These are solid numbers, I guess where my curiosity leads me is if there truly is incentive for streaming services to EVER up their bit rate/allow lossless audio. We're the niche of the niche even comparing bitrates between services, and most don't care. Maybe if a service added a premium tier I supposed I'd pay for those. It just feels strange seeing TVs get so much better in recent years only to be feeding them 15Mbps bitrates.
I think the incentive will be there just a differentiator. Quality will hopefully matter to enough people that as bandwidth and tech improves, it will be a feature. Just hope Sony Bravia Core does well enough that these other competitors take notice. Boosting quality to lossless/high fidelity mattered enough in music that the streamers went there, so it makes sense to follow with video content next.
@@ChrisratataI’d be down for a premium bit rate model. I don’t think it’ll happen until prices for 8k tvs come down as most ppl are fine with 4k and won’t notice the difference between the current and higher quality.
Thx for the video👍 My favourite platform is my Panasonic UHD-BluRay Player. Then Apple TV+ and Sony Pictures Core via PS5. The day the first streaming service will deliver uncompressed audio will be a gamechanger. 😊
Excellent look at the different services. I always wondered if there were a way to show bitrate on a video stream, so this was a very helpful look at the different services. Thanks!
Streaming could absolutely support lossless quality audio. It's just a matter of them finding business value and doing it. It's happened with music first, hopefully video follows.
@@Techthusiasm The problem is connecting variable bitrate audio with constant bitrate video. It cannot be done with today's web based streaming platform. You need variable bitrate video AND variable bitrate lossless audio. They can send variable bitrate lossless audio by itself.
I disagree too. It's improving steadily and in a quite good spot right now. Disc is better still, yes, but I wouldn't relegate streaming to pathetic from the right service at all.
I also have to disagree... Ive listened back to back with bluray dtshdma or truehd content compared to netflixs 640 or768kbps bitrate stuff and its Almost indistinguishable to the human ear... so damn close that I was amazed...netflix mention when moving to these bitrates that their goal was based on increasing the bitrates to the point of making it hard to tell the differences between lossless and these chosen rates...sure they could have gone even higher and may yet still do so, but these rates create an airy,highly detailed ,transparant sound thats tough to find fault with...... its the streaming sources still running 448 or worse yet , 192 bitrates that Do sound noticeablely inferior to bluray, those need some serious overhauling.
@@Techthusiasm4K Blu ray can deliver up to 140Mbps bitrate. And you think a peak of 42Mbps on Apple TV plus is good? Who are you kidding?? And the audio. Thinking that 760Kbps is good audio is pathetic. That's just a marginally higher bitrate than Dolby Digital on DVD, which is 640Kbps. A Blu Ray with lossy Dolby Digital Plus can do 1.5Mbps. Dolby True HD on a Blu-ray can do 6Mbps. Do yourself a favor and buy the physical disc. Stop wasting your time on this streaming garbage. If you spent all that money on the equipment at least get the best quality video and audio available to you.
I don’t know if someone else mentioned this, but for Peacock on the AppleTV. Peacock doesn’t support the TVOS match feature, so you have to set your video settings on the ATV to DV 4K and then manually change it back. Annoying.
I’d like to know the bit rates for TH-cam tv, sling, spectrum tv app, direct tv streaming and Hulu live etc. Thanks for the video on streaming services
I may be wrong but when ive checked audio bitrates on youtube 5.1 content its been 384kbps... not bad , not great but certainly passable unlike amazon's abysmal 192 rates
Awesome video. Thanks! Is there anyway to compare the apps loaded on the TV’s versus the same apps loaded on media player boxes? I’ve noticed some differences.
Hey Jaremy! Thanks for the comparisons! I have a question that has likely been asked many times, but I didn't found a clear answer. So, i i'll ask again: Does the Apple TV 4K Box provide better picture / audio quality (bitrates) than my internal apps on my LG C2? Or is it the same? Especially for the appleTV or Netflix app. Thanks!!
I trust the Apple TV far more than I would trust any built-in TV OS. It will consistently have more/better/updated app access, and I can prove the quality and know exactly what I'm getting for the peace of mind. It is entirely possible that my G2 would get the same streams as ATV, but I'll always choose the ATV for these and other reasons. I think this topic is due for a video.
Thanks for sharing your point of view! I totally understand where you coming from. Being in the unknown, doesn't quite cut it for us enthusiasts. I agree, a video about this topic would be great, and i think many people would watch it. Btw: On LG's Netflix app, while watching a movie, you can press on the three dots button on the remote "...", then on information. It will at least show you the real time bitrate in the upper left corner. Maybe there is even more Information to be revealed via the LG service remote. Thanks again and Happy New Year Jaremy!
Great video. Thanks for sharing. How do you think using rhe apps, including rhe Apple TV app, on the newer Shield? Is there a way to access all that file information on the Shield?
This is interesting, but its only half of the analysis. The compression algorithms used for the videos is important too. That said, we appreciate your efforts here!
Nothing seems to have really changed for a while now with the algorithms. You're right though, advances in compression can mean big things for streaming and impact the bit rate to quality relationship.
The Disney plus app has an issue with frame matching though. When you play a Dolby vision movie and go back to the menu the app remains in Dolby vision 24fps. Are you experiencing this as well?
There's fundamental difference what is being streaming with purchased content in the iTunes app versus the Apple TV app. I should make a video to prove this, but I've checked it myself. It's the same.
Great video really enjoyed all the content very informative. I would like to know what you use to get the information off of all the different streaming platforms. Is it expensive? Thank you in advance
Thanks for the interesting video as usual. 5:02 I think there is an error on Netflix's part. They use the qdh1 video codec like the others and not the cdh1 as mentioned in the video.
Hopefully., the compression codecs will get better and better. It's not just the bitrate, it's the codec they use, that really determines the quality. An H.265 stream, will look better than an H.264, at the same bitrate. VVC will be even better.
Fall of the house of usher is surprisingly great Atmos sound. I was super impressed with Netflix. Using a Trinnov alt 16, the atmos movement was pretty amazing in some scenes.
Great video! How are you getting all the information from each streaming app? Is it from the ATV or your TV? I just traded up my old LG LED to a new LG C3 and on the old one I had an info button to push to see what was streaming though it was lacking a lot of information it was better then nothing. Haven’t figured out how to do on my new tv set yet.
The info is accessible with a developer account with Apple and a sequence to unlock the Apple TV. I discuss in this video. th-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/w-d-xo.html
It is a Control4 remote that you mostly see in my videos. Currently, a Halo Touch. You would need to buy from a C4 dealer, but I could put you in touch with one if you contact me. Message to techthusiasm_jp@outlook.com.
Hey Jaremy, thanks for sharing this. I wonder how much the max video and audio bitrate performance is tied to the platform vs the app. I know this takes time but a comparison of services on something like an nVidia shield (where Apple TV+ has an app) could be interesting. It’s interesting times in video streaming and until lossless video + audio streaming is more prevalent, focusing on the current state of content bitrates is important (thank you for doing this). Stepping back, it’s hard to imagine how streaming movies + TV won’t follow the streaming music journey to lossless over time and (hopefully) at more affordable prices than Kscape. What do you think?
It can definitely vary per platform. Amazon fairs much better on Amazon devices, I believe, for example. The issue of measuring other devices is that I'm not aware how to access such direct technical debug info on anything other than Apple TV. I need to research on this. I believe 100% we will get high bit rate and lossless audio in movies on streaming coming up. It's a matter of when, not if.
Good video and info (as always). I use Apple TV+, Disney, Netflix and Prime Video. Must say Apple is still the best but should have more content. Perhaps thee focus more on quality Movies and series compared with Netflix for instance. Happy Halloween!
Thanks for doing these! Happy to see the promising increase in streaming quality across the board. But these are still no where near disc levels. They are basically just under 1080p Bluray bitrates. 4K UHD is in a whole other league. I do agree with some of the other comments that I don't know if the business drivers are there to keep improving the quality as most average users probably don't care. Maybe providers would need to offer "premium" tiers that offer near lossless streaming?
Streaming is still meh for most people who don’t have or can’t afford gig speeds at a minimum. Your tests are valuable at seeing what you can get in the most ideal situations. But I know people who have 200mpbs and kids I think that connection would start to make adjustments to the video in real world. I’m personally hoping that new disc technology that allows for 8K to come to mass production. But that is the one thing that makes me really see the value proposition for Kscape. If we see 8k or 6k movies become a real thing Kscape is best positioned for delivering that content.
Great video. Thank you for doing this. I use the Apple Tv app and ive been reading that using the Apple TV 4k box has higher quality video output so this debunks that and saves me from buying something i dont need
Yeah, they need to improve this. This is why I like doing these face-offs just as is. You get what you get, and the apps perform as they perform, shortcomings and all.
It's honestly a shame that streaming providers can't get their shit together. When u sail the high seas you can stream the full uncompressed blurays, yet not a single service offers anything close
I really like the Kodi using real-debrid and watching redux movies in 4K and HDR are fantastic. Files are up in 30 to 70 gigs and look and sound fantastic on my stereo system and tv.
@@AnkitGupta12 More like private servers. It does cost around $10 for three months service. You can go with one month or 6 months etc.... They do not automatically charge you or anything.
I’m on the cusp of going back to discs, but I don’t wanna spend £300+ for half decent player then £15-£25 per 4K blu ray and not get blown away 😮 I want apple to just allow pre-loading a few GB of a film in high quality into the Apple TV and get it somewhere between what we have now and 4K blu-ray 🤷🏻♂️
I could see apple adding a higher quality streaming tier, similar to what the do for Apple Music to hep offset the costs and i would totally be for that. Can’t imagine this is to far off, just depends on when it can be prioritized at apple.
What is the higher quality streaming tier on Apple Music. I was not aware that there was one. We get spatial audio and Atmos, is this what you are talking about?
www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio "Apple Music’s Lossless tier starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (kilohertz), and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz and is playable natively on Apple devices. For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz."
In the past, it wouldn't have matter on the content between the iTunes apps and the TV app. It's the same and all coming from Apple. I can't test this anymore though now that the iTunes apps are defunct.
Did anyone notice the resolution for the first several were less than 4k? Then on movies anywhere it actually said 3840x2160, the first few were 3840x1600 or 1700. The heck is that?
That's because some services don't encode the black bars in ultra-wide content. If you have a wider image and resolution reports full 3840x2160, that means the black bars were encoded into the image being streamed. If you less, like the 3840x1600 or whatever, then the black bars are not in the stream. In this case, the Apple TV then knows this and renders that area of the screen as black.
WOW Bro! Great video. I still don't understand the SONY streaming service. Surely it would have been better to drop the mbps to that of iTunes and still get amazing picture quality BUT offer Lossless audio. Why is nobody doing this? Is it just not possible to do?
Most digital movies on iTunes that are not in Dolby Atmos are 386kbps and 770kbps for Dolby Atmos. However I just played Tron Legacy with no Dolby Atmos and it is displaying 642kbps. Why is that? Why is this particular non Dolby Atmos movie playing at a higher bitrate?
Older regular DD on iTunes could go up to 640 KBps or so, but keep in mind that is the older encoding codec, not DD+. So even though Dolby Atmos is not much higher bit rate, it is much higher effectively/effective quality because of the better codec.
without bothering you once again I am struggling with a picture problem. When I attach my Apple TV to the AVM70 via HDMI and use HDMI out to send the picture to my LG Oled the picture either sparkles annoying so white sparkles randomly in the picture or just a red picture or no picture at all. I tried everything and finally decided to send the picture directly to the LG Oled and use the ARC return channel for sound. Even attacihing optical HDMI cables did not solve the problem. Same accounts for my Pannasoic UB9000 UHD player. We are talking about a 2 HDMI cables each being about 3 meters(about 10 feet) Now today I attached a Playstation 4. Would not you know. Whatever HDMI cable I use( I bought 8 different UHD 8K) I get a perfect picture in HDR when attaching it to the AVM directly and use the HDMI out to my screen. Any ideas?
I use the same cables for the playstation so it cannot be a cable problem. I used the same input and output on the AVM for Apple tv as for the PS4 @@Techthusiasm
I bought a new TV like a year ago and I feel like the new TV made streaming look worse. Everything seems grainy no matter what I do to the picture settings
Can't say there, depends on the TV. I would say though, just dump the TV apps anyway, and get an Apple TV. TV apps are usually the worst and most of out of date with updates.
I found Paramount+ audio to sound poor. I always have to raise the volume much higher than the other streamers. The audio’s dynamic range also sounds poor on the high end. I compared the audio of a movie purchased from Apple vs the same movie streaming on P+ (both in Dolby Atmos) and the audio from Apple sounded noticeably better.
Can you also give what the 4K blu ray players on these videos provide from a bitrate perspective ? That way we can see how much we are really gaining from the high quality blu ray set ups ?
I bought a ps5 to use the Sony pictures core app and just couldn’t get to work. Talked to support and everything. Tried so many things. Just white screen
It may seem ridiculous, but so many people have sent avr's, tv's and all kinds of equipment back as defective and then they try 48gb certified hdmi cables and it works
Roku has merits and detriments too. Why do you say Sony TV? Just for Bravia Core? TV apps don't help with streaming quality in a projection-based theater room though.
Movies Any where, it’s hdr-10 it’s a different codec format. That’s a both physical and digital solution. And as consumers we should own our media to keep the future alive.
It’s just Apple TV + now huh? Like iTunes is not a movie platform anymore right? I always get confused when watching your videos. I’m just about to get into buying digital movies and I’m really thinking of going through Apple. I almost bought stuff through Apple TV + but you keep talking about iTunes. Is this because these videos are old and do you now buy your movies through Apple TV + too?
No, you can still buy and own movies with Apple. You just access via the TV app. TV+ is also a subscription service within the TV app. Only the apps were unified. The offerings and ownership was not changed.
They cannot add variable bitrate lossless audio to constant bitrate video. Streaming platforms never added the ability to send out variable bitrate video or audio like with KScape or Blu-ray disc and it would probably take a major overhaul of the entire web based streaming architecture to make it happen.
I kind of consider Hulu to be more about the live TV aspects vs. movies, so I always overlook it. Plus, I'm not a subscriber on that one. I'll have to give it a check though.
Actually for movies anywhere. Only sony movies show their films with only HDR10 and 5.1 sound. Other studios like universal and warners provide their films with dolby vision and atmos. I wanted to tell you so you weren't confused by the MA demonstration.
I have Xbox series x with Microsoft wireless for audio, via this can stream losses audio and Dolby Atmos, but this works only on games. Apple tv, Netflix, HBO max app don't support DA on console app.
9:55 The what?! .. MoviesAnywhere you absolutely want this locker service around and without it purchased streaming might end as you know it and certainly prices on the then fragmented services would skyrocket. Also it's owned by Disney, so I don't see it going anywhere soon.
Also forgot to add Movies Anywhere at least on my stuff the App is fully capable of Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. Maybe something needs an update, corrected settings or try different hardware. I have all the hardware, every TV (except the pool and two offices in our home) has a Roku Ultra, Apple 4K 64GB (or newer) and an Nvidia Shield Pro.
.. What you don't seem to understand is that some of these services on their own respective platforms are viewed as a competitor and their Apps and their usability are often modified and nerfed.
I agree the idea of MA is fantastic. I was very happy to see it sprout up in the wake of Ultraviolet's demise. That said, MA has been floundering along for a while. There's hasn't been any significant new studio additions or service clients in a long time. Plus, they have started to close down features, such as Screen Pass this year. We'll see where it goes. I hope it thrives and finds some new resurgence, but we'll see. MA usually presents pretty well in my prior face-offs. Not sure why it failed to deliver in this case, but there's no excuse. This a big movie and should have all the tech available on it.
"What you don't seem to understand is that some of these services on their own respective platforms are viewed as a competitor and their Apps and their usability are often modified and nerfed." I understand that completely, but in today's tech landscape, nerfing your performance on other platforms is incredibly stupid. The service is what matters in terms of value and revenue, not the platform on which it is experienced. Every service should have a premiere experience on every platform they choose to support. Not a mixed bag of lacking this or that here and there.
@@Techthusiasm.. I was very well aware of screen sharing but I never used it. The reason is simple .. why should I pay $20 for something and let my friends watch it for free? The mere fact that it was there would be an annoyance because my friends would ask. I share with my immediate family no doubt, but that's an entirely different situation. The reason there hasn't been much of a change is because the holdouts from movies anywhere haven't changed their minds. Here's a problem, I refuse to buy any movie from any other service than my primary which is Vudu if it's not Movies Anywhere compatible. This essentially stops the purchase in many cases of a third of the available movies. But let's be real. The movies released over the last two or three years have been of considerably poor quality since streaming and COVID. For the most part, streaming with a combination of covid and people's stopping going to the movie theaters has put a real dent in the movie quality. Only a couple few years ago. I would buy several movies per month and now it's gone to several movies a year instead. The reason that I went with Vudu and consolidated to one service primary is because of their disc to video service.
Great news also regarding Netflix. I'm watching quite a few series in 4K Dolby Vision with Atmos and the average bit rate is 19 mbps with 770 kbps Atmos :) All looking great via the Apple TV 4K to a LG C2. Netflix compression algorithms seem to be quite outstanding as over Christmas I streamed 'Office Christmas Party'. It's 1080p HD and came in at a shocking 1.4 mbps!!!!! BUT it actually looked and sounded great AND looked IDENTICAL to my iTunes 1080p HD purchase which is 5.5 mbps.
Most of my movies on Movies Anywhere is Dolby Atmos and Dolby vision there are few movies that are just not mastered in that.. Would you see if Vudu have changed anything with them becoming Fandango at home. I am not in the Apple universe and have no desire to be mine is Vudu or now Fandango at home and movies anywhere with Some Netflix(But I won't pay that "4K" price). I still mostly 98% of the time do 4K Blu-ray so I'm asking for that 2%
I don't see any of the providers going notably higher bitrate as their goal is the opposite, reduce bitrate as every stream costs them money. And of course as they get better with encoding and switch to AV1 (where they were using h.264), they will get better without increasing bitrate. Also, for future bitrate comparisons, I'd make sure you are selecting something with the same ratio. Your Disney and HBO example has about about 1/4 less video data because it is 2.35:1, not 16:9.
That's my fear as well. The only hope is that high quality TVs are getting bigger and cheaper every year, so more and more people will have a big high quality TV in their house, wheremybe some will see and want the better quality stream.
@@floz9718Better quality streaming has nothing to do with screen size. Companies won't base their decision on how many people keep buying larger screen TV's.
When AV1 comes, we will see what happens. I hope we see better quality at the same rates instead of same quality at lesser rates. TBD. The TWiT guys on their Apple show were just talking about AV1 in the last episode with quite enlightening discussion. Aspect ratio shouldn't affect bit rate that much as unused space is black. There's virtually no encoding load to encode black. Either that or they don't bother to encode the black anyway, and they just stream in the image area with actual picture. This video was conceived to sanity check each service, being more service-oriented, than content. I will do more comparisons as we go with specific new movies to get that consistency you mention.
@@Techthusiasm AV1 is roughly a h.265 equivalent, to slightly better depending on use case. There is a Moscow State University 30%-better claim from years ago, during development, that still gets parroted as though it applies to everything but any test that shows that level of improvement was against h.264 and VP9, and hasn't been born out vs h.265. Where AV1 is more efficient is at low bitrates but at high, like 4k video stream rates, it is the same to slightly worse than h.265. H.266 seems to be an improvement across the board vs av1 and h.265 but I can't find a recent, trustworthy article about any recent objective tests. The reason it was made is purely that it is royalty-free, not that it is significantly more effective compression. So the streaming companies can reduce costs.
Those are pretty decent numbers. For consuming content on a TV, streaming is getting really good and the difference to 4k Blu rays isn't that significant anymore for video quality - sound is still lacking though especially in terms of dynamic range. The biggest issue I have with streaming today is FHD SDR content, there the streaming services really tank the bitrate and you usually only get around 5 mbit/s - you definately notice the difference between a FHD blu ray and streaming, whereas with 4k HDR material, most would probably have a really hard time telling them apart in a blind test (with a projector setup it's probably more visible than sitting 3m from a 77" TV like me though).
As someone who finally upgraded their Panny VT30 plasma I’m loving the Amazon prime hdr content via Apple 4ktv on a new Lg C3 55”. From memory I believe this picture is a lot better than blu ray 1080p movies on the VT30. I’m sure the LG OLED has a lot to do with it but I’m not in any hurry to get a 4k blu ray player. Curiosity I’m sure will get the best of me but I’ll enjoy the ride for now.
Excellent video, thank you! I have to say, I feel somewhat vindicated because for a while now I’ve always preferred Apple plus when it comes to picture and audio, when compared to other streaming platforms. I’ve often wondered though if it was mind over matter, but certainly not when it comes to Amazon…. Amazon, audio is horrible!
Need an affordable, entry level 4k digital download service that lets you keep what you buy, without any further support to play the content. Priced to compete with just buying the disc.
Movies Anywhere does decent on the technicals, but it has historically has reliability issues and suffers from a lack of content given that only certain studios support MA.
I know 4K is all the rage and what people are curious about but I’m curious to see this same shootout for just HD content. The majority of content on these services is just 1080p. I’ve heard many times that Vudu HDX is vastly superior to iTunes HD but I’m not buying it lol
So much advanced technology and yet they still can't catch up with optical discs. 4K Blu-rays can reach upto max 128mbps, even a 1080p Blu-rays bitrate is literally double of 4k streaming. Guess we're gonna need much faster internet speed to process that much data and details. When and if once we're able to achieve blu ray like bitrates then that's gonna be game changer.
In actual practice, most discs don't use that much bit rate. I've been surprised in the past how close these numbers are to many a disc when we are talking about 30 - 40 Mbps. Also, keep in mind that HD BD vs. 4K BD compression is different. So 1080p HD BD is not double the streaming bit rate as it is comparing H.264 to HEVC/H.265.
@@TechthusiasmMost of 1080p Blu-rays I've seen have 40+ mbps h264 and 4k Blu-rays going around 80+ mbps hevc/h265. I've even seen the comparisons of same resolution of movies 1080p disc vs 1080p streaming, 4k disc vs 4k streaming stills/screenshots side by side and the blu ray still looks much better with much details as compared to any streaming.
@@PSYCHOV3N0M I don't know 10 but the one I have is Twilight 4K and the average bitrate is 80mbps but it also goes above 100 in many scenes. Am sure if you see more 4K Blu-rays you'll find it going around 80 or more. The specification for 4K Blu-ray allows for three disc capacities, each with its own data rate: 50 GB at 72 or 92 Mbit/s, and 66 GB and 100 GB at 92, 123, or 144 Mbit/s. Especially BDXL ones have high capacity storage with much higher bitrate.
I think folks can cherry pick content to compare because bit rate isn't everything all the time. A bad encode is still a bad encode even with more bit rate. So, there are other factors at play. Still, bit rate over a large average of content, IMO, is a good indicator of quality. I don't agree that 1080p BD is superior to 4K. I agree as well, the actual used bit rates used on a lot of physical media are generally lower than many might expect. In some cases, even close to these streaming rates.
These are solid numbers, I guess where my curiosity leads me is if there truly is incentive for streaming services to EVER up their bit rate/allow lossless audio. We're the niche of the niche even comparing bitrates between services, and most don't care. Maybe if a service added a premium tier I supposed I'd pay for those. It just feels strange seeing TVs get so much better in recent years only to be feeding them 15Mbps bitrates.
I think the incentive will be there just a differentiator. Quality will hopefully matter to enough people that as bandwidth and tech improves, it will be a feature. Just hope Sony Bravia Core does well enough that these other competitors take notice. Boosting quality to lossless/high fidelity mattered enough in music that the streamers went there, so it makes sense to follow with video content next.
@@Techthusiasm- Yeah but we’re still waiting on Spotify to offer a Hi Rez tier. They have been teasing about that for years now.
Im down to pay a premium for high bitrate but not if theyre just gonna be dishonest and inconsistent about how they throttle anyway
@@ChrisratataI’d be down for a premium bit rate model. I don’t think it’ll happen until prices for 8k tvs come down as most ppl are fine with 4k and won’t notice the difference between the current and higher quality.
For peacock you need to force Dolby Vision on the Apple TV. Range match doesn't work on that app.
Thx for the video👍
My favourite platform is my Panasonic UHD-BluRay Player. Then Apple TV+ and Sony Pictures Core via PS5.
The day the first streaming service will deliver uncompressed audio will be a gamechanger. 😊
Thanks!
Excellent look at the different services. I always wondered if there were a way to show bitrate on a video stream, so this was a very helpful look at the different services. Thanks!
Thanks!
Why is audio not lossless? I don’t really understand. Compared to video it’s not huge data. Does anyone know what the bottleneck is?
Streaming could absolutely support lossless quality audio. It's just a matter of them finding business value and doing it. It's happened with music first, hopefully video follows.
@@Techthusiasm The problem is connecting variable bitrate audio with constant bitrate video. It cannot be done with today's web based streaming platform. You need variable bitrate video AND variable bitrate lossless audio. They can send variable bitrate lossless audio by itself.
It's not constant bit rate video - it's variable too! @@dan_hitchman007
How do these rates compare to 4K discs
Check out this video for that info. th-cam.com/video/lXz8mCjHLOQ/w-d-xo.html :)
"kaleidescape" is better than 4k discs!!!
About half, at best.
How does 4K Streaming compare to 1080p blu ray. Which looks better, @Techthusiasm
I'd take a 4K stream in HDR on a good provider like Apple over a 1080p disc every time.
The quality of streaming is still pretty pathetic compared to a well produced Blu-ray or 4k Blu-ray disc.
I disagree. ATV+ or 4K iTunes can look absolutely stunning!
@@BarcelonasHotCrowd Not on a front projection system. On a smaller display maybe.
I disagree too. It's improving steadily and in a quite good spot right now. Disc is better still, yes, but I wouldn't relegate streaming to pathetic from the right service at all.
I also have to disagree... Ive listened back to back with bluray dtshdma or truehd content compared to netflixs 640 or768kbps bitrate stuff and its Almost indistinguishable to the human ear... so damn close that I was amazed...netflix mention when moving to these bitrates that their goal was based on increasing the bitrates to the point of making it hard to tell the differences between lossless and these chosen rates...sure they could have gone even higher and may yet still do so, but these rates create an airy,highly detailed ,transparant sound thats
tough to find fault with...... its the streaming sources still running 448 or worse yet , 192 bitrates that Do sound noticeablely inferior to bluray, those need some serious overhauling.
@@Techthusiasm4K Blu ray can deliver up to 140Mbps bitrate.
And you think a peak of 42Mbps on Apple TV plus is good?
Who are you kidding??
And the audio.
Thinking that 760Kbps is good audio is pathetic. That's just a marginally higher bitrate than Dolby Digital on DVD, which is 640Kbps.
A Blu Ray with lossy Dolby Digital Plus can do 1.5Mbps.
Dolby True HD on a Blu-ray can do 6Mbps.
Do yourself a favor and buy the physical disc. Stop wasting your time on this streaming garbage.
If you spent all that money on the equipment at least get the best quality video and audio available to you.
I don’t know if someone else mentioned this, but for Peacock on the AppleTV. Peacock doesn’t support the TVOS match feature, so you have to set your video settings on the ATV to DV 4K and then manually change it back. Annoying.
Extremely annoying when my 4K Roku stick offers frame matching for those same apps.
Peacock needs some engineering work. Hope it gets it.
I’d like to know the bit rates for TH-cam tv, sling, spectrum tv app, direct tv streaming and Hulu live etc. Thanks for the video on streaming services
Noted. I'll see what I can do.
I may be wrong but when ive checked audio bitrates on youtube 5.1 content its been 384kbps... not bad , not great but certainly passable unlike amazon's abysmal 192 rates
DirecTV Stream is the video king right now.
I used DTV Stream for a while in the various early names/versions, until I switched to TH-cam TV. I haven't check back in on it in a while though.
Awesome video. Thanks! Is there anyway to compare the apps loaded on the TV’s versus the same apps loaded on media player boxes? I’ve noticed some differences.
I'm not aware of ways to measure quality on devices other than the Apple TV.
Just curious. Does rental vs buy make a difference in what is sent down in the stream?
To my knowledge, no.
Thanks for the video ! Could you do a TH-cam TV, Fubo, Hulu TV, etc quality video ?
Yah I want to cut the cord on Black Friday weekend and want to pick 1 of those 3 for streaming.
I'm a TH-cam TV subscriber and really like it. Content request noted.
@@Techthusiasm I am big sport fan so leaning towards Fubo.
Waiting to see the BLACK FRIDAY promotions.
@@Techthusiasm I am a YT TV sub also but did a trial of Fubo and the quality "seemed" better but wondered if it is.
Hey Jaremy! Thanks for the comparisons! I have a question that has likely been asked many times, but I didn't found a clear answer. So, i i'll ask again:
Does the Apple TV 4K Box provide better picture / audio quality (bitrates) than my internal apps on my LG C2? Or is it the same? Especially for the appleTV or Netflix app. Thanks!!
I trust the Apple TV far more than I would trust any built-in TV OS. It will consistently have more/better/updated app access, and I can prove the quality and know exactly what I'm getting for the peace of mind. It is entirely possible that my G2 would get the same streams as ATV, but I'll always choose the ATV for these and other reasons. I think this topic is due for a video.
Thanks for sharing your point of view! I totally understand where you coming from. Being in the unknown, doesn't quite cut it for us enthusiasts. I agree, a video about this topic would be great, and i think many people would watch it.
Btw: On LG's Netflix app, while watching a movie, you can press on the three dots button on the remote "...", then on information. It will at least show you the real time bitrate in the upper left corner. Maybe there is even more Information to be revealed via the LG service remote.
Thanks again and Happy New Year Jaremy!
I'll have to try that on my LG.
Quick question on Paramount+, is it the app or is it the Apple channel?
I was using the Paramount+ app directly.
Great video. Thanks for sharing. How do you think using rhe apps, including rhe Apple TV app, on the newer Shield? Is there a way to access all that file information on the Shield?
I think it's fine if you prefer the Shield. You can't get this info on the Shield though. It's a developer feature of the Apple TV itself.
@@Techthusiasm I do prefer using the Shield over the apps on my LG OLED, since it has great upscaling.
This is interesting, but its only half of the analysis. The compression algorithms used for the videos is important too.
That said, we appreciate your efforts here!
Nothing seems to have really changed for a while now with the algorithms. You're right though, advances in compression can mean big things for streaming and impact the bit rate to quality relationship.
I believe everyone of those streaming services as well as Blu-ray uses H.264. THere can be some varrience but it is pretty apples to apples.
The Disney plus app has an issue with frame matching though. When you play a Dolby vision movie and go back to the menu the app remains in Dolby vision 24fps. Are you experiencing this as well?
Hmm, I haven't noticed, but I'll try to pay attention for that.
How do you see this streaming information? Is it built in your TV or where does that feature come from?
It is in a developer menu. I explain it here. th-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/w-d-xo.html
Great video, how do you get the developer options
There's a video in the Apple TV playlist that discusses how.
does the bitrate remain the same if you watch iTunes purchased content via the TV app instead of the iTunes app??
There's fundamental difference what is being streaming with purchased content in the iTunes app versus the Apple TV app. I should make a video to prove this, but I've checked it myself. It's the same.
How are you getting al this info can I do this on my 4K Apple TV ?
Developer debug menu.
Great video. I’ve been waiting for someone to do exactly this for so long.
Glad you liked it!
Great video really enjoyed all the content very informative. I would like to know what you use to get the information off of all the different streaming platforms. Is it expensive? Thank you in advance
It's from using the Apple developer menu. th-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/w-d-xo.html
Thank you. Looking forward to more content!
Thanks for the interesting video as usual.
5:02 I think there is an error on Netflix's part. They use the qdh1 video codec like the others and not the cdh1 as mentioned in the video.
What remote is that in your hand? Looks fancy
It is a Control4 Halo. Very nice!
Hopefully., the compression codecs will get better and better. It's not just the bitrate, it's the codec they use, that really determines the quality. An H.265 stream, will look better than an H.264, at the same bitrate. VVC will be even better.
Apple use it own codecs qdh1 and qhvc for th 4k.
Right, but codec use has been stable for a while. We'll see if and when that changes.
VVC hopefully becomes standard in 4 years
Fall of the house of usher is surprisingly great Atmos sound. I was super impressed with Netflix. Using a Trinnov alt 16, the atmos movement was pretty amazing in some scenes.
Nice!
Those storm sounds rolling in were great on my Atmos system as well….
How did you enable this specification/codec viewer settings, which tv is this how to enable please help me,
There's a video on the channel showing how to access the developer menu.
@@Techthusiasm oh u enable it in apple tv? I only had sony Bravia amd firetvstick 4k,i can enable it on firetv.but on my Sony i cant
Great video! How are you getting all the information from each streaming app? Is it from the ATV or your TV? I just traded up my old LG LED to a new LG C3 and on the old one I had an info button to push to see what was streaming though it was lacking a lot of information it was better then nothing. Haven’t figured out how to do on my new tv set yet.
The info is accessible with a developer account with Apple and a sequence to unlock the Apple TV. I discuss in this video. th-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/w-d-xo.html
@@Techthusiasm Great thank you!
Peacock on the AppleTV not displaying DV is unique to the AppleTV, not sure who is at fault, but I get Dolby Vision on my LG WebOS Peacock app.
Fix your stuff, Peacock!
Was the Apple TV hardwired Ethernet connected? I might have missed it if you said
Yes. I hardware pretty much all my stuff.
Hi, I love your videos. Is that remote a universal remote? Where can I get that
It is a Control4 remote that you mostly see in my videos. Currently, a Halo Touch. You would need to buy from a C4 dealer, but I could put you in touch with one if you contact me. Message to techthusiasm_jp@outlook.com.
Thought Sony Bravia core for PS5 is NOT the premium bit rate streams for PS5. It is not the PureStream 80mB+ …just standard Bravia core hdr streams.
That's pretty lame on Sony's part if so. I expected the high fidelity.
@@Techthusiasm
*S* oon
*O* nly
*N* ot
*Y* et
LOL, that's funny. Describes my former X900H TV perfectly.
Hey Jaremy, thanks for sharing this. I wonder how much the max video and audio bitrate performance is tied to the platform vs the app. I know this takes time but a comparison of services on something like an nVidia shield (where Apple TV+ has an app) could be interesting.
It’s interesting times in video streaming and until lossless video + audio streaming is more prevalent, focusing on the current state of content bitrates is important (thank you for doing this). Stepping back, it’s hard to imagine how streaming movies + TV won’t follow the streaming music journey to lossless over time and (hopefully) at more affordable prices than Kscape.
What do you think?
It can definitely vary per platform. Amazon fairs much better on Amazon devices, I believe, for example. The issue of measuring other devices is that I'm not aware how to access such direct technical debug info on anything other than Apple TV. I need to research on this.
I believe 100% we will get high bit rate and lossless audio in movies on streaming coming up. It's a matter of when, not if.
Oh wow that would be excellent! If you have confidence that will happen, then that is a great sign :)
@@Techthusiasm
Are you using an Apple tv forbyourbtesting, and how can someone be able to see the bitrate info?
Yes, I am testing on Apple TV. To see this info, you need to be an Apple developer and unlock the box in developer mode.
Good video and info (as always). I use Apple TV+, Disney, Netflix and Prime Video. Must say Apple is still the best but should have more content. Perhaps thee focus more on quality Movies and series compared with Netflix for instance. Happy Halloween!
Thanks!
What do you use to monitor the bitrate and other info?
Is that a different app or built in feature in your TV???
It's a developer feature of the Apple TV.
@@Techthusiasm Got it. Thanks 👍🏻
I have Apple TV and can not find the developer feature. Where is it. Thanks, great video
There's a process to get access to the menu. Check out this video on how. th-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for doing these! Happy to see the promising increase in streaming quality across the board. But these are still no where near disc levels. They are basically just under 1080p Bluray bitrates. 4K UHD is in a whole other league.
I do agree with some of the other comments that I don't know if the business drivers are there to keep improving the quality as most average users probably don't care. Maybe providers would need to offer "premium" tiers that offer near lossless streaming?
Keep in mind HD Blu-ray uses a different and less effective compression scheme than 4K content, so those numbers are not a direct comparison.
Funny you mention a premium tier. I spoke to a post production executive at Netflix about this exact same thing.
Streaming is still meh for most people who don’t have or can’t afford gig speeds at a minimum. Your tests are valuable at seeing what you can get in the most ideal situations. But I know people who have 200mpbs and kids I think that connection would start to make adjustments to the video in real world.
I’m personally hoping that new disc technology that allows for 8K to come to mass production. But that is the one thing that makes me really see the value proposition for Kscape. If we see 8k or 6k movies become a real thing Kscape is best positioned for delivering that content.
We'll see what happens with 8K. Definitely, streaming is challenge if you don't have the tech for it. My internet and setup is very fast and stable.
Great video. Thank you for doing this. I use the Apple Tv app and ive been reading that using the Apple TV 4k box has higher quality video output so this debunks that and saves me from buying something i dont need
Glad it helped!
Peacock has to be manually switched to dolby vision 24, auto switching does not work on apple TV
Yeah, they need to improve this. This is why I like doing these face-offs just as is. You get what you get, and the apps perform as they perform, shortcomings and all.
Please advise about TH-cam TV…do you have the data?
I'll look to cover this in a future video.
DirecTV Stream is better PQ currently.
@@eddiewyatt66 Have not heard of Direct Tv Stream? Will look it up. Wonder if it has as many channels as TH-cam tv?
What are you using to display the codec information on your tv. I’ve looked for an app for my Nvidia Shield and could find one
Apple TV has a developer feature.
It's an Apple TV in developer mode.
Would love to see the Audio be lossless, it would only add like 3Mbs.
It's a little more than that, in some cases, but I agree. There's no reason it won't work. The bandwidth is available to do it.
It's honestly a shame that streaming providers can't get their shit together. When u sail the high seas you can stream the full uncompressed blurays, yet not a single service offers anything close
I really like the Kodi using real-debrid and watching redux movies in 4K and HDR are fantastic. Files are up in 30 to 70 gigs and look and sound fantastic on my stereo system and tv.
Hey, i heard about real-debrid, is it like private trackers?
@@AnkitGupta12 More like private servers. It does cost around $10 for three months service. You can go with one month or 6 months etc.... They do not automatically charge you or anything.
Good job!
Thanks! If you ever want to talk video quality, streaming, disc, Kaleidescape, or any of that stuff together, let me know!
How are you getting this info on screen???
Like this. th-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/w-d-xo.html
Thank you 👍
can anyone tell how to view these video streaming stats on Google Tv, i have a sony bravia 80K
Happy i've built a plex 4k library with my nvidia shield pro paired with a samsung s95b
Excellent!
I’m on the cusp of going back to discs, but I don’t wanna spend £300+ for half decent player then £15-£25 per 4K blu ray and not get blown away 😮 I want apple to just allow pre-loading a few GB of a film in high quality into the Apple TV and get it somewhere between what we have now and 4K blu-ray 🤷🏻♂️
I could see apple adding a higher quality streaming tier, similar to what the do for Apple Music to hep offset the costs and i would totally be for that. Can’t imagine this is to far off, just depends on when it can be prioritized at apple.
I would pay for it!
What is the higher quality streaming tier on Apple Music. I was not aware that there was one. We get spatial audio and Atmos, is this what you are talking about?
www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/05/apple-music-announces-spatial-audio-and-lossless-audio
"Apple Music’s Lossless tier starts at CD quality, which is 16 bit at 44.1 kHz (kilohertz), and goes up to 24 bit at 48 kHz and is playable natively on Apple devices. For the true audiophile, Apple Music also offers Hi-Resolution Lossless all the way up to 24 bit at 192 kHz."
I think amazon prime only offers Dolby features with their ad-free tier
Can you make a comparison with killers of the flower moon on itunes and appleTV+? Is it the same bitrate?
In the past, it wouldn't have matter on the content between the iTunes apps and the TV app. It's the same and all coming from Apple. I can't test this anymore though now that the iTunes apps are defunct.
Sorry to be off topic but what kind of remote is that?
It is a Control4 Halo. th-cam.com/video/Y0UQq9VRoc4/w-d-xo.html
Did anyone notice the resolution for the first several were less than 4k? Then on movies anywhere it actually said 3840x2160, the first few were 3840x1600 or 1700. The heck is that?
That's because some services don't encode the black bars in ultra-wide content. If you have a wider image and resolution reports full 3840x2160, that means the black bars were encoded into the image being streamed. If you less, like the 3840x1600 or whatever, then the black bars are not in the stream. In this case, the Apple TV then knows this and renders that area of the screen as black.
WOW Bro! Great video. I still don't understand the SONY streaming service. Surely it would have been better to drop the mbps to that of iTunes and still get amazing picture quality BUT offer Lossless audio. Why is nobody doing this? Is it just not possible to do?
Thanks! I hope lossless audio streaming with movies happens someday.
Most digital movies on iTunes that are not in Dolby Atmos are 386kbps and 770kbps for Dolby Atmos. However I just played Tron Legacy with no Dolby Atmos and it is displaying 642kbps. Why is that? Why is this particular non Dolby Atmos movie playing at a higher bitrate?
Older regular DD on iTunes could go up to 640 KBps or so, but keep in mind that is the older encoding codec, not DD+. So even though Dolby Atmos is not much higher bit rate, it is much higher effectively/effective quality because of the better codec.
@@Techthusiasm I didn’t know that, thank you!
What about comparing same apps vs different streamers? Like the top version of each: Apple TV vs Nvidia Shield vs Firecube vs Roku?
It's not easy or in some cases possible to get similar details on each box like I can with the Apple TV.
without bothering you once again I am struggling with a picture problem. When I attach my Apple TV to the AVM70 via HDMI and use HDMI out to send the picture to my LG Oled the picture either sparkles annoying so white sparkles randomly in the picture or just a red picture or no picture at all. I tried everything and finally decided to send the picture directly to the LG Oled and use the ARC return channel for sound. Even attacihing optical HDMI cables did not solve the problem. Same accounts for my Pannasoic UB9000 UHD player. We are talking about a 2 HDMI cables each being about 3 meters(about 10 feet)
Now today I attached a Playstation 4. Would not you know. Whatever HDMI cable I use( I bought 8 different UHD 8K) I get a perfect picture in HDR when attaching it to the AVM directly and use the HDMI out to my screen.
Any ideas?
Sounds like bad HDMI cables, overall, IMO. Or something wrong with the HDMI board in the AVM.
I use the same cables for the playstation so it cannot be a cable problem. I used the same input and output on the AVM for Apple tv as for the PS4
@@Techthusiasm
I love that you are focusing on this in your video. TH-cam premium now gives users premium bitrate. So awesome to see.
I need to quality check the TH-cam streams coming up.
Yes. Please compare TH-camTV to DirecTV Stream. Wondering if TH-camTV has caught up.
I bought a new TV like a year ago and I feel like the new TV made streaming look worse. Everything seems grainy no matter what I do to the picture settings
Can't say there, depends on the TV. I would say though, just dump the TV apps anyway, and get an Apple TV. TV apps are usually the worst and most of out of date with updates.
@Techthusiasm I'm starting to think it maybe my ethernet cable. Going to buy a new one and will see if it corrects it.
I found Paramount+ audio to sound poor. I always have to raise the volume much higher than the other streamers. The audio’s dynamic range also sounds poor on the high end. I compared the audio of a movie purchased from Apple vs the same movie streaming on P+ (both in Dolby Atmos) and the audio from Apple sounded noticeably better.
Yeah, Paramount+ is kind of mid.
Can you also give what the 4K blu ray players on these videos provide from a bitrate perspective ?
That way we can see how much we are really gaining from the high quality blu ray set ups ?
Check out this video! th-cam.com/video/lXz8mCjHLOQ/w-d-xo.html
I bought a ps5 to use the Sony pictures core app and just couldn’t get to work. Talked to support and everything. Tried so many things. Just white screen
It may seem ridiculous, but so many people have sent avr's, tv's and all kinds of equipment back as defective and then they try 48gb certified hdmi cables and it works
A Bravia google tv and roku ultra together are best to switch between than apple 4k streamer bro.
Roku has merits and detriments too. Why do you say Sony TV? Just for Bravia Core? TV apps don't help with streaming quality in a projection-based theater room though.
Great video!
Are you open to make a video like this for music streaming services?
I can think about it, for sure. Thanks!
Movies Any where, it’s hdr-10 it’s a different codec format. That’s a both physical and digital solution. And as consumers we should own our media to keep the future alive.
Great vid glad to see these types of vids again.
Thanks! Noted!
4K Blu Ray is Better if you want the best picture and sound.
Can you add Movies Anywhere and Sony Core to this list to compare ?! Please!
Movies Anywhere is in there. I'd love to do high bit rate Sony Core once I have some access to it, for sure!
@@Techthusiasm Ahhh idk how I missed that. Looking forward to any additional services!
Love this topic. Thank you Jarmey for the update.
You're welcome!
What about movies on TH-cam?
Haven't test that yet, but I need to.
It’s just Apple TV + now huh? Like iTunes is not a movie platform anymore right? I always get confused when watching your videos. I’m just about to get into buying digital movies and I’m really thinking of going through Apple. I almost bought stuff through Apple TV + but you keep talking about iTunes. Is this because these videos are old and do you now buy your movies through Apple TV + too?
No, you can still buy and own movies with Apple. You just access via the TV app. TV+ is also a subscription service within the TV app. Only the apps were unified. The offerings and ownership was not changed.
They cannot add variable bitrate lossless audio to constant bitrate video. Streaming platforms never added the ability to send out variable bitrate video or audio like with KScape or Blu-ray disc and it would probably take a major overhaul of the entire web based streaming architecture to make it happen.
Video is VBR too on iTunes etc
@@BarcelonasHotCrowd The underlying data is CBR. It's not behaving like Blu-ray AV data.
No Hulu ?
I kind of consider Hulu to be more about the live TV aspects vs. movies, so I always overlook it. Plus, I'm not a subscriber on that one. I'll have to give it a check though.
Actually for movies anywhere. Only sony movies show their films with only HDR10 and 5.1 sound. Other studios like universal and warners provide their films with dolby vision and atmos. I wanted to tell you so you weren't confused by the MA demonstration.
I have Xbox series x with Microsoft wireless for audio, via this can stream losses audio and Dolby Atmos, but this works only on games. Apple tv, Netflix, HBO max app don't support DA on console app.
9:55 The what?! .. MoviesAnywhere you absolutely want this locker service around and without it purchased streaming might end as you know it and certainly prices on the then fragmented services would skyrocket. Also it's owned by Disney, so I don't see it going anywhere soon.
Also forgot to add Movies Anywhere at least on my stuff the App is fully capable of Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos. Maybe something needs an update, corrected settings or try different hardware.
I have all the hardware, every TV (except the pool and two offices in our home) has a Roku Ultra, Apple 4K 64GB (or newer) and an Nvidia Shield Pro.
.. What you don't seem to understand is that some of these services on their own respective platforms are viewed as a competitor and their Apps and their usability are often modified and nerfed.
I agree the idea of MA is fantastic. I was very happy to see it sprout up in the wake of Ultraviolet's demise. That said, MA has been floundering along for a while. There's hasn't been any significant new studio additions or service clients in a long time. Plus, they have started to close down features, such as Screen Pass this year. We'll see where it goes. I hope it thrives and finds some new resurgence, but we'll see.
MA usually presents pretty well in my prior face-offs. Not sure why it failed to deliver in this case, but there's no excuse. This a big movie and should have all the tech available on it.
"What you don't seem to understand is that some of these services on their own respective platforms are viewed as a competitor and their Apps and their usability are often modified and nerfed."
I understand that completely, but in today's tech landscape, nerfing your performance on other platforms is incredibly stupid. The service is what matters in terms of value and revenue, not the platform on which it is experienced. Every service should have a premiere experience on every platform they choose to support. Not a mixed bag of lacking this or that here and there.
@@Techthusiasm.. I was very well aware of screen sharing but I never used it. The reason is simple .. why should I pay $20 for something and let my friends watch it for free? The mere fact that it was there would be an annoyance because my friends would ask. I share with my immediate family no doubt, but that's an entirely different situation. The reason there hasn't been much of a change is because the holdouts from movies anywhere haven't changed their minds.
Here's a problem, I refuse to buy any movie from any other service than my primary which is Vudu if it's not Movies Anywhere compatible. This essentially stops the purchase in many cases of a third of the available movies. But let's be real. The movies released over the last two or three years have been of considerably poor quality since streaming and COVID. For the most part, streaming with a combination of covid and people's stopping going to the movie theaters has put a real dent in the movie quality. Only a couple few years ago. I would buy several movies per month and now it's gone to several movies a year instead.
The reason that I went with Vudu and consolidated to one service primary is because of their disc to video service.
Great info, THANKS
You bet!
Great news also regarding Netflix. I'm watching quite a few series in 4K Dolby Vision with Atmos and the average bit rate is 19 mbps with 770 kbps Atmos :) All looking great via the Apple TV 4K to a LG C2. Netflix compression algorithms seem to be quite outstanding as over Christmas I streamed 'Office Christmas Party'. It's 1080p HD and came in at a shocking 1.4 mbps!!!!! BUT it actually looked and sounded great AND looked IDENTICAL to my iTunes 1080p HD purchase which is 5.5 mbps.
Most of my movies on Movies Anywhere is Dolby Atmos and Dolby vision there are few movies that are just not mastered in that..
Would you see if Vudu have changed anything with them becoming Fandango at home. I am not in the Apple universe and have no desire to be mine is Vudu or now Fandango at home and movies anywhere with Some Netflix(But I won't pay that "4K" price). I still mostly 98% of the time do 4K Blu-ray so I'm asking for that 2%
Yeah, good call to check in on the current state of VUDU/Fandango.
@@Techthusiasm Thank you.
Who is better microsoft or apple?
For what? Video? I wouldn't buy any video content from Microsoft. Apple 100%.
I don't see any of the providers going notably higher bitrate as their goal is the opposite, reduce bitrate as every stream costs them money. And of course as they get better with encoding and switch to AV1 (where they were using h.264), they will get better without increasing bitrate.
Also, for future bitrate comparisons, I'd make sure you are selecting something with the same ratio. Your Disney and HBO example has about about 1/4 less video data because it is 2.35:1, not 16:9.
That's my fear as well. The only hope is that high quality TVs are getting bigger and cheaper every year, so more and more people will have a big high quality TV in their house, wheremybe some will see and want the better quality stream.
@@floz9718Better quality streaming has nothing to do with screen size.
Companies won't base their decision on how many people keep buying larger screen TV's.
When AV1 comes, we will see what happens. I hope we see better quality at the same rates instead of same quality at lesser rates. TBD. The TWiT guys on their Apple show were just talking about AV1 in the last episode with quite enlightening discussion.
Aspect ratio shouldn't affect bit rate that much as unused space is black. There's virtually no encoding load to encode black. Either that or they don't bother to encode the black anyway, and they just stream in the image area with actual picture. This video was conceived to sanity check each service, being more service-oriented, than content. I will do more comparisons as we go with specific new movies to get that consistency you mention.
@@Techthusiasm AV1 is roughly a h.265 equivalent, to slightly better depending on use case. There is a Moscow State University 30%-better claim from years ago, during development, that still gets parroted as though it applies to everything but any test that shows that level of improvement was against h.264 and VP9, and hasn't been born out vs h.265. Where AV1 is more efficient is at low bitrates but at high, like 4k video stream rates, it is the same to slightly worse than h.265. H.266 seems to be an improvement across the board vs av1 and h.265 but I can't find a recent, trustworthy article about any recent objective tests.
The reason it was made is purely that it is royalty-free, not that it is significantly more effective compression. So the streaming companies can reduce costs.
Those are pretty decent numbers. For consuming content on a TV, streaming is getting really good and the difference to 4k Blu rays isn't that significant anymore for video quality - sound is still lacking though especially in terms of dynamic range.
The biggest issue I have with streaming today is FHD SDR content, there the streaming services really tank the bitrate and you usually only get around 5 mbit/s - you definately notice the difference between a FHD blu ray and streaming, whereas with 4k HDR material, most would probably have a really hard time telling them apart in a blind test (with a projector setup it's probably more visible than sitting 3m from a 77" TV like me though).
Great video and info!
Thank you!
Awesome video!!
Thanks!
As someone who finally upgraded their Panny VT30 plasma I’m loving the Amazon prime hdr content via Apple 4ktv on a new Lg C3 55”. From memory I believe this picture is a lot better than blu ray 1080p movies on the VT30. I’m sure the LG OLED has a lot to do with it but I’m not in any hurry to get a 4k blu ray player. Curiosity I’m sure will get the best of me but I’ll enjoy the ride for now.
4K streaming is really good. I'll take a 4K stream over an HD Blu-ray every time.
Apple should up their quality to Bravia Core levels to accommodate Vision Pro owners at least.
I would love for Apple to drop high bit video and lossless audio streaming. I'm waiting!
For Peacock, you should’ve tried the Continental, that had some killer Atmos audio…
Oh, darn! Good call. I need to watch that show too.
Excellent video, thank you!
I have to say, I feel somewhat vindicated because for a while now I’ve always preferred Apple plus when it comes to picture and audio, when compared to other streaming platforms. I’ve often wondered though if it was mind over matter, but certainly not when it comes to Amazon…. Amazon, audio is horrible!
You had it right!
Need an affordable, entry level 4k digital download service that lets you keep what you buy, without any further support to play the content.
Priced to compete with just buying the disc.
I hope you include the hulu streaming service when you test the bitrate again.
Will try, thanks!
TY.👍
Movies anywhere doesn’t do Dolby Atmos or vision on any Sony movies I found that out.
Great video!
Thank you for doing this much needed video!
You never disappoint me.
Thanks!
God bless Tim Apple
You dumped pretty good on Movies Anywhere even though they had significantly higher average bitrate than most other services.
Movies Anywhere does decent on the technicals, but it has historically has reliability issues and suffers from a lack of content given that only certain studios support MA.
I know 4K is all the rage and what people are curious about but I’m curious to see this same shootout for just HD content. The majority of content on these services is just 1080p. I’ve heard many times that Vudu HDX is vastly superior to iTunes HD but I’m not buying it lol
Interesting. I could do that. Noted!
So much advanced technology and yet they still can't catch up with optical discs. 4K Blu-rays can reach upto max 128mbps, even a 1080p Blu-rays bitrate is literally double of 4k streaming. Guess we're gonna need much faster internet speed to process that much data and details. When and if once we're able to achieve blu ray like bitrates then that's gonna be game changer.
In actual practice, most discs don't use that much bit rate. I've been surprised in the past how close these numbers are to many a disc when we are talking about 30 - 40 Mbps. Also, keep in mind that HD BD vs. 4K BD compression is different. So 1080p HD BD is not double the streaming bit rate as it is comparing H.264 to HEVC/H.265.
@@TechthusiasmMost of 1080p Blu-rays I've seen have 40+ mbps h264 and 4k Blu-rays going around 80+ mbps hevc/h265. I've even seen the comparisons of same resolution of movies 1080p disc vs 1080p streaming, 4k disc vs 4k streaming stills/screenshots side by side and the blu ray still looks much better with much details as compared to any streaming.
@@AsifTML2Give a list of at least 10 movies that have 80Mbps on 4K Blu-ray.
@@PSYCHOV3N0M I don't know 10 but the one I have is Twilight 4K and the average bitrate is 80mbps but it also goes above 100 in many scenes. Am sure if you see more 4K Blu-rays you'll find it going around 80 or more. The specification for 4K Blu-ray allows for three disc capacities, each with its own data rate: 50 GB at 72 or 92 Mbit/s, and 66 GB and 100 GB at 92, 123, or 144 Mbit/s. Especially BDXL ones have high capacity storage with much higher bitrate.
I think folks can cherry pick content to compare because bit rate isn't everything all the time. A bad encode is still a bad encode even with more bit rate. So, there are other factors at play. Still, bit rate over a large average of content, IMO, is a good indicator of quality. I don't agree that 1080p BD is superior to 4K.
I agree as well, the actual used bit rates used on a lot of physical media are generally lower than many might expect. In some cases, even close to these streaming rates.