When You Should Care About VRM Temperatures (Ft. Der8auer)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ย. 2017
- Testing VRM temperatures + throttling under various conditions with the ASUS Rampage VI Extreme.
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Article: www.gamersnexus.net/guides/31...
ASUS Rampage VI Extreme that was tested (on Newegg): bit.ly/2fwy8ld
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Article: www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3113-asus-rampage-vi-extreme-vrm-thermals
A reminder that, again, the big question is when it's reasonable to expect the VRM heatsink to be able to handle the heat load without help. This is not necessarily only a fault of VRM cooler design, but also a byproduct of the fact that i9 CPUs suck so much power through the rails. The two together mean that, if overclocking i9 CPUs, you should be actively ensuring there's cooling over the VRM.
Here's Der8auer's channel: th-cam.com/users/der8auer
Gamers Nexus Solid and concise information. Thank you GN!
I guess this was a product of the rushed launch to some extent.
Most motherboards were thought to be used with the 10 core(and apparently with not much more headroom), and the addition of the higher models pushed it to far. Both Intel with the change in lineup and the manufacturer(s) going with looks over form were causes of the issue
Another big issue is the VRM designs themselves, across the stack on both Intel/AMD they can be pretty weak when I don't see why it needs to be that way, combined with the lack of proper heatsinks we're in for the dark ages of VRMs or something.
How much for the shirt with the silicon stain on it?
IF YOU USE SOMETHING LIKE THAT ( www.amazon.com/CRYORIG-Ultimate-Hybrid-Liquid-Radiator/dp/B0177GTTS8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509989630&sr=8-1&keywords=cryorig+a40 ) WILL IT BE BETTER ?
Thanks for having me in the video :)
Thanks for joining! For anyone not subscribed to der8auer, click his name and check out the content!
Der8auer can you try x299 mb with this aio if its better with the VRM? www.amazon.com/CRYORIG-Ultimate-Hybrid-Liquid-Radiator/dp/B0177GTTS8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509989630&sr=8-1&keywords=cryorig+a40
now all we need is you and buildzoid on a episode with steve live
You are an absolute legend, thanks for offering your opinion! For what it's worth, I completely agree - when the consumer buys an expensive motherboard (there are ones that cost north of 400€), it's absolutely reasonable to expect it to not overheat under moderate loads!
Der8auer, why don't you let users from Turkey to buy stuff from casekings.de? Any political motivations perhaps?
Kyle, the real authority on bottlenecks.
Out of the box vrm thermals
The MOSFETs comes in a long reel tape, OUT OF REEL THERMALS
you forgot to turn on caps lock :D
I wonder what an SSD's thermals are like when you take them out of their case
X299 and 7900x user here. Using EK monoblock since first day and never cared about how hot my vrms are.
what are your thoughts on placing cheap dollar thermal pads on vrms? maybe adding those $5-10 aluminum mini heatsinks too.
I really hope we can get some practical motherboard designs in the future, rather than just "gamer" ones.
I mean, server motherboards? Maybe it’s just me, but I always considered the all-green OEM motherboards exceptionally boring and ugly.
ASUS DELUXE and WS is your answer.
@@StaelTek The Asus WS boards are great, they are about as close to a server board as you can get while still looking nice and having all the enthusiast features. I have an X99E-WS and I love how overbuilt it is. The VRMs are so efficient and well cooled that their heatsinks never even get warm to the touch when the CPU is under a sustained full load and I like the dual 8 pin power connectors even though it's totally overkill for a ~140W CPU.
@@averyalexander2303 yes. I hope to see more WS boards in the future. I think there are Z790 WS around (don’t quote me on that one).
I measured all the VRMs on my gear out of the box and they have never been above ambient temperature. Nothing to see here. 😎
(Sarcasm doesn't translate well)
Great video. The attention to detail and the professionalism in which you handled the topic is remarkable. This is something that I don't see being discussed anywhere lately. I already had this kind of problem with my AMD fx8320 and my MSI 990FXA-GD65 v2 motherboard. I can only put the cpu @4ghz without having VRM temps going 100°C+ and making my cpu throttle HARD. As soon as the VRMs are actively cooled, I can go as far as 4.4ghz on the cpu.
I think it's way past time that active VRM cooling became an industry standard, certainly on platforms that are being targetted at overclockers.
Meanwhile, what's the best solution? My takeaway from this and der8auer's video is that, first of all, *never use a front rad,* and second of all either have a top case blower oriented as intake, or use a down blower on the CPU, or have LC or a side blower on the CPU but a separate fan "mounted on a spike" directly over VRM.
And again, all of this depends on having cold, unimpeded intake from the front. It also seems that all current VRM heatsinks are more like thermal _insulators,_ and we should be removing them as a matter of standard procedure.
The problem with top intake is that surely it's just going to get sucked straight out of the exhaust, and won't get much chance to hit the VRM. And even with the exhaust off completely, because the top intake is perpendicular to the board, and the VRMs are relatively low profile, any air is going to just skim right over the top of them.
A down blower on the CPU will certainly pass air over the VRM, but it'll be hot air by the time it gets there, so again that seems counter-productive. Also, is overclocking even possible with down blowers?
Sadly the only solution that seems to make any sense is the "fan on a spike" idea, and even then I'd want to feed it cold air from a side panel intake, which pretty much excludes all tempered glass cases, and actually excludes basically every modern case on the market, with the exception of a single Corsair model I can think of.
While we're on the subject of inadequate cooling, maybe Steve could include a brief analysis of HDD cooling in modern mid-tower cases, or rather the total lack thereof.
The general assumption seems to be that nobody uses HDDs any more, so the fact that they've been shoved into the PSU shroud with zero airflow is moot. That's great if you're a millionaire and can afford 2TB SSDs, but most of us can't, and meanwhile a slightly more affordable 250GB SSD is only just big enough to hold maybe 4 triple-A game titles (at an average of 50GB each) plus the OS.
I just find it funny that in 2017 the only way to get a PC that actually works properly is with a Dremel.
2022 still same problem! Mobo bottlenecking/prochet/stutter etc coz of VRMs meanwhile cpu temps at 40's
Back in the core 2 days EVERY single high end board I used came with vrm and or north bridge fans.
@@MrFaithiest amazing lie
@@h2oaddict28 Flaming lie
11:30 always easier to grasp while seeing them all at once. Thanks for the chart
bring back finned VRM heatsinks
Really a mobo at that price should have better cooling, it's concerning that vendors create boards while being so focused on how it looks, and not validating the actual performance
And the consumers keep buying more of it, if we would stop buying these boards they'd stop making them and move to better cooling solutions....
@jadoei13, alright i'm all for it, but please point me to consumer level non hedt boards, that have proper thin fins instead of these aluminum blocks.... and yes i know it doesn't matter at x370 or b350 that much, but it's still a joke none the less, but as with so many things in the tech industry choice is taken away from us.
i'd love to buy a good freesync 30 inch 16:10 2560x 1600 l0 hertz plus display... well they got rid of the choice between 16:10 and 16:9, no one was asked.....
the choice u're talking about in a marketing controlled industry is an illusion.
no one asked for aluminum blocks to replace proper fin setups, they just did it!
there is not one x299 board, that has proper vrm cooling, not one! that comes to my mind, so what to chose?
i mean it is that bad, that they rather put a tiny as hidden as possible fan on the threadripper boards instead of having proper passive cooling setups.
remember fans die, passive cooling does not! however unlikely a dead fan is, it's still a joke.
the best we can hope for is through people like steve to talk some sense into the manufacturers.
Why don't we go back to the MSI Z87 VRM heatsinks? They looked good and had reasonable surface area.
@analkarl the 4th. (great name btw)
specify which msi z87 u mean, there are a ton apparently.
cataria pega The Z87-G45 for example. Dragon-shaped VRM coolers. Looks good, gets the job done.
@20:00
I feel damn glad that I bought an Asus X99-e WS workstation board for my custom loop cooled and overclocked 5960x after hearing De8aur reference the Asus X99 workstation boards as his standard for excellent cooling of the VRM’s.
I was aware of VRM’s and spared no expense on the motherboard knowing workstation boards are more stringently tested. I didn’t know the X99-e WS boards were THAT good.
I have never found your independent investigations redundant and have often found them critical to my understanding. Thank you for your work.
Some informative stuff from both you and Derbauer...
Great video guys !!!
Keep up good work !
"Silicone adhesive"
I dieded
Also called concrete.
What about passive aggressive cooling?
if you think about that logically, passive aggressive cooling would mean mounting like a case sized heatsink to each part riddled with heatpipes. allowing you to get fairly low temps with 0 fans involved.
@@shawnpitman876 There was a case designed for this. Can't quite remember the name. But it's 100% passive cooling. And it sucked for anything but the lowest power systems that would be only good for browsing and netflix. Reason for that is passive heat radiation is one of the slowest methods of energy exchange. So it sucks simply because...physics.
@@Quicksilver_Cookie if you use some capillary action coolers similar to vapor chambers you could achieve decent passive cooling. Also der8auer's own CLC that uses some kind of working fluid could be run fanless as it is also using evap for cooling, though the effectiveness of it increases when fans are used. The Calyos NSG-S0 was a good example of passive cooling at its finest.
have you tried telling it to just chill?
@@Quicksilver_Cookie Streacom DB4
If motherboard makers where to actually use heatsink fins instead of the mostly decorative blocks of aluminum like they been using for a few years now there wouldn't be any issue. I guess they were use to CPUs not consuming so much power that having a non-optimal VRM cooler wasn't the worst thing in the world so they could be more artistic with the VRM coolers that is not so much the case now
Zachary Taylor that's what happens when Intel's inefficient chips get pushed because of competition
i said it before and i say it again:
i much prefer the look of real vrm coolers with thin fins and proper designs, function being the focus, than the alu blocks we got today.
if intel told the mobo guys that they were going to go over 10 or whatever cores...... their would not be an issue
while i prefer actual fins as well..... it would have been just fine for an 8-10 core cpu
i think you will see some "version 2" mobos come out in the next ~4 months with much better VRM heatsinks
kain hall I mean der8aur's and TTL's x299 vrm videos were based on the 7900x, the 10 core they were "designed for". The 12+ core models just made it worse. Also the really bad stock paste doesn't help as hotter chips draw more power
I have a BeQuiet case and found my best options for air-cooling (I leave it processing 3D 24/7) was to put two fans blowing in from the basement, two 140's blowing in from the front, and three 120's blowing in on the top. I let the pressure blow everything out the back. All incoming is fine-mesh filtered and I have a HEPA filter blowing into the corner to push clean air in and push the warm exhaust out of that area, making a high pressure area around the desk to keep dust down.
That's all noise though, but when I turn the fans down and the big HEPA off, everything's quiet for recording.
Temps dropped perfectly since I did that. I use a BeQuiet big cooler and it's on a 5950x. VRM's on the B550 Unify-X run cool when not overclocking, in the mid 50's with the fans rarely coming on and still processing.
I always know that VRM temperatures matter. But it's super rare to see a review that mentions VRM temperatures, most of them just show you pointless benchmarks in which the reviewed board's performance is only a few percent higher or lower than its competitors. Like right now, I want to build a Coffee Lake system and the Asus Strix Z370-E is in my budget range and has features that interests me, but I can't find a review that says anything about its VRM temperature. WTF ??
Nam Duc Dinh skip or wait for asus to address the load line calibration on strix z370e or chances are if u overclock that u will the cpu might get over voltage and die
tanmay panadi it seems to have been fixed or at least improved since the latest bios released a few weeks ago, i saw positive feedbacks on that bios regarding LLC issues on OCN and Asus forums. But i cant find anything about its VRM anywhere.
Nam Duc Dinh the problem is they rushed the mobo with the vrm and llc calibrated for 7th gen four core cpu and not for 6 core cpu comparatively the gaming 5 and 7 from gigabyte are the good bang for the buck and oc3d didn't give it a good review and even puget system dropped the mobo
David K. most sad part of that is india dosent have any service centrers for as rock but only for asus and gigabyte customer service for asus is better than most so I am f*up and have to either buy hero with wifi or aorus gaming 7 gigabyte has worst customer reviews for service
Good luck finding one in stock until 2018
Trying to stabilize my FX-9590 for overnight Handbrake encoding, and I think I'm overheating my VRMs. As usual, you've got an excellent video on the topic. Thanks a bunch!
Glad you guys shedded some light on this. There are many people that claim they're some short of experts but in reality they're full of crap. Thanks again for the video.
I've been waiting for this video.
Intel a few months ago: AMD is gluing together their server CPUs. Glue is terrible, just horrible. It results in unpredictable performance
Intel today: We are going to glue AMD GPUs onto our CPUs because glue is amazing. Hell, we are going to glue our entire processors together! We love glue!
You have to wonder if there were a bunch of Intel engineers that knew this was in the pipeline that just facepalmed as hard as they could when they saw the infamous "glue" marketing slide.
They've been sniffing glue
jim k I bet there were many
imagine all those beautiful faces you could photograph at intel when they told about the glue stuff :P
First I heard about this latest Intel-AMD partnership project, but it's good to see these rivals unite. Nvidia may have more powerful technology, but AMD is going to take back a lot of market share dominating the mobile/console market.
they didin't said that the glue is terrible.They just said it's glued.And that's a good thing actually.
I have reversed the rear fan as intake and it has worked as long as thares top fans and or airflow vents
An excellent video by the way!!!!
"When You Should Care About VRM Temperatures"
"This video is brought to you by EVGA"
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Leap They seem to have the best VRM cooling at the moment?
@@VredesbyrdNoir They had a case of exploding VRMs because the heat sink wasn't making contact on early Pascal cards.
@@bushhawk5460 I think it was more related to overall VRM quality rather than just temperature alone: th-cam.com/video/mpxQaSjQclo/w-d-xo.html
Great job guys!
one of the more interesting videos. Putting aesthetics first is a problem at every level of PC construction (parts design) and has only gotten worse. Think thermals first and choose your parts carefully!
Thanks for another great content
bartekowca666 This channel is real and is not for profit. This channel represents the greater good and whole of the pc gaming and enthusiasts building community.
Glad this was covered. I've been having this problem with this issue for years through the few motherboards that I have owned. Mobo mosfet would always reach its thermal limit before CPU would reach its limits when OCing, even on my now current Ryzen setup with a Gigabyte AB350 Gaming 3.
Been trying to find an elegant solution for this. Been thinking of doing a custom Liquid loop with a mosfet block when I can but the top mount intake fan sounds like something to try.
try buying a board that isn't a piece of trash and you might not have this issue. i've been using a MSI x370 gaming pro carbon and my VRM never gets above 65c even when pushing 1.425v to my cpu.
so i guess..... EKWB monoblock for the win ! :D
Vladek1 agreed, try ek monoblock! Kyle can't use just cpu wb for 10k pc build)
The thing is, that I bought this monoblock for the same motherboard, paired with a delidded 7920X. Still in the process of building a PC so will begin testing in a week or so. The build quality of this monoblock is superb for the price and it comes with separate heatsink for LAN on the left sife of Asus mb, so the heat of the vrms doesn't get trapped under acrylic cover.
I have spare aluminium cans, thermal paste and a saw. That should do
Don't forget to cool your vCore wires.
Haha, nice :-)
RippedUpRunway worst part is is that it could very easily melt standard cables
this board only has a 8 and 4 pin, which i don't understand, because psus either have 2x 8 pins or 1x 8 pin usually for the cpu, but the fun part will be having a high ripple psu on a motherboard with only 1x pin connection and an overclocked maxed out 18 core i really wonder how hot those cables gonna get then.
I recall some of my A-Bit motherboards having heatpipes, as well as their Gigabyte competitors. My old EPOX EP9-npa+ sli had active cooling on the northbridge/southbridge (don't recall). That stuff went out of the window fast.
My threadripper monoblock is coming today, sure wish I would've had the chance to buy it stock like that. I reached out to ek and they gave me a quick response via email. Great customer service EK.
It bothers me that nowadays they just plop those fat, monolithic blocks of aluminum with heatpipes underneath on the VRMs. This is stupidly small surface area. I miss good old razor sharp fin arrays, they didn't look as flashy, but actually performed like a heatsink should.
Some even had heatpipe and fin towers with small fans.
@@MJ-uk6lu I made that comment 3 years ago and the trend is switching somewhat. High end boards tend to have decent heatsinks now. But mid range is still garbage.
@@neoqueto Not really a bad situation if you have downdraft cooler like Scythe Choten.
Meanwhile I got a board, which I thought had pretty decent aluminum heatsink only to realize that it was fake. It looks like normal big heatsink, but there's nothing under plastic shroud and practically no metal. Board is B460M Aorus Pro. Good thing that I only had i5 10400F, so under prime 95 during boost it gets up to 76C and once boost tau expires it stays in the 60s. So it's okay, but I wouldn't want to run any of K chips (even if this board cannot overclock anything) at their TDP. What is a real garbage, are those cheapest boards with out any heatsinks and often 3+1 or 4+1 VRM setups. I can't imagine that they don't overheat and slowly die from excessive thermals on VRMs. Perhaps Intel sunflower style cooler helps a bit by pushing a lot of air on them, but still they are basically e-waste that only handle Pentium chips.
NG is amazing im going to use a old GPU only block & need to know vram temps i now know exactly what ill need on ram now
Radiator in front is the coldest solution means getting best CPU temperatures and hot air in the case is no problem at all because its a continuous flow ... for the GPU u can add a case fan to the bottom that bring cold air straight up.
We used to have VRM sinks with real fins an surface area, rather than just hunks of aluminum. Last one i owned was an Asus P6X58D-E had a vrm sink with real fins. Many of these new boards have just hunks of metal and no real surface area, My MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon is one such board with just blocks of metal for a heatsink. A block of metal is not a long term heatsing.
I used to have an Asus TUF Sabertooth Z77 and I had one of the down draft air coolers by Noctua. I still have the cooler but not the mobo. Conclusion it was the best cooler for that mobo.
I see something similar in tech yes city when he use a b350m-a which have no heatsink on the mosfet, and show the huge difference of performance with a ryzen 7 using heatsinks with a fan over it; I think at this point Mobo manufacturers should start using active cooling solution over mosfets like you see on CPU laptops...
Steve/GN, this comment may not get a thousand likes but I still wanted to say that I really appreciate what you are doing here, truely informing the world and always giving a critic point of view on everything, always based on tests. I hope you get the best, and never sell out! The world needs this :)
I remember Boards like Gigabyte p45 extreme... A friend of mine had it, and it had really sick mosfet and chipset cooling.
You can google it. Nowdays Boards are kinda shitty with that. Form over function i guess.
Addi Wow if motherboards had VRM cooling like that there would be no VRM temp complaints.
IMO it should work. If passive cooling isn't sufficient vendors should be including fans
Based on my experience with my 7700k this was a problem with the Z270 boards as well.
I have a new 8th Gen i7 8700K system with an ASUS Z370 A Prime motherboard. It came with a bracket to hold an added 40mm fan over the top left corner of the motherboard. I used the bracket to hold a 40mm Noctua fan (no room for anything wider) but have not run any benchmarks. I had to ask Noctua support which way the fan should face - up or down (they said down) because ASUS provided no info on that. ASUS also offers a 3d printed bracket "file" to print a bracket for another small fan for the lower left corner area over an M.2 slot that is covered by a metal plate that presses on the M.2 NVMe SSD to radiate heat. But I have not found a source to "print" that bracket and ASUS didn't even provide an illustration what it looks like or where it goes. I use my system in a large case with a front and top fan and Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler and a back case fan, and temps usually stay around 30-80 C per the Core Temp utility. (System built Dec. 2017) This system is used for periodic video editing and I am not a Gamer, so my GPU is a simple one just to run 3 monitors.
If an aircooler - like noctua - is placed to blow UPwards and in top of the case would be a case fan, the vrm would benefit. But seriously... For the price these mainboards are sold, they better be solid copper with much more fins. Or many more vrms to spread temps.
So im guessing my top mounted H100i pulling in is pretty bad for my VRM on a z370-e, going to swap those to push out and mount a 50x50 fan on the mount asus provided and hopefully that will keep me cool enough for for a 5ghz OC.
Shameless Karma grab for "OUT OF THE BOX THERMALS"
This was kind of new topic for me. I was happily overclocking my CPU to 4,7GHz. However in stresstest VRM temps rocketed to 100C, which didn't make anything to throttle but I didn't feel too good with those temps. What was surprising was I was forced to tune down the clock to 4,0GHz to limit VRM temps to 90C in 2 hour stresstest. I'm not too familiar with VRM temps but somehow it feels that maybe around 100C is max on continuous use. So next I need to be looking some VRM cooling.
so how did you cool the vrms?? man I dont know how to do it, like, i have to install 40mm fans over vrms?
@@null2089You can get large aluminium heatsinks which are designed for industrial applications but work perfectly for VRMs, all you need is a hacksaw to cut it to your desired shape .
In terms of installing, I would recommend normal paste like MX-6 on top of the mosfets and to hold the heatsink in place some high temp silicone adhesive in the corners nothing too crazy just a few dabs of that silicone which is very reliable and somewhat shock absorbant!
Enzotech mos-c1 heatsinks work great
They should go back to cooper heat-sinks. I remember my X58A-UD7 had a add-on for VRM/NB cooling because they ran hot.
Could you make a video explaining the Intel + Radeon partnership
RepsUp100 is it happening again? Last thing was Lisa basically saying "it's never going to happen, we're not going to support our competitors. "
It is happening, and its very simple.
Intel has a multi-die technology called EMIB, similar to Infinity Fabric.
Intel wants to inject EMIB into consumer products due to it being cost-effective and high quality.
Radeon had multi-die ready products. NVIDIA didn't and still doesn't.
Radeon products are in high demand from Apple, who uses them in Macbook Pro.
This makes a cost-effective, high-performance combo: Radeon graphics, Intel CPU, which is what Macbook Pros have had for pretty much eternity.
These are 35-45W parts only, and will not be available as an individual component. No Windows as-sold machines are scheduled to use them. EMIB is (curiously) only being used to connect the GPU to its HBM2. The GPU is still connected to the CPU via PCI-E. The GPU is semi-custom and comes out of the same business practice that AMD has with Sony & Microsoft (and has had with Nintendo in the past) for consoles.
We need a video on this for sure. I'm looking into it and I keep seeing updates! Very interesting.
Alright well, this seems like a pretty win/win situation for both companies then.
My personal thought is. Especially on these humongous sockets. AiO liquid coolers should employ a design that would include a 5V fan over the socket itself together with leads to the radiator which would be mounted elsewhere. For custom water cooling you can always get the ones that cover VRM's also and IMO, they look cooler. (no pun intended). PS: I remember back in the day when coolers actually came with their own passive larger heatsinks for other things on the motherboard just for the same reason. Same goes with those old Zalman GPU ones that had the memory heatsinks seperate. Anyway. It's a thing to work on. And it's not easy (if it is to look good also) becasuse coupled with massive sockets you also get a ton of RAM + nvme so pretty crowded space above the first PCIe slot.
This man predicted the Liquid Freezer II
16:25 Stick a fan on a spike and put it right over the VRM's. LOL
This VIDEO wasn't originally in the plan , We briefly talked about clock throttling due to VRM but we still made it of 24 min.
As ever, really informative and well-done video, thank you GN!!!
I am running a Rtzxen 9 5950X on an Asus Crosshair VIII -- OC over 4.5 is getting way too hot ... so I am replacing my Noctua HD15 for an EK custom loop - looking into EK products, I see they have (for more or less the same hi price) a fancy CPU water block and a quite nice Mother Board water block ... designed for the crossHair
- I was going for the fancy CPU water block, but after watching this video. I start to question the choice. Will, it better to put a water block that will cool the entire Motherboard?
Or will the temperature difference between the CPU and VRM, increase the overall temperature of the entire system?
what do you think?
Look up MSI carbon ek motherboard there's videos that show off how it cools the vrm and CPU from the water block included with it
AIO and get one that lets you put an L bracket on one of the fans rear or top so it cools the VRM directly
I made the mistake of buying a Aorus B450 M and now I am looking at aftermarket VRM cooling solutions. Thanks for the vid GN.
Ah shit i got a b450m tuf board :( i was low on cash but im gonna place a 2 fans on vrm
I only care about temps when they hit .1% and 1% highs.
Out of curiosity would you consider the crosshair v formula z to have "proper heatsink?"
I am building an X299 (i9 7900X) system.
I am adding a fan behind the motherboard
to blow outside air onto the back of the board, opposite the cpu. (BeQuiet 120mm)
This is an addition to many other case fans.
I have seen a few reviews where it gets quite hot back there.
Steve, Do you think this cooling the board behind the cpu will help at all?
The "cable management bulge" on the side cover gives me plenty of clearance.
so, if youre going for as good overclocks as possible one would really need a monoblock and custom loop to ensure as good cooling of the VRMs as possible while being able to run high yet somewhat stable overclocks? at least for the rampage 6?
You should give your video series about thermals a name? What better name than *OUT OF THE BOX THERMALS*
I have a question unrelated to the video.
Is the *BitFenix Spectre Pro 200mm Case Fan* actually good for a radiator setup?.
They claim it's high pressure. What do you think.
Hey, new subscriber! Watched a few videos, and love what I see.
look, I'm not a hardware guy, I'm a software guy... and I recently replaced a few components in this machine. I just picked up an i5 8600k unlocked, a z370 Mainboard and some G.skill 3200 memory.
I'm running the CPU at stock configuration, but using the pre-configured memory profile to unlock the higher speeds for the memory. The system runs well, but I know for sure I could pull more for the buck than what I have it set up as. I'm using an air cooler, and running about 33 C under medium-high load with stock configurations, and I have a 650 watt power supply, rated at gold 80+. (honestly not an expert on what all these mean) =)
What I'm curious about (to either video author, or any other enthusiasts also watching), is... is there a decent place to start reading, or conversing to learn where to start in terms of optimizing your setup to get the best bang for your buck, without compromising the safety or longevity of the gear? I'm certain I'm running well under the thresholds of any damage, and could probably get a lot more out of this setup than I am currently.
If it matters, I'm not a gamer, I do game sometimes, but this machine is mostly used for database processing and occasionally virtualization. This is also the first machine that I've used in quite a while, not using intel's xeon offerings (I tend to buy off lease workstations, but the replacement cost on things like SAS drives etc is unreal), and in that regard, the difference is almost sickening. The objective is to be able to do my job (as best as I can) without bankrupting myself at the same time.
Any advice? =)
Thanks!
oh... as soon as I was typing about top air intakes or exhaust you talked about it.... this is why i love this channel. Way smart.
Seems like the Cryorig A40 would be a good choice for overclocking here then
Best content ever.
They need ducting, I've had computers in the past where i've put a couling over 1/3rd the rear fan and it worked, many servers do the same where they manviour air through the case.
Actively adjusting current X299 (i9 7900X) build cooling with your vids as a guide.
Quick question.
I am planning on adding a fan attached to the case behind the cpu
blowing directly on the back of the board,
using the built-in opening the case provides, and will make access to outside air for it.
It's actually a hdd fan.
What do you think of this idea?
Fan type for reference: www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UB43Y8488
It is thin and a bracket can be made, just asking your opinion on how effective it may be.
Plenty of BeQuiet high rpm fans are in the chassis already.
Thanks.
you said liquid want really the solution but wouldn't a monoblock solve the issue as well? i mean if your on X399 with an I9 whats a couple hundred for a custom liquid cooling setup featuring a monoblock (i havent actually used a monoblock myself it just seems like it cools the problem area, been eyeballing one for my next build but probably waiting till the new intel socket next year to actually form a plan)
You know, my old A8N32-SLI-Deluxe had a solution to this, they called it the Q-fan.
Interesting. I'm a design engineer so there's always a battle between the engineer wanting to design something amazing that will last forever and the accountants/sales strategy teams who just want the item to function well enough for the next few years before a new generation comes available at which point they want your current bit of kit to become outdated and redundant so you go out and buy the newest, latest and greatest...
Am looking at installing a AMD 3950x onto a ROG B450-F motherboard, replacing the 2700x CPU currently installed. I want it to work, but also want it to last. At first glance the TDP of both CPU's is identical at 105W so I assume this means the VRM's should not get any hotter with this newer CPU? (same number of VRMs delivering the same amount of power... .although the 2700x seems to work at 1.2V whereas the 3950x seems to operate at 1.4V. As P=IV and power is the same this should mean the higher voltage flowing through the MOSFETs causes a lower current to flow when used with the 3950x. The graph on the following page, (not convinced it is correct as would expect the power loss curce to be more of a U shape... effectively an inverse of the efficiency curve) seems to imply that a lower current flow produces lower power loss and so less heat... which seems to imply that the VRMs "should" actually run cooler with the 3950x than they do with the 2700x...
www.ekwb.com/blog/what-is-mosfet-and-why-should-you-keep-it-cool/
So if that is the case, I'm struggling to understand why all the pro's are recommending the 3950x needs a much better motherboard due to VRM temperatures....
UNLESS motherboard manufacturers are purposefully programming the BIOS to use the MOSFETs in a way to actively generate more heat in the VRMs, because they do not want people being able to use newer CPU's with older and cheaper motherboards, ebcause they want you to buy their newer more expensive motherboard which "works betetr with new tech"......... Do we think this is actually what is happening???
Also, water cooling seems like the best way to go to easily cool the MOSFETs but for the added cost you may as well just buy a higher end motherboard in the first place.... but I'm assuming the current passive heatsinks can be made more thermally efficient by replacing the thermal paste "bonding" them to the MOSFETs for a higher efficiency thermal paste... does anyone know how much cooler the MOSFETs will operate by doing this?
Have just purchased an IR thermometer so might have some fun with this tomorrow :)
PS: I really like the more scientific approach you have in your videos. Perhaps you can do a video on this if it helps people out... although if that is what motherboard manufacturers are doing then it's probably quite easy for them to program into the BIOS to have a VRM temperature setpoint for whichever CPU is being used instead of a voltage setpoint so as to effectively bypass the additional efforts made by anyone trying to improve their thermal efficiencies :(
I had old AMD setup and "new" i7-6700k + asus maximus viii ranger setup with VRM problems. it just reboot the machine when long game sessions. one 140mm fan to top of fractal R5 case near the VRM helped when using med or hi fan settings. Tested with prime95, without the fan it resets about in 3 minutes and with fan it run 30 mins and after that I stop the test.
Yo can you guys do a Maximus X Hero review? not seeing many of those that deep-dive it
So, should I keep mine? I just bought one, I am waiting for it to arrive. I have the 7080XE 18 core. I am planning on overclocking max to 4 or 3.8 ghz. I can't put any fans above or on the side of my case so I am a bit concerned now. I have the noctua 15. Dual fan.
What about replacing stock VRM heatsinks with something that has larger surface area (even stolen from sole older boards)?
Nazar Mokrynskyi or water cooling the vrm
Water cooling is obvious, but slapping some cheap generic heatsink with actual fins would be interesting.
@nazar
well it wouldn't fit of course, because old good mobo cooling was vrm to northbridge and to southbridge connected through heatpipes.
it would be a fun project to compare temps though and somehow fit it with bending stuff etc... :D
oh look the 10 year old cooling is 20 degrees betters :D
There are generic heasinks on ebay like for RAM/VRAM dies or something similar. I think it it possible to find something that will fit for very little comparing to motherboard cost.
@nazar mokrynskyi, but u don't want just one cooling part for vrm (although that would be interesting too)
on a proper mobo design u had setups like this:
images.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.anandtech.com%2Freviews%2Fmotherboards%2F2008%2Fasus-striker-ii-formula%2Fboardmain1.jpg&u=images.anandtech.com/reviews/motherboards/2008/asus-striker-ii-formula/boardmain1.jpg
it even came with an optional fan.
i mean look at that and compare it the cooling design the mobo from this video, it's a joke and x299 dual ram banks don't excuse that right?
Sorry for not being OT Steve, I really trust you and your opinions. So I wanted to ask could you let me know what hdd to get out of the wd lineup for an SSD hdd combo I have an m.2 but I need a storage disk that's big and it should be fast and WD's new lineup confuses me.
Do you think the evga ftw board for x299 will deliver Better vrm pefromance? It has cooling on the vrms and I'm curious on what you think.
Which sensor exactly should i looking for at the HWinfo/Adia64 for VRM temps?
I Got my R5 2400g running 3.9GHZ with 1.35V and 1500MHZ GPU with 1.1625V SOC Voltage, staying cool on the core with my 92mm t tower cooler.Mohterboard temps was 48C max during stress test with the stok wraith spire cooler with same CPU frequency. But now i am getting 48C idle motherboard temps with 55C while stress test. On gaming my motherboard temp is like 51C. Are these temperutes normal?
And where exactly the motherboard temperature sensor located for MSI B350 Tomahawk.?
I dont have something to measure VRM temps, but i did touch the VRM heatsink, its very hot but not that much hot like burning my finger, i assume there is no more 45C on top of the VRM heatsink. Could we say that my VRM temps is lower than 80-90C?
Now i havent got nice case airflow in my case 1 intake and 1 out. But i am waiting 4 new high airflow fans. I am using 92mm tower cooler and i am thinking to zip tie one these 120mm fans on the tower cooler and place it as low as possible. Or maybe using one of the usb powered flexible fans.
Like your videos. Good, accurate information with objective perspective.
By the way, thanks, Steve for improving your hair Steve 2014 to 2018.
EK has mono blocks that cover the VRMs which is the best alternitive
Too much knowledge, I cannot handle it. I will add some exhaust fans above vrm. Game over !😆
You know what? I watched this video in 2017 like almost one year ago and Now I AM WATCHING THIS AGAIN. THE INTRO AD IS "WOW" 750dollar GTX1080Ti. WOW. Where can I get one? ahahaha
Mono blocks covering the vrm? Wouldn’t that help cool the vrm?
And people wonder why I still use top down cpu coolers. My cpu may be a couple of degrees hotter, but the overall system temps are lower and the stability is higher.
Hey Steve, just asking for giggles; I know you use Discord, but how did you get that red light-up effect around the avatars? Was it a post-processing thing or did you extensively mod Discord?
At 16:25, instead of sticking a fan on a spike (:D) attach/hang a fan from the top of the case. Some cases have the top perfectly close enough for this. I did this on my rig even if only a Skylake i7-6700K, using an 80mm Be Quiet little fan, complete overkill, but a simple and inexpensive mod. Left it somewhat diagonally to go along with airflow coming from the front:
instagram.com/p/BbIBcp5nAOQ/
just buy the updates boards like the x299-xe gaming from asus (the updated version of the x299-e). everything is running good now - even with a bit oc still no problem
watching this in 2023 makes me happy about my i7 7700k runing 5GHz for years at 70c core and 83-89c VRM
Check out the Heat on the back plate of the CPU. Now that is hot. It seem like there should be a heat sink on the back plate of the CPU.
Years after this video and things have only gotten a lot worse, I just had to give up on a Z490 motherboard because Asus in all their wisdom decided that the Maximus Hero XII(a board that retails for over $500) should have a plastic box over their chipset heatsink. It forces the heat built up in there to escape right out under the two NVME slots there. Brilliant!!!!! If you want to slow cook your chipset and force the customer to buy a new part in a year or two this is a brilliant tactic. I can't think of any other really logical reason to design the board this way. They literally put a heatsink on a chip and then put a box over it with no design for airflow. Its terrible.
It seems like so far only Gigabyte is putting a fan on their VRM and a handful of AIOs like those from Arctic have fans on them to blow at the VRMs.
What is a safe temperature for the motherboard PCB better the VRM chokes and the CPU socket?
I have the Asus Rampage VI apex board. Im also running it with a EK monoblock. I had to remove the VRM cover to install this Monoblock. Will this solve this issue???? I would like to know because i'm in the middle of this build and am starting to figure i went the wrong direction! I would like to see test using the EK Monoblock! Please let us know if this will solve this issue! Thanks!!!
LOL ... "where we wanted to torture it."
84 c above ambient.... wwwwwwhat
also please make a t-shirt 'GN approved - not terrible'
Does it benefit by putting thermal pads? I'm using a laptop though
is this info still valid for ryzen 3? I saw my vrm's hit 87 today while playing diablo 3 of all games.
3700x, asrock x570 pro4, nh-d15, meshify c, 2 front intakes and 1 rear exhaust
does anyone know how effective the motherboard mono-blocks at keeping these temperatures from causing throttling?