The idea of the bearing in the collet chuck nut is, in theory to not twist the collet. On a ER collet there is the front/end taper. When tightening the nut the friction between the nut and that taper will twist the collet when tightening it. So of course it is hopped that the disk placed in the bearings stays with the collet and turns in the bearing when tightening. Also because of that reduced friction it takes less torque to tighten. But that is all for not if you don't take care to keep the nut clean of micro shavings getting into the bearings. Kiser/Big Daishowa also makes precision ER collets and shrink ER collets (The shrink collets I was looking into for the El-Tool 90 degree head. So I could change tools without needing to touch off the tool. The tool wont change length in the shrink collet.). There ER collet line has more size range (I think every .001" maybe?). When gripping a tool in an ER collet (Or any collet for that matter) if you are out of the nominal range of the collet it will not run as true. So with their collets you can get very close to the shank size of your tool. This can be important for say drills and reamers for instance. Also Iscar makes Shrink Holders than mount in ER collet chucks (ER 16,20,30). ER 30 are the ones I use. I use quite a bit of them and the work very good. Even ones with long projections.
I've had mixed results with the ER bearing nuts, I've actually found that just a quality plain nut cleaned and then grease the interface of the collet and the nut with some molly anti-seize works just as good, is cheaper, and has better clearance. Did you ever try the shrink collets? I also thought about using some for a 90 degree head setup for the same reason. And I also agree using collets outside of there specific diameter does ruin there accuracy and holding power. You go from a cylindrical grip to point loads, also if you use a collet at high clamp loads like this is damages the bore then it's going to have run out and loss of hold power at any size.
Have you ever tested the toolholders with collets in SK10 and SK16? These collets have more surface area to hold the endmill as ER collets. I ordered some for fun from the well-known warehouse in China and I'm thrilled! Since then we have been using the toolholders in the company on our Haas DT-2. The tool holders are inexpensive, have a concentricity of 0.003 mm and are balanced up to 25,000 rpm. I think it's worth a try...
I started with a bunch of ER16 and ER20 Tegara holders and they still get a lot of use today. I wish I would have invested more in SK, earlier. Runout is excellent and still provides flexibility over the shrink fits. Thanks for the info as always.
Great information vid... I'm hoping to get a Syil X7 sometime in the next few years (other things need to happen first). So knowing about these items now is a huge help. I also have some Tagara products (6" vise among others) plus their Aventor measuring tools. All quality stuff.
Was there ever a follow up vid part 2 of 2 of the Norgren Adaptix? Got an email blast that they had some scratch & dent they were selling for a lower price …… interested to see some more ‘real world’ use cases, so far only Abom doing a cast car part mod seems to be it.
Noob here. What is your go-to drill for general purpose use and your preferred method for holding them, especially for non-nominal sizes ( e.g. a #7 tap drill for 1/4-20 threads)? Do you get a metric collet set in addition to the standard one, and select whichever one gives you the clamping range you need? I recognize that some drills like Kennametal's "Go-drills" come with a nominal shank size regardless of actual drill diameter but I can't afford to fill up an index with those yet as I'm just starting out. I'm gonna need some way to deal with the various shank diameters.
How bout an update on the Okuma. probably the only one they wants to see it but I use one almost everyday. Also have a robot setup.. My only complaint with the machine is the flood coolant is weak. Not sure why each distributor used different G codes. We use G111 for tool changes and G116 for the tool setter.
I really like ER16 for 30-taper spindles. It's good to have a couple bigger ones but maaan the ER16 is such a nice versatile size. IMO the weldon holders seem a bit of a waste on a smaller spindle like these, since the tool is likely to get bogged down if cutting with enough force to take advantage of the weldon flat. I guess there's exceptions but meh (of course they're cheaper which is nice on a budget) One thing to mention, the 30-taper pullstud is a bit of a bottleneck for extremely heavy roughing... they can shatter like a cookie if the pullstud isn't hardened correctly. If nothing else, don't skimp on those!
The idea of the bearing in the collet chuck nut is, in theory to not twist the collet. On a ER collet there is the front/end taper. When tightening the nut the friction between the nut and that taper will twist the collet when tightening it. So of course it is hopped that the disk placed in the bearings stays with the collet and turns in the bearing when tightening. Also because of that reduced friction it takes less torque to tighten. But that is all for not if you don't take care to keep the nut clean of micro shavings getting into the bearings. Kiser/Big Daishowa also makes precision ER collets and shrink ER collets (The shrink collets I was looking into for the El-Tool 90 degree head. So I could change tools without needing to touch off the tool. The tool wont change length in the shrink collet.). There ER collet line has more size range (I think every .001" maybe?). When gripping a tool in an ER collet (Or any collet for that matter) if you are out of the nominal range of the collet it will not run as true. So with their collets you can get very close to the shank size of your tool. This can be important for say drills and reamers for instance. Also Iscar makes Shrink Holders than mount in ER collet chucks (ER 16,20,30). ER 30 are the ones I use. I use quite a bit of them and the work very good. Even ones with long projections.
I've had mixed results with the ER bearing nuts, I've actually found that just a quality plain nut cleaned and then grease the interface of the collet and the nut with some molly anti-seize works just as good, is cheaper, and has better clearance. Did you ever try the shrink collets? I also thought about using some for a 90 degree head setup for the same reason. And I also agree using collets outside of there specific diameter does ruin there accuracy and holding power. You go from a cylindrical grip to point loads, also if you use a collet at high clamp loads like this is damages the bore then it's going to have run out and loss of hold power at any size.
Have you ever tested the toolholders with collets in SK10 and SK16?
These collets have more surface area to hold the endmill as ER collets.
I ordered some for fun from the well-known warehouse in China and I'm thrilled!
Since then we have been using the toolholders in the company on our Haas DT-2.
The tool holders are inexpensive, have a concentricity of 0.003 mm and are balanced up to 25,000 rpm.
I think it's worth a try...
I have friends that lobe the SK but i have so many ER parts now...i'm pot committed
I started with a bunch of ER16 and ER20 Tegara holders and they still get a lot of use today. I wish I would have invested more in SK, earlier. Runout is excellent and still provides flexibility over the shrink fits.
Thanks for the info as always.
Great information vid... I'm hoping to get a Syil X7 sometime in the next few years (other things need to happen first). So knowing about these items now is a huge help. I also have some Tagara products (6" vise among others) plus their Aventor measuring tools. All quality stuff.
Are you going to get an x11? There isn't much information out there about it.
No plans as of now...but you never know
Was there ever a follow up vid part 2 of 2 of the Norgren Adaptix? Got an email blast that they had some scratch & dent they were selling for a lower price …… interested to see some more ‘real world’ use cases, so far only Abom doing a cast car part mod seems to be it.
Noob here. What is your go-to drill for general purpose use and your preferred method for holding them, especially for non-nominal sizes ( e.g. a #7 tap drill for 1/4-20 threads)? Do you get a metric collet set in addition to the standard one, and select whichever one gives you the clamping range you need?
I recognize that some drills like Kennametal's "Go-drills" come with a nominal shank size regardless of actual drill diameter but I can't afford to fill up an index with those yet as I'm just starting out. I'm gonna need some way to deal with the various shank diameters.
for smaller drills i use either an ER collet or small keyless chuck....ER usually has better holding power and less runout
How bout an update on the Okuma. probably the only one they wants to see it but I use one almost everyday. Also have a robot setup..
My only complaint with the machine is the flood coolant is weak.
Not sure why each distributor used different G codes. We use G111 for tool changes and G116 for the tool setter.
I really like ER16 for 30-taper spindles. It's good to have a couple bigger ones but maaan the ER16 is such a nice versatile size. IMO the weldon holders seem a bit of a waste on a smaller spindle like these, since the tool is likely to get bogged down if cutting with enough force to take advantage of the weldon flat. I guess there's exceptions but meh (of course they're cheaper which is nice on a budget)
One thing to mention, the 30-taper pullstud is a bit of a bottleneck for extremely heavy roughing... they can shatter like a cookie if the pullstud isn't hardened correctly. If nothing else, don't skimp on those!
Thanks for doing this review
Apart of this you told, there are also hydraulic holders.