaging cameras.
@@crissd8283 Hahaha, right, stealing the card and then scribbling on a piece of paper (nobody actually CHECKS whether the signature is correct) vs setting up a thermal camera, and THEN stealing the card and using it? Come on. Ya, chip and pin isn't perfect, but holy hell is it better than signatures, which are utterly useless. Physical card fraud basically disappeared overnight when we went full chip and pin (of course the fraud moved to online transactions, but that's another story).
Note also that accepting chip and pin is CHEAPER for merchants since their liability is lessened (the banks charge them less for chip and pin transactions vs signature verified because of the vast reduction in fraud).
It's honestly win, win, win, win, win. What possible reason would you, or anyone have, against chip and pin?
Every interaction with BofA since 1975 has been terrible for me. I only did business because they bought my local bank. Closed my account as quickly as I could. They made me jump through hoops, holding funds, to do that too. Worst bank I know of for the account holders.
Exactly right! BofA is second only to Citibank in poor customer treatment.
I 2nd that. I just posted my own story with BoA that had to do with signing me for a credit card without my knowledge or permission. And then the subsequent issues with overdraft protection and late fees on a credit card that I didn't know existed.
Let me guess, you started with Standard Federal, then progressed to LaSalle Bank and then BoA??
its worse for thos who sell fire arms.
FYI, they wouldn't let the Mythbusters attempt to bypass the RFID technology for fear they would show how easy it is to replicate.
The tap and go cards are the way to go, so much easier, nothing to enter, most of the time.
@@Duncan_Campbell Tap and go are the ones they wouldn't allow them to test.
@@Dysan72 yeah, but they are still nice to use.
There's plenty of blackhat/defcon (among other's published research) to show how easy it is (some even how you could do it) but they don't have as big of an audience like mythbusters
Tap and go cards can be read while in your purse or wallet. Then replicated and used. I know a guy that was charged for bus ride that never happened. He got the refund after some hassle with the bus company. So do I trust Tap and Go to be 100% safe? NO.
A very similar thing happened to me with USAA (first part was exactly the same, but the resolution was different). I spent an immense amount of time on the phone with USAA trying to get their representatives to do the right thing. I filed a few CFPB complaints and got increasingly boneheaded responses. Once I felt like I had enough information from USAA's representatives, I put together a binder with everything I had, looked up the relevant laws, and put those excerpts in my binder as well. I then had my courthouse do a business search to find USAA's serving address and filed a case in small claims. In the forms, I very concisely stated what I had and why I believed USAA owed me money. Nothing happened for months, until about 2 weeks before my court date, the money magically appeared as a credit on my card statement. I was later contacted by a USAA lawyer with the request that I sign papers to drop the case, which I did -- they kindly submitted them for me .
TL;DR: Once a bank decides you're in the wrong, gather the information you need, and file in court. Or I suppose contact the news like that person did.
Sometimes you don't even need to file. The prospect of litigation is enough motivation. Glad it worker out well for you.
With respect, usually small claims courts allow you to recoup the cost of filing. Also, if you incurred costs compiling the evidence, such as postage, copying costs*, etc, you may be reimbursed for those as well.
Usually, small claims court will tell the defendant that they are to repay the money into the court and not directly to the claimant.
*sometimes a business will charge for a copy of their video.
@@alanmcentee9457 That's a great point! In California, the $35 fee was not worth going to court over. In Texas, the $120 fee might be. Hopefully I never have to do this again, but if I do, that would change the equation for me.
I hope you settled for more then just the mistake. Your time is money. They should be billed just like they would bill us or make us pay for court and legal fee's
@@nomore-constipation I was just happy to get my money back. Most of the time I spent was actually on the phone with the bank, not working on small claims stuff, so although I kept track it didn't seem worth it. Additionally, the kinds of damages that California small claims court was OK with awarding seemed somewhat more limited than what I've typically heard of in full-blown civil court, from what I remember from the court's forms and educational documentation.
I’ve had the same signature argument with my Dad. He’s adamant that it must be my full legal name, even though his isn’t. I try and tell him I could write an “X”, and legally it must be accepted, as my signature is whatever the hell I want it to be.
Yup!
Literally had the same argument with my mom, but she just couldn't wrap her head around "signature" not being defined as "your full name written in cursive". I said you could draw any doodle you want and it would be valid, like a bird or a cat face, but she was adamant it had to be your name.
I usually use my middle name and that is how people know me. That is how I sign my name. When I bought me house I got a call from the title company that I needed to come back in and resign all the documents with my full name. I explained how I am known by my middle name but they insisted. I went in and resigned about a dozen pages then told them that that would be $2.50 /pg. They said no so I gathered all the documents in front of me and left. When they complained that I couldn't take the documents I told them they should have thought of that before they insisted that they wouldn't file the documents. I already had signed copies of the documents and witnesses that I had signed them.
I got a visit from the police the next day. I explained the problem. He told me I had to return the documents and I told him I didn't have to. A few days later I got a check for $100.
Back in the late 50s my mum worked at a store in a small town in northern BC, Canada, sort of a hardware/supply/clothing/grocery et cetera place that served not only the town but the much wider rural area around it (think mainly logging and ranching). As back in those days banks were open 10 am to 3 pm Monday to Friday this store offered a check cashing service to guys making it in to town from wherever they worked to get their money after bankers' hours and buy stuff or just hit the beer halls. Mum remembered how a lot of these guys were illiterate and would endorse their pay checks with an "X". She would witness it by writing "His mark" and signing to that effect. Simpler times, I guess, but that was normal.
Same thing for athletes having to sign paperwork right after the event. My dad wrestled back in the 70's and was too tired after the match to sign his full name, so he just slashed X on the signature line. Nowadays, he doodles a bunny instead if he wants to be creative.
After a conversation with a bank employee on this subject several years ago I was told "see ID" was a valid signature. I now routinely show my drivers license when using my cards. Works great!
How many people actually ask?
I never bother signing my cards, and from experience people never glance at the back let alone the name field. Does it look credit card shaped? Into the machine it goes.
@@andyruse4670 yup, none of my cards are signed and no one ever asks. I also regularly use my MILs card to buy cigarettes for her and I'm never asked for my ID for any of it 🤣
Not In Australia. Banks said that was not valid here. The handful of customers that had see I'd as their signature got annoyed when I refused to accept it. Thankfully we have had tap and go and tap and pin these days.
I always write "Ask for ID" 9/10 times they don't ask
I wrote Check ID on my cards for years, but only ever had a couple people ask to see the ID. These days, the card reader is on our side and the clerk never touches the card, so how can they compare a signature? I routinely sign with "It was Me!" when asked.Nobody has ever said anything about it.
The banks under estimate the quality of fools we can build.
Years ago we had an attorney who treated signing his name as a formal ceremony. He spent a few moments centering the paper squarely in front of him, momentarily placing his hands palm down on the desk each side of the paper, picks up the pen which had been placed parallel to the item to be signed, fully extends his arm holding the pen outright and then brings it into signing position. He then signed his name, adding his customary flourishes to the capital letters, including his middle initial, and a partial underline of his name extending from the end of the last letter of his last name. Then the pen was placed back on the desk, parallel to the sheet and he would await the next item to be signed.
His signature was a work of art and so precise it would be hard to find a difference from one document to another.
It would take him forever to sign all the papers required at the two property closings he conducted for us. My wife and I were young and didn't have a lot of money and were glad that he was a friend of my parents and wasn't charging us by the hour. But we did love to watch him sign things.
and in comparison, my signature happens so quickly, another person would have to practice for years to duplicate it.
I’m getting major Death Note vibes here. 😅
I'm picturing Jimmy Fallon signing his "Thank you" notes every Friday night. It's one thing to do it for comedy. It's entirely another if you're being serious about it.
Part of that is for legal reasons, especially if that attorney is/was also a notary. Having a recognizable, easily matchable signature to the attorney's/notary's official signature helps to validate any document that they sign (though the Notary's seal on the document is a much more official validation to the document, but still requires the signature).
2 Thessalonians 3:17 I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand, and this is a distinguishing mark in every letter; this is the way I write.
Anyone else remember writing "ask for ID" on the back of debit cards?
I did it as an experiment to see if cashiers actually read the back. I was only asked to show ID once until the card expired.
Yes! I haven’t done that in years. It was the first thing I did. Then after a few lost cards and never being asked for an ID I forgot.
I still write "check id" on mine... About the only times I ever get asked for ID is very large purchases (typically they glance at the pic/me and verify the name is the same) or age restricted stuff (seems like they don't even look and/or they see the 19xx year in my DOB).
@@buckeyenative1365
Yeah, most of them don't have a clue. If you don't sign the card, it means that they need to compare your signature with another ID like your drivers license. A lot of them will just not accept your card until you sign it. You tell them what that means and they'll just sit there, "No, you HAVE TO sign the card or I can't take it." When he calls his dumbass boss, he'll tell you the same thing. That's why I use the self-checkout. There's a lot fewer dipshits that I have to deal with.
@@Skank_and_Gutterboy If it's store policy that they can only accept cards when signed then the cashier or his boss can't do anything about it.
They say the cards are foolproof…and the Titanic was unsinkable.
Our money is counterfeit proofn etc.
@@abrahamlincoln9758 which country says that?
Its more a difficulty thing. Like the amount of effort to counterfeit a Australian note accurately probably would actually cost more then the face value most of the time.
Of course that’s assuming someone actually checks the security features at all before it gets to a bank to be detected automatically.
actually it was her sister ship that sank . the titanic was sunk by a torpedo in world war 2? as i recall.
@@abrahamlincoln9758 ones and fivers are the most counter fitted. as 99% of the retailors dont even check em an there are counter fit pens out there as well.
@@nathandean1687 Titanic sunk in 2007.
Couple of quick notes: About a month ago, I had some fraudulent charges show up on my debit card (not with BoA, BTW). I called, they froze the card and expedited me a new one. They also emailed me an affidavit that I filled out and faxed back to the bank stating that no, I hadn't eaten in three LA area restaurants that day and then ordered $100 of stuff from a well-known woman's clothing website. Within two days, they put the money back in the account.
On not signing the card: Back in my retail days (this was long enough ago that they signed the paper receipt), if someone hadn't signed a card, we asked for another form of ID. I had people say "I never sign the card because if you do that, they just have to learn to copy your signature". That overlooks the fact that if you don't sign the card, someone doesn't even have to do that. If you put something like "Ask for ID" on the signature panel, at least is stops someone from scribbling any damned thing in the panel and passing it off as your signature.
This I agree! I’ve been using “Check Id” for years now! However I just go hit for $60 from an online survey! I had completed the survey and they offer a free gift if I would just pay for shipping! The few dollars No problem cover that amount by card! Three days later found something online I needed so I went to purchase it but system came back saying card was “declined” check my account and found someone was trying to make a withdrawal right at that very moment! I call the bank immediately and requested that transaction to be stopped on my card blocked! I went into bank the next day to file paperwork for new card and to make sure everything was ok!!! Well no problem getting the new card but the bank decided to pay that fraudulent charge anyway! I asked that the money to be returned to me! They refuse and said as long as I was in contact with that business I had to pay no matter what! According to the bank they have an agreement with the credit card company that they will pay that bill (and in my case a fine!) even if disputed! And that bank is INDEPENDANT BANK they(the ahead of their fraud division) said they have a deal with Visa and MasterCard to pay those kind of bills) I told them fine you pay it I was not going to because I had contacted them(Independent bank)before the transaction was completed! They told me again too bad because I had contacted them and so I own it!!! Well my contact with the survey at The Homedepot suddenly was linked to a garbage fraudulent company in California which I never heard of) Again I explain to INDEPENDENT BANK that I was in contact with THE HOMEDEPOT SURVEY and not the third world fraudulent company from the THIRD WORLD STATE of CALIFORNIA! THE INDEPENDENT BANKS remain firm ! It didn’t matter that as a customer and a card holder from INDEPENDENT BANK nor did it matter that I asked for the transaction to be stopped BEFORE it was completed the INDEPENDENT BANK just choose to pay this fraudulent company even before anything was completed! The deal was the survey company (whom I now know wasn’t The Homedepot) was to send me a gift but instead of sending what I agree to they sent some stupid crap! Also, while and before I agreed to the shipping fee I was given the notice of satisfaction guaranteed or all of my money returned to me including shipping! Hence why I’m writing this today!!! This was a scam which the INDEPENDENT BANK has agree to “HELP” fraud “no matter the reason” THESE ARE INDEPENDENT BANK’S own words!!! Apparently The Homedepot was not involved with this it was all done by INDEPENDENT BANK and their involvement with the fraudulent credit card company called MASTERCARD and it’s doing!!!
SO INDEPENDENT BANK was your dealing with a fraudulent credit card company worth about $60 you allowed the credit card company steal from me??? Independent Bank just so you know I’ll be posting this everywhere, anyplace, to anyone, talking about money! Enjoy the your cheap friends and the free advertising!!!
I used to do essentially the same thing. I wrote "See ID"
Some card designs are so bad that the signature spot either doesn't take the signature or it just wipes off.
@@karlrovey I always sign the card, then place a piece of tape over it as cheap-o lamination.
@@richardbadour1714 Cost them money by filing in small claims court. If you've got valid proof anyway.
I once received an automatic replacement for my expired card. The problem was that it was somebody else’s card. I called what I thought was the customer support number, but I got only the message that “your card is now activated.” When I finally got a live person, she cancelled that card and sent me a new one. She seemed singularly unconcerned that there was probably a whole sequence of cards that had been sent to the wrong people. I’ve also had a replacement card stolen from my mailbox. These were all with BoA. They’ve always been good with me about removing fraudulent charges, though. It is not a 100% foolproof system.
Thanks Steve. We all need to cover up the pin pad when inputting the numbers. There are
cameras every where, especially the overhead cams.
Watch Mark Rober figure out your pin still.
It is bizarre that an accused has to prove their innocence
I worked at a shoe store over 10 years ago and our machines didn't have chip readers, just swipe or those carbon copies when the system was down. One day a couple came in and scooped up a ton of shoes. I went to swipe the card and when he signed the slip I noticed that the signature didn't match. I asked for ID and it wasn't the same guy. He was having a fit and demanded the manager. So I grab my manager and tell her that I'm certain the cards are stolen and we need to call the cops. What does she do? Engages with him, debates him about him losing weight (the ID was fairly new btw, no lost weight), about how much taller he looks (ID had the guy at 5 foot 8 inches and the guy in front of us was like 6 foot 3 inches) and SHE LET THEM WALK OUT WITH THE SHOES! Well, cops demand that we go in and identify the person and ask why we didn't check ID etc. I threw my manager under the bus. All the warning signs were there but she balked at actually doing the right thing and I couldn't stand by and not tell the truth. Nothing came of it but I knew that I couldn't count on her to make a rational decision from that point on in terms of fraud.
woah that sucks
Ahhh the first signs of the woke crowd she was.
Could probably get arrested for "thin shaming" in Canada. SMH
I once had a charge by a car sharing AP (I have never used) in Hong Kong the exact same time I was in Wal-Mart 1 mile from my home in Texas. I made purchase within 20 minutes of Hong Kong charge. I only have one card, 1 person, me, on card. So much grief... from their fraud department. I caught that charge within 24 hrs. Same individual then tried several thousand charge which was blocked as I was on my landline phone with fraud department.
And once again, there's a requirement to get the public interest (via social or traditional media) before you get a reasonable response from an institution. smh
I love your straight line and all your comments associated with it, bravo. Proud to be a “Neighbor “of yours and a fellow mitten resident.
This is EXACTLY what happened to me when I was with Wells Fargo. I saw a $75 charge from a gas station in Compton. Never been there. They refunded me, made it right. Couple years later, I see a charge for $312 for 2 concert tickets for some (K)rapper named Lil Wayne. This time they said you gave out the pin number, therefore legal transaction. I cancelled the card and subsequently my account at the bank.
I recently had my card replaced. I went shopping before I set up my new PIN. I told the cashier that I would be back. The manager spoke up and loudly told the cashier "Whenever someone forgets their PIN just hit the green button." And I was NEVER asked for a signature. Or ID.
Not surprised, I have always considered BOA to be a predatory bank anyway. Signatures: If you have ever worked at a polling place and see how different signatures have changed from the provided example, it's funny. Signatures from when people first started voting (provided as comparison by polling place) does not look the same as their signature at age 50.
Heck, I can see my signature change over the course of a day if I am doing anything manually strenuous that day.
SKANK of America is so bad, when the landlord was going on vacation they gave us each a deposit slip to take our cash to their branch, the bank refused our rent payments as we were not the named depositor, the landlord had to send her son put to collect the rents.
They also differ according to the surface they are on, the posture of the signer, and even the time of day. The biggest difference is when signing with a fingernail on a hand held tablet vs using a pen on a hard surface.
@@alanmcentee9457 touch screen signatures are a joke. That must exist due to some legal regulation.
B of A is awful. I cannot imagine why anyone uses them
if BofA actually believes nothing can beat their security then they are obviously going to fail big time. anything can be beat, anything.
@5:25 According to some card agreements, the signature on the card isn't about verification of your signature, but rather you acknowledging that you will abide by the terms of the credit card agreement.
This happened to my sister. When she demanded a copy of the signature it wasn’t even her name! It was a visa debit and her bank claimed she had entered her PIN. When she demanded the signature she discovered it was actually run as a credit card not as a debit and it was an inside job at the store. Someone had inserted a skimmer on the line and copied the visa number associated then made a fake Visa card with the information on the magnetic strip matching her visa and the name matching the person using its ID. She was able to fight it with this additional information and showed that she never used it without the PIN. The store pulled surveillance cameras and sure enough it was not her - it was some guy.
Skimmer reads the mag stripe and the data read is transferred to another card. Using the card with copied stripe, transactions are then processed with a signature. This has nothing to do with the secure chip on the card.
@@memyname1771 agreed but the techniques are still useable.
I was lucky when I got hit, kinda hard to spend $1100 on debit and 600 on credit in NY/NJ when you’re deployed to the Middle East 😂
Yeah those are always fun. I once had a card that the bank actually caught in real time spending money near my house(me), then in Topeka and Seattle, all within an hour of each other. Guess they cared back then.
The time my card was fraudulently used I had made an online purchase and a few hours later it was used in Russia. My bank actually called me and asked if the purchases were legitimate, including the one I had made.
I had a similar problem with BOA.
I was sitting at dinner when I received a text alert from BOA, that may card was suspected as being used.
The thieves dinged the card 8-10 times, the first attempts for a couple of dollars, then a $1200 charge for digital media, then a couple of other couple dollar charges, then another couple of digital media charges. All in all, almost $2,000.
BOA credited my account, then a month later pulled the funds back again. BOA claimed it was me, as they used my zip code. The IP address for the downloads was no where close to where I lived.
Time for a small claims court suit and a new bank
Debit cards are risky!
A while back when a bank emailed me that they were mailing a credit or debit card, for a couple of years I had several times it did not arrive. I would then call and have them resend it via UPS or Fedex. So then when I got the email notice I would proactively call and ask them not to send through regular mail, but that was not an option. I had to wait for it to get lost/stolen first before they would resend it via a more secure delivery.
6:02 - I had to do this repeatedly when I worked retail _(and have argued the point w/ retail workers who didn't understand...)._ It's not a crime to use someone else's card and you just sign you _own_ name _(don't "forge" the name of whoever the card belongs to)._ -- It's a contract and you're simply signing for the sale for the card holder. That's the system in place so they can _dispute_ it if it wasn't an approved transaction but people just got so weird about using their parent's/spouse's card and they always seemed to have the same fear that by signing their own name they were somehow doing something wrong as if signing a name that _wasn't_ theirs wasn't _actual_ fraud but rather legally preferable simply because it matched the name on the card...
Mostly I sign my mom's name so as not to have to argue with the person running the register.....
@@cliftonmcnalley8469 Yeah, they virtually never do an actual signature comparison so you're probably good either way.
Doesn’t those “ stores “ have security cameras, they do and the card charges are also time recorded so various cameras would have him on video and the bank knows this ! I think the fraud is from within the bank, I had a B of A account and I had issues with my account balance too often and I closed my business with them ! Also they are responsible for any unauthorized charges if reported within 30-60 days & even if you are late your liability is limited !
✨🇺🇸✨🙏🏼✨
Yeah if the Lottery Board can verify if a lottery winner, was the person whom actually purchased the ticket and didn't just pick it out of the trash bin, then the banks are just being lazy.
Cameras cost money, storing video also cost money. A lot of stores only have dummy cameras to avoid those costs.
@@MyRegardsToTheDodo Cameras cost money but theft and employee’s who are in on it cost far far more than a investment in inventory control ! Yes some stores have shell cameras like Ross used to but these days it’s not a option it’s the cost of doing business if you want to stay in business !
@@MyRegardsToTheDodo actually they don't have dummy cameras & they don't cost a lot of money. Sure you may on a rare occasion find a mom & pop type small antique shop that may not actually have a camera but even that's rare because they are so cheap. You can install a Nest camera & the cost to have cloud storage cost like $70 a year.
Also, this was a Timberland store, not some fly by night cheap store in a rundown strip mall. They will in fact have a camera & it will be VERY high quality. Timberland is one of the biggest fashion brands brands in the world so they are going to protect their stores & watch the cashiers.
Oof. B of A is more like B of S.
For a period of time I lost the ability to write. At the voting station here in BH, the voting supervisor said...no problem just put any mark on the paper and legally that is your signature. They then showed me to a machine where you could vote even if you could not fill in the little circles.....I was impressed.
I've worked the back end of Point of Sale systems for several years. It's well known to people in that space that chip cards that DON'T also require a PIN are not unbeatable, but the feeling is that our customers are either too stupid to remember a PIN, or too standoffish to enter it when asked to, and getting transactions processed was the higher priority for the execs.
Not a surprise, I had a feeling this would happen.
Or, wanting to get done quickly. Run it as credit, and you're done. DONE. Run it as debit/automatic, and you get queried about the charge, asked if you want cash back (usually swapping between the touch screen and number pad, too), and sometimes more.
Not to mention there've been demonstrated man-in-the-middle attacks against chip & pin, too.
@@MrZcar350 Sounds like a possible inside job. Apple & Samsung use finger print tech why not credit cards ?
I recall seeing a discussion about un-aired Myth Busters episodes, and one had to do with how secure credit card chips were. The card companies got word they were making this episode, had a big meeting with the stars, producers, network, card companies, and all their respective attorneys, and it was shut down. The show runners commented on how surprised they were at the number of "issues" the chips had that could be taken advantage of.
Regarding signatures: In their terms of service with retailers, credit & debit card issuers often require that the card have a signature on it for the retailer to accept it. So it's not out of line or silly for a waiter or sales clerk to point out that you don't have a signature on your card.
Also, while it's true a thief can copy the signature on your card, if you don't sign then the thief can just sign your name in his handwriting.
It used to be the signature on the card shows acceptance of the card issuer's policies and terms and conditions.
Common mistake is considering the signature on the back of the card to serve authentication purposes (pattern to compare against). No, it's merely your agreement to the contract under which the card was issued to you, making it a valid card. There is no requirement for the signature you put at the time of the purchase to agree with the one on the card - as long as both are your personal signatures, legally everything is in the clear. If you sign while using someone else's card, you're committing a fraud, but the appearance of the signature doesn't mean shit, only the fact you're not the authorized user of this card, which cannot be verified by the cashier.
Same with checks, I had someone Break into my grandmother's house, steal a book of checks, and print self printed checks with slight variations, and use their or a false ID to run 5 checks with a average $500 apiece, I talked to a store manager who told me they do not accept such large amounts on checks on your first time there. CERTIGY got my affidavits of forgery, and still left the checks on my credit report for 7 years.
They can do that anyway, and can probably get close enough. Your argument is invalid. Ask for ID if there is no signature, not that difficult now, is it.
@@DVankeuren They can also demand my diving club license or that I dance salsa in the middle of the store, and they can refuse the sale because they don't like my hat. Nothing of that is lawful, but they *can* do it.
It's like that car that you can't steal, according to the insurance company who included theft protection in the policy.
My primary debit card has a chip! I use it online a good bit! I also have used it to make POS purchases where I was forced to swipe it. I left BOA many years ago!
How is your debit card secure when you give it on line? You are at the mercy of the place doing your transaction is honest.
I'm in The Netherlands. I don't think I've ever used the magnetic strip swiping on a bank-issued card. I can't give you an exact measure, but it's probably 10 years ago that we stopped really using that. Even before that, we've always used exclusively debit cards with PIN (the Dutch verb for making a card payment is even "pin").
For the last 5 years or so, card payments have transitioned to contactless, requiring the NFC chip on the terminal to read the card, and only requiring a PIN for higher amounts. I only very rarely have to insert my card into the terminal, typically at dated cheap unmanned fuel stations (but even most of those support contactless payment now).
This happened to my wife’s debit card. It never left the house after receiving it and somehow it is being used fraudulently.
My roommate never left the state, but his card number did, ordered things the fraudsters shipped using his deceased grandmother's name to a state he nor she have ever been to. Nor any known relatives there. His bank was kind enough to work with him, got him a new card and fraud listed the charges. You get a 50/50 chance of a helpful financial institution in this matter.
If the un-authorized transactions were done as “card not present” or a physical swipe then what happened to you is not that unusual. What would be unusual is if the transactions were done using the EMV/chip, which is practically impossible to clone.
He only found out after his card was blocked, the bank was small enough they knew him by name, but didn't have his current phone number to call him, and by that time he was only answering numbers he knew
@@Stache987 Depends on how obvious the fraud is. I used to work in the fraud department for a credit card company. I took a call from a guy who swiped his card at the gas pump. Walked in the store and attempted to buy some food but was declined. Between the time he did the first swipe and the 2nd, the card was used to max out his credit limit in a different state over 200 miles away. I shut the card down and issued the credit without anything else needed from the customer.
Is it possible the guy duplicated his own card and gave it to someone else then called them right after he made his first purchase so they could max it out? Yes but I had no way to prove that so I had no choice but to take care of them.
Sadly there are way too many people who try and screw over the company that they chose to do business with that when actual fraud happens and it is not painfully obvious banks may not believe you.
People have used the word "foolproof" forever. Fools have been debunking the concept forever.
for many decades BofA has proven to be hostile to its customers; hearing "you must prove your innocence" is their default attitude.
i briefly had an account with them, at the time they tried to tell me i was signed up for some program where they "match" the "change" on a purchase with no way to opt out.
eg: buy something for $3.10, the "change" (despite being only eligible for digital transactions) would be 90 cents. they would then "match" that 90 cents by "doubling" it as a deposit into your account. but they would take that 90 cents FROM you to give it back to your savings accnt. [yes its goofy, no its not change, no they're not matching anything].
it made no sense other than trying to tag you with Overdraft fees for their benefit. i closed the account the same day.
I had to update my signature to vote. It was flagged by the attendant. My signature has changed in 25 years since I first registered. It was a pain in the butt to get it changed.
On all of my cards I print, "CHECK ID", on the signature strip. I have done this for twenty years or more. No problems.
Those days are LONG GONE. they steal your info now And they make another card. So the card they use has their name on it with YOUR info. The only way the "check ID" thing works if if they stole your card. That's not what happened here. They got his card number and cloned a card.
@@every-istand-ophobe6320 wrong, they heisted the first card that was sent.
I love it!! every time a cop gives me a ticket I sign it with a straight line and they always say "use your legal signature" and I say " that is my legal signature prove it isn't!!!"
My friend writes "Ask for ID" in the signature section on his credit card and almost never gets asked for ID. I never even looked when I worked retail. Employees making minimum wage can't be bothered.
These days you almost never have to had your card to the cashier.
Even if that wage is increased to $15/hr.?
The big wave of CC/Debit card fraud at the moment is a $9.99 charge for an audible acct…..if it’s on your bank statement and you don’t have an audible account, get a new card ASAP
I’ve been able to read chips and cards since the 90s. I can even write to them. I know manufacturers of these devices have been sued as well as the customers who purchased them since they became available. These types of cards are used for many different things not just bank cards. Turns out the suing people for owning this technology is illegal. But it has put a damper on the availability of this technology because of the litigious nature of banks. I will admit The device is in storage and I’ve never used it beyond the curiosity when it first came out. It was part of my computer case actually. And no I have not broken into credit cards. I have no reason to. But the technology is out there and has been out for 25 years
Haha nice
@@neilkurzman4907 Hash just means takes longer to read
@@neilkurzman4907 I have no interest in doing anything with it…
Then again some might just clone over the data
Smart Card readers and programmers are available, and have been, to anyone who wants to buy them. DTV, years ago, sued people who bought programmers, due to the stupidity of people who bought them from hacking sites and posted comments about their illegal hacking on forums that are still online today. When a large group of stupid criminals post about their illegal activities, other legitimate users of the technology are hurt.
@@neilkurzman4907 the chip itself never was the secure part. Its publicly available hardware designed to be communicated with via publicly available hardware (the readers are litterally available for purchase by anyone for any "business").
The software on the chip is the "secure" part since the reader is only a proxy between you and your bank which is what verifies the card is legit, and frankly then its only "secure" when using something akin to 2FA. Hence why its chip and pin, not chip and signature, without the pin all you need to do is clone the chip, which is with the right gear really simple, as your not decrypting the software, your copying it, encryption and all.
And secure is a bit deceptive, it's a scale, something is only as secure to a set level, in the aim of making it require more effort to breach than the reward is worth.
It amazes me the US allows you to sign for stuff still, that's not been accepted practice in the UK in well over 10 years, likely nearer 20. Here you have contractless payment (upto a set maximum), and chip&pin only, and even occasionally a contact less payment will automatically be declined as a security measure to make you use your chip & pin to ensure the care hasn't been stolen.
I used to work for the IRS many years ago. An organization regularly signed the Qtrly form with a legal phrase that translates to "As has been done before". The IRS changed their recognition system, One clerk got a form signed with that phrase, which did not meet the new protocol. It went from area management to the criminal investigations department. Word was they found a 25 year long fraud scheme using that form , with the now invalid signature on it to proceed.
The IRS are the ultimate criminals.
Bank of America omg, use to have an account with them. When I opened an account about 4 yrs ago, I received my chip debit card. Two months later I noticed on my online account that it was being used, immediately went to the bank and thankfully they took care of it. The banker I spoke to when I asked how can it be used at a ATM from across the state said oh there are ways for these people to do this. Thankfully it was not huge amounts but when it happened again a year later with a new card I just closed the account afterwards. I am with Huntington now as so far no problems
Not had a BofA account, mainly because of what happened several years back. My friend deposited a $600 pay check and it was put on hold for 3 weeks due to "suspicious activity." Turned out that was the weeks when BofA was actually insolvent and didn't say anything, and stole money from deposit holders to run a short term ponzi scheme until their books balanced a few weeks later. The SEC caught on and fined them.
One of my customers told me that their processor would cover any fraudulent purchases if made through a chip reader but fraudulent swipe transactions would be on them.
I’ve already had a card issued to me whose electronic elements were duplicated on another card. While this was a card used for clocking in at work, the technology is the same.
A one in a zillion chance is still a chance - just as when someone wins the lottery.
Here in Finland; Bank/Credit cards with a chip - there is only a white strip instead of magnetic strip, so chip + pin combo is only way (except contactless option). I'm not sure if that strip even contains any information. Payments under 50 euros can be done contactless, but payment terminals randomly, quite often, denies contactless transaction and requires chip+pin combo to be used. ATMs with both slots (chip & magnetic strip) simply throws out new chip cards from magnetic strip reader and asks to put in to chip reader. Chip is harder, almost impossible (but with right tools it can be done), to copy than magnetic strip, but all security measures really goes down to drain if authentication is done by signature. Contactless payments has their problems, there has been cases when someone with payment terminal on public transport has done fraudulent contactless payments.
Back in 2015 there was a story of a French credit card fraud ring that was rewiring chip cards to bypass PIN authentication, and that this had been going on since at least 2011 (Wired: "X-Ray Scans Expose an Ingenious Chip-and-Pin Card Hack"). Chip cards are much harder than mag stripe cards to skim, but it's definitely possible and security flaws that enable this were also written off as impossible back then.
The only way to keep your card safe is to use Apple or Google Pay through your phone since that uses a unique token for each transaction so your card number is never exposed in the first place. Unfortunately that wouldn't work in this situation, as it seems that the payment terminal or processor was compromised of the place where he payed the bill. It could be an employee that was behind it as well, but that has a much higher chance of being caught so I doubt that's what happened.
i agree! nfc and tempcards are the only way to not get pwned frfr
@@918_xDx That's legit actually... if the terminal/gateway/processor/issuer is down when you try to use your card, but you REALLY want to buy something with it, you might allow that "offline/keyed" transaction. The merchant SHOULD be calling the bank to get a voice authorization, however, as "force" transactions without them can be rejected outright at clearing time. There's nothing wrong with the handwritten thing, since you're allowed to "store" the card number for the life of a transaction... which includes waiting for the connection to be fixed. Key part is disposing of the card number properly, and storing it securely while you wait for the connection to come online. Now, the merchant is going to pay more for interchange because it is a more "risky" way of doing a transaction.
Everything is "Impossible" until someone proves that it isn't.
Don't omit details! The hack of 40 STOLEN cards is not the same as cloning the cards. The stolen cards had their chips removed, an additional chip was soldered to the removed chip, and the pair of chips were mounted to another card. The added chip would send a fake signal indicating that the PIN was correct, thereby allowing the transaction. This is not something of concern unless you have lost a card and not reported it.
I had AMTRAK almost decline my card at the window because I wrote "See ID" on the signature strip. They too claimed that that isn't a signature. After a long discussion they finally agreed to accept it.
We older folks remember when an ID was required for each CC purchase, and they would compare your signature on the card with the one on the receipt. Sometimes when my number gets stolen I wonder if there's someone at the bank that is giving out the info for money.
That was stupid, when they could have just asked for ID. Like Steve mentioned, signatures rarely match.
@@DVankeuren , yet, my state compares the signature with other ones on file with the state to validate mailed in ballots.
You wrote, "Sometimes when my number gets stolen I wonder if there's someone at the bank that is giving out the info for money." Does "sometimes" indicate multiple occurrences of identity theft?
In the days when all credit card transactions were on paper, it was common to compare the signatures on the card with the signature on the receipt and on the driver's license.
@@memyname1771 , for a while it seemed like a semi-annual occurence.
Steve - Many years ago I was using a card at a department store in Florida back before PINs, Chips, RFID, etc. The clerk noticed my card was unsigned after I signed the slip, and asked me to sign it. I did. She then carefully compared the signature on the card to that on the slip I signed. When I said "of course they are going to match" she said "sir, we have to check the signature on every credit card sale.".
'The inventors of "foolproof" systems, underestimate the Ingenuinty of the fools.'
Nothing is unbreakable. Pins can be read. Signatures can be forged. Chips copied or dual printed and accidentally handed out to two customers.
Titanic comes to mind.
Chips cannot be duplicated or 'dual printed'. Each one has a unique asymmetric certificate. Multiple chip IDs can be tied to the same account, but the audit trail would show unique PKI exchanges and it would be clear that they were different chips.... if the bank bothers and didn't just assume the customer was lying...
@@jacklewis100 Really? I'll need you to meet a few people at Defcon and or Blackhat this year.
Absolutely No reason that we allow signatures.
@@jacklewis100 you are simply wrong that a chip can’t be duplicated. There are mechanisms that should soon make it clear that it has been duplicate if 2 parties are trying to use separate cards with the same certificate, but I am not comfortable broadcasting the details involved in securing financial transactions or circumventing those security measures.
This was one of the funniest episodes in a while. The humor was on point!
They sent two card? Did he ask for two? This sounds like more of BOA's shady practices.
My signature is almost completely illegible. The only letters that are recognizable are the J and the K. I haven't signed the back of my credit or debit cards in 25 years.
I make mine a mess so it's not forged, AGAIN! When i was a kid my brother got cassette tapes in my name. Judge said it was my signature.... i paid.
@@1mikewalsh No judge would ever hear a case like that. If you were both under 18 that's a family matter not a legal matter.
Either the first one never arrived and he asked for a replacement, or something really shady went on where someone pretended to be him asked for a replacement and swiped it. I am guessing someone swiped the first one somewhere along the mail path.
@@richardmillhousenixon not to mention you have to be 18 to have a credit card.
@@DVankeuren Not for a debit card, but in my experience I have only had to sign for my debit card twice in the six years I've had one.
Love the sound of your signature......
In the UK we had chip/pin for years before the US. We have had all these arguements.
It turns out EVERY transaction
is recorded on the chip and can be recovered to answer definitively if that actual card was used.
Same in Canada. Last time my card was comprimised was in the US when I had to swipe/sign. My wife tapped her card at a Trader Joes in LA in 2017 and the clerk had a shocked look when it worked...
huh, nice
Lmfao but LOVING the thought of using a line as my signature. I recently "had" to sign a card, I needed as second proof of ID at a standardized test center. Moving forward... you rock
I've been repairing bank equipment and atm's for over 15 years. Chip cards ARE NOT foolproof. I see all kinds of fraud including chip cards.
Would it be fair to say the rate of fraud is a lot less since they got away from just the magnetic strip?
@@larrybe2900 Yep, most certainly. It has helped reduce fraud on physical cards but it still happens. I personally would not use an atm or a card reader at a business that is not chip card (EMV) compliant. Chips are not foolproof but its still your best option.
Woodbury Commons in Harrimon NY is a large area of outlet stores that is known for clothing and some fraud that takes place. These buildings are ok in size but you don't want to be there on the weekends and parking is a nightmare.
I can tell you with some certainty that a financial institution can tell if it was a chip/pin auth or a swip auth.
Here on Finland most places have contactless pay for up to 50€, and even that sometimes prompts you to insert the card to the chip reader and input your pin. And all purchases over 50€ are always chip + pin.
Signature was only valid back in the days of embossed cards that needed to go through the whatchamacallit roller thing with paper. So probably 20 years ago...
And even the magstripe days in between required pin number.
On the railway in the UK, at one time they didn't carry a roller machine on the train, they would use the back of a teaspoon to rub the slip over the card.
It stuns me how lax CC security is in the United States, then I remember that banks over there are basically immune from liability over fraud. Chip and Pin became the defacto standard in the early 2000s, there's no excuse for not using it when it improves security so much.
It should be chip and pin with on person two factor.
If you're referring to Europe, don't think it's any better there. Not only do most people now use direct debit cards (money vanishes from your account immediately) but often you don't even have to enter a pin number, instead just passing the card over the reader is enough. The banks seem entirely immune from blame in any fraud claim. Not only that but they often fail to flag any potentially fraudulent behavior. There have been many cases where people's life savings have disappeared even if the card has never left the holder's house. In some cases pensioners have lost $300,000 and more. The way it works is the scammer duplicates your card somehow (there are many ways to do this) and then buys thousands of scratch cards because the individual transaction value is small. They don't care if they only win 10% of the time - the payouts are in cash. So an old dear who has never gambled in her life suddenly finds zero money in her accounts and thousands of scratch card payments and the bank has done nothing to A) warn her B) stop the obvious fraud going on and C) blindly states she must have suddenly taken up gambling and absolutely refuses to return any money. The only solution to this is to have the minimal amount of money in the debit account so you don't lose too much.
@@mb-3faze In the USA you have to enter a pin on a debit card on most terminals. And who keeps $300,000 in their checking account? That by itself is beyond crazy...
@@redbaron6805 That used to be the case in Europe, so expect to see contact-less payments become the norm in the US (just like Apple Pay). However, even with the pin entry requirement it's pretty easy to get someone's pin by following them around. In fact I heard it is part of a police recruit's training to be assigned an unsuspecting old person shopper and to have obtained their pin number by the end of the day. You are right, of course, leaving all your wealth in one account with easy access is daft but my point is, with all the computer algorithms available to the banks, they could have A) warned the vulnerable individual and B) simply stopped payment authorization when thousands of scratchcard purchases were made. The bank never apologized and never returned any money - they made thousands in transaction fees.
@@mb-3faze I agree the banks can do more, but the chips and RFID are definitely making the cars safer.
I had a similar experience with my previous bank in 2019. I had a card without a chip that had to have been skimmed at a pinpad since I only ever use a paypal card linked to my bank account online. The transactions were done a 2hr drive away after I had used the same card at the liquor store across the street 30min before their first transaction. My claim was denied twice "because the pin number was used". I pulled my funds and moved over to a credit union.
Idk why our picture aren't on our credit cards. It wouldn't be hard to do.
Fact is, credit card companies make so much money, cc fraud isn't their top priority
it should at least be an option. but to be fair, most phones have nfc now and are much more secure.
And exactly how is that going to happen? To be totally safe, the issuing card company would have to take the picture. Having it sent through the mail is open to fraud.
I feel like you are underestimating the difficulty. It's not like you can just ask a customer to send in a digital photo. If you want the photograph to serve the purpose of identifying the individual, then there needs to be verification processes. These typically have to be done in person (as I must do for my driver's license, and my employee ID).
I know BOA did in the 90's when I had an account with them, took the picture right when I opened the account in house. It didn't last. How many times a day do you hand your card over to a cashier nowadays? Walmart, gas stations, retailers, any walk in fast food, they all have those do it yourself readers so the cashiers never have to handle it. A few mom/pop shops, drive thru, restaurants, and such are the odd ones out where you hand over a card and thats just long enough to run and return, they don't train for security and even if they did do you think that part time high schooler is worried about cc fraud.
@@jbone665 that's true
Yes Heather, I have - far too frequently.
I had freaking *never* had my bank card compromised until I had to get the new chip card, then no lie it was stolen twice in as many months. Thankfully my bank was awesome about it but man it really made it had to trust those cards.
Never had an issue with CHIP cards & they have been widespread use in Canada since 2010. I had to replace cards that were flagged due to mag stripe skimming before twice. Fast Forward to 2017 and we took a road trip to the US and I had to use the mag stripe at a number of places... my card was skimmed in Las Vegas of all places... an hour on the phone when we were in LA was ironic. The skimmers used my card to buy passes to Disneyland Paris (formerly EuroDisney). We had just bought passes to Disneyland & California Adventure 🤦♂️🤦♂️. The other funny thing on that trip was the clerk at Trader Joes told my wife that the tap feature on his till didn't work
... when it beeped and said approved the look of shock 🤣🤣
How does your card getting stolen constitute a black mark against chip cards?
@@DVankeuren "compromised" not "stolen." IE somehow my card, which I had possession of, was used two different times, fraudulently.
I understand correlation does not equal causation, but it's hard not to see how for 5 years prior to the mandatory chip upgrade, I never once had a fraud issue, then within 2 months of the upgrade the issue happened twice, as a bad optics for the chip being "better" and "foolproof."
@@realalbertan I had a coworker who's card was skimmed at a local gas station, it ended up being a giant ring that got taken down in the long run. It's crazy what criminals can pull off when they put their mind to it.
As for the tap to pay, that happens all. the. time. 🤣 It's embarrassing how undertrained on implementation and chaotic our payment infrastructure is here. You can walk into two stores with the same exact pin pad and they function entirely differently. Having worked retail years ago, it was maddening, you got use to your system then you'd go shop somewhere and do the process wrong because they had an entirely different system.
I got my first chip card when my previous card was compromised by the Wendy's data breach.
Given how much of an issue card skimming was, the chip is an improvement but by no means foolproof.
There are actually two cvv numbers. There's one cvv that's only on the magstripe, and the cvv2 is on the back of the card. In the case of a chip failure and the card is swiped instead, it would be possible to require the cvv2 to be verified in addition to the cvv.
Throwing a chip card in a microwave on high for about 8 seconds will kill the chip. Most card readers will default to the magnetic stripe on a card once the chip has malfunctioned 3 times.
Incompetance breeds crime
Actually, the "chip cards" are as easy to counterfeit as the non-chip cards. Here in my area, there are no less than 3 entities that have equipment that can read and write to the chips. The state prison system in PA uses this technology in their visiting areas (cash is not allowed in the prisons) for food dispensers. These dispensers can read the chip to determine if sufficient payment is available, and then write to the chip to establish the new balance after the card is used to make a purchase. The city of Bethlehem, PA uses this technology for payment for parking meters. Cards are issued by the parking authority with a n initial balance on them. They are then used in parking meters that once again are capable of reading and writing to the chips. The list goes on.
This technology readily available to anybody that services any sort of vending machine. It can be (and probably is) used to duplicate credit and debit cards. All that is needed is a bunch of blanks and access to this technology.
Anything that is said to be foolproof will generally result in the creation of a better fool.
I'm not sure if they are the same technology or not, but I've noticed that the "chip" in the debit card looks identical to sim cards. If it is the same technology, then you can add cell phone companies to the list. And I've seen people easily make custom sim cards.
The balance is not written to the card, a system tracks card use..
I know of one food truck vendor that has a small attachment on his I-phone to scan your card. This tells me he has your info. I use cash.
Sadly not all judges know to immediately throw somebody out of the court the second they say their product is 'foolproof'
I always joke that if I were to ever sign my name in a way that was actually readable, it would most certainly get flagged for fraud.
Here in Canada, swipe, chip, or just tap it! (No signature, no pin!) That is usually limited to $100 per transaction on the tap. Eventually, the card asks for your pin to verify it is your card! (It could be 50 purchases down the road, I am not sure)
If someone clones your card, you have to pay those low $ tap charges. I asked my bank to disable the tap feature. Nope, they can't. Or won't.
Keep your card inside a metal sleeve so they can't be cloned.
I used to love the tap cards back in Canada. If you only had one rfid card in your wallet, you didn't need to take the card out, just hold the whole wallet up to the reader! Was really convenient, if somewhat inherently insecure. I don't remember anything about tap purchases not having fraud protection - pretty sure that's not accurate. Also, if you want to disable the "tap" feature of your card, make a cut about 1/4" in from the inside of the card on the opposite side as the chip contacts - there's an antenna loop that runs around the outside edge of the card, and if you cut it, the card simply won't work for tap anymore. Usually if you hold the card up to a bright light, you can see the antenna loop around the edge of the card
@@gorak9000 Only problem holding wallet up to machine is if you have a couple different credit cards with tap feature! I guess whichever card tapped first would be charged?
@@unclemarksdiyauto I said "IF you have only one rfid card in your wallet". If you have more than one rfid card that operates on the same frequency, they essentially interfere with each other and nothing works.
BofA. Bunch of thieves! Dropped them like a hot rock. They have “creative accounting “ practices. 🤬🤬
The regulations are such: between the merchant and the FI, the one with lesser technology is on the hook: if the bank’s card has a chip but the merchant still requires magnetic strip swiping, the merchant is liable to the FI. If both merchant and FI are equal technology or the FI is using weaker technology, the FI is on the hook. FIs are required to provide provisional credit during the investigation.
It baffles me how bad security is in the US regarding money... checks, signatures, and non-chip payments are unthinkable in Norway. Another thing is that I would under NO circumstances give my card away when paying for a meal... How is that still a thing over there?? I have no idea how the fraud rates compare, but I imagine it to be sooooo much easier...
Norway has a significantly smaller population.
Over here we compromise the reader network at some retailer, collect data for a month, have a computer determine the algorithm of the chips, and make duplicate chip cards.
I've gone/going thru credit card fraud twice and each time has been "expedited delivery" to addresses in Atlanta. Different CC companies.
Can't tell you how many times I've had cashiers tell me a signature had to be legible. Mine has not been since shortly after high school.
There is a conference every year that shows different...
The signature thing is DUMB, they don't even check to see WHAT you sign.
I've used my mom's card before, and I'm a man and signed my own name, was never questioned.
I used to work at a gas station.
It is VERY common for people to simply scratch a line across the signature screen.
Signatures are poor security unless you actually use them properly.
Another "signature" presentation. Cheers!
This is one reason why I'm glad I live in Canada...
Our Bank Debit/ATM Cards require a PIN code when you use the Magnetic Swipe or Chip Slot...The ONLY thing that doesn't need the PIN is the RFID Tap BUT (at least for TD Canada Trust) TAP Transactions are limited to $100.00 Maximum and can NOT get Cash Back, if you want Cash Back or the Transaction is $100.01 or higher and then you must use the Chip or Mag Stripe and PIN...
I'm not familiar with the Security Measures on Canadian Credit Cards (I refuse to use them)...
I let my son sign the card reader once and he wrote "Bob T. Builder." Sale went through just fine 😄
I have also drawn a cat face as my signature.
As I recall it "Bob The Builder, Gets it Done". And it sounds like your son, gets it done just as easily !
@@KiwiCatherineJemma Yes he can 😁
Steve for Supreme Court justice. You’d get my vote if I were a senator!
I used to sign merchant receipts 'Unsigned'.. Never got confronted for it...
Reading the title, I instantly thought The Lockpicking Lawyer cracking another unpickable lock in 30 seconds.
If he was working at a hospital at the time of the purchases, there would be various ways to prove he wasn't at the store.
Colleagues, patients, CCTV footage, reports he wrote, sign-in information.
I think the problem is that he works nights and the purchases were made in the daytime, when he’s asleep at home.
Half the time they don't even ask for my pin!
B of A is a pain in the A to deal with!! I write "ASK FOR ID" on my cards instead of a signature..
I had a bank tell me my card had been compromised, so they were sending me a new one overnight FedEx. The next day, before I received the new card via FedEx, I received another fraud alert call saying the new card was compromised. I hadn't even seen it yet, and it arrived in sealed FedEx envelope.
Working in grocery pickup during the time of Covid, it was decided that we wouldn't make customers sign for their order. They still could if they insisted, but since its an electronic device that is in all our hands and gets passed around constantly and can't really be disinfected it made a lot of sense germ wise not to pass it through even more hands. The device itself still insists on a signature though so we would sign for the customers.
What no one had told me though was that the customer emailed receipt includes 'their' signature. I'd just been signing by drawing the :p emoji for months. Till someone complained and I found out, after that we standardized our signatures for customers were just a W after that. To indicate that wally world had signed for the order.
FedEx Drivers use CVV or some such initials to indicate a delivery that requires signature confirmation but driver would not risk the increased public exposure due to Covid.
When I was a cashier, at the time cashiers did the swiping of the card. I always looked at the signature space and did a rudimentary comparison. I had a gentleman who hadn't signed the card. When I mentioned that he hadn't signed it, he explained that he never signs cards because nobody knows his signature and so they couldn't replicate it. He couldn't understand that if someone found his unsigned card they could sign it and any comparison would be close.
Had another person who printed the name on the signature line. I explained that he had to sign the receipt. He then signed his OWN name!
And that is a wrong assumption to make as someone could easily get a signature close enough to pass. You could have just asked for his ID and not subject him to your misinformation.