I feel like every friendship I make I am fighting for a position within the friend group, always the “fourth one”. Nobody ever talks to me one on one, even on the phone, but when we’re in groups we act like we know each other despite talking over each other and sticking to specific topics of conversation. It’s so fatiguing.
I totally get this feeling with groups of women. I do have two very close male friends, who are also ND in some way. I don't experience the same weirdness in the men, though I'd love to have more women friends. I was never diagnosed (raised to be high masking), but there was a time when I first learned about it that I told a friend in one of the groups I was in at school. She was becoming a therapist. She had been making me her project, and became bitter she was always reaching out to me and had a harder time taking no for an answer. She responded that there was no way I was autistic. We ended up falling out after she kept pushing for more of my time (hanging out once a week was not enough for her), and I told her I didn't have the energy for this and ghosted her. It was a crappy way to handle it, but I was over my limit. In her last message to me, she said she believed I owed her communication. It made me feel like a narcissist. I realized she loved to gossip about our mutual friends, and in the aftermath, I left the friend group to get away from the group without explaining myself. They also dropped me with no followup. So I assumed the former friend had her version to tell. Ironic that I was painted the selfish one. Now I find it easier to maintain friendships with AdHD or other autistic people, regardless of gender.
It's like a glorified, universally accepted and expected, unspoken rule among neurotypicals that you have to create a whole shiny, perfect cookie cutter character for the world to see you as, and they just... Believe in it so wholeheartedly, and I could never understand it even as a young child.
"Naturally, I'm actually a very out-going, warm person but I think throughout time, as I learned how to be more socially appropriate, that's when I started to become extremely introverted." THIS!! I felt this statement because it's so accurate especially relating to my life. For a while now, I've had this theory that masking had caused isolation. I feel like this is a part of it. For most of my life, I've always been introverted but I just don't put myself out there as much as I used to. There are times when I can be extroverted with a small group of people aka my close friends but otherwise, yeah.
Not sure how old you are but you can expect your introversion to deepen or harden quite a bit as you get into your 30s and 40s.. I was much more outgoing and social in my late teens compared to my mid 20s. I was more social and outgoing in my Mid 20s as compared to my mid 30s.. im 39 now and very rarely want to go to any social gathering . Small talk gets harder by the day too
In my late teens and early 20ies I used to appear much more extroverted, too, especially in a new environment (which college and summer jobs were). My most used social script was asking people various questions about themselves, starting from more small talk-ish and following where they wanted to take their story. I was a pretty good listener (seeing as psychology, sociology, ethology and neurology have always been my special interests). The downside was that more than one young man thought I had a crush on him, when I was just interested in learning what kind of a person he was. I will fairly soon be 60, and my eight closest friends are all neurodivergent (this includes my two children and my husband). I don't try to build deeper relationships with NTs anymore, I lost my ability to mask for more than about 15 minutes per day during the Covid lockdowns.
I agree fully. And am so frustrated as a 40 year old woman that I have to change my beautiful brain to be functional in their world. I’m tired of masking just to be accepted. I’m in an extremely small town and it’s been impossible to get along w very low emotional IQ country folks (not all are but this town is ekkkkkkk!) People have now started to take their shunning and frustration out on my kids and family and I’m so done
This. I remember telling a friend how some of the things she did I found annoying and that it was the cause of me distancing myself. Everyone told me I shouldnt have told her that. But I feel like whats the point of friendship if we cant be honest?
From my personal experience, I can think back to many scenarios where I have copied how other women around me dressed and behaved as means of blending in. When neurotypical women try to befriend me, I push them away (more like giving the cold shoulder) because I know that at some point I'll get tired of having to play pretend with them, and I'm not sure how they'd react to the "real" me. A pattern I've noticed with my friendships is that I gravitate towards other women who I suspect are also neurodivergent (it's like gaydar but for neurodivergency lol). My closest childhood friend was also high-functioning autistic, and my current best friend has ADHD. The friendships that I have with neurodivergent women are my closest ones due to a lack of social/cultural expectations. We can just be ourselves.
I copied ppl too, seems like I wanted/sometimes want to be anybody but myself. It’s weird like getting a little piece of new personality traits, or interests. And that’s not to say that I didn’t have my fair share of my own, but I just kind of always felt inadequate. Not necessarily diagnosed, but more word-of-mouth from a psychiatrist, but I watch these videos to understand more and get answers🍀
Love this and am going to work to develop this in my own life I copied people forever and it just ended up in depression and anxiety from trying to be something other than myself.
What you are sharing makes so much sense. I steer clear of groups of women, not because I don't like women, but because I feel like I can't be myself. I've had a few close friends, who actually were more autonomous and masculine in certain ways.
As an autistic woman I had a lot of friends growing up, both girls and boys (though separate groups most of the time) and I just recently started noticing the patterns between the dynamics between me and my friendships with girls and my friendships with guys. With girls it was more intimate, and very intense in the sense that they were very open about their problems and felt like they could be honest with me (but I always struggled with this and never really opened up) one of the toxic things I could remember from most of my friendships with girls is the competition and talking badly behind their backs if they didn’t something wrong or something small that they didn’t like. I never understood that, or why it was a big deal. So it was a lot of fakeness and bitter energy around girls. With guys, I didn’t have this problem, BUT, they often never respected my boundaries, especially physically, and I was subjected to a lot of sexual harassment and SA when I was very young so that was not ok. And no matter how close I got to my guy friends and no matter how much they accepted me, they still saw me as inferior to them. I don’t know how to explain it, but I definitely felt it sometimes. This is just my experience and everyone is different, but I think after years of having questionable and toxic friendships, I much prefer to be alone and I don’t feel any pressure to behave or conform to people’s expectations of me, especially as a woman. And I think women should learn how to be ok with being alone and not feel like they have to be a certain way to be accepted by society.
I personally find other females too judgmental, inauthentic and just not nice. I just can’t feel comfortable around that untrustworthy nature I often sense in them.
I've found this to be true with NT typically heterosexual women, excluding some family members. I'm usually not friends with them long, if at all. They give me the vibes you mention above. But surprisingly I have found ND and or LGBTQ women have always turned into long term friendships (10+ years) or we ended on positive notes just lost touch. I don't have many male friendships but the ones I have made are just as close as most female relationships.
Same here. I always thought I was the problem, but it appears to be I’m not the only one who has the same issue. It’s like other females always talking behind your back? I don’t know how to explain this. My friendship with them never lasted longer than 2-3 years.
@@pizzarolli-r8vI've always wondered if I was just oversensitive (like some people told me) to not want to tolerate this two faced behavior. But I'm happy without it, so 🤷
I'm not a woman so in matter of friendship between them I have no clue how it works, but I totally agreed with what you said about expectation on women. Often I had the impression that women are practically reduced to a biological or social function by both men and women, I always thought it was weird and even weirder when people are "surprised" (in the best cases) that women weren't meeting those obviously unrealistic expectations.
I love this comment section... it gives me hope there are still females in the world who don't seem totally confused and have no identity/personality. Its a lonely existence as an autistic female sometimes when it comes to connecting with other women.
I don’t really have female friendships at all. Unfortunately my experience was I was always attracting narcissists female friends because they could manipulate me and thrived on making me feel bad about being myself. I have since ceased those connections. I do get along exceptionally well with males when it comes to friendships.
I don't have friends either. I wish I had a deep profound friendship like Thought Spot. It seems every interaction with other women is so superficial to me. It seems I start friendship and I think they like me. But, they eventually "drop me off" and go on with their lives, but then act like we are so close. I am going to try to find neurodivergent forum or something.
This is really strange because I must have literally been so oblivious to social structure that I didn't even notice people were copying each other the way you describe. My problem with female friendships has always been inconsistent opinions and behavior. Behavior switching based on context and person that they are with. It unnerved me to see someone mutating their perspective and personality so I kept my distance. I feel a lot more non female after your video because it sounds way more complex than I even imagined.
@@dominusbalial835 curious.. by oaths do you mean like ideals and principles? I resonate with that very much. I don't change that based on who I am with because it defines me and I would feel very terrible about myself if I was not consistent with my ideals. I guess maybe people might perceive that of being selfish and inflexible but really to me it just means fair. I will treat everyone equally regardless of their "status" or relationship with me.
Definitely relate to that fear of losing my personal autonomy and wanting to get away as soon as I notice it. I don’t want to be part of any group. I only want to be myself. Not anyone else.
I thoroughly understood the copying concept, but for me it was in reverse. I was the one copying others trying to fit in. How I dressed, accessories, etc. I convinced myself that that was part of my own identity. This was before my diagnosis. It wasn’t until my world started to fall apart and I sought help, found the answers, and was diagnosed with ASD that I realized everything about me was a false. I was an imitation of others. I throw it ALL out and started a journey of getting to know who I really was and what I really liked. It had been heartbreaking, but liberating at the same time.
I feel this. I commented the same thing. I'm not copying you, honest. Lol But looking back, I have done this my entire life too. Usually people I admire and want to be like. For example a co-worker I had once who is very well-liked I tried to be more like her and dress and mannerisms. I wonder if she noticed. If so it was probably creepy. Reminds me of an old movie "Single White Female". I also think I give people the impression that I like certain music more than I do. I mean, I like the music but I'm not as deeply into the back catalogs and as much of a fan I can name every song title and every band member, but I'll play it off like I am because I want to have that in common with people. It's hard to explain. If I'm texting about a topic that's interesting that they seem to know more about than I do, I'm Googling to keep up the conversation. So you can imagine how in-person conversations flop.
Ah the NT person’s refusal to accept another version of reality other than their own as valid is something that drives me MAD and has made me end more than a few friendships with women. No one is living anyone else’s individual experience. Having the audacity to project your own experience onto others is something I cannot fathom.
What u described makes or breaks a friendship with me I don’t feel sorry anymore about it compared to back then and I no longer deal with as many shifty people bc of that
okay tbh i haven’t finished the video but in the beginning i already feel so happy and safe seeing someone who thinks and talks like me, it’s hard to be so fascinated by the world when no one cares so i’m glad to see someone who does!
Just went to a neuropsych recently and she asked me “have you ever seemed to come off too clingy or want too much attention from your female friends?” How should I know? I’m not them.
Like these questions are so framed so selfishly, it’s astounding. I had to heal from generational karmic curses to even begin to understand my hidden disabilities and not completely incriminate myself in psych interviews when I would get so triggered by being asked if I’m clingy. I wanted friends desperately, I’m not “clingy”(derogatory).
I realize that female friendships are formed around how they can serve men. Don’t expect too much from girls you’re friends with you’ll scare them, but also be there for them when they have relationship struggles, gossip about boys and clothes and makeup and how other girls look. NO WONDER men look at women as if they’re bitchy and crazy.
One way to find out is to get your courage together, and ask your most trusted friend those exact questions when you are in a private setting, and not rushed.
@@joycebrewer4150 and also why would I say “yes I am clingy”? It’s like they want us to tell on ourselves like that makes no sense. I came to get help, not place further blame on myself.
I felt this video so hard. I always wondered why my female friendships, even some of the best ones, either faded out through life or ended in ways that just didn't fully make sense to me at times. This made me really sad through life wondering why I couldn't fully foster and nourish my friendships with other females. Thank you for the work that you do, you are helping many of us feel validated and come to terms with our own things in our lives. 🧡
I struggle with friendships with women in relationships as so much of the conversation involves them complaining about their partners if they have one, or totally focused on whatever guy they are dating or wanting to date. As someone who has chosen to be single rather than settle for being in an unhealthy relationship I find these conversations so uncomfortable! Like is most NT women’s focus almost solely on the men in their lives? It seems that way to me
3 months late but I relate to this comment so much. Rejection sensitivity is one of my autistic traits that I struggle with greatly, so I always ended up in relationships with whoever asked me out - I never chose a partner, I thought I had to just go along with it. This led to relationships that were not fulfilling or in the last case, abusive. I called it off and also decided to be single - my friends at the time were all in committed partnerships and didn’t understand why I’d left mine, they said things like “but all relationships take compromise” and “the struggle is worth it”. They also only spoke about their partners and it became difficult to relate to them. I don’t really hang out with those women anymore, at first it was lonely without friends or a partner but I have learned to be more selective about who I let into my circle as I do love to have friends. Now I have one or two close friends and my family, which is enough
It seems that way yes. But not every girl is like that. It’s important to stay open minded when meeting new girls. Although you have made negative experiences there are girls with interesting personalities and a deep passion for something for example sports or music or something different. Not every girl group is the same but it’s hard to find people with similar minds. I don’t have friends. No female, no male friends. I don’t need them currently any currently but I don’t give up the idea to meet people that I can relate to. They are out there. I know that because superficially I met them and had good conversations.
I think it is yes. I got ghosted by a lot of female friends once they got married. It made me realise how awful and fake these 'friendships' had been, based on usefulness rather than genuinely caring about me. It makes me angry thinking of all those women. I also find it boring and depressing only talking about men, mortgages, houses, children etc. I'd much rather talk about art, design, nature, plants, gardening, animals or business.
I feel like throughout my life, I've been the copycat and taken on other people's ways of dressing, mannerisms, and doing things to fit in with them. But also on the other hand, at different points in high school I always had a best-friend-of-the-moment who was the new kid because I would always befriend the new kid. But it wouldn't take long for them to make other friends and ditch me because their new friend group didn't like me or wasn't friends with me for whatever reason.
Maybe it was because they expected you to copy parts of them to become a part of their group and you didnt or did not copy them well enough. Not saying that yiu should have done that. Talking behind your back can be envy ir you not fitting in. It can be a lot of things.
@@thijsjong I did and maybe I did it too well, but I believe everyone has a right to their own individuality, they still didn’t leave me alone to flourish, the least could have done was hold the space for me, I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes.
@@thijsjong all I wanted was for each one of us to flourish individually and still love each other and create, but maybe that was wishful thinking on my part 🤷♀️
@@thijsjong I can love things easily, and hurts me to feel like if I shine too brightly I’m hurting my female friends. I treat males and females the same.
Unfortunately that happened a few times with other girls too, I learned ND folks are the friends I’ll keep around. anyone that tries to copy or try to get me to copy or always agree with them, t I stop interacting with them entirely and that way I avoid all that said drama; got to be ahead of their game to quit it before they realize I caught on lol 😅
I feel lucky in a way because although my dad has never been diagnosed with autism, I’m very much like him and I’m autistic (dx last yr) he always saw me as a person and not a “girl” and everything that comes with that title. Because of my relationship with my dad I feel I was able to keep my 25+ yr relationship with my two best friends. We are so different and I love it! They love and accept me for who I am. I can’t say they have ever made me feel what you’ve described and I hope they never do. We all met at 15 and we are now entering our 40’s. Thank you for reminding me of how amazing they are! I cry thinking about not everyone having that. Thank you for this video. ❤
Another aspect of mimicry and copying is that women with asd typically use it as a social tool. For me I spend a lot of time analysing not just the social behaviour but also the physical presentation of women and take on those features as a form of masking my asd
Cannot wait to watch this. Update: This might be one of my favorite videos/talks ever uploaded. So many thoughts that I couldn't put into words articulated perfectly. 100% on others projecting their journey/issues/thought process onto you and judging/perceiving you and your behavior based on themselves. I think you might have also mentioned (in another video) that autistic people are esoteric (sorry if I'm wrong there). I used to think my standards were too high in friendships, but now I know they're just very specific. There's a very specific dynamic and level of authenticity someone has to be comfortable with. And when there is I think the confusion won't show itself an issue. Thanks for this vid!
I have noticed that NTs really dont like to upset the equilibrium by expressing any emotions at all, and they are embarrassed by ND expression, so its like they try to wrap us in cotton wool to the point of suffocation.
Never understood why when someone asks you how you are, any answer other than a positive one is met with a look like we're talking about Voldemort, and I'm like... Wish Harry Potter, without the scar and the fame, having to remember every time, that I'm apparently not allowed to say things like that in public, because then i go into shutdown once it gets to the point where it I forget and finally realize when I've said too much or something inappropriate... Because they alienate you too, if it happens too much around the same people.
Saying how you really feel is a perfectly valid response to "Hi, how are you?" People never bring up the second reason for the "Hi, how are you?" Question. I forget the linguistic term for it, but the other thing this question is used for is an implied "Hey. I want to talk/socialize. Can you hear me, and do you want to talk/socialize?" If you answer the question, they assume you heard what they said. And for some neurotypical people, saying you *aren't* happy means they assume you don't want to talk to them. Which is an insane way to do that. At least with "Hey man, have you got a minute?" You can piece together that someone is asking to talk with you, and understands you might not have time to do that. Neurotypicals shouldn't be in charge of language anymore.
Im 45. Really no real friends. But i recently made friends with an older lady who was constantly complimenting me, as im into bodybuilding and i look pretty good. Shed always say things like "you're so hot," etc. Who wouldnt wanna hear that? But it was actually annoying. I told myself to get over it... I was building a badass home gym, and would tell her about it. Bodybuilding has helped me gain control over my life in many ways, and is a huge part of my identity. But then she started sending me pictures of her new home gym and telling me she's lifting weights now, etc. I just pulled away because i felt like i was losing my autonomy. I just didn't know that was a thing until this video... i hae since been diagnosed with ASD and so much makes sense now.
Great topic and discussion. I don't know if I'm autistic but I relate a lot to most adhd traits and some autistic traits. I've been working with a therapist on why I find friendships so difficult. You've mentioned a lot in this video. I've realised I created a socially accepted mask in order to stop being bullied. It worked, I became v popular but then had a breakdown. Then all the friends left. In recovery I connected with my true hobbies and interests and became much more authentic, but that has also correlated with becoming unpopular and having hardly any friends which feels v frustrating. One old friend said I was weird for spending so much time alone before she ghosted me. I find a lot of NT women are only interested in securing a man, having kids, buying a house, getting the kid into a top school. It's all about boasting and status. I find it depressing, boring and shallow. I want to talk about design, colours, patterns, nature, gardening, animals instead. There are so many fascinating things about life but so many people are boring and only interested in work, sex, money, status, TV. I'd like to find some new friends who are more like minded and who accept me for who I am. It's great you have a friend like that.
Omg I resonate with you so much...I have felt that difference in reality and performance in conversations, which makes things so awkward because I always strive for authenticity but don't wanna call someone out on their facade. Yes, women just like all people have inherent value and don't need to prove their worth to society, that is a game we should refuse to play. I LOVE what you said at the end about autistic people seeing people more accurately for who they are, but allistic people being considered more socially "normal" because they value conformity. Just different ways of perceiving people, but one is disapproved of...this is spot on and needs to be talked about more!
I loved this video and have never been able to dissect my confusion around female friendships like this before. The fawning reaction makes so much sense why it’s utilized between us to be seen as non threatening. I have been critical of myself for not having this “social skill” before and now I’m feeling differently. I see the fawning reaction in lots of other areas of my life and I’ve been trying to slow that down. Now I’m kind of grateful it’s not an even worse problem for me than I thought. Anyways, really good food for thought, thanks so much!!
It’s in moments that are truly healthy I think our hurt selves find we’re not deserving of, and if you feel as though you’re a psychopath/sociopath bad person, you’re not. 1) your thoughts aren’t you, your actions are 2) you were born into a system that forces u to see other women as competition, and b/c you’re female you’re bound to run into that issue of “should I be happy?” “Why can’t I just be normal” but you’re feeling the emotions that u should
"I feel like autistic people understand individuals better than allistic people. But I feel like allistic people understand themselves and therefore grander social constructs that reflect that one specific identity a lot better." this is such an interesting point! :D I actually feel like in a group (especially at work!!) I can always clearly understand everybody so much better than the others, even when they are seeing each other as friends while I'm just there not socializing and I often try to be a mediator!
I am just deeply impressed by your skills in perception, observation, analysis and being able to communicate all of it so eloquently. Thank you for this excellent video.
omg.... girl never stop talking please. this channel is the best thing ever im so happy i searched to find you. its super interesting and as i listen the thoughts in me i didn't know existed have woken up. i needed that. i also wish you were my friend :) also can you please make a video on your observation about culture and how it affects identity and camouflaging?
we don't like the merging that occurs in social interactions as depth and uniqueness are not reflected > because we feel the gaps, we often end up being used as the mirror of other's projections : all the collective unspoken, unfelt truths is reflected back at us. Somehow autistic people are more poetic than the norm : why should we keep up with the superficial ? we are attuned to a wider web of feeling/ sensing/ contemplating and thats a gift
Thanks so much for this video, it was so illuminating. I’ve had some turbulent friendships as a teenager and I’d never fully considered the ‘copying’ that you described and how uneasy it made me, coupled with the inability to articulate those feelings directly with the friend in question. I now have much healthier female friendships as an adult, but blamed myself and my own poor communication skills when I broke away from these teenaged friendships - but maybe it’s also just an inherently broken way to encourage girls to relate to one another.
Listening to you feels like as if you had been in my head, as if you were speaking out all the reasonings I had already formed in my head, hours of analytical self conversation that I never had brought to paper or to talked to another person to, i am so glad I found you.
I remember desperately wanting to be a part of a group of friends, when I was a teen. Unfortunately, factors beyond my control had early caused me to be one of two pariahs in my class. I remember Finally getting the fad garment of the time, only to find the following day, that the cool girls no longer wore theirs. As if me being able to meet the group dress code, suddenly drained all the cool out of them.
I really wanted to be in the cool girl group but whenever it's so close to happening I'd do something dumb like not comforting one of them when they're crying (her cat died). I'm already so shy around other girls and it's becoming really hard as I go through cycles of getting and losing girl friends. To the point where most of my friends are guys. I do appreciate my friends but the cool girls only friend group thing will always be at the back of my mind.
@@bruhhhh--- Speaking as someone who successfully managed to join cool girl groups by presenting a diluted version of my real self, I definitely recommend focusing on authentic friendships instead. I'm now 40 with v few friends because all the 'cool girl friends' didn't actually care about me and abandoned me when I started to suffer with depression. I'm now having to look around in the hope of meeting more authentic people, but at 40 it's pretty daunting.
The way you just put it all into words. The last female friendship breakup made me give up. I dread when someone wants to be my friend. I push them away before they can reject me. I’m happily married and have found women tend to become extremely jealous of my relationship and so I don’t discuss it at all. If I don’t share my life they either don’t trust me, or it makes it a one sided relationship where I’m treated like a therapist.
While my closest friends are women, they are both neurodivergent people, one with adhd and one with audhd. Until them I had a hard time making friends with girls, and while I had no friends when I was younger because people found me weird (Went through the same extroversion to introversion issue in my life) I had an easier time talking to boys because I did not recognize the gender expectations of me. When I went to college I fully realized that I didn't really click with any of the other women around me. It was almost as if they had their own language that I just didn't understand. So when I go out and make friends (This is gonna seem so weird but I swear I have a radar for it) I look for people who might be neurodivergent no matter the gender. Its just easier that way and its helped me to be more out going because my fears of social situations are at ease because I know somewhere there is someone like me. And if not, well, it took me a while but I got more comfortable with being my fully neurodivergent self infront of neurotypicals and if they don't like that, I just have reached a point where I don't care.
loved the way you recorded this outside, so refreshing and stepping out of your comfort zone is so valuable to show people that nature is healing for everyone
I can't believe how well you've articulated everything I have felt about female friendships for my whole life. It's such a relief listening to this, and I feel validated in my struggles with forming friendships. Thank you so much for this 💜
This makes so much sense. Why I was bullied in junior high, why some of my fellow students in university tried to "bring me into the fold" etc. I'm not diagnosed so I'm not sure I'm autistic, but I do have quite a lot of autistic traits, and I've struggled to understand a lot of the things you talk about. Thank you. I'm also lucky enough to work at a company where a lot of the employees are neurodivergent, which means I can be myself with them (it's somehow easier with nd people).
This is such an insightful discussion--seriously, thank you for sharing your sensitivity, vulnerability, and intuition 🦋💙 (and everyone in the comments too!) I love autistic women so much, I feel like I can love and understand myself a little bit more each time I come in contact with the community 😭 I’m high-masking in my mid 30s, unaware of my own autism until about 2 years ago. I was always just “secretly different,” and constantly analyzing WHY, HOW, in what subtle ways… I’ve always felt a dynamic in groups of NT women where there is one “leader” elected by the group, and held up as “perfect” or the example of how to be. The rest of the women in the group are expected to celebrate the leader. I think this is a consequence of misogyny, and how women are constantly compared against one another, and seen as competing for male attention. If you don’t fall in line as one of the support choir, the group will reject you. I’ve noticed that there also seems to be a requirement for conformity of personalities - like, there are certain socially-acceptable personality templates, and people seemed to pick one and go with it. (at least it seemed that way from my pov, it happened around the middle school years) In one-on-one female friendships I have ABSOLUTELY noticed that my close friends would “take” parts of my personality!!!! (I honestly thought this had been in my head or something before you said this!!) and I HATED it and it made me withdraw from pursuing relationships with people. It feels to me like someone has taken something deeply personal from me, and it’s not mine anymore, and there’s an emptiness in me where it used to be. Ahhh! Thank you for your insights, seriously
Same here, very open but had to become more introverted for self preservation after masking heavily for years for self preservation but kept burning out.
There's also the calling to spiritual awakening that some people resist, which asks us to go inside and resolve our pain and wounded ego. That can put us on totally different wavelengths and make it tough to remain friends with people who aren't committed to authenticity and growth. Are they dirty looks of confusion or is that a projection?
@@joyceadena it’s a rabbithole and we do have to be careful about who we are influenced by in the spiritual community. They don’t have the answers either, it’s inside of each of us. Learning about and implementing boundaries also helps. ❤️
What you said about there being underlying truths and tensions that noone wants to address always really bothered me, and by addressing them i would unintentionally ruin my female friendships. I find it very difficult to talk with other women because they often withdraw their true views on things unless it has been confirmed as 100% shared by all the group, this could be about anything... sometimes these things are problems within the group which are reeking absolute havoc. i dont really understand the way women talk and my sense of humour is much too masculine for most, which is why i have many male friends. Guys are always up for saying their views and it doenst usually result in a fall out, but the women in the group always stay quiet. I cant put myself through that, i see what i have to say as equal to anyone else. I would love to hear what women have to say but in my experience with female friends its taken me months to tease out an opinion on anything that isnt centered around gossip or surface level topics (and i love to talk about people!). I know women think more than they let on, but it disturbs me that i can be outcasted or unnerve women by stating my views on things. This isnt because i dont want to hear contrary opinions, because i often leave room open for discussion but when i do this im met with very mild watered down responses. Maybe im expecting too much? Either way, the ways in which im expected to copy and repress myself are unbareable to me. I have tried many times in order to make frienships with women, and also tried to tone down my masculine sense of humour, but i end up feeling such anxiety, stress and confusion it just doesnt seem worth it. Even if nothing is going wrong i find myself ejecting myself from the group. I really am missing feminine energy in my life, but i just am unable to shape myself into the right mold for this to happen. It makes me very sad when im with my group of friends, and find myself excluded when the women talk, as much as i love my male friends and feel much more at ease around them. I think also ivehad such bad experiences with women my anxiety really goes skyhigh if im somehow in a group of them.
me and NT girls just never seemed to mesh and honestly led me to resenting girls as a whole for a while. i have a couple friendships with ND girls now and it’s very refreshing. throughout grade school i always felt like girls were out to get me for simply existing in the “wrong” way. my high school friend group was a mix of guys and girls but soon enough we had to move away from the girls because they could not stop picking fights with each other. things weren’t exactly perfect with my male friends but i found it funny how i could be more emotionally open and even felt more physically safe around them than around the girls, the girls felt like they wanted me for a weird pet project and then dumped me when i wasn’t of use anymore.
I am not all the way through the video yet, but I just wanted to throw out an idea: About copying/mirroring each other's hobbies and activities. I think that part of this is a survival mechanism that is created due to wanting to increase contact with female friends. As a parent and an adult woman, it's extremely hard to find time to meet with friends. Being in the same place at the same time is really tricky. If I don't work or live near a friend, it's extremely hard to be able to meet without scheduling issues. I know that you are talking about school, so it's not particularly relevant, but I just wanted to throw this out. I feel like you are convincing me that I'm undiagnosed autistic because I've always had this innate confidence in showing up as myself without caring if it scares away other ppl. I can always find the real ones when I show up loud and proud and kind and respectful to all around me. I didn't know that that was a sign of autism, I just figured it made sense because I'm usually the most outgoing of my friends. Thanks for sharing your insight! I'm really enjoying your content
I don't find female friendships fulfilling it took me so long to say the truth to myself, but it is what it is, women like to be with women who are just like them in every sense and at times it can be suffocating,it's not for me
32:07 yes exactly 💯. You’ve said this perfectly. I look at everyone with acceptance and understand why they are that way. I take notes on how ppl communicate and ways I can probably get better, but no one gives that same compassion to us. I haven’t been diagnosed but I agree
The dichotomy ally/threat is helpful to understand why with some women it's very difficult to get along with for me. Especially with the idea that we need to be similar to get along when in reality we're not. I hate to lie but I still do sometimes, and I suck at it. So that's when it gets messy because a lot of people can feel some kind of inauthenticity.. the level of masking and camouflaging is pretty high :') I also experience it online even though I'm anonymous - I haven't seen that subject being talked about yet, if you did I'd loved to hear it. I get really confused when people don't seem to care or see beyond the act. They're bonding with a shadow of myself in a way, that's scary for me, even though I'm responsible of that in a way but I don't feel safe. It's even worse when women are projecting the idea of who I can be because of how I look and they insist in wanting to get closer when we're not similar. And I have trying to be that person they were looking for every single time because I didn't know who to be, I wanted friends. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, it's helpful to reflect on past experiences and what I'm looking for today. I definitely want to be close to people who are themselves and give me space to be myself too!
I find it in every aspect, with every person I ever meet. only a few people (less than 5) in my entire life have made me feel comfortable and understood
We moved every year until high school, so it wasn't really until high school that I had a chance to make long term friends. And I failed miserably lol My problem was that if I didn't like someone, I couldn't pretend to be their friend, and I felt like if you were talking bad about someone you shouldn't be their friend. I had a really hard time with all the things I felt were dishonest and disingenuous. Looking back, it was a lot of kid stuff. But at the time I just felt like I couldn't trust anyone because no one was really honest. I ended up having a huge meltdown at a school dance and just burned every bridge.
Having one friendship with a girl, we are in some ways very similar, both INFJs, both Sun and Venus in Pisces, both of us prone to feeling depressed. I went to therapy for dysthymia, now I figured out I might have autism (not diagnosed yet), the friend of mine tried therapy but stopped, I feel for her so much when she seems down, which seems to be often, but sadly our friendship works best when I go through rougher times, but when I manage to work on myself to become more happy it seems like there is a disconnect. I tried to encourage her to take some action, but then it was taken the wrong way, like I was bragging that I managed to get better but she didn't. Makes me really sad because I emphasize with her very much, but she doesn't like being helped and I don't think it's good to be in a relationship that only works when both of us feel bad about ourselves.
just wanna say, so happy to have found my corner! 🥺 embarrassing to admit, but for the longest time I put off watching “female autistic experience” videos because, every one I watched didn’t reflect the kind of deep, visceral suffering I experience on the daily. But I soon realised that my life isn’t *all* suffering, and my need to alienate myself stems from growing up alienated as a kid. I’m tormented by the feeling that I don’t truly “connect” with anyone, *especially* other women (thanks, bullying), but that creates my trust issues. Tbh I just wanted to vent a little, so thankyou for holding this space for me.
also, just floating this out there, but any other autistic women not experience jealousy? I’m not trying to sound arrogant, I just rarely experience it 🤷🏻♀️ I want to celebrate other women, purely for their uniqueness.
And adding onto this - can I just say… I have resonated with everything you have said… I haven’t felt so seen in, forever. Thankyou so much! 😭 This has been super refreshing for me.
What you said is exactly what I think or have felt about this topic. One of the most relatable videos I have seen! This is going in my save folder for sure. I’m hoping to direct my research for my Ph.D. around women diagnosed with autism and struggles we face. Nice job.
Only part way through this video, saw the one about male friendships first. I'm an autistic cis man and I really appreciate you're inisight into both topics. Great stuff. Its giving me a lot to think about
I resonate a lot with this! I think I’ve always felt that I would eventually finally get “good” at blending in with more neurotypical folks and assumed that’s what everyone else was doing too. But I never got good at it, I just got better at hiding the authentic version of me. Now I have several friendships where I feel seen and I also have been learning how to be a better more giving friend now that I’m tapping into the authenticity that’s there. :)
you are so honest, so true , thank you . i feel like you try to trust in your own opinion and thats almost the most important take away from your videos
I find friendships really difficult because I always feel like there's something missing on my part, like im supposed to care about the other person on some level that im not grasping. I think it's a trauma response paired with an anxious attachment style. Having friends is something that's out of reach for me at the moment but it sucks when societal expectations are so high.
My traditional Chinese mother is even more behind in that she says you can’t rely on your female friends because they won’t be there for you forever (true). So she says I need to find a husband 🙄🙄🙄.
@Lo-re5pf marriage is patriarchal. All the marriages I’ve been to the priest talks about the wife serving her husband and submitting to him and him being the protector and stuff. How is that so great?
Yesss!!! these points are very true! It makes me reflect on my relationships and friendships with women and evaluate whether or not there is shared joy or if our relationship is based off competition. My closest friends feel like joy for me 💘 thank u for this video;
19:36 this! It’s just a matter of respect in relationships, this makes me reflect on ways I’ve been disrespectful to others and ways I can be more respectful. other humans are complex beings just like me with their own life story and own life goals. Their own brain that was shaped by their environment, life experiences, and what their ancestors experienced.
Always enjoy and appreciate seeing you and your YT. New environment outside is refreshing. Wish there weren’t those unnatural towers in the background and I couldn’t help from being slightly distracted by them as I wanted to remove them (which is apparently possible with the new tech but wouldn’t be honest). Anyhow, thanks for this.
these type of experiences have always made me feel so excluded from my own gender. friend groups sometimes feel like VIP clubs where I could never fully be part of
I know I’m late to this video but I absolutey appreciate and love this video you made because it explained and broke down and explained the aspect of female friendships in a way that I felt like I never could❤❤
Girl, I have mercury in aquarius too!! If you wouldnt mind, since you mentioned your mercury sign, can you share your birth chart and discuss astrology (if youre comfortable)? Because omg not only am i also an INFJ, i have mercury, venus, AND mars in aquarius. Im so curious if theres a strong correlation between having aquarius placements with autism in women from an astrological perspective. Wow. As always I resonate so much with every single video you share. Youve been a huge step in my journey to getting an autism diagnosis. Thank you so much. Edit: i just got to the part where you talk about detaching and fearing losing yourself and assimilating into a group. Oh my god, i resonate SO much with this. I never liked being in cliques, i was known for camouflaging and jumping between different friend groups. Now im in a place in my life where im stuck in the same group of colleagues/friends at my job and i like these ppl, but i cant STAND assimilating into the group. I didnt want to relate to them, i didnt want to have the same interests they all had. It was like an echo chamber. I went through a period the last year of strongly isolating and pulling away and even feeling resentlful. You just validating all of the things im feeling omg. Yes yes yes. All of this.
As a guy, was extremely into your talk and found it very helpful, at 13:00 regarding patriarchal matriarchal stuff, I appreciated how you dissected women's interactions with each other, the way you did it sounded very similar to evolutionary explanations for behaviors, just with some new age terms.
did I miss like a whole chapter of what being a girl is like.. cuz I never seen the phenomenon of us trying to look like each other? or never noticed? sharing hobbies or taking each other's speech patterns sure (that is normal for friendship imo, people who think you are stealing their talking style low key scare me, like what? starting to have similarities in that is natural) but copying clothes, hairstyles? I mean maybe they were just inspired? :\ but for it to be a whole thing all friends do? I'm not sure I know what this is about. Maybe because in childhood and teen years I barely ever had groups, more like one friend for each place I went to :D
Perhaps it's because I'm agender (AFAB,) but in my childhood, I didn't grasp that the concept of gender existed so most of my (fleeting) friendships dealt solely in shared hobbies. It wasn't until I was a teen that I started to understand gender roles/dynamics and mostly stuck to friendships with girls because boys just refused to be vulnerable at any point. My friendships were/are still based in hobbies but now as a teen/adult, I could go deeper and ask more personal questions, which I had learned early on as a kid was "inappropriate."
re: being OK after your breakup...I wonder if NTs just in general can't accept when you say something about your own experience. I've had so many times they try to tell me I really must feel something different than I do, because that is what they would feel. It makes no sense to me but it happens a lot.
For as long as I can remember friendships have always been really difficult to me. Since I was a a child I remember my friendship with both girls and boys being like there was a wall between them and me. I knew my brain worked differently to theirs, I could understand them after many years of observing other people but they could never understand me. Aa a child and still to this day I try to talk to or befriend people who looked left out or lonely because I know other people didn't and don't like to be alone even though I did and still do. I've always thought thought I was just put in earth to walk alone in a sense. I was reading many peoples comments under this video that have lived similar experiences of thinking we were put in earth to be alone and it was very encouraging to me. I will say being alone is easier but I do sometimes wish I had a better ability to make and keep strong relationships outside of my family.
OMG it’s like you get my whole life. I was just diagnosed and it all makes sense. I’ve always thought that too I’m either seen as a threat or ally, and it hurt because I am my true self just because I like it I’m not competing with anyone about anything at all. I think we stand out for our “uniqueness” and they secretly hate that. It sucks :(
You have to comprehend that they have absolutely no idea about what we see, I see no sense in small talk, i care about how are we going to keep our species alive for the next 200 years. These are fantastic insights, when i decide to place myself into those dynamics, i have to go in planned, and a plan for that that plan if it goes bad. After the whole rona hysteria, i saw our species for pur true selves, and it's like i hallucinated the whole thing, people have either the shortest memory, or something else is at play.
Daaang... I was a "smart kid" and sometimes I hold back on answering questions (even when I know the answer) because I'm afraid of taking opportunities from other people (even when they don't seem interested at all) and making other people feel stupid by comparison. I guess I'm just projecting my insecurities on them, because *I* constantly compared (and still compare) myself to others and felt bad whenever someone else did better than me.
I wish there was a chance of having these type of conversations without being lumped in to the NLOG category and caricature. This is not about fighting over the attention of boys, heck that's likely one of the reasons we feel so marginalized in the first place, because for us it's not all about boys and romantic relationships. There have been times I've felt hating on my own gender, but it all came from a place of frustration and loneliness. I wanted so badly to be included and able to bond with other women , but the obsession my peers had with being a girlfriend to a boy, a wife to a husband and just their entire being dedicated into realizing their stereotypical, sexist roles of a woman, left me in despair and isolated for the majority of my life.
This is awesome. Thank you for expressing your feelings so beautifully - it really does resonate. I am a late commentor and maybe you have already explored this topic, but is there a chance you could speak on the instances where friends or associates who are also neurodivergent, _yet_ able to successfully mask, end up alienating, outing, dismissing or othering those on the spectrum who are not able to do so. I hope that makes sense. There is someone at my work who has displayed certain behaviors that are in line with neurodivergence, but is also able to mask and has joined with those who are bullying me. I know this is not uncommon and I would love to hear if you have experience with this and/or the experiences that others will share in the comments.
God, you speak on multiple shared experiences... Really enjoyed this talk. Thank you for creating it. You're inspiring and encouraging. Loved the soft hand pan playing in the background too 🫶 take care
The bit about the copying was a real thing for me recently. This person did let me know their self esteem was low & image of self wasn't good. The littlest things she did in "admiration" of me drove me mad & made me stop wanting to engage with her. I couldn't take it because I feel like I've gone through so much to get to this self acceptance stage & what I pride myself in is my quirks & overall personality. It was something I pointed out to her & it kinda did not stop & spilled over into her using my verbiage & phrases 🙃 She's an INFJ😂 & I'm an INFP. I really want to refer to this person with bad names because it makes me so irritable thinking about it. Like just be yourself!! Damn, I'm trying to get to know & love YOU FOR YOU, not for you wanting to be like me 😭
I feel like every friendship I make I am fighting for a position within the friend group, always the “fourth one”. Nobody ever talks to me one on one, even on the phone, but when we’re in groups we act like we know each other despite talking over each other and sticking to specific topics of conversation. It’s so fatiguing.
This is exactly why I refuse to do friend grps.
Spot on
I totally get this feeling with groups of women. I do have two very close male friends, who are also ND in some way. I don't experience the same weirdness in the men, though I'd love to have more women friends.
I was never diagnosed (raised to be high masking), but there was a time when I first learned about it that I told a friend in one of the groups I was in at school. She was becoming a therapist. She had been making me her project, and became bitter she was always reaching out to me and had a harder time taking no for an answer. She responded that there was no way I was autistic. We ended up falling out after she kept pushing for more of my time (hanging out once a week was not enough for her), and I told her I didn't have the energy for this and ghosted her. It was a crappy way to handle it, but I was over my limit. In her last message to me, she said she believed I owed her communication. It made me feel like a narcissist.
I realized she loved to gossip about our mutual friends, and in the aftermath, I left the friend group to get away from the group without explaining myself. They also dropped me with no followup. So I assumed the former friend had her version to tell.
Ironic that I was painted the selfish one. Now I find it easier to maintain friendships with AdHD or other autistic people, regardless of gender.
As a boy, I've had the same feeling for the longest time. I've almost never had any 'besties', instead always getting the bronze medal.
@@ratlinggull2223frrr
It's like a glorified, universally accepted and expected, unspoken rule among neurotypicals that you have to create a whole shiny, perfect cookie cutter character for the world to see you as, and they just... Believe in it so wholeheartedly, and I could never understand it even as a young child.
Wow I relate so much , well said
It’s probably a tribal instinct thing
i relate to this comment so much. i initially have to be a different person to be understood. :(
I'm happy I never cared about that false sense of perfection. Saved me a lot of headache trying to reason it out
I literally thought you meant actual cookie cutters haha
"Naturally, I'm actually a very out-going, warm person but I think throughout time, as I learned how to be more socially appropriate, that's when I started to become extremely introverted." THIS!! I felt this statement because it's so accurate especially relating to my life. For a while now, I've had this theory that masking had caused isolation. I feel like this is a part of it. For most of my life, I've always been introverted but I just don't put myself out there as much as I used to. There are times when I can be extroverted with a small group of people aka my close friends but otherwise, yeah.
I see my spectrum sweetie in this, too.
Not sure how old you are but you can expect your introversion to deepen or harden quite a bit as you get into your 30s and 40s.. I was much more outgoing and social in my late teens compared to my mid 20s. I was more social and outgoing in my
Mid 20s as compared to my mid 30s.. im 39 now and very rarely want to go to any social gathering . Small talk gets harder by the day too
In my late teens and early 20ies I used to appear much more extroverted, too, especially in a new environment (which college and summer jobs were).
My most used social script was asking people various questions about themselves, starting from more small talk-ish and following where they wanted to take their story. I was a pretty good listener (seeing as psychology, sociology, ethology and neurology have always been my special interests). The downside was that more than one young man thought I had a crush on him, when I was just interested in learning what kind of a person he was.
I will fairly soon be 60, and my eight closest friends are all neurodivergent (this includes my two children and my husband). I don't try to build deeper relationships with NTs anymore, I lost my ability to mask for more than about 15 minutes per day during the Covid lockdowns.
I agree fully.
And am so frustrated as a 40 year old woman that I have to change my beautiful brain to be functional in their world. I’m tired of masking just to be accepted.
I’m in an extremely small town and it’s been impossible to get along w very low emotional IQ country folks (not all are but this town is ekkkkkkk!)
People have now started to take their shunning and frustration out on my kids and family and I’m so done
It’s almost like we’re punished for telling the truth
This. I remember telling a friend how some of the things she did I found annoying and that it was the cause of me distancing myself. Everyone told me I shouldnt have told her that. But I feel like whats the point of friendship if we cant be honest?
From my personal experience, I can think back to many scenarios where I have copied how other women around me dressed and behaved as means of blending in. When neurotypical women try to befriend me, I push them away (more like giving the cold shoulder) because I know that at some point I'll get tired of having to play pretend with them, and I'm not sure how they'd react to the "real" me. A pattern I've noticed with my friendships is that I gravitate towards other women who I suspect are also neurodivergent (it's like gaydar but for neurodivergency lol). My closest childhood friend was also high-functioning autistic, and my current best friend has ADHD. The friendships that I have with neurodivergent women are my closest ones due to a lack of social/cultural expectations. We can just be ourselves.
I copied ppl too, seems like I wanted/sometimes want to be anybody but myself. It’s weird like getting a little piece of new personality traits, or interests. And that’s not to say that I didn’t have my fair share of my own, but I just kind of always felt inadequate.
Not necessarily diagnosed, but more word-of-mouth from a psychiatrist, but I watch these videos to understand more and get answers🍀
Love this and am going to work to develop this in my own life
I copied people forever and it just ended up in depression and anxiety from trying to be something other than myself.
“These aren’t conversations people have in real life” YES
What you are sharing makes so much sense. I steer clear of groups of women, not because I don't like women, but because I feel like I can't be myself. I've had a few close friends, who actually were more autonomous and masculine in certain ways.
As an autistic woman I had a lot of friends growing up, both girls and boys (though separate groups most of the time) and I just recently started noticing the patterns between the dynamics between me and my friendships with girls and my friendships with guys. With girls it was more intimate, and very intense in the sense that they were very open about their problems and felt like they could be honest with me (but I always struggled with this and never really opened up) one of the toxic things I could remember from most of my friendships with girls is the competition and talking badly behind their backs if they didn’t something wrong or something small that they didn’t like. I never understood that, or why it was a big deal. So it was a lot of fakeness and bitter energy around girls. With guys, I didn’t have this problem, BUT, they often never respected my boundaries, especially physically, and I was subjected to a lot of sexual harassment and SA when I was very young so that was not ok. And no matter how close I got to my guy friends and no matter how much they accepted me, they still saw me as inferior to them. I don’t know how to explain it, but I definitely felt it sometimes. This is just my experience and everyone is different, but I think after years of having questionable and toxic friendships, I much prefer to be alone and I don’t feel any pressure to behave or conform to people’s expectations of me, especially as a woman. And I think women should learn how to be ok with being alone and not feel like they have to be a certain way to be accepted by society.
Totally can relate 🙏🏽
THIS
@@queenofhorror29 Asbolute truth spoke in the end !
I personally find other females too judgmental, inauthentic and just not nice. I just can’t feel comfortable around that untrustworthy nature I often sense in them.
Same here!! 🙋 You are not alone.
I've found this to be true with NT typically heterosexual women, excluding some family members. I'm usually not friends with them long, if at all. They give me the vibes you mention above. But surprisingly I have found ND and or LGBTQ women have always turned into long term friendships (10+ years) or we ended on positive notes just lost touch. I don't have many male friendships but the ones I have made are just as close as most female relationships.
Same here. I always thought I was the problem, but it appears to be I’m not the only one who has the same issue. It’s like other females always talking behind your back? I don’t know how to explain this. My friendship with them never lasted longer than 2-3 years.
@@pizzarolli-r8vI've always wondered if I was just oversensitive (like some people told me) to not want to tolerate this two faced behavior. But I'm happy without it, so 🤷
@@pizzarolli-r8vyou can just say women it’s not hard
The subtlety of Autism is something so tricky to explain to non-Autists, but you do an amazing job of it. So grateful.
Absolutely! I really like listening to your thoughts. You have so many profound and thought provoking observations.
I'm not a woman so in matter of friendship between them I have no clue how it works, but I totally agreed with what you said about expectation on women. Often I had the impression that women are practically reduced to a biological or social function by both men and women, I always thought it was weird and even weirder when people are "surprised" (in the best cases) that women weren't meeting those obviously unrealistic expectations.
I love this comment section... it gives me hope there are still females in the world who don't seem totally confused and have no identity/personality. Its a lonely existence as an autistic female sometimes when it comes to connecting with other women.
I don’t really have female friendships at all. Unfortunately my experience was I was always attracting narcissists female friends because they could manipulate me and thrived on making me feel bad about being myself. I have since ceased those connections. I do get along exceptionally well with males when it comes to friendships.
I don't have friends either. I wish I had a deep profound friendship like Thought Spot. It seems every interaction with other women is so superficial to me. It seems I start friendship and I think they like me. But, they eventually "drop me off" and go on with their lives, but then act like we are so close. I am going to try to find neurodivergent forum or something.
@@princess199799unfortunately that’s what it boils down too. The friends I have they have ND tendencies bc they also don’t have anyone else
This!!!
This is really strange because I must have literally been so oblivious to social structure that I didn't even notice people were copying each other the way you describe. My problem with female friendships has always been inconsistent opinions and behavior. Behavior switching based on context and person that they are with. It unnerved me to see someone mutating their perspective and personality so I kept my distance. I feel a lot more non female after your video because it sounds way more complex than I even imagined.
@@dominusbalial835 curious.. by oaths do you mean like ideals and principles? I resonate with that very much. I don't change that based on who I am with because it defines me and I would feel very terrible about myself if I was not consistent with my ideals. I guess maybe people might perceive that of being selfish and inflexible but really to me it just means fair. I will treat everyone equally regardless of their "status" or relationship with me.
Definitely relate to that fear of losing my personal autonomy and wanting to get away as soon as I notice it. I don’t want to be part of any group. I only want to be myself. Not anyone else.
I thoroughly understood the copying concept, but for me it was in reverse. I was the one copying others trying to fit in. How I dressed, accessories, etc. I convinced myself that that was part of my own identity. This was before my diagnosis. It wasn’t until my world started to fall apart and I sought help, found the answers, and was diagnosed with ASD that I realized everything about me was a false. I was an imitation of others. I throw it ALL out and started a journey of getting to know who I really was and what I really liked. It had been heartbreaking, but liberating at the same time.
I feel this. I commented the same thing. I'm not copying you, honest. Lol But looking back, I have done this my entire life too. Usually people I admire and want to be like. For example a co-worker I had once who is very well-liked I tried to be more like her and dress and mannerisms. I wonder if she noticed. If so it was probably creepy. Reminds me of an old movie "Single White Female". I also think I give people the impression that I like certain music more than I do. I mean, I like the music but I'm not as deeply into the back catalogs and as much of a fan I can name every song title and every band member, but I'll play it off like I am because I want to have that in common with people. It's hard to explain. If I'm texting about a topic that's interesting that they seem to know more about than I do, I'm Googling to keep up the conversation. So you can imagine how in-person conversations flop.
About your stable friend - she sounds like a friend because she reached out. *That* is a rare gem and is worth crying about.
Kinda relatable wow
Ah the NT person’s refusal to accept another version of reality other than their own as valid is something that drives me MAD and has made me end more than a few friendships with women. No one is living anyone else’s individual experience. Having the audacity to project your own experience onto others is something I cannot fathom.
What u described makes or breaks a friendship with me I don’t feel sorry anymore about it compared to back then and I no longer deal with as many shifty people bc of that
I can relate. It's like they're a brick wall, but aggressive. Reactive and quick to turn once they push their narrative enough.
Arg yes this!
has made me end more friendships with men tbqh...
okay tbh i haven’t finished the video but in the beginning i already feel so happy and safe seeing someone who thinks and talks like me, it’s hard to be so fascinated by the world when no one cares so i’m glad to see someone who does!
Just went to a neuropsych recently and she asked me “have you ever seemed to come off too clingy or want too much attention from your female friends?” How should I know? I’m not them.
Like these questions are so framed so selfishly, it’s astounding. I had to heal from generational karmic curses to even begin to understand my hidden disabilities and not completely incriminate myself in psych interviews when I would get so triggered by being asked if I’m clingy. I wanted friends desperately, I’m not “clingy”(derogatory).
I realize that female friendships are formed around how they can serve men. Don’t expect too much from girls you’re friends with you’ll scare them, but also be there for them when they have relationship struggles, gossip about boys and clothes and makeup and how other girls look. NO WONDER men look at women as if they’re bitchy and crazy.
One way to find out is to get your courage together, and ask your most trusted friend those exact questions when you are in a private setting, and not rushed.
@@joycebrewer4150 I don’t have any trusted friend, they bully me and run away.
@@joycebrewer4150 and also why would I say “yes I am clingy”? It’s like they want us to tell on ourselves like that makes no sense. I came to get help, not place further blame on myself.
I felt this video so hard. I always wondered why my female friendships, even some of the best ones, either faded out through life or ended in ways that just didn't fully make sense to me at times. This made me really sad through life wondering why I couldn't fully foster and nourish my friendships with other females. Thank you for the work that you do, you are helping many of us feel validated and come to terms with our own things in our lives. 🧡
I struggle with friendships with women in relationships as so much of the conversation involves them complaining about their partners if they have one, or totally focused on whatever guy they are dating or wanting to date.
As someone who has chosen to be single rather than settle for being in an unhealthy relationship I find these conversations so uncomfortable! Like is most NT women’s focus almost solely on the men in their lives? It seems that way to me
3 months late but I relate to this comment so much. Rejection sensitivity is one of my autistic traits that I struggle with greatly, so I always ended up in relationships with whoever asked me out - I never chose a partner, I thought I had to just go along with it. This led to relationships that were not fulfilling or in the last case, abusive.
I called it off and also decided to be single - my friends at the time were all in committed partnerships and didn’t understand why I’d left mine, they said things like “but all relationships take compromise” and “the struggle is worth it”. They also only spoke about their partners and it became difficult to relate to them.
I don’t really hang out with those women anymore, at first it was lonely without friends or a partner but I have learned to be more selective about who I let into my circle as I do love to have friends. Now I have one or two close friends and my family, which is enough
It seems that way yes. But not every girl is like that. It’s important to stay open minded when meeting new girls. Although you have made negative experiences there are girls with interesting personalities and a deep passion for something for example sports or music or something different. Not every girl group is the same but it’s hard to find people with similar minds.
I don’t have friends. No female, no male friends. I don’t need them currently any currently but I don’t give up the idea to meet people that I can relate to. They are out there. I know that because superficially I met them and had good conversations.
I think it is yes. I got ghosted by a lot of female friends once they got married. It made me realise how awful and fake these 'friendships' had been, based on usefulness rather than genuinely caring about me. It makes me angry thinking of all those women. I also find it boring and depressing only talking about men, mortgages, houses, children etc. I'd much rather talk about art, design, nature, plants, gardening, animals or business.
@katec9893 yes! So agree!
I think this is a very boring aspect of female friendship
I love that you sprinkled astrology into this. I’m so obsessed with astrology and it’s my special interest lol
I feel like throughout my life, I've been the copycat and taken on other people's ways of dressing, mannerisms, and doing things to fit in with them. But also on the other hand, at different points in high school I always had a best-friend-of-the-moment who was the new kid because I would always befriend the new kid. But it wouldn't take long for them to make other friends and ditch me because their new friend group didn't like me or wasn't friends with me for whatever reason.
I remember girls I thought were my friends were copying parts of me, but couldn’t be me, so they started trash talking me behind my back
Maybe it was because they expected you to copy parts of them to become a part of their group and you didnt or did not copy them well enough.
Not saying that yiu should have done that.
Talking behind your back can be envy ir you not fitting in. It can be a lot of things.
@@thijsjong I did and maybe I did it too well, but I believe everyone has a right to their own individuality, they still didn’t leave me alone to flourish, the least could have done was hold the space for me, I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes.
@@thijsjong all I wanted was for each one of us to flourish individually and still love each other and create, but maybe that was wishful thinking on my part 🤷♀️
@@thijsjong I can love things easily, and hurts me to feel like if I shine too brightly I’m hurting my female friends. I treat males and females the same.
Unfortunately that happened a few times with other girls too, I learned ND folks are the friends I’ll keep around. anyone that tries to copy or try to get me to copy or always agree with them, t I stop interacting with them entirely and that way I avoid all that said drama; got to be ahead of their game to quit it before they realize I caught on lol 😅
I feel lucky in a way because although my dad has never been diagnosed with autism, I’m very much like him and I’m autistic (dx last yr) he always saw me as a person and not a “girl” and everything that comes with that title. Because of my relationship with my dad I feel I was able to keep my 25+ yr relationship with my two best friends. We are so different and I love it! They love and accept me for who I am. I can’t say they have ever made me feel what you’ve described and I hope they never do. We all met at 15 and we are now entering our 40’s.
Thank you for reminding me of how amazing they are! I cry thinking about not everyone having that.
Thank you for this video. ❤
Another aspect of mimicry and copying is that women with asd typically use it as a social tool. For me I spend a lot of time analysing not just the social behaviour but also the physical presentation of women and take on those features as a form of masking my asd
Cannot wait to watch this.
Update: This might be one of my favorite videos/talks ever uploaded. So many thoughts that I couldn't put into words articulated perfectly. 100% on others projecting their journey/issues/thought process onto you and judging/perceiving you and your behavior based on themselves. I think you might have also mentioned (in another video) that autistic people are esoteric (sorry if I'm wrong there). I used to think my standards were too high in friendships, but now I know they're just very specific. There's a very specific dynamic and level of authenticity someone has to be comfortable with. And when there is I think the confusion won't show itself an issue. Thanks for this vid!
I have noticed that NTs really dont like to upset the equilibrium by expressing any emotions at all, and they are embarrassed by ND expression, so its like they try to wrap us in cotton wool to the point of suffocation.
Never understood why when someone asks you how you are, any answer other than a positive one is met with a look like we're talking about Voldemort, and I'm like... Wish Harry Potter, without the scar and the fame, having to remember every time, that I'm apparently not allowed to say things like that in public, because then i go into shutdown once it gets to the point where it I forget and finally realize when I've said too much or something inappropriate... Because they alienate you too, if it happens too much around the same people.
Saying how you really feel is a perfectly valid response to "Hi, how are you?"
People never bring up the second reason for the "Hi, how are you?" Question.
I forget the linguistic term for it, but the other thing this question is used for is an implied "Hey. I want to talk/socialize. Can you hear me, and do you want to talk/socialize?"
If you answer the question, they assume you heard what they said.
And for some neurotypical people, saying you *aren't* happy means they assume you don't want to talk to them.
Which is an insane way to do that. At least with "Hey man, have you got a minute?" You can piece together that someone is asking to talk with you, and understands you might not have time to do that.
Neurotypicals shouldn't be in charge of language anymore.
Im 45. Really no real friends. But i recently made friends with an older lady who was constantly complimenting me, as im into bodybuilding and i look pretty good. Shed always say things like "you're so hot," etc. Who wouldnt wanna hear that? But it was actually annoying. I told myself to get over it... I was building a badass home gym, and would tell her about it. Bodybuilding has helped me gain control over my life in many ways, and is a huge part of my identity. But then she started sending me pictures of her new home gym and telling me she's lifting weights now, etc. I just pulled away because i felt like i was losing my autonomy. I just didn't know that was a thing until this video... i hae since been diagnosed with ASD and so much makes sense now.
I hope you are happy now
Great topic and discussion. I don't know if I'm autistic but I relate a lot to most adhd traits and some autistic traits. I've been working with a therapist on why I find friendships so difficult. You've mentioned a lot in this video. I've realised I created a socially accepted mask in order to stop being bullied. It worked, I became v popular but then had a breakdown. Then all the friends left. In recovery I connected with my true hobbies and interests and became much more authentic, but that has also correlated with becoming unpopular and having hardly any friends which feels v frustrating. One old friend said I was weird for spending so much time alone before she ghosted me. I find a lot of NT women are only interested in securing a man, having kids, buying a house, getting the kid into a top school. It's all about boasting and status. I find it depressing, boring and shallow. I want to talk about design, colours, patterns, nature, gardening, animals instead. There are so many fascinating things about life but so many people are boring and only interested in work, sex, money, status, TV. I'd like to find some new friends who are more like minded and who accept me for who I am. It's great you have a friend like that.
Omg I resonate with you so much...I have felt that difference in reality and performance in conversations, which makes things so awkward because I always strive for authenticity but don't wanna call someone out on their facade. Yes, women just like all people have inherent value and don't need to prove their worth to society, that is a game we should refuse to play. I LOVE what you said at the end about autistic people seeing people more accurately for who they are, but allistic people being considered more socially "normal" because they value conformity. Just different ways of perceiving people, but one is disapproved of...this is spot on and needs to be talked about more!
I loved this video and have never been able to dissect my confusion around female friendships like this before. The fawning reaction makes so much sense why it’s utilized between us to be seen as non threatening. I have been critical of myself for not having this “social skill” before and now I’m feeling differently. I see the fawning reaction in lots of other areas of my life and I’ve been trying to slow that down. Now I’m kind of grateful it’s not an even worse problem for me than I thought. Anyways, really good food for thought, thanks so much!!
It’s in moments that are truly healthy I think our hurt selves find we’re not deserving of, and if you feel as though you’re a psychopath/sociopath bad person, you’re not. 1) your thoughts aren’t you, your actions are
2) you were born into a system that forces u to see other women as competition, and b/c you’re female you’re bound to run into that issue of “should I be happy?” “Why can’t I just be normal” but you’re feeling the emotions that u should
This taught me how to be better friend and how to analyze a friendship in such a better way. Thank you for this !!
"I feel like autistic people understand individuals better than allistic people. But I feel like allistic people understand themselves and therefore grander social constructs that reflect that one specific identity a lot better." this is such an interesting point! :D I actually feel like in a group (especially at work!!) I can always clearly understand everybody so much better than the others, even when they are seeing each other as friends while I'm just there not socializing and I often try to be a mediator!
I am just deeply impressed by your skills in perception, observation, analysis and being able to communicate all of it so eloquently. Thank you for this excellent video.
omg.... girl never stop talking please. this channel is the best thing ever im so happy i searched to find you. its super interesting and as i listen the thoughts in me i didn't know existed have woken up. i needed that. i also wish you were my friend :) also can you please make a video on your observation about culture and how it affects identity and camouflaging?
we don't like the merging that occurs in social interactions as depth and uniqueness are not reflected > because we feel the gaps, we often end up being used as the mirror of other's projections : all the collective unspoken, unfelt truths is reflected back at us. Somehow autistic people are more poetic than the norm : why should we keep up with the superficial ? we are attuned to a wider web of feeling/ sensing/ contemplating and thats a gift
Thanks so much for this video, it was so illuminating. I’ve had some turbulent friendships as a teenager and I’d never fully considered the ‘copying’ that you described and how uneasy it made me, coupled with the inability to articulate those feelings directly with the friend in question. I now have much healthier female friendships as an adult, but blamed myself and my own poor communication skills when I broke away from these teenaged friendships - but maybe it’s also just an inherently broken way to encourage girls to relate to one another.
Listening to you feels like as if you had been in my head, as if you were speaking out all the reasonings I had already formed in my head, hours of analytical self conversation that I never had brought to paper or to talked to another person to, i am so glad I found you.
I love your ability in articulation. It helps to think about our own experiences too. Thanks for sharing. ❤️
I remember desperately wanting to be a part of a group of friends, when I was a teen. Unfortunately, factors beyond my control had early caused me to be one of two pariahs in my class. I remember Finally getting the fad garment of the time, only to find the following day, that the cool girls no longer wore theirs. As if me being able to meet the group dress code, suddenly drained all the cool out of them.
It’s called ‘moving the goalposts’ and is part of the popularity game
I really wanted to be in the cool girl group but whenever it's so close to happening I'd do something dumb like not comforting one of them when they're crying (her cat died). I'm already so shy around other girls and it's becoming really hard as I go through cycles of getting and losing girl friends. To the point where most of my friends are guys. I do appreciate my friends but the cool girls only friend group thing will always be at the back of my mind.
@@bruhhhh--- Speaking as someone who successfully managed to join cool girl groups by presenting a diluted version of my real self, I definitely recommend focusing on authentic friendships instead. I'm now 40 with v few friends because all the 'cool girl friends' didn't actually care about me and abandoned me when I started to suffer with depression. I'm now having to look around in the hope of meeting more authentic people, but at 40 it's pretty daunting.
The way you just put it all into words. The last female friendship breakup made me give up. I dread when someone wants to be my friend. I push them away before they can reject me. I’m happily married and have found women tend to become extremely jealous of my relationship and so I don’t discuss it at all. If I don’t share my life they either don’t trust me, or it makes it a one sided relationship where I’m treated like a therapist.
While my closest friends are women, they are both neurodivergent people, one with adhd and one with audhd. Until them I had a hard time making friends with girls, and while I had no friends when I was younger because people found me weird (Went through the same extroversion to introversion issue in my life) I had an easier time talking to boys because I did not recognize the gender expectations of me. When I went to college I fully realized that I didn't really click with any of the other women around me. It was almost as if they had their own language that I just didn't understand. So when I go out and make friends (This is gonna seem so weird but I swear I have a radar for it) I look for people who might be neurodivergent no matter the gender. Its just easier that way and its helped me to be more out going because my fears of social situations are at ease because I know somewhere there is someone like me. And if not, well, it took me a while but I got more comfortable with being my fully neurodivergent self infront of neurotypicals and if they don't like that, I just have reached a point where I don't care.
loved the way you recorded this outside, so refreshing and stepping out of your comfort zone is so valuable to show people that nature is healing for everyone
I can't believe how well you've articulated everything I have felt about female friendships for my whole life. It's such a relief listening to this, and I feel validated in my struggles with forming friendships. Thank you so much for this 💜
This makes so much sense. Why I was bullied in junior high, why some of my fellow students in university tried to "bring me into the fold" etc. I'm not diagnosed so I'm not sure I'm autistic, but I do have quite a lot of autistic traits, and I've struggled to understand a lot of the things you talk about. Thank you.
I'm also lucky enough to work at a company where a lot of the employees are neurodivergent, which means I can be myself with them (it's somehow easier with nd people).
This is such an insightful discussion--seriously, thank you for sharing your sensitivity, vulnerability, and intuition 🦋💙 (and everyone in the comments too!) I love autistic women so much, I feel like I can love and understand myself a little bit more each time I come in contact with the community 😭
I’m high-masking in my mid 30s, unaware of my own autism until about 2 years ago. I was always just “secretly different,” and constantly analyzing WHY, HOW, in what subtle ways…
I’ve always felt a dynamic in groups of NT women where there is one “leader” elected by the group, and held up as “perfect” or the example of how to be. The rest of the women in the group are expected to celebrate the leader. I think this is a consequence of misogyny, and how women are constantly compared against one another, and seen as competing for male attention. If you don’t fall in line as one of the support choir, the group will reject you.
I’ve noticed that there also seems to be a requirement for conformity of personalities - like, there are certain socially-acceptable personality templates, and people seemed to pick one and go with it. (at least it seemed that way from my pov, it happened around the middle school years)
In one-on-one female friendships I have ABSOLUTELY noticed that my close friends would “take” parts of my personality!!!! (I honestly thought this had been in my head or something before you said this!!) and I HATED it and it made me withdraw from pursuing relationships with people. It feels to me like someone has taken something deeply personal from me, and it’s not mine anymore, and there’s an emptiness in me where it used to be. Ahhh! Thank you for your insights, seriously
I couldn't put it any other way! 😊
Same here, very open but had to become more introverted for self preservation after masking heavily for years for self preservation but kept burning out.
There's also the calling to spiritual awakening that some people resist, which asks us to go inside and resolve our pain and wounded ego. That can put us on totally different wavelengths and make it tough to remain friends with people who aren't committed to authenticity and growth. Are they dirty looks of confusion or is that a projection?
I would love to learn more
@@joyceadena it’s a rabbithole and we do have to be careful about who we are influenced by in the spiritual community. They don’t have the answers either, it’s inside of each of us. Learning about and implementing boundaries also helps. ❤️
What you said about there being underlying truths and tensions that noone wants to address always really bothered me, and by addressing them i would unintentionally ruin my female friendships. I find it very difficult to talk with other women because they often withdraw their true views on things unless it has been confirmed as 100% shared by all the group, this could be about anything... sometimes these things are problems within the group which are reeking absolute havoc.
i dont really understand the way women talk and my sense of humour is much too masculine for most, which is why i have many male friends. Guys are always up for saying their views and it doenst usually result in a fall out, but the women in the group always stay quiet. I cant put myself through that, i see what i have to say as equal to anyone else. I would love to hear what women have to say but in my experience with female friends its taken me months to tease out an opinion on anything that isnt centered around gossip or surface level topics (and i love to talk about people!). I know women think more than they let on, but it disturbs me that i can be outcasted or unnerve women by stating my views on things. This isnt because i dont want to hear contrary opinions, because i often leave room open for discussion but when i do this im met with very mild watered down responses. Maybe im expecting too much?
Either way, the ways in which im expected to copy and repress myself are unbareable to me. I have tried many times in order to make frienships with women, and also tried to tone down my masculine sense of humour, but i end up feeling such anxiety, stress and confusion it just doesnt seem worth it. Even if nothing is going wrong i find myself ejecting myself from the group. I really am missing feminine energy in my life, but i just am unable to shape myself into the right mold for this to happen. It makes me very sad when im with my group of friends, and find myself excluded when the women talk, as much as i love my male friends and feel much more at ease around them. I think also ivehad such bad experiences with women my anxiety really goes skyhigh if im somehow in a group of them.
me and NT girls just never seemed to mesh and honestly led me to resenting girls as a whole for a while. i have a couple friendships with ND girls now and it’s very refreshing. throughout grade school i always felt like girls were out to get me for simply existing in the “wrong” way. my high school friend group was a mix of guys and girls but soon enough we had to move away from the girls because they could not stop picking fights with each other. things weren’t exactly perfect with my male friends but i found it funny how i could be more emotionally open and even felt more physically safe around them than around the girls, the girls felt like they wanted me for a weird pet project and then dumped me when i wasn’t of use anymore.
I am not all the way through the video yet, but I just wanted to throw out an idea: About copying/mirroring each other's hobbies and activities. I think that part of this is a survival mechanism that is created due to wanting to increase contact with female friends. As a parent and an adult woman, it's extremely hard to find time to meet with friends. Being in the same place at the same time is really tricky. If I don't work or live near a friend, it's extremely hard to be able to meet without scheduling issues. I know that you are talking about school, so it's not particularly relevant, but I just wanted to throw this out.
I feel like you are convincing me that I'm undiagnosed autistic because I've always had this innate confidence in showing up as myself without caring if it scares away other ppl. I can always find the real ones when I show up loud and proud and kind and respectful to all around me. I didn't know that that was a sign of autism, I just figured it made sense because I'm usually the most outgoing of my friends. Thanks for sharing your insight! I'm really enjoying your content
I don't find female friendships fulfilling it took me so long to say the truth to myself, but it is what it is, women like to be with women who are just like them in every sense and at times it can be suffocating,it's not for me
Its not always like that. Females on their own can be quite different to females in groups.
I feel the same exact way., And for a long time I thought something was wrong with me.
Damn, I just thought I had some weird internal misogyny…which maybe I do.
@@yogijageryou do
32:07 yes exactly 💯. You’ve said this perfectly. I look at everyone with acceptance and understand why they are that way. I take notes on how ppl communicate and ways I can probably get better, but no one gives that same compassion to us. I haven’t been diagnosed but I agree
The dichotomy ally/threat is helpful to understand why with some women it's very difficult to get along with for me. Especially with the idea that we need to be similar to get along when in reality we're not. I hate to lie but I still do sometimes, and I suck at it. So that's when it gets messy because a lot of people can feel some kind of inauthenticity.. the level of masking and camouflaging is pretty high :') I also experience it online even though I'm anonymous - I haven't seen that subject being talked about yet, if you did I'd loved to hear it.
I get really confused when people don't seem to care or see beyond the act. They're bonding with a shadow of myself in a way, that's scary for me, even though I'm responsible of that in a way but I don't feel safe. It's even worse when women are projecting the idea of who I can be because of how I look and they insist in wanting to get closer when we're not similar. And I have trying to be that person they were looking for every single time because I didn't know who to be, I wanted friends.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, it's helpful to reflect on past experiences and what I'm looking for today. I definitely want to be close to people who are themselves and give me space to be myself too!
I find it in every aspect, with every person I ever meet. only a few people (less than 5) in my entire life have made me feel comfortable and understood
This really blessed me. I am not ND, but I found this highly relatable. Thank you so much. You're still impacting lives.
We moved every year until high school, so it wasn't really until high school that I had a chance to make long term friends. And I failed miserably lol My problem was that if I didn't like someone, I couldn't pretend to be their friend, and I felt like if you were talking bad about someone you shouldn't be their friend. I had a really hard time with all the things I felt were dishonest and disingenuous. Looking back, it was a lot of kid stuff. But at the time I just felt like I couldn't trust anyone because no one was really honest. I ended up having a huge meltdown at a school dance and just burned every bridge.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for these videos. It makes me cry to finally hear someone that’s able to put what I deal with into words..
You're such a well spoken person . I subscribed because I felt you might have a lot to teach me .
Having one friendship with a girl, we are in some ways very similar, both INFJs, both Sun and Venus in Pisces, both of us prone to feeling depressed. I went to therapy for dysthymia, now I figured out I might have autism (not diagnosed yet), the friend of mine tried therapy but stopped, I feel for her so much when she seems down, which seems to be often, but sadly our friendship works best when I go through rougher times, but when I manage to work on myself to become more happy it seems like there is a disconnect. I tried to encourage her to take some action, but then it was taken the wrong way, like I was bragging that I managed to get better but she didn't. Makes me really sad because I emphasize with her very much, but she doesn't like being helped and I don't think it's good to be in a relationship that only works when both of us feel bad about ourselves.
just wanna say, so happy to have found my corner! 🥺 embarrassing to admit, but for the longest time I put off watching “female autistic experience” videos because, every one I watched didn’t reflect the kind of deep, visceral suffering I experience on the daily. But I soon realised that my life isn’t *all* suffering, and my need to alienate myself stems from growing up alienated as a kid. I’m tormented by the feeling that I don’t truly “connect” with anyone, *especially* other women (thanks, bullying), but that creates my trust issues. Tbh I just wanted to vent a little, so thankyou for holding this space for me.
also, just floating this out there, but any other autistic women not experience jealousy? I’m not trying to sound arrogant, I just rarely experience it 🤷🏻♀️ I want to celebrate other women, purely for their uniqueness.
And adding onto this - can I just say… I have resonated with everything you have said… I haven’t felt so seen in, forever. Thankyou so much! 😭 This has been super refreshing for me.
What you said is exactly what I think or have felt about this topic. One of the most relatable videos I have seen! This is going in my save folder for sure. I’m hoping to direct my research for my Ph.D. around women diagnosed with autism and struggles we face. Nice job.
THATS CRAZY I literally was about to comment the exact words “gauge their worth”
Only part way through this video, saw the one about male friendships first. I'm an autistic cis man and I really appreciate you're inisight into both topics. Great stuff. Its giving me a lot to think about
I resonate a lot with this! I think I’ve always felt that I would eventually finally get “good” at blending in with more neurotypical folks and assumed that’s what everyone else was doing too. But I never got good at it, I just got better at hiding the authentic version of me. Now I have several friendships where I feel seen and I also have been learning how to be a better more giving friend now that I’m tapping into the authenticity that’s there. :)
This was such a beautiful and healing video for me to see. Thank you so much ❤
you are so honest, so true , thank you . i feel like you try to trust in your own opinion and thats almost the most important take away from your videos
I find friendships really difficult because I always feel like there's something missing on my part, like im supposed to care about the other person on some level that im not grasping. I think it's a trauma response paired with an anxious attachment style. Having friends is something that's out of reach for me at the moment but it sucks when societal expectations are so high.
My traditional Chinese mother is even more behind in that she says you can’t rely on your female friends because they won’t be there for you forever (true). So she says I need to find a husband 🙄🙄🙄.
@Lo-re5pfBut that's just your experience. Most women have satisfying female support system.
@Lo-re5pfno she’s not. A husband is not gonna fix all your problems and it doesnt always work out.
@Lo-re5pf marriage is patriarchal. All the marriages I’ve been to the priest talks about the wife serving her husband and submitting to him and him being the protector and stuff. How is that so great?
Yesss!!! these points are very true! It makes me reflect on my relationships and friendships with women and evaluate whether or not there is shared joy or if our relationship is based off competition. My closest friends feel like joy for me 💘 thank u for this video;
There's a known phenomenon that people can't celebrate others. I think finding people that do is a real gift although rare. ❤
Maybe your friend that was "trying to look like you" was a masking autistic girl ? 🤔 We will never know
19:36 this! It’s just a matter of respect in relationships, this makes me reflect on ways I’ve been disrespectful to others and ways I can be more respectful.
other humans are complex beings just like me with their own life story and own life goals. Their own brain that was shaped by their environment, life experiences, and what their ancestors experienced.
Always enjoy and appreciate seeing you and your YT. New environment outside is refreshing. Wish there weren’t those unnatural towers in the background and I couldn’t help from being slightly distracted by them as I wanted to remove them (which is apparently possible with the new tech but wouldn’t be honest). Anyhow, thanks for this.
It’s funny you say that cause it bothered me too haha
these type of experiences have always made me feel so excluded from my own gender. friend groups sometimes feel like VIP clubs where I could never fully be part of
I know I’m late to this video but I absolutey appreciate and love this video you made because it explained and broke down and explained the aspect of female friendships in a way that I felt like I never could❤❤
Girl, I have mercury in aquarius too!! If you wouldnt mind, since you mentioned your mercury sign, can you share your birth chart and discuss astrology (if youre comfortable)? Because omg not only am i also an INFJ, i have mercury, venus, AND mars in aquarius. Im so curious if theres a strong correlation between having aquarius placements with autism in women from an astrological perspective. Wow. As always I resonate so much with every single video you share. Youve been a huge step in my journey to getting an autism diagnosis. Thank you so much.
Edit: i just got to the part where you talk about detaching and fearing losing yourself and assimilating into a group. Oh my god, i resonate SO much with this. I never liked being in cliques, i was known for camouflaging and jumping between different friend groups. Now im in a place in my life where im stuck in the same group of colleagues/friends at my job and i like these ppl, but i cant STAND assimilating into the group. I didnt want to relate to them, i didnt want to have the same interests they all had. It was like an echo chamber. I went through a period the last year of strongly isolating and pulling away and even feeling resentlful. You just validating all of the things im feeling omg. Yes yes yes. All of this.
As a guy, was extremely into your talk and found it very helpful, at 13:00 regarding patriarchal matriarchal stuff, I appreciated how you dissected women's interactions with each other, the way you did it sounded very similar to evolutionary explanations for behaviors, just with some new age terms.
did I miss like a whole chapter of what being a girl is like.. cuz I never seen the phenomenon of us trying to look like each other? or never noticed? sharing hobbies or taking each other's speech patterns sure (that is normal for friendship imo, people who think you are stealing their talking style low key scare me, like what? starting to have similarities in that is natural) but copying clothes, hairstyles? I mean maybe they were just inspired? :\ but for it to be a whole thing all friends do? I'm not sure I know what this is about. Maybe because in childhood and teen years I barely ever had groups, more like one friend for each place I went to :D
I really appreciated the outside setting. Great video
Perhaps it's because I'm agender (AFAB,) but in my childhood, I didn't grasp that the concept of gender existed so most of my (fleeting) friendships dealt solely in shared hobbies.
It wasn't until I was a teen that I started to understand gender roles/dynamics and mostly stuck to friendships with girls because boys just refused to be vulnerable at any point.
My friendships were/are still based in hobbies but now as a teen/adult, I could go deeper and ask more personal questions, which I had learned early on as a kid was "inappropriate."
That's a sweet trait.
This video is so important, so glad I found it
I took a good look in the mirror. I then told myself that I will never have a female friend. I will die one day without ever knowing what it’s like.
It makes soooo much sense to me that you're a Leo. Also, ur very very smart and thoughtful
re: being OK after your breakup...I wonder if NTs just in general can't accept when you say something about your own experience. I've had so many times they try to tell me I really must feel something different than I do, because that is what they would feel. It makes no sense to me but it happens a lot.
For as long as I can remember friendships have always been really difficult to me. Since I was a a child I remember my friendship with both girls and boys being like there was a wall between them and me. I knew my brain worked differently to theirs, I could understand them after many years of observing other people but they could never understand me. Aa a child and still to this day I try to talk to or befriend people who looked left out or lonely because I know other people didn't and don't like to be alone even though I did and still do. I've always thought thought I was just put in earth to walk alone in a sense. I was reading many peoples comments under this video that have lived similar experiences of thinking we were put in earth to be alone and it was very encouraging to me. I will say being alone is easier but I do sometimes wish I had a better ability to make and keep strong relationships outside of my family.
OMG it’s like you get my whole life. I was just diagnosed and it all makes sense. I’ve always thought that too I’m either seen as a threat or ally, and it hurt because I am my true self just because I like it I’m not competing with anyone about anything at all. I think we stand out for our “uniqueness” and they secretly hate that. It sucks :(
You have to comprehend that they have absolutely no idea about what we see,
I see no sense in small talk, i care about how are we going to keep our species alive for the next 200 years. These are fantastic insights, when i decide to place myself into those dynamics, i have to go in planned, and a plan for that that plan if it goes bad.
After the whole rona hysteria, i saw our species for pur true selves, and it's like i hallucinated the whole thing, people have either the shortest memory, or something else is at play.
Daaang... I was a "smart kid" and sometimes I hold back on answering questions (even when I know the answer) because I'm afraid of taking opportunities from other people (even when they don't seem interested at all) and making other people feel stupid by comparison. I guess I'm just projecting my insecurities on them, because *I* constantly compared (and still compare) myself to others and felt bad whenever someone else did better than me.
I wish there was a chance of having these type of conversations without being lumped in to the NLOG category and caricature. This is not about fighting over the attention of boys, heck that's likely one of the reasons we feel so marginalized in the first place, because for us it's not all about boys and romantic relationships.
There have been times I've felt hating on my own gender, but it all came from a place of frustration and loneliness.
I wanted so badly to be included and able to bond with other women , but the obsession my peers had with being a girlfriend to a boy, a wife to a husband and just their entire being dedicated into realizing their stereotypical, sexist roles of a woman, left me in despair and isolated for the majority of my life.
This is awesome. Thank you for expressing your feelings so beautifully - it really does resonate. I am a late commentor and maybe you have already explored this topic, but is there a chance you could speak on the instances where friends or associates who are also neurodivergent, _yet_ able to successfully mask, end up alienating, outing, dismissing or othering those on the spectrum who are not able to do so. I hope that makes sense. There is someone at my work who has displayed certain behaviors that are in line with neurodivergence, but is also able to mask and has joined with those who are bullying me. I know this is not uncommon and I would love to hear if you have experience with this and/or the experiences that others will share in the comments.
God, you speak on multiple shared experiences... Really enjoyed this talk. Thank you for creating it. You're inspiring and encouraging. Loved the soft hand pan playing in the background too 🫶 take care
The bit about the copying was a real thing for me recently. This person did let me know their self esteem was low & image of self wasn't good. The littlest things she did in "admiration" of me drove me mad & made me stop wanting to engage with her. I couldn't take it because I feel like I've gone through so much to get to this self acceptance stage & what I pride myself in is my quirks & overall personality. It was something I pointed out to her & it kinda did not stop & spilled over into her using my verbiage & phrases 🙃 She's an INFJ😂 & I'm an INFP. I really want to refer to this person with bad names because it makes me so irritable thinking about it. Like just be yourself!! Damn, I'm trying to get to know & love YOU FOR YOU, not for you wanting to be like me 😭
You are stunning you are such a genuine woman i would love to be friends with you love you as you are you are a good genuine strong person
@Olivia she is such a friedly good sweet person she has a big heart
The kindness here makes me smile, thank you both 💜
@Olivia she is so lovable she would be a beautiful friend and an awesome girlfriend to have
@Olivia you are such a kind sweet person you seem very genuine
4:34 female friendships❤
I don’t feel alone when I come across videos like this because people will really try to make you feel crazy for saying this.