I have watched at least 9 TH-cams on this and listened to that many TH-cams (no or few pictures or animations) as well. Not one person has explained this so simply and easily with a perfectly clear picture(s) of what it actually looks like. I Get It Now! Thank you, thank you!!!
Just the video I needed to resolve a problem with my surge protected equipment which wouldn't work until I unbonded the neutral on my generator. Thank you.
Unbelievable video. The best I've viewed on this subject. Question: What happens if you have an older bonded generator and it does not have GFI 120 outlets? And does this affect the other outlets, the L5-30 OR The L14-30? Thanks
Very nice video. However, the most popular transfer switches from Reliance do not switch the neutral.....so....they require the bonded neutral from the source.
excellent video (and the webpage too). What if my neutral-bonded generator has no GFCI, and I backfeed my main panel (interlocked) which has GFCI breakers. My guess is the panel GFCI will NOT trip as the neutral passes through the GFCI breaker before reaching the bonds. Yes?
Exactly, the ground wires in your service panel won't have any current flowing on them as usual hence its not an issue. The problem only exist in the generator's hookup cable where the ground wire has some current flowing on it (parallel circuit) and since it's temporary who cares right because everything is still fully functional even thought the proper way would be to use a floating-neutral generator 😊
on the f-150 hybrid I disconnected the ground from the 30 amp 240 volt inlet plug and it solved the ground fault on the Truck, I have an interlock on the breaker on the main panel, and all outlets are grounded anyway at the house
I have a Pulsar 12000W PG12000B and Pulsar told me to remove the neutral bond completely, it went from the ground to two spots on the connection block. After removing the bond the generator will not power an individual load such as a fan. Pulsar said that is normal unless the generator is connected to the load where the neutral is bonded. Does that seem right? I don't necessarily disagree I'm just looking for more insight. I've thought about making or buying a bonding plug. Thanks for this video!
Thanks! Would be helpful to show the path of a ground fault after disconnecting the bond in the generator (e.g. the hot touches the toaster frame). Seems like there would no longer be a path through the ground wire back to the generator neutral point and it would not trip (it would go back to the panel ground, cross over to the neutral and back to the generator via the GFCI which would be none the wiser).
You're right the GFCI would not trip but the overcurrent protection (20A breaker) would. GFCI on generators is safety feature for standalone use with power tools.
Unfortunately this voids the warranty on most generators and leaves the generator with the now floating neutral in a potential dangerous situation when using as in other situations with power cords to run power tools. Is this a correct understanding?
How is it that pre-1987 (I think) homes in California have three-wire 240VAC: L1, L2, Ground and no neutral wire? This is true for Kitchen Ranges and Electric Clothes Dryers. Does the violate the basic rule of "cirlce" for electricity? What am I missing?
Could this be a solution if to instal a GFCI circuit breaker in your main pannel (along with a interlock kit) without removal of bond on the neutral in the generator?
Question, so if you just use the generator by itself without connecting it to the house you would need to reconnect that chassis ground on the generator for the GFIC to work correct?
If you disconnect the neutral bond in your generator for house, used with an interlock, that’s great. If you ever go back to using it as a generator, standalone, while camping for instance, you need to put it back and bond the neutral to the frame.
While less common and more expensive I prefer a Neutral transfer switch along with the hots. This way the ground is bonded to everything but the hots and Neutral are linked to a separately derived source in either the utility or the generator. You need a bonded generator as well. Jotta W2R-2P/3P/4P 100A 220V Mini ATS Automatic Transfer Switch 100 amp Electrical Selector Switches Dual Power Switch (3P 100A 220V)
Question - I will be receiving a 4k inverter/generator soon, it comes setup with floating neutral, no gfci outlet. The main purpose will be as an emergency backup for 1 or 2 sump pumps. I will put a neutral/ground bonding plug into an unused outlet on the generator so that it will be bonded. The generator will be exclusively used with extension cords to the sump pump(s). I am wondering about adding a gfci between the extension cord and the sump pump. I won’t run into the problem of the second bonding location shown in the video, but are there any other roadblocks that I’d hit? Thoughts? Thank you
I have a MultiQuip generator, ans their literature says they won't show how to remove the bond in the generator. I haven't been able to find instructions anywhere.
I also have a multiquip generator. If you remove the ground at the point where you plug the generator into your house it will accomplish the same thing and your GFCI on the generator will no longer trip. Don't remove the ground wire at the panel, but at the actual inlet for the power cord. Leave it grounded to the box if metallic, but remove it from the terminal.
I had an issue with an inverter based window ac unit. The only thing I could do was go through a non gfci breaker on the generator. Basically had to use a 30 amp to 2+2 outlet conversion plug, since the 30 amp outlet was not a gfci
I'm curious, as a licensed electrician, if the removal of the bond on the neutral in the generator could result in a floating neutral. This could cause way more problems.
I retract that comment as I believe the neutral bond to ground at the main disconnect of the home will intentionally bond the neutral much like a separately derived power source.
@@DougSpenceECOSF your generator will have a floating neutral, but you will still be bonded at your disconnect. The point of making the generator floating is precisely because you're already bonded elsewhere.
Fantastic! I curse Honda for putting GFI receptacles in my generator which is a 2ndary backup, and is enclosed requiring a cooling fan. I have a mobile home style charger/inverter and 6 deep cycle batteries as my primary backup. In an extended outage I run the generator thro a transfer switch which disengages utility power to the inverter charger and engages generator power. The compartment cooling fan is plugged into one of the two GFI outlets on the generator and if the fan fails the generator cooks., That is too risky for me as I have caught the GFI outlet tripping once while I was not there. My generator is not bonded and I suspect that when I use the generator that the inverter does the dual function of charge the batteries and supplies juice to the house and there are some stray currents produced which can trip the GFI outlets. Could also be on gens like mine with auto throttle the change in gen speed could cause small current fluctuations that trips the GFI's. Because reliability is so critical, I removed the GFI's and replaced them with non-GFI receptacles. The generator is stationary and the frame is grounded and I don't care what code says what; I have $2,500 invested in my genset and I am more interested in protecting my investment.
Why would you have a ground going from the ground bus to the generator frame? Wouldn't you ground from ground bus bar going through the 4 construction 240v twist lock? Everything would be grounded from the houses main ground
So, if you unbond the generator and run 240 to a transfer switch, what happens if you then decide to simultaneously use one of the other outlets on the generator, lets say just to power something outside. Is that other circuit now not gfci protected?
My problem is with no load i have all breakers shut down and then start my genratator turn on my 50 amp breaker to back feed my panel then no breackers trip and genratator shuts down and ...any ideas
It's much easier to simply lift the ground at the point where the generator plugs into your house. It does the same thing. The only difference is that you won't have to modify your generator which may void the warranty or make it unsafe to use out in the field.
I've got a real simple quick I got a harbor freight generator two 110 receptacle with GFCI can I just put regular receptacles in there and get rid of the GFCI cuz mine you can't text it doesn't reset they're like broke then two days later I fired up then works day later I fired up it don't put on power three days later it does it always does when I don't really need it the most
@@donski1519 I disagree, and the video explains why around 4:50. This would create multiple 2 bonded neutrals (home and generator), which is not NEC code. But yes, it does work, as long as you don't cause a ground fault. We are assuming the transfer switch neutral is in tact here.
This makes the generator UNSAFE to use standalone. Why remove the internal bond and modify your generator? You can do the same thing by not connecting the ground to the house, which still might not be a good idea.
@@KevinRiceSLO idk, if I found a ground bonded in the wall I would be more inclined to unbond the wires than lift the ground. Stand-alone home generators are floating neutral. I use my “portable” generator as a stand-alone home generator, so I took out the bonding jumper.
Why is it that if i turn off my breaker I'm safe to work on my house wiring etc., BUT if i turn the same breaker off and backfeed power back from the generator to my house there is concern that the hydro lines could be energized ??
If you turn off the main breaker, it doesn't allow current to be fed to other breakers. That being said, if you were backfeeding power to your house would you feel safe working on the now hot house wiring? Electricity doesn't have knowledge of which way to travel, it just travels in the path of least resistance. If you have the generator providing power and it's connected to the same system the hydro lines are when they aren't providing energy, you now have a new route with minimal resistance. You would be providing the service that the hydro company does, except in reverse.
You need to turn off your main breaker when back feeding your generator. All the breakers are connected internally in your panel, right out to the street. Turn off the main and you break that connection to the power lines.
I have a winco generator it says it has a bonded neutral but the 240v is not gfci protected when I connected it to my reliance pro tran how come it did not trip?
I have watched at least 9 TH-cams on this and listened to that many TH-cams (no or few pictures or animations) as well. Not one person has explained this so simply and easily with a perfectly clear picture(s) of what it actually looks like. I Get It Now! Thank you, thank you!!!
Awesome vid, thank you very much for FINALLY a clear explanation. I kind of understood why it needed to be done but now it all makes perfect sense!!
Excellent video. Now I’m able to use my solar generator with my transfer switch. Thanks for sharing.
Just the video I needed to resolve a problem with my surge protected equipment which wouldn't work until I unbonded the neutral on my generator. Thank you.
Unbelievable video. The best I've viewed on this subject. Question: What happens if you have an older bonded generator and it does not have GFI 120 outlets? And does this affect the other outlets, the L5-30 OR The L14-30? Thanks
Thank you for this video, verry good explanation. My 240 Volt is not GFCI but I understand I should remove the bond to supply the house correctly.
very good explaination...appreciate the education
Ditto the other comments. This broke through the noise for me. Thanks!
Very nice video. However, the most popular transfer switches from Reliance do not switch the neutral.....so....they require the bonded neutral from the source.
Great job. So clear. Liked and subscribed
I believe the GFCI is designed to detect differences in the 4-6 mA range so this makes perfect sense (albeit your example used 2mA delta).
excellent video (and the webpage too). What if my neutral-bonded generator has no GFCI, and I backfeed my main panel (interlocked) which has GFCI breakers.
My guess is the panel GFCI will NOT trip as the neutral passes through the GFCI breaker before reaching the bonds.
Yes?
Exactly, the ground wires in your service panel won't have any current flowing on them as usual hence its not an issue. The problem only exist in the generator's hookup cable where the ground wire has some current flowing on it (parallel circuit) and since it's temporary who cares right because everything is still fully functional even thought the proper way would be to use a floating-neutral generator 😊
on the f-150 hybrid I disconnected the ground from the 30 amp 240 volt inlet plug and it solved the ground fault on the Truck, I have an interlock on the breaker on the main panel, and all outlets are grounded anyway at the house
This is the best way to do it. Leave the generator intact and simply remove the ground at the plug in point like you did
Great explanation.
I have a Pulsar 12000W PG12000B and Pulsar told me to remove the neutral bond completely, it went from the ground to two spots on the connection block. After removing the bond the generator will not power an individual load such as a fan. Pulsar said that is normal unless the generator is connected to the load where the neutral is bonded. Does that seem right? I don't necessarily disagree I'm just looking for more insight. I've thought about making or buying a bonding plug. Thanks for this video!
Thanks. It's finally almost starting to possibly begin to maybe make a little sense, kinda.
Thanks! Would be helpful to show the path of a ground fault after disconnecting the bond in the generator (e.g. the hot touches the toaster frame). Seems like there would no longer be a path through the ground wire back to the generator neutral point and it would not trip (it would go back to the panel ground, cross over to the neutral and back to the generator via the GFCI which would be none the wiser).
You're right the GFCI would not trip but the overcurrent protection (20A breaker) would. GFCI on generators is safety feature for standalone use with power tools.
Excellent explanation 🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Unfortunately this voids the warranty on most generators and leaves the generator with the now floating neutral in a potential dangerous situation when using as in other situations with power cords to run power tools. Is this a correct understanding?
Thanks!
That was very kind of you. Thank you! Much appreciated 🙂
How is it that pre-1987 (I think) homes in California have three-wire 240VAC: L1, L2, Ground and no neutral wire? This is true for Kitchen Ranges and Electric Clothes Dryers. Does the violate the basic rule of "cirlce" for electricity? What am I missing?
Could this be a solution if to instal a GFCI circuit breaker in your main pannel (along with a interlock kit) without removal of bond on the neutral in the generator?
Great video. First one of seen that got this right!
Question, so if you just use the generator by itself without connecting it to the house you would need to reconnect that chassis ground on the generator for the GFIC to work correct?
You absolutely would. You shouldn't do it as shown in this video, but instead remove the ground at the inlet power cord plug in point.
Wow Thank you sir! This is now imbedded in my head for as long as blood oxygen keeps flowing to it 😂
We'll done. Thank you.
So what happens if I want to use this for other portable generating needs, does removing the neutral bond create significant issues?
If you disconnect the neutral bond in your generator for house, used with an interlock, that’s great. If you ever go back to using it as a generator, standalone, while camping for instance, you need to put it back and bond the neutral to the frame.
While less common and more expensive I prefer a Neutral transfer switch along with the hots. This way the ground is bonded to everything but the hots and Neutral are linked to a separately derived source in either the utility or the generator. You need a bonded generator as well.
Jotta W2R-2P/3P/4P 100A 220V Mini ATS Automatic Transfer Switch 100 amp Electrical Selector Switches Dual Power Switch (3P 100A 220V)
There is no such thing as 220V in the US, we use 240V/120V.
Question - I will be receiving a 4k inverter/generator soon, it comes setup with floating neutral, no gfci outlet. The main purpose will be as an emergency backup for 1 or 2 sump pumps. I will put a neutral/ground bonding plug into an unused outlet on the generator so that it will be bonded. The generator will be exclusively used with extension cords to the sump pump(s). I am wondering about adding a gfci between the extension cord and the sump pump. I won’t run into the problem of the second bonding location shown in the video, but are there any other roadblocks that I’d hit?
Thoughts? Thank you
Don't add bonding plug, you don't need it.
What if your main panel is technically a sub panel because you have an external disconnect that acts as your main panel with the bond?
Great video 🤙🏽
I have a MultiQuip generator, ans their literature says they won't show how to remove the bond in the generator. I haven't been able to find instructions anywhere.
I also have a multiquip generator. If you remove the ground at the point where you plug the generator into your house it will accomplish the same thing and your GFCI on the generator will no longer trip. Don't remove the ground wire at the panel, but at the actual inlet for the power cord. Leave it grounded to the box if metallic, but remove it from the terminal.
I had an issue with an inverter based window ac unit. The only thing I could do was go through a non gfci breaker on the generator. Basically had to use a 30 amp to 2+2 outlet conversion plug, since the 30 amp outlet was not a gfci
I'm curious, as a licensed electrician, if the removal of the bond on the neutral in the generator could result in a floating neutral. This could cause way more problems.
I retract that comment as I believe the neutral bond to ground at the main disconnect of the home will intentionally bond the neutral much like a separately derived power source.
@@DougSpenceECOSF your generator will have a floating neutral, but you will still be bonded at your disconnect. The point of making the generator floating is precisely because you're already bonded elsewhere.
Fantastic! I curse Honda for putting GFI receptacles in my generator which is a 2ndary backup, and is enclosed requiring a cooling fan. I have a mobile home style charger/inverter and 6 deep cycle batteries as my primary backup. In an extended outage I run the generator thro a transfer switch which disengages utility power to the inverter charger and engages generator power. The compartment cooling fan is plugged into one of the two GFI outlets on the generator and if the fan fails the generator cooks., That is too risky for me as I have caught the GFI outlet tripping once while I was not there. My generator is not bonded and I suspect that when I use the generator that the inverter does the dual function of charge the batteries and supplies juice to the house and there are some stray currents produced which can trip the GFI outlets. Could also be on gens like mine with auto throttle the change in gen speed could cause small current fluctuations that trips the GFI's. Because reliability is so critical, I removed the GFI's and replaced them with non-GFI receptacles. The generator is stationary and the frame is grounded and I don't care what code says what; I have $2,500 invested in my genset and I am more interested in protecting my investment.
Why would you have a ground going from the ground bus to the generator frame? Wouldn't you ground from ground bus bar going through the 4 construction 240v twist lock? Everything would be grounded from the houses main ground
So, if you unbond the generator and run 240 to a transfer switch, what happens if you then decide to simultaneously use one of the other outlets on the generator, lets say just to power something outside. Is that other circuit now not gfci protected?
it's still protected, but the generator is now unsafe to use standalone
@@KevinRiceSLO Thanks for the info and that does make sense now.
Very good!
Regards mg.
My problem is with no load i have all breakers shut down and then start my genratator turn on my 50 amp breaker to back feed my panel then no breackers trip and genratator shuts down and ...any ideas
Are you turning all your house breakers back on? Your generator might not be powerful enough to run everything in your house, and is overloaded.
What if the 240v outlet is not GFCI? Will it still work?
yes, you don't need to do anything.
So if I’m correct my 240 outlet is not GFCI protected I don’t have to unbond my generator to use with interlock correct
It's much easier to simply lift the ground at the point where the generator plugs into your house. It does the same thing. The only difference is that you won't have to modify your generator which may void the warranty or make it unsafe to use out in the field.
I was thinking in my head why wouldn't that situation work also, in understanding how electricity works.
What do you mean by lift the ground ?
I've got a real simple quick I got a harbor freight generator two 110 receptacle with GFCI can I just put regular receptacles in there and get rid of the GFCI cuz mine you can't text it doesn't reset they're like broke then two days later I fired up then works day later I fired up it don't put on power three days later it does it always does when I don't really need it the most
So, if the outlet on the generator is not GFCI protected, would this still be an issue even though it is still a bonded neutral?
no, your good.
@@donski1519 I disagree, and the video explains why around 4:50. This would create multiple 2 bonded neutrals (home and generator), which is not NEC code. But yes, it does work, as long as you don't cause a ground fault. We are assuming the transfer switch neutral is in tact here.
Float the neutral on the generator.
This makes the generator UNSAFE to use standalone. Why remove the internal bond and modify your generator? You can do the same thing by not connecting the ground to the house, which still might not be a good idea.
That wouldn’t rectify the current divergence. Drive a ground rod and ground your gender?
@@dukeraul624 If you lift the ground, no current can diverge. Explain?
@@KevinRiceSLO idk, if I found a ground bonded in the wall I would be more inclined to unbond the wires than lift the ground.
Stand-alone home generators are floating neutral. I use my “portable” generator as a stand-alone home generator, so I took out the bonding jumper.
@@dukeraul624 fair, but I believe the comment is meant for the situation where people use if for more than power backup.
By not disconeccting the bond on my generator it kills 5 gfci breakers thats crazy
Why is it that if i turn off my breaker I'm safe to work on my house wiring etc., BUT if i turn the same breaker off and backfeed power back from the generator to my house there is concern that the hydro lines could be energized ??
If you turn off the main breaker, it doesn't allow current to be fed to other breakers. That being said, if you were backfeeding power to your house would you feel safe working on the now hot house wiring?
Electricity doesn't have knowledge of which way to travel, it just travels in the path of least resistance. If you have the generator providing power and it's connected to the same system the hydro lines are when they aren't providing energy, you now have a new route with minimal resistance. You would be providing the service that the hydro company does, except in reverse.
You need to turn off your main breaker when back feeding your generator. All the breakers are connected internally in your panel, right out to the street. Turn off the main and you break that connection to the power lines.
YO...Switches be trippin...
So this is why I can't charge my solar generator battery.
I have a winco generator it says it has a bonded neutral but the 240v is not gfci protected when I connected it to my reliance pro tran how come it did not trip?
You answered your question in the question. Without a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter you only have Overcurrent Protection, thus no GFCI to trip.
@@DougSpenceECOSF ty for your time.