Hell: Eternal Torment or Annihilation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2022
- Minister Mark walks us through two views about what Hell might look like. Will those who have not believed suffer eternal and conscious torture and the absence of God? Or will they suffer for a time, and then be annihilated and destroyed?
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Well it is a debate that needs to be solved Because there are people out there that refuse to believe in our god because they refuse to worship a god that would send people to a place of eternal torture.
If hell is eternal torment then God is more evil then the worst dictator. He is actually more evil then Satan.
I mean, its not Satan who created hell.
If people wants to love and obey such an evil diety Its up to them.
I know this has been months ago but I would like to add that it’s only mentioned humans get eternal bodies when they go to heaven not hell.
Yes, that’s me
@@grimlundTrue, god even created Satan, or am I wrong ?
@@asapsinclair5491 He created Satan, yeah. And God is all knowing so he must have knew that Satan would rebell against him.
Christianity doesnt make sence.
"The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day and night." That sounds like forever.
Why didn't God tell Adam he would burn eternally? No mention of eternal torment, nhe said death would be the punishment! Romans 6:23 , "For the wages sin pays is DEATH,...! Romans 6:7 says ,"For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin."
@@carolmueller748 Maybe he did but it wasn't recorded.
You should never argue from ignorance or from silence. Also, your comment is irrelevant since my comment was that the Bible seems to me to say that Hell is forever.
All these years I believed in torment but now that I’m studying this subject I think it’s been forever changed. This helped a lot and it makes sense that angels are given eternal bodies but humans are only mentioned to receive one when going to heaven.
*"...humans are only mentioned to receive one when going to heaven."* That is almost right, FTB. The followers of Christ will receive their glorified bodies at the resurrection. That, as you no doubt know, will happen on Earth. ✴ _...He_ [the Lord] _will raise you up to inherit the earth;_ (Psalms 37: 34b, NAB)
@@IsaacNussbaumon question, where in Scripture does it say that the redeemed will go to heaven? It does say that those that His angels gather will put on immortal souls and incorruptible bodies but it also says that they will reign with Him as priests for a thousand years. And after judgment day, they will inhabit the new earth.
@@IsaacNussbaumI misread your comment. This question should be for fotthebelievers
@@IsaacNussbaum that is a great response! I just seen this but I’m going to point out that that’s the same thing because I was mentioning a body received by the saved.
@@TheWeberFamily805 Actually, FTB, there is a subtle difference. I respectfully submit that the saved do not go to heaven at or after the resurrection. They get their body on Earth and remain in that body, on Earth, for all eternity.
Yes I tend to agree. The bible says everlasting punishment not everlasting punishing. If God allowed everlasting agony and screaming for all eternity then evil is NEVER done away with. So while we are in eternal bliss there would be some realm where people are continually in agony. Eternal means in that environment at that time. The bible mentions the eternal flames of Sodom and Gomorrah. If you went to Sodom now, would you see the flames still burning?
I've been teaching this since 1980, but I never thought of what you said, "then evil is NEVER done away with", thank you for that, I never thought of that, I'll be adding that to my videos and blogs.
Yes its interesting, I'm glad that was an extra thought that you will find helpful.@@bryang2k3
The soul is not mortal so it doesnt feel physical pain. The human body is not eternal so it cant feel physical pain after death
Ok Plato. Nice pagan believe you have there. Try reading Gen 2:7. Dust + Breath of life (spirit) = living soul. You Are a soul. You don’t have a soul. Btw the Hebrew word is simply “breathing creature”
Except the word translated as torment in Revelation "...smoke of their torment rises forever..." is a Greek word that literally means torture, it does NOT mean annihilation.
Thank you for posting this and sorry I missed the week you taught on this. This is a question I've struggled with for many years now, having grown up only hearing one side. I truly am thankful to have a pastor whose goal is to teach and lead, which includes presenting opposing views.
Amen very commendable that he would present both views and brave in many circles.
I appreciate the fact that he didn't come down hard and heavy on this subject like most do. It's not the minister's job to convince us of his bias, but to lay the Word out carefully, in balance, for others to consider.
I wish he would have included ultimate reconciliation too. I think there is Biblical support for all 3 views of Christian eschatology.
@@johndalton1043what is ultimate reconciliation?
@@robertschmidt9296 It is the understanding that God is all loving and all powerful. He desires for all to come to repentance so they will...in this lifetime or the next. In a nutshell, it is post mortem salvation. This is the teaching of the very first school of Christian theology in Alexandria.
hell is more like pergutory. Ultimately everybody goes to heaven.@@robertschmidt9296
He’s just appeasing his base so he can continue to take money from them and live comfortably within his dogma. (Called church)
Fire in our world since the dawn of man has been an end of things. Ashes to ashes dust to dust. Once it's burned up, it's gone. God is the supreme loving being. Perfect love. If you no longer exist... that would be eternal. And if the other option was to live for eternity with god then to no longer exist would be eternal damnation... The almighty father is so much more than we can fully comprehend while we are in this human form. But I believe he is loving, faithful and just.
Right. And the only reason the Bible would refer to it as the 'Eternal punishment' is because even the Saved still die, but they don't stay dead.
Everlasting fire or eternal cannot be compared to earthly fire. Earthly fire is not everlasting.
Very well said. One thing I would offer: both ECT and Annihilation qualify as “eternal punishment.” In Annihilationism, the punishment is death and it lasts forever.
It is definitely not eternal conscious torment. But ----- eternal death.
@@maxamahnken7325
th-cam.com/video/-Z-9RCuV0Lg/w-d-xo.html
@@maxamahnken7325 Read Revelation 25. Here we find sinners outside of the gate after the LOF, and the gate is always open.
@@johndalton1043 what; is LOF?
@@maxamahnken7325 I think lof stands for lake of fire. After looking at the Greek translation, there are those who believe that the lake of fire is God's divine lake of purifying fire. Being symbolic and not literal.
Im a random guy from Canada but i consider this church blessed for such a humbling way to conduct this coversation.
Thank you for not condemning those you disagree with.
He condemns them in part 2 of this series
@@rambleon2011that figures, many infernalists are modern pharisees
This is very moving and helpful. I’m grateful for the information.
Eternal fire indicates a fire that is always lit, making it impossible for unrepented sinners to avoid it. Also it means that it destroys forever. Be that as it may, I'm still not sure which doctrine is correct, but either way I'd love if Yahushua could forgive my terrible sins.
e3 Verses ! Watch what the eternal fire does Jude 7/ Luke 17:29/ 2 Peter 2:6. The eternal fire that destroyede burning them to ashes is an example to all who choose to live an ungodly lives
Jude 7 as someone else's pointed out talks about Sodom and Gomorrah as examples of those who will suffer eternal fire.. Of course we all know those cities were destroyed
@@robertray4191 A physical example on this earth. Physical fire requires fuel. Fuel on this earth burns up and dies out. Jesus said hell fire is eternal (not quenched). The fuel for that fire doesn't seem to be expiring (fire not quenched, the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever). It's more about the 'consciousness' of those in the fire. Before we are born we are not conscious. I consider that because Jesus said of Judas that it would have been better Judas if he had never been born. Judas wasn't conscious before he was born...and that state would have been better for Judas.
His name is not Yahushua, its Yashu. There are some really good videos about this subject.
The Lord Jesus Christ has forgiven you if you have repented and live according to His will and commandments, which are all written in scripture. As far as the east is from the west, the Bible tells us, so far has He removed our sins from us. All we need to do is obey Him. That's what His death on the cross and His resurrection from the dead is all about - Redemption.
Revelation 20:14 "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." The lake of fire stands for eternal destruction, you will see God reveals his word to his chosen ones 1st Corinthians 15:26" 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death." Why would God throw a thing like " death" in the lake of fire if the lake of fire is eternal suffering? That's because the lake of fire is the second death Wich is eternal destruction!
In the last chapter of Revelation, after the LOF, sinners remain outside the gate.
What do you mean by "eternal destruction" like it's destroyed, it has an end? And people in hell were destroyed by fire but not burning over and over again in hell?
@@johndalton1043 but you couldn't enter into the gates unless you washed your robe, so this sounds like God giving people a chance to get right. If he is truly the God of 2nd chances his mercy endures forever.
@@marcusmuse4787 💯 agree. I believe in ultimate reconciliation. The gate is always open.
Re Ulises..
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (The Second Death is not to distract from the 'once and for all death' that Jesus died, but to endorse it. In the lake of fire, Death and Hades are eradicated from memory. The first death is the 'once and for all death' that Jesus died, representing the global death of humankind. Jesus' death took mankind's death in Adam out of the equation. [Heb 9:27,28; 2Cor 5:14-17].
The idea of the Second Death has to do with the fact that the revelation of everyone’s inclusion in the death of Jesus, has not yet dawned on some - so it will take a crisis, often, their own death, to immediately engage them with the symbolic cleansing [from their unbelief] represented by the lake of burning sulphur, purifying like in a furnace, separating the gold from the dross-mindsets. Rev 2:11 + Rev 20:6
The Mirror Study Bible.
Living in this world is punishing.
Yes it is...
This is what removes hi levels of anxiety. Thank you.
“This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.” (1 Tim. 4:9-11)
Col 1:18-20.And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, 19 for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, 20 and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens."
Well said!
Some denominations need eternal punishment to make their election seem more important. But, the bible constantly says soul will die, and their punishment is forever. Not their torment. God would have to go back on his word about the sinning soul dying if he actually eternally keeps them alive. So, im leaning towards punishment, leading to death eternally not eternal punishment.
I agree wholeheartedly with most of your post. The one thing I am not quite sure about is the punishment part. I am inclined to think that there might not be any punishment other than annihilation simply because Satan has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe and, thus, they are incapable of believing.
✴ _Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News._ (2 Corinthians 4: 4a; NLT)
"The wages of sin is DEATH (not eternal torment), but the gift of God is eternal life."
One day, I decided to study the topic of hell simply because I had studied about heaven and realized that I learned some things wrong. Heaven wasn't a place in the sky where you just fly around all day. Once I studied it, a lot started to come together way more clearly on the annihilation side. I asked myself things like, "why do I believe that terms like "perish" and "destruction" are about spiritual destruction and not physical?" I found not backing in the entire Bible to the claim of spiritual destruction only, even though I was very open to the concept. I just couldn't justify it. Then I went online and saw that I wasn't the only one seeing it that way. There's so much more that supports annihilation and that answers questions about biblical matters regarding life than what supports eternal hell. People's visions shouldn't be our guide, especially because the devil will definitely give many people deceitful experiences to drive messages that will enslave us. Also, believing in eternal hell implies that the every soul is innately immortal. It is not. 1 Timothy 6:16 itself says that God alone possesses immortality and Romans 2:7 says that whoever wants immortality, it will be a gift to the ones who chose Christ. The whole idea of getting an INCORRUPTIBLE body is because the other side won't get one. Adam & Eve were created to be eternal but not immortal. Immortal means not having the ability to die. Eternal means having the ability to lose life but granted the privilege to never die. Jesus said that after his second coming, He'll have defeated all his enemies, death being the last of them so we could assume every one is immortal now or will be immortal after his second coming. However, you'll see that death is fully done away with after we get our glorified bodies and the second death event happens, meaning after the wicked have already received their condemnation sentence. Then he can hand new heavens and earth cleansed to God. So this means people in the second death are not made immortal and there's no other reason why God would keep them alive eternally. How can you have a universe completely fixed to reflect the perfect atributes of God when you have a hell constantly expressing extreme pain, anger, violence and sorrow? It can't. This goes for satan and his angels too. They must be fully destroyed, eliminated so there's no more shadow of these things in the heavenly places and on Earth. When I read the term "forever and ever" in the Bible and notice how it's used in other passages, I see that it's often times a figure of speech to indicate a very long period of time. Jude 1:6 says angels are chained in "eternal chains" UNTIL judgment day. Obviously not forever and ever. One could argue that at least satan and his angels would burn forever for being immortal but unless God made them immortal from before the fall of the angels, they could not burn forever themselves since the Word says God alone is the possessor of immortality so it implies He gives it to whomever He wishes. To not have rest "day and night" also doesn't necessarily mean that it's something forever. It means that, for as long as that activity takes place, there will be no break, no pause, no rest in the suffering. And terms like "eternal punishment" means that the punishment cannot be overturned, cannot be changed back. It is a sentence established forever. Think about this, if all these people having dreams about demons torturing humans forever and ever are right, who is going to torture satan and these same demons who are supposed to be torturing the wicked forever? Does that even make any sense? Regardless of what the answer is, the desire to come to God should be the same: to come to God for who He is to live eternally beside him. Whether God will separate you through total elimination or total torture, it is of lesser importance.
No matter which one of these endings one believes in, it's not a "deal breaker" so to speak when it comes to our salvation.
Let's not worry over these things and focus on winning souls for God's Kingdom.
Amen! you know I’ve been stressing myself lately with the idea of hell our sinful flesh would love the idea of annihilating on the other hand eternal consciousness in fire or pain is just SCARY! Think about it long enough and your like dang that’s terrible either way hell is bad and we should follow God pls pray for me to stop worrying about hell 🙏🏽
@@Randomcomedy101 And "God" created hell and didn't have to.
@@granddaddyofthemall6320 He did it because he is just ALL evil that is not reborn or saved must be punished God is infinitely just,forever and always no matter what hell is. We may not understand that but that is beyond me
@@Randomcomedy101 You said must be it doesn't have to be "God" does it because it wants to.
@@granddaddyofthemall6320 no god intention was a perfect kingdom but the devil rebelled and brought sin into the world through Adam and Eve. Sin or evil cannot be in the presence of God it would be annihilated in an instant this is why we cannot enter heaven until we are saved and the sins are washed away. That way we may inherit the kingdom god intended for us. Remember we have free will god does not predestin our path we have to choose, that is why the wage of sin is death. If it wasn't that would make our God look unjust which he is not by any means. It is the only way for perfection evil must be purified.
The thing that messes with us here is our limited perception and understanding of reality. Looking at eternity through the lens of time is a problem. What if there is no more time at that point? There is just life or death. The question now is what is life and death? If life is existing with God, is death then non-existence or is it existence outside of the presence of God? Thank you for laying this topic out- it is important. God bless
It's a tricky concept..while satan,. beast.falst.prohet.amt all those who accepted the mark are tormented."day and night", yet eternity from our perspective is the realm without beginning and ending, eternity is where God dwells. And time is where this universe is and.wr are (the space time continuum.) I think somehow God integrates the two, time is perceived but we are eternal too. It's a mystery.
WOW!! What a deeply thought out self discussion. I agree. For us to determine eternity with a fallen, time stamped mind set is not healthy. We get ourselves into all kinds of trouble. Questions like did Adam have a bellybutton after being created?
Yes! Then fur say purpose?
No! Then where did we get the bellybutton from if not from our first parents😀
@@ferventheat It also says they have 'no rest'. Ceasing from pain is rest (as someone who has a chronic illness and has experienced severe pain for a very long time can attest).
Outside God presence are nothing, God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent, phsalm 139, is the only one inmortal 1 Timothy 6:16
@@diegoab297 If God is 'omnipresent' then how can anything be _outside_ of His presence? That literally doesn't make sense.
Thank you for this, as a disbeliever I dont mind spending some time in hell and cease to exist altogether.
It is not what most churches teach but the Bible teaches conditional immortality. In order to live forever one must have a supernatural experience called being "born again." Christianity is not about sorting out who will "go" to heaven and who will "go" to hell. It's about staffing and populating a future monarchy ("kingdom") which will administer an Earth that has been restored to Edenic beauty, peace, and harmony. If you have no interest in being a part of that then yes, you will cease to exist altogether. There is no "hell" in the Bible, no place of eternal conscious torment.
✴ _“And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth.”_ (Revelation 5: 10, NLT)
He did a great job. I had a journey of 3 years and I’m a believer in CI.
1 Timothy 4:10 - The New International Version (NIV)
10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
1 Cor 15:22
for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive
I'm always surprised when defenders of Annihilationism (I referrer to it as Conditional Immortality) don't cite what I think is the most compelling argument for it: the Atonement. If an eternity in hell is what sinners owe God for their sin, then why is Christ not suffering eternally in hell right now for the sins of his people? Instead, the Bible tell us he suffered death for us.
That is a brilliant question and observation. God bless you
That is one of many good arguments for Annihilation you make a great point there brother. The moment that Jesus breathed his last the temple curtain was torn into signifying that payment for sin had been made and that the way to God had been opened.
If God is just, how can he not have a penalty for sin? He creates the law, and all that break even just one law is condemned and deemed guilty of breaking all of it and so must be punished.
So, my hang up with annihilation is ,why would God who is Just, allow people to break his law and then not hold them accountable (assuming they do not believe in Jesus Christ) ? But instead, simply annihilates them. It doesn’t seem to match his character of being both loving and just.
@@brianfuller4739 Exactly the opposite, in what justice of righteousness do you have to pay infinite times more than you have wronged?
If God is just he cannot punish a mindless man billions and billions more times than he is guilty of. Because in rightness he eventually pays for his sins and ends up/must be put in heaven.
The fact that you find annihilation a lesser punishment than eternal torment is because you cannot conceive the idea of eternity yet.
I am sure that when we reach the day of judgement and we will see eternity and all its beauty.
The fact that you will be wiped out and no longer exist at all, everything you've ever felt the love of parents/children, the emotions of dating, the joy in accomplishing something...even the warmth of a ray of sunshine on your face...all of it you will never feel again, you won't be.
And in the light of divine beauty that is something even more beautiful than you've ever experienced... I tell you the pain that you will no longer be will be the weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Many... I'm sure many would wish to be gone to hell in torment... but not to be wiped out of existence... for man while there is life there is hope... and who knows maybe after 999999999 years of torment the Lord will relent and take them out? But they will exist... But annihilation, to have every glimmer of your existence erased... is hard to accept, and especially after seeing the beauty of heaven.
100% Mate!!! I couldn't find the right words to describe this very thought. Perfectly articulated. Thank you so much!!!
“But God would not take away a life; He would devise plans so that the one banished from Him does not remain banished.” 2 Sam. 14:14
Absolutely annihilation. One of the very few preachers who doesn't just buy the standard eternal conscious torment nonsense and actually looked into the passages further than superficially. Like Isaiah 66 with the dead bodies. They are not being eternally tortured and they are not even conscious. Dead and being consumed.
So, how does the worm (that is supposedly eating the body) not die since eventually it’s going to run out of food?
@@brianfuller4739 if the worm is not eating the body what is the worm eating? I used to think that the worm was synonymous with the human soul but if you look at the Hebrew word there and that passage is nothing to do with the human soul it's a worm or a maggot. You may just have a case for eternal worms. But it may be that the worm just does not die until the body is consumed.
Yeah i would tend to agree that it’s probably not a human soul - I’m not a hebrew scholar so i have to rely on lexicons, which say it’s a worm or grub. But it does say their, which to me implies ownership in the sense that it belongs to them and only them. If that’s the case, then we have an odd case of a worm that’s eternally devouring the body to which it belongs.
The soul that sinneth it shall die
1Cor 15:26 death is abolished in the end. Jesus will save ALL
@@jl7jl including fallen angels and the devil?
@@TampaBayMan5390 I believe that Satan will be in hell for ages upon ages.His age in hell will be the longest
@Jj Ll did you know there are scriptures that say he will be destroyed? Here is an example
“All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.” Ezekiel 28 19
The fire will burn them up just like fires we see on earth and the consequences will be eternal.
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4 1
God doesn't want evil to exist forever. Look at Nahum 1 verse 9. It says this "affliction" cause by sin will "not arise a second time". After this is all done God will have won fully
"I'm not trying to persuade either way, I'm just only going to show scripture for one view and say the other is mean" Yeah okay
He has forgiven your ‘terrible sins’ because the punishment due to you, and me, for that matter, was placed on Jesus. “He who knew no sin became sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.’ That is amazing grace!!!
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the GOSPEL by which we are SAVED, JESUS CHRIST DIED for our SINS was BURIED and ROSE again on the third day!Grace through FAITH.
There is a third view not mentioned at all. Universal Salvation for all after the purifying fires. Fire is corrective not torturing nor annihilating but restorative. God's love is a refiners fire. We are told to love our enemies thereby heaping burning coals on their heads, not to kill them, nor to torment them endlessly but that they would be confronted about their false egoistic self in order to win them over. That's the reason God loves His "enemues" and calls us as His followers to the same standard. Strange that this hasn't been mentioned at all, as very many Patristic Fathers held this view in the first 450 or so, years.
Your theory then allows Hitler, Stalin and Mao to not only get away Scot free with murdering millions but they also get heaven as a reward for their misdeeds. Not very just...
@@ronaldvilliers8954
So you would torture Stalin for 1000000 trillions years? That would be just?
What about the American citizens that voted for Bush, who is responsible for the war in Iraq, where 1 million people died??
Should every American that voted for Bush and didn't do anything about that war criminal, should they be tortured in Hell?
@@ronaldvilliers8954 in that case, we all should be punish without mercy, because Im willing to admit that I'm a sinner who needs help.
@@dannymoise2308 yes and there's only one way to avoid the punishment that we've all earned
Anyone know the difference between eternal and Eonian?
Yes preach it!
Wym?
The consequences of the fire is eternal. Jesus isn't burning for our sins
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' 45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:41-46, ESV)
i give u straight up answear, is soul eternal ? find word "nefesz" in old testament, and what God said to Adam, what happen if he would eate the fruit
The immortal soul concept comes from Greek philosophy has found nowhere in scripture where humans are called mortal over and over again god alone is inherently immortal
How is eternal conscience torment fair and how does that make God just?
It’s shocking how many people believes a place of eternal torment when Jesus never once mentioned it
*"How is eternal conscience torment fair...."* It isn't fair. It fails the _let-the-punishment-fit-the-crime_ test. I suppose that is why the Bible nowhere threatens the lost with ECT.
It absolutely doesn't but the problem is most people assume that both are true God is just and ECT is true and they try to fit them together which cannot be done. I've heard the best Bible teachers from calvinist arminian or even molinist perspectives try to make that connection fit and they can't do it. I am talking about RC sproul John Macarthur Chuck Missler Frank Turek William Lane Craig. All highly respected and qualified Bible teachers who cannot make ECT just punishment nor can they justify properly from scripture the arguments are terrible which tells me it's a terrible view
Make sure to let the sinners know, i’m sure they will love to hear that they will no longer be tormented for eternity but will just be destroyed. I can think of some nihilistic people, some depressed people, some alcoholics, some drug addicts, etc who would love to hear this clarification. Let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die
@@Thereal_Pranabindu *"... they will no longer be tormented for eternity...."* They never were going to be tortured for eternity. That was never God's plan. That's why it is nowhere taught in the Bible.
especially when Christ says to love your enemies
Amen
Glad to see a mainstream Omaha church finally teaching some truth on this. It just seems so clear that we ultimately perish. The idea of an immortal soul was never introduced till church adopted some Hellenistic ideas.
For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildwoers will be stubble. Thhe day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.”
Malachi 4:1 ESV
“And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the Lord of hosts.”
Malachi 4:3 ESV
“but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:27 ESV
“if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;”
2 Peter 2:6 ESV
“But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”
2 Peter 3:7 ESV
“Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the Lord. In the fire of his jealousy, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full and sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.”
Zephaniah 1:18 ESV
“But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish-like smoke they vanish away.”
Psalm 37:20 ESV
“They are dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.”
Isaiah 26:14 ESV
Sodom and gamorah examples in Jude:6 of suffering results of "eternal fire". Eternal punishment in Mt 25:46 is kolasin meaning to cut off, not to torment.(Greek term basanizo).
Matthew 25:45,46
Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
This is old testament as Jesus was born under the law to fulfil it on the Jewish people's behalf. The cross of Jesus has made everything new and fresh. Everything means nothing excluded.
Where is the good news of Jesus Christ in what you believe.. and where His grace 🤔
No human being will ever be cut off from the Father who GAVE His only beloved Son!
Luke 15
Annihilation
The consequence to Adam’s sin would be death. Dying you will die. Not suffering forever you will suffer. He may have reconsidered letting his wife. ( whom he loved immensely ) to suffer alone
Revelation 14 is pretty clear on the torment and punishment:
9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Isaiah 45:22-23 Turn to Me and be saved, All Ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked. Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear allegiance to Me.
God will save everyone
““Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.””
Matthew 25:44-46
If eternal, conscious torment exists, then the wicked have eternal life too. But the Bible says that eternal life is a gift God bestows only on those who believe in Christ.
@@marylamb6063 yes eternal punishment exists.
@@marylamb6063 ““But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish.
And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’ “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’ “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’
“The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’ “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’””
Luke 16:25-31
@@marylamb6063 “Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:10, 12-15
@@neofooI do not have a firm belief either way, but many have pointed out that the wording is “eternal punishment” not “eternal punishing”. Death is a punishment, and it last forever. And that would make sense as a parallel to “eternal life”. Just food for thought
This is without even addressing the "root cause" of belief in ECT, which is the unbiblical doctrine that the human soul is "immortal."
Malachi 4:1 tells us what will happen to the unbeliever. AND I QUOTE - "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." If you believe that that unsaved live somewhere forever - you must believe that our souls are immortal. BUT THEY ARE NOT IMMORTAL. And only the souls of the saved ever become immortal.
Well said, Craig. Thank you for doing so. It is a message the church desperately needs to hear.
I believe in universal reconciliation
Except the word translated as torment in Revelation "...smoke of their torment rises forever..." is a Greek word that literally means torture, it does NOT mean annihilation.
You realize that Revelation was most likely written at the earliest in the late 2nd century? It was the last book put into canon, even then it was contested, and it is possible it was written by a Gnostic.
@@Mike-qt7jpdefine forever - is that earth minutes, will a Bulova keep ticking in hell forever? Or it that photon minutes where time passes in an instant. Or maybe black hole minutes where clocks just stop. Or is that in a new heavens and a new earth where time has no meaning. You should start reading some modern day cosmology where even the notion of time isn’t understood.
When the smoke rises does that mean hell has an atmosphere? What exactly is it that burns? Human bodies? Does their flesh oxidize with oxygen and if so then do their bodies reconstitute and regenerate in order to provide the fuel for the fire? Or do they just suffer burns while there is an external fire? It never ceases to amaze me that Christians speak of an infinite God who is somehow constrained by earthly conventions and limited human imagery.
Such deception! Matt 25:46 makes the CLEAR contrast of both worlds being forever without end; If eternal agony isn’t real then eternal life isn’t either. That’s the WHOLE POINT It’s called Hell for a reason people, it’s forever. Most fail to understand that Hell was originally created for Satan and his rebellious angels not people whole reason Christ died for his fallen creation to give us an “fire exit” freely by his grace. It’s our choice where we want to live for eternity. Where do you think the saying “misery loves company” comes from. Satan wants to take as many people with him to the lake of everlasting torture IT’S SATAN that led those people there NOT GOD. Don’t be deceived people and point he finger at God saying that he is unjust l, who are we as clay to tell Almighty God what is just and what isn’t?
Preachers misrepresent Matthew 25: 46 all the time Nick. The "eternal punishment" referred to there is not eternal conscious torment. Paul explained to the Thessalonians what that punishment is. 🔥 [the lost] _…will be punished with _*_everlasting destruction…._* (2 Thessalonians 1: 9; NIV)
@@IsaacNussbaum Who tickled your ears (2Tim 4:3-4)?…. Hitler, Stalin, atheists and even Satan himself would love to go “black out” and “cease to exist” but Scripture is clear Hell is an eternal place which is prepared for Satan and his angels, mankind out of pride volunteers to join them… “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into 👉everlasting fire👈, 👉prepared for the devil and his angels👈:” (Matt 25:41)… “where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:44)… “There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.” (Luke 13:28).
@@nickbick316 I quoted the Bible, Nick. If you want to pretend that Paul's words to the Thessalonians are not in the Bible, that is between you and your maker. That's above my pay grade.
(BTW, everlasting fire, worms not dying, fire not being quenched, gnashing of teeth, and being thrust out of the kingdom don't have anything to do with hell or eternal conscious torment. How do I know? The Bible explains all those things in other passages.)
@@IsaacNussbaum Haha bud I’ll GLADLY quote the Bible with PROOF!… “And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; 👉FOR I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME.👈
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but 👉now he is comforted, and thou art TORMENTED👈. (Luke 16:24,25)
@@nickbick316 And I will GLADLY address any Scriptures you want to throw at me, just as long as we do it one Scripture at a time. The Luke account does not address the questions of hell or eternal conscious torment for a number of reasons. A) Hades is not hell. B) the story is not set in eternity. The rich man's eternal destiny will not be established until he faces judgement. C) Jesus did not believe that dead people were conscious. He told His disciples that dead people are "asleep." (John 11: 11-14).
_“Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”_
_His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep._
_So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,"_ (John 11: 11-14; NIV)
Jesus said "Lazarus is dead." And, Lazarus didn't go anywhere. He remained in the tomb--until Jesus resurrected him.
Only BEGOTTEN Son............not one and only Son.
Eternal fire could mean that the fire doesn’t go out it is continual, not necessarily that the person would be there continually. After all we do here they are burned up.
Rev 2: 11 Now, listen up with your inner ears. Hear with understanding what the Spirit is saying to the ekklesia: the individual who 1continues to see their triumph mirrored in mine [their co-seatedness with me in the throne room], is 2most certainly not threatened by any 3contradiction to their true likeness; there is nothing to fear 4in the second death. (The word 1nikoon, is the Present Active Participle Nominative, form of the verb nikao, to emphasize a continual or habitual victory. Then the double negative, οὐ μὴ ἀδικηθη 2ou mey, plus the verb, 3adikeō, meaning unrighteous; out of sync with likeness - with a, negative and dikeo, two parties sharing likeness - adikeythey is the Aorist Subjunctive form, meaning a definite outcome that will happen as a result of another stated action. The Preposition, ἐκ [4ek, mostly pointing to source, but here used for the agent or instrument] τοῦ θανάτου τοῦ δευτέρου the second death.
So, in context of the previous verse [Rev 2:10], "You have no need to fear anything you might suffer at any time", the Second Death is not to distract from the once and for all death that Jesus died, but to endorse it. In the lake of fire, Death and Hades are eradicated from memory. The first death is the once and for all death that Jesus died, representing the global death of humankind. Jesus' death took mankind's death in Adam, out of the equation. The idea of the Second Death has to do with the fact that the revelation of the full extent of everyone’s inclusion in the death of Jesus, has not yet dawned on some - so it will take a crisis, even their own death, to immediately engage them with the symbolic cleansing [from their doubts, ignorance and unbelief] represented by the lake of burning sulphur, purifying like in a furnace, separating the gold from the dross-mindsets. This is the ultimate awakening to the success of the cross - the realizing that even Death and Hades itself died in Jesus' death. It is indeed the death of Death. Rev 20:14. See my notes on The Lake of Fire and the Second Death at the end of Rev 19.
But here, specifically in Smyrna's case, the intensity of their persecution is neutralized by their realizing that gold is never threatened by fire.
Remember the One talking is he who said, I am the Living One; I died and now, see, here I am alive unto the ages of the ages and I have the keys wherewith I have disengaged the gates of Hades and death. Rev 1:18. Also Heb 9:25-28.
He thus broke the spell of the supposed claim of judgment and death over the Adamic race. The significance of the implications of Jesus’ death cannot be exaggerated. It reaches into the entire past, present and future of human history.
As representative of the human race, Jesus Christ fulfilled mankind’s destiny with death and judgment. [1 Cor 15:3-5, Rom 4:25, Acts 17:30, 31.] Note: Jesus did not come to condemn the world. The Father judges no one for he has handed over all judgment to the Son, who judged the world in righteousness.)
The Mirror Study Bible (app.mirrorword.net)
The first school of Christian theology was in Alexandria where they were avowed Christian Universalists. Considering they could read and write Koine Greek as their native language, why do you think they came to the conclusion of ultimate reconciliation instead of annihilation?
It can also mean that the fire goes out after fulfilling its purpose with eternal consequences. Sodom and Gomorra are no longer burning, but Jude says that they suffer the consequences of eternal fire.
@@TonysRagequit
Those who lived before the cross of Jesus..
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1Pe 4:6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
.
@@eekay5710 The flesh is used for our sinful nature. Our sinful nature has to be put to death, so that we can live a spiritual life. It has nothing to do with us going to God right after we die.
Just think for a moment: What sense would it make for those, who died under the old covenent to have to wait for the resurrection and those under the new covenent to go right to God? Why should there be a difference?
Also, Revelation 20 says that those, who were killed for the testimony of Christ's sake were resurrected in the 1st resurrection.
This idea, that we go right to heaven, hell or purgatory comes from Satan himself. By convincing us of that, we don't believe that the dead are actually dead. Then we start praying to the saints or talking to dead relatives. And people, who sad that they saw their dead loved ones and talked to them, aren't hallucinating. In most of the cases, a demon imitates their dead relative and talks to them, and then drives them further away from God. That's why communicating with the dead was punishable by death in the law, that was given to Moses.
If the wges of sin is eternal torment, then Christ did not pay for our sins on the cross because he would have to be eternally tormented to do so.
Jeez I have never even thought about that good point
I agree..
With anialationism, Jesus saved from less physical suffering, so it seems to reduce the work of Jesus. But it is more consistent with the harvest. The wheat will be harvested and the chaff will be thrown into the fire and burned. God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, would he enjoy the eternal suffering of the wicked?
Wats interesting is with cross referencing u can find in Jude Sodom and Gomorrah is actually considered to be burned down in eternal fire. So eternal fire must be understood as fire that consumes. Which kind of removes one from the other list. The others can be also understood in the other way. Annihilation would be a destruction that is eternal and a punishment that never expires.
Isaiah 34:9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day;
its smoke will rise forever."
Edom was destroyed by the Babylonians. It never smoked, and it was never pulverized with sulfur. The smoke of its torment is not rising forever. In fact, the land of Edom is part of Kingdom of Jordan and it is alive and well. God is speaking of total extermination of the city by the Babylonians. In the same way, the same language is used throughout the Bible for complete annihilation.
Yes!
Thank you for this. My heart grieves for the thought of eternal torment to my Japanese family who were Buddhist. My grandparents recently passed, within a year of each other, and were great grandparent and parents. I trust in the Lord, and stay positive, even my twin, my best friend my whole life, her views are different and she is a lesbian, but has the biggest heart. I go into a depression trying to understand Hell. If you have it in your hearts, I ask that you please se pray for me and my family. Thank you.
@@ImAmerasian Your loved ones who have died aren't in eternal torment. Your living loved ones who are not converted are not going to burn ---- in hell. Within most cases hell simply means the grave not a place of burning, fiery torment. Hades and sheol also mean the common grave. Your ---- loved ones who have died are sleeping in the grave not screaming within undescribable torment. They ---- are at peace to you will see them again within the resurrection. This to as being the message of hope which I give to you ---- so don't live in fear that (your) unconverted friends to loved ones are totally lost. They are not, to have a wonderful future ahead of them. Be at peace and know that (your deceased) loved ones are within peace in the sleep of death. You will see them again within some future resurrection.
If you have any further questions, write back. I could show you ---- the plan of God. To the hope for the dead.
And the hope for the dead. Please cast away the lie of some ever burning hell fire and the immortality of the soul.
Oh thank you for your response. It makes me feel better. I feel like the terms in the Bible are figurative speaking and it’s been translated to be taken literally. Like how Earth was created. He made the world in six days and rested on the seventh. I understand it that it was Gods time, which time itself doesn’t exist in the spiritual realm, so He was basically taking six steps or separate processes to create Earth, so a million if not billions of years for “Earths” years is only one day of Gods time. Hope I explained that right.
I believe that God is like a parent to all of us. To help us become better. We are sinners and it’s hard no matter what you do to stay sin free. Like no sin outweighs another, sin is sin. Lying is no different than murdering someone. So white lies I say as to not hurt someone feelings is just like murdering someone. Since we are created in His image, we learned unconditional love from Him. No matter what we do wrong, our parents loves us and want the best for us. No parent would condemn their child to Hell because love is bigger than that. So it’s hard for me to believe that God would.
I really appreciate what you wrote and my anxiety give me panic attacks thinking about this stuff (amoung other stuff too) and all I can do is pray about it.
Or the Refiner's crucible...
The Lake of Fire is the refiners crucible. It is Gehenna, or what Judaism calls Gehinnom. In Gehinnom, no soul is ever lost to God. It is a state of correction, just like the refiners crucible. I wish ultimate reconciliation was presented in this video, but I digress.
@@johndalton1043amen brother, Happy presidents day, 1 Timothy 2
Do you have any evidence for your claim of hell.
Choose to believe God's Word.
41Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life (Matthew 25:41-46).
8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than [f]to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. Matthew 18:8
Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:45,46
This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. II Thessalonians 1:5-10
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. Jude 7
If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
Revelation 14:9-11
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [a]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10 and in verses 14 & 15
"Infinite punishment" is an oxymoron. Punishment implies learning from punishment and being corrected by it. Punishment that goes on forever is just lustful torture.
So God's Word is false right! You make no sense at all.
@mike no your understand of Gods word is wrong. Or can you NEVER be wrong? Pride is dangerous.
@@miketrybanwalkingstickleatherwYour favorite Bible translation isn't God's word.
Wrong it is forever read Revelation 20:10 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
And Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell,
And all the nations that forget God.
Where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched so it is forever sorry to burst your bubble.
@@miketrybanwalkingstickleatherw you should at least watch the video before making comments that completely ignore the point(s) I made. Try again, with a thoughtful response and rebuttal. ✌️
I think the people who commit the worst sins will get worst torture than the ones who commit the smaller sins but in the end, every single person that goes to Hell will go through the torture and not feel loved. All sinners I would think 🤔 would feel not only the pain that is inflicted on them will also go through abuse through mental, emotional, and physical, and feel severe lonesomeness that will make any emotions that you have ever felt when you were on earth a picnic to go through.
Have you ever heard of Chinese water torture? It is a torture that is really small and actually would not even feel like torture at least in the short term. However, what makes it bad is the continuance of that torture. That torture is just dripping water on the head. After a long while this torture causes mental deterioration in the subject. So, take the smallest torture you can think of and extend that torture constantly for a day, then many days, than a week, then many weeks, then a month, then many months, then a year then many years, then a decade then many decades, then a millennium, then many millennia. So, what I am saying is the continuance of torture is worse than the torture itself. But yet you are saying this continuance is the same for all the lost. Your existence is wholly about existing for being tormented forever, The only reason no matter what level of sinner you were to not as bad to bad as Hitler is to be tormented. It is your only reason for existence. You will do nothing, accomplish nothing. You exist to be forever tormented. I should say you do only one thing. You receive torments. That is your meaning in the afterlife. You would receive a fate worse than Jesus on the Cross because at least he knew that his pain and suffering would end when his physical body died.
False. Wrong.
False
"I think" is not a fact.
@@johnramirez3247 There is no ever burning hell fire.
I’ll pose a question for the debate: do those in Hell STOP sinning?
Adolf Hitler was just sentenced to Hell. In the blink of an eye, he is surrounded and engulfed in flame. During the payment for his sins on earth, does he stop sinning? Does he sit there, praising God for His justice and singing hymns?
We think of Hell as an eternal punishment for finite crimes committed against God. When really those in Hell will still be cursing God, rejecting His Son, and worshipping themselves.
*"We think of Hell as an eternal punishment"* Many (not all) people do think that way, B. V. Many (but not all) preachers preach that. But that is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible says over and over and over again that the lost will cease to exist. For example: ✴ _For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish_ *[ be utterly destroyed ]* _but have everlasting life._ (John 3: 16, KJV)
Depends on how you view such a place. Many Christians think that people are just gonna scream and just go insane from the pain, how are they gonna sin in that situation? Regardless if they are being tortured then is it really so odd that they would be screaming insults at the one that supposedly put them there? It just seems to come from a place of no understanding or empathy to tally up more crimes from those who are in intense pain. Most people are probably not going to start praising God down there man, at least not till their minds break, it's kinda a silly notion don't you think and really just seems to be something that is made to justify this belief in the minds of those who find it contradictory for a loving God to do such a thing.
@@Necroman98 I'm curious, Necroman. Those in the _sinners-gonna-scream-and-just-go-insane-from-the-pain_ crowd appear to believe one half of John 3:16 but not the other half. I'm not sure I understand why. Do you have any idea why that is?
As you read through the comments, remember to first rejoice that your name is written in the Lamb's book of life and that hell, in whatever form it takes, does not apply to you.
The devil also taught that we don't die.... I would say it is the first lie in the bible
Genesis 3:4
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.”
That's twisted logic. Surely, you see the error..
Re Tampa..
The devil can teach no truth, as there is no truth in him. He is the father of all lies.
Jesus has dealt with him at the cross.
Col 2:15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
@@eekay5710 amen
Always thought hell was forever and that was really sad to think of people forever suffering. But have never studied about it and proven it with the word of God
Philippians 2:12-13 AMP
So then, my dear ones, just as you have always obeyed [my instructions with enthusiasm], not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation [that is, cultivate it, bring it to full effect, actively pursue spiritual maturity] with awe-inspired fear and trembling [using serious caution and critical self-evaluation to avoid anything that might offend God or discredit the name of Christ]. For it is [not your strength, but it is] God who is effectively at work in you, both to will and to work [that is, strengthening, energizing, and creating in you the longing and the ability to fulfill your purpose] for His good pleasure.
Salvation is Forever a beautiful amazing gift from God. I'll keep studying the word of God
In The Book of Revelation it says that death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
Looks like the lake of fire will be the end of the road for everything that God wants to get rid of.
@@katanatac Although Revelation is the last book in the Bible, it is not the last message, as 99% of Revelation alreády took place ánd was written for the people of Israel only (never to the gentiles).
The tribulation, the wedding and áll of the prophecies, the law & the Psalms were applicable to the people of Israel only. Théy were invited to the wedding, but never showed up..
The biggest revelation of all times were given to Paul.. Christ within.
Col 1:26,27 'the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in (ín!) you, the hope of glory!
We were made óne with Him at the cross. We now are His holy temple, His sanctuary, His dwelling.. and from out thís holy temple He will soon manifest His final appearances as 1Thes 4 have it!
@@katanatac
The lake of fire. Rev 20:14
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (The Second Death is not to distract from the 'once and for all death' that Jesus died, but to endorse it. In the lake of fire, Death and Hades are eradicated from memory. The first death is the 'once and for all death' that Jesus died, representing the global death of humankind. Jesus' death took mankind's death in Adam out of the equation. [Heb 9:27,28; 2Cor 5:14-17].
The idea of the Second Death has to do with the fact that the revelation of everyone’s inclusion in the death of Jesus, has not yet dawned on some - so it will take a crisis, often, their own death, to immediately engage them with the symbolic cleansing [from their unbelief] represented by the lake of burning sulphur, purifying like in a furnace, separating the gold from the dross-mindsets. Rev 2:11 + Rev 20:6
The Mirror Study Bible.
@@katanatac Look at the cross of Jesus to see how God came "to the end of the row for everything that He wanted to get rid of". IT IS FINISHED!
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Father has reconciled the WORLD with Himself and is since then in His eternal rest. His desire is that we enter His rest as well and this we can only do once we come to the knowledge of the truth of the cross.
Hell is not ----- for forever.
The Bible says clearly the soul that sins shall die. So the question is who or what group came up with this claim? I have my opinion but will keep it to myself.
True
There's a third option. PURIFICATION. Fire is often used as a symbol of purification in the bible.
The words 'olam' (hebrew) and 'aion' (greek) are both indeterminate periods of time. NOT "eternity". That's a latin mistranslation that found it's way into the KJV, which in turn found it's way into every single translation ever (except for the YLT - Youngs Literal Translation, which is a clumsy read, but far more accurate)
But this is not biblical. The lake of fire is the second death, the eternal fire. Now eternal fire doesn't neccessarily mean eternal torment, because the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorra is called eternal, but there's no coming back from it. The idea that all souls will be saved is a new form of the oldest lie man (or rather woman) has ever heard: You will surely not die.
This idea also heavily contradicts one of the most famous verses of the Bible: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Hell is real, and that's the sad truth. But the truth might not be quite as sad as many think, because - in my opinion - annihilation is more likely than eternal torment.
@@TonysRagequit EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess, just contradicted your entire comment with one verse
@@daMillenialTrucker There are two ways, in which I don't contradict myself.
1. If all the wicked are destroyed, and only the righteous ones are left, then every knee shall bow, because the knees of the wicked don't exist anymore.
2. It is possible, that the wicked will hear God's judgement, accept, that it's true, but nonetheless make one final attempt to attack the heavenly Jerusalem, and when they do that, hellfire will consume them. Gog and Magog are not some literal countries in Revelation, they refer to all the wicked, who are part of the 2nd resurrection.
Revelation also explicitly mentions a list of people, who will not enter the kingdom of heaven, but be thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
If you read the Gospels, Jesus says over and over again, that the wicked will be burnt by fire and that their punishment will be eternal. It doesn't mean, that they're eternally tormented, but that they will die and be dead forever.
You can't just take one verse, which you like, interpret it, how you want, and throw the rest of scripture out the window.
@@TonysRagequitBut Phillipians 2:10 says even those UNDER THE EARTH will confess that Jesus is Lord and confessing means "to admit or state that one has committed a crime or is at fault in some way".
So those UNDER THE EARTH aka HELL will EVENTUALLY confess Jesus is Lord. Romans 10:9 says that if we CONFESS with our mouth that JESUS IS LORD, we will be saved.
This mirrors what the prophet Isaiah says in Isaiah 45:23 "To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear (stronger than confess) allegiance.’"
Here is a verse that ties it altogether in 1 Corinthians 12:31 "Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “JESUS IS LORD" except IN HOLY SPIRIT."
What I gather from this... is that THOSE UNDER THE EARTH (in Hell) will EVEVNTUALLY CONFESS Jesus is Lord by having the Holy Spirit (because you can ONLY confess Jesus is Lord).
Looking at all these together, you can see how Universal Reconciliation CAN BE PLAUSIBLE due to the support from Scripture.
Do you get a different interpretation when you combine these verses ? LET ME KNOW !!!
@@stevenaguilera9202 For us, currently, it is only possible to confess Christ through the Holy Spirit. But when the truth hits the unsaved hard and they stand before him, they will no longer be able to deny him. They will confess, but then they will launch an attack on the heavenly Jerusalem and hellfire will destroy them.
What about Universal Reconciliation? This view makes the most sense in my opinion.
Gee, I don't know about Universal Reconciliation, Jason. As far as I can tell, none of the following fit that doctrine.
● The unsaved will die (Romans 8: 13).
● They will perish ("apollumi" - be utterly destroyed; consumed) (John 3: 16).
● They will vanish (Psalms 37: 20).
● They will be no more (Psalms 104: 36).
● They will be destroyed (Matthew 10: 28).
● They will burn completely up (Luke 3: 17).
● They will be consumed (Hebrews 10: 26-27).
● They will be reduced to ashes (2 Peter 2: 6).
● They will be like smoke that vanishes (Psalms 68: 2).
● They will be like water that flows away (Psalms 58: 7).
Yes, hyperbole. The Bible is filled with it, but that doesn't change the fact that death = non existence, a non existence that will be rectified. "The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Cor. 15:26) CLNT
There is no "unsaved". "Who will all men to be saved and come into a realization of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). Christ Jesus is the savior of the world - 1 John 4:14 (cosmos/mankind/everyone). "For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified." (1 Cor. 15:22) So as you can see clearly in the Scriptures, death, all death is temporal and not unending. If there will be no resurrection of the dead then Christ was never resurrected in the first place, but as we know, he was. Neither endless conscious suffering or conditional immortality line up with Scripture or the loving and overall character of God.@@IsaacNussbaum
@@jasonegeland1446 Do either of the following speak to the current question, Jason?
✴ _For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish...._ (John 3: 16, BLB) ["apollumi" - to destroy, destroy utterly]
✴ _13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few._ (Matthew 7: 13-14, ESV)
I get what you're asking and I'll try to answer you honestly. FIrst off, "perish" in John 3:16 means TO DIE. This is what happens to everyone because of Adam.
Yes, death is a form of destruction. As I said previously, we inherit death due to Adam, and we also inherit life due to Christ, hence the two corresponding "all" mentions in 1 Cor. 15:22. Read it again if you need to.
Secondly, Matthew 7:13-14 is contrasting life with death in an eonian sense, an age, or an era if you will. This is not saying that there is endless punishment after death as you may have been raised to believe. God declares all from beginning to the end. Free will is a BIG FAT LIE.
"Now this is the will of Him Who sends Me, that all which He has given to Me, of it I should be losing nothing, but I shall be raising it in the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who is beholding the Son and believing in Him may have life eonian, and I shall be raising him in the last day." (John 6:39-40)
"that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean, and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father. (Phil. 2:10-11)
And again, "acclaiming" (praising enthusiastically) in this next verse:
"for it is written: Living am I, the Lord is saying, For to Me shall bow every knee, And every tongue shall be acclaiming (confessing/praising joyfully in the Greek - exomologeō) God!" (Rom. 14:11)
And yet again from the Old Testament and still the same sentiment (not a forced submission, but everyone freely choosing):
"By Myself have I sworn; From my mouth has gone Forth righteousness, A word, and it shall not turn back; For to Me shall bow every knee, And every tongue shall swear fealty." (Isaiah 45:23) Concordance Version of the Old Testament@@IsaacNussbaum
@@jasonegeland1446Thank you Jason! It’s so good to see you defending God’s nature instead of slandering Him like hell and annihilation defenders do. The concept of eternal conscious torment or at best annihilation was forced on me for 33 years in various churches until God lead me to His truth that His actual plan for humanity would end in God being “all in all”, abolishing death and reconciling EVERYTHING on earth and EVERYTHING in heaven to Himself, having made peace through the blood of Christ, as Colossians 1:20 plainly states.
It’s really unbelievable and unthinkable that Christians present a god to the world who brings billions of people into existence knowing beforehand that they would be rebellious and end up suffering forever. No wonder normal, thoughtful people are repulsed by this hideous caricature of God, planning THE most vicious destiny imaginable for HIS creatures, because he lost control of them and just couldn’t get them to get with his program, as well as turning Christ into a pathetic, impotent saviour who can only stand helplessly by while the vast majority of those he came to save damn themselves to the worst destiny possible. Some saviour. Their god is a psychotic idiot who didn’t count the cost of his “grand experiment.”
However it seems that this massive deception of the Christian world is all part of God’s plan to show us who He is and who we are in our sinful, self righteous state.
To be honest you have to look at the etymology and where the word comes from and what it meant then, apparently the Greek word for "eternity" is "aion" which is not the same as eternity as we think of it today, that's why they use the plural "aions" either way we look at you don't wanna go because whatever it is it's gonna be painful both internally and externally.
In the OT you can read over and over again how very sad God was that some of his people sacrifice their children in fire to some gods.
They threw the babies in the mouth of this god in the fire while they play drums so the children’s scream wouldn’t be heard.
So how could God himself ….
No ever burning hell fire. No immortal soul.
@max marrero The soul is not immortal, hell (is mostly) the grave and the devil exists as a real person.
Go to hell!
I think the book of Enoch could shed some light on this. Enoch said that when we die our souls are are put into 1 of 4 waiting places until the day of judgement. Those whom chose Christ rest until judgment day and those whom rejected Christ do not rest. In the case of Lazarus and the rich man, it seemed the rich man was in this waiting place and knew his fate come judgement day( probably due to the souls he seen around him.) When i think of knashing of teeth i think of the anxiety of knowing something bad is coming not what is already happening. Enoch also explained that the fallen angels were judged the moment they sinned against God because God gave them an imortal life and couldn't die. In the Bible it says that the LAKE OF FIRE was created for the devil and his angels. For them, (the devil and his angels) this will be an eternal death and torment because they cannot die, but for man this will be the second death( the death of the soul). That's what I get from it anyway.
None of these two. The concept of Hell as in regards to how many look at it today actually evolved outside the Bible, due to the Syrien wars, where the Jews were so opressedf by other nations, that they started to seek a way of justice in the afterlife. But also does the concept evolve outside the Bible since the Book of Enoch, and only later was adopted by Christians... "Hell" is actually not mentioned once in the Biblle, but always referes to something different, just as words like "eternal" and "everlasting", depending on its context, do not refer to never ending.. Its worth a lot to dive into how things were meant back in the day they were written.
then there is a big problem how do you do away with death if there are still dead people?
How do you do away with evil if there are still evil people?
Apokostasis is an interesting doctrine. It makes sense given the character of God and why Jesus hasn't come back yet (He's attempting to redeem those in Hell).
No one is burning in hell
Jesus alreády has come back and is ríght inside of us, waiting for the world to awake and become aware of His indwelling presence! This happened with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as Acts 2 have it.
We are His holy temple, His sanctuary, His dwelling place.. and from out thís holy temple He will soon manifest His final appearances as 1Thes 4 have it.
@@eekay5710 New Age is Heresy.
'He's attempting' to redeem those in hell (not Hell) 🤔
Where in the NT, starting with Acts 2, do you read this ??
1Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1Peter 4:6
For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
The Father has reconciled the WORLD with Himself and is since then in His eternal rest. His desire is that we enter His rest as well and this we can only do once we come to the knowledge of the truth of the cross. Hebr 4
@@eekay5710 Peter, speaking to the assembled crowd in Acts 2 vs 29-34 saying that David is not ascended into the heavens. Verse ----- 34. David did not go to heaven. Christ saying that no man has ----- ascended into heaven. John 3/13. "And no man hath ascended up to heaven". (To including Elijah.)
The Bible does not teach ----- the immortality of the soul but it says that the soul is mortal ----- and can die. "The soul that sins, shall die". Ezekiel. (18, v 4 and v 20.)
Souls.....can die and are not ----- immortal. You are a soul you do not have a soul.
People don't go to heaven or hell at death but sleep within the grave ----- until the resurrection. Death to as being sleep to until ----- the resurrection.
Something.....to think about.
Additional ----- note: Hell mostly means the grave not some place of ever burning, fiery torment. Sheol to hades to also means the common grave. Nobody is suffering in the grave.
A lot of ppl in the comments are creating an idol of God, a God they want, not who He has told you about himself. They are making themselves God, making judgment calls as if they were God who is infinitely wise.
What about the hundreds of testimonies on TH-cam of near death experiences of people witnessing hell?
*"...near death experiences...."* So, I can believe NDEs or I can believe the Bible? Gee, I don't know which one to believe. Just kidding. I pick the Bible.
Thats an interesting point, but even more confusing is the vast quantity of testimonies that experience nothing like a hell, and seem to not have a distinct religious overtone at all...
God speaks to us in a variety of literal and figurative ways. He will never contradict himself
Hell fire is NOT eternal or everlasting, the punishment for sin is an eternal punishment meaning the fire God uses to destroy the wicked will consume them but stop once they turned to ashes.
Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
There is no burning fire at Sodom and Gomorrha today, these cities have suffered an ETERNAL PUNISHMENT i.e they have been destroyed/razed to the ground.
Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire FROM the LORD OUT OF HEAVEN
The consistent theme is God uses His Fire to destroy the wicked who will be burned up; TOTAL DESTRUCTION
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
The Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Every NDE experience confirms that it is eternal conscious punishment, torture actually, of demons ripping you apart, you regenerating (the spiritual body does not die or sleep or go unconscious) and having the experience over and over again….
Uh, no. That is not every NDE.
So demons get pleasure not pain which they suppose to they begged Jesus to go into the swine but if they torturing then they have gotten mercy and we suffer far more than them, they have pleasure and love because they feel no pain and are happy so how does it make sense
It bothers me that "Christians " teach that the lost will burn forever when the Word of God is very clear that they don't. I feel as if I can't trust a brother or a sister, even though I continue to love them, who ignores scripture in order to continue in their belief. Heres another false teaching, "once saved always saved." P.s the scripture is extremely clear on this as well.
It bothers me when Christians teach that as well but we need to remember this has been an entrenched view for 1600 years. Old traditions Die Hard many did at the reformation but some didn't
Newsflash: Once Saved Aways Saved is true..just like Once you HAVE Eternal life you will always have eternal life!
@@user-of1hd2dy1t you couldn’t be more incorrect
John 10:28
English Standard Version
"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."
If we could lose our salvation, we would because we are imperfect people.
Are you working towards salvation or re-salvation? Did YOU snatch YOURSELF from GOD'S hands? That would be ridiculous and bad theology. If we were capable of being unsaved all of us would be UNSAVED many times over because even with the Holy Spirit indwelling us, we still sin at times and fall short. Works righteousness is a way to hell IF you are relying on your filthy rags for SAVE YOU.
Regarding SALVATION:
Faith Alone in Christ Alone is what Saves ❤❤❤
Conditional Immortality 💙🙏
AKA cosmic abortion.
“And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day-”
Jude 1:6
Jude even calls the chains “eternal until…. “
Eternal fire is not a reference to duration but to its unstoppable nature. It can’t be a reference to time if eternal chains are removed at some point.
one question: if jesus suffered so that we dont have to, why isnt he burning forever? why did he only temporaraly suffer for billions of people who would have to suffer for all eternity? was his pain infinite? something isnt clicking here.
Hell. Eternal torment or annihilation? How’s about neither nor. Jesus has saved all. Glory to God. Hallelujah thank you Jesus.
Friend, where'd you get that from the bible? If you take out revelation 14:11 and revelation 20:10 in light of Matthew 13:41-42 which shows that the wicked will be burned in a literal fire then yes there's not many other scriptures outside of those that show everlasting conscious torment. Even we must consider whether Revelation 14:11, 20:10 is saying only Satan, the beast, false prophet, and those who took the mark of the beast will be tormented forever.
Perhaps the parable of the rich man and Lazarus might be something we should ponder because the rich man was in torment.
Jesus did say to pluck out your eyes and to cut off your hand and feet if they cause you to sin as it would be better to come into life maimed than to have your whole body casted into Gehenna.
We should only get our doctrine from the bible. And there's people who will not ever be saved they are in the fire or possibly cease to exist.
I don't know besides the verses in revelation if the wicked dead will be tormented forever or cease to exist but they will forever be away from God's presence and I don't want anyone to go to Gehenna especially with the possibility of eternal torment!
THANK YOU DADDY YAH!
Save it!
@@JustSaying1957
Love ya friend! 😁❤️
@@JESUSGreatrThan_all_LsThnJESUS yeah you love him so much your there to let him know just how cruel God is if you choose to disobey. God didn't write that book that book was written by man to control the masses what kinda Loving father would send there child to be tormented for ever ? One that loves us so much right ? why not just cease to exist? if God is all knowing he already knows everyones destination before he even created them he knows everyones Free Will choices before he created them question is do we really have free will if our lives are already predestined?
@@echohotel7975
Greetings friend! I hope all's well! Yes there's evidence for everlasting separation from God's presence and a literal fire in gehenna.
I was scared of going there now I'm not because I can't go to gehenna so i have to tell everybody about the good news because there are some who will repent. These are predestined to salvation but we all deserve Gehenna yet God does not wish anyone to perish.
I don't know what you're going through i can't be of much comfort to people as i haven't gone through much what I've gone through is light compared to what others have experienced. I've only experienced early signs of anger, wanting to see blood, and hearing a voice say God is not with me in my late teens all because i did bloody Mary when I was around 11 which it tried to possess me and make me insane when I did it (which was my fault), almost dying in my late teens, homelessness in my late teens for doing nothing wrong, constant bad dreams, and sleep paralysis since childhood and witchcraft used against me since childhood almost not making it in the womb.
I'm lucky nothing terrible happened to me as I know there are worst, disgusting and grotesque things going on in the world i want to help people come to Jesus because God will make a renewed world but we need Jesus to be there and to avoid Gehenna. I love everyone but, i didn't always do a good job of it before coming to Jesus at 17.
Again, i don't know what you're going through i am pleading with you to come to paradise and to help others this is what it is. I've read the The bible and it is a good book teaching us not to sin against God and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Did you read it for yourself? God does not wish you or anyone to perish!
If hell is a temporary punishment then why does it matter if I live for Christ. I don't want to live forever as long as I can live my own life now my way. It's only temporary.
There WILL be punishment for sins, and it WILL be terrible beyond your imagination, whether it is temporary or infinite. You are welcome to choose that path if your arrogance leads you that way. I promise you, the way of extremely temporary earthly pleasure does not compare to what is to come, no matter which path you choose
@@BradyR95 are you born again?
@@timothyholmes-jx2jj I am born again through Jesus Christ!
I'm saved also but if I wasn't and someone told me that when I die I would go to hell but it's only for awhile, why would I want to get saved?If heaven is eternal so is hell,your soul lives forever somewhere.
@@timothyholmes-jx2jj this is not a strong argument and is just speculation, but I will engage. If I told you I will give you 1 week where you can have unlimited money, earthly pleasure, etc to do whatever you want, but then for 50 years you must be tortured beyond imagination and then eliminated from existence, would you take it? Of course not. This is what you are claiming. You don’t actually believe you would choose that option. There is nothing to gain, everything to lose. Even living life on Earth “your way” brings no real long term satisfaction.
Very thought provoking.
Short answer to: Why would a loving God send anyone to an eternal hell?
We are born with both a God-given sense of morality but also with a seed of sin (selfishness) within our immortal souls passed down from our ancestors Adam and Eve. The sin seed is irremovable and its growth is irreversibly progressing towards Satanic levels of evil with enough eons of time. Physical death does not stop the progression in an immortal being.
Family and cultural influences may slow down, or speed up a person’s descent into depravity. But ultimately, our selfishness causes us to become insensitive to the hurt and harm we inflict on others as we pursue our deep personal pleasures.
Our selfishness blinds us to the truth that we all are becoming like Satan. And satanically evil beings must be eternally contained in eternal flames because they are immortal. The resulting eternal pain will rivet their focus and attention rendering them powerless to hurt others.
Heaven and hell are real just the way those places are described in the Bible. The reason these two places are what they are is because humans, made in the image of God, are either going to be consumed by the corruption of selfish sin into a satanically evil being; or they will accept the way out of the corruption by accepting Christ who freely gives salvation to those who want to be free from the corruption of sin.
Only the Creator has a solution to our selfish sinfulness: new sinless bodies for those who accept Him as Lord and turn away from their selfish sins that will turn them into an eventual Satan.
Romans 8:12-14 (NASB) So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh -- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
It doesn’t matter what level of sinfulness a person is at when they die; even a speck of sin keeps a person out of heaven and sends them to hell. This is because sin is not static. Sin corrupts progressively, irreversibly, absolutely and completely given enough time. Even a speck of sin is the seed of a future Satanic being within. So the “nice people” who die without Christ must go to the same hell as Hitler.
That is why God sees all nonbelievers as his enemies. No matter how kind and gentle a nonbeliever may seem to you at the moment, God sees the sin inside them growing. Colossians 1:21 (NLT) “This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.”
For this reason, God knows that their immortal soul is on track to being another satanic being in the future. And since their soul exists forever, if they do not obtain salvation through Jesus, they must be eternally separated from God and those who will be in heaven. But God loves his enemies and has made a way out of our hopeless situation through the person of Jesus Christ if we will accept him before we die.
You don't have an immortal soul. Immortality is found in Christ and given as a gift to the righteous. Also you don't have a 'seed of sin'. Humans choose evil as an act of the will.
Can you show me in scripture where God, Jesus, Paul or any of the other apostles say that I have an immortal soul? Leviticus says the soul (nephesh in Hebrew = creature) that sins dies. Ecclesiastes says that the dead know nothing.
The first lie told in the Bible was the serpent telling Eve that she wouldn't die and be like God.
Socrates, with his Greek mythology said that the soul is immortal.
@@Mrm1985100 Wrong. Jesus's body had to be conceived by the Holy Spirit so that he could be the only sinless human being to avoid the sin nature that all humanity has inherited from the past. He had to be completely sinless in order to qualify to be the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. That's why only Jesus could take away the sins of the world.
@@dalecampbell5617 We are made in the triune image of God with a body, soul and a spirit.
[1Thessalonians 5:23 NASB95] 23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The earthly body dies but the soul and spirit is eternal.
[2 Corinthians 5:1-10 NASB95] 1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For indeed in this [house] we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight-- 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
[Daniel 12:1-2 NASB95] 1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands [guard] over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace [and] everlasting contempt.
[1 Corinthians 15:52 NASB95] 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
@roberthill4581 thanks for your response.
Thessalonians 5:23 Now may God of peace himself sanctify you entirely and may your spirit (G4151 pneuma = movement of air, mental disposition) and soul (G5590 psyche= breath of life, vital force) and body...
1 Timothy 6:16 he ALONE is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light...
When you look at the story of creation, when God created man, he breathed in the breath of life (spirit) and man became a living soul (nephesh =creature). Notice that it says that man became a living soul. It doesn't say God gave him a soul.
And why would Paul say that we must put on immortality if we are already immortal?
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For men and animals both breathe the same air, and both die. So mankind has no real advantage over the beasts; what an absurdity! 20 All go to one place- the dust from which they came and to which they must return.
Solomon said that the dead know nothing.
In Genesis 1:27, yes God made man in his image, but nothing in that entire chapter or even chapter 2, mentions man being immortal or that man has an immortal soul.
The idea that God, being all powerful, all loving and all knowing, knowing the beginning to the end, is going to allow himself to lose most of mankind (e.c.t. or annihilation)to a spirit being that he created, is ridiculous. Or that Satan somehow has the power and ability to put a time limit on God's work, is ridiculous. As if God can't reach/offer his salvation from eternal death to the lost beyond the grave, because it's too late or Satan won't allow it, is ridiculous. E.c.t. and annihilation limits the work Christ did on the cross, and it makes Adam's actions more powerful than Jesus's actions.
All die because of Adam and all will be made alive because of Jesus. Why would God resurrect the lost, give them life, only to judge them with no chance of correction/repentance and purification and then annihilate them???
Absolutely! Well said.
@johndalton1043 thank you for your kind words. God bless.
@@dalecampbell5617 You're very welcome my friend. Most westernized views of Christianity are laid out in such a way that it makes God the biggest loser, and satan the greatest winner, in the history of winners and losers.
The God I worship will lose none to an adversary He created.
@johndalton1043 same here. Sadly, most Christians believe in a God that is going to lose most of mankind to either annihilation or e.c.t. They are blinded and don't realize that the doctrine they believe/preach, is causing a falling away effect.
@@dalecampbell5617 Absolutely! It caused a falling away effect for me as well.
The epiphone came at church one Sunday when the preacher quoted John the Baptist and said, behold the Lamb of God who comes to take away the sins of the world. Then the preacher went on to add contingencies. But I was like...wait a second...in context there is no addendum to limit the scope of "the world". That moment started a chain reaction that ultimately led to a change in the way I view God, as well as mankind.
I find that most Christian Universalists started out in a different denomination and then converted to CU. Was this your experience as well?
9:58 is the clincher for me.
He's right that Jesus is quoting from Isaiah. However, I do not believe Isaiah is about eschatology. He is referring to the Valley of Hinnom. This is what Judaism would later define as Gehinnom.
It describes an event where God poured out His correction for child sacrifice and allowed His chosen people to be conquered. The corpses were not buried. They lay in the open for all to watch them decompose and burn. The fire is not burning forever. It is unquenchable in that it will burn until there is nothing left. The worm doesn't eat a body for eternity. The worm will eat until there is nothing left to consume. The bodies serve as a warning. Isaiah is describing the results after a battle, not the results of an afterlife.
Gehinnom serves as a reminder of God's correction. Jesus used the term Gehenna. In most fractions of Judaism, Gehinnom came to be viewed as a place of correction in eschatology where no soul is ever lost to God.
Think of it this way...Jews are Gods chosen people. They do not cease to be God's chosen people just because of the Valley of Hinnom. God corrects His people many times, but they never cease to be His people. Isaiah is not referring to a second annihilation...and he's not referring to eternal torture. A first century Jewish audience would have understood Jesus' references of Gehenna as a severe warning.
Who knows annihilation or not...Hell is awful no matter which it is.
Let's tell people about the saving grace of God through his son Jesus so we all go to be in Heaven with our Father.
*"Who knows annihilation or not?"* Paul knew. He said that the lost will cease to exist. 🔥 *They* [the lost] *will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction….* (2 Thes. 1: 9, ESV)
@IsaacNussbaum we don't know. Paul may have. He certainly does now. I don't think it matters which it is. I follow Jesus regardless. It isn't essential to our salvation which it is.
Either scenario is just as terrifying.
@@SKingJoy *"I don't think it matters which it is."* I think it does matter, S. K. I say that because the Bible has so much to say on the subject. Here, for example, are just a few of the things that Holy Writ tells us:
● The unsaved will die (Romans 8: 13).
● They will perish ("apollumi" - be utterly destroyed; consumed) (John 3: 16).
● They will vanish (Psalms 37: 20).
● They will be no more (Psalms 104: 36).
● They will be destroyed (Matthew 10: 28).
● They will burn completely up (Luke 3: 17).
● They will be consumed (Hebrews 10: 26-27).
● They will be reduced to ashes (2 Peter 2: 6).
● They will be like smoke that vanishes (Psalms 68: 2).
● They will be like water that flows away (Psalms 58: 7).
@@IsaacNussbaum ok. It is mentioned so that we know that all will perish if not saved by the Grace of God through the blood of Jesus Christ. How we perish is not the point. It is that we will perish whether by endless torment or annialation...the point is that we need a savior. That is why it is mentioned so many times. It is not something to argue over. God bless you and keep you. If you have received Christ you are going where Jesus prepared a place for you. So, let's rejoice together and give the Lord our God praise and thanks to for Holy Holy Holy is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Amen!
@@SKingJoy *"It is not something to argue over."* Arguing? I am not arguing. I am quoting Scripture in answer to the title question. I'm sorry that you think studying the Bible and believing what it says is arguing.
P. S. Yes, I have received Christ but I am not "going" anywhere. That's what the Bible says, too. But that's an _"argument"_ for another time.
There’s an actual physical place under the earth called Hades the holding place for unsaved souls. There is a flame day and night. See Luke 16 re: Lazarus and the rich man.
The parable in Luke 16:19-31 is a hidden message and cannot be understand literally.
The people of Israel were "the rich man" as they had the law, the prophets and the prophecies. The beggar represents the gentiles who had nothing of that richness, as they were not "the house of Israel", but were only brought into Christ at the cross.
Both heaven and hell are not a geographical place, but a state of mind.
Its a parable...
@@eekay5710 Total nonsense.
@@Landis_Grant
God is Spirit and so is His word. Hades means 'not to see'.
Hell is neither eternal nor annihilation. my goodness. Both contradicts God's love. Hell is real. You can't ignore this in scripture. The greek word Aion is mistranslated as 'eternal.' The literal meaning is age, NOT eternal. Hell is for an age. It's age-lasting for purpose of correction and purification. Rev 14:10, those is hell are tormented in Jesus presence. Why? Is Jesus sadistic? No! He is there to eventually bring them out after they are corrected and purged. 1Tim 4:10, Jesus is the savior of ALL. John 12:32 - 'I will draw ALL men unto myself" Matt 10:28, not 'destroy'. but literally 'ruin'. Soul of those in hell will come to ruin. Every knee will bow and tongues confess that Jesus is Lord and He will be ALL in ALL!!!!. This truth is consistent with God's love. Whom HE loves, he disciplines.
💯 agree. I think most people get caught up on the definition of aion. For example, it's hard to read "forever and ever" or "forever more" in the KJV and deduce anything other than forever. So I don't blame people for their confusion. But, aion is a clear mistranslation. I believe aion can mean eternal when God is the noun being modified, because God adds weight to aion. God is not limited time. If God is not the noun being modified, then a better translation is an age, age of ages, ages of the ages. (Young's Literal) Why? Because forever defies pluralization in English. We cannot add "and ever" or "more" to a word that means never ending.
@@johndalton1043 There is a Greek word that describes eternal. But it is never used in reference to Hell, but is used to describe God, who is eternal. The Greek word is Aidios, Rom 1:20 for example. Lord bless!
@@jakeyxxxtornado-dr4dr Isa 66:2, He looks for those 'who tremble at His word'. Most don't tremble at His word. If His word says a thing, that should settle it! I did not choose the word Aion to describe hell. His word said it, so I believed it! I'm not the only one who believe in God's restoration of ALL. Here is a link to a teaching on this subject.
th-cam.com/video/zMm7VzPgPIs/w-d-xo.html
Purgatory
@jakeyxxxtornado Purgatory
John 15:5
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
Burning forever in eternal punishment is included in the "nothing " they we can't do without Jesus. Without Jesus, (Gods Word) no one cam exist!!!
Anyone here familiar with the mistranslated Greek and Hebrew words in the KJV?
Anyone that believes that god would punish people forever and torture them forever has little to no heart whatsoever
Even in the new testament the Greek word that is translated as for ever and ever is aionios, which most Greek scholars agree more accurately translates as to the age of ages.greek root word aionios is aion, where we get our English word aeon from. which does imply a set duration of time
Remember the parable of The Rich Man and Lazarus, when rich man died he was tormented in hades. Luke ch 16 v 24: So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
I wish you people would stop using the story of the rich man and Lazarus to "prove" hell. Look, Jesus did not believe that dead people went to Abraham's bosom. How do we know? Jesus said so. ✴ _ …“Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,_ (John 11: 11-14; NIV)
I've been a Christian some time and have always struggled with the concept of hell and eternal torment or torture. Then I hear this alternative teaching on hell and I wonder if their teachings could be right. And if I'm honest I'm hoping they are. If there is another possible alternative then that would be great news right ? Why would I still want to think people are going to eternal torture when there might be an alternate way of looking at what scriptures are saying, Why would I not rejoice at hearing this. Just because I'm going to heaven, which by the way I didn’t deserve in the first place, I'd still love to hear that there is no one burning and being tortured in hell forever and ever. That they have instead been destroyed and perished, that they are instead no more. If there is any chance of that being truth, then why hold on to such a barbaric view ? I think it would say something about myself if I'd rather hold on to that veiw knowing things might be different.
You might even think, do I even care if people burn in hell forever or not.
I've heard some rather disturbing things concerning some people's belief in hell, describing in detail visions that they think they've seen. And it always strikes me as if they are obsessed in the things of hell. Do they have irrational fears about such a place ? I do personally believe this all comes from a fear of the unknown Where there is blanks we tend to sometimes fill them in with the most frightening things our minds can imagine.
The lake of fire is eternal, not the punishment. The body is not eternal so it cant feel eternal punishment. the soul is eternal but it does not feel physical pain.
the only punishment the unbeliever suffer is the knowledge that they will never be with God. after being fully aware of what that means and being judged by God with such justice that is beyond our ability to imagine.
I have always hoped for annihilation for the wicked, BUT Matthew 25:46, “And {the wicked} will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” The two words translated eternal above are from the same Greek word: aiōnion. It means “eternal” in both. By the way, if you say hell above is NOT eternal, do you also say eternal LIFE above is NOT eternal? They are the same word in one verse. Revelation 14:9-11, “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur…And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night..." By the way the word torment is translated from the Greek word "basanismou" and if you look in a Greek concordance it means torture, pain, torment. It does NOT mean annihilate. Also if a person who "went to hell" was annihilated, what does this mean; There is no rest day or night? A soul who was annihilated would not be able to rest or not rest, they would be annihilated. Finally, with all the above explanations on a score of verses, why didn't God just say, "I will annihilate the wicked?
@@Mike-qt7jp No one is saying hell isn't eternal. That's a strawman argument. Like I said it's the lake of fire is that's eternal.
A prison can be hundreds of years old and still be opened for hundreds of years more, that doesnt mean everyone sentence to go there will be locked up the entire time..