@@derritter3873 have you used them recently there fucking hit sim i mean when i cut a line through a migs wing with my 20mm and it does jack shit i tend to say its trash
@@theblacksplit aim9m require more effort, positioning and flares to be flared off. But gatewidth irccm like the magic 2 or r73 are unflarable in close range except frontal aspect
Problem with F104 wasn't its good performance but the planes it was fighting against. Ruining the performance only means that the people flying this plane have even less incentive to actually turn and fight. Now all they are going to do is fly straight and not get into a single dog fight.
@@Pvt_Wade I'm sorry, I play the game to have fun and to me, having fun is dogfighting. I don't find someone riding my ass and me trying to run away from them fun. F104 is not a dog fighter, but I still try to do what I can to stay in the fight instead of zooming away at Mach fuck-off at the slightest bit of trouble. It was already a complaint from the player base that F104s are annoying to fight because all they do is constantly fuck off. What do you think will happen now?
God I want the ASA to move down, everything that was good about the starfighter is just completely thrown out the window when you compete with straight up better jets
0:25, a hunter F.1 lmao. Love how it still is at the same BR, facing supersonic jets with missiles, whilst it is subsonic, no flares, no missiles, and on paper has the same turn time as the F-104A, nice
@@h.a8681 NASA Reference Publication 1042 "Performance Evaluation Method for Dissimilar Aircraft Designs" pg. 46, Figure 28. the new Oswald efficiency factor is now closer to the F-104 turning with landing flaps and gear down irl
@@h.a8681it's the only plane in the game that can only pull it's historically accurate G's, every other plane gets a 2-3g buff to its flight model. It also bleeds way too much speed than historical when turning now
@@sageg58 That’s not true I read the bug reports and they have accounted for that. In real life it would fly even worse. It is now “historical” as in it flies how it should even with the additional buffs given to planes in war thunder
Why wouldn't it be? There is far less surface area to catch drag. It really doesn't make sense considering the design goal was to make the f104 be as quick as possible eith as little drag as possible but gaijin like with the tow2b said "no, die"
@casematecardinal i get what you're saying, and I'm by no means knowledgeable when it comes to physics and aerodynamics, but doesn't that low drag also come with a literally non existent amount of lift? I mean it literally has no wings, but then again I don't know how oswald efficiency is calculated so i could absolutely be wrong. Regardless though this is more a comment on the Su 27's dogshit flight model more than anything, I find it hilarious that the Su 27 and F 15 are supposed to be very close in terms of flight performance irl yet the Su 27 has an Oswald efficiency factor of 0.45 and the F 15 has a Oswald efficiency factor of 0.81
I can say that while I do welcome this nerf, it has completely ruined the higher BR 104s. I played the German 104G yesterday so I could get the 2000lb bomb, and it was pure pain trying to do any sort of maneuvering and getting the gun on target. I’m still feel that they could have instead of nerfing the entire 104 line into the ground like this, they could have merged the flight model less and moved the American 104s up to 9.7. But for some reason, there is some conspiracy in Gaijin HQ to keep the A/C at 9.3.
i'm kind of surprised people still think this, but gaijin doesn't try to balance the game by giving vehicles arbitrary fm changes. they only make changes to the fm of a plane when they believe that the current fm isn't inline with how its irl counterpart performed.
@@flynntaggart8549 there is nothing realistic about nerfing a plane by having its wings generate more drag arbitrarily especially when it was designed not to do that. Even if the fm was overperforming it's irl which it wasn't at least to the sort of degree the mig23 was, nerfing it's ability to even stay in the air is idiotic.
on a side note; why even bother getting bombs for the 104G other than to spade it? f104 is a terrible pick for ground RB when the phantoms are right after with much better ground ordinance
@@1nv15BL3 I actually liked f104s taf a lot before the nerf. It reliably destroyed bases (especially after napalm buff) and still had enough missiles to do 2-3 easy kills almost every match. It was good SL and RP grinder for me.
Played the ASA today, i reached mach 1.2 pretty easily on the deck with only aim 9Ls. If you want to bomb there aren't many problems The improved engine does its work and helps you keep speed
@@RylanTempleton-w5l it wouldn't even be bad if the su-27 was accurate, it really can only beat the F-16 and F-15 in a dogfight reliably if 1. it's a slow speed fight 2. The su-27 gets them into an AOA fight. The Eagle and Viper are mainly built to turn at a certain speed threshold and dominate it. which is why American never bothered with Cobra maneuvers
@@seskorirkeashimrui3556 I mean let's be real irl the Su-27 is THE air superiority fighter. Flanker series are the best 4th Generation fighters based on combat performance
I really want to enjoy the F-104S and S.ASA, so much so that i just hunkered down and tried every single playstyle until i found one that worked for me. This absolute demolition of an update makes a difficult but rewarding plane to use into an absolutely horrendous experience that i wouldn't wish upon my biggest enemy. I really hope Gaijin sees some sense and does a rebalance of the planes.
Flight model nerfs to hit the overperforming 9.3 versions, which inevitably make the 10.7+ versions even more insufferable to play (looking at you midtaly). Clearly, why would anyone want to hotfix the wonderful, great, fun BR adjustments! It's way too early for that!
People bitch about the 9.3 F-104s but they really aren't that strong, I can't even remember the last time I got killed by a 104 at 9.3. You have to either be going 2 mph and stalled or throw your brain out of your head to get killed by one. I'd argue the Mig 19 at 9.3 is better than the 9.3 104s and no one bitches about the Mig 19 lol
Same awful thing they did to MiG-29, MiG-23 and Su-27. I hate how Gaijin's way of balancing things is "make it not fun to play". I used to love the F-104G but then they constantly uptiered it and now ruined the flight model. I want them to add the MiG-25 but it seems they're skipping over it for some reason.
I think its time to bring up the lightning needing a buff considering it would go supersonic after taking off (in a vertical climb) yet my jaguar has a higher acceleration to mach 1 in a climb
The Mirage IIIc also has an effective radar missile you can run into at 9.3 sometimes with the R530. Dunno if the radar is J-band or not. You don’t run into them often enough for the RWR to be worthwhile either way though.
I band, but the radar missiles at this BR are very easy to fool, just 1 puff of chaff and you're good. RWR is mostly useful because a lot of noobs don't turn off their radar rangefinder and gives you a steady beeeeeeeeeeep when they're behind you thinking they're sneaky
Thats awesome, ive been grinding for the 104C(my favorite jet fighter ever) aince they were added and now that i finally have the 104a half researched they go slam it with a nerf
Pretty much how it felt, I unlocked my first F-104 while grinding for the F-14 event and when I unlocked it all I got matched into were 10.3 matches where everyone hyper focuses you for daring to fly a F-104
@@theBrid-gv8jethis is the comment I was looking for, yea the f104a may be 9.3 but in my experience I never fly in my tier and am bound to eat missiles for dearing to stick in a fight, gotta love not being able to run away now either.
W-wait a minute. I'm a F-104C... wait.... DOES THAT MEAN I'M YOUR FAVORITE PLANE? Character shenanigans aside, nice. My favorite F-104 to play was the 104C but it's been a really long time sense I last played it
Gentlemen....we are now entirely, in all sense, genuinely, utterly, and ultimately speed sticks. We can no longer afford to turn. Start up the Motley Crue national speeding anthem. We are now straight line dragsters.
To be fair the F104 would absolutely bleed a ton of speed and it's lift during turns. It was historically a tricky plane to fly. This update really kind of brings it in line with reality speaking strictly of the flight model
It actually wasn't. It had tough low speed handling characteristics but st combat speed It was well regarded especially by those who flew it often and actually understood hoe to fly it. The people who knew were American national guard flying them over Europe. Apparently one was able to beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight. This update just made it worse in was that don't make sense to bring it to a standard that is far bellow how anything else in game is balanced. It's bad gaijin coding.
@casematecardinal THANK YOU for understanding that WE STARFIGHTERS actually good. Seriously God damn... The only reason the F-104s are considered "horrible to fly" is because the Germans didn't know how to fly us properly. The crashes and deaths stopped when the US taught the Germans to fly us starfighters better... Jesus christ
No, it isn't. It already didn't dogfight, it could just turn around in a somewhat timely matter without becoming useless. Also anecdotal evidence suggests an f104 pilot beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight over eastern Europe though it wasn't necessary a guns on type fight.
@casematecardinal I mean historically not in game. Historically those things were basically manned missiles, boom and zoom on enemy bombers type shit. Or in the Canadian sector, one way nuclear bomb delivery vehicles
The thing has zero wing - the fact that both it's sustained and instantaneous turn rates seems right to me. It sucks to have your favourite planes nerfed but it sounds historically accurate to me.
As someone who has almost 100-200 hours in the F104 ASA I truly believe it should not face F-16s, Su-27s ect. 11.7 is good as it doesn’t face the top of top tier but it isn’t too low to curbstomp 10.3 aircraft. Balancing the ASA has always been a problem as wherever gajin moves it- it either performs awful or it curbstomps the enemy team
There we go again! The Snail simply can't stay away from it, even if they know it is suicidal. It's like a power trip, like an addiction that you know is going to destroy you, but that you cannot simply leave alone. It's so sad...
Hated my F104J when I first played it, after getting accustomed to it and how to play at 10.3 I started to love it. Now I feel like im flying a super sonic oil tanker, except I think the oil tanker could pull better AoA and maintain energy better.
thought I'd ask here because I still haven't found anyone talking as recently about the f104s, but is there a new "guide" to the f104s like the J and G (asking because I just got the f104j for the first time and it has been a horrendous experience) and since you're the most recent guy talking about f104s I thought I'd ask here
F104A without IR missiles is straight up unplayable, You either turn to aim guns and bleed energy so fast and die to ennemy IR missiles OR you keep flying straige and you do nothing
Honestly not the worst thing ever because the only time I see people playing the f104 is at 9.3. Playing it at higher brs is really just not gonna go well even before the nerf. They could definitely reduce the br of the higher tier f104s now but the more capable missiles makes running away simply not a viable option.
i dont mind ASA at 12.0 but give it a workable RWR ! Lot of jets dont have a "visual" RWR yet they have one on the UI ! Only ASA is punished like that !
If the nerfs are historically accurate, then I'm fine with it. But the higher BR F-104s need to come down since their flight performance got massacred.
naturally, as soon as im 40k rp from the f-104 it gets a big nerf. also the only thing going for the f-104 is its speed so they nerf its speed, so now at higher brs it has nothing going for it
Yeah the S.ASA needs to be dropped to 11.3, tho this is W nerf for the Alpha Model Starfighters that are stationed at 9.3 definitely somewhat better to fight against, however, your right modernized Starfighters should be dropped like the S.ASA to 11.3 or 11.7, which is worse than MiG-23ML that sits at 11.7 either or works basically, it still has to face F-14's regardless that's another thing but if you move the F-104G's to 10.7 and F-104J's & S's that are AIM-9J (Jankie) haulers to 11.0 that would be solid change to balance out the nerf. The J's and S's were already suffering since the battle rating compression was introduced.
10.0 would maybe be a bit much since the j7 is at 11.0 and that would be a pretty unfair match up. just generla decompression and a slight br increase for it would have solved the issues
@@kingghidorah8106 Still, even with the J7E gone, 10.0 would be too much. No flareless plane with 2 AIM9Bs should be that high. 9.7 would be more reasonable, as imo it's not better than the T2 or MiG-21S. The F8U can go straight to 10.7 though, It deserves it. And while we're at it, we can put the F4C back down to 10.0, it's suffered enough.
Kinda sad about this nerf, but at the same time not really because the 104 A and C were (and probably still are) totally busted at 9.3. I always played the C over the A because of the extra utility it has. Now having 4 9B's is all the more reason to play it instead. If Gaijin were to move the 104A & C up, I'd like to see countermeasures. 10.0 is where you start to see those all aspect heatseekers that you just can't pull out of. An uptier in a 104 is already a death sentence.
I really didn't have a good time spading the F-104J (my first F-104.) No flares at that BR is incredibly cursed. This change might make it unplayable for me.
Looks like the chinese f 104g is now worse, if not the worst. You meet all aspect 30g missiles IN A DOWNTIER and irccms in an uptier, and its not even a full uptier. I feel sorry for anyone who has to play flareless planes at 10.0+
in reality it was a awful plane, not because its was simply bad but because how unforgiving it was, it had barely any turn performance and also at low speeds it basically became a falling stick, it would also compress pretty hard on a dive and seemed to be very sensitive to flight input resulting in a lot of pilot error. this shows how awful gaijin's flight models are and sometimes have 0 resemblance to the real life vehicle.
@@goldfishPACIFIER wrong. The only thing about it that really hurt was low speed and that was simply because it was more susceptible to tip stalls. People who knew how to fly it, loved it. You are spouting the common illinformed "hur dur widow maker" bs.
@@casematecardinal never talked about the widow maker shit, I said that it was very unforgiving, and it was also very sensitive that induced a lot of pilot error
why does it feel as if this is gonna cause the F-104 to somehow become the worst 9.3 and get killed by everything soviet that has a hint of speed and turn edit: ah, nevermind, anything above the 9.3 ones are gonna shit the bed instead
I cant understand gaijin... They wont touch anything that is problematic (top tier in general), but they will touch and mess stuff up thats already mediocre/awful. So now having to use the f104 for example italy is now even more of a chore and a sureway of losing your sanity...
Just to be clear, when I say the ROC 104G if it gets flares should stay at 10.7, I mean the other 104Gs should go there too :)
Im not gonna lie its a major skill issue at 8.3 i mean seriously there easy to kill they will head on and they will die
@@MTF-EPSILON-11-5-NULLHeading on a vulcan? Thats the last thing you wanna do against an f 104.
@@martinwellhoefer9159 oh please we all know American 20mm hurts on a blue moon
@@MTF-EPSILON-11-5-NULLwho is “we”? I don’t think anyone besides you thinks the 20mm Vulcan is weak.
@@derritter3873 have you used them recently there fucking hit sim i mean when i cut a line through a migs wing with my 20mm and it does jack shit i tend to say its trash
Pp plane got circumcised
Lol
Wat did i just read
I hate reading that
... I hate that this works lol
Jesus
7:00 thought F-104 got AoA nerf bro just hits a cobra
I’m happy someone else noticed that moment
😂
Thanks for telling us this, I re watch that moment and I'm just giggling.
And yet we still haven’t gotten the IRST on the F-104s, Sad!
Gaijin: Hmmmm F-104A&C broken? Let's kill every other model!
The F-4C still drowning in IRCCM missiles in the background.
@@nercksrule F-4C is one of those planes that don't care about IRCCM missiles, mainly because it can't flare any to begin with
@@HighRiskVr73 and magic 2 could be flared. 9m no way
@@theblacksplitAll of them can be flared, it's just that the 9M takes much more flares to be fooled.
@@theblacksplit aim9m require more effort, positioning and flares to be flared off. But gatewidth irccm like the magic 2 or r73 are unflarable in close range except frontal aspect
Problem with F104 wasn't its good performance but the planes it was fighting against. Ruining the performance only means that the people flying this plane have even less incentive to actually turn and fight. Now all they are going to do is fly straight and not get into a single dog fight.
but that is what it was designed for
So fly it correctly?
F104 cant dogfight lol
you bring shame upon colonel 100's image by that "F-104 should dogfight" statement
@@Pvt_Wade I'm sorry, I play the game to have fun and to me, having fun is dogfighting. I don't find someone riding my ass and me trying to run away from them fun.
F104 is not a dog fighter, but I still try to do what I can to stay in the fight instead of zooming away at Mach fuck-off at the slightest bit of trouble.
It was already a complaint from the player base that F104s are annoying to fight because all they do is constantly fuck off. What do you think will happen now?
God I want the ASA to move down, everything that was good about the starfighter is just completely thrown out the window when you compete with straight up better jets
the adv is the better 12.0 itlian jet and that's a sad thing seeing that if anyone chooses to focus you your dead. (you cant notch quick enough)
0:25, a hunter F.1 lmao. Love how it still is at the same BR, facing supersonic jets with missiles, whilst it is subsonic, no flares, no missiles, and on paper has the same turn time as the F-104A, nice
you must have some shitty wifi because thats a f58, a very good plane for its br
@@goldfishPACIFIER it is i love it but still hate playing against good f104 players in it
That’s a F.58, it has flares, Mavericks, renamed export 9Js.
@@warthunderclipper mb, 0:24
@@warthunderclipper and anyway that proves my point, those two can face each other....
Waiting for my F-104S-ASA to go down to 11.3, or get AIM-9Ms
lore accurate f104 asa have aim9m and a better radar
@@uh8705 And ECM if Gaijin ever bothers to implement that into the game.
@@C0mmunistBalls Do you really want it to be 12.3-12.7 with those aim-9m to always face fox 3?
@@-..----.--.-... the US now got AIM-9Ms at 11.3 with the new A-10C
@@romanszwarc3288 Yes, and it's undertiered. And it's a-10...
Man I love how the snail just kills planes instead of decompressing the brs
deserved
This is historically how the plane flew, its FM before was a joke
@@h.a8681 NASA Reference Publication 1042 "Performance Evaluation Method for Dissimilar Aircraft Designs" pg. 46, Figure 28. the new Oswald efficiency factor is now closer to the F-104 turning with landing flaps and gear down irl
@@h.a8681it's the only plane in the game that can only pull it's historically accurate G's, every other plane gets a 2-3g buff to its flight model. It also bleeds way too much speed than historical when turning now
@@sageg58 That’s not true
I read the bug reports and they have accounted for that. In real life it would fly even worse.
It is now “historical” as in it flies how it should even with the additional buffs given to planes in war thunder
Oswald efficiency still higher than the Su 27 aswell lmao
Yeah, that is crazy
Why wouldn't it be? There is far less surface area to catch drag. It really doesn't make sense considering the design goal was to make the f104 be as quick as possible eith as little drag as possible but gaijin like with the tow2b said "no, die"
The su27 powers through turns with engine thrust, the f104 does it with both engine power and low drag
@casematecardinal i get what you're saying, and I'm by no means knowledgeable when it comes to physics and aerodynamics, but doesn't that low drag also come with a literally non existent amount of lift? I mean it literally has no wings, but then again I don't know how oswald efficiency is calculated so i could absolutely be wrong. Regardless though this is more a comment on the Su 27's dogshit flight model more than anything, I find it hilarious that the Su 27 and F 15 are supposed to be very close in terms of flight performance irl yet the Su 27 has an Oswald efficiency factor of 0.45 and the F 15 has a Oswald efficiency factor of 0.81
@@casematecardinal Su-27's real oswald's number is estimated to be 0.71
I can say that while I do welcome this nerf, it has completely ruined the higher BR 104s. I played the German 104G yesterday so I could get the 2000lb bomb, and it was pure pain trying to do any sort of maneuvering and getting the gun on target.
I’m still feel that they could have instead of nerfing the entire 104 line into the ground like this, they could have merged the flight model less and moved the American 104s up to 9.7. But for some reason, there is some conspiracy in Gaijin HQ to keep the A/C at 9.3.
It’s a nerf for the sake of nerfing it, it’s more of a fix of an overperforming plane compared to its IRL performance
i'm kind of surprised people still think this, but gaijin doesn't try to balance the game by giving vehicles arbitrary fm changes. they only make changes to the fm of a plane when they believe that the current fm isn't inline with how its irl counterpart performed.
@@flynntaggart8549 there is nothing realistic about nerfing a plane by having its wings generate more drag arbitrarily especially when it was designed not to do that. Even if the fm was overperforming it's irl which it wasn't at least to the sort of degree the mig23 was, nerfing it's ability to even stay in the air is idiotic.
@@flynntaggart8549lmao... Keep being naive..
on a side note; why even bother getting bombs for the 104G other than to spade it? f104 is a terrible pick for ground RB when the phantoms are right after with much better ground ordinance
Now they crushed all the high tier Italy F104 😭, also the people that bought the F104S TAF are now screwed
@@1nv15BL3 I actually liked f104s taf a lot before the nerf. It reliably destroyed bases (especially after napalm buff) and still had enough missiles to do 2-3 easy kills almost every match. It was good SL and RP grinder for me.
An f104 should not be base attacking anyway,thats strike fighter job @@СалаватАбашев-е6щ
Played the ASA today, i reached mach 1.2 pretty easily on the deck with only aim 9Ls.
If you want to bomb there aren't many problems
The improved engine does its work and helps you keep speed
So, before this nerf, the su-27 oswald's number was almost 2 times less, than of the frickin f-104? This is insane
The f104 has tiny very aerodynamic wings and no body lift. It's kind of the point.
@@casematecardinal Su-27's real oswald's number is estimated to be 0.71
Too many American mains would complain if the su-27 wasn’t anything other than a flying air brake
@@RylanTempleton-w5l it wouldn't even be bad if the su-27 was accurate, it really can only beat the F-16 and F-15 in a dogfight reliably if
1. it's a slow speed fight
2. The su-27 gets them into an AOA fight.
The Eagle and Viper are mainly built to turn at a certain speed threshold and dominate it. which is why American never bothered with Cobra maneuvers
@@seskorirkeashimrui3556 I mean let's be real irl the Su-27 is THE air superiority fighter. Flanker series are the best 4th Generation fighters based on combat performance
It bleeds way too much speed than it realistically should. They should have just raised the BR
I’ve been begging gaijin for a year now to change the 104s Asa. This was not what I had in mind. Top tier 104 players stayin in suicide watch.
I really want to enjoy the F-104S and S.ASA, so much so that i just hunkered down and tried every single playstyle until i found one that worked for me. This absolute demolition of an update makes a difficult but rewarding plane to use into an absolutely horrendous experience that i wouldn't wish upon my biggest enemy.
I really hope Gaijin sees some sense and does a rebalance of the planes.
Flight model nerfs to hit the overperforming 9.3 versions, which inevitably make the 10.7+ versions even more insufferable to play (looking at you midtaly).
Clearly, why would anyone want to hotfix the wonderful, great, fun BR adjustments! It's way too early for that!
Good to hear. The higher tier F-104s need a bit of BR tweaking now, but the 9.3s definitely needed a massive nerf.
for real
I mean they will definitely go down in br the way gaijin does it. Most people suck at flying them anyways including me lmao
There should be the planned br changes sometime in september-october iirc
Yeah, the f-104 was soooo manueverable
People bitch about the 9.3 F-104s but they really aren't that strong, I can't even remember the last time I got killed by a 104 at 9.3. You have to either be going 2 mph and stalled or throw your brain out of your head to get killed by one. I'd argue the Mig 19 at 9.3 is better than the 9.3 104s and no one bitches about the Mig 19 lol
I love how gaijin's response to anything now is to just add impossible amounts of drag to a flight model. RIP f104s and varks
Same awful thing they did to MiG-29, MiG-23 and Su-27. I hate how Gaijin's way of balancing things is "make it not fun to play". I used to love the F-104G but then they constantly uptiered it and now ruined the flight model. I want them to add the MiG-25 but it seems they're skipping over it for some reason.
Gaijin need to adopt the afterburner tied to that skin around the middle of the video, looks a million times better than the default one.
TY for continuing to put out content that is well thought out and generally not overly-dramatic.
@@axm2689 I do my best
This just turned the f-104 into a SL repair hole.
I've been wondering why I'm losing 200-300km/h of speed pulling less than 3-g turns.
Its wings are literally that small to reduce drag so they don’t rip themselves off, this change makes no sense most people can’t even fly that thing😂
Andddd they nerfed my favorite plane never been more glad to have stopped playing recently
I think its time to bring up the lightning needing a buff considering it would go supersonic after taking off (in a vertical climb) yet my jaguar has a higher acceleration to mach 1 in a climb
I hate to say it, but, it has been long awaited especially for the 104A and C. Maybe the 9.3 bracket can get *some* breathing room
bracket still sees plenty of other supersonics, all-aspects and magics. nerfing the 104's MER is a bandaid on a broken arm.
Mig-19 still exists so not really
@@bish189wow 120 round 2 r3 plane so brokeeeen
@@ryssa2409yeah its very good
@@ryssa2409 yeah and the best flight performance until you get to 10.7
Dude every plane I try to spade gets nerfed, first the F16ADF then the F4J, NOW THE F104A/C
Tried to play the F104A this morning, got ran down by a lightning and ate a red top, had no chance of dodging it
good. the f104a and c have been evil gods long enough
GOOD
@@miquelescribanoivars5049 shut the H E L L up. The f104 is far away from the reason 9.3 is broken.
0:09 6 Nations* USA, Germany, Japan, China, Italy, and France :)
Oh yeah! France! Completely forgot lol
@@GeneralLee2000 As a French main, I haven't seen one youtuber talk about the French f-104G...
The Mirage IIIc also has an effective radar missile you can run into at 9.3 sometimes with the R530. Dunno if the radar is J-band or not. You don’t run into them often enough for the RWR to be worthwhile either way though.
I band, but the radar missiles at this BR are very easy to fool, just 1 puff of chaff and you're good. RWR is mostly useful because a lot of noobs don't turn off their radar rangefinder and gives you a steady beeeeeeeeeeep when they're behind you thinking they're sneaky
@@pepebeezon772 Good point, I turn off radar by default usually since I'm used to trying to sneak around a sim map without being found...
@@pepebeezon772 what chaff could most planes at that BR puff?
@@fineline2212 chaff is just chaff bro
@@pepebeezon772 yeah and most planes at 9.3 dont have it, bro
Thats awesome, ive been grinding for the 104C(my favorite jet fighter ever) aince they were added and now that i finally have the 104a half researched they go slam it with a nerf
Pretty much how it felt, I unlocked my first F-104 while grinding for the F-14 event and when I unlocked it all I got matched into were 10.3 matches where everyone hyper focuses you for daring to fly a F-104
@@theBrid-gv8jethis is the comment I was looking for, yea the f104a may be 9.3 but in my experience I never fly in my tier and am bound to eat missiles for dearing to stick in a fight, gotta love not being able to run away now either.
W-wait a minute. I'm a F-104C... wait.... DOES THAT MEAN I'M YOUR FAVORITE PLANE?
Character shenanigans aside, nice. My favorite F-104 to play was the 104C but it's been a really long time sense I last played it
Me, a British jet sufferer:
Hmm, interesting. Anyway back to my Hunter line 💀
Gentlemen....we are now entirely, in all sense, genuinely, utterly, and ultimately speed sticks. We can no longer afford to turn. Start up the Motley Crue national speeding anthem. We are now straight line dragsters.
I knew when i was spading the f-104C, something felt way off
To be fair the F104 would absolutely bleed a ton of speed and it's lift during turns. It was historically a tricky plane to fly. This update really kind of brings it in line with reality speaking strictly of the flight model
It actually wasn't. It had tough low speed handling characteristics but st combat speed It was well regarded especially by those who flew it often and actually understood hoe to fly it. The people who knew were American national guard flying them over Europe. Apparently one was able to beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight. This update just made it worse in was that don't make sense to bring it to a standard that is far bellow how anything else in game is balanced. It's bad gaijin coding.
@casematecardinal THANK YOU for understanding that WE STARFIGHTERS actually good. Seriously God damn...
The only reason the F-104s are considered "horrible to fly" is because the Germans didn't know how to fly us properly. The crashes and deaths stopped when the US taught the Germans to fly us starfighters better... Jesus christ
@@casematecardinal Claims like this really need a source
@@casematecardinalAgainst Mig-23?? Total bullshit
I had to scroll a really long way down to find a comment addressing the historical accuracy
good thing too hear when I'm researching my first F104
The F104S TAF was already comically bad at 11.3 with constant uptiers, now it's just ridiculous.
Man I just started grinding china air, was stoked to finally try a 9.3 star fighter. Been playing since the f86 was top tier and never touched it
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOO
no more overpowered as hell F104 and it fianlly gets a realistic flight model
I miss the golden era of the F104, when you could carry SAHR with gun
I just unlocked the Italian 104S; guess I shouldn't waste SL to crew it!
Oh no, Gaijin nerfing aircraft? What a rare and outrageous occurrence.
Wait wait wait... An Oswald efficiency number of 0.47?! Holy induced drag batman.
I thought that the f 104 was kind if well known for its insane acceleration and high speed handleing in real life?
To be fair, this is how the plane SHOULD fly. Its a super sonic dart interceptor. It does NOT dogfight.
Well it also doesn't get a lot of induced drag
No, it isn't. It already didn't dogfight, it could just turn around in a somewhat timely matter without becoming useless. Also anecdotal evidence suggests an f104 pilot beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight over eastern Europe though it wasn't necessary a guns on type fight.
@casematecardinal I mean historically not in game. Historically those things were basically manned missiles, boom and zoom on enemy bombers type shit. Or in the Canadian sector, one way nuclear bomb delivery vehicles
you cant even fucking turn your gun onto targets anymore man!!!
I wondered why I saw you in an F-104 the other day
Haha yup, was getting footage for this. Good to see ya man!
The thing has zero wing - the fact that both it's sustained and instantaneous turn rates seems right to me. It sucks to have your favourite planes nerfed but it sounds historically accurate to me.
the Chinese F104G NEEDS to go down, and has needed to go down since the BR changes
Damn that skinned 104, Gaijin really needs to hire those Afterburner Skin guys
In the next episode: F-104 efficiency stats decrease overall, gaijin moves them to 9.0
I'm gonna kms. Literally just got the ASaa
Plz don't, I gib u better premium
You have amx and mig-21mf to grind to rank 8
As someone who has almost 100-200 hours in the F104 ASA I truly believe it should not face F-16s, Su-27s ect. 11.7 is good as it doesn’t face the top of top tier but it isn’t too low to curbstomp 10.3 aircraft. Balancing the ASA has always been a problem as wherever gajin moves it- it either performs awful or it curbstomps the enemy team
There we go again! The Snail simply can't stay away from it, even if they know it is suicidal. It's like a power trip, like an addiction that you know is going to destroy you, but that you cannot simply leave alone. It's so sad...
Hated my F104J when I first played it, after getting accustomed to it and how to play at 10.3 I started to love it. Now I feel like im flying a super sonic oil tanker, except I think the oil tanker could pull better AoA and maintain energy better.
Lol as a german main i feel that
thought I'd ask here because I still haven't found anyone talking as recently about the f104s, but is there a new "guide" to the f104s like the J and G (asking because I just got the f104j for the first time and it has been a horrendous experience) and since you're the most recent guy talking about f104s I thought I'd ask here
the change to the flight model also means you can pull more aoa with less g forces
I'm just pissed they removed ccip from the German F84 right before I unlocked it 😣
F104A without IR missiles is straight up unplayable, You either turn to aim guns and bleed energy so fast and die to ennemy IR missiles OR you keep flying straige and you do nothing
All I’m hearing is, we’re gonna see a lot more lightnings
My poor f104S TAF
Honestly not the worst thing ever because the only time I see people playing the f104 is at 9.3. Playing it at higher brs is really just not gonna go well even before the nerf. They could definitely reduce the br of the higher tier f104s now but the more capable missiles makes running away simply not a viable option.
i dont mind ASA at 12.0 but give it a workable RWR ! Lot of jets dont have a "visual" RWR yet they have one on the UI ! Only ASA is punished like that !
5:00 "FATHER, I CRAVE THE FORBIDDEN HEAT SIGNATURE"
Damn, here I was having fun with my 104J and Gaijin decides to ruin it after 2 weeks of me getting it
If the nerfs are historically accurate, then I'm fine with it. But the higher BR F-104s need to come down since their flight performance got massacred.
Perfect, now that 104 a and c are SLIGHTLY underperforming gajin can move them even lower in br
Flight model reaper also has the dog tags of all the f104 pilots
Im gonna wait and see what the funny vowel man can do.
another day another reason to never touch the ASA again
Great content.
naturally, as soon as im 40k rp from the f-104 it gets a big nerf. also the only thing going for the f-104 is its speed so they nerf its speed, so now at higher brs it has nothing going for it
So... They nerfed the f104 s taf?.... That was a pain to play even before
As a former helldivers 2 fan, I'm getting vietnam flashbacks right now.
this looks normal for when the 104 was added originally so looks like its back to normal and was overperforming as what your doing is fine
id say the MiG-29 nerf was just as big as the F-104 nerf
Wait when did they nerf the mig 29? What did they nerf?
Considering I m just about to get the Benelux F-104G, this is a bit annoying, but I am glad this finally puts the 104A and 104C players down a peg.
Now you are just like a stick being thrown in the air as you have fallen off
Yeah the S.ASA needs to be dropped to 11.3, tho this is W nerf for the Alpha Model Starfighters that are stationed at 9.3 definitely somewhat better to fight against, however, your right modernized Starfighters should be dropped like the S.ASA to 11.3 or 11.7, which is worse than MiG-23ML that sits at 11.7 either or works basically, it still has to face F-14's regardless that's another thing but if you move the F-104G's to 10.7 and F-104J's & S's that are AIM-9J (Jankie) haulers to 11.0 that would be solid change to balance out the nerf. The J's and S's were already suffering since the battle rating compression was introduced.
Hype for 20k!!!!
it was as simple as bumping the f104a/c to 10.0 and the f8u to 10.3
but gaijin did a gaijin...
10.0 would maybe be a bit much since the j7 is at 11.0 and that would be a pretty unfair match up. just generla decompression and a slight br increase for it would have solved the issues
@@AlRizz187well the j7e should have gone to 11.7 too, I forgot
@@kingghidorah8106 Still, even with the J7E gone, 10.0 would be too much. No flareless plane with 2 AIM9Bs should be that high. 9.7 would be more reasonable, as imo it's not better than the T2 or MiG-21S.
The F8U can go straight to 10.7 though, It deserves it. And while we're at it, we can put the F4C back down to 10.0, it's suffered enough.
Kinda sad about this nerf, but at the same time not really because the 104 A and C were (and probably still are) totally busted at 9.3. I always played the C over the A because of the extra utility it has. Now having 4 9B's is all the more reason to play it instead.
If Gaijin were to move the 104A & C up, I'd like to see countermeasures. 10.0 is where you start to see those all aspect heatseekers that you just can't pull out of. An uptier in a 104 is already a death sentence.
Gaijin shouldn't ruin the entire model of plane just because one country's variant were overperforming. Just uptier them lol.
I really didn't have a good time spading the F-104J (my first F-104.) No flares at that BR is incredibly cursed. This change might make it unplayable for me.
Looks like the chinese f 104g is now worse, if not the worst. You meet all aspect 30g missiles IN A DOWNTIER and irccms in an uptier, and its not even a full uptier. I feel sorry for anyone who has to play flareless planes at 10.0+
Not nerfed, just underestimated.
I finish grinding the F104J 2 days before
My gun skill is bad
but this plane
is the ultimate stupid AIR-TRAIN
I hate it 80% of the time
gaijin trying not to make the F-104's turn rate being as big as the fucking sun (impossible)
Wait. Oswald ratio means induced drag, but more speed bleed in turns suggests an increase in parasitic drag. Can someone explain it?
Thank god the f 104 a and c got nerfed, but now all the other f 104s that were mid at their brs (unlike the a and c) have to suffer more
Man the F104a is one of my favorite planes to fly when I just want to chill and have fun.
in reality it was a awful plane, not because its was simply bad but because how unforgiving it was, it had barely any turn performance and also at low speeds it basically became a falling stick, it would also compress pretty hard on a dive and seemed to be very sensitive to flight input resulting in a lot of pilot error.
this shows how awful gaijin's flight models are and sometimes have 0 resemblance to the real life vehicle.
thank god because the CL-13 and mig 17 are some of my favorites to chill and have fun with and now f104s won’t terrorize my plane as much
@@goldfishPACIFIER wrong. The only thing about it that really hurt was low speed and that was simply because it was more susceptible to tip stalls. People who knew how to fly it, loved it. You are spouting the common illinformed "hur dur widow maker" bs.
@@goldfishPACIFIER idk about reality
@@casematecardinal never talked about the widow maker shit, I said that it was very unforgiving, and it was also very sensitive that induced a lot of pilot error
Atleast I had a little fun with the f104 when I had the chance
why does it feel as if this is gonna cause the F-104 to somehow become the worst 9.3 and get killed by everything soviet that has a hint of speed and turn
edit: ah, nevermind, anything above the 9.3 ones are gonna shit the bed instead
I’m an Italian Starfighter main… this is the end of my WT Starfighting.
7:00 Bro prayed to the Snail
I'm an Italy main and Gaijin just told me "stop playing our game".
I cant understand gaijin... They wont touch anything that is problematic (top tier in general), but they will touch and mess stuff up thats already mediocre/awful. So now having to use the f104 for example italy is now even more of a chore and a sureway of losing your sanity...
Hey lee can we see some content regarding your predictions with the major update?
F104 is the ONLY plane in which I literally can't get kills at all no matter what
Arnt the some of the starfighters still missing some thrust too?
No I'm sad and happy at the same time