@JJ E No, Hyundai is already here delivering heavy duty hydrogen fuel cell trucks to customers. Soon other auto makers will also be delivering heavy duy hydrogen trucks. Nikola maybe last one out of gate if it actually survives.
@@springer-qb4dv Also, Toyota and Kenworth made a class 8 truck that's already operating at the port of LA right now. 350 mile range with a full payload
There are a couple Mirais near me and have been for years (Sacramento area) and they are clearly being used as daily drivers. I really think this tech is better for the long range and towing requirements a lot of people require than normal electric. The infrastructure though is far more difficult to build.
I have a new one my self, and drive from Sunnyvale to Tracy daily. It would make my life so much easier if they put just two stations in livermore or maybe two in the Tracy area. For now I always use the Sunnyvale and Fremont stations
We live in the LA basin where the infrastructure is actually decent. There are so many mirais around here. It is a VERY stress free lazy driving style but the trunk is actually smaller than the first gen. Very quiet on the highway snd it actually does a decent donut. Toyota is THROWING cash on these things (23k off msrp plus 15k in fuel) and no maintenance so they are cheap to own and run. Even CPO cars ($17k to buy approx) come woth 15k in fuel
You can drive from Norway to the north of Italy on hydrogen. Norway, Sweden, Germany etc has stations, France is getting there but the high cost of Stations is a problem. To retrofit a gasstation you're looking at 750,000-1.5million euros
I think your questions are bang on. Hydrogen makes so much sense. Way better than electric, since so many states and provinces burn coal to produce electricity, and we have the issue of how long it takes to fill the car up. We should build up hydrogen infrastructure now.
It is hard to believe that hydrogen isn’t the future. Whether that be in E fuels or fuel cells. I think fuel cells are is a better solution than batteries. I would love to see industry make the change from batteries to fuel cells. Fuel cells could also be used to decentralize the power grid. Not my type of car but I am hopeful that we can still have a future with hydrogen and not batteries
I think it may have to do with the marketing. Explaining all the different hybrid systems is really complicated, I think the only company that managed to make any real sense of it was Hyundai, who had an engine powered traditional hybrid, a battery-powered-with-generator plug-in hybrid, and a full battery-EV version of their Ioniq. The Prius doesn’t pull this off very well. The Mirai is just like the generator plug-ins, I think, but it’s not a super easy concept to get across to people. Batteries are simple, they power motors that turn the wheels, it’s not complicated. To me, the utility of hydrogen fuel cell cars is going to be similar to diesel, because it’d be a revolution for semi trucks and it would work for many cars, but it’s always going to be a fringe thing, as it is now being this strange California-only sort of tech. I like hydrogen, but I don’t think it’s going to be the mainstream future, because people are attached to battery EVs now.
@@cordonbloue Yeah, I think one will win out from an economic standpoint, though. Even in a country where every semi truck uses diesel fuel, people have trouble filling diesel cars sometimes. I suspect hydrogen may go truly national some day, but it’ll remain just as hard to find as diesel if not harder.
But why? If you use green hydrogen (renewable sourced electricity used to for electrolysis) then the cost is too high (3X more than running an EV), it you use gray hydrogen (like what is powering the Mirai in that video) it pollutes just as much as an ICE car. Efuels are even worse, first you make hydrogen and then waste even more energy to combine it with CO2. Here is a chart comparing the efficiencies: twitter.com/transenv/status/899976235794788352/photo/1
the infrastructure is coming, you can be sure, and no point in interstate driving, when I lived in the states, driving around in california was huge enough space for me.
I definitely like the new design over the previous model. I wish more companies adopted toyotas hydrogen model so there is more options on the market. I'm looking to get one of these soon.
I love the hydrogen concept! Prefer the BMW Hydrogen 7 with the V12 obviously. Did you know that Switzerland is investing like crazy in hydrogen? They ordered 1600 hydrogen trucks from Hyundai and making hydrogen with the use of waterpower. Hyundai explained themselves you can make it quite easily with solar panels. I have a roof and live in a climate where solar panel work. That would be environmentally friendly, but better without battery packs like Hyundai uses. I mean i will drive gasoline cars as long as possible, but when the time comes and we will be forced by the brain surgeons to go EV or green, hydrogen makes most sense for me. I hope Porsche will crack the code they are working on with synthetic gasoline 🙏🏼
That might have been me driving the opposite direction. The 2021 Mirai Limited is my second Mirai. Infrastructure is a great point but only makes a difference if you are someone that drives to places that don't support it (and Toyota gives you a rental for those trips). I hated the old science experience, but love the 2021 Limited--and it gets me everywhere I need to go without paying a dime for gas. And there lies the reason I purchased it--$15,000 in free hydrogen for your 36-month lease (good for about 48,000 miles of driving). Between that, and all the other governmental incentives, it is like getting a free car. Once those go away, I won't be getting a Mirai again (unless they can drastically decrease the price of hydrogen).
Worth noting that $15,000 hydrogen card might seem generous, but it would only cost $1,500 ~ $2,500 to power an EV the same distance on cheap overnight rates. 48,000 miles is about 12,000 kWh in an EV, they are expensive to buy, but dirt cheap to run. Hydrogen takes 3x the electricity a battery EV does to move the same distance due to the inherent losses of splitting and joining water molecules (if made from electricity) and that completely ignores the costs of compression, chilling and transportation and all the infrastructure needed to do that and deliver it. In reality, hydrogen is mostly made from methane with CO2 released, we make 80 million tons a year that way, a small amount is made from renewable electricity, as far as I can tell, as a marketing scheme for Shell to say their hydrogen for cars is clean, meanwhile the hydrogen they use in refining remains dirty, the industry is not about to move their hydrogen production to renewable electricity unless carbon taxes are implemented to make methane very expensive to use as feedstock. Curious what you are going to get after your Mirai when the hydrogen card runs out - back to gasoline or forward to battery electric?
@@brushlessmotoring all great points on hydrogen not being clean. And true electricity is cheaper than hydrogen-but the massive subsidy provided on lease makes the total car of ownership much better on Mirai. And after the cards and subsidies are gone, it would depend on cost of hydrogen. If their predictions are accurate and hydrogen gets significantly cheaper, then I will get a Mirai. If not…it depends on where I’m living. My current condo doesn’t support ev charging so I may not be able to get an EV unless that changes. I don’t want to go back to gas, but that may be only option.
I'm thinking to get one the rebates are just to good... and also there is a new Hydrogen factory being built here in California which will change lot of the equation.
funfact: I am speaking to people who have next gen hydrogen tech, 800hp and 1200hp supercars coming in 2023, the hydrogen infrastructure is increasing at a massive rate
I bought a brand new 2022 Mirai 2 months ago after many weeks of studying the vehicle. Prior to buying Mirai I test drove 3 other EV manufacturers and calculating cost effectiveness, quality and reputation of different auto manufacturers this Mirai was the one for me. MSRP $52,000 - $17,000 Toyota instant incentive discount - $15,000 free fuel credit card - $12,000 Fed & CA CAV Tax credit + 0% interest with no down payment. They also threw in 10 yr/100k miles warranty. Bottom line I bought my brand new Mirai for $8000! Nearest Hydrogen fuel station is less than 2 miles from my house in San Ramon and there are 5 hydrogen stations within 15 miles. I couldn’t refuse this opportunity. The vehicle looks great and drives perfect just like I expected from Toyota quality. Toyota also provides any 21 days of free rental car for those who wants to travel outside of CA. Also just received Clean Air Vehicle Access bumper sticker where I get to use Express land/ Carpool lane. Don’t just walk away from this great opportunity if it works for you. It worked for me. Thanks for reading and GOD bless you!
Over a decade ago, it was kind of a toss up as to which technology would rule the day. But then a few things happened. Battery tech got progressively better, and lately finally cheap enough to be practical in a wider price range of vehicles. You can charge them at home, unlike other energy sources. Tesla masterfully made owning one cool, but even more importantly invested in the long distance travel infrastructure problem. Now we have any least one brand of cars that can go coast to coast with reasonable recharging stops. Hydrogen still makes a lot of sense. But without the infrastructure issue solved, it will never be practical for the ordinary buyer. And strangely, hydrogen hasn't really caught on with companies that would make the infrastructure issue work, like UPS, FedEx, Amazon, USPS, major trucking companies, etc.
Great video! The future of hydrogen gas as energy storage may still happen. Europe has been looking at using H2 as a means to store excess energy created by solar, wind, and base-load power, to the point supplementing natural gas pipelines with 10-20+% H2 gas. Power generation companies are trying to figure out how much H2 gas their natural gas fueled turbines can deal with, since H2 gas burns differently than they're designed for. There's issues like hydrogen embrittlement, and the one I'm most dubious of, that they would, 1) have excess electricity, 2) enough for electrolysis of water to make H2 gas, 3) use even more power to distill the water to electrolyze. I think it's a load of bull, the there's a lot of companies and regulators who are pretty serious about it.
Love the technology. I think if enough people believe in it. I wanted to get one 3 years ago and settled for a Clarity instead. Toyota has not done much to promote the infrastructure yet but the deal was too sweet to pass. In Orange County there are a few more stations close to us so I got in. I love the car. It drives like a dream. What would work well is if they offered Franchises for H2 to Mirai owners and help promote it at regular gas stations. I think it would be a great business to get into.
High gas prices, low new car inventory, coupled with high maintenance costs for my Mercedes led me to buying 2 Mirai. Toyota is selling these like hotcakes lately. The XLE model is on back order. I bought 2 Limited models for me and my fiance.1) $25,000 instant rebate. 2) 0% down. 3) 0% APR for the life of the loan.4) $15,000 gas card for 6 years.4) $4,500 California rebate.5) free 3 years/35,000 maintenance + too many other perks to mention. Lastly, my Mercedes has me in the shop every 6 months. Had to do it.
At 1:30, why the hell would you compare the weight of a model S to the mirai? The model S is a large sedan, the Mirai is a medium sedan. The Mirai is almost identical in size to the Tesla Model 3, which is 130lb lighter than the Mirai? I don’t get why you’d do that comparison.
EV and hydrogen can coexist. Many would love an EV, yet live in multi-family dwellings like condos/apartments. Japan, Korea, China...it's about their density of urban living. EV success does not indicate hydrogen failure.
The question to me is about how far battery technology can push. At certain point, battery tech will see diminishing returns where more investments in R&D won't turn even higher capacity or faster charging time. Once that point is reached, then we can confidently determine if BEV is a long term transportation solution. I am sure we are very far from this point though. For example, if the best range for certain future battery is 200kwh, meaning roughly about 300+ miles range with less than half the current battery size. And if the charging time for this is improved to half of what it is, so a full charge at a supercharging station is only about 10-15 minutes. If and when the battery tech can to that level (and I'm pretty sure it will get there before seeing diminishing returns), my opinion is Hydrogen car is a no-go. The positive of Hydrogen fuel cell cars is the that the tech is well developed and infrastructure issue is purely deployment based, requiring little tech improvement.
The argument regarding how much energy it takes to create hydrogen fuel, does not take into account how much energy it takes to extract carbon-emitting fossil fuel from the ground.
This tech would make it easier to transition from gasoline cars especially those like me living in apartments without access to a charger at home. I don't want to wait for more than an hour to charge an electric car at a charging station. If only they could build more stations. Hydrogen advocates claim a single station could support 5000 cars, that's 200 stations per million cars. This would be cheaper than electric charging stations to support the same number of cars. Hydrogen cars refuel much faster so the one station will be available for use by many cars. So lets support the tech and ask for hydrogen stations where we live.
How long do we wait until the obvious is broached ? Instead of purging the H20 when the tank is full, have the technology to use that H20 and split off the hydrogen in it to refill the fuel tanks with ? I mean ... it's kinda obvious, even if the answer hasn't been found yet.
In order to store that hydrogen back into the tank, you would need to add a 12,000 psi compressor and supply the energy to run it, this is what the filling station does.
Honda also has clarity hydrogen powered car and BMW, Mercedes also did some work too...but part of the big problems is billionaires making billions on investment in oil and gas fight this form taking off, another is too many TH-camrs keep pushing for faster, more power, more loud noise, so manufacturers Listen to them and not what is needed, another is the billionaires not fighting against this earth friendly technology, are not investing in this. Thanks for your review.
@@normt430 new things have learning curb dude, electric cars existed before Tesla motors and we are still having problems, we've had combustion engine for over 80 years and still have issues, so that piece you are encouraging people to watch is part of the problem, because you and that program isn't part of the solutions.... and Honda will improve on anything they need to following Mr Honda philosophy.... what have you done to fix this growing issue of pollution caused by combustion and fact of electric cars still polluting by plugging into the electrical grid??? I other than finding fault with Honda.
If my friends told me they were buying a Prius I would tell them that’s a smart sensible choice. The only real success story I’ve had recently is my aunt wanted to buy a BMW X1 and I told her to buy a Mazda CX30 instead which she absolutely loves.
Fun fact. Hydrogen is stored at either 350bar or 700bar. In cars they pick 700 bar. Because dencity. Most busses use 350bar. Because it makes the cilinder cheaper. Liquid hydrogen is even more dencity. Liquid hydrogen whould be the same as 1400bar if it was gas. Liquid hydrogen will not be used in cars, as it whould boil off. But it might be usefull for planes where energy dencity is everything, and planes use all fuel in one go.
Hydrogen is not losing the race. It's actually winning the race for heavy vehicles where it has huge advantages over EV trucks. Hyundai is already selling heavy duty hydrogen trucks and many others are on it's way.
I'm hoping the new green deal will address this issue and fund these initiatives, even if it isn't for cars at least it exists and can be another source of energy for logistics.
this is apparently only 17,000 dollars this month, if you live in California, I don´t see any reason why I would not get one, if I lived there, california dreaming days coming back?
Well done that was very interesting it looks to be a good car but I will stick with my prius prime in the whole of the UK we have 11 stations to top up with Hydrogen so unless you live in London there is no infrastructure to use daily my nearest station is a 76 mile round trip to refuel and if that station closes it will be a 145 mile round trip a great shame really as I like the car Thank you
My 2017 fits better than well into my life...these cars are awesome...Not quite sure why you under rate the Generation 1 cars so..I think Toyota did a great job with them...the H2 thing, while slow to develop....IS !...it's well on it's way in California..and getting better all the time..new stations opening every other month now and extending further and further out....there is no arguing that these are metroplex only cars at this point in time...but I have a BAT/ ICE mobile I can use if I want to go further or out of state...in the mean time..I use my Mirai 95% of the time..My Volt doesn't come close to the Mirai's comfort......yet, it too is a great car :)
Yes. You can use hydrogen as fuel for internal combustion engine. However the energy density of hydrogen is a lot less than diesel and gasoline. For similar horsepower and range, you need to carry more hydrogen in terms of weight.
Infrastructure is not enough now that distance is a none issue for electric cars. the price of hydrogen is 6-8 times higher so if I can get an electric car with the same driving distance for less money, I would go with a Tesla, Hyundai Ioniq5 or Kia EV6
It’s hard to compete with the vision and dream of Musk at Tesla. The fact that the hydrogen infrastructure is where it is compared to the expanse of EV stations demonstrates this.
Good video, but you didn't mention the cost of hydrogen, unless I missed it. Recharge your EV at home on cheap electricity or pay a fortune for Hydrogen. This is why hydrogen cars come with "free" hydrogen included in the purchase price - it's way too expensive to be viable.
The price is driven by supply and demand. Today it is on par with a $4 per gallon price, some say it is subsidized and artificial. Yet, the efforts of producing more green hydrogen would eventually drive the price down to as low as $1.5/kg
Hello Motoman TV. Now that you mention it. Next time, out of curiosity ; ¿could you please take some waste water and in the future take it to a lab. They say it tastes bad. Besides Toyota claims, it would be interesting to know scientifically to know how pure actually water is.
More than infrastructure it’s more important to understand how to make hydrogen fuel (pressurized hydrogen) without using fossil fuels or wasting lot of energy. I hate big battery cars. Before an EV comes on road it hurts environment more than an internal combustion car. So it all goes down to how you make electricity that you use for your EV. And honestly I don’t even think solar or wind energy is clean in long term. In fact no energy is clean. Clean energy is a BS sold to us. Anyways it’s a big topic. But I prefer hydrogen to EVs. The last thing I would want is own a car and discuss its battery technology.
Hot take sorta, Tesla killed the hydrogen car. Or the success of Tesla. Then the research money all went to follow and the hydrogen car fell to the side.
So what there’s plenty of electric charging stations, I don’t want to wait forever to charge!! Refill in less than five minutes and go!! Hydrogen is the perfect choice. More hydrogen stations Are being built as this video out.
Its expensive. Cost of hydrogen pet kilometer is even more expensive than benzin. It could be solution for trucks or someone who does a lot of driving but e autos with batteries are a lot cheaper to run
That long 700 bar tank down the middle, breaking up the interior space like a Fiskar Karma -- aweful. And you say the Model Y is ungainly. Unlike you, I can't totally separate aesthetics from utility.
It is not sufficient for Toyota to leave it to the You Tube community to figure out how this technology can be taken forward. This is a puzzle for the national and international leadership to engage with the motor corporations and decide if hydrogen can make an environmental and commercial case for itself. Mr Musk has poo-poo'd the hydrogen concept highlighting the overall inefficiency of the process compared with electricity. Is he correct? Are there wider considerations which need to be brought into the discussion? I am very curious about hydrogen but it is no good Toyota or the other companies launching these vehicles to the public in USA (and exactly the same in UK) when there is such a token gesture of an infrastructure. This is where I feel Mr Musk has stolen such a significant lead over the competition in UK. The electric charging facilities are a mixture of inefficiency and a rip off compared with the Tesla infrastructure - I presume it is a similar story in the states. Toyota should have had one or two of their senior guys on this episode explaining the bigger picture and how they are engaging to make the technology and these vehicles an alternative for Joe Public to consider buying into. For the moment, the 'Pause' button which I pushed years ago cannot be converted to 'Play' as we are without any basis to do so.
Philippines will become a very richest nation around the world 🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎 because of the unending deposit of Deuterium.......more than 85,000,000 barrels deposit of Deuterium every day....
Motto-man, So if GM IS COMMITTED TO ALL ELECTRIC BY 2035?... AND FORD IS ALMOST THERE... DODGE? WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ALL OF THESE FOSSIL FUEL CARS WE'VE BEEN DRIVING AROUND?..... GAS STATIONS ETC. IF WE END UP GOING THAT ROUTE I GUESS WILL HAVE A OVER ABUNDANCE OF CAR MUSEUMS?..... SMH. 🤷♂️
My advice for Toyota is please forget america for a minute when it comes to fuel cells and go after countries like South Africa, China, india, Europe. These countries dont have enough electricity to charge EV's, fuel cells with them would be perfect. America is too hung up on tesla forget them for a minute
@@jackyharuhiko well china is already investing big on hydrogen and yeah ur rite they do have sufficient power. My point is there are countries that can't in no way go the electric route. Company like toyota those are the countries they should focus on first. Hydrogen just doesn't make sense in America
This is an interesting vehicle and a great concept that I happen to think could be better than pure EV’s. Unfortunately, this reminds me of Betamax vs VHS. There were people back in the day that absolutely swore by Betamax and said that it was superior in every way to VHS. At the end of the day though it didn’t matter as most consumers opted for VHS and eventually those that owned Betamax couldn’t find content to support those devices and they eventually went bye bye. If the US Government hasn’t made it a priority to get the infrastructure necessary to support Hydrogen Fuel Cells, then I think the writing is already on the wall for the future of these vehicles. I can’t honestly understand why Toyota even makes the Mirai anymore.
Can they just put hydrogen tech in Lexus and be done with it? Toyota is trying too hard. This looks terrible. Hydrogen cars don't sell due to this stupid design.
Please stop saying and in the middle when you pronounce the year. It’s two thousand twenty one or twenty twenty one. It’s not two thousand and twenty one. How do you write the year? Do you write it like 20and21? No. So why would you add a word in the middle of the year when you speak the year? Beats me.
Great review Motorman. I wish our governments would commit to the infrastructure needed for fuel cell technology.
Making hydrogen uses up more energy and electricity than a straight electric car. Fueling is also not as easy as other easier methods.
If we could get long haul trucking to adopt and the infrastructure appears at truck stops that would give the range for mass adoption.
@JJ E No, Hyundai is already here delivering heavy duty hydrogen fuel cell trucks to customers. Soon other auto makers will also be delivering heavy duy hydrogen trucks. Nikola maybe last one out of gate if it actually survives.
@@springer-qb4dv Also, Toyota and Kenworth made a class 8 truck that's already operating at the port of LA right now. 350 mile range with a full payload
There are a couple Mirais near me and have been for years (Sacramento area) and they are clearly being used as daily drivers.
I really think this tech is better for the long range and towing requirements a lot of people require than normal electric. The infrastructure though is far more difficult to build.
I have a new one my self, and drive from Sunnyvale to Tracy daily. It would make my life so much easier if they put just two stations in livermore or maybe two in the Tracy area. For now I always use the Sunnyvale and Fremont stations
Best review of the Mirai I’ve seen so far. Thank you
We live in the LA basin where the infrastructure is actually decent. There are so many mirais around here. It is a VERY stress free lazy driving style but the trunk is actually smaller than the first gen. Very quiet on the highway snd it actually does a decent donut. Toyota is THROWING cash on these things (23k off msrp plus 15k in fuel) and no maintenance so they are cheap to own and run. Even CPO cars ($17k to buy approx) come woth 15k in fuel
You can drive from Norway to the north of Italy on hydrogen. Norway, Sweden, Germany etc has stations, France is getting there but the high cost of Stations is a problem. To retrofit a gasstation you're looking at 750,000-1.5million euros
I think your questions are bang on. Hydrogen makes so much sense. Way better than electric, since so many states and provinces burn coal to produce electricity, and we have the issue of how long it takes to fill the car up. We should build up hydrogen infrastructure now.
The new Mirai has a Audi A7 /Genesis vibe going on, it is attractive
It is hard to believe that hydrogen isn’t the future. Whether that be in E fuels or fuel cells. I think fuel cells are is a better solution than batteries. I would love to see industry make the change from batteries to fuel cells. Fuel cells could also be used to decentralize the power grid. Not my type of car but I am hopeful that we can still have a future with hydrogen and not batteries
I agree, and also think this will happen....
I think it may have to do with the marketing. Explaining all the different hybrid systems is really complicated, I think the only company that managed to make any real sense of it was Hyundai, who had an engine powered traditional hybrid, a battery-powered-with-generator plug-in hybrid, and a full battery-EV version of their Ioniq. The Prius doesn’t pull this off very well. The Mirai is just like the generator plug-ins, I think, but it’s not a super easy concept to get across to people. Batteries are simple, they power motors that turn the wheels, it’s not complicated. To me, the utility of hydrogen fuel cell cars is going to be similar to diesel, because it’d be a revolution for semi trucks and it would work for many cars, but it’s always going to be a fringe thing, as it is now being this strange California-only sort of tech. I like hydrogen, but I don’t think it’s going to be the mainstream future, because people are attached to battery EVs now.
Ever thought that we can have a future with both side by side. always adapted for the use case you need it for.
@@cordonbloue Yeah, I think one will win out from an economic standpoint, though. Even in a country where every semi truck uses diesel fuel, people have trouble filling diesel cars sometimes. I suspect hydrogen may go truly national some day, but it’ll remain just as hard to find as diesel if not harder.
But why?
If you use green hydrogen (renewable sourced electricity used to for electrolysis) then the cost is too high (3X more than running an EV), it you use gray hydrogen (like what is powering the Mirai in that video) it pollutes just as much as an ICE car.
Efuels are even worse, first you make hydrogen and then waste even more energy to combine it with CO2.
Here is a chart comparing the efficiencies: twitter.com/transenv/status/899976235794788352/photo/1
the infrastructure is coming, you can be sure, and no point in interstate driving, when I lived in the states, driving around in california was huge enough space for me.
FIRST COMMERCIAL FULL HYBRID CAR: TOYOTA PRIUS 👍🏻
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I definitely like the new design over the previous model. I wish more companies adopted toyotas hydrogen model so there is more options on the market. I'm looking to get one of these soon.
Hydrogen is a horrible idea for a domestic vehicle
You might be very surprised by some of the details that nobody mentions about hydrogen
I love the hydrogen concept! Prefer the BMW Hydrogen 7 with the V12 obviously. Did you know that Switzerland is investing like crazy in hydrogen? They ordered 1600 hydrogen trucks from Hyundai and making hydrogen with the use of waterpower. Hyundai explained themselves you can make it quite easily with solar panels. I have a roof and live in a climate where solar panel work. That would be environmentally friendly, but better without battery packs like Hyundai uses. I mean i will drive gasoline cars as long as possible, but when the time comes and we will be forced by the brain surgeons to go EV or green, hydrogen makes most sense for me. I hope Porsche will crack the code they are working on with synthetic gasoline 🙏🏼
This new model looks 1000x better than the first gen. My neighbor had that mirai. Eventually they got an ES as replacement.
That might have been me driving the opposite direction. The 2021 Mirai Limited is my second Mirai. Infrastructure is a great point but only makes a difference if you are someone that drives to places that don't support it (and Toyota gives you a rental for those trips). I hated the old science experience, but love the 2021 Limited--and it gets me everywhere I need to go without paying a dime for gas. And there lies the reason I purchased it--$15,000 in free hydrogen for your 36-month lease (good for about 48,000 miles of driving). Between that, and all the other governmental incentives, it is like getting a free car. Once those go away, I won't be getting a Mirai again (unless they can drastically decrease the price of hydrogen).
Worth noting that $15,000 hydrogen card might seem generous, but it would only cost $1,500 ~ $2,500 to power an EV the same distance on cheap overnight rates. 48,000 miles is about 12,000 kWh in an EV, they are expensive to buy, but dirt cheap to run.
Hydrogen takes 3x the electricity a battery EV does to move the same distance due to the inherent losses of splitting and joining water molecules (if made from electricity) and that completely ignores the costs of compression, chilling and transportation and all the infrastructure needed to do that and deliver it. In reality, hydrogen is mostly made from methane with CO2 released, we make 80 million tons a year that way, a small amount is made from renewable electricity, as far as I can tell, as a marketing scheme for Shell to say their hydrogen for cars is clean, meanwhile the hydrogen they use in refining remains dirty, the industry is not about to move their hydrogen production to renewable electricity unless carbon taxes are implemented to make methane very expensive to use as feedstock.
Curious what you are going to get after your Mirai when the hydrogen card runs out - back to gasoline or forward to battery electric?
@@brushlessmotoring all great points on hydrogen not being clean. And true electricity is cheaper than hydrogen-but the massive subsidy provided on lease makes the total car of ownership much better on Mirai.
And after the cards and subsidies are gone, it would depend on cost of hydrogen. If their predictions are accurate and hydrogen gets significantly cheaper, then I will get a Mirai. If not…it depends on where I’m living. My current condo doesn’t support ev charging so I may not be able to get an EV unless that changes. I don’t want to go back to gas, but that may be only option.
Better to apply to long range heavy haulage. You would need fewer refueling hubs
I'm thinking to get one the rebates are just to good... and also there is a new Hydrogen factory being built here in California which will change lot of the equation.
He must have been a concert director before his current venue.
I have a Mirai and it has been a horrible experience due to the lack of hydrogen fueling stations.
Toyota should put this technology into the Camry!
Make it main stream!
Great explanation of fuel cell tech!
funfact: I am speaking to people who have next gen hydrogen tech, 800hp and 1200hp supercars coming in 2023, the hydrogen infrastructure is increasing at a massive rate
the lower front fascia is too much Avalon, but the backend actually works for me. Short deck-lids always work visually.
I thought fuel cell would be the winner but it had better hurry up because the push for electric is way ahead now...
That’s because there is a lot of hidden problems with hydrogen
what color is the car presented?
I bought a brand new 2022 Mirai 2 months ago after many weeks of studying the vehicle. Prior to buying Mirai I test drove 3 other EV manufacturers and calculating cost effectiveness, quality and reputation of different auto manufacturers this Mirai was the one for me.
MSRP $52,000 - $17,000 Toyota instant incentive discount - $15,000 free fuel credit card - $12,000 Fed & CA CAV Tax credit + 0% interest with no down payment. They also threw in 10 yr/100k miles warranty. Bottom line I bought my brand new Mirai for $8000!
Nearest Hydrogen fuel station is less than 2 miles from my house in San Ramon and there are 5 hydrogen stations within 15 miles. I couldn’t refuse this opportunity. The vehicle looks great and drives perfect just like I expected from Toyota quality. Toyota also provides any 21 days of free rental car for those who wants to travel outside of CA. Also just received Clean Air Vehicle Access bumper sticker where I get to use Express land/ Carpool lane. Don’t just walk away from this great opportunity if it works for you. It worked for me. Thanks for reading and GOD bless you!
I look forward to bumping into you one day at the Norris Canyon Road station 😅 I usually workout at the 24hr fitness across the street
Over a decade ago, it was kind of a toss up as to which technology would rule the day. But then a few things happened. Battery tech got progressively better, and lately finally cheap enough to be practical in a wider price range of vehicles. You can charge them at home, unlike other energy sources. Tesla masterfully made owning one cool, but even more importantly invested in the long distance travel infrastructure problem. Now we have any least one brand of cars that can go coast to coast with reasonable recharging stops. Hydrogen still makes a lot of sense. But without the infrastructure issue solved, it will never be practical for the ordinary buyer. And strangely, hydrogen hasn't really caught on with companies that would make the infrastructure issue work, like UPS, FedEx, Amazon, USPS, major trucking companies, etc.
Great video! The future of hydrogen gas as energy storage may still happen. Europe has been looking at using H2 as a means to store excess energy created by solar, wind, and base-load power, to the point supplementing natural gas pipelines with 10-20+% H2 gas. Power generation companies are trying to figure out how much H2 gas their natural gas fueled turbines can deal with, since H2 gas burns differently than they're designed for. There's issues like hydrogen embrittlement, and the one I'm most dubious of, that they would, 1) have excess electricity, 2) enough for electrolysis of water to make H2 gas, 3) use even more power to distill the water to electrolyze. I think it's a load of bull, the there's a lot of companies and regulators who are pretty serious about it.
Why you guys forget the rear seats?
This is the car of the future. It has auto pilot feature in japan, and able to provide electricity to your household during disaster.
If you ever read your old comments, please review he 2022 fully loaded limited model. I will let you review both of ours if you like.
1 dought Friends. This car which year launching in INDIA
I. .. kinda like it.
Love the technology. I think if enough people believe in it. I wanted to get one 3 years ago and settled for a Clarity instead. Toyota has not done much to promote the infrastructure yet but the deal was too sweet to pass. In Orange County there are a few more stations close to us so I got in. I love the car. It drives like a dream.
What would work well is if they offered Franchises for H2 to Mirai owners and help promote it at regular gas stations. I think it would be a great business to get into.
I'll bite: Why do you think it would be a great business to get into? Serious question.
great show, appreciated, and some specialists are telling me that hydrogen is now the best way to get very high power
Hyundai Nexo is doing pretty well in Korea.
Only take few minutes to fill up, it is fast and good EV except not easy to find hydrogen pump station around.
"hello goverment"
thanks for the review
My Wife & I would have gone for this, Hook, Line & Sinker, the only catch is that AZ has Zero Hydrogen refueling stations.
Would love to see the government start setting up these stations for the East coast !
You deserve more subs. You and savageese. There are very unprofessional channels with more subs and that makes me a bit mad.
High gas prices, low new car inventory, coupled with high maintenance costs for my Mercedes led me to buying 2 Mirai. Toyota is selling these like hotcakes lately. The XLE model is on back order. I bought 2 Limited models for me and my fiance.1) $25,000 instant rebate. 2) 0% down. 3) 0% APR for the life of the loan.4) $15,000 gas card for 6 years.4) $4,500 California rebate.5) free 3 years/35,000 maintenance + too many other perks to mention. Lastly, my Mercedes has me in the shop every 6 months. Had to do it.
Want one. ... Does it come in Hindenberg silver?
No, only battery electric and gasoline cars catch on fire.
At 1:30, why the hell would you compare the weight of a model S to the mirai? The model S is a large sedan, the Mirai is a medium sedan. The Mirai is almost identical in size to the Tesla Model 3, which is 130lb lighter than the Mirai? I don’t get why you’d do that comparison.
EV and hydrogen can coexist. Many would love an EV, yet live in multi-family dwellings like condos/apartments. Japan, Korea, China...it's about their density of urban living. EV success does not indicate hydrogen failure.
The question to me is about how far battery technology can push. At certain point, battery tech will see diminishing returns where more investments in R&D won't turn even higher capacity or faster charging time. Once that point is reached, then we can confidently determine if BEV is a long term transportation solution. I am sure we are very far from this point though. For example, if the best range for certain future battery is 200kwh, meaning roughly about 300+ miles range with less than half the current battery size. And if the charging time for this is improved to half of what it is, so a full charge at a supercharging station is only about 10-15 minutes. If and when the battery tech can to that level (and I'm pretty sure it will get there before seeing diminishing returns), my opinion is Hydrogen car is a no-go. The positive of Hydrogen fuel cell cars is the that the tech is well developed and infrastructure issue is purely deployment based, requiring little tech improvement.
Those low rolling resistance tires aren’t going to help handling. And if you replace them for better tires, you’ll lose about 5mpg.
The argument regarding how much energy it takes to create hydrogen fuel, does not take into account how much energy it takes to extract carbon-emitting fossil fuel from the ground.
This tech would make it easier to transition from gasoline cars especially those like me living in apartments without access to a charger at home. I don't want to wait for more than an hour to charge an electric car at a charging station. If only they could build more stations. Hydrogen advocates claim a single station could support 5000 cars, that's 200 stations per million cars. This would be cheaper than electric charging stations to support the same number of cars. Hydrogen cars refuel much faster so the one station will be available for use by many cars. So lets support the tech and ask for hydrogen stations where we live.
How long do we wait until the obvious is broached ? Instead of purging the H20 when the tank is full, have the technology to use that H20 and split off the hydrogen in it to refill the fuel tanks with ? I mean ... it's kinda obvious, even if the answer hasn't been found yet.
In order to store that hydrogen back into the tank, you would need to add a 12,000 psi compressor and supply the energy to run it, this is what the filling station does.
Honda also has clarity hydrogen powered car and BMW, Mercedes also did some work too...but part of the big problems is billionaires making billions on investment in oil and gas fight this form taking off, another is too many TH-camrs keep pushing for faster, more power, more loud noise, so manufacturers Listen to them and not what is needed, another is the billionaires not fighting against this earth friendly technology, are not investing in this. Thanks for your review.
See Edmund's Honda Clarity longterm costs and down time. It was through the roof!
buy one and stfu
@@normt430 new things have learning curb dude, electric cars existed before Tesla motors and we are still having problems, we've had combustion engine for over 80 years and still have issues, so that piece you are encouraging people to watch is part of the problem, because you and that program isn't part of the solutions.... and Honda will improve on anything they need to following Mr Honda philosophy.... what have you done to fix this growing issue of pollution caused by combustion and fact of electric cars still polluting by plugging into the electrical grid??? I other than finding fault with Honda.
@@artureff3046 I would love to, and also Honda e, but other than looking to find faults in me, what are you doing to help with solutions???
@@TheKingkingg do.you have to leave eariler to ride your bicycle to the market on Saturdays?
If my friends told me they were buying a Prius I would tell them that’s a smart sensible choice. The only real success story I’ve had recently is my aunt wanted to buy a BMW X1 and I told her to buy a Mazda CX30 instead which she absolutely loves.
You, sir, have completed a 'Mitzvah'!
I think Toyota is ahead of the game and electric cars manufacturers might add hydrogen later.
Fun fact. Hydrogen is stored at either 350bar or 700bar. In cars they pick 700 bar. Because dencity. Most busses use 350bar. Because it makes the cilinder cheaper.
Liquid hydrogen is even more dencity. Liquid hydrogen whould be the same as 1400bar if it was gas. Liquid hydrogen will not be used in cars, as it whould boil off. But it might be usefull for planes where energy dencity is everything, and planes use all fuel in one go.
we have a project for 800hp and 1200hp hydrogen supercars, coming in 2023
Hydrogen is not losing the race. It's actually winning the race for heavy vehicles where it has huge advantages over EV trucks. Hyundai is already selling heavy duty hydrogen trucks and many others are on it's way.
Thank you Toyota for not making the updated Mirai look like an egg-looking Prius
You failed to mention the huge dealer incentives plus $15,000 free hydrogen.
I'm hoping the new green deal will address this issue and fund these initiatives, even if it isn't for cars at least it exists and can be another source of energy for logistics.
Hydrogen will never work for the masses in the U.S.
this is apparently only 17,000 dollars this month, if you live in California, I don´t see any reason why I would not get one, if I lived there, california dreaming days coming back?
Plug Power Inc. is expanding at a rapid rate to cover hydrogen fuel cell.
Argentina has been fuel cell for the past 30 years, I think 90% of cars have a fuel cell in the boot now
Well done that was very interesting it looks to be a good car but I will stick with my prius prime in the whole of the UK we have 11 stations to top up with Hydrogen so unless you live in London there is no infrastructure to use daily my nearest station is a 76 mile round trip to refuel and if that station closes it will be a 145 mile round trip a great shame really as I like the car Thank you
My 2017 fits better than well into my life...these cars are awesome...Not quite sure why you under rate the Generation 1 cars so..I think Toyota did a great job with them...the H2 thing, while slow to develop....IS !...it's well on it's way in California..and getting better all the time..new stations opening every other month now and extending further and further out....there is no arguing that these are metroplex only cars at this point in time...but I have a BAT/ ICE mobile I can use if I want to go further or out of state...in the mean time..I use my Mirai 95% of the time..My Volt doesn't come close to the Mirai's comfort......yet, it too is a great car :)
nice video ! but is nt it possible tu use the explosion of hydrogen to propulse the car instead generating electricity to propulse electric motors
Yes. You can use hydrogen as fuel for internal combustion engine. However the energy density of hydrogen is a lot less than diesel and gasoline. For similar horsepower and range, you need to carry more hydrogen in terms of weight.
Philippines will become a Giant Nation
I am not the person that was driving on the opposite side, but I do have the car and would love to share with you what I do with it.
Infrastructure is not enough now that distance is a none issue for electric cars. the price of hydrogen is 6-8 times higher so if I can get an electric car with the same driving distance for less money, I would go with a Tesla, Hyundai Ioniq5 or Kia EV6
Public transportation is where this technology would flourish the most, let's see.
This car mine aswell run on unicorn farts. The average person can access hydrogen fueling with the same reliability as unicorn farts.
You forgot the $20,000 discount from Toyota.
It’s hard to compete with the vision and dream of Musk at Tesla. The fact that the hydrogen infrastructure is where it is compared to the expanse of EV stations demonstrates this.
😅 stark syndrome
What if Toyota could get this 0-60 time to compete with electric cars...
Beautful Car
Hydrogyn and Electric cars are very good, but the infrastructure just is not there,
Good video, but you didn't mention the cost of hydrogen, unless I missed it. Recharge your EV at home on cheap electricity or pay a fortune for Hydrogen. This is why hydrogen cars come with "free" hydrogen included in the purchase price - it's way too expensive to be viable.
The price is driven by supply and demand. Today it is on par with a $4 per gallon price, some say it is subsidized and artificial. Yet, the efforts of producing more green hydrogen would eventually drive the price down to as low as $1.5/kg
Electricity is not cheap in California.
Hey, how does it pee?
Why not just make it all electric with two of those motors for all wheel drive.
I've owned first and second gen cars. The new mirai is twice as good to drive.
Hello Motoman TV. Now that you mention it. Next time, out of curiosity ; ¿could you please take some waste water and in the future take it to a lab. They say it tastes bad. Besides Toyota claims, it would be interesting to know scientifically to know how pure actually water is.
Can we just make these cars without grills that could swallow Lake Erie?
More than infrastructure it’s more important to understand how to make hydrogen fuel (pressurized hydrogen) without using fossil fuels or wasting lot of energy. I hate big battery cars. Before an EV comes on road it hurts environment more than an internal combustion car. So it all goes down to how you make electricity that you use for your EV. And honestly I don’t even think solar or wind energy is clean in long term. In fact no energy is clean. Clean energy is a BS sold to us. Anyways it’s a big topic. But I prefer hydrogen to EVs. The last thing I would want is own a car and discuss its battery technology.
Toyota design think tank team: Where should we put the headlights?
Chief senior designer: YES.
Hot take sorta, Tesla killed the hydrogen car. Or the success of Tesla. Then the research money all went to follow and the hydrogen car fell to the side.
So what there’s plenty of electric charging stations, I don’t want to wait forever to charge!!
Refill in less than five minutes and go!! Hydrogen is the perfect choice. More hydrogen stations Are being built as this video out.
Its expensive. Cost of hydrogen pet kilometer is even more expensive than benzin. It could be solution for trucks or someone who does a lot of driving but e autos with batteries are a lot cheaper to run
Left aileron ( 5:14 )
I noticed that too
Doesn't it cost $80-100 to refuel the hydrogen tank?
Only if the tank gets to empty, but lost people with sense wouldn’t let that happen.
It's still the future ...
That long 700 bar tank down the middle, breaking up the interior space like a Fiskar Karma -- aweful. And you say the Model Y is ungainly. Unlike you, I can't totally separate aesthetics from utility.
It is not sufficient for Toyota to leave it to the You Tube community to figure out how this technology can be taken forward. This is a puzzle for the national and international leadership to engage with the motor corporations and decide if hydrogen can make an environmental and commercial case for itself. Mr Musk has poo-poo'd the hydrogen concept highlighting the overall inefficiency of the process compared with electricity. Is he correct? Are there wider considerations which need to be brought into the discussion? I am very curious about hydrogen but it is no good Toyota or the other companies launching these vehicles to the public in USA (and exactly the same in UK) when there is such a token gesture of an infrastructure. This is where I feel Mr Musk has stolen such a significant lead over the competition in UK. The electric charging facilities are a mixture of inefficiency and a rip off compared with the Tesla infrastructure - I presume it is a similar story in the states. Toyota should have had one or two of their senior guys on this episode explaining the bigger picture and how they are engaging to make the technology and these vehicles an alternative for Joe Public to consider buying into. For the moment, the 'Pause' button which I pushed years ago cannot be converted to 'Play' as we are without any basis to do so.
Holy trunk and hood gaps!
Philippines will become a very richest nation around the world 🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎 because of the unending deposit of Deuterium.......more than 85,000,000 barrels deposit of Deuterium every day....
BEV makes way more sense. This is going nowhere for passenger vehicles.
BEV makes more sense for homeowners with garages. FCEV makes more sense for anyone without a garage.
@@k1fizz it will never exist for passenger vehicles. Meanwhile, charge times are decreasing and access to chargers is increasing.
Biggest waste of money the only car I leased that spent months In the shop due to lack of hydrogen. Glitchy and uncomfortable.
Motto-man,
So if GM IS COMMITTED TO ALL ELECTRIC BY 2035?... AND FORD IS ALMOST THERE... DODGE?
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO ALL OF THESE FOSSIL FUEL CARS WE'VE BEEN DRIVING AROUND?..... GAS STATIONS
ETC. IF WE END UP GOING
THAT ROUTE I GUESS WILL HAVE A OVER ABUNDANCE OF
CAR MUSEUMS?..... SMH. 🤷♂️
My advice for Toyota is please forget america for a minute when it comes to fuel cells and go after countries like South Africa, China, india, Europe. These countries dont have enough electricity to charge EV's, fuel cells with them would be perfect. America is too hung up on tesla forget them for a minute
China doesn’t have sufficient electricity? Yet it’s manufacturing everything in the world. You have to refresh your impression of the country.
@@jackyharuhiko well china is already investing big on hydrogen and yeah ur rite they do have sufficient power. My point is there are countries that can't in no way go the electric route. Company like toyota those are the countries they should focus on first. Hydrogen just doesn't make sense in America
hydrogen fuel cell is the future
according to: China, Korea, Japan
Tesla fanboy: left the chat
This is an interesting vehicle and a great concept that I happen to think could be better than pure EV’s. Unfortunately, this reminds me of Betamax vs VHS. There were people back in the day that absolutely swore by Betamax and said that it was superior in every way to VHS. At the end of the day though it didn’t matter as most consumers opted for VHS and eventually those that owned Betamax couldn’t find content to support those devices and they eventually went bye bye. If the US Government hasn’t made it a priority to get the infrastructure necessary to support Hydrogen Fuel Cells, then I think the writing is already on the wall for the future of these vehicles. I can’t honestly understand why Toyota even makes the Mirai anymore.
Can they just put hydrogen tech in Lexus and be done with it? Toyota is trying too hard. This looks terrible. Hydrogen cars don't sell due to this stupid design.
Please stop saying and in the middle when you pronounce the year. It’s two thousand twenty one or twenty twenty one. It’s not two thousand and twenty one. How do you write the year? Do you write it like 20and21? No. So why would you add a word in the middle of the year when you speak the year? Beats me.
Brother, if that bothers you, you should be watching elsewhere.
You'd have a problem explaining that one in UK. But what would we know about the English language....