I remember a Texas judge ruling on a non compete agreement that if the previous employer wanted to prevent someone from working in the industry they would have to continue to pay him while he wasn't working.
@@jrhenry830 I mean, non disclosure and non-compete when part of an employment, are usually part of the employment agreement, rather than separate contracts. Doesn't mean they can't be separate contracts, just that they all tend to be put together in one document in practice.
Something a lot of people don't know is that an NDA doesn't keep you from speaking with law enforcement or any government regulatory agency. Thanks for clearing that up.
Yeah. In practice, no. I was denied a promotion for filing a legal brief. Management, flatout, admitted it. Going to court can take 7 years, by then you are a homeless hobo or moved on as a loser, albeit with a home.
I got a great story about this. My previous employer was a naive, conniving, really terrible business owner. He operated a low voltage company that was the largest installer of Notifier Fire Alarms in the South East. If you're in this industry, you may have heard of him. He's pretty much blacklisted now. Anyway, one day one of the sales guys gets fed up with his constant renegotiation of bonuses so he quits. The owner had an attorney that he hired when he met him at a strip club. Yeah. A week after the salesman quit, he passes out these "NDAs." I put that in quotes because I actually read it, knowing the competency of his attorney. Sure enough he had stuff in there like if we go to court, no matter who wins the defendant has to pay all court and attorney fees. There was absolutely no considerations and it was a completely illegal document. However, if we were to keep our jobs, EVERYONE in the company had to sign it. So I crossed out large portions of the NDA and inserted my own language. I initialed them and took them to the attorney who signed it off on the spot. I don't think he read the part where it said if we go to court not only did they pay all fees, but also owed me compensation for my trouble, even if I lost. I signed it after that and quit a week later, starting my own business. Dumbest thing I've ever witnessed in a company.
I had one employer try to get me to sign a non compete for like 2 years, covering *almost* every continent by name, and was so vague that I could not have worked as a game programmer. It was completely unenforceable (Canada), but the fact that they tried made me turn down the job.
We had a local sandwich place that tried to force its *delivery drivers* to sign a non-compete agreement, meaning that they couldn't deliver for any other takeout place. The state attorney general stepped in and sued them to make them stop.
Good call. It's usually better to refuse to sign (unless they make it worth your while) than to sign in the hopes of it being deemed unenforceable later.
California, North Dakota, and Oklahoma flat out ban non-compete agreements. Biden signed an executive order July 9, 2021 telling the FTC to get medieval on companies who try to use non-compete agreements unfairly. The last non-compete I signed was pretty rational. For 12 mo I couldn't work for a direct competitor doing a largely similar job. But employees hired 18mo later were being forced to sign new non-competes that effectively said "you can't work in IT for 36 months". That was obviously unenforceable, though the company could still try to sue and make your life miserable. A friend quit after working about 5 years and did go to work for a direct competitor doing EXACTLY the same job; I asked about the non-compete and she said the new employer included in her contract that they would indemnify her from all damages if our employer came after her and handle her legal defense, as well. But the new company claimed ours wouldn't dare try it knowing the indemnification was in place since the only value in attempting to sue for such a ridiculous non-compete was to intimidate employees and with a bottomless pit of corporate lawyers available to do the defense it wouldn't work. The company also sent around the new non-compete to everybody demanding we who had been there a while sign the new one to override the wimpy old one. I just tossed the demands in the trash and they didn't push it. They kept sending the same "here, sign this and return it" notice about every 3mo for a year and then dropped it.
Apparently it's a thing for landlord/tenant issues now too. I caught my last landlord trying to charge me for SEVENTEEN HOURS of cleaning on a 800sq ft apt that was already clean. They had the audacity to ask me to sign a form saying I would not share negative opinions of them before they'd give the rest of my deposit back. Took it to small claims & their tone changed pretty quick. Settled almost immediately, gave me all they owed plus all court costs. 😂
That's because that deposit is protected and does not belong to the landlord unless they prove that you were negligent. Guess they could not prove that.
I rented a Condo in a upscale neighborhood the roofer screwed up the manager asked me to fix it. I worked on several units, then asked to be paid before working on the rest. Manager refused, I would need to try to collect from the roofer who didn't finish. I heard the guy who scammed them on the roofing was a friend of someone, and he spent most of the cash to buy a new truck instead of materials and paying a crew. As the manager wasn't going to pay me I stopped doing free work. 🚫🆓🔨 Later they refused an exit walk thru/ inspection, they just sent a maid. The company had the audacity on top of not paying me for work completed, to bill me for cleaning an already clean unit. The housecleaner admitted I can see your GF just stayed up all night cleaning this to show the manager they aren't coming, and this cleaning doesn't even need done... 🧼🧹 but I still want to get paid. SMH
One older lady, possibly senile at times, rented a house W land for 🐎 &🐂 She knocked on the front door unannounced and when a kid opened it she pushed her way in, and started looking around, CONFUSED, I live here why is your stuff in my house? You don't remember renting it to my family? This drove his mom to quickly find another place to move to. Later older woman tried to keep the entire deposit claiming that one hair found in a bathroom behind the 🚽 was worthy of ~$2K See you in court. Her attorney had to write a letter that both said while she thinks she deserves your money, I know we wouldn't win in court so here is a check for your full deposit.
This is the problem with so many of these cases. They try to bargain for something they want, maybe even legitimately want, but then try to ransom your own property or leverage debts they already have incurred, and say "I'll live up to my legal or contractual obligations, or won't openly break the law, if you offer me something I'm not entitled to". It is blackmail, and illegal in many cases, yet they don't have the comprehension that it isn't theirs to negotiate with.
@@DVankeuren they most certainly couldn't. On the contrary, I could prove the place was clean, and I'm better condition than when I signed the lease. Only thing I forgot to do was replace an air filter in the furnace (which the lease said I had to do & I 100% spaced it). They charged me $75 for that 🙄
I worked a a company that got bought out. We were bringing in money hand over fist, but the new owners were actively taking away bonuses and we were reduced to a few cents per year as raises. When they started hemorrhaging good staff they tried to get us to sign non compete contracts. It was a very niche market and signing would effectively kick us out of our careers for a few years. We'd heard from other branches that it was coming so we weren't surprised when we had a meeting and some smooth HR type passed the contracts out at a meeting and told us to sign them. She got VERY annoyed and snippy when we took the time to read them. (never a good sign when they don't want you to read it.) In effect we'd be bound to them. If we quit or were fired we'd be locked out of our careers for half a decade. The compensation they offered amounted to less than a week's pay. I was on the verge of quitting myself and knew I could have a job in days if I did. I was getting rather outspoken, so I asked the HR person, what the purpose was in having us sign. She replied that it was to prevent us from going to a competitor and taking our customers with us. I then asked what would happen if we refused to sign. She rather smugly told me I'd be fired. That's when I told her I couldn't speak for anyone else but if they fired me for not signing I would immediately go to a competitor and take my customers with me. She got really quiet after that. Some signed. One guy admitted to writing "Donald Duck" on the signature line and handed it back in. I worked there for another year or so before I finally quit but I never signed.
Yeah, some people really dont think. Not only that, those kind of contracts do not hold up in court, you cannot block someone from getting a job, thats illegal.
I'm an ex-Apple engineer, and I've signed NDAs for each project I worked on, together with an overall NDA promising to preserve Apple's trade secrets. They're also quite routine here in the Silicon valley for any prospective employee so that the employer can talk about work in progress that's not public information yet.
I worked for Salesforce and we just had 1 NDA / non compete. I even got an amendment to it because it actually tried to take the IP rights for anything I did at home on my own personal computer on my own time (remote job). So I typed up a paragraph and had it signed by a Director and HR that amended it to only apply if it was a software that was competing with a Salesforce project Why would I sign one? Because they paid really well and if I didn't I wouldn't get a job. Honestly I've never worked in a tech job that didn't require it. Heck I've worked in a factory making steel products as a welder and had to sign an NDA
I worked with a company supplying Apple and working R&D on project for Apple. I never worked with a tech company that didn't have an NDA. My current position on a cutting edge tech project not only do I have NDAs up the wazzu, we have ever supplier and vendor that we discuss any technical specs with have to sign NDAS.
When I was 18 I went to work at a boarding and show dog kennel in California. I was live in help, and I was supposed to travel to dog shows with the handlers. It was the worst working experience of my life. I ended up suing them and they settled but I had to sign an NDA. This place still advertises consistently in help wanted sections of industry publications. They didn't want me to write or tell anyone about the experience. I was 18, they gave me $25k, so I signed it.
I owned a coffee concession stand and attended a few of the dog shows. I will be nice and generous here when I say that "dog show people" are the most unique, eclectic and eccentric group of people I have ever met. The friendliest shows were the horse shows. Horse people seem super different than dog people.
I sign NDAs all the time to test video games in development. Testing and feed back to developers of the game before its final release, which is often different from the version I test. Improvements are made.
Yeah, I was going to say, I've signed a bunch of NDAs to be part of closed beta testing of various video games. If you don't sign, you don't get to do the testing, end of story. And it makes sense for them to put NDAs in place, because otherwise beta testers could put videos and screenshots up and talk crap about how bad the game is, which would be bad publicity and largely unfair since the game isn't finished yet.
I subscribe to a youtube channel of a content creator for a video game I play. The creator has an NDA with the game developer that lets him see upcoming content for the game. It allows them to get feedback but it also allows the creator to have his videos ready to drop the same day as the new content. Both sides win because the developer gets more people playing the game and the creator gets more views because he has videos talking about the newest content and helping players take advantage of it.
I've signed plenty of them, but in my industry, they always come at the beginning of a project and say "I pinky-swear not to say anything about this movie/TV show/game until it's officially announced and I get the all-clear from the licensor." For us, they're to prevent media leaks. The kind Steve's talking about are like mob hush money payoffs, but with lawyers doing the threatening instead of leg-breaking goons.
I had an employer ask me to sign a non compete agreement. I told them no that I would be willing to sign a NDA but my career was due to my college degree not anything they did. They dropped it entirely. I guess the revenue I brought into the company was worth not worrying too much about if I stated my own company. It was a good bet for them since I have been there 25 years.
@@themecoptera9258 That's very similar to advice I heard about cheating spouses. "The best revenge you can get on someone who steals your wife/husband is to let them have her/him."
I've signed hundreds of NDAs and Non-competes over the years as a software developer. I'm not sure how common they are for salary employees but they are extremely common as a contractor/sub-contractor.
That might not be legal anymore. Actually, I know for a fact that it isn't. If you're a contractor and not an employee, how does "your client" prove they are not your employer? The fact that you can and maybe do have other clients! What, that's forbidden by the contract they forced you to sign? GOOD NEWS: You're due both civil relief for the legally mandated rights and compensation that have been denied you! Not so good for them, they're facing prosecution for criminal hiring practices and tax evasion. Unless of course they wanna either re-negotiate your contract or hire you outright and offer you enough money to forget about what wasn't done in the past. In either case you're in a strong negotiating position if you're reasonable.
@@knghtbrd As programmer/consultant I sign them all the time. They do not ask me to not work for other companies just not to reveal the things covered by the NDA.
@@knghtbrd Well they aren't my employer since we work on a contract basis. They have some specific project for which they need developers and usually speaking there is a set of contracts for each project that each contractor must sign. Sometimes I have to bid on the project and sometimes they just tell me their budget. In the end it is up to me if I take the project or not. Most salary employees do not have much, if any, choice in the projects they work on. The NDA's basically tell me I can't go around telling people important details about the project and the non-compete tells me I can't work for someone else doing that exact same thing again for x number of years(typically 2-5). They are all reasonable and common.
An example of a non-compete that I signed was for a pet food company and although most of what they needed to be done was solving standard business problems the combination was unique to them and their industry. The non-compete basically said that I couldn't work for another pet food company building a system like that for 2 years. It was very specific to their industry and wasn't a broad "you can't code for anyone for 2 years". Another time was for a large cryptocurrency exchange but everything I did for them was unique to their industry and the non-compete was much more broad. It still didn't prevent me from doing other work in the industry per say but did prevent me from working for other exchanges.
I also imagine that the cast and crew of movies in production are required to sign NDAs in order to keep details of plot and characters from spoiling the movie before its release.
The BBC reported that casting agents and their clients were being asked to sign NDAs before the rôle was described or a script shown. The Bond films get past this by using old scripts to gauge an actor's ability. So, a Goldfinger script might be used for auditions for character A, whilst Thunderball script would be used for auditions for character B's role.
I worked for the federal government. I had two types of NDA. For security purposes I had to promise not to disclose classified defense information. Penalties included forfeiture of all proceeds from any disclosure. The second area included government procurement. I had access to privileged acquisition information, which I could not disclose to anyone. Both cases also had federal laws prohibiting disclosure. My understanding was that the civil penalties for disclosure were easier and quicker to purse than criminal sanctions.
I went through the same thing as a cryptographic maintenance technician. The NDAs for military security are more or less legitimate and serve a valid purpose.
I had to sign an NDA for a company that made removable hard drives and they didn't allow immigrants to work there. The NSA also came out to the site once. I was doing basic assembly and had no knowledge of electronics so I'm not sure what I'd be able to tell anyone. I don't think saying that I put random bits of stuff together would have been revealing state secrets, and if security was so important, why were they hiring random people through temp agencies?
True for the other side as well. As a gov't contractor, all our proposals have NDAs attached to them and all technology that we procure from subcontractors come with their NDAs. I'm constantly coming across them (well, really our legal department, but I digress).
@@Primalxbeast Depends. You may not have worked directly with classified materials. Actually, if you don't have a security clearance you would not have been allowed access tobclassified stuff period. The NDAs in this case is more of an OPSEC issue. You yourself might not be able to tell much, but information you disseminate can be combined with other information. Add these all up and it could cause actual harm.
I wonder if the owls signed an NDA to not disclose his location. Only see the merest hint. Wonder if that violates the NDA and will Steve take up the case??
"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?" "No, I cannot. A prior commitment explicitly limits what I might say in public." I have heard that agreements concerning criminal activity cannot be enforced by courts; I wish someone would discuss whether and to what extent this is true. One might imagine a worker who has witnessed criminal behavior (dumping hazardous materials, for example) and the company encouraging him to sign a NDA to keep the act secret. It seems to me that courts should NOT enforce such conspiracy to commit crimes.
Given the obligatory "It depends" caveat on all legal questions.... attorney client privilege is very much like an NDA. And as such, can not be used to conceal information about criminal activity if subpoenaed.
Most states have laws that contracts "against public policy" is unenforceable. Illegality of the action is a common public policy that makes it illegal. So illegal acts would void the NDA. BTW, that is why Trump could not have White House employees sign NDAs, as it was against public policy. It is public policy that full disclosure and openness is the best for government.
Judo NDA: Years ago, a Beltway Bandit firm illegally withheld my last pay until I signed a ridiculous NDA. Personnell was apologetic and agreed it was likely not enforceable. I asked to make it more ridiculous. They did and I signed, "under duress and coercion." The dumb CEO thought he won. We laughed at toilet paper they never dared enforce.
In the beginning of my regional management team experience I was working for a major retailer that was going to change direction in a major shakeup. We were flown in to Texas on a Sunday met that night and were told that changes were coming but before they would speak about them, we all had to sign NDA’s if you didn’t you would be removed from the room and a flight would be arranged for you to return home on Monday and your employment was terminated as of that Monday. Being young and with two young children at home I signed they also threatened that if you signed and spoke that they would come after you personally. This was the first time that I felt I had been held up at pen point….
Another great video Steve! As a vendor to manufacturers I routinely need to sign a NDA in order to do business with them. In my industry this is common practice as these manufacturers need to protect their intellectual property. What's in it for me is that I get an opportunity to sell products to these manufacturers. The manufacturers benefit is that I'm legally obligated not to share their "secret sauce" with the public or their competitors.
You don't work in China, Chinese companies regularly steal other companies intellectual property then sell it cheaper. I bought cheap new phone online, I received an iPhone (6?) Clone for $19 It even has a blanked out hole where the 🍎 Logo should be.
i've signed hundreds of NDA's in my employment from my employer and most clients. i also had to report a vendor to my employers legal team after discovering one of our products on display in their public lobby in violation of the NDA they agreed to.
I've signed many NDAs, in Canada. My favorite was US companies that didn't know the local laws, my lawyer would say "sign it quick before they figure out the mistake." Always sign them before doing the work. If asked to sign one after the deal is done I'd ask for something in return. An NDA falls out of effect if you aren't being paid, ridiculous conditions are thrown out, and you can't be prevented from working in your field. The problem is when they are using them to abuse employees. My wife took a job as a software trainer and was asked to sign an NDA that was more onerous than anything I've seen as a tech sector director. It said she couldn't work in the same industry anywhere on the planet for 100 years. You sign them because you're worried about eating and paying the bills.
Oh god yeah, Its hilarious when a company tries to enforce them up here. A judge would take one look at it and throw it out. Really if you as a company are expanding to a new market and want to have either NDA's or NCA's make sure they are enforceable in the market you are trying to expand to
I've had three employers that force us to sign NDAs as terms of employment. I felt it was stupid because they were tiny businesses that had *NOTHING* unique or proprietary to "discuss."
@@IkLms11 The one business told me their shipping method was proprietary. They use UPS and FedEx software like everyone else - not exactly proprietary, lol.
@@SilverMe2004 Except that you possibly open yourself up to unintended consequences. You have no idea what could constitute a disclosure. This is similar to "If you have nothing to hide or have done nothing wrong, just let them search your property".
Thanks for elucidating this topic. More importantly, you have allowed my brain to harken back to those early years of my life when I spent hours upon hours glued to the TV watching Loony Tunes and Merry Melodies, a large portion of which featured the Acme Rocket Sled and other dependable Acme products. Meep Meep
I would say, but I signed an NDA. Edit: It was part of a material breach of contract claim. We agreed not to file a lawsuit and they agreed not to charge the contract cancellation fees (about $30K). Part of the NDA was not posting negative reviews, etc. ...They ended up going bankrupt a few years later.
I signed an NDA as part of my employment some years ago. The reason is that I had access to confidential records belonging to a vast number of individuals.
Heather, whenever I think your wisdom has reached it's peek, you always manage to "rise" above it and new knowledge blooms like a flour....oops i meant flower 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
And if 90% of said no to NDA they'd stop using them or stop competing on the bleeding edge. I've got no problem keeping my trap shut on proprietary or classified work but protecting the "secret" process of make .45 cents of plastic cost $200 isn't covered no matter what they want.
NDA's are also a big thing in Hollywood, I'm pretty sure that every movie and television contract for everyone involved in pretty much every piece of media from Hollywood has most likely multiple NDA's baked right into the contract
Thank you for bringing up that a NDA has to give some sort of consideration to both parties. I was presented one from a group of passengers (Hollywood). $5 million penalty if I talked about anything that went on during the flight. We as a crew, politely declined and recommended they find alternative transportation.
@@DanknDerpyGamer Bingo. It was a non enforceable NDA and I told our office to tell them to pack sand. Their position was that they have been burned by previous pilots, limo drivers giving out plot secrets etc. My position was, too F'ing bad, take the bus. We kinda banned thet type of client shorty after.
The military uses NDAs to protect classified information. I had to sign one once because a system I worked on was responsible for messaging traffic between missile silos. I rarely ever saw any of that, but there was the possibility that I might.
While working as part of an outsourced design center, I've routinely seen mutual non-disclosure agreements- while details vary depending on the client, generally the design center agrees to not disclose the client's designs and trade secrets, and in return the client agrees to not disclose any concepts created before an actual purchase order is signed. The Design Center keeps the information compartmentalized from other clients, and the clients don't get to take the rough concepts to take them to fabricators to cut the center out of the loop.
I signed a non compete for a company when I was in the insurance industry. When I left to go to a competing firm (8 years later) the new company reviewed the non compete I had signed and concluded it was unenforceable. They agreed to hold me harmless for legal costs and any damages awarded if I was sued. They told me to move over as much business as I could. I joined the new firm, quickly took away several lucrative accounts and was sued immediately. 3 years later and after a lot of grief there was a settlement on the courthouse steps. Although my now employer did cover all the costs I still had to deal with the process. Worst experience of my life and I caution anyone offered a similar deal to be aware of the time and energy involved in the legal fight.
I was with a company for more almost 3 years, and it was only then that they tried to get me to sign an NDA and Non-Compete. I probably could have told them to go pound sand. I was already an employee in good standing, and I was not in a sensitive job position, where I had much proprietary information. No aspect of my job had changed, so I don't know where that came from, but I put it off numerous times and strung them along. H.R. sided with me on this, so they didn't push it very hard. Eventually, after modifying it heavily, I did sign off on parts of the NDA, but I had no real information to pass on anyway, so no skin off my nose. Besides, after editing it, the thing was so gutted as to be almost meaningless. I never signed on the non-compete, and two months or so later, left the company altogether.
A company B purchased the company A that I worked for. Company B had all of the "main" employees sign a non-compete agreement. Three months later company B fired all of the people that signed the non-compete agreement. I would not do that again!
I had a similar situation. Everyone refused to sign & said we will just quit. That was the entire IT department, so it would have crippled the bought company. The new company backed down.
I want to watch the cartoon series about the rocket sled. I've come across and signed NDA's when being a volunteer early access game tester. It's unpaid however you get to see a game in an early state, often broken but will run. So the mutual benefit is seeing what a company is working on before any one else and telling them about reproducible bugs in the game. Some developers/publishing companies also welcome balance ideas or game mechanic ideas too, however it's generally so early on in the process that they know it will need to be balanced to make it fun/challenging. However mechanics that are boring or too repetitive can be addressed. It doesn't matter what the volunteer tester writes as it will be up to the developer to address the concerns and or fix the bugs. I have tested software that was released with the exact same bugs and poor balancing with the same poor game mechanics. Sometimes I wonder why people including the developers bother to go through such a cycle in their developments if they're going to release as is regardless of what the feedback is. That feed back is often posted on forums the people who signed the NDA has access to, so it's not tested in a bubble of one. It can be fun and it can lead to a long time affiliation with a title/series of games. Or it can suck the entire enjoyment from the game until it's been overhauled if that will ever be the case. Publishers can also include an NDA when they know their title is not optimised to present it in a positive fashion before release so they'll place an embargo on public statements about the game. This can include reviewers as well as volunteer testers. What normally happens in good companies is that they'll push the release date back a month or so, annoying people but not as many as they would do by releasing known buggy and glitchy software. When developer/publishers do this with a known public testing duration of two weeks or a month, it throws their professionalism and standards of quality in to doubt by all the gaming public and I just don't know why companies do this. Except when it happens before the end of the financial year, and it's just to make the bottom line look good for the shareholders. Sadly those generally don't play the games, which is fine if you only care about a profit, personally if I was a shareholder in this company, I'd be worried about next year and following the concurrent player count trend to see if fixes and updates bring back more people or if the current base prior to release can be maintained. Sorry for the wall of text everyone. I'm just very upset as to how Elite Dangerous has been mistreated by FDEV and David Braben, OBE. It could be far better for all.
I think non-compete agreements shouldn’t be enforceable if you get fired or laid off. If I quit that’s one thing, but if I’m so bad at my job that you fire me, you want me working for your competitors.
@@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist just stop doing any work when you come in until the situation improves. They’ll either fire you, give you money to do nothing, or improve the situation.
NDAs are routine and necessary when doing business. They are used to maintain confidentiality when that is important. Sometimes people try to abuse them for some nefarious purpose, but usually that is enenforceable. Othertimes terms may be too broad for no good reason, that would be unenforceable as well. If there is or was something wrong about what was going on with an employer that you had an NDA with, you are allowed to inform the relevant authorities without penalty. But you could not go and write a book about it instead or something like that though, that is the difference.
@11:48 A good example is that hello can you hear me now Verizon guy if anybody remember always new ads then there was no new ads from him from a whole year and then all of a sudden I could be wrong but he appear on AT&T ada and same thing on the T-Mobile
NDA's are pretty routine when two businesses decide to explore collaboration on something, too. Before getting into the weeds to find out whether or not they can mesh well, they'll need to sign NDA's to ensure that no confidential information being shared gets re-shared elsewhere.
i have 3 signed NDA because I grew up with parents of some now famous young adults. I had to sign NDA to have special (family) perks related to their career Their chosen paths require strict access to them from the general public , to keep them and their privacy safe, their agencies require NDA pertaining to the guys
As someone in manufacturing who signs several NDA's a year: It's almost always required to take a job. It's often required to even start talking about taking a job. Did you think we just do it for funsies?
I can see a limited NDA where you don't talk about the engineering and production of certain products the company makes, but not an all-inclusive NDA where you can't talk about anything that goes on there even if it's illegal.
We had to sign an NDA to receive the 16 years of severance pay after being let go due to restructuring ❗️I consider this blackmail ✅ They restructured everyone 59.5 years and older❗️✅🤬 Can never say anything negative about this supplier of hydraulic parts. 🤮
@@BillySBC they didn’t call it a firing but restructuring. Firing is with cause. Let go because of $$$ Let all the talented ppl go for some college kids at 1/3 the pay. 2 years later they closed the business and are selling the building. The division did over 30 million with up to 160 employees.
@@equallawandorder5393 If they compensate you, it's enforceable! If the laid you off 6 months before retirement to avoid paying you, they are in big trouble.
If you do contract engineering in high tech, you are going to sign an NDA (often a mutual NDA). Some tech is protected by patents but that means revealing what you are doing and often good technical can come up with a way around that if they know what you are doing. So, if the tech is hard to discover (like SW or process) it is protected as a trade secret. If you contract someone to do something, most likely they will see some of your secrets, hence the NDA. Also employees have to sign NDAs for the same reason.
I’ve come across them when working on projects with companies, to protect the companies’ trade secrets. I signed one, where the mere existence of the project was confidential, in addition to all of the technical details.
Working in aviation security I think it's quite obvious what mine covers. Ironically one of our flights was routinely put on a gate at the end of the terminal where you could walk right up to the perimeter fence and watch the security procedures going on. We had people do that quite a bit who'd quickly leave when they saw us calling it in. That airline doesn't fly to my airport any more thanks to the pandemic. I do kinda miss it.
I worked for a plastic manufacturing company, doing research and development and designing, that routinely did business for large cooperations; anywhere from the US government to the NFL and so on. The employees, including myself, were not even allowed to bring our cellphones in the facility. And if I recall correctly, it's been 13 years since I worked there, in my employment contract it stated that I COULD NOT work for any company or competitor for at least 2 years after I left them. But yeah.... BTW, the 100 bill is tucked in nicely behind the yellow sign over Steve's right shoulder. He's getting clever.
Over the years I have signed a few NDA's - When I became a member of the Department of Defense, I HAD to sign an NDA to get the job regarding access and information I came in contact with and any books I write have to be reviewed before publishing. Secondly in a more relaxed hobby of photography, I sign an NDA that allows me to preview and provide feedback on new cameras and Lenses, I get access to new gear by keeping my mouth publically shut and report any issues to the company.
I used to work in a advertisement agency, everyone had an sign an NDA, unless HR forgot about it, in order to protect our clients. It was mostly about making sure our clients competitors do not learn about what sale is coming soon.
40 years ago where I worked my boss created a logo for a product he was going to market, he had me sign and date a hand drawn representation along with his signature and date. He then took an envelope sealed it, took it to the Post Office where they stamped and dated the envelope. The whole procedure was to create a place and date in time, for that product and logo. The product did well.
Hey Steve , My Dad had to sign a NDA , when he was honorably discharged from the Army . It was for a period of 30 years . I often wondered why . But he was very vague anytime we had a conversation about his service in the Pacific during WW2 . Any thoughts on that ? Thanks ,,,,,
I had an ex-employer attempt to get me to sign a bunch of these when i gave them my 2 weeks. However, they were not offering any severance! No leverage, no signature.
I am reminded of a true story that was made into a movie. I believe it was titled “spark of genius”. Between Ford and a inventor. About intermittent windshield wipers.
Good luck getting basically any technical job (a programmer, IT department, hardware dev... etc) without signing an NDA at the company in question. Which mostly exists to be able to easily sue employees that leak private company data to the public, or the competitors.
Some also want to be able to sweep up the next billion dollar idea born in the home of some programmer originally as his hobby project to learn a new language
@@forsakenquery well, I don't have access to any customers data, but i am sure out competitors would love to fetch our source code repo and other company assets i may have access to. Handing stuff like that out would have massive implications for the employer, so its perfectly understandable that me handing this kind of data out absolutely should have massive implications for me as an employee. NDAs are, indeed, totally understandable and make perfect sense in this case.
Sometimes you have little alternative. In the Army in 1971, I was ordered to get on a truck then a plane, then a huey chopper, and dropped off on a firebase in the middle of the jungle. I soon learned that the Ho Chi Minh trail was just to the east of our position. After 4 days of no sleep, ringing ears, and total dilerium, I got a ticket home (30 cal FMJ to the leg). Upon my return to my unit in Japan, I was ordered to sign a NDA, or bunk in the brig until I did. The NDA gave the US govt a chattle mortgage on all my possessions, earnings, and furure earnings as a penalty for disclosure.
I'm not sure if such a contract would be binding. What is the consideration the government provided you in the contract that you weren't already entitled to? Additionally, was the contract voluntarily agreed to or coerced? Criminally they might be able to get you for releasing classified information, but I doubt the legality and enforceability of such a contract that they mandated you to sign after the fact if it was done under threat or if it didn't provide a new benefit that you weren't already due.
@@Robertz1986 release of that kind of information is prosecuted as an NDA violation. If released from service, it would be outside the UCMJ. I presume because I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
@@DumbledoreMcCracken The issue is that a Non Disclosure Agreement is a civil contract. The government likes NDAs because they don't require laws or criminal prosecutions and thus have a much easier burden of proof, etc. The problem though is that, as civil contracts, they generally must meet all the criteria of a normal civil contract, same as any contract written by anyone. This means that firstly it must be agreed to voluntarily by both parties. If the government threatens you into signing it, that technically renders it invalid and unenforceable if you can convince a court or jury that this pressure was applied. The more glaring problem though is that all contracts *must*, without exception, provide "consideration" to both parties. For example, if you and I each sign a contract saying that you and I agree that you will pay me $10,000 or you forfeit your house to me, and I take that to court, that is unenforceable because it isn't a contract. The question the courts will ask is, what in the contract do I provide of value to you in exchange for your promise? Fun fact about contract law, is that to be enforceable and binding, the contract must require both parties to provide something of value to the other. This is not optional. Consideration from one party without consideration from the other is actually considered a gift, and unenforceable, even when both sides have signed and agreed. The government cannot make you sign a civil contract under threat, and the contract that you sign must require them to provide something to you of value, and that something must not be something that you were otherwise entitled to from them. Signing NDAs when you join is perfectly accepted in voluntary government employment, including the military, in exchange for voluntarily accepting the job and the pay, benefits, and opportunities that go with it, but after the fact you can't force someone to sign a binding NDA without providing them something of value not provided in their previous contract. The government has an alternative, which is prosecution for revealing classified information, and that doesn't need your consent, but that means a trial and consequences based on legislation and proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not made up terms written in secret.
Back in the day I serviced heavy portable rock crushing equipment. We were scheduled to do the maintenance on some rented crushers. Mid way through the project, when it became known that it was a "Walmart" job site (in the excavation and grading stage), all technicians were required to not only sign an NDA, but have a hair drug test come back clean to even enter the site. It was "Walmart" that was requiring the drug tests and the NDA. Even the main company did not drug test. 3 out of 4 technicians declined to participate in that job site. I certainly declined.
NDAs are quite common in acquisitions and mergers, to prevent damage that can be done and/or fraud committed, if info is leaked prior to public and/or internal announcements. I've worked at places where this was common practice and places where it was not... the places that didn't use them had far worse morale, due to employees hearing important information externally, long before any internal announcement was made.
I've used NDAs countless times when approaching private venture capital to help fund a business proposition. And I've signed quite a few Non-competes in the course of my career too.
What about an NDA and NCA for proprietary idea and/or process. How can that be done? What's it's sunset? What's it's weaknesses? I have something never seen before and I need to protect it to the maximum.
Army made me sign one to get discharge papers (DD214). As a translator, you deal with them a lot. For example in Japan, I had to sign one before translating the written driver’s test.
There is one thing I've wondered about NDA's. I have heard that in some areas if you reject a settlement offer and then after a trial are ultimately awarded an amount less than the offer you can be penalized for wasting the court's time. How would an NDA in the settlement offer affect that? I could see myself in some situations rejecting any offer with an NDA and think it would be unfair to be penalized for that.
I am not a lawyer; that said this sounds like something that would only happen in the US if your lawsuit was frivolous. For instance, you sued someone for slipping on the ice on their property and they were like, “here’s $25k to go away,” but you figured you could make more at trial and at trial it was shown you didn’t actually suffer any significant damage from your fall AND that you failed to exercise due care when it was obviously icy, so in short you are wasting the court’s time, THEN they find out you were offered a settlement, the court may require you to pay for their time.
There is the NDA as an employee/contractor as well. As a stagehand working on a show for a magician/illusionist, I had to sign an NDA that I wouldn't ever say anything about how any of the tricks worked or I couldn't work that show. In tech, I've signed them when I've been shown "in progress" work from another company, and they were standard for contractors that worked for us, that they weren't allowed to talk about the details of anything they did while working for us.
I have worked a the same corporation for over+30 years. They are in every state in the U.S.A. and a few other countries. They are the leader and largest company in the field. They have "restructured" several times to stay #1. During these "restructuring" phases, I have been given a pink slip three times. Each time they had included a non-complete clause in the severance package (one week's pay for every year with the company). It was a non-complete clause for five (5) years and anywhere they do business. I have done the following to these "severance package contracts": 1) Refused to sign. 2) (second time) struckout the non-compete section and requested them to sign it beforeI sign. 3) (3rd time) I was told I could NOT strikeout the non-compete clause. So, I added (wrote in), If unable to work in this field (business field), (company) will compensate me one year's salary, including cost of living and average yearly salary increases, for every year I cannot work in my profession (field name) due to non-compete clause. That was 14 years ago and I am still working there, getting one of the highest raise and bonuses each year for my work.
I used to work in film and at the time I was dating a guy who worked in aerospace engineering. It was very fun discussing the fact that we couldn't discuss our jobs. I worked with a lot of talent and regularly touch movies before they were released. So my NDA's came with monetary penalties if I didn't comply and lack of job if I didn't sign. My ex worked with classified documents.
I had to sign an NDA to participate on a board of ebay users both buyers and sellers. The purpose of was to provide feedback on proposed changes to buying and selling, and for ideas to make changes to current rules to solve problems encountered. No money, just input. A later CEO eliminated the program and that was that. The NDA was to prevent ideas and future changes from becoming public and was a good way to prevent that.
There have been stories recently about many chain fast food joints having minimum wage employees sign Non compete statements. Problem is that even if they would ultimately fail in court, how is a minimum wage worker going to be able to afford a lawyer to fight such a civil case? That and certain celebrity and political personalities that make everyone sign an NDA basically because they will see what jerks they are. Still a lot of tell all books being written.
In the UK non-compete employment agreements are unenforceable as they are considered to be a restraint of trade! It is known as taking Gardening Leave and is normally included in employment agreements with USA companies; who do know that they are unenforceable. Unfortunately, most employees do not know this.
@steve Lehto : Have you ever heard of a NDA being required for a severance package to prevent a person talking about why they are leaving an organization? Example: Person A is fired from a church organization A for "reasons." But before person A is let go, they must sign a NDA to receive a severance package that prevents person A from being able to talk about it for x amount of time or undertiminitate amount of time. However, Church organization A can give their own "story" for the reason. Even if this reason is not entirely accurate.
I've signed 2 non-disclosure agreements, one was very specific. That one demanded I sign an NDA before working on a project in which I was going to learn who was being laid off. That NDA made sense since it was clear what information was to be kept secret. Once the lay off occurred there would be no further need to keep it secret. The second I had to sign in order to get my money when I was laid off. It was a needless agreement. I knew no company secrets, so I signed it. If I was a higher level employee it might have been a problem.
I work in IT, and have signed NDA's because I see all sorts of priveledged information. Everything from Trade Secrets to lists of HR data. It's pretty much expected when your job ensures you're going to be looking at businesses (and some Governmental) most private sensitive data. I have also willingly signed a Non-compete, because they were giving me a boat load of money and I'd already started working in a completely unrelated industry. It was like found money (because it was attached to a buyout offer).
We regularly have to sign NDAs related to our work our employer. As part of my job I am exposed or have access to a lot of specialized proprietary and confidential technical intellectual property. The NDAs are a normal part of business in the high tech sector. In addition to the personal NDAs, there are also inter-company NDAs. Because companies collaborate with other firms, the inter-company NDAs provide that each company agrees to respect the confidentiality of the other company's proprietary and confidential information provided the information disclosed is properly marked as such. If an employee of company A discloses the proprietary information of company B, then company B can take action against company A. Company A would also presumably take some kind of disciplinary or potentially even legal action against the employee.
The industries I worked in during my career are so competitive that an NDA, and non-compete are standard requirements to get hired. They are usually enforceable because they are very narrow and specific about trade secrets, technical information, and products. Gossip and work conditions are not even mentioned. When I have been laid off, I've gotten either compensation for the time I cannot work in the industry, or a release.
You can always negotiate your way out of them. I write software for a few companies that wanted NDAs and non-competes signed, but as I mostly resell a similar service so I told them no. I took a 20% pay cut but now they can't fire me, and I have literally no work to do ever.
20 years in the U.S. military and an additional 10 years working for a U.S. military contractor. I have signed a lot of NDAs because I've dealt with information the military doesn't want me to disclose to the public. What was in it for me? Employment.
While sometimes that's enough compensation, it might set a really bad precedent. I would accept that, if the NDA covered regular obligations about the job. But what if you caught the company doing something potentially illegal, after having signed an NDA? Is the mere fact you were employed enough compensation for staying silent? In that case, it seems like keeping people quiet from providing evidence under the threat of being criminally implicated, for example if the company tried to say you were an accessory to the crime. If my NDA covers something that serious, best believe I would be negotiating for much higher salary. Simply having a job isn't enough at a certain point, when you've been actively made involved without prior knowledge. By the very nature of signing an NDA, you have to sign BEFORE knowing what it is you cannot disclose. If it covers trade secrets and other information you could reasonably assume they would keep private, then being employed is sufficient. If they force you to sign an NDA and then admit to huge amounts of fraud, a reasonable person would not expect that. By signing that NDA there's now a paper trail that makes you potentially liable, and you were not allowed to negotiate with full knowledge of what the job entailed.
NDAs are also very common in industry when you are visiting a supplier or customer facility. These are often signed by the company you work for but small business owners etc... may need to sign them in order to be allowed access for whatever purpose they need. Depending on the industry just being in the facility can expose you or give you access to a lot of trade secrets or other information.
As a condition of employment for software houses, an NDA is standard, covering trade secrets, source code, client list, client data, future projects, etc.
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I remember a Texas judge ruling on a non compete agreement that if the previous employer wanted to prevent someone from working in the industry they would have to continue to pay him while he wasn't working.
Very unusual outcome.
Often referred to as "on-call rate".
I'm not disclosure agreement at a non-compete agreement are two different things.
@@jrhenry830every one I've signed was both
@@jrhenry830 I mean, non disclosure and non-compete when part of an employment, are usually part of the employment agreement, rather than separate contracts. Doesn't mean they can't be separate contracts, just that they all tend to be put together in one document in practice.
Something a lot of people don't know is that an NDA doesn't keep you from speaking with law enforcement or any government regulatory agency. Thanks for clearing that up.
Agreed. I heard an employer get angry at a former employee who disclosed information while a witness testifying in court. "But he signed an NDA!"
You can be compelled to talk but that does not clear you from breach of contract.
@@BrianBoniMakes Negative. If a court orders you to speak, they will breach the NDA, not you.
Yeah. In practice, no. I was denied a promotion for filing a legal brief. Management, flatout, admitted it. Going to court can take 7 years, by then you are a homeless hobo or moved on as a loser, albeit with a home.
Ah yes that would be why they have an even stronger NDA you never heard of
I got a great story about this. My previous employer was a naive, conniving, really terrible business owner. He operated a low voltage company that was the largest installer of Notifier Fire Alarms in the South East. If you're in this industry, you may have heard of him. He's pretty much blacklisted now. Anyway, one day one of the sales guys gets fed up with his constant renegotiation of bonuses so he quits. The owner had an attorney that he hired when he met him at a strip club. Yeah. A week after the salesman quit, he passes out these "NDAs." I put that in quotes because I actually read it, knowing the competency of his attorney. Sure enough he had stuff in there like if we go to court, no matter who wins the defendant has to pay all court and attorney fees. There was absolutely no considerations and it was a completely illegal document. However, if we were to keep our jobs, EVERYONE in the company had to sign it. So I crossed out large portions of the NDA and inserted my own language. I initialed them and took them to the attorney who signed it off on the spot. I don't think he read the part where it said if we go to court not only did they pay all fees, but also owed me compensation for my trouble, even if I lost. I signed it after that and quit a week later, starting my own business. Dumbest thing I've ever witnessed in a company.
So did they ever go to court and have to pay you per the changes you made to the document?
@@covid19alpha2variantturboc7 Nope. They filed for chapter 11 a month later.
I had one employer try to get me to sign a non compete for like 2 years, covering *almost* every continent by name, and was so vague that I could not have worked as a game programmer. It was completely unenforceable (Canada), but the fact that they tried made me turn down the job.
We had a local sandwich place that tried to force its *delivery drivers* to sign a non-compete agreement, meaning that they couldn't deliver for any other takeout place. The state attorney general stepped in and sued them to make them stop.
Good call. It's usually better to refuse to sign (unless they make it worth your while) than to sign in the hopes of it being deemed unenforceable later.
I signed a non-compete and a NDA (I worked in industrial design). There are ways aroud them.
California, North Dakota, and Oklahoma flat out ban non-compete agreements. Biden signed an executive order July 9, 2021 telling the FTC to get medieval on companies who try to use non-compete agreements unfairly.
The last non-compete I signed was pretty rational. For 12 mo I couldn't work for a direct competitor doing a largely similar job. But employees hired 18mo later were being forced to sign new non-competes that effectively said "you can't work in IT for 36 months". That was obviously unenforceable, though the company could still try to sue and make your life miserable. A friend quit after working about 5 years and did go to work for a direct competitor doing EXACTLY the same job; I asked about the non-compete and she said the new employer included in her contract that they would indemnify her from all damages if our employer came after her and handle her legal defense, as well. But the new company claimed ours wouldn't dare try it knowing the indemnification was in place since the only value in attempting to sue for such a ridiculous non-compete was to intimidate employees and with a bottomless pit of corporate lawyers available to do the defense it wouldn't work.
The company also sent around the new non-compete to everybody demanding we who had been there a while sign the new one to override the wimpy old one. I just tossed the demands in the trash and they didn't push it. They kept sending the same "here, sign this and return it" notice about every 3mo for a year and then dropped it.
@@99PMoon "Ways around them" still doesn't mean I wanted to work for an employer who thought it was ok to try to use an illegal non compete.
Apparently it's a thing for landlord/tenant issues now too. I caught my last landlord trying to charge me for SEVENTEEN HOURS of cleaning on a 800sq ft apt that was already clean. They had the audacity to ask me to sign a form saying I would not share negative opinions of them before they'd give the rest of my deposit back.
Took it to small claims & their tone changed pretty quick. Settled almost immediately, gave me all they owed plus all court costs. 😂
That's because that deposit is protected and does not belong to the landlord unless they prove that you were negligent. Guess they could not prove that.
I rented a Condo in a upscale neighborhood the roofer screwed up the manager asked me to fix it.
I worked on several units, then asked to be paid before working on the rest.
Manager refused, I would need to try to collect from the roofer who didn't finish.
I heard the guy who scammed them on the roofing was a friend of someone, and he spent most of the cash to buy a new truck instead of materials and paying a crew.
As the manager wasn't going to pay me I stopped doing free work.
🚫🆓🔨
Later they refused an exit walk thru/ inspection, they just sent a maid.
The company had the audacity on top of not paying me for work completed, to bill me for cleaning an already clean unit.
The housecleaner admitted I can see your GF just stayed up all night cleaning this to show the manager they aren't coming, and this cleaning doesn't even need done...
🧼🧹
but I still want to get paid.
SMH
One older lady, possibly senile at times, rented a house W land for 🐎 &🐂
She knocked on the front door unannounced and when a kid opened it she pushed her way in, and started looking around, CONFUSED, I live here why is your stuff in my house?
You don't remember renting it to my family?
This drove his mom to quickly find another place to move to.
Later older woman tried to keep the entire deposit claiming that one hair found in a bathroom behind the 🚽 was worthy of ~$2K
See you in court.
Her attorney had to write a letter that both said while she thinks she deserves your money, I know we wouldn't win in court so here is a check for your full deposit.
This is the problem with so many of these cases. They try to bargain for something they want, maybe even legitimately want, but then try to ransom your own property or leverage debts they already have incurred, and say "I'll live up to my legal or contractual obligations, or won't openly break the law, if you offer me something I'm not entitled to". It is blackmail, and illegal in many cases, yet they don't have the comprehension that it isn't theirs to negotiate with.
@@DVankeuren they most certainly couldn't. On the contrary, I could prove the place was clean, and I'm better condition than when I signed the lease.
Only thing I forgot to do was replace an air filter in the furnace (which the lease said I had to do & I 100% spaced it). They charged me $75 for that 🙄
I worked a a company that got bought out. We were bringing in money hand over fist, but the new owners were actively taking away bonuses and we were reduced to a few cents per year as raises. When they started hemorrhaging good staff they tried to get us to sign non compete contracts. It was a very niche market and signing would effectively kick us out of our careers for a few years. We'd heard from other branches that it was coming so we weren't surprised when we had a meeting and some smooth HR type passed the contracts out at a meeting and told us to sign them. She got VERY annoyed and snippy when we took the time to read them. (never a good sign when they don't want you to read it.) In effect we'd be bound to them. If we quit or were fired we'd be locked out of our careers for half a decade. The compensation they offered amounted to less than a week's pay. I was on the verge of quitting myself and knew I could have a job in days if I did. I was getting rather outspoken, so I asked the HR person, what the purpose was in having us sign. She replied that it was to prevent us from going to a competitor and taking our customers with us. I then asked what would happen if we refused to sign. She rather smugly told me I'd be fired. That's when I told her I couldn't speak for anyone else but if they fired me for not signing I would immediately go to a competitor and take my customers with me. She got really quiet after that. Some signed. One guy admitted to writing "Donald Duck" on the signature line and handed it back in. I worked there for another year or so before I finally quit but I never signed.
Yeah, some people really dont think.
Not only that, those kind of contracts do not hold up in court, you cannot block someone from getting a job, thats illegal.
did you take your customers with you
@@reapsgrimley only the good ones.
I'm an ex-Apple engineer, and I've signed NDAs for each project I worked on, together with an overall NDA promising to preserve Apple's trade secrets. They're also quite routine here in the Silicon valley for any prospective employee so that the employer can talk about work in progress that's not public information yet.
Louis Rossmann wants to know your location
So what's the next big thing?
I worked for Salesforce and we just had 1 NDA / non compete. I even got an amendment to it because it actually tried to take the IP rights for anything I did at home on my own personal computer on my own time (remote job). So I typed up a paragraph and had it signed by a Director and HR that amended it to only apply if it was a software that was competing with a Salesforce project
Why would I sign one? Because they paid really well and if I didn't I wouldn't get a job. Honestly I've never worked in a tech job that didn't require it.
Heck I've worked in a factory making steel products as a welder and had to sign an NDA
I worked with a company supplying Apple and working R&D on project for Apple. I never worked with a tech company that didn't have an NDA. My current position on a cutting edge tech project not only do I have NDAs up the wazzu, we have ever supplier and vendor that we discuss any technical specs with have to sign NDAS.
@@deusvult6920 what company?
When I was 18 I went to work at a boarding and show dog kennel in California. I was live in help, and I was supposed to travel to dog shows with the handlers. It was the worst working experience of my life. I ended up suing them and they settled but I had to sign an NDA. This place still advertises consistently in help wanted sections of industry publications. They didn't want me to write or tell anyone about the experience. I was 18, they gave me $25k, so I signed it.
I owned a coffee concession stand and attended a few of the dog shows. I will be nice and generous here when I say that "dog show people" are the most unique, eclectic and eccentric group of people I have ever met. The friendliest shows were the horse shows. Horse people seem super different than dog people.
Sooner or later they will be exposed, and if not how are you hurt by them now?
I sign NDAs all the time to test video games in development. Testing and feed back to developers of the game before its final release, which is often different from the version I test. Improvements are made.
Yeah, I was going to say, I've signed a bunch of NDAs to be part of closed beta testing of various video games. If you don't sign, you don't get to do the testing, end of story. And it makes sense for them to put NDAs in place, because otherwise beta testers could put videos and screenshots up and talk crap about how bad the game is, which would be bad publicity and largely unfair since the game isn't finished yet.
I never thought of that one, but seems appropriate.
I subscribe to a youtube channel of a content creator for a video game I play. The creator has an NDA with the game developer that lets him see upcoming content for the game. It allows them to get feedback but it also allows the creator to have his videos ready to drop the same day as the new content. Both sides win because the developer gets more people playing the game and the creator gets more views because he has videos talking about the newest content and helping players take advantage of it.
It's where they probably show up in most people's lives these days
And it's where they make the most sense
Some point in the vid reminded me of review embargoes.
I've signed plenty of them, but in my industry, they always come at the beginning of a project and say "I pinky-swear not to say anything about this movie/TV show/game until it's officially announced and I get the all-clear from the licensor." For us, they're to prevent media leaks.
The kind Steve's talking about are like mob hush money payoffs, but with lawyers doing the threatening instead of leg-breaking goons.
i prefer leg breaking goons, they atleast honest pple, lawyers on the other hand....
I had an employer ask me to sign a non compete agreement. I told them no that I would be willing to sign a NDA but my career was due to my college degree not anything they did. They dropped it entirely. I guess the revenue I brought into the company was worth not worrying too much about if I stated my own company. It was a good bet for them since I have been there 25 years.
Díd You demanded partnership?
If I’m so bad at my job that you want to fire me, you want me working for your competitors.
@@themecoptera9258 That's very similar to advice I heard about cheating spouses.
"The best revenge you can get on someone who steals your wife/husband is to let them have her/him."
I've signed hundreds of NDAs and Non-competes over the years as a software developer. I'm not sure how common they are for salary employees but they are extremely common as a contractor/sub-contractor.
That might not be legal anymore. Actually, I know for a fact that it isn't. If you're a contractor and not an employee, how does "your client" prove they are not your employer? The fact that you can and maybe do have other clients! What, that's forbidden by the contract they forced you to sign?
GOOD NEWS: You're due both civil relief for the legally mandated rights and compensation that have been denied you! Not so good for them, they're facing prosecution for criminal hiring practices and tax evasion. Unless of course they wanna either re-negotiate your contract or hire you outright and offer you enough money to forget about what wasn't done in the past. In either case you're in a strong negotiating position if you're reasonable.
@@knghtbrd As programmer/consultant I sign them all the time. They do not ask me to not work for other companies just not to reveal the things covered by the NDA.
@@knghtbrd Well they aren't my employer since we work on a contract basis. They have some specific project for which they need developers and usually speaking there is a set of contracts for each project that each contractor must sign. Sometimes I have to bid on the project and sometimes they just tell me their budget. In the end it is up to me if I take the project or not. Most salary employees do not have much, if any, choice in the projects they work on. The NDA's basically tell me I can't go around telling people important details about the project and the non-compete tells me I can't work for someone else doing that exact same thing again for x number of years(typically 2-5). They are all reasonable and common.
An example of a non-compete that I signed was for a pet food company and although most of what they needed to be done was solving standard business problems the combination was unique to them and their industry. The non-compete basically said that I couldn't work for another pet food company building a system like that for 2 years. It was very specific to their industry and wasn't a broad "you can't code for anyone for 2 years". Another time was for a large cryptocurrency exchange but everything I did for them was unique to their industry and the non-compete was much more broad. It still didn't prevent me from doing other work in the industry per say but did prevent me from working for other exchanges.
I also imagine that the cast and crew of movies in production are required to sign NDAs in order to keep details of plot and characters from spoiling the movie before its release.
Surprising how many scripts, pictures from sets, etc get leaked though xD (I'm sure some leaks are on purpose for publicity's sake tho)
I was once asked to watch a pilot TV show and provide some feedback. As you can imagine, an NDA was requested before they hit play. Fairly standard.
The BBC reported that casting agents and their clients were being asked to sign NDAs before the rôle was described or a script shown.
The Bond films get past this by using old scripts to gauge an actor's ability. So, a Goldfinger script might be used for auditions for character A, whilst Thunderball script would be used for auditions for character B's role.
@@qwerty_artist All productions I've worked on the last few years now come with your name watermarked on all documents and digital distributions.
I worked for the federal government. I had two types of NDA. For security purposes I had to promise not to disclose classified defense information. Penalties included forfeiture of all proceeds from any disclosure. The second area included government procurement. I had access to privileged acquisition information, which I could not disclose to anyone. Both cases also had federal laws prohibiting disclosure. My understanding was that the civil penalties for disclosure were easier and quicker to purse than criminal sanctions.
Change your name to a politician, especially...Hillary.
I went through the same thing as a cryptographic maintenance technician. The NDAs for military security are more or less legitimate and serve a valid purpose.
I had to sign an NDA for a company that made removable hard drives and they didn't allow immigrants to work there. The NSA also came out to the site once. I was doing basic assembly and had no knowledge of electronics so I'm not sure what I'd be able to tell anyone. I don't think saying that I put random bits of stuff together would have been revealing state secrets, and if security was so important, why were they hiring random people through temp agencies?
True for the other side as well. As a gov't contractor, all our proposals have NDAs attached to them and all technology that we procure from subcontractors come with their NDAs. I'm constantly coming across them (well, really our legal department, but I digress).
@@Primalxbeast Depends. You may not have worked directly with classified materials. Actually, if you don't have a security clearance you would not have been allowed access tobclassified stuff period.
The NDAs in this case is more of an OPSEC issue. You yourself might not be able to tell much, but information you disseminate can be combined with other information. Add these all up and it could cause actual harm.
Ben's mostly hidden behind the low flying owls sign.
I wonder if the owls signed an NDA to not disclose his location. Only see the merest hint. Wonder if that violates the NDA and will Steve take up the case??
"Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?"
"No, I cannot. A prior commitment explicitly limits what I might say in public."
I have heard that agreements concerning criminal activity cannot be enforced by courts; I wish someone would discuss whether and to what extent this is true. One might imagine a worker who has witnessed criminal behavior (dumping hazardous materials, for example) and the company encouraging him to sign a NDA to keep the act secret. It seems to me that courts should NOT enforce such conspiracy to commit crimes.
Refusal to answer could be obstruction of justice, and you could be sues for violation of the NDA. Depends on local laws.
Given the obligatory "It depends" caveat on all legal questions.... attorney client privilege is very much like an NDA. And as such, can not be used to conceal information about criminal activity if subpoenaed.
Laws trump everything else.
@@ptrinch "Very much like" is not at all the same as actually being.
Most states have laws that contracts "against public policy" is unenforceable. Illegality of the action is a common public policy that makes it illegal. So illegal acts would void the NDA.
BTW, that is why Trump could not have White House employees sign NDAs, as it was against public policy. It is public policy that full disclosure and openness is the best for government.
@ Lehto’s law I appreciate the variety of meaty conversation content you consistently provide. Thank you 🤔❤️🇺🇸
Judo NDA: Years ago, a Beltway Bandit firm illegally withheld my last pay until I signed a ridiculous NDA. Personnell was apologetic and agreed it was likely not enforceable. I asked to make it more ridiculous. They did and I signed, "under duress and coercion." The dumb CEO thought he won. We laughed at toilet paper they never dared enforce.
That's pretty funny
" Acme Rocket Sled Company " * spits coffee out involuntary *
We need a job and they will not hire without an NDA. It's their way or the highway.
Have you violated an NDA by saying this?
This person nailed it. : ) I’ve signed several. They are not necessarily in perpetuity. Often 7 years or so after termination of business.
Depends on the contents of the NDA! Trump made EVERYONE sign one that was so broad, courts keep finding them unenforceable!
@@primoroy EVERY politician does.
@@primoroy Dude, seriously? Govenrment jobs are obviously different, controlled by statute.
In the beginning of my regional management team experience I was working for a major retailer that was going to change direction in a major shakeup. We were flown in to Texas on a Sunday met that night and were told that changes were coming but before they would speak about them, we all had to sign NDA’s if you didn’t you would be removed from the room and a flight would be arranged for you to return home on Monday and your employment was terminated as of that Monday. Being young and with two young children at home I signed they also threatened that if you signed and spoke that they would come after you personally. This was the first time that I felt I had been held up at pen point….
Another great video Steve!
As a vendor to manufacturers I routinely need to sign a NDA in order to do business with them. In my industry this is common practice as these manufacturers need to protect their intellectual property. What's in it for me is that I get an opportunity to sell products to these manufacturers. The manufacturers benefit is that I'm legally obligated not to share their "secret sauce" with the public or their competitors.
You don't work in China, Chinese companies regularly steal other companies intellectual property then sell it cheaper.
I bought cheap new phone online, I received an iPhone (6?) Clone for $19
It even has a blanked out hole where the 🍎 Logo should be.
i've signed hundreds of NDA's in my employment from my employer and most clients. i also had to report a vendor to my employers legal team after discovering one of our products on display in their public lobby in violation of the NDA they agreed to.
Thumps up for the Kimi t-shirt.
On the subject of a Non-compete: Does it matter if you quit or were fired?
I've signed many NDAs, in Canada. My favorite was US companies that didn't know the local laws, my lawyer would say "sign it quick before they figure out the mistake." Always sign them before doing the work. If asked to sign one after the deal is done I'd ask for something in return. An NDA falls out of effect if you aren't being paid, ridiculous conditions are thrown out, and you can't be prevented from working in your field.
The problem is when they are using them to abuse employees. My wife took a job as a software trainer and was asked to sign an NDA that was more onerous than anything I've seen as a tech sector director. It said she couldn't work in the same industry anywhere on the planet for 100 years. You sign them because you're worried about eating and paying the bills.
Oh god yeah, Its hilarious when a company tries to enforce them up here. A judge would take one look at it and throw it out. Really if you as a company are expanding to a new market and want to have either NDA's or NCA's make sure they are enforceable in the market you are trying to expand to
Why not 1000 years or until your great, great grand kids death. Before signing cross out the stupid stuff!
I've had three employers that force us to sign NDAs as terms of employment. I felt it was stupid because they were tiny businesses that had *NOTHING* unique or proprietary to "discuss."
@@IkLms11 The one business told me their shipping method was proprietary. They use UPS and FedEx software like everyone else - not exactly proprietary, lol.
But if they have nothing worth discussing then it cost you nothing to sign the NDA?
@@SilverMe2004 Except that you possibly open yourself up to unintended consequences. You have no idea what could constitute a disclosure. This is similar to "If you have nothing to hide or have done nothing wrong, just let them search your property".
Thanks for elucidating this topic. More importantly, you have allowed my brain to harken back to those early years of my life when I spent hours upon hours glued to the TV watching Loony Tunes and Merry Melodies, a large portion of which featured the Acme Rocket Sled and other dependable Acme products. Meep Meep
Thanks for that explanation in terms that I could keep up with and understand. Good work. All the best.
I would say, but I signed an NDA. Edit: It was part of a material breach of contract claim. We agreed not to file a lawsuit and they agreed not to charge the contract cancellation fees (about $30K). Part of the NDA was not posting negative reviews, etc. ...They ended up going bankrupt a few years later.
They told me that if I signed the DNR I wouldn’t be working anywhere ever again
@1 Trillon Dollar Coin do not resuscitate...
I signed an NDA as part of my employment some years ago. The reason is that I had access to confidential records belonging to a vast number of individuals.
Heather, whenever I think your wisdom has reached it's peek, you always manage to "rise" above it and new knowledge blooms like a flour....oops i meant flower 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Try working in tech and engineering. A lot of work falls under NDAs as part of your employment contract or project contracts.
And if 90% of said no to NDA they'd stop using them or stop competing on the bleeding edge. I've got no problem keeping my trap shut on proprietary or classified work but protecting the "secret" process of make .45 cents of plastic cost $200 isn't covered no matter what they want.
NDA's are also a big thing in Hollywood, I'm pretty sure that every movie and television contract for everyone involved in pretty much every piece of media from Hollywood has most likely multiple NDA's baked right into the contract
@@rynnziolkowski4642 that makes total sense also. Don't want the plot twists leaked.
Thank you for bringing up that a NDA has to give some sort of consideration to both parties. I was presented one from a group of passengers (Hollywood). $5 million penalty if I talked about anything that went on during the flight. We as a crew, politely declined and recommended they find alternative transportation.
Jeffrey Epstein chartered the plane?
LOL, "$5 million penalty" if you talked about anything that happened on your flight, how the flying crap would they even enforce that?
@@DanknDerpyGamer Bingo. It was a non enforceable NDA and I told our office to tell them to pack sand. Their position was that they have been burned by previous pilots, limo drivers giving out plot secrets etc. My position was, too F'ing bad, take the bus. We kinda banned thet type of client shorty after.
I loved the thorough use of the rocket sled analogy. Wile E. Coyote never gave up after one attempt either.
The military uses NDAs to protect classified information. I had to sign one once because a system I worked on was responsible for messaging traffic between missile silos. I rarely ever saw any of that, but there was the possibility that I might.
While working as part of an outsourced design center, I've routinely seen mutual non-disclosure agreements- while details vary depending on the client, generally the design center agrees to not disclose the client's designs and trade secrets, and in return the client agrees to not disclose any concepts created before an actual purchase order is signed. The Design Center keeps the information compartmentalized from other clients, and the clients don't get to take the rough concepts to take them to fabricators to cut the center out of the loop.
Thanks Steve, I learned a lot about these that I never even thought about.
I signed a non compete for a company when I was in the insurance industry. When I left to go to a competing firm (8 years later) the new company reviewed the non compete I had signed and concluded it was unenforceable. They agreed to hold me harmless for legal costs and any damages awarded if I was sued. They told me to move over as much business as I could. I joined the new firm, quickly took away several lucrative accounts and was sued immediately. 3 years later and after a lot of grief there was a settlement on the courthouse steps. Although my now employer did cover all the costs I still had to deal with the process. Worst experience of my life and I caution anyone offered a similar deal to be aware of the time and energy involved in the legal fight.
I was with a company for more almost 3 years, and it was only then that they tried to get me to sign an NDA and Non-Compete. I probably could have told them to go pound sand. I was already an employee in good standing, and I was not in a sensitive job position, where I had much proprietary information. No aspect of my job had changed, so I don't know where that came from, but I put it off numerous times and strung them along. H.R. sided with me on this, so they didn't push it very hard. Eventually, after modifying it heavily, I did sign off on parts of the NDA, but I had no real information to pass on anyway, so no skin off my nose. Besides, after editing it, the thing was so gutted as to be almost meaningless. I never signed on the non-compete, and two months or so later, left the company altogether.
I remember that phrase on your shirt being made by Kimi R. I laughed all day as it was an instant classic.
I wonder if Acme sled company would have any use for my idea for intermittent windshield wipers...
Got a big chuckle out of the example using the Acme Rocket Sled Co and Whily E. Coyote.
Meep Meep.
A company B purchased the company A that I worked for. Company B had all of the "main" employees sign a non-compete agreement. Three months later company B fired all of the people that signed the non-compete agreement. I would not do that again!
I had a similar situation. Everyone refused to sign & said we will just quit. That was the entire IT department, so it would have crippled the bought company. The new company backed down.
Non compete agreements are usually unenforceable when they fire you like that unless they compensate you for lost income.
@@primoroy It depends on the state. Some states have ruled that the non-compete is enforceable in that situation.
I want to watch the cartoon series about the rocket sled. I've come across and signed NDA's when being a volunteer early access game tester. It's unpaid however you get to see a game in an early state, often broken but will run. So the mutual benefit is seeing what a company is working on before any one else and telling them about reproducible bugs in the game.
Some developers/publishing companies also welcome balance ideas or game mechanic ideas too, however it's generally so early on in the process that they know it will need to be balanced to make it fun/challenging. However mechanics that are boring or too repetitive can be addressed. It doesn't matter what the volunteer tester writes as it will be up to the developer to address the concerns and or fix the bugs.
I have tested software that was released with the exact same bugs and poor balancing with the same poor game mechanics. Sometimes I wonder why people including the developers bother to go through such a cycle in their developments if they're going to release as is regardless of what the feedback is. That feed back is often posted on forums the people who signed the NDA has access to, so it's not tested in a bubble of one.
It can be fun and it can lead to a long time affiliation with a title/series of games.
Or it can suck the entire enjoyment from the game until it's been overhauled if that will ever be the case.
Publishers can also include an NDA when they know their title is not optimised to present it in a positive fashion before release so they'll place an embargo on public statements about the game. This can include reviewers as well as volunteer testers. What normally happens in good companies is that they'll push the release date back a month or so, annoying people but not as many as they would do by releasing known buggy and glitchy software. When developer/publishers do this with a known public testing duration of two weeks or a month, it throws their professionalism and standards of quality in to doubt by all the gaming public and I just don't know why companies do this.
Except when it happens before the end of the financial year, and it's just to make the bottom line look good for the shareholders. Sadly those generally don't play the games, which is fine if you only care about a profit, personally if I was a shareholder in this company, I'd be worried about next year and following the concurrent player count trend to see if fixes and updates bring back more people or if the current base prior to release can be maintained.
Sorry for the wall of text everyone. I'm just very upset as to how Elite Dangerous has been mistreated by FDEV and David Braben, OBE. It could be far better for all.
“We seek the Holy Grail”, “We already have one!”
Smells like elderberries
@@sandybarnes887 Must be a king... hasn't got shit all over him!"
I think non-compete agreements shouldn’t be enforceable if you get fired or laid off.
If I quit that’s one thing, but if I’m so bad at my job that you fire me, you want me working for your competitors.
Well if you quit, because they treat you poorly… well…
@@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist just stop doing any work when you come in until the situation improves. They’ll either fire you, give you money to do nothing, or improve the situation.
I sign them regularly to be able to get access to pre-release software or to discuss future products with tech companies.
No NDA, no meeting.
Steve signed an NDA to not to disclose the name of the guy who asked the question.
NDAs are routine and necessary when doing business. They are used to maintain confidentiality when that is important. Sometimes people try to abuse them for some nefarious purpose, but usually that is enenforceable. Othertimes terms may be too broad for no good reason, that would be unenforceable as well.
If there is or was something wrong about what was going on with an employer that you had an NDA with, you are allowed to inform the relevant authorities without penalty. But you could not go and write a book about it instead or something like that though, that is the difference.
@11:48 A good example is that hello can you hear me now Verizon guy if anybody remember always new ads then there was no new ads from him from a whole year and then all of a sudden I could be wrong but he appear on AT&T ada and same thing on the T-Mobile
NDA's are pretty routine when two businesses decide to explore collaboration on something, too. Before getting into the weeds to find out whether or not they can mesh well, they'll need to sign NDA's to ensure that no confidential information being shared gets re-shared elsewhere.
$100.00 bill right side of 'low flying owls sign' . I like searching for the $100.00 bill, keep it coming..
Sounds like “Deal or No Deal”.
i have 3 signed NDA because I grew up with parents of some now famous young adults. I had to sign NDA to have special (family) perks related to their career
Their chosen paths require strict access to them from the general public , to keep them and their privacy safe, their agencies require NDA pertaining to the guys
As someone in manufacturing who signs several NDA's a year: It's almost always required to take a job. It's often required to even start talking about taking a job. Did you think we just do it for funsies?
I can see a limited NDA where you don't talk about the engineering and production of certain products the company makes, but not an all-inclusive NDA where you can't talk about anything that goes on there even if it's illegal.
We had to sign an NDA to receive the 16 years of severance pay after being let go due to restructuring ❗️I consider this blackmail ✅
They restructured everyone 59.5 years and older❗️✅🤬
Can never say anything negative about this supplier of hydraulic parts. 🤮
@@equallawandorder5393
They handed you 16 years of severance pay because they were firing you? They used to fire people and give ya nuthin...
@@BillySBC they didn’t call it a firing but restructuring. Firing is with cause. Let go because of $$$
Let all the talented ppl go for some college kids at 1/3 the pay. 2 years later they closed the business and are selling the building.
The division did over 30 million with up to 160 employees.
@@equallawandorder5393 If they compensate you, it's enforceable! If the laid you off 6 months before retirement to avoid paying you, they are in big trouble.
Love the T-shirt ! Kimi !
If you do contract engineering in high tech, you are going to sign an NDA (often a mutual NDA). Some tech is protected by patents but that means revealing what you are doing and often good technical can come up with a way around that if they know what you are doing. So, if the tech is hard to discover (like SW or process) it is protected as a trade secret. If you contract someone to do something, most likely they will see some of your secrets, hence the NDA. Also employees have to sign NDAs for the same reason.
I’ve come across them when working on projects with companies, to protect the companies’ trade secrets. I signed one, where the mere existence of the project was confidential, in addition to all of the technical details.
Working in aviation security I think it's quite obvious what mine covers. Ironically one of our flights was routinely put on a gate at the end of the terminal where you could walk right up to the perimeter fence and watch the security procedures going on. We had people do that quite a bit who'd quickly leave when they saw us calling it in. That airline doesn't fly to my airport any more thanks to the pandemic. I do kinda miss it.
I worked for a plastic manufacturing company, doing research and development and designing, that routinely did business for large cooperations; anywhere from the US government to the NFL and so on. The employees, including myself, were not even allowed to bring our cellphones in the facility. And if I recall correctly, it's been 13 years since I worked there, in my employment contract it stated that I COULD NOT work for any company or competitor for at least 2 years after I left them. But yeah.... BTW, the 100 bill is tucked in nicely behind the yellow sign over Steve's right shoulder. He's getting clever.
Over the years I have signed a few NDA's - When I became a member of the Department of Defense, I HAD to sign an NDA to get the job regarding access and information I came in contact with and any books I write have to be reviewed before publishing. Secondly in a more relaxed hobby of photography, I sign an NDA that allows me to preview and provide feedback on new cameras and Lenses, I get access to new gear by keeping my mouth publically shut and report any issues to the company.
I used to work in a advertisement agency, everyone had an sign an NDA, unless HR forgot about it, in order to protect our clients. It was mostly about making sure our clients competitors do not learn about what sale is coming soon.
40 years ago where I worked my boss created a logo for a product he was going to market, he had me sign and date a hand drawn representation along with his signature and date. He then took an envelope sealed it, took it to the Post Office where they stamped and dated the envelope. The whole procedure was to create a place and date in time, for that product and logo. The product did well.
Ahh the past office of 40 years ago. Today's would stamp it with a date, sure, then give it a good chance of vanishing altogether.
Hey Steve , My Dad had to sign a NDA , when he was honorably discharged from the Army . It was for a period of 30 years . I often wondered why . But he was very vague anytime we had a conversation about his service in the Pacific during WW2 . Any thoughts on that ? Thanks ,,,,,
I had an ex-employer attempt to get me to sign a bunch of these when i gave them my 2 weeks. However, they were not offering any severance! No leverage, no signature.
I am reminded of a true story that was made into a movie. I believe it was titled “spark of genius”. Between Ford and a inventor. About intermittent windshield wipers.
Good luck getting basically any technical job (a programmer, IT department, hardware dev... etc) without signing an NDA at the company in question. Which mostly exists to be able to easily sue employees that leak private company data to the public, or the competitors.
Yeah I would never hire without one. I have private medical data which if it leaked would have legal implications for us.
Some also want to be able to sweep up the next billion dollar idea born in the home of some programmer originally as his hobby project to learn a new language
@@forsakenquery well, I don't have access to any customers data, but i am sure out competitors would love to fetch our source code repo and other company assets i may have access to. Handing stuff like that out would have massive implications for the employer, so its perfectly understandable that me handing this kind of data out absolutely should have massive implications for me as an employee. NDAs are, indeed, totally understandable and make perfect sense in this case.
@@deusvult6920 how is that any related to NDA?
@@forsakenquery Does it only cover that data?
Sometimes you have little alternative. In the Army in 1971, I was ordered to get on a truck then a plane, then a huey chopper, and dropped off on a firebase in the middle of the jungle. I soon learned that the Ho Chi Minh trail was just to the east of our position. After 4 days of no sleep, ringing ears, and total dilerium, I got a ticket home (30 cal FMJ to the leg). Upon my return to my unit in Japan, I was ordered to sign a NDA, or bunk in the brig until I did. The NDA gave the US govt a chattle mortgage on all my possessions, earnings, and furure earnings as a penalty for disclosure.
So, no right to execute you in the event of disclosure?
I'm not sure if such a contract would be binding. What is the consideration the government provided you in the contract that you weren't already entitled to? Additionally, was the contract voluntarily agreed to or coerced?
Criminally they might be able to get you for releasing classified information, but I doubt the legality and enforceability of such a contract that they mandated you to sign after the fact if it was done under threat or if it didn't provide a new benefit that you weren't already due.
@@Robertz1986 release of that kind of information is prosecuted as an NDA violation. If released from service, it would be outside the UCMJ. I presume because I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Thank you for your service. You deserved better from our government.
@@DumbledoreMcCracken The issue is that a Non Disclosure Agreement is a civil contract. The government likes NDAs because they don't require laws or criminal prosecutions and thus have a much easier burden of proof, etc.
The problem though is that, as civil contracts, they generally must meet all the criteria of a normal civil contract, same as any contract written by anyone.
This means that firstly it must be agreed to voluntarily by both parties. If the government threatens you into signing it, that technically renders it invalid and unenforceable if you can convince a court or jury that this pressure was applied.
The more glaring problem though is that all contracts *must*, without exception, provide "consideration" to both parties.
For example, if you and I each sign a contract saying that you and I agree that you will pay me $10,000 or you forfeit your house to me, and I take that to court, that is unenforceable because it isn't a contract. The question the courts will ask is, what in the contract do I provide of value to you in exchange for your promise?
Fun fact about contract law, is that to be enforceable and binding, the contract must require both parties to provide something of value to the other. This is not optional. Consideration from one party without consideration from the other is actually considered a gift, and unenforceable, even when both sides have signed and agreed.
The government cannot make you sign a civil contract under threat, and the contract that you sign must require them to provide something to you of value, and that something must not be something that you were otherwise entitled to from them.
Signing NDAs when you join is perfectly accepted in voluntary government employment, including the military, in exchange for voluntarily accepting the job and the pay, benefits, and opportunities that go with it, but after the fact you can't force someone to sign a binding NDA without providing them something of value not provided in their previous contract.
The government has an alternative, which is prosecution for revealing classified information, and that doesn't need your consent, but that means a trial and consequences based on legislation and proof beyond a reasonable doubt, not made up terms written in secret.
Back in the day I serviced heavy portable rock crushing equipment. We were scheduled to do the maintenance on some rented crushers. Mid way through the project, when it became known that it was a "Walmart" job site (in the excavation and grading stage), all technicians were required to not only sign an NDA, but have a hair drug test come back clean to even enter the site. It was "Walmart" that was requiring the drug tests and the NDA. Even the main company did not drug test. 3 out of 4 technicians declined to participate in that job site. I certainly declined.
As a mechanical engineer in the Detroit area, I have signed many NDA and NCA's during my career. It is very common to do for specific projects...
NDAs are quite common in acquisitions and mergers, to prevent damage that can be done and/or fraud committed, if info is leaked prior to public and/or internal announcements. I've worked at places where this was common practice and places where it was not... the places that didn't use them had far worse morale, due to employees hearing important information externally, long before any internal announcement was made.
I've used NDAs countless times when approaching private venture capital to help fund a business proposition. And I've signed quite a few Non-competes in the course of my career too.
Dozens and Dozens . . .
Had to deal with a few that went sideways ....
@@danielweston9188 No doubt. Currently dealing with that kinda headache. Cheers 🍸
Signed many NDAs in my profession. It was the only way to get a certain position or to protect others.
I guess it depends on if you are just wanting $$$, or you are wanting to prove a point and bring something to light!
What about an NDA and NCA for proprietary idea and/or process. How can that be done? What's it's sunset? What's it's weaknesses?
I have something never seen before and I need to protect it to the maximum.
Army made me sign one to get discharge papers (DD214). As a translator, you deal with them a lot. For example in Japan, I had to sign one before translating the written driver’s test.
There is one thing I've wondered about NDA's. I have heard that in some areas if you reject a settlement offer and then after a trial are ultimately awarded an amount less than the offer you can be penalized for wasting the court's time. How would an NDA in the settlement offer affect that? I could see myself in some situations rejecting any offer with an NDA and think it would be unfair to be penalized for that.
I am not a lawyer; that said this sounds like something that would only happen in the US if your lawsuit was frivolous. For instance, you sued someone for slipping on the ice on their property and they were like, “here’s $25k to go away,” but you figured you could make more at trial and at trial it was shown you didn’t actually suffer any significant damage from your fall AND that you failed to exercise due care when it was obviously icy, so in short you are wasting the court’s time, THEN they find out you were offered a settlement, the court may require you to pay for their time.
There is the NDA as an employee/contractor as well. As a stagehand working on a show for a magician/illusionist, I had to sign an NDA that I wouldn't ever say anything about how any of the tricks worked or I couldn't work that show. In tech, I've signed them when I've been shown "in progress" work from another company, and they were standard for contractors that worked for us, that they weren't allowed to talk about the details of anything they did while working for us.
8:02 I don't know about Kmart... maybe Target?
I have worked a the same corporation for over+30 years. They are in every state in the U.S.A. and a few other countries. They are the leader and largest company in the field. They have "restructured" several times to stay #1. During these "restructuring" phases, I have been given a pink slip three times. Each time they had included a non-complete clause in the severance package (one week's pay for every year with the company). It was a non-complete clause for five (5) years and anywhere they do business. I have done the following to these "severance package contracts": 1) Refused to sign. 2) (second time) struckout the non-compete section and requested them to sign it beforeI sign. 3) (3rd time) I was told I could NOT strikeout the non-compete clause. So, I added (wrote in), If unable to work in this field (business field), (company) will compensate me one year's salary, including cost of living and average yearly salary increases, for every year I cannot work in my profession (field name) due to non-compete clause. That was 14 years ago and I am still working there, getting one of the highest raise and bonuses each year for my work.
In order to get pre-production samples from manufacturers, I've signed several NDAs.
I used to work in film and at the time I was dating a guy who worked in aerospace engineering. It was very fun discussing the fact that we couldn't discuss our jobs. I worked with a lot of talent and regularly touch movies before they were released. So my NDA's came with monetary penalties if I didn't comply and lack of job if I didn't sign. My ex worked with classified documents.
As a construction estimator I have signed a few dealing with government buildings. Can't say why but they are interesting buildings.
I had to sign an NDA to participate on a board of ebay users both buyers and sellers. The purpose of was to provide feedback on proposed changes to buying and selling, and for ideas to make changes to current rules to solve problems encountered. No money, just input. A later CEO eliminated the program and that was that. The NDA was to prevent ideas and future changes from becoming public and was a good way to prevent that.
There have been stories recently about many chain fast food joints having minimum wage employees sign Non compete statements. Problem is that even if they would ultimately fail in court, how is a minimum wage worker going to be able to afford a lawyer to fight such a civil case? That and certain celebrity and political personalities that make everyone sign an NDA basically because they will see what jerks they are. Still a lot of tell all books being written.
In the UK non-compete employment agreements are unenforceable as they are considered to be a restraint of trade! It is known as taking Gardening Leave and is normally included in employment agreements with USA companies; who do know that they are unenforceable. Unfortunately, most employees do not know this.
@steve Lehto : Have you ever heard of a NDA being required for a severance package to prevent a person talking about why they are leaving an organization?
Example: Person A is fired from a church organization A for "reasons." But before person A is let go, they must sign a NDA to receive a severance package that prevents person A from being able to talk about it for x amount of time or undertiminitate amount of time. However, Church organization A can give their own "story" for the reason. Even if this reason is not entirely accurate.
I've signed 2 non-disclosure agreements, one was very specific. That one demanded I sign an NDA before working on a project in which I was going to learn who was being laid off. That NDA made sense since it was clear what information was to be kept secret. Once the lay off occurred there would be no further need to keep it secret. The second I had to sign in order to get my money when I was laid off. It was a needless agreement. I knew no company secrets, so I signed it. If I was a higher level employee it might have been a problem.
Why would anyone sign an NDA? A really big check for starters! Hell, I'll keep quiet about Steves' low flying owls for just a C-note!
@Steve Letho
What about a court "gagging" order?
I'm curious whether NDAs (and contracts in general) are legally binding if the information they want to conceal is illegal in nature.
I work in IT, and have signed NDA's because I see all sorts of priveledged information. Everything from Trade Secrets to lists of HR data. It's pretty much expected when your job ensures you're going to be looking at businesses (and some Governmental) most private sensitive data. I have also willingly signed a Non-compete, because they were giving me a boat load of money and I'd already started working in a completely unrelated industry. It was like found money (because it was attached to a buyout offer).
We regularly have to sign NDAs related to our work our employer. As part of my job I am exposed or have access to a lot of specialized proprietary and confidential technical intellectual property. The NDAs are a normal part of business in the high tech sector.
In addition to the personal NDAs, there are also inter-company NDAs. Because companies collaborate with other firms, the inter-company NDAs provide that each company agrees to respect the confidentiality of the other company's proprietary and confidential information provided the information disclosed is properly marked as such. If an employee of company A discloses the proprietary information of company B, then company B can take action against company A. Company A would also presumably take some kind of disciplinary or potentially even legal action against the employee.
No personal contract should control what you say in a court of law, that is outside of a companies trade secrets.
The industries I worked in during my career are so competitive that an NDA, and non-compete are standard requirements to get hired. They are usually enforceable because they are very narrow and specific about trade secrets, technical information, and products. Gossip and work conditions are not even mentioned. When I have been laid off, I've gotten either compensation for the time I cannot work in the industry, or a release.
That is not correct. Many companies are even trying to include gossip and work conditions in their NDA's.
You can always negotiate your way out of them. I write software for a few companies that wanted NDAs and non-competes signed, but as I mostly resell a similar service so I told them no. I took a 20% pay cut but now they can't fire me, and I have literally no work to do ever.
Great video Steve, I love how you can dance all around it without naming names, ha, ha. I'm not saying, I'm just saying
20 years in the U.S. military and an additional 10 years working for a U.S. military contractor. I have signed a lot of NDAs because I've dealt with information the military doesn't want me to disclose to the public. What was in it for me? Employment.
While sometimes that's enough compensation, it might set a really bad precedent. I would accept that, if the NDA covered regular obligations about the job. But what if you caught the company doing something potentially illegal, after having signed an NDA? Is the mere fact you were employed enough compensation for staying silent? In that case, it seems like keeping people quiet from providing evidence under the threat of being criminally implicated, for example if the company tried to say you were an accessory to the crime.
If my NDA covers something that serious, best believe I would be negotiating for much higher salary. Simply having a job isn't enough at a certain point, when you've been actively made involved without prior knowledge. By the very nature of signing an NDA, you have to sign BEFORE knowing what it is you cannot disclose. If it covers trade secrets and other information you could reasonably assume they would keep private, then being employed is sufficient. If they force you to sign an NDA and then admit to huge amounts of fraud, a reasonable person would not expect that. By signing that NDA there's now a paper trail that makes you potentially liable, and you were not allowed to negotiate with full knowledge of what the job entailed.
NDAs are also very common in industry when you are visiting a supplier or customer facility. These are often signed by the company you work for but small business owners etc... may need to sign them in order to be allowed access for whatever purpose they need. Depending on the industry just being in the facility can expose you or give you access to a lot of trade secrets or other information.
As a condition of employment for software houses, an NDA is standard, covering trade secrets, source code, client list, client data, future projects, etc.