Induction light - what's inside, schematic, experiments
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ต.ค. 2023
- Electrodeless induction fluorescent lamp fixture teardown. Disassembly, how does it work, what's inside the power supply, reverse engineering the schematic, showing the waveforms on oscilloscopes.
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This was a fascinating tear-down. Well worth the time. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Glad you enjoyed it ;)
Great comments as usual. These 200 watt electrode-less 5000k lamps can operate 7/24 and last up to 12 years continuously. The whole assembly's a bit complex, but the lifespan at 90+ lumens per watt with an excellent power factor, typical balanced fluorescent color spectrum and even light distribution, seems worth it for a low maintenance design that functions from a wide range of voltages found anywhere in the world. Nine of these on a single north american 120v 15amp circuit would give 162,000 lumens. 2 banks (18) could light a whole school gymnasium (with Plexiglas) for 25 years of maintenance free life, but the idiots pushing LED's say this is inefficient and must be thrown out? This is the evil of religious zealotry imposed over an already decaying civilisation.
I could not agree more! I am sick of replacing faulty led light fixtures and I am sick of exaggerated led light output claims. Led lights seem to offer good efficiency at low power levels (a few watts) but they don`t seem to scale well to higher powers where thousands of lumens are required.
I guess it always happens to the world when a new tech considered to be magic of some kind, that can solve all the problems. Sooner or later it would be balanced out, LEDs will become usual and its weaknesses will appear. Green lobbyists will be shocked right after a big mountain of disposed LED lamps grows all across the world. Humanity learns the hard way.
LEDs have better spectrum than most fluorescent tubes, and higher efficiency, like 150-200 lm/w....
But you can't just buy them. Most light fixtures have horrible LEDs that barely do 80 lm/w (because they are over driven to hell), shit CRI and awful drivers that put power factor above output light flicker.
So yes, some LEDs would be more efficient and have better CRI, but unfortunately it would get replaced with over-driven inefficient junk that flickers and would fail in 1000 hours.
Some LED fixtures have worse flicker than fluorescent fixtures with ordinary inductor ballast.
LED maniacs will also say that fluorescent lamps are toxic, but Codys Lab proved that putting your entire hand in elemental mercury will not give you poisoning. Only soluble mercury compounds are toxic, not the metal itself. And some LEDs contain gallium arsenide, its toxicity is comparable to mercury compounds.
@@Alex-mj7km Most LED fixtures are also terrible because the light source is integrated and not replaceable. 90+ CRI high quality fluorescent lamps were available but most people were fine with standard 80+ CRI ones and didn't pay for the extra price.
This light must be the ham radio killer
230kHz sine wave is probably better than 50kHz square wave with a lot of ringing.
Actually no. There are even 2.65 and 13.6 MHz induction lamps and everything worked fine.
It's because the induction ring has somewhat of a shealding
You are forgetting the Harmonic Frequencies.
And, a Square wave = every wave, Spark Gap Transmitter. RFI +
These cause a lot of interference on AM bands ime. Used them as grow lights a while back. They do have one advantage though. They have an extremely long service life ❤
Beautiful piece of engineering. This is 1000 times better than any short or tick-tock video. Thank you! I will order a lamp of this type to use at my workshop, after my bad experiences with LED outdoor lights. I really appreciate your time spent on this.
Preserve them properly, the driver and construction is wonderful, it is built to last.
Thanks for the disassembly, these lamps have always fascinated me for their great durability.
I definitely keep them :) my future vidoes might be recorded under them.
24:00 that's because an analog scope doesn't show you one-time events, like those random pulses on the digital scope. Or rather, it does show them to you, but the human eye cannot see them fast enough due to them not repeating in a certain pattern, like the gate drive signal. A digital scope shows you those because it first stores all the info it gets from the ADC, then it displays the info to you, including random pulses and noise. Also, the long vids are great, your vids always feel too short :)
Love it !
It's so cool that my home city is still using these type of lamps since 2016. Right now, they're still in operation and they haven't loss their brightness since. They're very robust and long lasting. Sadly, they're ever so slightly being replaced by LEDs.
You know its going to be a good day when diodegonewild uploads
Very interesting lamps, never seen them before. Thanks for making the detailed video.
Great video. I had never seen a lamp like this one. I have been working with electronics for thirty years, in my experience I have only had contact with a few examples from Eastern Europe because the machinery I used to maintain had parts from Hungary. Very interesting. As anyone can see, the cat is very concerned about your health.
Very cool and well constructed lamps, thanks for explaining us how they work!
You were straddling the Nyquist frequency which was giving you the frequency aliasing but you already know this! That light could almost be another retina burner!😂
I love that some random components are flopping around in the variac knob. Never change DGW!
Never heard of inductive lighting before. Thanks for sharing.
I am always happy to watch longer videos on your channel :D
Also, i really like all these teardowns :D
Induction lamps were used for street lighting for a brief period in the US.
Because these are 5000K, they would probably make great video lights.
Awesome video and teardown. Maybe one day you can get your hands on a sulfur lamp, I'm sure that would also make for a really interesting video.
Or you just build one with all the magnetrons you got ;)
Btw, at 19:41, you can see that they even printed the time when the board was manufactured or designed on the silkscreen (14:48:42)
Nice job! I was always fascinated by these. I liked the reverse engineering of the ballast. 😁
Great video. The lamp housings are very cool, the sort of lamp housings one often sees in restaurants for the "in" people. The length is fine with me, those shorts and tic-toc videos are clearly designed for those with a short attention span.
I don't think they use 200W fluorescent lamps in a restaurant :)
Those are heavy duty industrial lamps. For warehouses and factories and such probably. But nowadays it's fashionable to make low power lamps mimicking that look for some reason. I've seen them at IKEA where they had cheapish lamps but with about five 1/2" bolts to hold a plastic lampshade, and something like a six watt LED bulb.
@westelaudio943 Yes, it was the shades I was referring to and the type of restaurant is where they sandblast the walls back to brick and make an "industrial" look. And they end up with terrible acoustics - reverberation plus.
Really interesting!
I have never seen a lamp like that before.
Great video and very happy with the longer formats.
good teardown and explanation as always👍
Every time I learn something new. Thanks a lot for these videos.
I've been waiting for one of these types of videos with an induction lamp for so long!!
your videos make me smile. thank you!
Thank you for the best deep dive electronics channel on the planet.
Thanks a lot! Haven't seen these lamps ever in my life.
Thanks for this in-depth teardown and operation. I've always wanted to know how these things work and see the internals. As usual, great video.
I definitely prefer your videos, love it, keep going 😎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Very cool! I'd love to have one as a work light for my electronics bench. Great job on this video.
These lamps are far more reliable than most of the LED equivalents and can last up to 100,000hrs
What an awesome fixtures! Great build quality and technology, i didn't even knew there were light tubes electrodeless induction driven. I wish i could have a couple of them, you friend was pretty cool in give you those nice fixtures. I like to see that you refurbished one, very cool indeed. Also your videos are never to long, please keep going with your great work and content 👍
These have a very well made power supply. Most would be fried with operation with the wiring changes and open transformer. Also the wire coil in the glass pip is the ignition antenna. The plasma forms around that then ignites the rest of the lamp.❤
I like long videos because are more detailed one!Keep it up!
Thank you very much for the this long and very informative video (not like some crappie stuff on TikTok or shorts). I really appreciate your work. 👍 Merry Christmas 🎄
Very good - Thank you
Gave me 30 minutes of joy with 100% concentrated attention at 3:30 am Oct 30 2023
Those are my favourite videos. Thanks.
Great video as always
Watching from Africa.
The verdict? Nice!
as always nice video❤ watching from iran
Nice video,,,we need much longer videos👍👍
love the longer videos
Lol 9:16 random but I love it. "...and here is the dog."
28:00 I love how the autotransformer knob is used as a random parts bin :)
so entertaining and informative, thankss
So huge. Hope you have a large attic
Very interesting, keep it up. Like the Cat and the Dog as supervisors.
oh the crazy czech with the magnetron plasma speaker has a youtube channel, awesome, love your stuff :)
When I was younger I would have used these for growing special plants😂
Nice work.
Finally a SMPS video. Niceeee!
The next one will also be a SMPS, with a full schematic :)
@@DiodeGoneWildCan't wait to see it. I hope for a new topology that hasn't been already on your channel.
Very nice lamp, mine inductively coupled plasma functions in a similar way.
svaka cast na videu
Allways good!
what an incredible video! Such a promising technology was discarded by LEDs… and talking about fluorescents, when will you make the video about the Philips electronic starters that you showed in a past video? I am anxiously waiting
Really interesting, thank-you
22:30 you can also notice that the ON time here is nearly constant and that makes sense when you look at the boost converter topology and average input current.
long videos are always better than short ones. its impossible to get this deep into something with a shorter video
love the reference dog.
Dobrý pivo na začátku. :D (Nice beer at the beginning. :D)
Interesting video thanks
Supr video! Díky :)
🎉Great video 🎉
I like how you start the video with a fire extinguisher
Those are so cool. I've never heard of this tech before for some reason.
There were also rectangular ones. But induction lamps were never very common. For these high bay lamps, mercury vapor or metal hallide lamps were used way more commonly, and then LEDs came.
@@DiodeGoneWild Yeah that's pretty much what I've seen here in the states. I wonder if these were just too late to really catch on. I'd imagine they'd really only lose brightness as the phosphors age, I can't see much else that could go wrong with them aside from electrical issues
These are much older than you would think, developed by Nikola Tesla in the 1890s. He used both inductive and capacitive coupling.
Been subscribed to you for a long time now. When are you making a live?
They are very attractive light fixtures.
5000 K is blindingly bright.
I like the softer lighting around in the 3000 k Spectrum.
Fascinating teardown!
Thank you for the video & for a chance to see this type of Technology!👍
The 5000K is the color temperature not the brightness.
It's basically almost perfectly white light.
Not very cozy for a living room but perfect for studios and workshops.
not suitable for factories this lamps come from. Warm light 1800-3800K promotes feelings of sleepiness. 4000-4500K is neutral, suitable for work offices. Cool/daylight white 5000-6500K promotes sharpness, thus it gets used in critical workspaces where poeple need to stay focused.
Even in this era I think this lamp is still have their own place. They are is relatively compact, energy efficient, and doesn't require massive cooling like LED
Thanks great job
Plz experiment on strat tube light with these induction rings.
Thanks!!!
Because this fluorescent ring lamp does not have heated cathodes on its' end it is very difficult to see how it can possibly fail. Also there should be no darkening of ends for the same reason. No wires threaded through the glass should also add longevity. It looks like that design is well out of step with the 21-st century philosophy of "built-in obsolescence" which probably explains why it has been largely discarded.
The only way I can imagine it failing is the phosphor coating on the inside of the tube falling off after many decades of wear, producing blue light instead of white. It could also absorb the argon and mercury reducing the pressure and efficiency. As long as the tube is not cracked allowing air to get in, it should never fail completely.
Very nice. I think my city has bought some of these with the tiny bean in the middle for street lighting in the short period before LEDs. They are still running them! What has been bought is being used until it breaks or the supply of the lamps has depleted. German cities are more ecological and sustainable than German enterprises.
Those glass covers may be interesting for making a wimshurst machine.
Ďakujem za toto zaujímavé video, ani mi neprišlo nejako veľmi dlhé, ubehlo to rýchlo, lebo ma to bavilo, ja pozerám také elektronické videá, kde sa robí niečo konštruktívne, ako napríklad vysvetľuje nejaká teória, niečo sa rozoberá a vysvetľuje princíp činnosti, ako tu v tomto videu, ešte mám rád aj také videá, kde sa niečo vyrába alebo opravuje. Osobne ma nezaujímajú videá o elektronike, kde ide iba o "špeciálne efekty" ako napríklad odpaľovanie alebo rozbíjanie niečoho len tak pre zábavu, na prvý pohľad to môže vyzerať zaujímavo, ale podľa mňa sa také videá rýchlo opozerajú. A ešte by som chcel niečo povedať k tomu gate driver IO, prečo sa výrobca rozhodol použiť gate driver transformer (GDT), myslím si, že výrobca to urobil preto, aby bolo zariadenie spoľahlivejšie, čítal som niekde skúsenosti nejakého konštruktéra (už si vôbec nepamätám, kto to bol ani kde to bolo), že tieto IO pri budení horného MOSFET-u, kde musí byť použitý bootstrap kondenzátor a dióda, tak niekedy majú problémy so spoľahlivosťou, takže asi to výrobca vedel alebo mal sám s tým problémy pri vývoji, tak sa nakoniec rozhodol ísť "na istotu" a použil radšej GDT. A samozrejme sa veľmi teším na video, kde budeš opravovať časovú základňu toho osciloskopu Tesla, v poslednom videu o oprave tohto osciloskopu si myslím vravel, že bude ešte jedno video o oprave tej časovej základne.
Awesome!
for the high side FET i can see a few reasons why you want to use a transformer but for the lower one the only reason i can imagine is extra safety
OR control is somehow galvalicaly isolated itself from the lamp part
22:18 I think it's to make it a bit more bulletproof in overvoltage or similar cases. That transformer will 100% certainly lock out one mosfet while the other is running so that means a short is basically impossible. It will always fail just dead instead of failing smoked and spicy like a good dinner
Maybe
These reflectors are great industrial design, I'd find a way to reuse them.
You really gotta appreciate industrial electronics - basically indestructible, and when they're thrown away it's usually because the owner wants (or needs, due to regulations) something newer.
Great lamp
As for efficiency, the worst part about its bad for the enviroment crap is that they forbid the sale of it (from incondecent lights that are inefficient (although all the money u save on electricity u spend buying new lamps, because leds like everything else also break and cost twice as much), to flurescent tubes)
So even if I would like to use this its impossible to do so because I am unable to buy replacment parts
You will buy led for twice as much, and u will throw it out after a short time because we said so....
Hmm, some day led will be seen as inefficient....
"here's the dog for a reference" haha... How big is the dog?
80Lumen/Watt.... not bad....I think LEDs do close to100Lumen/watt
I wonder how much that lamp has lost over the years. Maybe that's why they replaced it?
I have a Lux meter, but no idea how to measure the Lumen output of a lamp... would make a nice follow-up video ;-)
Anyway. Big thank you for another outstanding video. No bells or whistles, but solid technical explanations... and a good dose of humor.. just as we like it !
I think this kind of bulb can surpass 100k hours of constant on-time, whereas the best LED bulbs (like the Dubai Lamp, maybe) do 50k but the best ones you can actually get are 25k at best. These induction lights would be better too since the only thing you replace in it is the phosphor tube if its gotten too dim, since I read they lose about 35% of their lumens after 60k hours, which is amazing. LEDs may be advertised to lose only 30% after 100k hours but we all know that no LED bulb will ever get anywhere close to that lifespan.
This light fixture would have been either impossible or huge if it's operating frequency was much lower!
I have seen a power transformer built in the early 1900's, designed to work on 25Hz.... It's bloody huge!
It just amazes me that a small transformer can put out the same power as a large one and the only difference needed is a difference in AC frequency!
LoL now you can have an induction light above your induction cooktop.... Nice 👍
Why did that give me this weird mental image, of someone fishing fluorescent tubes through gaps in a 750kVA transformer and trying to get them to light?
😄
What makes the clicking noise when there does not appear to be a electro-mechanical relay? All the best to my fave channel!
Probably the loose halves of the ferrite cores at a high current due to magnetic forces (or magnetostriction).
that big reflector would make a interesting topload for a tesla coil
Good idea :)
And you could use the induction lamp with the Tesla coil if the chinese power supply failed.
Классные светильники) Интересно какой у них ресурс.
Seen these in a few shops, even brightness between fixtures and good colour rendition. In theory last forever, don't know in practice.
In conventional ones, one of the cathode heaters eventually burns out, usually after tens of thousands of hours but the time largely depends on the number of on/off cycles. The starters usually last around 5 times as long as the tubes. Interesting to see how they mitigated these problems for a >100000 h lifetime. Apparently the most mature FL technology ever got.
The only way for these to fail is probably the phosphor falling off the glass after many decades of wear, producing blue light instead of white or absorbing mercury and argon reducing brightness. Unless the glass breaks it should never fail completely. There are some 100+ year old Geissler tubes in the world that still work. Neon signs with cold cathode can also last 70+ years,
I'm still waiting for microwave light overview. I've seen like an Australian guy has remelted such light fixture into inglot, unfortunately.
Good excellent
Ridiculous that those were replaced. They appear to be in good condition and likely would have served their purpose for years to come. Part of conserving resources is to use things for as long as possible or until replacing them with a more efficient option pays back the resource investment within a short period. Today, people will simply make more trash while pretending that it's beneficial.
The Apocalyptic Inventor also criticizes our tendency to pretend that consumption is conservation. After all, there are still morons installing solar roadway demonstrations at taxpayer expense in multiple countries; human intelligence is itself endangered.
In Poland we say "start from the ass side" but in this case ass site is front of lamp, where You start 😂 You should first disconnect the tube wires from the rear of lamp. Best regards from PL.😊
These were killed off by false advertising of LEDs. The main thing was that LED manufacturers claimed 100,000 hours life with no lumen depreciation, whilst "fluorescent" they said only 20,000 hours with 50% depreciation
These were blatent lies, but clever marketing made it into urban myth.
However the BIG thing was that LED suppliers bypassed Lighting Engineers and sold direct to end users. That meant they could tell them whatever BS they liked and nobody called them on it. This resulted in fluorescent being replaced with an inferior product (which is still inferior even today for commercial lighting).
How long does it take you to reverse engineere schematics like that. Do you trace it out on the board or do it with the continuity on the multimiter, or maybie even measure sone voltages for chips or on transistors to know how ot works? Or do you already know how the schematic could look like? Just asking so I could learn that too. I bet it takes a lot of time and patience.
Also you make great videos, doing diy stuff the normal way without any flashing rgb leds and trash like that wich wastes your time power and money. You give schematics and explanations of them and I like to learn from you. The best thing is that you often make your own solutions without fancy chips like others, but rather transistors and op amps (like current limiting for example) and basically discrette components wich are or arent salvaged.
In the medieval times like 20 years ago Tungsram in Hungary was developing induction lamps.
Now both inductions lamps and Tungsram are gone (partly thanks to GE I guess).
Beautiful lamp that!
Would love to see the spectrum, assuming it would similar to a regular florescent?
It's probably about the same as regular fluorescent tubes. It's just that the power gets into it differently.
The spectrum is dependant on the phosphors used. There were many high quality European fluorescent and induction lamps (Philips, Oxfam, etc), and they could have very high CRI if that was desirable.
However, the Chinese make clones that were compromised in various ways to reduce costs, especially in the phosphors... that didn't mean that they told the truth about that of course!
Usually (for the typical use case for thess) it was better to sacrifice some CRI to increase efficacy, like with LEDs. The lower the CRI, the higher the efficacy, since any phosphor conversion has a
It looks like this GDT circuit is similar to the one using IC TL 494., isolated and safe.
"Here's the dog for reference" he says, as if the dog was a totally ordinary unit of measurement
Please make a review of bidirectional technology in solar inverter like voltronic
👍
Non exposing side need internal reflective coating. Why circular section tube? Thin flat rectangular section is more efficient.
At first I thought this would be a sulphur lamp, but sadly not as I have yet to see one in operation.