David, your humility is admired. Thanks for sharing this. As I have discovered, repeatedly, our oversights become our very best teacher and hind sight is always 20/20. We all learned from this.
The good and the bad. That's what I like about the channel! I appreciate you showing this and allowing us to learn together! Hope Icon tries to make it right, looking forward to your next video!
Thanks so much! Hopefully it was helpful in someway shape or form. Even if they try, I’m not interested anymore. I feel like it would be a result of these videos which is unfair to everyone else that has issues with them and doesn’t get a resolution
Your honesty and integrity in "owning" part of the problem is commendable. Anyone and I mean EVERYONE that has done any serious DIY has made a few mistakes; sometimes expensive, sometimes not, sometimes danagerous and sometimes not, and sometimes bone-headed and sometimes not. I hope the R.C. components work out for ya!!
Appreciate you honest humility. I will say a set of the Bronc buster brace with the factory rack works well for me so far. Have been on Utah rock and PNW river beds and have been pretty confident. Keep hitting those trails and sharing..no one is perfect dude. Good Job on the repair.
Sounds like you are waiting on the 74Weld..... you will love it. That was the first major replacement I made. Worth every penny. It is also a work of art. When you see it, you will understand. It is like owning a fine piece of priceless art in your safe, no one can see it but you know you have it but unlike a painting, this is functional art! Enjoy and safe travels.
Oh yeah it’s gorgeous!! I saw it at expo pnw and talked with those guys a long time about it! I can’t wait to get it in my hands and in the bronco. Then I’ll never have to think about the steering components again
brother, I love your channel, and really appreciate your humility. you have been a model for my own off roading behaviors and habits. All that being said, my advice is to use the stock tie rods. The stock tie rods are designed to be the weak link in the system to protect the steering rack. When you use those big beefy tie rods you transfer all that energry and stress to the next component in the chain and that is the sterring rack. This was not the cause for your issue as you mentioned earlier, but just my 2 cents and humble opinion. There is also a new product called the bronc buster that is a tie rod repair brace that will splice the tie rod together to get you moving. I carry a new in package spare set of stock tie rods in my parts box, as well as a few other things that are common Ford part failures. (Looking at you Wheel speed sensors)
Thanks man I really appreciate that. Yeah I totally understand that they are designed to be weak to save the steering rack. But that is why I also replaced the end cap as that is the most common failure after the tie rods. I’m on a lift and 37s now, so realistically I need to get either the HOSS 3.0 rack or the 74 weld stage 3, but I’m a slow and methodically off roader and the other failure point is typically seen in high speed impacts from what I understand. Anyways, I did think about all this prior to making these mods and our approach might be different but I appreciate you looking out!
@OFFTHEGRIND Definitely Brother!!! We have similar styles in our approach. Gotta plan the build out and all that. And yes, the high-speed impact is the most common reason they fail on the Raptor, that and too tight of a section where the wheels both grab and force them inward. All that said, Dude, I respect you a lot and really appreciate all that goes into your vids!! You gave me the inspiration to get my channel moving again!!
Great video bro and a humbling experience! Cant wait to see it fixed and back in action. Rough country is a company ive used but never had any issues with. I think ppl have to realize its a company that provides parts to help guys get into offroading without breaking the bank and are cost effective. U cant go rock crawling and expect rough country parts to be bulletproof bcuz its unrealistic but for the price their parts are worth it if u dont have unrealistic expectations
It was a stupid mistake, but one I’ve heard of a few people making. Really hoping to show that it’s a possibility and prevent it from happening to others. Thanks though!
You may find brake cleaner will remove gunk and junk off your parts faster in the future. That's what I've always used. Also, maybe check junk yards for a stock replacement to the rack before buying new.
Thank you for sharing your information. It’s always better to learn from somebody else’s mistake and that sounds like an expensive one. Hope you get out and do some adventure videos soon. Can’t wait to see him. Keep up the great work. 😎👍
I installed Rough Country M1 coil overs on my Bronco and I have been very impressed with these things? If you asked me 5 or 6 years ago to use Rough Country on my vehicles I would have laughed but I think they have come a long way compared to just a few years ago!
Bummer to see.....good on ya for taking ownership! We need more of that in the world. Soooooo are you splurging on a shiney new hoss 3.0 74weld rack? Cant wait to see whatcha do! Your channel has been one hellava inspiration, keep up the excellent work
Thanks man! And yeah that’s the plan! Just gotta wait for them to come in stock again. So glad the channel has been a source of motivation! That is awesome to hear
I appreciate your honesty in this video. I gotta say that even though you made a mistake by installing the Icon tie rods, they really shit the bed on this product. I've had problems with their suspension products in the past as well. Their customer service is pretty terrible. You have to really bother them to get any kind of response. Which is unacceptable. Hopefully, they will get back to you soon with, at the very least, an apology and a refund.
They apologized over a forum after talking crap about me. At which point I was 100% done with them and was willing to spend more money to get their products off my vehicle
Thanks the awesome knowledge about these vehicles. New subscriber here. Ford really dropped the ball on the ford broncos when it comes to the front end. You can’t expect to compete against a jeep rubicon, when good people like you are having to spend thousands of dollars on there brand new 4x4, just to go out for a weekend on the trails. Love the channel! Keep it up!
I have been impressed with rough country lately. Never owned anything because of the bad rep from them. I have recently bought their ARB clone twin compressor and it’s great. My buddy bought the coilovers with resi and he’s had really good luck with them. Looks like they have made a turn for the better
It definitely seems that way. Their new line of suspension kits like you said are actually pretty good from what I’ve been hearing. Very glad that they are able to pivot and that the market is noticing their efforts
We got our Icon Tie Rods in late January 2023 and were also wondering about the boot situation… we went with zip ties. They’ve held up after a year of abuse… but we bought a second set of boots with clamps, because we’re assuming the boot will get trashed if we have to take them off.
Commendable for having the integrity to own your mistake and the humility to publish it publicly. Note to self: Don't use Icon Vehicle Dynamics. Got it. (Wasn't planning to anyway, I'm a TeraFlex fan) As far as Rough Country is concerned, I've had their shocks and suspension systems on a previous vehicle and they work great. Never had any issues from them at all and I beat the crap out of them. Their shocks aren't the most comfortable off-road, but damn if they aren't durable.
Thanks so much! I’m never gonna lie to you all or hide the facts. That doesn’t help anyone. A lot of people have had good success with icon. And a lot of people have had bad. I personally won’t touch them ever again, but when they send you the right stuff, I’ve heard it’s good lol RC seems to be stepping it up and I’m stoked to see it
Ive been wondering where you’ve been. I guess broke down ! I saw the freezing video. Bummer. 1- you got your nice hat dirty ! 2- your mechanic skills are impressive. Just like your filming skills. Good job ! 3- I should have my Badlands by early to mid February. It’s been built. It’s on a rail car heading to Port of Benicia, Ca. From there to Ford in Dixon, Ca. Then to my house !,! Thanks for the video. Very informative
Yeah unfortunately the bronco has been down for a bit. Putting a new rack in it tonight though, aligned tomorrow then camping as soon as humanly possible!! I miss it. I honestly have so many freakin hats at this point lol but I just pick black ones for this since it’ll hide the stain better lol. At least that’s what I hope for. But congrats man! Gonna be an awesome day when you’re able to take delivery. Badlands is the best trim too. Good for you!
BIG Thank you for making this video! Enjoy your wheeling trip vids too, but learned asome very key stuff on this version. We know gotta take great care of steering components on IFS off-road critters. I've almost completed our WildTrak 3.0's basic on-board steering spare parts & tools kit. Thanks again - Cheers
I’m so glad you found this useful! Not the most fun video to make, but when you hit the trail it’s bound to happen at some point. Lucky you have a 3.0 though those racks seem to be much improved over the 2.0. Hopefully you don’t have issues
New subscriber, cool channel. I live in Alabama and would LOVE to go to Oregon to ride,,, ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PLACES IN AMERICA. Stunning!! Looking forward to watching all your videos. GOD BLESS and happy trails!!
Believe it or not, RC makes some quality stuff. I have their Vertex lift kit for my rig and completely satisfied with it. Tahuya and the cascades approved.
Sorry to hear of you troubles. Well the way I see it, If Icon sent the wrong boots from the start They should step up and cover the cost of the new rack! But since they haven't responded...I wouldn't put money on it. Oh well their loss, I hope this video gets around and gives them a bad name. I just picked up a 23 Big bend with the BF package and I won't be looking into any Icon products because of this video. GB & stay safe! All the best in 24 also!
Yeah I’ve heard super mixed reviews on icon since all this started. Very mixed and for that I’m going to stay away for sure. Never know what you’re gonna get with them
Don’t you miss automotive class, having access to a car lift. That’s one thing I love about working on newer vehicles, no bolts are rusted and seized yet.
I have never been a fan of electric power steering racks when it comes to off road. They just don’t have the seals in them like a hydraulic rack and pinion or steering box and drag link.
Great video! Love your honesty and humility! Just subscribed to your channel. We have a bronco that my wife drives, and we started overlanding in. And I just traded my f150 for a 2021 tacoma, so I'm going to be watching alot of your videos. On the bronco, do you think the RC tie rods and 74weld cap would've been good enough to make the steering rack better if the boots were good?
Thanks so much! Not easy to publically admit that I messed up, but I want to be as transparent as possible throughout all of this. And yea I do. However, I don’t know if I would go with rough country again. This steering doesn’t feel as direct so I’m not sure the joints are the best. I will personally be switching yet again, and I’m going with RPG this time. I’m done messing around with cheap stuff
@OFFTHEGRIND I'm just a beginner at this, but I've been hearing and reading alot about these tie rods and alot of experience offroaders that have been doing it for years with jeeps and other rigs say those heim joints like the ones RPG has are not good. Less articulation more maintenance and can damage the rack.
Thanks man. Expecting the hate to roll in but those aren’t my people anyways. Hopefully this will filter them out lol. But I appreciate your kind words though
Hey Brother many of us have had the "could of, would of, should of" moments. You'll be entertaining us again soon. A bit of a concern... That aluminum cover you pulled off and reinstalled. Is there no gasket or sealant requirement to go between it and the rack assembly? Perhaps a bead of silicone between the surfaces to keep any potential moisture out... Also brother, leave the castle nut the end of the control arm and strike it - not the treaded stud... Looking forward to more of your adventures.
Castle nut trick is a good one but one that I constantly forget lol. And there is sealant in it. I didn’t show me applying it. This time I used silicone as I knew the rack would be coming out again soon. But typically I use a liquid gasket which is also what I used when I installed it initially.
Hey David - good, informative video. I'd like your opinion on something... I've been on the fence about upgrading my tie rods. I know they're a weak spot and could break on the trail; however, I read a post recently suggesting that if a strong aftermarket tie rod does not break under pressure, the strain could transfer to the steering rack causing the rack to break. Essentially, the thought was better to break the tie rod than the rack. What are your thoughts? Cheers.
That is 100% correct. The tie rods are designed to fail before the rack and the rack is incredibly weak. I wrote an article on trail bronco all about this actually. The most common area for the rack to fail is the end cap. So if you are going to do heavy duty tie rods, you’ll want to upgrade the end cap as well
Hey Dave, is this the same "Icon Vehicle Dynamics" that makes lift kits for Bronco? And, we all have brain parts and ah ha moments in life. I respect your integrity to your subscribers and keep up the good work! Being a back yard DIY guy myself, I've had a few moments where I thought I should tear up my university degree and question my abilities! lol
One and the same. Was not impressed with them at all from the customer service to the parts. I have a lot of friends who have shared their issues with icon since this whole thing as well. So I’ll be staying clear. But dude I get that feeling for sure haha! Looking back, I don’t know how I didn’t question it. Probably cause it was torn apart and that was my only choice. Either way, it was a learning experience
Ahhhh yes, you have discovered the QC nightmare that is Icon... ;) I liked your intro, good explanation and it cleared up a lot from the first video. Then you made me sad by holding up an RC tie rod loooool, RC has failed me approx. 3 times now on 3 different products. Tie rod thickness is not the answer to the Bronco steering. A couple things if I may that I have learned from tearing apart several racks of different broncos on my steering series... The tie rod does not need more articulation, you are nowhere near max articulation on your stock tie rods and you'll max out your axles and shocks before you do your tie rod joints. Not sure what your next tie rod choice is... (I hope it is Carli), but more articulation out of a joint won't solve any issues as it's not your limiting factor. Also, not sure if you plan on keeping that rack long but the steering screw 100% draws all that muck into your rack past the pulleys. There isn't any seal there and you have bearings that will go bad on the other side. You can remove the pulley and move it all around no problem, its the steering wheel that you don't want to move, as long as you line the steering screw up 2 &1/4" on each side and center the wheel you're fine. I'm also curious why you say the 74weld bushing is bad (I heard you call it the bearing but I'm talking about the bronze bushing inside their housing). Genuinely curious as I love studying that stuff and curious why you need to replace it? Anyways, love your trail videos and keep exploring!
We’ll see what happens with the rough country. Material matter more than thickness I do agree. But initial impressions were good on the RC. I have quite a few people that have had great experiences with RC so as with anything, every person and experience is not the same. Good info on the rack though. I truly do appreciate it. I am following the guidance from 74 weld though, and they recommend hiem joint tie rods for any lift over 2” (which I have coming soon) so I’m future proofing the bronco since my rack is trash and I have to redo it all. I’d love to get the carlis, they are badass, but a bit over my budget and honestly seem super unnecessary. I’ll be using the RPG tie rods
I feel we are a little off here, I have the same Icon rods on my 2023 Ford Bronco Badlands. The boots looked exactly like that out of the box. All I had to do was to stick a tool in the small hole and pull out the lip for the clamp. I believe this was user error, unfortunately.
@mildoe3 it didn’t though…. It drives me crazy that people assume their experience is the same as everyone else’s. I’m glad you had a good experience with them and they’re working out for you. But you and I did not have the same experience, nor did we receive the same things in the box it sounds like
The reason why I'm following up on this is that you make Icon seem like they are not a reputable company. You said they are not responding to you, however, my friend had a small corrosion issue on a pair of shocks and Icom sent him a new pair. Didn't even ask him to return the old pair.
@mildoe3 the feedback that I’m getting from a lot of people on the company is extremely varied. They have really screwed a couple of my friends. And others, they’ve done good by. I’m simply sharing my experience. And yeah, they haven’t responded to my email but they did talk crap about me on a forum about me which was the final straw.
So, I followed your lead and got the Icon tie rods + 74 Weld end cap installed (professionally, Brave Motorsports) on my Wildtrak 21. Is the key here to go in and make sure that the clamps are on the tie rods? I ordered them last month. I also don't play in the snow (Texas) and am not likely to find myself in the same situation you were in.
Ah well! We all have done it ... And DO it. Just sucks to have to do it again ... And then again. Pretty much A brand new vehicle and having to do the rack already really sucks ... Then again, that is off roading. But give those Rough Country parts a thorough try and put em through their paces before you switch to what ever you have coming. I bet there are a few of us out here that want to see how they do. (People are always bad mouthing them ... I have A LOT of stuff from Rough Country). You spoke of this bad mouthing, yet look at the difference between RC and the "Popular Brand" I guess you could call it. Comparatively, RC looks almost the same as the popular guys, but doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of money. You will not find any better customer service then RC as well, that's for sure. ... And it's awesome your telling folks what's going on, and admitting that you are at fault as well. That's awesome. No one admits mistakes, it's edited out. Hee hee
I keep hearing time and time again how awful Icon customer service is. I am going to go in a different direction. I would advise others to recognize the warning signs and do the same.
There is actually. I just didn’t film it. It was just the passenger side boot that seemed to take in water. I think that’s because I packed with snow a lot on that side
You should see if you could delete the steer whack and go mechanical like your cars or I don’t know if it’s possible but there’s no harm in trying. You would have much of a poem when you go floating and it’s real cold.
I am not. I trained as one,m for a little, but decided that was not the career path for me. But ive been working on cars since before I could drive haha!
Not to bash Icon, but I personally haven't heard anything great about them. I was looking at Icon for my Taco, but multiple people advised me to maybe look at other manufacturers. Sucks your having to deal with this on your new baby.....
@@OFFTHEGRIND I'm sorry you learned the hard way, at least you were in good company and got home safe. I have been biding my time on this issue (I have a 21 Badlands). I recently saw that the 2024 Badlands comes with the HOSS 3.0 steering rack, and I'm inclined to acquire one of those after a while. Hopefully Ford makes a kit to upgrade existing HOSS1/2 vehicles. I suppose you may still need different tie rods and control arms if you're going to lift, but I think the Bronco does just super on 35s and its my daily driver so its not in scope for me.
Watched your Vail video. Question, were you on DNR land or Weyerhaeuser land with a permit?? Good luck on the steering issue that is an expensive issue!!
Vail video? I’m not sure what you mean. I can tell you I’ve never been on Weyerhaeuser property. At least not knowingly. Many years ago I ran in to an issue where security claims I was on their property and had printed out maps to “prove” it, but the apps that I used (Gaia and onX) said it was public. Either way, I stay far away from land that is marked as private
My bad I was watching another channel and asked you instead of the person I wanted to know about an area near where I live, sorry for the mix up.@@OFFTHEGRIND
Experience is the greatest teacher. Especially when it hurts. Glad all is well and no one got harmed!
David, your humility is admired. Thanks for sharing this. As I have discovered, repeatedly, our oversights become our very best teacher and hind sight is always 20/20.
We all learned from this.
So true. Expensive mistake to make but I promise I won’t make that mistake again lol
The good and the bad. That's what I like about the channel! I appreciate you showing this and allowing us to learn together! Hope Icon tries to make it right, looking forward to your next video!
Thanks so much! Hopefully it was helpful in someway shape or form. Even if they try, I’m not interested anymore. I feel like it would be a result of these videos which is unfair to everyone else that has issues with them and doesn’t get a resolution
@@OFFTHEGRIND so what did you end up with for tie rods?
Your honesty and integrity in "owning" part of the problem is commendable. Anyone and I mean EVERYONE that has done any serious DIY has made a few mistakes; sometimes expensive, sometimes not, sometimes danagerous and sometimes not, and sometimes bone-headed and sometimes not. I hope the R.C. components work out for ya!!
Thank you so much for saying that. Integrity is my highest held value and something I think about in everything I do.
Sorry to hear about the troubles man, glad to see you on your way to getting it all sorted though. Hope to see you on another adventure soon!
Thanks man. Yeah it blows but it’s a good lesson learned. Yeah I hope so too man! I want to get back up there
Appreciate you honest humility. I will say a set of the Bronc buster brace with the factory rack works well for me so far. Have been on Utah rock and PNW river beds and have been pretty confident. Keep hitting those trails and sharing..no one is perfect dude. Good Job on the repair.
We all make mistakes, nobody is perfect. Just remember it’s not what knocked ya down, it’s how you get back up! 👍🏻❤️🇺🇸
Somebody should write a song about this.
Thanks man! Hoping other people can learn from me, even though looking back it seems pretty obvious. That’s just how it goes sometimes
@@OFFTHEGRIND honesty wins out brother, much respect. Hope to see ya on the trails. 👍🏻
Goodluck with the fix! I’m sure the bronco will be back meaner than ever when you’re done.
Sounds like you are waiting on the 74Weld..... you will love it. That was the first major replacement I made. Worth every penny. It is also a work of art. When you see it, you will understand. It is like owning a fine piece of priceless art in your safe, no one can see it but you know you have it but unlike a painting, this is functional art! Enjoy and safe travels.
Oh yeah it’s gorgeous!! I saw it at expo pnw and talked with those guys a long time about it! I can’t wait to get it in my hands and in the bronco. Then I’ll never have to think about the steering components again
brother, I love your channel, and really appreciate your humility. you have been a model for my own off roading behaviors and habits. All that being said, my advice is to use the stock tie rods. The stock tie rods are designed to be the weak link in the system to protect the steering rack. When you use those big beefy tie rods you transfer all that energry and stress to the next component in the chain and that is the sterring rack.
This was not the cause for your issue as you mentioned earlier, but just my 2 cents and humble opinion. There is also a new product called the bronc buster that is a tie rod repair brace that will splice the tie rod together to get you moving. I carry a new in package spare set of stock tie rods in my parts box, as well as a few other things that are common Ford part failures. (Looking at you Wheel speed sensors)
Thanks man I really appreciate that. Yeah I totally understand that they are designed to be weak to save the steering rack. But that is why I also replaced the end cap as that is the most common failure after the tie rods. I’m on a lift and 37s now, so realistically I need to get either the HOSS 3.0 rack or the 74 weld stage 3, but I’m a slow and methodically off roader and the other failure point is typically seen in high speed impacts from what I understand. Anyways, I did think about all this prior to making these mods and our approach might be different but I appreciate you looking out!
@OFFTHEGRIND Definitely Brother!!! We have similar styles in our approach. Gotta plan the build out and all that.
And yes, the high-speed impact is the most common reason they fail on the Raptor, that and too tight of a section where the wheels both grab and force them inward.
All that said, Dude, I respect you a lot and really appreciate all that goes into your vids!! You gave me the inspiration to get my channel moving again!!
Nice to hear what happened and the fix that you have to go through. Great video.
Not stoked to have to get a new rack, but lessons were learned lol
Great video bro and a humbling experience! Cant wait to see it fixed and back in action. Rough country is a company ive used but never had any issues with. I think ppl have to realize its a company that provides parts to help guys get into offroading without breaking the bank and are cost effective. U cant go rock crawling and expect rough country parts to be bulletproof bcuz its unrealistic but for the price their parts are worth it if u dont have unrealistic expectations
Good for you for show the fail part. Very refreshing. Love your channel.
It was a stupid mistake, but one I’ve heard of a few people making. Really hoping to show that it’s a possibility and prevent it from happening to others. Thanks though!
You may find brake cleaner will remove gunk and junk off your parts faster in the future. That's what I've always used. Also, maybe check junk yards for a stock
replacement to the rack before buying new.
Just make sure it's nowhere near body paint!
Thank you for sharing your information. It’s always better to learn from somebody else’s mistake and that sounds like an expensive one. Hope you get out and do some adventure videos soon. Can’t wait to see him. Keep up the great work. 😎👍
Definitely wasn’t cheap haha! I’ll be back on the road this week and I can’t wait to start pumping out the adventure vids!
I installed Rough Country M1 coil overs on my Bronco and I have been very impressed with these things? If you asked me 5 or 6 years ago to use Rough Country on my vehicles I would have laughed but I think they have come a long way compared to just a few years ago!
Bummer to see.....good on ya for taking ownership! We need more of that in the world. Soooooo are you splurging on a shiney new hoss 3.0 74weld rack? Cant wait to see whatcha do! Your channel has been one hellava inspiration, keep up the excellent work
Thanks man! And yeah that’s the plan! Just gotta wait for them to come in stock again. So glad the channel has been a source of motivation! That is awesome to hear
I appreciate your honesty in this video. I gotta say that even though you made a mistake by installing the Icon tie rods, they really shit the bed on this product. I've had problems with their suspension products in the past as well. Their customer service is pretty terrible. You have to really bother them to get any kind of response. Which is unacceptable. Hopefully, they will get back to you soon with, at the very least, an apology and a refund.
They apologized over a forum after talking crap about me. At which point I was 100% done with them and was willing to spend more money to get their products off my vehicle
I’ve used rough country, love their products!
Thanks the awesome knowledge about these vehicles. New subscriber here. Ford really dropped the ball on the ford broncos when it comes to the front end. You can’t expect to compete against a jeep rubicon, when good people like you are having to spend thousands of dollars on there brand new 4x4, just to go out for a weekend on the trails. Love the channel! Keep it up!
I have been impressed with rough country lately. Never owned anything because of the bad rep from them. I have recently bought their ARB clone twin compressor and it’s great. My buddy bought the coilovers with resi and he’s had really good luck with them. Looks like they have made a turn for the better
It definitely seems that way. Their new line of suspension kits like you said are actually pretty good from what I’ve been hearing. Very glad that they are able to pivot and that the market is noticing their efforts
That sucks man, but good work figuring it out!
Thanks man! Wish I could have actually fixed it but it turns out steering racks are a non serviceable part. So I just have to replace it
Great video - very informative. Even though I’m a Jeep guy - I learned a TON!
Thanks Greg! I think there’s always something to learn from someone else’s mistakes.
We got our Icon Tie Rods in late January 2023 and were also wondering about the boot situation… we went with zip ties. They’ve held up after a year of abuse… but we bought a second set of boots with clamps, because we’re assuming the boot will get trashed if we have to take them off.
Commendable for having the integrity to own your mistake and the humility to publish it publicly.
Note to self: Don't use Icon Vehicle Dynamics. Got it. (Wasn't planning to anyway, I'm a TeraFlex fan)
As far as Rough Country is concerned, I've had their shocks and suspension systems on a previous vehicle and they work great. Never had any issues from them at all and I beat the crap out of them. Their shocks aren't the most comfortable off-road, but damn if they aren't durable.
Thanks so much! I’m never gonna lie to you all or hide the facts. That doesn’t help anyone.
A lot of people have had good success with icon. And a lot of people have had bad. I personally won’t touch them ever again, but when they send you the right stuff, I’ve heard it’s good lol
RC seems to be stepping it up and I’m stoked to see it
Ive been wondering where you’ve been. I guess broke down ! I saw the freezing video. Bummer. 1- you got your nice hat dirty ! 2- your mechanic skills are impressive. Just like your filming skills. Good job ! 3- I should have my Badlands by early to mid February. It’s been built. It’s on a rail car heading to Port of Benicia, Ca. From there to Ford in Dixon, Ca. Then to my house !,! Thanks for the video. Very informative
Yeah unfortunately the bronco has been down for a bit. Putting a new rack in it tonight though, aligned tomorrow then camping as soon as humanly possible!! I miss it. I honestly have so many freakin hats at this point lol but I just pick black ones for this since it’ll hide the stain better lol. At least that’s what I hope for. But congrats man! Gonna be an awesome day when you’re able to take delivery. Badlands is the best trim too. Good for you!
BIG Thank you for making this video! Enjoy your wheeling trip vids too, but learned asome very key stuff on this version. We know gotta take great care of steering components on IFS off-road critters. I've almost completed our WildTrak 3.0's basic on-board steering spare parts & tools kit. Thanks again - Cheers
I’m so glad you found this useful! Not the most fun video to make, but when you hit the trail it’s bound to happen at some point. Lucky you have a 3.0 though those racks seem to be much improved over the 2.0. Hopefully you don’t have issues
New subscriber, cool channel. I live in Alabama and would LOVE to go to Oregon to ride,,, ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PLACES IN AMERICA. Stunning!! Looking forward to watching all your videos. GOD BLESS and happy trails!!
Believe it or not, RC makes some quality stuff. I have their Vertex lift kit for my rig and completely satisfied with it. Tahuya and the cascades approved.
Sorry to hear of you troubles.
Well the way I see it, If Icon sent the wrong boots from the start They should step up and cover the cost of the new rack! But since they haven't responded...I wouldn't put money on it.
Oh well their loss, I hope this video gets around and gives them a bad name.
I just picked up a 23 Big bend with the BF package and I won't be looking into any Icon products because of this video.
GB & stay safe! All the best in 24 also!
Yeah I’ve heard super mixed reviews on icon since all this started. Very mixed and for that I’m going to stay away for sure. Never know what you’re gonna get with them
Don’t you miss automotive class, having access to a car lift.
That’s one thing I love about working on newer vehicles, no bolts are rusted and seized yet.
I have never been a fan of electric power steering racks when it comes to off road. They just don’t have the seals in them like a hydraulic rack and pinion or steering box and drag link.
Great video and the beard looks fantastic.
lol thanks man
Great video! Love your honesty and humility! Just subscribed to your channel. We have a bronco that my wife drives, and we started overlanding in. And I just traded my f150 for a 2021 tacoma, so I'm going to be watching alot of your videos. On the bronco, do you think the RC tie rods and 74weld cap would've been good enough to make the steering rack better if the boots were good?
Thanks so much! Not easy to publically admit that I messed up, but I want to be as transparent as possible throughout all of this. And yea I do. However, I don’t know if I would go with rough country again. This steering doesn’t feel as direct so I’m not sure the joints are the best. I will personally be switching yet again, and I’m going with RPG this time. I’m done messing around with cheap stuff
@OFFTHEGRIND I'm just a beginner at this, but I've been hearing and reading alot about these tie rods and alot of experience offroaders that have been doing it for years with jeeps and other rigs say those heim joints like the ones RPG has are not good. Less articulation more maintenance and can damage the rack.
cool video! i think that was definitely manufactured fault and commending u for admitting online u failed to ask that takes alot of courage
Thanks man. Expecting the hate to roll in but those aren’t my people anyways. Hopefully this will filter them out lol. But I appreciate your kind words though
Hey Brother many of us have had the "could of, would of, should of" moments. You'll be entertaining us again soon.
A bit of a concern... That aluminum cover you pulled off and reinstalled. Is there no gasket or sealant requirement to go between it and the rack assembly? Perhaps a bead of silicone between the surfaces to keep any potential moisture out...
Also brother, leave the castle nut the end of the control arm and strike it - not the treaded stud...
Looking forward to more of your adventures.
Castle nut trick is a good one but one that I constantly forget lol. And there is sealant in it. I didn’t show me applying it. This time I used silicone as I knew the rack would be coming out again soon. But typically I use a liquid gasket which is also what I used when I installed it initially.
Another awesome video. Thanks for sharing. Have you had similar issues with the Tacoma?
No I haven’t had an issue with it. But I hadn’t modded any of the steering components
Great vid. Sorry for the honest mistake.
It happens man. Live and learn you know?
Good advice 👍🏼
Great video very underrated
Thanks for the video
Hey David - good, informative video. I'd like your opinion on something... I've been on the fence about upgrading my tie rods. I know they're a weak spot and could break on the trail; however, I read a post recently suggesting that if a strong aftermarket tie rod does not break under pressure, the strain could transfer to the steering rack causing the rack to break. Essentially, the thought was better to break the tie rod than the rack. What are your thoughts? Cheers.
That is 100% correct. The tie rods are designed to fail before the rack and the rack is incredibly weak. I wrote an article on trail bronco all about this actually. The most common area for the rack to fail is the end cap. So if you are going to do heavy duty tie rods, you’ll want to upgrade the end cap as well
It seems like that machined end cap should have a gasket on it where is meets the rack housing to prevent water intrusion at the contact point.
Man I really should’ve filmed that lol. There is a liquid gasket on it
Hey Dave, is this the same "Icon Vehicle Dynamics" that makes lift kits for Bronco? And, we all have brain parts and ah ha moments in life. I respect your integrity to your subscribers and keep up the good work! Being a back yard DIY guy myself, I've had a few moments where I thought I should tear up my university degree and question my abilities! lol
One and the same. Was not impressed with them at all from the customer service to the parts. I have a lot of friends who have shared their issues with icon since this whole thing as well. So I’ll be staying clear. But dude I get that feeling for sure haha! Looking back, I don’t know how I didn’t question it. Probably cause it was torn apart and that was my only choice. Either way, it was a learning experience
Ahhhh yes, you have discovered the QC nightmare that is Icon... ;) I liked your intro, good explanation and it cleared up a lot from the first video. Then you made me sad by holding up an RC tie rod loooool, RC has failed me approx. 3 times now on 3 different products. Tie rod thickness is not the answer to the Bronco steering. A couple things if I may that I have learned from tearing apart several racks of different broncos on my steering series... The tie rod does not need more articulation, you are nowhere near max articulation on your stock tie rods and you'll max out your axles and shocks before you do your tie rod joints. Not sure what your next tie rod choice is... (I hope it is Carli), but more articulation out of a joint won't solve any issues as it's not your limiting factor.
Also, not sure if you plan on keeping that rack long but the steering screw 100% draws all that muck into your rack past the pulleys. There isn't any seal there and you have bearings that will go bad on the other side. You can remove the pulley and move it all around no problem, its the steering wheel that you don't want to move, as long as you line the steering screw up 2 &1/4" on each side and center the wheel you're fine. I'm also curious why you say the 74weld bushing is bad (I heard you call it the bearing but I'm talking about the bronze bushing inside their housing). Genuinely curious as I love studying that stuff and curious why you need to replace it? Anyways, love your trail videos and keep exploring!
We’ll see what happens with the rough country. Material matter more than thickness I do agree. But initial impressions were good on the RC. I have quite a few people that have had great experiences with RC so as with anything, every person and experience is not the same. Good info on the rack though. I truly do appreciate it. I am following the guidance from 74 weld though, and they recommend hiem joint tie rods for any lift over 2” (which I have coming soon) so I’m future proofing the bronco since my rack is trash and I have to redo it all. I’d love to get the carlis, they are badass, but a bit over my budget and honestly seem super unnecessary. I’ll be using the RPG tie rods
@@OFFTHEGRIND looking forward to it!
I feel we are a little off here, I have the same Icon rods on my 2023 Ford Bronco Badlands. The boots looked exactly like that out of the box. All I had to do was to stick a tool in the small hole and pull out the lip for the clamp. I believe this was user error, unfortunately.
I definitely checked if it was just folded in, but it wasn’t. No ledge
Then why did you assume Icon somehow made it without a lip, when the plastic bag came with two large clamps and too small?
@mildoe3 it didn’t though….
It drives me crazy that people assume their experience is the same as everyone else’s. I’m glad you had a good experience with them and they’re working out for you. But you and I did not have the same experience, nor did we receive the same things in the box it sounds like
The reason why I'm following up on this is that you make Icon seem like they are not a reputable company. You said they are not responding to you, however, my friend had a small corrosion issue on a pair of shocks and Icom sent him a new pair. Didn't even ask him to return the old pair.
@mildoe3 the feedback that I’m getting from a lot of people on the company is extremely varied. They have really screwed a couple of my friends. And others, they’ve done good by. I’m simply sharing my experience. And yeah, they haven’t responded to my email but they did talk crap about me on a forum about me which was the final straw.
I love this channel...
And I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Haha! Status overland build coming!? Let’s see it!!
Thank you though!
So, I followed your lead and got the Icon tie rods + 74 Weld end cap installed (professionally, Brave Motorsports) on my Wildtrak 21. Is the key here to go in and make sure that the clamps are on the tie rods? I ordered them last month. I also don't play in the snow (Texas) and am not likely to find myself in the same situation you were in.
Yeah just make sure there are clamps on the inner and outer portion of the tie rod. If so you’ll be fine.
What was the spray you’re using to clean these parts? We’ve used brake fluid in past.
Brake cleaner might have been better. But this was on blaster which is pretty good at removing corrosion
Ah well! We all have done it ... And DO it. Just sucks to have to do it again ... And then again. Pretty much A brand new vehicle and having to do the rack already really sucks ... Then again, that is off roading. But give those Rough Country parts a thorough try and put em through their paces before you switch to what ever you have coming. I bet there are a few of us out here that want to see how they do. (People are always bad mouthing them ... I have A LOT of stuff from Rough Country). You spoke of this bad mouthing, yet look at the difference between RC and the "Popular Brand" I guess you could call it. Comparatively, RC looks almost the same as the popular guys, but doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of money. You will not find any better customer service then RC as well, that's for sure. ... And it's awesome your telling folks what's going on, and admitting that you are at fault as well. That's awesome. No one admits mistakes, it's edited out. Hee hee
Just casually chatting with the 74Weld fellas huh? 🙂
Haha I met them at OX PNW. They are great dudes and a wealth of knowledge
I keep hearing time and time again how awful Icon customer service is. I am going to go in a different direction. I would advise others to recognize the warning signs and do the same.
That's how we learn! Nobody gor hurt... So.... It's fine
Thank god no one got hurt
Should there be rtv or a gasket between the 74 weld end cap and the case. It is odd to me that the water is only on the 74 weld side.
There is actually. I just didn’t film it. It was just the passenger side boot that seemed to take in water. I think that’s because I packed with snow a lot on that side
You should see if you could delete the steer whack and go mechanical like your cars or I don’t know if it’s possible but there’s no harm in trying. You would have much of a poem when you go floating and it’s real cold.
How did you get comfortable tearing down these parts? Are you a mechanic?
I am not. I trained as one,m for a little, but decided that was not the career path for me. But ive been working on cars since before I could drive haha!
Not to bash Icon, but I personally haven't heard anything great about them. I was looking at Icon for my Taco, but multiple people advised me to maybe look at other manufacturers.
Sucks your having to deal with this on your new baby.....
Yeah I started hearing the same after the fact. I had always thought they were awesome but man I will never look at their products again
what brand of watch is that?
So what keeps the water out where the aftermarket end cap bolts to the rack? I don't see a gasket, seal or silicone.
There is a liquid gasket that I used. Just didn’t show it
@@OFFTHEGRIND gotcha was just curious now that makes more sense lol
Did you preemptively put in ICON tie rods because you wanted stronger ones or because you were lifting the vehicle and wanted to run 37s?
I wanted stronger ones and knew I would eventually lift and put bigger tires on it
@@OFFTHEGRIND I'm sorry you learned the hard way, at least you were in good company and got home safe. I have been biding my time on this issue (I have a 21 Badlands). I recently saw that the 2024 Badlands comes with the HOSS 3.0 steering rack, and I'm inclined to acquire one of those after a while. Hopefully Ford makes a kit to upgrade existing HOSS1/2 vehicles. I suppose you may still need different tie rods and control arms if you're going to lift, but I think the Bronco does just super on 35s and its my daily driver so its not in scope for me.
Hey, great video. I wonder what is the color name of your 2022 Bronco? I would like to have the same one day.
The the carbonized grey! Wasn’t my first choice but it’s a great color! Hope you get one soon
Watched your Vail video. Question, were you on DNR land or Weyerhaeuser land with a permit?? Good luck on the steering issue that is an expensive issue!!
Vail video? I’m not sure what you mean. I can tell you I’ve never been on Weyerhaeuser property. At least not knowingly. Many years ago I ran in to an issue where security claims I was on their property and had printed out maps to “prove” it, but the apps that I used (Gaia and onX) said it was public. Either way, I stay far away from land that is marked as private
My bad I was watching another channel and asked you instead of the person I wanted to know about an area near where I live, sorry for the mix up.@@OFFTHEGRIND
@prophotos365 oh ahaha no worries at all!
I’ve had nothing but problems with ICON and there customer service is awful
I think you just need to zip tie a harmonica in there. Fix it right up lickity spit.
I feel so stupid. Why didn’t I think of that?? 🤦🏻♂️
Leave’r stock boys
But modding is so much fun!!
turn off face tracking on your camera, or when you're showing an item, cover your face then it'll focus what's in front.
You want the Tie Rod to be the weakest link.
Indeed. Which is why I addressed the weak rack with an upgraded end cap
You live and learn. I guess you have to come back to Idaho for a redemption run!
Dude I 1000% will! Be sure to take your vitamins so you can kick it with us lol
@@OFFTHEGRIND 😂 I’m downing vitamin c like my life depends on it!
@frontierstateoverland3816 well shit man it sounds like it does lol! Glad you’re doing good though
@@OFFTHEGRIND doing good and ready to hit the trail!
your mistake was buying a broncrapo
Haha I haven’t heard that one before. Well done
Run the RC stuff, you will come out surprised.
they dont have a company from making bad products.
That stuff will last you for as long as you need bro