Now that I'm old, creaky and slow, I can no longer tolerate drop bars. I've opted for a hardtail, 2.2" fast cross-country tires and a swept back straight bar that my body is thankful for... Thanks, and be safe out there!
Similar here. Opted for Jones H-Bar SG 2.5 Loop for age and back-related reasons. I'm not chasing trends, competing with anyone, or trying to be king of Strava segments. I just pedal at a leisurely pace and enjoy life on two wheels. Aerodynamics don't matter at modest speeds, either. Ride smart, not hard. :)
I have an early Fargo that enticed me with the description of being a "monster cross and all adventure bike" with 6 bottle cage braze-ons. Mine is "fungi green". The only significant change I did over the years was change the wheels to allow for tubeless tires. I'm at 50,000 km and it's still my daily commuter as well as weekend camper.
I’m all for it. My dirt drop bike is a Ritchey Ascent. Love riding it. Build includes 29 x 2.35 Vittoria tires, Barzo in front, Mezcal in rear, dropper post, wide handlebar, and suspension stem. 1X mullet drive train with Rival in front and Eagle in the rear. The forest calls, and I must ride.
The Salsa Woodchipper drop bars on my and my wife's 2019 Fargo's give a nice neutral wrist position when ridden in the drops, which is where we ride 95% of the time. An Apex 1X12 drive train, a 32 tooth chainring with an 11-50 cassette and 29 x 2.35" Mezcals all around make them almost unstoppable. For the stopping department, a switch to Growtac Equal mechanical brakes gives them nearly the modulation of the SRAM Hydro R's that it came with, and more power, without the sticky piston issues in fine dusty conditions that used to require irritatingly frequent cleaning. We love them!
Hand built one here. Brilliant bike. I think its one of the best formats there is for general all purpose cycling. Like 90s mountain biking all over again.
Love my Cutthroat, I use it as a gravel bike. It’s got a Rival axs gx drivetrain, so basically mountain bike gearing. Running 50mm Gravelking SKs. Theses bikes are so capable and fun,on everything from road to pretty gnarly single track.
I love my Fargo. It’s great for single track climbing…..less so for descents. Usually after a few months of flat bar pounding it’s a great respite to reach for the Fargo and ride
Loved this video's documentary style, and the fact that it was on my favorite bike packing/gravel bike topic (tire size) was the icing on the cake. The trend is towards wider tires, and for good reason. If you're on rough gravel, they're just more comfortable and confidence inspiring.
Great video on dropbar mtn segment. I used to ride with "The Bubbas", Chuck Hoefer and Mike Varley back in the 1980's. My current love ride is a Black Mountain Cycles La Cabra drop bar mtn bike. It has a Secret Sauce ride quality that is smooth and stable, yet climbs and corners like a goat. I went back to drop bars for the neutral hand position with Salsa Cowchippers to alleviate hand, wrist, elbow pain. Extra surprise benefit for me was the smoother ride of the La Cabra over my very expensive and very stiff Ti mtn bike frame with Fox 34 usually ridden in locked position. A huge improvement for bikepacking with drops and a more flexible steel frame that is not overbuilt.
Love my Stargazer, Its fun to under bike on single-track day rides and its fantastic for bike packing with anything from 50mm tires on smother rides to 2.6" on trails. I own a fast carbon gravel bike and 2 different travel FS bikes but the Stargazer covers allot of the riding in between these.
i'm currently riding the European Divide Trail, 7800km over Gravel and Single Track through Europe, on a Cinelli Hobootleg Geo and it's been an absolute blast so far. Perfect combination of versatility, robustness and speed for me.
Started riding mtbs in the 90s in Mill Valley where Potts was located at the time and his drop bar bikes with tall droopy stems were cult popular. But they were well beyond my means at the time. Many years later my friend and Cutty super fan convinced me that I “needed” one. He was right. I bought a V2 cutty in late 2019 and couldn’t get enough of it. I rode the heck out of that bike until it was demolished in a collision with a moto in late 23Replaced it with a Corvid MAP with an XO transmission mullet and just when I thought things couldn’t get better they did. The MAP is just UNBELIEVABLE. Silent, supple and an absolute joy to ride. So…yeah…drop bar mtbs are great!!!
My 1987 Bridgestone MB-1 came stock with Nitto Dirt Drops and Suntour barend shifters. Used to see many drop bar MTBs living in Crested Butte, CO. Got to visit Cunningham in CA and he let me ride Jacquie Phelan's bike in Marin. Great bikes if you have a long ways to ride to and from trails.
Absolutely love my Gorilla Monsoon. Such a fun bike on any terrain. A bit conservative with the geometry and more monstercross inspired than mtb, it works so well for singletrack and manages to be fun and nimble on road and gravel as well.
I've got a 2018 Specialized AWOL. Love it. But it seems to be a bike that has been totally ignored. It's steel, and I bought it for that reason (before it's been, apparently, decided that steel isn't real, or wanted), and because it could be upgraded from the stock 38 x 700 tires to 2" wide, if so desired. The only thing I've changed is the stock drop bars for a Ritchie adventure max comp bar. It's fantastic. I have a Jones Loop H-bar on a different bike, but the Richey bar is, by far, much more comfortable on my hands and wrists. I'm thinking about putting those same bars on my Specialized Rock Hopper.
Yay! I stopped riding my 1994 Barracuda mountain bike, in large part because of wrist pain. Went back to road riding. After my first gravel bike, in 2017, with 63 trail, I remembered how comfy I felt on that old Geometry. Just finished building a Crust Bombora in xs(81 trail, and 425 chainstay-almost the same geo of that old Barracuda :). (My handle bars are an 1.5 inch/per decade higher though). Rides like a dream!
2018 Breezer Radar Expert (1x11 Shimano Cassette, GRX derailleur, RaceFace Aeffect Cranks w/Camo System, 29x2.3 Maxxis Ikons, Stans Wheelset, and Redshift Kitchen Sink 50cm Handlebars). I have a set of Jones H-bars for when the back catches up to me. Riding style these days is less about speed and more about distance and scenery, and the ability to camp and fish when and where it looks good.
Love my Black Mountain La Cabra with Ritchey Adventuremax XL bars and 29 x 2.4 tires, it is a great exploring and adventure bike that can handle most situations I stumble into. I've bike packed halfway across Canada on it and have found my way through some really gnarly terrain, its one of those bikes that I always tend to ride more than my other bikes as its just so comfortable and capable. It is not a substitute for a full suspension mtb and just allows a wider, albeit slower envelope of possible places to ride. One thing this 60 year old absolutely loves Neil, are those Ritchey Adventuremax XL bars with the flat top, I wish there were more like them, that flat wide top is like a shelf for your hands, they are so comfortable over long days.
Stopped riding drop bar road bike decades ago and never went back to a drop bar. I continue to ride my flat bar hardtail cross country mountain bike with 2.25" tires for bikepacking and a flat bar bike with 38mm tires for gravel, both with short Ergon bar ends. I'm always comfortable.
Having grown tired of the bike industry's (and to some extent, bike media's) N+1 rhetoric, I sought to own just one bike that I could use on long days in the saddle both road and also some chunkier, gnarlier off-road routes. I ended up with a Tumbleweed Stargazer. I have a set of 29 x 2.2" tires with a semi-slick tread for days of clocking in the road/light gravel miles and some 27x2.8" with more of a mountain bike tread when I'm heading into wet, muddy, gnarlier single track. I've found this one bike to be more than competent and up to the task for most uses. Sure I'm never going to time trial or win a bunch sprint on it, nor am I going to carve my way down a double black diamond mountain bike trial but for the rest that lies in between those ends of the cycling spectrum, this bike (and I believe this category of bikes, in general) really is versatile enough to handle anything you can throw at it.
I still have my original Gen 1 Fargo, probably the first one sold in Colorado. I only rode it with drop bars for about a year before switching to an "alt bar" and never looked back. Last year I got a Chumba Yaupon Ti flat bar build, my most comfortable bike ever. Wish I knew what it is about my proportions that likes drop-bar MTBs without drop bars.
I’m currently waiting on some Wren Perseverance bars to put on my Kona Sutra. I rode the Sutra across the country 2 yrs ago and wanted to put on a bar that let me get aero and wanted to try out flats on it instead. Will report back when I finish the swap!
Not built around a 29" standard but I just picked up an All-City Gorilla Monsoon and it's one of the most fun bikes I've ever ridden. I'm 100% sold on the monstercross category.
I love my Kona Sutra ULTD, probably have around 8k miles on it since 2019. Its my one bike quiver (commuter, bikepacker, trail rig). I did the ratio tech upgrade and threw a eagle groupset on it, also bought some carbon wheels a while back. I do have a full-sus that I pull out when I want to send some chunkier trail, and am building up a Esker Hayduke because I miss my hardtail days, but the Kona is still my main rig.
My dirt drop bike is a 2000s aluminum specialized hot rock. It has a 29inch rigid fork to bring the front end up and out, and surly corner bars. It looks every bit as ridiculous as you’d imagine but it is a beast for touring
Great video; another fun topic would be the modern rigid bikepacking mountain bike and what features are highlighted, or even what options are. Kona unit x, trek 1120, surly krampus!!! what else is out there!?!?
Surly (ghost) grappler for the win! Also enjoyed those couple videos you made on that bike, but you ended up making it the family flat bar commuter :) I have a couple thousand miles of single track on my grappler now and adore the 2.5x27.5 and drop bars.
Dirt drops are aight; I run a 750mm Walmer on my gravel ride and it's cool. I've bombed tech singletrack on them but it always feels like a bad idea. But what made me give them up for trail use was that I got sick of the maintenance of hydraulic brakes. If you're gonna run mechanical, flat bar levers are the way to go. So now I prefer alt-bars like the VO Crazy bar. You get the same mtb leverage control of a wide flat bar, plus aero extensions in roughly the same place as road drops - marginally as fast as a drop bar, but who's counting am I right? And with the huge bonus of having no drops in the way of your handlebar roll to use up all its capacity. They are admittedly weird looking and not at all a sexy looking handlebar. It's a compromise. But all handlebar types are.
Love my Mason ISO, I had never heard of Mason but found it on your 29er drop bar list and the geo looked perfect for what I wanted. Had been doing trips on my gravel bike but wanted something that could handle single track while loaded up without being to long/slack (MTB like) for the paved and dirt road sections that connect the trails.
Now that was an exhaustive compilation of my personal favourite bike category, great job Neil! I really enjoyed learning about the history of the drop-bar MTB dating back to more than a century. As far as the more recent history is concerned, I'd argue that there's one hugely influential person who would have deserved to be mentioned in this video for the credit of modernizing the drop-bar MTB, namely Sam Alison from Singular Cycles. There's no doubt how pioneering a role the Gryphon had in establishing the combination of wide 29er tires, disc brakes and dirt drops at the time of its release back in 2008. Granted, there were probably many early experimenters around and prior to that time, converting their hardtails to drop bars or coming up with other improvisations of the monstercross bike, but it's another thing to launch a production frame that has the ideal characteristics designed specifically for running drops and big rubber (slacker angles, longer front and rear center, shorter reach and higher stack, like mentioned in the video). Oh, and while it was stated that the geometry of the drop-bar MTB has not seen drastic changes in the last few years, there are a few models that have adopted some more progressive features, especially in terms of reach figures. For instance, the Curve GMX+ and the Cotic Cascade have 5 to 8 cm (!) longer reach per frame size than the Salsa Fargo. That difference alone is certainly noticeable in how these bikes handle, even though the head tube angle and fork offset might be more similar between them. The longer reach plays really well with the wider drop bars that were mentioned in this video (when combined with a short stem). It also lends itself to more versatility in terms of cockpit customization as some folks might still prefer to run flat bars periodically (or even permanently if they are so inclined). In that sense, these bikes with more progressive MTB geometry are somewhat akin to the ATB (the definition of which might obviously vary from one person's view to another, and I'm not sure it's even worth to pigeonhole bikes in the first place) as that seems to quite aptly cover this niché (fully rigid disc brake mountain bikes with either drop bars or flat bars).
I think it's fair to say there is more than one person I missed, and in no way is this a complete list of pioneers; if so, Sam and many others would be up there. Thanks for shout out.
Yep I have multiple drop bar MTB from hardtail to full suspension. I love flat bars but I like drops better for the riding I do, so much more comfortable and enjoyable for long rides.
I love dropbarmtb. I have a Cutthroat I have been using setup with wider bars, shorter stem and 2.6 width tires. Does good but a suspension fork would be a nice addition. Lately I have been riding my hardtail more but keep eyeing a Fargo inspired custom frame for a future project designed around a 130mm fork.
I've been riding with the Jones Hbar on my singlespeed MTB for years, and I've even tried it a few times on my titanium Salsa Fargo. I don't know why, but I always end up putting the drop bars back on the Fargo.
I like the handling and geometry of my gravel bike, I don't really need the more upright position of a drop-bar mountain bike, even for multi-day tours. After all, I probably do 70% of my riding on roads. I think there is a difference in the distribution of surfaces you typically ride between America and here in Europe. But I would love to have some 2.2 tires like the continental speed kings on my gravel bike just for the added comfort.
I'm running flat bars on my Stanton but have been considering moving towards drops w/ aerobars in prep for a TD tilt next year. What I'd like to know is what drops keep the larger diameter away from the stem to allow clamping of aerobars to them. Most bars seem to taper down too quickly as they move away from the stem making clamping stuff problematic.
So my biggest question was and remains is there any difference besides the bar? ie. Can we just slap a drop bar on any old bike and voila - drop bar mtb? Or is this something that needs to be designed into the frame? Is there a stem length to consider? Do I need to buy a frame with different reach/stack? etc.
I just like drop bars. Have ridden since 1980, so no flat bars for a few years. Still the FB's never fit my style so I never got into mountain biking. Enter a few years ago and I took the plunge. Have not looked back. Sure they are road bars that help on single track but work comfortably on long rides.
I’d like to included the bombtrack beyond in there, even if max tyre width is 29x2,1. The geometry is a little different with a 73,5* seat tube och 71* head tube, but it has a low stand over height and a 73mm bottom bracket. I have since added a race face cinch crank and an Sram eagle rear derailleur, although that is a ratio technology mullet to go 11 speed. A truly versatile bike which I keep kicking myself over that I own.
I have a Pride (Ukranian brand) RAM 7.3 27.5" MTB with a suspension fork (Rockshox Recon 80mm). Really versatile, fun and fast bike. That bike definitely turns heads :D
just adding this here for my fellow peasants: I went on facebook marketplace and paid around 60 euros for a steel roadbike with one gear and what looked like quality parts, but no frills. when you have no money, one reliable gear is better than 18 which don't work. I struggled up the hills and pushed when I had to, and when I know exactly how I feel about the need for gears and how to get that most reliably I'll get a deralleur or some kind of hub gear, but at the start my money was tight and just getting started was the most important thing. you can absolutely ride across a whole continent with one gear. you'll probably choose to add some, but don't feel like you need an expensive bike or a complicated gearing setup to start. the tyres on my bike were junk so I bought the widest schwalbe marathon plus's that would fit the road rims and it has been great so far (for roads only, so far).
I have a stable of 6 different bikes...If I'm following a new route by GPS and don't know what I'm getting into, the cutthroat is my bike of choice. It will handle just about anything I encounter.
@BIKEPACKINGcom thank you! I wish they did the beacon in a 50cm. I loved my 52's but were a little too wide. And the 46 are too narrow. It may have to be tje venturemax from now on
I haven't ridden a drop bar mtb yet. But, do own an Otso Waheela S, which fits 29x2.1 max in the rear(2.2 front) with geo typical of most gravel bikes. Toe overlap is kind of annoying on that bike & was in the fortunate position thanks to an unfortunate accident to get a custom drop bar mtb/xc bike from WZRD. It will be along the lines of a steel version of a Stigmata or BMC URS, but with clearance for 29x2.5, non-boost.
Love the concept, but it may not be for me. I built a gravel bike to ride rail beds when I wasn't doing single track. Had a set of corner bars on an older Cannondale and loved the extra hand positions. Unfortunately for me, after only about 500 miles, it just wasn't what I wanted or could get comfortable on. I found myself more often grabbing my full sus when hitting the rail beds. I still have the Corner bars, so maybe I'll use them on my full sus.
well my Santos Cross Lite rohloff, I always call it a gravelbike but 2.2 inch tires and its the same frame as the MTB version so I gues its a drop bar montain bike :D but rides like a dream on my bikepacking trips :)
My goto for long trips is my cutthroat, I'm guessing someone designed the handlebars in R&D and some roady called it "bullsh!t", then marketing used that term to come up with the cow chipper. I love those bars, and the bike.
Love my sour purple Haze with 55mm mezcal tires... So much more comfortable for bikepacking in the wild than my rose backroad carbon with 45 mm pirelli cinturato gravel m
I can get a multitude of hand positions with the Jones H-bars and I find flat bar brakes far superior over hooded brakes on drop bars. I don't like the having to move my hands to the drops to get the leverage I need. They're also not great for people with small hands even with adjusting the reach.
Dylan Johnson took 10th place at the 200 mile Unbound Gravel race using 2.2 Continental Race King tires and and a 30mm travel Lauf fork. Check out his TH-cam channel to see his build. The Schwalbe Thunder Burt and Continental Race King mountain bike tire roll faster than nearly all Gravel tires. Personally, I think that a full-sus XC mountain bike with Gravel tires makes a better Gravelbike than a standard Gravelbike. Gravel bikes are getting more like mountain bikes every day. I could easily see the day when Gravelbikes come with up to 100mm travel front and rear and 2.2 or wider tires. A bike like the 80/100mm travel Specialized World Cup XC bike with drop bars could be the ultimate Gravel bike.
And you're completely omitting the fact that he did it on an aero optimized Felt gravel racing frame, with an aero optimized road cockpit. And that his rim choice for the race was specific to negate the aero penalty of those tires so he could get the benefit of minimized risk of flatting out. And the fact he has a university education in sport science, gets paid to coach, and is in better shape than 99.99% of cyclists. Gravel bikes aren't getting more like MTBs. They're adopting elements from mtb and road bikes in equal measure.
@@robinmacandrew103 My Gravelbike is 110/120mm Specialized Epic Evo with 700x47 Specialized Pathfinder Pro Gravel tires. Very fast on pavement and gravel. Still capable on up to blue singletrack. And oh so comfortable!
For me rigid MTB. I have 2 wheelsets ..one for road, gravel, flowy single track...the other for MTB technical trails. I added inner bar ends which completely resolved hand numbness in would experience on long rides.
The big problem with a MTB frame is the use of a Road handlebar with Short Drop! This will cause the tip of the handlebar to hit the Top Tube. The MTB frame, the top Tube is more diagonal. But MTB Frame 26 is the Best, similar a Road Frame, but de Head Tube is more Short.
The first time I converted my hybrid and my mountain bike to drop bars with thumbies was in '92 or '93. Everyone thought it was weird and didn't get the concept. I think the "hate" was because it was during the mountain bike boom of the early '90s and drop bars (along with spandex and shaved legs) were frowned-upon at the time. Now they all have a gravel bike or fat-tired drop bar in their stable. Modern drop bar mountain bikes and gravel bikes are sooooo much better than my Frankenbikes.....although I still ride a few of them to this day.
If you not racing you don’t need a drop bar. If you want more hand positions there are plenty more comfortable options for a flat bar (Crazy Bar etc) Braking and handeling just sucks off road on a drop bar if you ask me…
Now that I'm old, creaky and slow, I can no longer tolerate drop bars. I've opted for a hardtail, 2.2" fast cross-country tires and a swept back straight bar that my body is thankful for... Thanks, and be safe out there!
Similar here. Opted for Jones H-Bar SG 2.5 Loop for age and back-related reasons. I'm not chasing trends, competing with anyone, or trying to be king of Strava segments. I just pedal at a leisurely pace and enjoy life on two wheels. Aerodynamics don't matter at modest speeds, either. Ride smart, not hard. :)
I use a flatbar which I cut very narrow to reduce wing resistance.
Embrace the creek it’s the sound of wisdom;)
I'm 61 and love my flat bar bikes 😊
Same!
I have an early Fargo that enticed me with the description of being a "monster cross and all adventure bike" with 6 bottle cage braze-ons. Mine is "fungi green". The only significant change I did over the years was change the wheels to allow for tubeless tires. I'm at 50,000 km and it's still my daily commuter as well as weekend camper.
I’m all for it. My dirt drop bike is a Ritchey Ascent. Love riding it. Build includes 29 x 2.35 Vittoria tires, Barzo in front, Mezcal in rear, dropper post, wide handlebar, and suspension stem. 1X mullet drive train with Rival in front and Eagle in the rear. The forest calls, and I must ride.
The Salsa Woodchipper drop bars on my and my wife's 2019 Fargo's give a nice neutral wrist position when ridden in the drops, which is where we ride 95% of the time. An Apex 1X12 drive train, a 32 tooth chainring with an 11-50 cassette and 29 x 2.35" Mezcals all around make them almost unstoppable. For the stopping department, a switch to Growtac Equal mechanical brakes gives them nearly the modulation of the SRAM Hydro R's that it came with, and more power, without the sticky piston issues in fine dusty conditions that used to require irritatingly frequent cleaning. We love them!
I adore my Tumbleweed Stargazer. Never fails to put a smile on my face. It's taken me into deeper unknowns than any other bike.
Have 2020 Fargo and generally love it. I have it geared on the low side for trails and Class IV roads in VT. It's a great all day bike.
how much does the frame weigh
Hand built one here. Brilliant bike. I think its one of the best formats there is for general all purpose cycling. Like 90s mountain biking all over again.
Love my Cutthroat, I use it as a gravel bike. It’s got a Rival axs gx drivetrain, so basically mountain bike gearing. Running 50mm Gravelking SKs. Theses bikes are so capable and fun,on everything from road to pretty gnarly single track.
50mm cinturatos on my cutthroat currently 😊
I love my Fargo. It’s great for single track climbing…..less so for descents. Usually after a few months of flat bar pounding it’s a great respite to reach for the Fargo and ride
Loved this video's documentary style, and the fact that it was on my favorite bike packing/gravel bike topic (tire size) was the icing on the cake. The trend is towards wider tires, and for good reason. If you're on rough gravel, they're just more comfortable and confidence inspiring.
Awesome history piece, Neil!!
Great video on dropbar mtn segment. I used to ride with "The Bubbas", Chuck Hoefer and Mike Varley back in the 1980's. My current love ride is a Black Mountain Cycles La Cabra drop bar mtn bike. It has a Secret Sauce ride quality that is smooth and stable, yet climbs and corners like a goat. I went back to drop bars for the neutral hand position with Salsa Cowchippers to alleviate hand, wrist, elbow pain. Extra surprise benefit for me was the smoother ride of the La Cabra over my very expensive and very stiff Ti mtn bike frame with Fox 34 usually ridden in locked position. A huge improvement for bikepacking with drops and a more flexible steel frame that is not overbuilt.
Love my Stargazer, Its fun to under bike on single-track day rides and its fantastic for bike packing with anything from 50mm tires on smother rides to 2.6" on trails. I own a fast carbon gravel bike and 2 different travel FS bikes but the Stargazer covers allot of the riding in between these.
i'm currently riding the European Divide Trail, 7800km over Gravel and Single Track through Europe, on a Cinelli Hobootleg Geo and it's been an absolute blast so far. Perfect combination of versatility, robustness and speed for me.
Started riding mtbs in the 90s in Mill Valley where Potts was located at the time and his drop bar bikes with tall droopy stems were cult popular. But they were well beyond my means at the time. Many years later my friend and Cutty super fan convinced me that I “needed” one. He was right. I bought a V2 cutty in late 2019 and couldn’t get enough of it. I rode the heck out of that bike until it was demolished in a collision with a moto in late 23Replaced it with a Corvid MAP with an XO transmission mullet and just when I thought things couldn’t get better they did. The MAP is just UNBELIEVABLE. Silent, supple and an absolute joy to ride. So…yeah…drop bar mtbs are great!!!
My 1987 Bridgestone MB-1 came stock with Nitto Dirt Drops and Suntour barend shifters. Used to see many drop bar MTBs living in Crested Butte, CO. Got to visit Cunningham in CA and he let me ride Jacquie Phelan's bike in Marin. Great bikes if you have a long ways to ride to and from trails.
Absolutely love my Gorilla Monsoon. Such a fun bike on any terrain. A bit conservative with the geometry and more monstercross inspired than mtb, it works so well for singletrack and manages to be fun and nimble on road and gravel as well.
1987 Bridgestone MB-1 was most likely the first mass-produced dropbar MTB.
I think you're right, looks two years before the Rock Combo in 1989.
Loved the format. Can't wait for Part II
I'm loving the Corvus Crow Pass. Seriously cool bike.
That axle pack is such a smart idea I’m getting a set
I've got a 2018 Specialized AWOL. Love it. But it seems to be a bike that has been totally ignored. It's steel, and I bought it for that reason (before it's been, apparently, decided that steel isn't real, or wanted), and because it could be upgraded from the stock 38 x 700 tires to 2" wide, if so desired. The only thing I've changed is the stock drop bars for a Ritchie adventure max comp bar. It's fantastic. I have a Jones Loop H-bar on a different bike, but the Richey bar is, by far, much more comfortable on my hands and wrists. I'm thinking about putting those same bars on my Specialized Rock Hopper.
Yay! I stopped riding my 1994 Barracuda mountain bike, in large part because of wrist pain. Went back to road riding. After my first gravel bike, in 2017, with 63 trail, I remembered how comfy I felt on that old Geometry. Just finished building a Crust Bombora in xs(81 trail, and 425 chainstay-almost the same geo of that old Barracuda :).
(My handle bars are an 1.5 inch/per decade higher though). Rides like a dream!
2018 Breezer Radar Expert (1x11 Shimano Cassette, GRX derailleur, RaceFace Aeffect Cranks w/Camo System, 29x2.3 Maxxis Ikons, Stans Wheelset, and Redshift Kitchen Sink 50cm Handlebars). I have a set of Jones H-bars for when the back catches up to me. Riding style these days is less about speed and more about distance and scenery, and the ability to camp and fish when and where it looks good.
I converted my 2018 trek stache to a drop bar and it's awesome.
My Ti fargo is the second love of my life! perfect for bikepacking and more challenging trail here in PNW
Love my Black Mountain La Cabra with Ritchey Adventuremax XL bars and 29 x 2.4 tires, it is a great exploring and adventure bike that can handle most situations I stumble into. I've bike packed halfway across Canada on it and have found my way through some really gnarly terrain, its one of those bikes that I always tend to ride more than my other bikes as its just so comfortable and capable. It is not a substitute for a full suspension mtb and just allows a wider, albeit slower envelope of possible places to ride.
One thing this 60 year old absolutely loves Neil, are those Ritchey Adventuremax XL bars with the flat top, I wish there were more like them, that flat wide top is like a shelf for your hands, they are so comfortable over long days.
Stopped riding drop bar road bike decades ago and never went back to a drop bar. I continue to ride my flat bar hardtail cross country mountain bike with 2.25" tires for bikepacking and a flat bar bike with 38mm tires for gravel, both with short Ergon bar ends. I'm always comfortable.
YAY, riding my old Bridgestone MB5 with dropbars and I love it. Looking at a Niner full suspension though
Having grown tired of the bike industry's (and to some extent, bike media's) N+1 rhetoric, I sought to own just one bike that I could use on long days in the saddle both road and also some chunkier, gnarlier off-road routes. I ended up with a Tumbleweed Stargazer. I have a set of 29 x 2.2" tires with a semi-slick tread for days of clocking in the road/light gravel miles and some 27x2.8" with more of a mountain bike tread when I'm heading into wet, muddy, gnarlier single track.
I've found this one bike to be more than competent and up to the task for most uses. Sure I'm never going to time trial or win a bunch sprint on it, nor am I going to carve my way down a double black diamond mountain bike trial but for the rest that lies in between those ends of the cycling spectrum, this bike (and I believe this category of bikes, in general) really is versatile enough to handle anything you can throw at it.
I still have my original Gen 1 Fargo, probably the first one sold in Colorado. I only rode it with drop bars for about a year before switching to an "alt bar" and never looked back. Last year I got a Chumba Yaupon Ti flat bar build, my most comfortable bike ever. Wish I knew what it is about my proportions that likes drop-bar MTBs without drop bars.
I’m currently waiting on some Wren Perseverance bars to put on my Kona Sutra. I rode the Sutra across the country 2 yrs ago and wanted to put on a bar that let me get aero and wanted to try out flats on it instead. Will report back when I finish the swap!
Not built around a 29" standard but I just picked up an All-City Gorilla Monsoon and it's one of the most fun bikes I've ever ridden. I'm 100% sold on the monstercross category.
I love my Kona Sutra ULTD, probably have around 8k miles on it since 2019. Its my one bike quiver (commuter, bikepacker, trail rig). I did the ratio tech upgrade and threw a eagle groupset on it, also bought some carbon wheels a while back. I do have a full-sus that I pull out when I want to send some chunkier trail, and am building up a Esker Hayduke because I miss my hardtail days, but the Kona is still my main rig.
I have a Panorama Cycles Taiga EXP 2 and I love it!
My dirt drop bike is a 2000s aluminum specialized hot rock. It has a 29inch rigid fork to bring the front end up and out, and surly corner bars. It looks every bit as ridiculous as you’d imagine but it is a beast for touring
Great video; another fun topic would be the modern rigid bikepacking mountain bike and what features are highlighted, or even what options are. Kona unit x, trek 1120, surly krampus!!! what else is out there!?!?
Surly (ghost) grappler for the win! Also enjoyed those couple videos you made on that bike, but you ended up making it the family flat bar commuter :)
I have a couple thousand miles of single track on my grappler now and adore the 2.5x27.5 and drop bars.
Neil, you’re a Trans Iowa vet, too!? Right on! I finished Trans Iowa V9 on a Fargo.
I put Curve Walmer 60cm bars on my Salsa Fargo and think it is one of my most capable bikes. 27.5+ tires help too!
Dirt drops are aight; I run a 750mm Walmer on my gravel ride and it's cool. I've bombed tech singletrack on them but it always feels like a bad idea. But what made me give them up for trail use was that I got sick of the maintenance of hydraulic brakes. If you're gonna run mechanical, flat bar levers are the way to go. So now I prefer alt-bars like the VO Crazy bar. You get the same mtb leverage control of a wide flat bar, plus aero extensions in roughly the same place as road drops - marginally as fast as a drop bar, but who's counting am I right? And with the huge bonus of having no drops in the way of your handlebar roll to use up all its capacity. They are admittedly weird looking and not at all a sexy looking handlebar. It's a compromise. But all handlebar types are.
Love my Mason ISO, I had never heard of Mason but found it on your 29er drop bar list and the geo looked perfect for what I wanted. Had been doing trips on my gravel bike but wanted something that could handle single track while loaded up without being to long/slack (MTB like) for the paved and dirt road sections that connect the trails.
Haven’t tried drop bars on an MTB yet but I love my converted hybrid.
Now that was an exhaustive compilation of my personal favourite bike category, great job Neil! I really enjoyed learning about the history of the drop-bar MTB dating back to more than a century. As far as the more recent history is concerned, I'd argue that there's one hugely influential person who would have deserved to be mentioned in this video for the credit of modernizing the drop-bar MTB, namely Sam Alison from Singular Cycles. There's no doubt how pioneering a role the Gryphon had in establishing the combination of wide 29er tires, disc brakes and dirt drops at the time of its release back in 2008. Granted, there were probably many early experimenters around and prior to that time, converting their hardtails to drop bars or coming up with other improvisations of the monstercross bike, but it's another thing to launch a production frame that has the ideal characteristics designed specifically for running drops and big rubber (slacker angles, longer front and rear center, shorter reach and higher stack, like mentioned in the video).
Oh, and while it was stated that the geometry of the drop-bar MTB has not seen drastic changes in the last few years, there are a few models that have adopted some more progressive features, especially in terms of reach figures. For instance, the Curve GMX+ and the Cotic Cascade have 5 to 8 cm (!) longer reach per frame size than the Salsa Fargo. That difference alone is certainly noticeable in how these bikes handle, even though the head tube angle and fork offset might be more similar between them. The longer reach plays really well with the wider drop bars that were mentioned in this video (when combined with a short stem). It also lends itself to more versatility in terms of cockpit customization as some folks might still prefer to run flat bars periodically (or even permanently if they are so inclined). In that sense, these bikes with more progressive MTB geometry are somewhat akin to the ATB (the definition of which might obviously vary from one person's view to another, and I'm not sure it's even worth to pigeonhole bikes in the first place) as that seems to quite aptly cover this niché (fully rigid disc brake mountain bikes with either drop bars or flat bars).
I think it's fair to say there is more than one person I missed, and in no way is this a complete list of pioneers; if so, Sam and many others would be up there. Thanks for shout out.
Yep I have multiple drop bar MTB from hardtail to full suspension. I love flat bars but I like drops better for the riding I do, so much more comfortable and enjoyable for long rides.
Salsa deadwood here. Love the 3 in tires
YAY!
And also; finally (!) - as I've grown tired of giving history lessons on what these bikes were, then died off, then became again.
I did it in the early 90s, ultegra levers, cinelli bars, and some ultergra barend gear levers, I was a fan of Tomac, not sure I would want them now
I love dropbarmtb. I have a Cutthroat I have been using setup with wider bars, shorter stem and 2.6 width tires. Does good but a suspension fork would be a nice addition. Lately I have been riding my hardtail more but keep eyeing a Fargo inspired custom frame for a future project designed around a 130mm fork.
I've been riding with the Jones Hbar on my singlespeed MTB for years, and I've even tried it a few times on my titanium Salsa Fargo. I don't know why, but I always end up putting the drop bars back on the Fargo.
I like the handling and geometry of my gravel bike, I don't really need the more upright position of a drop-bar mountain bike, even for multi-day tours. After all, I probably do 70% of my riding on roads. I think there is a difference in the distribution of surfaces you typically ride between America and here in Europe. But I would love to have some 2.2 tires like the continental speed kings on my gravel bike just for the added comfort.
Had the 27.5 SpeedKings on and off on the gravel bike. Can only just fit the 29 in the fork.
They are a pretty nice tyre for road and mild gravel.
I'm running flat bars on my Stanton but have been considering moving towards drops w/ aerobars in prep for a TD tilt next year. What I'd like to know is what drops keep the larger diameter away from the stem to allow clamping of aerobars to them. Most bars seem to taper down too quickly as they move away from the stem making clamping stuff problematic.
So my biggest question was and remains is there any difference besides the bar? ie. Can we just slap a drop bar on any old bike and voila - drop bar mtb? Or is this something that needs to be designed into the frame? Is there a stem length to consider? Do I need to buy a frame with different reach/stack? etc.
I just like drop bars. Have ridden since 1980, so no flat bars for a few years. Still the FB's never fit my style so I never got into mountain biking. Enter a few years ago and I took the plunge. Have not looked back. Sure they are road bars that help on single track but work comfortably on long rides.
Tumbleweed stargazer and otso fenrir are my dream bikes, altough they are quite different . Unfortunately can't deliver any to eastern Europe :(
I’d like to included the bombtrack beyond in there, even if max tyre width is 29x2,1. The geometry is a little different with a 73,5* seat tube och 71* head tube, but it has a low stand over height and a 73mm bottom bracket. I have since added a race face cinch crank and an Sram eagle rear derailleur, although that is a ratio technology mullet to go 11 speed. A truly versatile bike which I keep kicking myself over that I own.
Good god that spech rock combo is my new vintage holy grail bike
Forgot to mention the pioneer Singular Cycles 🏆
I have a Pride (Ukranian brand) RAM 7.3 27.5" MTB with a suspension fork (Rockshox Recon 80mm). Really versatile, fun and fast bike. That bike definitely turns heads :D
Still have my OG 1985 Bridgestone MB-1
just adding this here for my fellow peasants: I went on facebook marketplace and paid around 60 euros for a steel roadbike with one gear and what looked like quality parts, but no frills. when you have no money, one reliable gear is better than 18 which don't work. I struggled up the hills and pushed when I had to, and when I know exactly how I feel about the need for gears and how to get that most reliably I'll get a deralleur or some kind of hub gear, but at the start my money was tight and just getting started was the most important thing. you can absolutely ride across a whole continent with one gear. you'll probably choose to add some, but don't feel like you need an expensive bike or a complicated gearing setup to start. the tyres on my bike were junk so I bought the widest schwalbe marathon plus's that would fit the road rims and it has been great so far (for roads only, so far).
My 90's fullsus mtb frame now whit a dropbar n i love it 😙😙😙
A bit off topic but where can I get your chameleon shirt it's so cool , what brand is this ? Greetings from Germany :)
I have a stable of 6 different bikes...If I'm following a new route by GPS and don't know what I'm getting into, the cutthroat is my bike of choice. It will handle just about anything I encounter.
Hey neil! Great vid as always. Just a quick question. What brand and width bars do you run on your cutthroat? Thanks! 😊
I have the Ritchey Venture Max XL’s on it now. Been on there for maybe 4 years.
@BIKEPACKINGcom thank you! I wish they did the beacon in a 50cm. I loved my 52's but were a little too wide. And the 46 are too narrow. It may have to be tje venturemax from now on
I haven't ridden a drop bar mtb yet. But, do own an Otso Waheela S, which fits 29x2.1 max in the rear(2.2 front) with geo typical of most gravel bikes. Toe overlap is kind of annoying on that bike & was in the fortunate position thanks to an unfortunate accident to get a custom drop bar mtb/xc bike from WZRD. It will be along the lines of a steel version of a Stigmata or BMC URS, but with clearance for 29x2.5, non-boost.
Love the concept, but it may not be for me. I built a gravel bike to ride rail beds when I wasn't doing single track. Had a set of corner bars on an older Cannondale and loved the extra hand positions. Unfortunately for me, after only about 500 miles, it just wasn't what I wanted or could get comfortable on. I found myself more often grabbing my full sus when hitting the rail beds. I still have the Corner bars, so maybe I'll use them on my full sus.
well my Santos Cross Lite rohloff, I always call it a gravelbike but 2.2 inch tires and its the same frame as the MTB version so I gues its a drop bar montain bike :D
but rides like a dream on my bikepacking trips :)
I own a fargo. Still ride it today. Also converted a 90's mtb with drops. Let's say Salsa knows what they are doing.
Hi neil! Love your polo! Where'd you get it?
I love my bones rattled in to dust while I tell everyone that bigger tire volume is all the suspension needed.😆
Which is why I love my mukluk...
My goto for long trips is my cutthroat, I'm guessing someone designed the handlebars in R&D and some roady called it "bullsh!t", then marketing used that term to come up with the cow chipper. I love those bars, and the bike.
Love my sour purple Haze with 55mm mezcal tires... So much more comfortable for bikepacking in the wild than my rose backroad carbon with 45 mm pirelli cinturato gravel m
Never a wrong time for coffee hot or cold😊
Drop bars are sooo much more comfortable it’s a no-brainer!
Don‘t forget the Singular Gryphon 👌 MK1 it’s from around 2006…
I can get a multitude of hand positions with the Jones H-bars and I find flat bar brakes far superior over hooded brakes on drop bars. I don't like the having to move my hands to the drops to get the leverage I need. They're also not great for people with small hands even with adjusting the reach.
Love my Otso Fenrir!
Every video is better with a Jesse cameo!
I use a adjustable headstem and high riser bar plus suspension sadle pin, the suntour ones. It's the age I guess. And keeps you in a sadle.
Singular Cycles have been doing fat tyre drop bar since 2006…
Dylan Johnson took 10th place at the 200 mile Unbound Gravel race using 2.2 Continental Race King tires and and a 30mm travel Lauf fork. Check out his TH-cam channel to see his build.
The Schwalbe Thunder Burt and Continental Race King mountain bike tire roll faster than nearly all Gravel tires.
Personally, I think that a full-sus XC mountain bike with Gravel tires makes a better Gravelbike than a standard Gravelbike.
Gravel bikes are getting more like mountain bikes every day. I could easily see the day when Gravelbikes come with up to 100mm travel front and rear and 2.2 or wider tires. A bike like the 80/100mm travel Specialized World Cup XC bike with drop bars could be the ultimate Gravel bike.
Totally agree. I’ve ditched my gravel bike (which I kept adding MTB components to) for my full sus with gravel tyres. I’m more comfortable and faster…
And you're completely omitting the fact that he did it on an aero optimized Felt gravel racing frame, with an aero optimized road cockpit. And that his rim choice for the race was specific to negate the aero penalty of those tires so he could get the benefit of minimized risk of flatting out. And the fact he has a university education in sport science, gets paid to coach, and is in better shape than 99.99% of cyclists. Gravel bikes aren't getting more like MTBs. They're adopting elements from mtb and road bikes in equal measure.
@@robinmacandrew103 My Gravelbike is 110/120mm Specialized Epic Evo with 700x47 Specialized Pathfinder Pro Gravel tires. Very fast on pavement and gravel. Still capable on up to blue singletrack. And oh so comfortable!
Why even bother with gravel tires if you know the wider xc tires are faster?
Do most people with boost spacing drop bar MTBs, use conventional flat pedals?
For me rigid MTB. I have 2 wheelsets ..one for road, gravel, flowy single track...the other for MTB technical trails. I added inner bar ends which completely resolved hand numbness in would experience on long rides.
The big problem with a MTB frame is the use of a Road handlebar with Short Drop!
This will cause the tip of the handlebar to hit the Top Tube.
The MTB frame, the top Tube is more diagonal.
But MTB Frame 26 is the Best, similar a Road Frame, but de Head Tube is more Short.
I need this shirt, and of course nice Video
don't forget Bruce Gordon and the Rock-n-Road.
7:22 What can you tell us about the bike and bag setup?
Broke both wrist; can't really ride a flat bar without pain. Love having drops on my bmc two-stroke al
Neil, who makes that rad chameleon shirt??? I need it
Fargo (2017 I think) here, although it mostly lives w/ 40's. Power plant is underpowered and old.
I'd love me a drop bar MTB, but I abhor those wide handlebars (both flat and drop).
ride what makes you feel good. for me, that's flat or alt bars. i'm done with drop bars, but you do you...whatever gets you on the bike.
The first time I converted my hybrid and my mountain bike to drop bars with thumbies was in '92 or '93. Everyone thought it was weird and didn't get the concept. I think the "hate" was because it was during the mountain bike boom of the early '90s and drop bars (along with spandex and shaved legs) were frowned-upon at the time. Now they all have a gravel bike or fat-tired drop bar in their stable. Modern drop bar mountain bikes and gravel bikes are sooooo much better than my Frankenbikes.....although I still ride a few of them to this day.
Yay!
If you not racing you don’t need a drop bar. If you want more hand positions there are plenty more comfortable options for a flat bar (Crazy Bar etc) Braking and handeling just sucks off road on a drop bar if you ask me…
When can we expect video #2? 🙂☺
Next month :)
@@BIKEPACKINGcom looking forward to it
Part 2 pleeeeease
Team Yar!
Nukeproof Digger! 😎❤