Love Toyota for sticking with the Mira and making it better. I like A\A's new studio background. I tune in for the exclusive trunk comfort index and stay for the great reviews.
I think it's a really good looking car and really excited about FCV technology. When it comes to the UK I fully intend to give it a test drive! Great reviews here and on TFL.
Have fun: of the 12 hydrogen pumps in the UK today, only 4 are working. 3 in the south East, one near Aberdeen. The infrastructure simply doesn't, and won't, exist (certainly at $1million for a single pump). It's a terrible idea for small passenger cars - inefficient and unreliable (a H2 station actually blew up a couple of years ago. There's video - it was dramatic). Trucks and heavy industry? Yes. Cars, absolutely not: the technology to replace petrol and diesel has already arrived: batteries. And hydrogen is too far behind to catch up. Hydrogen is the cul-de-sac of transportation. It only exists so that oil companies can promise "something better" in "10 years" time so you don't buy the BEV that's available today. And while you wait for the future that never arrives,... You buy petrol. Lots of petrol. And that's the con.
@@UProductions457 and yet Alex couldn't get any. Fun fact: H2 stations can only fill 12-14 cars before needing to downtime for de-icing (a few hours). Many can only fill 10 before they need re-filling themselves. This is not a recipe for mass transport. Not at all. And, as I say, H2 pumps are notoriously unreliable: they break FREQUENTLY. The technology is expensive, unreliable, horrifically inefficient and has already been superseded by BEVs. It's DOA.
Mate! You’ve got to include metric in your on screen stats. It doesn’t matter that you talk imperial but for those of us who live and breathe metric in our daily lives, a conversion would be helpful.
Hydrogen wouldn't be appropriate for Formula at this point. Fuel cell stacks still aren't energy dense enough and can't output the huge amounts of power needed in real time. There is a reason that the 2021 Mirai has a li-ion battery buffer for short bursts of power even when it still only has 182 hp max output. The fuel cell they can fit under that hood can't even put out 182 horses sustained on its own. This is barely ok for a passenger sedan but doable since most won't be giving it full power all the time but for Formula, forget it. Another reason fuel cells have a battery buffer is that currently fuel cells are better suited for running at sustained outputs and aren't great at ramping up and ramping down power. They work better as a generator recharging a battery. So that is why it would be terrible for racing which requires lots of ramping up and down of power constantly. You would need a way oversized fuel cell to get the sustained power needed to be constantly recharging the onboard battery that would be feeding the electric motors.
@@vitordelima That doesn't exist though. Just like high density solid-state batteries don't exist. Current hydrogen tech and even near future hydrogen tech doesn't exist for Formula racing.
Does Hydrogen refueling infrastructure in Germany meet you traveling needs? Free 15000$ for Hydrogen in the USA per new bought car for 3 years is a lot of money intended to refuel the car with Hydrogen. What are incentives in Germany to buy and refuel a such car?
@@nevco8774 Here in Germany I don't think we get those free fueling, but the price for 1 kg is set about 10 €, which is known to be not covering the costs, but to support the spread of hydrogen cars a bit. So a full tank is basically as pricy as a normal gasoline one. Fortunately there are more fuel stations in Germany already than in any other European country (about 100). That's still not enough, but at least something and a few should be in reach for everyone.
Considering the fact, how quickly the battery technology is developping, simultaneously getting cheaper, and the fact that charging home a BEV is several times cheaper that gasoline/petrol or public fast charging, plus tax incentives, the BEVs will prevail as vehicles for personal commute. Hydrogen will make sense for big commercial long haul vehicles while city vans and trucks/lorries will be BEVs as well. At this point having 3 Hydrogen fuel cells cars - Toyota Mirai, Honda Clarity and Hyundai Nexo can be considered experimental since those automakers want to perfect technology in small sizes before scaling for large commercial vehicles.
@@nevco8774 False. Until we find the next step after even graphene, battery cells are still far far away from being as good as a tank of gas because if you look at engineering explained's video, you can see just how much more batteries it takes to equal just one gallon of gas. Nothing will replace gasoline for quite some time. Also trucks and vans will NOT be BEVs any time soon. Keep in mind how much range and power you lose towing something not to mention they aren't as good at towing as diesel vehicles so like I said before, BEVs won't be use in other than regular cars for a long long time. And no, just because Tesla released a Tesla Semi that STILL isn't being sold doesn't mean Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Scania, Renault, etc will be too.
This is encouraging as a relatively new technology. Hopefully other car manufacturers and governments will see the benefits over plug-in electric vehicles. Especially with regard to the supporting infrastructure.
East Wenatchee in north central Washington state is developing a Hydrogen station for 2022. The Legislature is looking at Seattle to develop hydrogen stations to be able to use it for commercial use and long haul transportation and trucking. Hope this comes through. Love the look and features of the Mirai.
You see similarities between this Mirai and Lexus is not a coincidence, this is in fact the cancelled Lexus GS. Toyota had already achieved design freeze and was heavily completed in development for the next generation GS before it was cancelled, and instead of wasting all of that development of resources chose to repurpose it for the Mirai.
@Brian Lee yeah agreed, the first gen looked like a car from a Syfy movie/Cyberpunk anime, like a concept car that really made to the production line, this second Gen is like a close cousin of the Avalon; is ok but not out of common... Like the mayority of cars out there
The fuel is currently expensive to produce. Infrastructure to fuel up is almost non-existent. I can't even tell you where a single hydrogen station is in the Phoenix, Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa or Tempe area of Arizona. To me, that alone makes this car impractical.
I really do think hydrogen is the future for powering vehicles. Solar farms and wind farms can produce hydrogen in remote places and have it transported to the cities to be used. There's just too much compromise with EV's. Most city dwellers don't have garages to charge them. Disposal of those large batteries will also cause serious problems if they're to become more popular.
Hydrogen requires much more electricity to be made, in comparison to battery electric vehicle, which can be powered directly from power grid, and use it efficiently. You can't cheat physics this way, the reaction which leads to creation of hydrogen is very demanding in terms of energy. Which means more CO2 emissions, as we won't produce so much power from renewable sources for looong time, and the production of electricity always has a cost. Meanwhile, batteries can be recycled. Sometimes "compromise" is still the best thing we have. You also have to remember that batteries will evolve. But huge amount of energy needed to produce hydrogen won't change. Hydrogen seems to be a dangerous fallacy that is attractive, because it seems comfortable and doesn't require any change of habits (you fill it up like a gas car).
@@cytrynowy_melon6604 What you say about hydrogen is with reference to today's or yesterday's technology. Let's give it a chance to advance. It took a long time and an abundance of goodwill for Tesla to take off also. The problem with power grid is that it needs to be close to where the consumption is, which is usually close to highly populated areas, and they're powered by fossil fuels. Electricity in general can't be stored. You use it or lose it. Excess electricity can sometimes be dangerous too.
@@kMan00001 If you talk about the future then you know, that EVs can be wireless chargers (Sweden made a road that can charge your EVs), swap batteries, wireless electricity. And in the future there will also be batteries that have a bigger energy density than now, more energy density means more energy that can be stored, lighter, have more range, and more efficient. Also, electric more cheaper than hydrogen.
@@paperhouse6282 It won't change that it takes hours to charge. Besides, it's inherently much heavier causing more tear and wear on tires and suspension and the roads they ride on, which isn't exactly saving the world. It's true that there're applications that are suited for EVs, e.g. buses and service vehicles. You don't need to look at Sweden. Even in the US, there're buses that charge wirelessly at the stops. These vehicles are used all day everyday, which enhances the longevity of batteries. For people who use their cars occasionally or just use them to shop for groceries and family vacations, EVs will be rotting in their garage while the batteries slowly die.
@@kMan00001 Did you know that EVs are more efficient that means they can charge fast, especially with solid state battery technology. Let's just say that the current 75 kwh battery weight is 300 kg with an energy density of 250 watts / kg, if the energy density becomes 500 watts / kg then the weight of the battery becomes 150 kg, less weight means more range. That's just a calculation of the weight of the battery, not yet regarding the thermal system of the new type of battery which will be much better than the current battery.
Two things that I don’t understand. One, why we don’t have this tech everywhere? Two, why is that less than 400K subscribers? Alex you are the best reviewer/TH-camr
Simple: the basic tech for refueling is inefficient and very expensive. Combine that with the fact that Toyota and Hyundai are now the only two major manufacturers on the planet still making these cars - the others long since abandoning HCEVs - and you get no economic incentive at all to build the infrastructure. What's there only exists because government paid for a big chunk of it. Without economic reasons, the infrastructure to support hydrogen cars at any kind of scale for mass adoption will never be built. Ever. And without it, the cars themselves will never go mainstream. The market has moved beyond Hydrogen for cars. It is a zombie technology being pushed by oil companies as propeganda against EVs and Toyota, who are unwilling to write off their huge investment and too proud to admit they backed the wrong horse.
its looks are the only thing that it has going for it.... I do not even like Tesla but the Model 3 is far superior without all the rebates and credits...
There are many options for making and storing hydrogen which aren't being explored. Some of them include recharging it at home and dramatically reducing the weight of the storage by avoiding the use of compressed or liquefied hydrogen.
True, but if you run out on the go, once more hydrogen stations are built, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles can be refueled significantly faster than BEVs and without degrading the battery either. Also unless you want your car to be charged in less than 2 weeks, you will need a more powerful socket that will make your electricity bill go through the roof.
@@UProductions457 And it's abundant: waste water, agricultural waste, most trash, low grade oil and coal, ... all of them can be used as sources. And it can be easily made from water.
I also reviewed this Mirai in my video! I didn't drive it, but I loved how it looked and it was very appealing compared to its last generation, which looked like a modified Prius.
You could have explained the difference in Power Output of the fuel cell and system power a bit better. The Mirai (and every other FCEV) is essentially a Hybrid. It has to power sources (H2 tanks and Battery) and two power converters (fuel cell and electric motor) and it gets it's system power output from the combination of those two power sources. The fuel cell can deliver a + the battery b = c, the system power. That also explains why they didn't put in a 300 kW electic motor to any Tesla fan asking: the battery+fuel cell couldn't feed it enough power.
Alex, This Miraculous Mirai® is a huge leap forward. When they come out with a wagon/manual transmission version I'm buying. More practically, I hope this move to RWD encourages Toyota to #upgrade the rear electric motors on all their AWD Hybrids to improve the traction and dynamism of their mainstream models.
I wish more makers/designers would do as toyota did here and use thinner C pillars with more glass which = better and safety visibility and an airier cabin. So many vehicle interiors are so damn dark now.
Toyoto cut down platinum levels in the stacks to the levels of regular ICE vichels .. like 7 mg from like 50 mg decades ago which is a great achievment making the hydrogen cars practical in commercialization the only problem is providing the fuel more affordably. And cheaper ..
Do you have a source for that info? Last I knew, GM/Honda was aiming at 11 grams (not miligrams) for the next generation. A typical gas car has 3 or 4 while a typical diesel car has 7 or so IIRC.
Hydrogen powered cars are a sleeper in the market. There should be be a market for very heavy vehicles (especially semis) and here in Canada with very sparse population/charging stations outside cities.
@@rightlanehog3151 Yes which is my point. Outside large cities population very sparce with long drives in the middle of nowhere. Do you realize Canada is 1/10 population of US?
Climate control module looks like an aftermarket 8 tracks player from the 70’s .Overall the exterior design of the previous Mirai was more modern , the front of this one looklike as a FR-S.
It always seems that reviewers show the front end from an angle you will never see it. Normally, we are looking down at the grill, not kneeling on the road looking at it head on. Of course, virtually all Toyota grills are large and ugly these days - this seems one of their more conservative ones.
Somehow Japan Inc. is on a losing streak with styling lately. Honda Civics look horrible and all Toyotas and Lexii look bad with that giant fish mouth.
Fuel cell don't make sense, use energy to convert to Hydrogen. And that hydrogen engine will still only be 40% efficient. Not to mention you still need to have regular service and wast by product from the service.
@@ytj22 - Much better being a Tesla shareholder than a Toyota one. www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-china-breakingviews/breakingviews-tesla-valuation-speeds-into-ludicrous-mode-idUSKBN1Z72ZW
Don't understand the reason for the short wheel base resulting in a super short and uncomfortable back seat. The fuel cell already takes up so much of the trunk and the mid seat a longer car would've given a more comfortable ride for passengers.
Almost certainly owned by Toyota Corporation - Toyota moved their headquarters out of California several years ago. Toyota has mobile fueling stations they used while testing everywhere from Alaska to Death Valley.
So what is the point of hydrogen? In it's present state, you get fuel efficiency no better than BEVs AND power output of a 1980s diesel. You either store it under pressure as a highly explosive gas or use electricity to generate it from other substances on site at which point you might as well put that electricity directly into the BEV since the efficiency of hydrogen generation is on par with modern BEVs.
Excellent review! Would be nice if you could get to folks at Toyota and explain more about New, Efficient fuel cells used on the car. With the cut section of the car
Yes and also no. In terms of pressure, those tanks are pressurised to 700bar. For context that’s 32 times the pressure LPG is stored at. Those big metal barbecue gas cylinders? 32 times that’s pressure. So in terms of pressure release, there will be an explosion. In terms of actual ignition, there won’t be a fireball unless there is a source of ignition. Hydrogen is explosive in air through an extraordinarily large range. Between 4%-74% saturation in air can result in an explosion.
On our planet, hydrogen is not an energy source but an energy carrier. It has to be produced from hydrocarbons or water by a chemical reaction that requires energy. That energy could come from nuclear fusion or from renewables. Hydrogen is also highly combustible and explosive when in gas form. While hydrogen is the next leap in technological progress, humanity is not yet energy wealthy enough to make it mainstream. Mirai really is the future that is happening today.
I remember Toyota stating that they wanted to partner with a company to set up H2 refueling stations across the USA, with a 400 mile range and access to green hydrogen - the fuel cell may become a better option for much larger SUVs and commercial vehicles that batteries.
You can easily afford one. It qualifies for the $8,000 tax credit, you pay for no fuel for 60,000 miles. It also qualifies for the $4500 cash rebate from California. After all is said and done it is costing you about the same TCO as a Corolla. If you don't live in California or Hawaii then you're out of luck of course.
@@homomorphic yes that’s what I listed B). I just ordered a Camry Hybrid XSE so I’m happy with my purchase. This would have been cool. I wouldn’t get a tax credit since I never owe. You don’t get it if you receive a refund.
Fuel cells systems fit the chassis of standard cars better so I guess this is why Toyota is able to put this together with only the fuel cell system setup being the real change. Full electric battery cars have like a totally different chassis. Interesting car, if I got free hydrogen for life I’d think about it. Still think FCEV is better for trucks and buses.
Wow, that's amazing technology! And after all the rebates, the car can be as low as $22,000 ? That is INCREDIBLE! That credit and rebates makes it a attractive buy! Federal Tax Credit $ 8,000 California Rebate Credit $ 4,500 Hydrogen fuel card $ 15,000 Wow, $27,500 off
The Periodic Table designation for Hydrogen is not H2. It is H. The formula for water is H2O, which indicates 2 atoms of Hydrogen in combination with 1 atom of Oxygen.
Have you ever seen oxygen written as just O instead of O2? Both are diatonic elements which means they are not stable until they bind with either another element/molecule or themselves. So in a tank full of hydrogen, you won't find single H atoms floating around, instead you will find a whole bunch of H2 pairs.
The new Mirai lease price is a huge increase over what exists today. Current Mirai leases for $340/month with the same down pymt and $15k in fuel included. Current Clarity offer is $380/month with the same $15k in fuel included.
How often do you floor your accelerator in normal driving? Toyota knows exactly how much power people actually use from decades of studying it. They aren't going for bragging rights. (My 2010 Fusion hybrid accelerates at 8.2 seconds IIRC or at least it supposedly did when it was new - and I seldom come anywhere close to testing that)
As much as I appreciate Toyota getting this into an affordable price range for many buyers, I’d honestly love to see Lexus get a version of this and re-skin it with their own style, give it a Lexus interior, and have it be the new GS we never got. If they got the range high enough and dialed in the driving dynamics just a little bit more, I’d have it over a Model S in a heartbeat.
Interesting about how hydrogen is stored at the station. I assume liquefied H2 allows for more H2 at a given station? I work near a station that has normal gas and diesel and off to the side a dedicated H2 pump. I notice several Murai's in the area but maybe have only seen 1 Nexo. What's the best selling H2 vehicle?
I really want to like this car and the current Toyota incentives are soy tempting. However the lack of backseat headroom is real. The limited edition have even lower roofline due to the sunroof. I'm 5'11 and have to slouch in the back rowt to not touch the roof liner. It feel very claustrophobic for me. I don't think this will work as a family car if you plan to drive full size passengers in the back row regularly.
There are enough to fuel the planned fcev production numbers. Toyota only plans to build ~30,000 per year for global consumption. As fuel cell costs drop, production numbers will increase while the size and number of stations will also increase. With higher demand for hydrogen, it will become economical to supply hydrogen via pipeline, eliminating the cost of trucking and on site storage. Meanwhile, larger production runs of compressors will drop the price of that component as well. Rome wasn't built in a day.
@@cccharlie1972 so building the infrastructure for hydrogen driven vehicles will take decades to accomplish provided that the petroleum companies do not prevent the development of hydrogen fuel cells that would wipe out the need for gasoline. Unless the petroleum companies get on board with the attitude that its better to join the hydrogen fuel cell competition than to eliminate the competition in order to maintain gasoline and Diesel engines. An enormous amount of money over decades have been invested in the petroleum industry in which gasoline production is a major part of the business.
I still think they should increase the battery size to 18 kWh and get rid of one of the Hydrogen tanks, making this a plug in Hybrid Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle.. PHFCEV.. with about 315 miles of range. That would leave most daily driving to the battery, and all extended range trips would use Hydrogen. Hydrogen fueling stations are currently an issue in that they can only fill so many cars per day. Making it so these cars don't need to fill up as often would be a huge improvement and allow more fuel cell vehicles to be sold. That would certainly add to production costs... approximately $2700 for the battery pack at $150 per kWh at the pack level + whatever other electronics and cooling systems it needs, but Toyota could save money by reducing the fuel incentive. The biggest downside is that this is already a heavy car at 4300 lbs. I can't imagine removing a tank and plumbing would save much weight... maybe 100 lbs... but adding 17 kWh of cells would add a good 400 lbs.
Nice looking exterior. Arguably the best looking current Toyota vehicle and I’m not a fan of Toyota’s design aesthetic by any means. Hideous IP, particularly to the left of the gauge cluster. What’s with putting the “Fuel Cell” insignia on the rocker panels, directly in the splash zone?
I love the idea of H2, but would a solid state battery that charges 0-100% in 10 minutes render it obsolete? The rollout of H2 fueling stations is overwhelming but there are chargers all over now.
I think is going to be application specific. Even with soils state batteries, it would take massive amounts of batteries to move an 80k pound truck down the triad even 200 miles. With hydrogen having a lot more energy than any battery for the next decade, heavy trucks will probably use hydrogen. Plus they’d have easy access to hydrogen fueling at home base or at large truck stops.
@@slscamg for reference, it takes the common diesel fueled truck, from a gallon of diesel, it takes like 60% of the energy just to move the truck from a stop........so a lot of diesel is wasted on just moving the truck, but an electric would actually be more advantageous because a truck is all about high torque to move heavy loads, im not sure hydrogen could produce enough torque to be more efficient than that diesel or electric battery....
It is possible, though not guaranteed, that the future will have superior batteries that would drastically cut down on the use cases for passenger cars with fuel cells. But with hundreds of millions of cars on the world's roads, it is hard to imagine there is no room for hydrogen in the mix. There is no way any one such technology could instantly scale up, and plenty of places may not have power grids that can deal with mass adoption of BEVs.
@@alanhorn8253 biggest way I see it is that it could potentially be used like a range extender, but no need for the combustion engine. Would just power the batteries.
Alex, As usual, an outstanding review of a fascinating vehicle. I've read a lot and watched a bunch of videos on TH-cam about hydrogen cars. Most make fantastic claims about hydrogen being the fuel of the future, and that it will make both conventional gas and diesel cars as well as electric battery cars obsolete. Since America has become self sufficient on petroleum, and the largest producer in the world, it seems it will be some time before this happens. Also not surprisingly, Elon Musk vehemently denigrates hydrogen power. He has a lot to lose I guess. I will check out the new Toyota further on the basis of your review. Thanks, keep up the great work.
4:38. That is absolutely incorrect. PEM fuel cells do work in reverse. The Mirai fuel cell is not plumbed that way, but PEM fuel cells absolutely will take in water and electricity and output hydrogen and oxygen.
My guess would be that it wasn't practical in a vehicle. It would have to take the water do the conversion and then under high pressure pump it back into that storage tank. I'm also not sure I have no clue what the rate of conversion could be. You're often not in a breaking situation under regen for that long of a period of time so it may not have been practical in the vehicle.
@@kens97sto171 it would be absolutely stupid to do it in a vehicle. The entire benefit of a fuel cell is that it doesn't need to be charged in place. Having to be charged in place is what makes batteries so dumb. With a fuel cell the system is in two parts. One fixed system produces the charged hydrogen when there is higher renewable production, and then the other mobile fuel cell has the hydrogen loaded into it in a couple of minutes. By decoupling the charge and discharge cycles the system is far more capable than a battery which must be immobilized in order to be charged and exposes the vehicle itself to the high energy charge cycle (making the vehicle susceptible to fire).
@@homomorphic I'm fully aware of how both system function. The comment was ..that the water that is produced during electrical conversion in a fuel cell can theoretically be resplit back into hydrogen and oxygen and then put back into the hydrogen tank during regenerative braking. That's what the discussion was about . My comment was that it's probably possible technically but not practical in the limitations that a vehicle has with space and the time frame involved. The problem with hydrogen powered vehicles is in their entire energy cycle they are very inefficient . it takes a significant amount of energy to create the hydrogen in the first place and most of that energy is created is from fossil fuels also a lot of hydrogen is source directly from fossil fuels in the first place most of it is broken up from natural gas I believe or methane. And that way a battery electric is actually the more efficient way to go you're converting electricity directly into electricity rather than dealing with the chemical conversions back and forth. Charging rates on a battery Electric have gotten good enough today that I'm not sure that it really matters. However you certainly are carrying a whole lot of weight around with you and that is certainly a negative. Hydrogen also has the problem of then requiring that liquid or gaseous hydrogen to be transported all over the country or piped just like gasoline is today only it's a much more volatile substance. Personally I think battery electrics are probably going to win this race, hydrogen being used in particular circumstances where rapid refueling is of great importance.
@@kens97sto171the proper solution for regenerative braking is supercapacitors. Supercapacitors have exactly the required characteristics. They are low weight and low capacity but with enormous charge end discharge rates. The amount of capacity needed to recapture any amount of braking on a day to day basis is only about 1kWh. The battery in the Mirai is 1.25kWh, but they reserve about 25% of the capacity for battery management (unnecessary with a supercapacitor). The only reason that Toyota isn't using supercapacitors is that at this time there is not a ready supply of automotive grade supercapacitors, and developing automotive grade supercapacitors would add significant cost to the vehicle at this stage, so the battery is a stop gap. Once they get volumes up to around a steady 1M vehicles per year then Toyota will transition to supercapacitors. The idea of making the vehicle fuel cell reversible is absolutely asinine, but stating that PEM fuel cells are *not* reversible is simply incorrect. Also a fuel cell electric vehicle *is* an electric vehicle. It's right there in the name.
But it would then be Self Charging! You'd be using more energy to convert to H2 and O2 than you'd recover in the cell. Much like Toyota's "Self Charging Hybrid". Shame about it peeing water on your garage floor if you don't flush it.
I think you joke, but yes, it does. The fuel cell operates as quite a high temperature, and kicks out plenty of waste heat to keep the car interior warm (if needed.)
Yes, as electric car demands climb they can add thorium reactors. The rest of the grid is already in place for added charging stations. This fuel is pricey and only has support in CA, and that is limited.
If the oil companies, er I mean, Toyota would have pursued hydrogen more aggressively back in 2004, today's auto landscape would be quite a different story.
This is gotta be the most unexpected RWD ever
Brian Lee lol
or the Volvo 240
tim for a car first released in the 70s it's not really a surprise
Honda E
It’s like the Camry, Prius, Avalon, Rav4, and Lexus ES all rolled into one. I like it. 😀👍
Gt86 bonnet
instablaster
What a beautiful car. Akio wasn’t kidding when he said no more boring cars.
Also may wanna mention the Mirai is available in Hawaii as well, but only on the island of Oahu.
Do they even have hydrogen stations in Hawaii?
@@Shabbe02 there is one on Oahu at the main Toyota dealership
@@johnjames7712 oh cool
rhymes with hawaii
@@Shabbe02 Only one at the Mapunapuna dealership in Honolulu.
Just finished watching your video for TFL. Still gonna watch all of this one. 👍🏼
@Michael Wayne Alex did a Mirai video for The Fast Lane, another excellent car review channel.
Love Toyota for sticking with the Mira and making it better. I like A\A's new studio background. I tune in for the exclusive trunk comfort index and stay for the great reviews.
I have still decided, I will get one of the first Mirai in April in Germany
Have u got?
I think it's a really good looking car and really excited about FCV technology. When it comes to the UK I fully intend to give it a test drive! Great reviews here and on TFL.
Have fun: of the 12 hydrogen pumps in the UK today, only 4 are working. 3 in the south East, one near Aberdeen.
The infrastructure simply doesn't, and won't, exist (certainly at $1million for a single pump). It's a terrible idea for small passenger cars - inefficient and unreliable (a H2 station actually blew up a couple of years ago. There's video - it was dramatic).
Trucks and heavy industry? Yes. Cars, absolutely not: the technology to replace petrol and diesel has already arrived: batteries. And hydrogen is too far behind to catch up.
Hydrogen is the cul-de-sac of transportation. It only exists so that oil companies can promise "something better" in "10 years" time so you don't buy the BEV that's available today. And while you wait for the future that never arrives,... You buy petrol. Lots of petrol.
And that's the con.
@@timaustin2000 Fun fact, if you live in California, there are 42 so if you live in California, there is no problem with it.
@@UProductions457 ; Did you watch the video? Alex was stranded with no hydrogen. Big problem when you can not refuel.
@@UProductions457 and yet Alex couldn't get any.
Fun fact: H2 stations can only fill 12-14 cars before needing to downtime for de-icing (a few hours). Many can only fill 10 before they need re-filling themselves.
This is not a recipe for mass transport. Not at all. And, as I say, H2 pumps are notoriously unreliable: they break FREQUENTLY.
The technology is expensive, unreliable, horrifically inefficient and has already been superseded by BEVs. It's DOA.
@@timaustin2000 Old stations could supply ~80 kg per day. Recently built stations supply ~1,000 kg per day.
It looks similar to the LS because it's actually based on the Japanese market Toyota Crown, hence the RWD and other luxury touches.
Mate! You’ve got to include metric in your on screen stats. It doesn’t matter that you talk imperial but for those of us who live and breathe metric in our daily lives, a conversion would be helpful.
Then watch another review!!!
Yeah, I guess I can understand. If he were to put metric stats only, I would have some confusion.
Maybe if we had a Formula H racing series, more people would see the advantages of hydrogen.
Hydrogen wouldn't be appropriate for Formula at this point. Fuel cell stacks still aren't energy dense enough and can't output the huge amounts of power needed in real time. There is a reason that the 2021 Mirai has a li-ion battery buffer for short bursts of power even when it still only has 182 hp max output. The fuel cell they can fit under that hood can't even put out 182 horses sustained on its own. This is barely ok for a passenger sedan but doable since most won't be giving it full power all the time but for Formula, forget it.
Another reason fuel cells have a battery buffer is that currently fuel cells are better suited for running at sustained outputs and aren't great at ramping up and ramping down power. They work better as a generator recharging a battery. So that is why it would be terrible for racing which requires lots of ramping up and down of power constantly. You would need a way oversized fuel cell to get the sustained power needed to be constantly recharging the onboard battery that would be feeding the electric motors.
@@flipadavis The idea that was proposed by Renault was using combustion engines and liquid or powder storage.
@@vitordelima That doesn't exist though. Just like high density solid-state batteries don't exist. Current hydrogen tech and even near future hydrogen tech doesn't exist for Formula racing.
@@flipadavis Search engine, do you use it?
Smarty pants!🤓
I absolutely love that car!! Have to get one here in Germany as soon as I can
ich auch.
Does Hydrogen refueling infrastructure in Germany meet you traveling needs? Free 15000$ for Hydrogen in the USA per new bought car for 3 years is a lot of money intended to refuel the car with Hydrogen. What are incentives in Germany to buy and refuel a such car?
@@nevco8774 Here in Germany I don't think we get those free fueling, but the price for 1 kg is set about 10 €, which is known to be not covering the costs, but to support the spread of hydrogen cars a bit. So a full tank is basically as pricy as a normal gasoline one. Fortunately there are more fuel stations in Germany already than in any other European country (about 100). That's still not enough, but at least something and a few should be in reach for everyone.
Considering the fact, how quickly the battery technology is developping, simultaneously getting cheaper, and the fact that charging home a BEV is several times cheaper that gasoline/petrol or public fast charging, plus tax incentives, the BEVs will prevail as vehicles for personal commute. Hydrogen will make sense for big commercial long haul vehicles while city vans and trucks/lorries will be BEVs as well.
At this point having 3 Hydrogen fuel cells cars - Toyota Mirai, Honda Clarity and Hyundai Nexo can be considered experimental since those automakers want to perfect technology in small sizes before scaling for large commercial vehicles.
@@nevco8774 False. Until we find the next step after even graphene, battery cells are still far far away from being as good as a tank of gas because if you look at engineering explained's video, you can see just how much more batteries it takes to equal just one gallon of gas. Nothing will replace gasoline for quite some time. Also trucks and vans will NOT be BEVs any time soon. Keep in mind how much range and power you lose towing something not to mention they aren't as good at towing as diesel vehicles so like I said before, BEVs won't be use in other than regular cars for a long long time. And no, just because Tesla released a Tesla Semi that STILL isn't being sold doesn't mean Peterbuilt, Kenworth, Scania, Renault, etc will be too.
It would have been great to see more of the car.
wow the side profile of the car looks beautiful
Wish it is hatchback like A7
This is encouraging as a relatively new technology. Hopefully other car manufacturers and governments will see the benefits over plug-in electric vehicles. Especially with regard to the supporting infrastructure.
I know. BEVs take too long to charge and weigh too much.
@@UProductions457 Isn't the Toyota Mirai heavier than the Tesla Model 3
2020 was truly hideous. Good thing they changed it.
East Wenatchee in north central Washington state is developing a Hydrogen station for 2022. The Legislature is looking at Seattle to develop hydrogen stations to be able to use it for commercial use and long haul transportation and trucking. Hope this comes through. Love the look and features of the Mirai.
You see similarities between this Mirai and Lexus is not a coincidence, this is in fact the cancelled Lexus GS. Toyota had already achieved design freeze and was heavily completed in development for the next generation GS before it was cancelled, and instead of wasting all of that development of resources chose to repurpose it for the Mirai.
I really loved the looks of the first gen Mirai...
I found the first gen Mirai to be hideously ugly, especially in person. This one looks a lot better IMHO.
@Brian Lee yeah agreed, the first gen looked like a car from a Syfy movie/Cyberpunk anime, like a concept car that really made to the production line, this second Gen is like a close cousin of the Avalon; is ok but not out of common... Like the mayority of cars out there
The fuel is currently expensive to produce. Infrastructure to fuel up is almost non-existent. I can't even tell you where a single hydrogen station is in the Phoenix, Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa or Tempe area of Arizona. To me, that alone makes this car impractical.
I really do think hydrogen is the future for powering vehicles. Solar farms and wind farms can produce hydrogen in remote places and have it transported to the cities to be used. There's just too much compromise with EV's. Most city dwellers don't have garages to charge them. Disposal of those large batteries will also cause serious problems if they're to become more popular.
Hydrogen requires much more electricity to be made, in comparison to battery electric vehicle, which can be powered directly from power grid, and use it efficiently. You can't cheat physics this way, the reaction which leads to creation of hydrogen is very demanding in terms of energy. Which means more CO2 emissions, as we won't produce so much power from renewable sources for looong time, and the production of electricity always has a cost. Meanwhile, batteries can be recycled. Sometimes "compromise" is still the best thing we have. You also have to remember that batteries will evolve. But huge amount of energy needed to produce hydrogen won't change. Hydrogen seems to be a dangerous fallacy that is attractive, because it seems comfortable and doesn't require any change of habits (you fill it up like a gas car).
@@cytrynowy_melon6604 What you say about hydrogen is with reference to today's or yesterday's technology. Let's give it a chance to advance. It took a long time and an abundance of goodwill for Tesla to take off also. The problem with power grid is that it needs to be close to where the consumption is, which is usually close to highly populated areas, and they're powered by fossil fuels. Electricity in general can't be stored. You use it or lose it. Excess electricity can sometimes be dangerous too.
@@kMan00001 If you talk about the future then you know, that EVs can be wireless chargers (Sweden made a road that can charge your EVs), swap batteries, wireless electricity.
And in the future there will also be batteries that have a bigger energy density than now, more energy density means more energy that can be stored, lighter, have more range, and more efficient.
Also, electric more cheaper than hydrogen.
@@paperhouse6282 It won't change that it takes hours to charge. Besides, it's inherently much heavier causing more tear and wear on tires and suspension and the roads they ride on, which isn't exactly saving the world. It's true that there're applications that are suited for EVs, e.g. buses and service vehicles. You don't need to look at Sweden. Even in the US, there're buses that charge wirelessly at the stops. These vehicles are used all day everyday, which enhances the longevity of batteries. For people who use their cars occasionally or just use them to shop for groceries and family vacations, EVs will be rotting in their garage while the batteries slowly die.
@@kMan00001 Did you know that EVs are more efficient that means they can charge fast, especially with solid state battery technology. Let's just say that the current 75 kwh battery weight is 300 kg with an energy density of 250 watts / kg, if the energy density becomes 500 watts / kg then the weight of the battery becomes 150 kg, less weight means more range. That's just a calculation of the weight of the battery, not yet regarding the thermal system of the new type of battery which will be much better than the current battery.
Two things that I don’t understand. One, why we don’t have this tech everywhere? Two, why is that less than 400K subscribers?
Alex you are the best reviewer/TH-camr
Simple: the basic tech for refueling is inefficient and very expensive. Combine that with the fact that Toyota and Hyundai are now the only two major manufacturers on the planet still making these cars - the others long since abandoning HCEVs - and you get no economic incentive at all to build the infrastructure. What's there only exists because government paid for a big chunk of it.
Without economic reasons, the infrastructure to support hydrogen cars at any kind of scale for mass adoption will never be built. Ever. And without it, the cars themselves will never go mainstream.
The market has moved beyond Hydrogen for cars. It is a zombie technology being pushed by oil companies as propeganda against EVs and Toyota, who are unwilling to write off their huge investment and too proud to admit they backed the wrong horse.
They trying to stretch the profit on the bev hype..
They should have included n 11kw pack for instant omph as well as increasing the range but also save having to activate the stack until 50% etc
This car looks soo awesome it gives me Lexus vibes I know this owns Lexus but still it’s quality looking
I think this should have been the replacement for the Lexus GS
@@naveenthemachine it is the Lexus GS that was cancelled and the development repurposed
its looks are the only thing that it has going for it.... I do not even like Tesla but the Model 3 is far superior without all the rebates and credits...
One of the few advantages that BEVs have over hydrogen is that you can charge at home and at like any random outlet.
And electric charging stations don't contain a large amount of gas under pressure (aka a bomb)
There are many options for making and storing hydrogen which aren't being explored. Some of them include recharging it at home and dramatically reducing the weight of the storage by avoiding the use of compressed or liquefied hydrogen.
True, but if you run out on the go, once more hydrogen stations are built, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles can be refueled significantly faster than BEVs and without degrading the battery either. Also unless you want your car to be charged in less than 2 weeks, you will need a more powerful socket that will make your electricity bill go through the roof.
@@UProductions457 And it's abundant: waste water, agricultural waste, most trash, low grade oil and coal, ... all of them can be used as sources. And it can be easily made from water.
Wait till they bring out a plug in version with a 100km range battery.😁
I also reviewed this Mirai in my video! I didn't drive it, but I loved how it looked and it was very appealing compared to its last generation, which looked like a modified Prius.
hydrogen feels like future to me this would be the best. electricity for now this for future more like 10 years
BEV are the future not fuel cell.
You could have explained the difference in Power Output of the fuel cell and system power a bit better. The Mirai (and every other FCEV) is essentially a Hybrid. It has to power sources (H2 tanks and Battery) and two power converters (fuel cell and electric motor) and it gets it's system power output from the combination of those two power sources. The fuel cell can deliver a + the battery b = c, the system power.
That also explains why they didn't put in a 300 kW electic motor to any Tesla fan asking: the battery+fuel cell couldn't feed it enough power.
Alex, This Miraculous Mirai® is a huge leap forward. When they come out with a wagon/manual transmission version I'm buying. More practically, I hope this move to RWD encourages Toyota to #upgrade the rear electric motors on all their AWD Hybrids to improve the traction and dynamism of their mainstream models.
Agree with that - Subaru Outback for life ;) ;) ;)
Chance of that happening for America is 0.00% Americans hate manuals and wagons, and that is sad.
@@LearnAboutFlow :( I suppose we can hope for a really low slung, sleek CUV version that reminds us of a wagon.
@@pilot1226 There is a lot I really like about the Outback but I wish Toyota and Subaru would share more components .
@@rightlanehog3151 I don’t disagree. The XT would be a perfect car if it had a 6 speed automatic and the D4S double injector setup.
I currently drive a Clarity. Would love a wagon version (not a CUV) of any of these.
Yes, that would double the practicality.
Love what Toyota did here. Rwd gets my money. Now if only they sold them here. What a great vehicle for surprisingly not a lot of money
I wish more makers/designers would do as toyota did here and use thinner C pillars with more glass which = better and safety visibility and an airier cabin. So many vehicle interiors are so damn dark now.
Toyoto cut down platinum levels in the stacks to the levels of regular ICE vichels .. like 7 mg from like 50 mg decades ago which is a great achievment making the hydrogen cars practical in commercialization the only problem is providing the fuel more affordably. And cheaper ..
Do you have a source for that info? Last I knew, GM/Honda was aiming at 11 grams (not miligrams) for the next generation. A typical gas car has 3 or 4 while a typical diesel car has 7 or so IIRC.
Hydrogen powered cars are a sleeper in the market. There should be be a market for very heavy vehicles (especially semis) and here in Canada with very sparse population/charging stations outside cities.
Do you realise Canada has a higher rate of urbanization than the USA?
@@rightlanehog3151 Yes which is my point. Outside large cities population very sparce with long drives in the middle of nowhere. Do you realize Canada is 1/10 population of US?
Climate control module looks like an aftermarket 8 tracks player from the 70’s .Overall the exterior design of the previous Mirai was more modern , the front of this one looklike as a FR-S.
It always seems that reviewers show the front end from an angle you will never see it. Normally, we are looking down at the grill, not kneeling on the road looking at it head on. Of course, virtually all Toyota grills are large and ugly these days - this seems one of their more conservative ones.
If this thing was a hatchback, it would be a Kia Singer but with Hydrogen haha
Toyota never disappoints in creating weird-looking vehicles...I think they hired a Puff fish to design their products
Somehow Japan Inc. is on a losing streak with styling lately. Honda Civics look horrible and all Toyotas and Lexii look bad with that giant fish mouth.
@@jeffberwick so truee
That should be the face of the Camry.
Noo
Fuel cell don't make sense, use energy to convert to Hydrogen. And that hydrogen engine will still only be 40% efficient. Not to mention you still need to have regular service and wast by product from the service.
Hydrogen: The fuel that will always be for the future, never the present.
...said the Tesla shareholder.
@@ytj22 - Much better being a Tesla shareholder than a Toyota one. www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-china-breakingviews/breakingviews-tesla-valuation-speeds-into-ludicrous-mode-idUSKBN1Z72ZW
@@douglasbkerr not sure where in my comment I said otherwise, Karen. But apparently I hit the nail on the head!
@@ytj22 I'm not sure you know that word "Karen" means. You might want to look that up.
@@douglasbkerr Will do, thanks Karen.
Don't understand the reason for the short wheel base resulting in a super short and uncomfortable back seat. The fuel cell already takes up so much of the trunk and the mid seat a longer car would've given a more comfortable ride for passengers.
That mirai has a texas license plate. How do you fill it up? Or do you not
It looks like you're driving around california
Almost certainly owned by Toyota Corporation - Toyota moved their headquarters out of California several years ago. Toyota has mobile fueling stations they used while testing everywhere from Alaska to Death Valley.
Can you please investigate why EPA estimate for LXE model and Limited model are so different?
Very good looking vehicle specially coming from Toyota
So what is the point of hydrogen? In it's present state, you get fuel efficiency no better than BEVs AND power output of a 1980s diesel. You either store it under pressure as a highly explosive gas or use electricity to generate it from other substances on site at which point you might as well put that electricity directly into the BEV since the efficiency of hydrogen generation is on par with modern BEVs.
0:19 the Lexus LS in the background
Excellent review! Would be nice if you could get to folks at Toyota and explain more about New, Efficient fuel cells used on the car. With the cut section of the car
What type of camera is attached to the back of the vehicle during the on road portion of this video?
Where can I get one like that?
Oh wow
Thats a nice looking vehicle, far better than the old one
Toyota should put this technology into the Camry!
Make it main stream!
Hmm...RWD... now we can deliver tofu sustainably
Rear wheel drive means that it is used to race.
Wish these came with more power, something in the 250hp+
It has 247 lbs-ft torque which is plenty enough to haul the average overweight Americans.
hp does not mean very much for EV or FCEL cars if you not rely on top speed. Torque is really high and present in all speeds.
hmm, what happens if this gets into a crash and breaks open the Hydrogen cylinder? does it explode?
Yes and also no. In terms of pressure, those tanks are pressurised to 700bar. For context that’s 32 times the pressure LPG is stored at. Those big metal barbecue gas cylinders? 32 times that’s pressure. So in terms of pressure release, there will be an explosion.
In terms of actual ignition, there won’t be a fireball unless there is a source of ignition. Hydrogen is explosive in air through an extraordinarily large range. Between 4%-74% saturation in air can result in an explosion.
I'd snag one if they had a hydrogen station in southeast PA.
On our planet, hydrogen is not an energy source but an energy carrier. It has to be produced from hydrocarbons or water by a chemical reaction that requires energy. That energy could come from nuclear fusion or from renewables. Hydrogen is also highly combustible and explosive when in gas form. While hydrogen is the next leap in technological progress, humanity is not yet energy wealthy enough to make it mainstream. Mirai really is the future that is happening today.
I remember Toyota stating that they wanted to partner with a company to set up H2 refueling stations across the USA, with a 400 mile range and access to green hydrogen - the fuel cell may become a better option for much larger SUVs and commercial vehicles that batteries.
It's not based on the LS which has TNGA-L platform, it's based on Toyota Crown that has TNGA-N platform (the one that should be in new, unborn GS(.
I’d love to A) be able to afford one and B) it be available with infrastructure in place for me
You can easily afford one. It qualifies for the $8,000 tax credit, you pay for no fuel for 60,000 miles. It also qualifies for the $4500 cash rebate from California. After all is said and done it is costing you about the same TCO as a Corolla.
If you don't live in California or Hawaii then you're out of luck of course.
@@homomorphic yes that’s what I listed B). I just ordered a Camry Hybrid XSE so I’m happy with my purchase. This would have been cool. I wouldn’t get a tax credit since I never owe. You don’t get it if you receive a refund.
GODDDDD this is beyond this realm incredible
Ngl, it looks beautiful!
Fuel cells systems fit the chassis of standard cars better so I guess this is why Toyota is able to put this together with only the fuel cell system setup being the real change. Full electric battery cars have like a totally different chassis. Interesting car, if I got free hydrogen for life I’d think about it. Still think FCEV is better for trucks and buses.
Wow, that's amazing technology! And after all the rebates, the car can be as low as $22,000 ? That is INCREDIBLE! That credit and rebates makes it a attractive buy!
Federal Tax Credit $ 8,000
California Rebate Credit $ 4,500
Hydrogen fuel card $ 15,000
Wow, $27,500 off
There's a reason why...
Looks like a decent choice for those who have the access to hydrogen
The Periodic Table designation for Hydrogen is not H2. It is H. The formula for water is H2O, which indicates 2 atoms of Hydrogen in combination with 1 atom of Oxygen.
Have you ever seen oxygen written as just O instead of O2? Both are diatonic elements which means they are not stable until they bind with either another element/molecule or themselves. So in a tank full of hydrogen, you won't find single H atoms floating around, instead you will find a whole bunch of H2 pairs.
The new Mirai lease price is a huge increase over what exists today. Current Mirai leases for $340/month with the same down pymt and $15k in fuel included. Current Clarity offer is $380/month with the same $15k in fuel included.
Best eco friendly car ever.
Looks like a great car. Much better than the previous one. I wish Toyota would use this design on more cars.
Why can't we get fuel cell cars in Australia?
Damn that is good looking.
Zero to 60 in 9 seconds = DOA
How often do you floor your accelerator in normal driving? Toyota knows exactly how much power people actually use from decades of studying it. They aren't going for bragging rights. (My 2010 Fusion hybrid accelerates at 8.2 seconds IIRC or at least it supposedly did when it was new - and I seldom come anywhere close to testing that)
As much as I appreciate Toyota getting this into an affordable price range for many buyers, I’d honestly love to see Lexus get a version of this and re-skin it with their own style, give it a Lexus interior, and have it be the new GS we never got. If they got the range high enough and dialed in the driving dynamics just a little bit more, I’d have it over a Model S in a heartbeat.
It's still strange looking to me tbh, the headlights especially. The shape of the vehicle is gorgeous, but the details are bizarre
They should make a gas only version as a new lexus GS
Too much fun buddy, keep it more tight in the lane 🤔
It’s a beautiful car, the best looking Toyota without question
I think this and the Camry XSE are the best looking toyotas
Interesting about how hydrogen is stored at the station. I assume liquefied H2 allows for more H2 at a given station? I work near a station that has normal gas and diesel and off to the side a dedicated H2 pump. I notice several Murai's in the area but maybe have only seen 1 Nexo. What's the best selling H2 vehicle?
Love the channel, however, one review sounds the same as all the others...Break it up, change monologue. All reviews seem to run together.
I really want to like this car and the current Toyota incentives are soy tempting. However the lack of backseat headroom is real. The limited edition have even lower roofline due to the sunroof. I'm 5'11 and have to slouch in the back rowt to not touch the roof liner. It feel very claustrophobic for me. I don't think this will work as a family car if you plan to drive full size passengers in the back row regularly.
The problem remains that there are not enough hydrogen fuelling stations
There are enough to fuel the planned fcev production numbers. Toyota only plans to build ~30,000 per year for global consumption. As fuel cell costs drop, production numbers will increase while the size and number of stations will also increase. With higher demand for hydrogen, it will become economical to supply hydrogen via pipeline, eliminating the cost of trucking and on site storage. Meanwhile, larger production runs of compressors will drop the price of that component as well. Rome wasn't built in a day.
@@cccharlie1972 so building the infrastructure for hydrogen driven vehicles will take decades to accomplish provided that the petroleum companies do not prevent the development of hydrogen fuel cells that would wipe out the need for gasoline. Unless the petroleum companies get on board with the attitude that its better to join the hydrogen fuel cell competition than to eliminate the competition in order to maintain gasoline and Diesel engines. An enormous amount of money over decades have been invested in the petroleum industry in which gasoline production is a major part of the business.
when will they sell them in Iowa
I still think they should increase the battery size to 18 kWh and get rid of one of the Hydrogen tanks, making this a plug in Hybrid Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle.. PHFCEV.. with about 315 miles of range. That would leave most daily driving to the battery, and all extended range trips would use Hydrogen. Hydrogen fueling stations are currently an issue in that they can only fill so many cars per day. Making it so these cars don't need to fill up as often would be a huge improvement and allow more fuel cell vehicles to be sold. That would certainly add to production costs... approximately $2700 for the battery pack at $150 per kWh at the pack level + whatever other electronics and cooling systems it needs, but Toyota could save money by reducing the fuel incentive. The biggest downside is that this is already a heavy car at 4300 lbs. I can't imagine removing a tank and plumbing would save much weight... maybe 100 lbs... but adding 17 kWh of cells would add a good 400 lbs.
Might actually give them some resale value. As it is, looks like these are slated to head for the dump after the lease period.
I like how it looks. Came here from seeing you on tfl taking about this car.
I liked how the previous Mirai looked. It was original. To each their own .
Nice looking exterior. Arguably the best looking current Toyota vehicle and I’m not a fan of Toyota’s design aesthetic by any means. Hideous IP, particularly to the left of the gauge cluster. What’s with putting the “Fuel Cell” insignia on the rocker panels, directly in the splash zone?
The back is good, the rest is just not that good IMO. I would take clarity though
I love the idea of H2, but would a solid state battery that charges 0-100% in 10 minutes render it obsolete? The rollout of H2 fueling stations is overwhelming but there are chargers all over now.
I think is going to be application specific. Even with soils state batteries, it would take massive amounts of batteries to move an 80k pound truck down the triad even 200 miles. With hydrogen having a lot more energy than any battery for the next decade, heavy trucks will probably use hydrogen. Plus they’d have easy access to hydrogen fueling at home base or at large truck stops.
@@slscamg for reference, it takes the common diesel fueled truck, from a gallon of diesel, it takes like 60% of the energy just to move the truck from a stop........so a lot of diesel is wasted on just moving the truck, but an electric would actually be more advantageous because a truck is all about high torque to move heavy loads, im not sure hydrogen could produce enough torque to be more efficient than that diesel or electric battery....
It is possible, though not guaranteed, that the future will have superior batteries that would drastically cut down on the use cases for passenger cars with fuel cells. But with hundreds of millions of cars on the world's roads, it is hard to imagine there is no room for hydrogen in the mix. There is no way any one such technology could instantly scale up, and plenty of places may not have power grids that can deal with mass adoption of BEVs.
@@alanhorn8253 biggest way I see it is that it could potentially be used like a range extender, but no need for the combustion engine. Would just power the batteries.
Alex, As usual, an outstanding review of a fascinating vehicle. I've read a lot and watched a bunch of videos on TH-cam about hydrogen cars. Most make fantastic claims about hydrogen being the fuel of the future, and that it will make both conventional gas and diesel cars as well as electric battery cars obsolete. Since America has become self sufficient on petroleum, and the largest producer in the world, it seems it will be some time before this happens. Also not surprisingly, Elon Musk vehemently denigrates hydrogen power. He has a lot to lose I guess. I will check out the new Toyota further on the basis of your review. Thanks, keep up the great work.
This mirai is good.toyota keep it this design for the sedan lineup
4:38. That is absolutely incorrect. PEM fuel cells do work in reverse. The Mirai fuel cell is not plumbed that way, but PEM fuel cells absolutely will take in water and electricity and output hydrogen and oxygen.
My guess would be that it wasn't practical in a vehicle. It would have to take the water do the conversion and then under high pressure pump it back into that storage tank. I'm also not sure I have no clue what the rate of conversion could be. You're often not in a breaking situation under regen for that long of a period of time so it may not have been practical in the vehicle.
@@kens97sto171 it would be absolutely stupid to do it in a vehicle. The entire benefit of a fuel cell is that it doesn't need to be charged in place. Having to be charged in place is what makes batteries so dumb.
With a fuel cell the system is in two parts. One fixed system produces the charged hydrogen when there is higher renewable production, and then the other mobile fuel cell has the hydrogen loaded into it in a couple of minutes. By decoupling the charge and discharge cycles the system is far more capable than a battery which must be immobilized in order to be charged and exposes the vehicle itself to the high energy charge cycle (making the vehicle susceptible to fire).
@@homomorphic
I'm fully aware of how both system function. The comment was ..that the water that is produced during electrical conversion in a fuel cell can theoretically be resplit back into hydrogen and oxygen and then put back into the hydrogen tank during regenerative braking. That's what the discussion was about . My comment was that it's probably possible technically but not practical in the limitations that a vehicle has with space and the time frame involved.
The problem with hydrogen powered vehicles is in their entire energy cycle they are very inefficient .
it takes a significant amount of energy to create the hydrogen in the first place and most of that energy is created is from fossil fuels also a lot of hydrogen is source directly from fossil fuels in the first place most of it is broken up from natural gas I believe or methane. And that way a battery electric is actually the more efficient way to go you're converting electricity directly into electricity rather than dealing with the chemical conversions back and forth.
Charging rates on a battery Electric have gotten good enough today that I'm not sure that it really matters. However you certainly are carrying a whole lot of weight around with you and that is certainly a negative.
Hydrogen also has the problem of then requiring that liquid or gaseous hydrogen to be transported all over the country or piped just like gasoline is today only it's a much more volatile substance.
Personally I think battery electrics are probably going to win this race, hydrogen being used in particular circumstances where rapid refueling is of great importance.
@@kens97sto171the proper solution for regenerative braking is supercapacitors. Supercapacitors have exactly the required characteristics. They are low weight and low capacity but with enormous charge end discharge rates. The amount of capacity needed to recapture any amount of braking on a day to day basis is only about 1kWh. The battery in the Mirai is 1.25kWh, but they reserve about 25% of the capacity for battery management (unnecessary with a supercapacitor).
The only reason that Toyota isn't using supercapacitors is that at this time there is not a ready supply of automotive grade supercapacitors, and developing automotive grade supercapacitors would add significant cost to the vehicle at this stage, so the battery is a stop gap. Once they get volumes up to around a steady 1M vehicles per year then Toyota will transition to supercapacitors.
The idea of making the vehicle fuel cell reversible is absolutely asinine, but stating that PEM fuel cells are *not* reversible is simply incorrect.
Also a fuel cell electric vehicle *is* an electric vehicle. It's right there in the name.
But it would then be Self Charging! You'd be using more energy to convert to H2 and O2 than you'd recover in the cell. Much like Toyota's "Self Charging Hybrid". Shame about it peeing water on your garage floor if you don't flush it.
Mirai looks like a big Toyota aqua.
Dream car !!!
How is it living with your hydrogen car?
So does it have a hydrogen heater? That would be epic.
I think you joke, but yes, it does. The fuel cell operates as quite a high temperature, and kicks out plenty of waste heat to keep the car interior warm (if needed.)
"Ohhhh I'm Alex and I have a bunch of cars!"
@@chandlerbing6951
You are tearing me apart, Alex!
Nice
Basically you cannot own this car outside of California
Yes, as electric car demands climb they can add thorium reactors. The rest of the grid is already in place for added charging stations. This fuel is pricey and only has support in CA, and that is limited.
Why does this car have Texas plates tho
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. Period.
Doesn't change the fact hydrogen is more expensive than gas and electricity.
@@user-RCST If it the mist abundant then it's not expensive or will become much much cheaper ahead. Get your facts right.
@@1andtheOnly hydrogen is not the future of cars.
@@user-RCST It is bro...people are going to kick electricity into the can.
@@1andtheOnly wow you're funny.
Anywhere in the world?
If the oil companies, er I mean, Toyota would have pursued hydrogen more aggressively back in 2004, today's auto landscape would be quite a different story.