@@derritter3873 have you used them recently there fucking hit sim i mean when i cut a line through a migs wing with my 20mm and it does jack shit i tend to say its trash
@@theblacksplit aim9m require more effort, positioning and flares to be flared off. But gatewidth irccm like the magic 2 or r73 are unflarable in close range except frontal aspect
God I want the ASA to move down, everything that was good about the starfighter is just completely thrown out the window when you compete with straight up better jets
Problem with F104 wasn't its good performance but the planes it was fighting against. Ruining the performance only means that the people flying this plane have even less incentive to actually turn and fight. Now all they are going to do is fly straight and not get into a single dog fight.
@@Pvt_Wade I'm sorry, I play the game to have fun and to me, having fun is dogfighting. I don't find someone riding my ass and me trying to run away from them fun. F104 is not a dog fighter, but I still try to do what I can to stay in the fight instead of zooming away at Mach fuck-off at the slightest bit of trouble. It was already a complaint from the player base that F104s are annoying to fight because all they do is constantly fuck off. What do you think will happen now?
0:25, a hunter F.1 lmao. Love how it still is at the same BR, facing supersonic jets with missiles, whilst it is subsonic, no flares, no missiles, and on paper has the same turn time as the F-104A, nice
@@h.a8681 NASA Reference Publication 1042 "Performance Evaluation Method for Dissimilar Aircraft Designs" pg. 46, Figure 28. the new Oswald efficiency factor is now closer to the F-104 turning with landing flaps and gear down irl
@@h.a8681it's the only plane in the game that can only pull it's historically accurate G's, every other plane gets a 2-3g buff to its flight model. It also bleeds way too much speed than historical when turning now
@@sageg58 That’s not true I read the bug reports and they have accounted for that. In real life it would fly even worse. It is now “historical” as in it flies how it should even with the additional buffs given to planes in war thunder
Why wouldn't it be? There is far less surface area to catch drag. It really doesn't make sense considering the design goal was to make the f104 be as quick as possible eith as little drag as possible but gaijin like with the tow2b said "no, die"
@casematecardinal i get what you're saying, and I'm by no means knowledgeable when it comes to physics and aerodynamics, but doesn't that low drag also come with a literally non existent amount of lift? I mean it literally has no wings, but then again I don't know how oswald efficiency is calculated so i could absolutely be wrong. Regardless though this is more a comment on the Su 27's dogshit flight model more than anything, I find it hilarious that the Su 27 and F 15 are supposed to be very close in terms of flight performance irl yet the Su 27 has an Oswald efficiency factor of 0.45 and the F 15 has a Oswald efficiency factor of 0.81
@@RylanTempleton-w5l it wouldn't even be bad if the su-27 was accurate, it really can only beat the F-16 and F-15 in a dogfight reliably if 1. it's a slow speed fight 2. The su-27 gets them into an AOA fight. The Eagle and Viper are mainly built to turn at a certain speed threshold and dominate it. which is why American never bothered with Cobra maneuvers
@@seskorirkeashimrui3556 I mean let's be real irl the Su-27 is THE air superiority fighter. Flanker series are the best 4th Generation fighters based on combat performance
People bitch about the 9.3 F-104s but they really aren't that strong, I can't even remember the last time I got killed by a 104 at 9.3. You have to either be going 2 mph and stalled or throw your brain out of your head to get killed by one. I'd argue the Mig 19 at 9.3 is better than the 9.3 104s and no one bitches about the Mig 19 lol
I can say that while I do welcome this nerf, it has completely ruined the higher BR 104s. I played the German 104G yesterday so I could get the 2000lb bomb, and it was pure pain trying to do any sort of maneuvering and getting the gun on target. I’m still feel that they could have instead of nerfing the entire 104 line into the ground like this, they could have merged the flight model less and moved the American 104s up to 9.7. But for some reason, there is some conspiracy in Gaijin HQ to keep the A/C at 9.3.
i'm kind of surprised people still think this, but gaijin doesn't try to balance the game by giving vehicles arbitrary fm changes. they only make changes to the fm of a plane when they believe that the current fm isn't inline with how its irl counterpart performed.
@@flynntaggart8549 there is nothing realistic about nerfing a plane by having its wings generate more drag arbitrarily especially when it was designed not to do that. Even if the fm was overperforming it's irl which it wasn't at least to the sort of degree the mig23 was, nerfing it's ability to even stay in the air is idiotic.
on a side note; why even bother getting bombs for the 104G other than to spade it? f104 is a terrible pick for ground RB when the phantoms are right after with much better ground ordinance
To be fair the F104 would absolutely bleed a ton of speed and it's lift during turns. It was historically a tricky plane to fly. This update really kind of brings it in line with reality speaking strictly of the flight model
It actually wasn't. It had tough low speed handling characteristics but st combat speed It was well regarded especially by those who flew it often and actually understood hoe to fly it. The people who knew were American national guard flying them over Europe. Apparently one was able to beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight. This update just made it worse in was that don't make sense to bring it to a standard that is far bellow how anything else in game is balanced. It's bad gaijin coding.
@casematecardinal THANK YOU for understanding that WE STARFIGHTERS actually good. Seriously God damn... The only reason the F-104s are considered "horrible to fly" is because the Germans didn't know how to fly us properly. The crashes and deaths stopped when the US taught the Germans to fly us starfighters better... Jesus christ
@@1nv15BL3 I actually liked f104s taf a lot before the nerf. It reliably destroyed bases (especially after napalm buff) and still had enough missiles to do 2-3 easy kills almost every match. It was good SL and RP grinder for me.
Played the ASA today, i reached mach 1.2 pretty easily on the deck with only aim 9Ls. If you want to bomb there aren't many problems The improved engine does its work and helps you keep speed
Flight model nerfs to hit the overperforming 9.3 versions, which inevitably make the 10.7+ versions even more insufferable to play (looking at you midtaly). Clearly, why would anyone want to hotfix the wonderful, great, fun BR adjustments! It's way too early for that!
Same awful thing they did to MiG-29, MiG-23 and Su-27. I hate how Gaijin's way of balancing things is "make it not fun to play". I used to love the F-104G but then they constantly uptiered it and now ruined the flight model. I want them to add the MiG-25 but it seems they're skipping over it for some reason.
Gentlemen....we are now entirely, in all sense, genuinely, utterly, and ultimately speed sticks. We can no longer afford to turn. Start up the Motley Crue national speeding anthem. We are now straight line dragsters.
There we go again! The Snail simply can't stay away from it, even if they know it is suicidal. It's like a power trip, like an addiction that you know is going to destroy you, but that you cannot simply leave alone. It's so sad...
The Mirage IIIc also has an effective radar missile you can run into at 9.3 sometimes with the R530. Dunno if the radar is J-band or not. You don’t run into them often enough for the RWR to be worthwhile either way though.
I band, but the radar missiles at this BR are very easy to fool, just 1 puff of chaff and you're good. RWR is mostly useful because a lot of noobs don't turn off their radar rangefinder and gives you a steady beeeeeeeeeeep when they're behind you thinking they're sneaky
I think its time to bring up the lightning needing a buff considering it would go supersonic after taking off (in a vertical climb) yet my jaguar has a higher acceleration to mach 1 in a climb
No, it isn't. It already didn't dogfight, it could just turn around in a somewhat timely matter without becoming useless. Also anecdotal evidence suggests an f104 pilot beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight over eastern Europe though it wasn't necessary a guns on type fight.
@casematecardinal I mean historically not in game. Historically those things were basically manned missiles, boom and zoom on enemy bombers type shit. Or in the Canadian sector, one way nuclear bomb delivery vehicles
The thing has zero wing - the fact that both it's sustained and instantaneous turn rates seems right to me. It sucks to have your favourite planes nerfed but it sounds historically accurate to me.
Before the addition of 13.7, the 1st F104 in the italian tree was 10,7, at that time it felt like the by far most ballanced and fair br to play in for the 104. It drove me to the conclusion that all the 104’s should stay between 10.3 and 10.7 at that time. Well fuck that said the Snail :S
Thats awesome, ive been grinding for the 104C(my favorite jet fighter ever) aince they were added and now that i finally have the 104a half researched they go slam it with a nerf
Pretty much how it felt, I unlocked my first F-104 while grinding for the F-14 event and when I unlocked it all I got matched into were 10.3 matches where everyone hyper focuses you for daring to fly a F-104
@@theBrid-gv8jethis is the comment I was looking for, yea the f104a may be 9.3 but in my experience I never fly in my tier and am bound to eat missiles for dearing to stick in a fight, gotta love not being able to run away now either.
W-wait a minute. I'm a F-104C... wait.... DOES THAT MEAN I'M YOUR FAVORITE PLANE? Character shenanigans aside, nice. My favorite F-104 to play was the 104C but it's been a really long time sense I last played it
10.0 would maybe be a bit much since the j7 is at 11.0 and that would be a pretty unfair match up. just generla decompression and a slight br increase for it would have solved the issues
@@kingghidorah8106 Still, even with the J7E gone, 10.0 would be too much. No flareless plane with 2 AIM9Bs should be that high. 9.7 would be more reasonable, as imo it's not better than the T2 or MiG-21S. The F8U can go straight to 10.7 though, It deserves it. And while we're at it, we can put the F4C back down to 10.0, it's suffered enough.
F104’s got shafted tbh. There’s planes at or slightly above its br that can easily kill it, but players choose to take these planes out and will ground pound or go for easy targets instead of the highest threat. Target prio is a glaring flaw in the statistics based br system. And Gaijin likes nerfing and much as they like raising BRs for no good reason, so they just flip flop every patch on how they want to compound the problem until the next update. So boring and tiresome.
I really want to enjoy the F-104S and S.ASA, so much so that i just hunkered down and tried every single playstyle until i found one that worked for me. This absolute demolition of an update makes a difficult but rewarding plane to use into an absolutely horrendous experience that i wouldn't wish upon my biggest enemy. I really hope Gaijin sees some sense and does a rebalance of the planes.
Lee: Higher BR 104s suffer now Also Lee: Pulls never before seen Cobra in F-104 at 7:00 Well now let's be happy wing rip was changed since this plane can pull harder than an R-73 despite what you want me to believe.
Honestly not the worst thing ever because the only time I see people playing the f104 is at 9.3. Playing it at higher brs is really just not gonna go well even before the nerf. They could definitely reduce the br of the higher tier f104s now but the more capable missiles makes running away simply not a viable option.
why does it feel as if this is gonna cause the F-104 to somehow become the worst 9.3 and get killed by everything soviet that has a hint of speed and turn edit: ah, nevermind, anything above the 9.3 ones are gonna shit the bed instead
Looks like the chinese f 104g is now worse, if not the worst. You meet all aspect 30g missiles IN A DOWNTIER and irccms in an uptier, and its not even a full uptier. I feel sorry for anyone who has to play flareless planes at 10.0+
If the nerfs are historically accurate, then I'm fine with it. But the higher BR F-104s need to come down since their flight performance got massacred.
Hated my F104J when I first played it, after getting accustomed to it and how to play at 10.3 I started to love it. Now I feel like im flying a super sonic oil tanker, except I think the oil tanker could pull better AoA and maintain energy better.
I played the ASA extensively. It used to be a good plane, really good in fact. Since i made a custom preset which let me use the gun together with the aspides I use those a whole lot. Gaijin has absolutely massacred this jet. The aspides are super unreliable and aim 9ls aren't the greatest either. It's speed wasn't such a huge advantage to begine with in the current meta, but with that gone there is literally 0 reason to play it.
I really didn't have a good time spading the F-104J (my first F-104.) No flares at that BR is incredibly cursed. This change might make it unplayable for me.
i dont mind ASA at 12.0 but give it a workable RWR ! Lot of jets dont have a "visual" RWR yet they have one on the UI ! Only ASA is punished like that !
Kinda sad about this nerf, but at the same time not really because the 104 A and C were (and probably still are) totally busted at 9.3. I always played the C over the A because of the extra utility it has. Now having 4 9B's is all the more reason to play it instead. If Gaijin were to move the 104A & C up, I'd like to see countermeasures. 10.0 is where you start to see those all aspect heatseekers that you just can't pull out of. An uptier in a 104 is already a death sentence.
I will say, the F104 has completely ruined realistic battles for me as someone grinding the warsaw pact jets (German tree). I haven't yet gotten to the missiles and it seems like every single game I go up against one. And while I admit, I'm not the best pilot, it seems like when you don't have any missiles to help even the playing field, any non-moron F104 pilot will just be unkillable. It just makes the game so frustrating knowing that unless a miracle happens, I'm just cannon fodder for any F104 that sees me
Completely wrong. This nerf doesn't even make sense. Now assuming that it overperformed in one speed regime, they decided to make the drag it's wings sustain completely ahistorically high you know because it's wings were designed not to create induced drag.
I think all f104s should be 10.7 with flares and anything better than a aim9j. Like the f104s is a struggle bus yes you get flares but its rough facing f14 spam and facing fox 3s. Gaijin i think knew what they were doing and broke high tier air rb, i think over all jets should face other jets with the same capabilities. Fox 2s/PD vs fox 2/pd, fox 3s vs fox 3s the all aspects dont really matter much because you flare and pull but at least it would make things better and give the pd jets with no fox 2s a filler one like the kurnass 2k. Irl armament went out the window a long time ago no jet has all of its kit available because gaijin gate keeps it by br or model so why pretend that the f4s cant use 9ls for reason even though some used 9ms and the 9x but the kurnass the netz the f16s with nothing but 9ls cant get fox 2s. If im at a br where a 10 or15km radar lock is possible and a missle is facing me now i gotta burn energy while the guy im facing just looks and waits. Especially considering the fact that they face fox 3s without any sarh missiles.
Mark my words, the 8.7 F-104 is in coming unless the already awful player base of it stops using it, shit gets energy trapped by 2 aim-9Bs fired to it's six, shits hilarious
I cant understand gaijin... They wont touch anything that is problematic (top tier in general), but they will touch and mess stuff up thats already mediocre/awful. So now having to use the f104 for example italy is now even more of a chore and a sureway of losing your sanity...
Just to be clear, when I say the ROC 104G if it gets flares should stay at 10.7, I mean the other 104Gs should go there too :)
Im not gonna lie its a major skill issue at 8.3 i mean seriously there easy to kill they will head on and they will die
@@MTF-EPSILON-11-5-NULLHeading on a vulcan? Thats the last thing you wanna do against an f 104.
@@martinwellhoefer9159 oh please we all know American 20mm hurts on a blue moon
@@MTF-EPSILON-11-5-NULLwho is “we”? I don’t think anyone besides you thinks the 20mm Vulcan is weak.
@@derritter3873 have you used them recently there fucking hit sim i mean when i cut a line through a migs wing with my 20mm and it does jack shit i tend to say its trash
Pp plane got circumcised
Lol
Wat did i just read
I hate reading that
... I hate that this works lol
Jesus
7:00 thought F-104 got AoA nerf bro just hits a cobra
I’m happy someone else noticed that moment
😂
Gaijin: Hmmmm F-104A&C broken? Let's kill every other model!
The F-4C still drowning in IRCCM missiles in the background.
@@nercksrule F-4C is one of those planes that don't care about IRCCM missiles, mainly because it can't flare any to begin with
@@HighRiskVr73 and magic 2 could be flared. 9m no way
@@theblacksplitAll of them can be flared, it's just that the 9M takes much more flares to be fooled.
@@theblacksplit aim9m require more effort, positioning and flares to be flared off. But gatewidth irccm like the magic 2 or r73 are unflarable in close range except frontal aspect
And yet we still haven’t gotten the IRST on the F-104s, Sad!
God I want the ASA to move down, everything that was good about the starfighter is just completely thrown out the window when you compete with straight up better jets
the adv is the better 12.0 itlian jet and that's a sad thing seeing that if anyone chooses to focus you your dead. (you cant notch quick enough)
Waiting for my F-104S-ASA to go down to 11.3, or get AIM-9Ms
lore accurate f104 asa have aim9m and a better radar
@@uh8705 And ECM if Gaijin ever bothers to implement that into the game.
@@C0mmunistBalls Do you really want it to be 12.3-12.7 with those aim-9m to always face fox 3?
@@-..----.--.-... the US now got AIM-9Ms at 11.3 with the new A-10C
@@romanszwarc3288 Yes, and it's undertiered. And it's a-10...
Problem with F104 wasn't its good performance but the planes it was fighting against. Ruining the performance only means that the people flying this plane have even less incentive to actually turn and fight. Now all they are going to do is fly straight and not get into a single dog fight.
but that is what it was designed for
So fly it correctly?
F104 cant dogfight lol
you bring shame upon colonel 100's image by that "F-104 should dogfight" statement
@@Pvt_Wade I'm sorry, I play the game to have fun and to me, having fun is dogfighting. I don't find someone riding my ass and me trying to run away from them fun.
F104 is not a dog fighter, but I still try to do what I can to stay in the fight instead of zooming away at Mach fuck-off at the slightest bit of trouble.
It was already a complaint from the player base that F104s are annoying to fight because all they do is constantly fuck off. What do you think will happen now?
0:25, a hunter F.1 lmao. Love how it still is at the same BR, facing supersonic jets with missiles, whilst it is subsonic, no flares, no missiles, and on paper has the same turn time as the F-104A, nice
you must have some shitty wifi because thats a f58, a very good plane for its br
@@goldfishPACIFIER it is i love it but still hate playing against good f104 players in it
That’s a F.58, it has flares, Mavericks, renamed export 9Js.
@@warthunderclipper mb, 0:24
@@warthunderclipper and anyway that proves my point, those two can face each other....
Man I love how the snail just kills planes instead of decompressing the brs
deserved
This is historically how the plane flew, its FM before was a joke
@@h.a8681 NASA Reference Publication 1042 "Performance Evaluation Method for Dissimilar Aircraft Designs" pg. 46, Figure 28. the new Oswald efficiency factor is now closer to the F-104 turning with landing flaps and gear down irl
@@h.a8681it's the only plane in the game that can only pull it's historically accurate G's, every other plane gets a 2-3g buff to its flight model. It also bleeds way too much speed than historical when turning now
@@sageg58 That’s not true
I read the bug reports and they have accounted for that. In real life it would fly even worse.
It is now “historical” as in it flies how it should even with the additional buffs given to planes in war thunder
Oswald efficiency still higher than the Su 27 aswell lmao
Yeah, that is crazy
Why wouldn't it be? There is far less surface area to catch drag. It really doesn't make sense considering the design goal was to make the f104 be as quick as possible eith as little drag as possible but gaijin like with the tow2b said "no, die"
The su27 powers through turns with engine thrust, the f104 does it with both engine power and low drag
@casematecardinal i get what you're saying, and I'm by no means knowledgeable when it comes to physics and aerodynamics, but doesn't that low drag also come with a literally non existent amount of lift? I mean it literally has no wings, but then again I don't know how oswald efficiency is calculated so i could absolutely be wrong. Regardless though this is more a comment on the Su 27's dogshit flight model more than anything, I find it hilarious that the Su 27 and F 15 are supposed to be very close in terms of flight performance irl yet the Su 27 has an Oswald efficiency factor of 0.45 and the F 15 has a Oswald efficiency factor of 0.81
@@casematecardinal Su-27's real oswald's number is estimated to be 0.71
So, before this nerf, the su-27 oswald's number was almost 2 times less, than of the frickin f-104? This is insane
The f104 has tiny very aerodynamic wings and no body lift. It's kind of the point.
@@casematecardinal Su-27's real oswald's number is estimated to be 0.71
Too many American mains would complain if the su-27 wasn’t anything other than a flying air brake
@@RylanTempleton-w5l it wouldn't even be bad if the su-27 was accurate, it really can only beat the F-16 and F-15 in a dogfight reliably if
1. it's a slow speed fight
2. The su-27 gets them into an AOA fight.
The Eagle and Viper are mainly built to turn at a certain speed threshold and dominate it. which is why American never bothered with Cobra maneuvers
@@seskorirkeashimrui3556 I mean let's be real irl the Su-27 is THE air superiority fighter. Flanker series are the best 4th Generation fighters based on combat performance
Good to hear. The higher tier F-104s need a bit of BR tweaking now, but the 9.3s definitely needed a massive nerf.
for real
I mean they will definitely go down in br the way gaijin does it. Most people suck at flying them anyways including me lmao
There should be the planned br changes sometime in september-october iirc
Yeah, the f-104 was soooo manueverable
People bitch about the 9.3 F-104s but they really aren't that strong, I can't even remember the last time I got killed by a 104 at 9.3. You have to either be going 2 mph and stalled or throw your brain out of your head to get killed by one. I'd argue the Mig 19 at 9.3 is better than the 9.3 104s and no one bitches about the Mig 19 lol
I can say that while I do welcome this nerf, it has completely ruined the higher BR 104s. I played the German 104G yesterday so I could get the 2000lb bomb, and it was pure pain trying to do any sort of maneuvering and getting the gun on target.
I’m still feel that they could have instead of nerfing the entire 104 line into the ground like this, they could have merged the flight model less and moved the American 104s up to 9.7. But for some reason, there is some conspiracy in Gaijin HQ to keep the A/C at 9.3.
It’s a nerf for the sake of nerfing it, it’s more of a fix of an overperforming plane compared to its IRL performance
i'm kind of surprised people still think this, but gaijin doesn't try to balance the game by giving vehicles arbitrary fm changes. they only make changes to the fm of a plane when they believe that the current fm isn't inline with how its irl counterpart performed.
@@flynntaggart8549 there is nothing realistic about nerfing a plane by having its wings generate more drag arbitrarily especially when it was designed not to do that. Even if the fm was overperforming it's irl which it wasn't at least to the sort of degree the mig23 was, nerfing it's ability to even stay in the air is idiotic.
@@flynntaggart8549lmao... Keep being naive..
on a side note; why even bother getting bombs for the 104G other than to spade it? f104 is a terrible pick for ground RB when the phantoms are right after with much better ground ordinance
To be fair the F104 would absolutely bleed a ton of speed and it's lift during turns. It was historically a tricky plane to fly. This update really kind of brings it in line with reality speaking strictly of the flight model
It actually wasn't. It had tough low speed handling characteristics but st combat speed It was well regarded especially by those who flew it often and actually understood hoe to fly it. The people who knew were American national guard flying them over Europe. Apparently one was able to beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight. This update just made it worse in was that don't make sense to bring it to a standard that is far bellow how anything else in game is balanced. It's bad gaijin coding.
@casematecardinal THANK YOU for understanding that WE STARFIGHTERS actually good. Seriously God damn...
The only reason the F-104s are considered "horrible to fly" is because the Germans didn't know how to fly us properly. The crashes and deaths stopped when the US taught the Germans to fly us starfighters better... Jesus christ
@@casematecardinal Claims like this really need a source
@@casematecardinalAgainst Mig-23?? Total bullshit
I’ve been begging gaijin for a year now to change the 104s Asa. This was not what I had in mind. Top tier 104 players stayin in suicide watch.
Now they crushed all the high tier Italy F104 😭, also the people that bought the F104S TAF are now screwed
Italy mains actually have a brain and they know damn well the F-104 is simply a waste of RP and SL, so really nothing changed for them.
@@1nv15BL3 I actually liked f104s taf a lot before the nerf. It reliably destroyed bases (especially after napalm buff) and still had enough missiles to do 2-3 easy kills almost every match. It was good SL and RP grinder for me.
An f104 should not be base attacking anyway,thats strike fighter job @@СалаватАбашев-е6щ
Played the ASA today, i reached mach 1.2 pretty easily on the deck with only aim 9Ls.
If you want to bomb there aren't many problems
The improved engine does its work and helps you keep speed
Flight model nerfs to hit the overperforming 9.3 versions, which inevitably make the 10.7+ versions even more insufferable to play (looking at you midtaly).
Clearly, why would anyone want to hotfix the wonderful, great, fun BR adjustments! It's way too early for that!
Its wings are literally that small to reduce drag so they don’t rip themselves off, this change makes no sense most people can’t even fly that thing😂
It bleeds way too much speed than it realistically should. They should have just raised the BR
I hate to say it, but, it has been long awaited especially for the 104A and C. Maybe the 9.3 bracket can get *some* breathing room
bracket still sees plenty of other supersonics, all-aspects and magics. nerfing the 104's MER is a bandaid on a broken arm.
Mig-19 still exists so not really
@@Nothing-yq2gzwow 120 round 2 r3 plane so brokeeeen
@@ryssa2409yeah its very good
@@ryssa2409 yeah and the best flight performance until you get to 10.7
I love how gaijin's response to anything now is to just add impossible amounts of drag to a flight model. RIP f104s and varks
Same awful thing they did to MiG-29, MiG-23 and Su-27. I hate how Gaijin's way of balancing things is "make it not fun to play". I used to love the F-104G but then they constantly uptiered it and now ruined the flight model. I want them to add the MiG-25 but it seems they're skipping over it for some reason.
Gentlemen....we are now entirely, in all sense, genuinely, utterly, and ultimately speed sticks. We can no longer afford to turn. Start up the Motley Crue national speeding anthem. We are now straight line dragsters.
TY for continuing to put out content that is well thought out and generally not overly-dramatic.
@@axm2689 I do my best
0:09 6 Nations* USA, Germany, Japan, China, Italy, and France :)
Oh yeah! France! Completely forgot lol
I miss the golden era of the F104, when you could carry SAHR with gun
F-104A to 8.0 BR next round of changes. The "statistics" must bring balance
Gaijin need to adopt the afterburner tied to that skin around the middle of the video, looks a million times better than the default one.
Tried to play the F104A this morning, got ran down by a lightning and ate a red top, had no chance of dodging it
good. the f104a and c have been evil gods long enough
GOOD
@@miquelescribanoivars5049 shut the H E L L up. The f104 is far away from the reason 9.3 is broken.
Me, a British jet sufferer:
Hmm, interesting. Anyway back to my Hunter line 💀
There we go again! The Snail simply can't stay away from it, even if they know it is suicidal. It's like a power trip, like an addiction that you know is going to destroy you, but that you cannot simply leave alone. It's so sad...
Oh no, Gaijin nerfing aircraft? What a rare and outrageous occurrence.
The Mirage IIIc also has an effective radar missile you can run into at 9.3 sometimes with the R530. Dunno if the radar is J-band or not. You don’t run into them often enough for the RWR to be worthwhile either way though.
I band, but the radar missiles at this BR are very easy to fool, just 1 puff of chaff and you're good. RWR is mostly useful because a lot of noobs don't turn off their radar rangefinder and gives you a steady beeeeeeeeeeep when they're behind you thinking they're sneaky
@@pepebeezon772 Good point, I turn off radar by default usually since I'm used to trying to sneak around a sim map without being found...
5:00 "FATHER, I CRAVE THE FORBIDDEN HEAT SIGNATURE"
I think its time to bring up the lightning needing a buff considering it would go supersonic after taking off (in a vertical climb) yet my jaguar has a higher acceleration to mach 1 in a climb
To be fair, this is how the plane SHOULD fly. Its a super sonic dart interceptor. It does NOT dogfight.
Well it also doesn't get a lot of induced drag
No, it isn't. It already didn't dogfight, it could just turn around in a somewhat timely matter without becoming useless. Also anecdotal evidence suggests an f104 pilot beat either a mig21 or 23 in a dogfight over eastern Europe though it wasn't necessary a guns on type fight.
@casematecardinal I mean historically not in game. Historically those things were basically manned missiles, boom and zoom on enemy bombers type shit. Or in the Canadian sector, one way nuclear bomb delivery vehicles
the Chinese F104G NEEDS to go down, and has needed to go down since the BR changes
The thing has zero wing - the fact that both it's sustained and instantaneous turn rates seems right to me. It sucks to have your favourite planes nerfed but it sounds historically accurate to me.
Dude every plane I try to spade gets nerfed, first the F16ADF then the F4J, NOW THE F104A/C
gaijin trying not to make the F-104's turn rate being as big as the fucking sun (impossible)
I just unlocked the Italian 104S; guess I shouldn't waste SL to crew it!
Yey the f104asa will get nerfed too nice, at this point gaijin just put it in 14.0 as his own br because how shit you are at balancing
Damn that skinned 104, Gaijin really needs to hire those Afterburner Skin guys
Man I just started grinding china air, was stoked to finally try a 9.3 star fighter. Been playing since the f86 was top tier and never touched it
good thing too hear when I'm researching my first F104
In the next episode: F-104 efficiency stats decrease overall, gaijin moves them to 9.0
Andddd they nerfed my favorite plane never been more glad to have stopped playing recently
good change. this plane can burn in hell. ruined an entire br bracket for years.
That's gaijins mistake. Not the fault of a plane that they just made useless across 4 br's
This plane is far from the reason 9.3 is broken
Before the addition of 13.7, the 1st F104 in the italian tree was 10,7, at that time it felt like the by far most ballanced and fair br to play in for the 104. It drove me to the conclusion that all the 104’s should stay between 10.3 and 10.7 at that time.
Well fuck that said the Snail :S
Wait wait wait... An Oswald efficiency number of 0.47?! Holy induced drag batman.
Thats awesome, ive been grinding for the 104C(my favorite jet fighter ever) aince they were added and now that i finally have the 104a half researched they go slam it with a nerf
Pretty much how it felt, I unlocked my first F-104 while grinding for the F-14 event and when I unlocked it all I got matched into were 10.3 matches where everyone hyper focuses you for daring to fly a F-104
@@theBrid-gv8jethis is the comment I was looking for, yea the f104a may be 9.3 but in my experience I never fly in my tier and am bound to eat missiles for dearing to stick in a fight, gotta love not being able to run away now either.
W-wait a minute. I'm a F-104C... wait.... DOES THAT MEAN I'M YOUR FAVORITE PLANE?
Character shenanigans aside, nice. My favorite F-104 to play was the 104C but it's been a really long time sense I last played it
it was as simple as bumping the f104a/c to 10.0 and the f8u to 10.3
but gaijin did a gaijin...
10.0 would maybe be a bit much since the j7 is at 11.0 and that would be a pretty unfair match up. just generla decompression and a slight br increase for it would have solved the issues
@@AlRizz187well the j7e should have gone to 11.7 too, I forgot
@@kingghidorah8106 Still, even with the J7E gone, 10.0 would be too much. No flareless plane with 2 AIM9Bs should be that high. 9.7 would be more reasonable, as imo it's not better than the T2 or MiG-21S.
The F8U can go straight to 10.7 though, It deserves it. And while we're at it, we can put the F4C back down to 10.0, it's suffered enough.
My poor f104S TAF
F104’s got shafted tbh.
There’s planes at or slightly above its br that can easily kill it, but players choose to take these planes out and will ground pound or go for easy targets instead of the highest threat.
Target prio is a glaring flaw in the statistics based br system. And Gaijin likes nerfing and much as they like raising BRs for no good reason, so they just flip flop every patch on how they want to compound the problem until the next update.
So boring and tiresome.
I really want to enjoy the F-104S and S.ASA, so much so that i just hunkered down and tried every single playstyle until i found one that worked for me. This absolute demolition of an update makes a difficult but rewarding plane to use into an absolutely horrendous experience that i wouldn't wish upon my biggest enemy.
I really hope Gaijin sees some sense and does a rebalance of the planes.
Lee: Higher BR 104s suffer now
Also Lee: Pulls never before seen Cobra in F-104 at 7:00
Well now let's be happy wing rip was changed since this plane can pull harder than an R-73 despite what you want me to believe.
I knew when i was spading the f-104C, something felt way off
Flight model reaper also has the dog tags of all the f104 pilots
7:00 Bro prayed to the Snail
Honestly not the worst thing ever because the only time I see people playing the f104 is at 9.3. Playing it at higher brs is really just not gonna go well even before the nerf. They could definitely reduce the br of the higher tier f104s now but the more capable missiles makes running away simply not a viable option.
another day another reason to never touch the ASA again
why does it feel as if this is gonna cause the F-104 to somehow become the worst 9.3 and get killed by everything soviet that has a hint of speed and turn
edit: ah, nevermind, anything above the 9.3 ones are gonna shit the bed instead
Not nerfed, just underestimated.
Looks like the chinese f 104g is now worse, if not the worst. You meet all aspect 30g missiles IN A DOWNTIER and irccms in an uptier, and its not even a full uptier. I feel sorry for anyone who has to play flareless planes at 10.0+
If the nerfs are historically accurate, then I'm fine with it. But the higher BR F-104s need to come down since their flight performance got massacred.
The F104S TAF was already comically bad at 11.3 with constant uptiers, now it's just ridiculous.
I'm gonna kms. Literally just got the ASaa
Plz don't, I gib u better premium
You have amx and mig-21mf to grind to rank 8
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOO
no more overpowered as hell F104 and it fianlly gets a realistic flight model
Hated my F104J when I first played it, after getting accustomed to it and how to play at 10.3 I started to love it. Now I feel like im flying a super sonic oil tanker, except I think the oil tanker could pull better AoA and maintain energy better.
Lol as a german main i feel that
As a former helldivers 2 fan, I'm getting vietnam flashbacks right now.
id say the MiG-29 nerf was just as big as the F-104 nerf
Wait when did they nerf the mig 29? What did they nerf?
I played the ASA extensively. It used to be a good plane, really good in fact. Since i made a custom preset which let me use the gun together with the aspides I use those a whole lot. Gaijin has absolutely massacred this jet. The aspides are super unreliable and aim 9ls aren't the greatest either. It's speed wasn't such a huge advantage to begine with in the current meta, but with that gone there is literally 0 reason to play it.
I really didn't have a good time spading the F-104J (my first F-104.) No flares at that BR is incredibly cursed. This change might make it unplayable for me.
I’m an Italian Starfighter main… this is the end of my WT Starfighting.
All I’m hearing is, we’re gonna see a lot more lightnings
I wondered why I saw you in an F-104 the other day
Haha yup, was getting footage for this. Good to see ya man!
I thought that the f 104 was kind if well known for its insane acceleration and high speed handleing in real life?
i dont mind ASA at 12.0 but give it a workable RWR ! Lot of jets dont have a "visual" RWR yet they have one on the UI ! Only ASA is punished like that !
Don't worry, Gaijin won't change any of this because it won't make them any money
Im gonna wait and see what the funny vowel man can do.
Tbh, the F-104 is best played in Sim. Its faster than almost everything in its bracket. Its only downside is that the radar is beyond dogshit
Kinda sad about this nerf, but at the same time not really because the 104 A and C were (and probably still are) totally busted at 9.3. I always played the C over the A because of the extra utility it has. Now having 4 9B's is all the more reason to play it instead.
If Gaijin were to move the 104A & C up, I'd like to see countermeasures. 10.0 is where you start to see those all aspect heatseekers that you just can't pull out of. An uptier in a 104 is already a death sentence.
Gaijin shouldn't ruin the entire model of plane just because one country's variant were overperforming. Just uptier them lol.
I will say, the F104 has completely ruined realistic battles for me as someone grinding the warsaw pact jets (German tree). I haven't yet gotten to the missiles and it seems like every single game I go up against one. And while I admit, I'm not the best pilot, it seems like when you don't have any missiles to help even the playing field, any non-moron F104 pilot will just be unkillable. It just makes the game so frustrating knowing that unless a miracle happens, I'm just cannon fodder for any F104 that sees me
It was fix rather than nerfed.
agreed
To A & C sure but the rest got killed undeservingly.
Completely wrong. This nerf doesn't even make sense. Now assuming that it overperformed in one speed regime, they decided to make the drag it's wings sustain completely ahistorically high you know because it's wings were designed not to create induced drag.
Typical gaijin move
Move the F-104A & C up in br? No, ruin every other F-104 instead
Since I abandoned the US in warthunder I am literally cheering right now
I think all f104s should be 10.7 with flares and anything better than a aim9j. Like the f104s is a struggle bus yes you get flares but its rough facing f14 spam and facing fox 3s. Gaijin i think knew what they were doing and broke high tier air rb, i think over all jets should face other jets with the same capabilities. Fox 2s/PD vs fox 2/pd, fox 3s vs fox 3s the all aspects dont really matter much because you flare and pull but at least it would make things better and give the pd jets with no fox 2s a filler one like the kurnass 2k. Irl armament went out the window a long time ago no jet has all of its kit available because gaijin gate keeps it by br or model so why pretend that the f4s cant use 9ls for reason even though some used 9ms and the 9x but the kurnass the netz the f16s with nothing but 9ls cant get fox 2s. If im at a br where a 10 or15km radar lock is possible and a missle is facing me now i gotta burn energy while the guy im facing just looks and waits. Especially considering the fact that they face fox 3s without any sarh missiles.
No I'm sad and happy at the same time
the change to the flight model also means you can pull more aoa with less g forces
I finish grinding the F104J 2 days before
My gun skill is bad
but this plane
is the ultimate stupid AIR-TRAIN
I hate it 80% of the time
They had their run...
Perfect, now that 104 a and c are SLIGHTLY underperforming gajin can move them even lower in br
Damn, here I was having fun with my 104J and Gaijin decides to ruin it after 2 weeks of me getting it
Mark my words, the 8.7 F-104 is in coming unless the already awful player base of it stops using it, shit gets energy trapped by 2 aim-9Bs fired to it's six, shits hilarious
I cant understand gaijin... They wont touch anything that is problematic (top tier in general), but they will touch and mess stuff up thats already mediocre/awful. So now having to use the f104 for example italy is now even more of a chore and a sureway of losing your sanity...
So... They nerfed the f104 s taf?.... That was a pain to play even before
Good, these planes were a bane for to long.
I'm an Italy main and Gaijin just told me "stop playing our game".
this looks normal for when the 104 was added originally so looks like its back to normal and was overperforming as what your doing is fine
Hype for 20k!!!!