The Women in Refrigerators Trope, Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2020
- The first 1000 people who click the link will get 2 free months of Skillshare Premium: skl.sh/thetake92 | The Take is now on Snapchat! / 0027341361 Scan our snapcode or search The Take on Snapchat to subscribe to our show and never miss an episode. | Why do so many stories still stuff women into refrigerators? The “woman in a refrigerator” trope, or "fridging," occurs when a female character is killed or hurt in order to motivate a male character’s story. The term, coined by writer Gail Simone, was inspired by a famous Green Lantern comic, where the hero's girlfriend is murdered and stuffed inside his refrigerator. The question of what exactly constitutes a fridging can get complicated: does it still count if the woman is well-drawn before she dies, if male characters get injured or killed, too, or if there are other complex female characters in the story? Ultimately, the Fridged Woman trope is most useful not as a way to condemn individual stories, but as a touchstone for opening up important discussions about how women are represented onscreen. Here’s our Take on why this trope remains so common, and how we can bring the simplistic Fridged Woman out of the kitchen for good.
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Also, a dead lover never gets old, never gets mad, never breaks the fantasy of a perfect relationship with the problems every regular couples have in the real live. If a loved one dies, she/he became an idealized creature with no space to development.
That's a good point. Catch and Release kind of inverts that idea though: the death of the male fiancé reveals his cheating and the cracks in their relationship, so by the end of the film the female protagonist has stopped idealizing him and moved on.
Gone Girl inverts to create a mystery. Guardians of the galaxy 2 straight out discusses it with the saintly mother trope.
Yeah, sometimes I think most writers can't write a relationship....
Couples either never formed until the end of the story, or get separated in the beginning ^^'
You're absolutely right
That's exactly why Gwyneth Paltrow's character in Se7en shines above the rest: she is the wife, the one who feels frustated with the life she's had to live with her husband... yet they still care for each other, just as happens in real life.
Reading the title: What the hell? What kind of trope is ...
30 Seconds in: Oh, there's a name for that? Heh okay.
Why can’t you just SAY “I hadn’t heard of this trope before now”?
Same for me :D I though thee is only Nora - Mr. Freezes wife, and thats it
@@Jayfive276 narrative impact
@@Andra1150 Underrated comment
@@nastiabarko4080 , thanks, mate)
The stories that bug me the most are when the woman is assaulted and they ignore her feelings and make it a property damage case for the hero to avenge. I end up hating the hero for ignoring her pain.
Irreversible by Gaspard Noé is the most disgusting example of this trope. Don't watch it. It has a 13 minutes-non-edited rape scene that only serves as the plot device to the man's vengeance.
@@tiavelvet3141 Yes, but that rape scene is still played for shock value (it also has an ultrasound designed to make you nauseous), and is still used in a narrative way, with no consideration for the victim.
Gaspard Noé is a conservative mysoginistic piece of shit, though..
CONTENT WARNING. I've literally had to tell the few men in my life I've told about it to NOT get pissed off when I tell them that I was sexually assaulted. My trauma, or a conversation about my trauma, is NOT about their anger, and I refuse to f**king deal with 1. the emotional labor of talking down their anger, much less pretending it's what I want from them, and 2. the stress I feel being around someone angry when I',m being vulnerable. I'm having a conversation about the f**ked up s**t that happened to ME, not THEM, not ME as someone they THINK they should have or would have protected. My best friend is a really sweet, non-confrontational guy and somehow even he tends to kneejerk right into that response and I'm like DUDE. It really seems like our society/culture literally hasn't provided men with another clear option, response, or narrative beyond "I would SO have done something to that ***hole and I SWEAR I will protect you!!!" (And no one tell me I should be grateful because that's just gross and I refuse to dignify it with a response.) Edit: It's especially jarring to me when it comes from someone like that friend, because in my head I'm like "dude but how", and also not all assaults are the violent 'norm' you see onscreen. If he really wants to support and protect me, he can be a good listener and offer acts of love or care. Not hypermasculine posturing and empty threats. (And what if they're not empty? If he actually beats up the guy and inevitably faces legal consequences, how does that help??)
So yeah. When the 'hero's' response is to get rill et up about their anger and their revenge and basically he and/or the story ignores her experience, I also don't tend to like that 'hero'. And it tends to make me think less of the writer and/or director, too.
We need more movies in which men, including superheros, hear such reports or come to rescue someone in the aftermath and instead of automatically flipping into KILL MODE he takes a few deep breaths and says, "Okay, what can I do to help you? Maybe that's overwhelming to ask ... You should drink some water, and I'll get you a blanket. I'll be here until you want me to leave, don't worry. You're going to be okay. Would you like me to call someone? A crisis center, your mom?"
I'll start writing some now, please stand by.
@@FiddlebirdBlue I agree completely! Most survivors don't want "vengeance," they want comfort. I feel like men just never learn how to treat victims in this situation and the film industry certainly isn't helping.
@@hMusic-tb8hl Female Charecters have the same Thing.
"You can't let the animals die in the movie, just the women!" I snort laughed. That was great.
Seven psychopaths is pretty funny. You should check it out!
This channel tries so hard to prove a point they bring arguments that are so neurotic...
@@paulgotik This is your first time learning what "analysis" is? Buckle up, kiddo!
@@amityislandchum A bad analysis maybe. Don't come at me if you do a bad work.
@@paulgotik Lmao then watch another channel. Why do you keep watching their videos if you think they're bad? Sounds like something only an idiot would do.
"Oh, you have a girlfriend? Would be bad if something happened to her..."
Soooo... single heroes have an advantage?
Super Ace/Aro invincible
Not really,the woman can be anyone in the heros life: mother,daughter,sister and etc
They always have a mother, an aunt, a sister, etc...
Look at Peter Parker, when he's not with MJ or Gwen Stacy, he has his uncle and his aunt to fridge XD
According to Marvel and DC Comics, Yes.
Single people always have the advantage. Stay single, never get married.
ultimately, we just want better written female characters
And more of them.
But hollywood and media is mostly male center thats why we get this terrible writen characters, and then we ask for more proactuve ones and they give us this terrible thrope of crazy feminist ones.... no, thats not what we asked, we ask more normal woman... is almost like they have this dicothomy, womab are either submesive or crazy batshit feminist
Lol, they want our female dollars and will stoop to writing a woman into the script, but only if they're a love interest or they die in the 2nd act.
learn how to write and write it?
@Black Ninja we know they exist but is like a very little percentaje againts the mostly badly writen, in all type of media 🤷♀️
I hate when rape is used in media as a shock factor specially to MOTIVATE the male lead in vengance, is almost as saying the bad guy is telling that male, look what i did to YOUR posession, i tarnish it, now is not pure, is touch by another male. EXCUSE ME WTF????? they even dont mind to adress how THE WOMAN, the victim in this situation feels, is she geting ptsd ??? What does ahe feels ???? Does she wanta revenge as well??? They dont even care to adress the issue in the FEMALE perspective, is SO INSULTING, is how the male lead feel about it.
there's a film called "Savage Street where Linda Blair goes hunting down the gang who raped her little sister and murdered her pregnant friend.
@@rikrob5172 you don't think being pennetrated without permission doesn't fuck you up?
rik rob They say that about 1 out of every 6 women have been raped in their lifetime. So yes, absolutely.
the avenging woman has a trope all its own, though, generally tied with other violent forms of femininity like the Mother bear.
the thing is everything is a trope. every story beat has been played with, remixed and replayed with every other trope combination.
the unfairness here would be from an expectation that her perspective would be looked at and then wasn't.
if someone gets sexually assaulted in the next die hard film, for instance, you wouldn't expect the hurt, shame and mental damage to be looked in any real depth, if at all.
while in a drama or a romance, you'd be insulted if it was only mentioned as a story beat and played no further part in the development of a character; something like that would be a larger or defining aspect of them.
You should watch "I spit on your grave", it's about a women killing the people that rape her.
I think a deeper reading of this trope is also that women are seen as temporary distractions and/or standing in the way of the male characters truly fulfilling their destinies / coming into their own. And therefore these “distractions” (ie: wives, girlfriends, lovers, daughters) must be eliminated so the man of the story can become who he was always meant to become before he was temporarily distracted by the the “weaker sex”.
Really smart point
I don't really agree, the trope is normally alongside more unhinged male protagonists where they're one bad day from going psycho. The wives/girlfriends etc. tend to be the ones who keep the protagonist grounded and morally in check, then when they get kidnapped/killed or whatever the protagonist forgoes his morality for revenge or rescue. Look at The Dark Knight for example, the Joker's attacks ramp up all throughout the movie and Batman is trying to catch him by convectional means then when Rachel dies it's specifically personal to him so he forgoes his morals and builds a citywide surveillance system to find the Joker. By the end of the movie he does catch the Joker but he's an extremely broken man because Rachel was an important part of his life. 'The Mentor' trope is normally the one related to the protagonist fulfilling their destiny.
@@mikester4896 i hate batman, is a manchild who buys expensive toys with his millions so he can monmentary punch and kick a psycho killer that raped and let paraplegic a friend "to hurt him" yet he never kills the joker, cuz HE NEEDS HIS NEMESIS more than he needs to protect the inocent, how much deaths have tho joker bring, yet batman refuse to kill him
JJ ba I agree with the point this comment is making but with batman the WHOLE point of him is he never kills anyone, which I think is very interesting since nearly every hero does murder people. I see what you’re saying but when it comes to batman (which yeh at this point you should kill the joker cause he’ll never stop) but he never kills or takes life, that’s what makes him interesting to me at least
@Hung Low From my point of view you are wrong there. I think the terme "complete" is more complicated in this scenario. I think the man is complete when he has his wife and kids and is happy. He is fulfilling his destiny when he loses everything and gets his revenge and saves the world. but often that dont makes him a happy man again. I think it is still adressing male fantasy because men often feal lost in modern society but beeing a superhero would be a way of recognition.
Fun Fact: The Villain that stuffed Green Lantern's girlfriend in a refrigerator wasn't even an important villain. His name was "Major Force" for God's sake.
Alex appear in less than 10 issues
There could be a video on Kyle Rayner’s doomed romances on its own.
@@archer1949 Saddly he is not so popular to this happen
Diego Dreossi
Yeah. I suppose. But he was my GL when I was growing up.
That was pretty dark tbh
Concept of fridged women : Exists
Christopher Nolan : Hold my tea
Just watched Tenet can confirm
I don't know how he's married but I fear for his wife. And I'm only like 1/3 joking. EMMA, RUN
Nolan is a strange offender, because he arguably called out this trope in Memento, where the protagonist willfully deluded himself into a life of vigilantism using his wife's death as a flimsy justification.
@@FiddlebirdBlue hahahahaha
You’ve heard of the sexy lamp rule , now I present to you *The dead puppy rule* .
If the role of a dead female character could be comfortably replaced by a cute puppy without changing much. There’s probably an issue with your story and how you write women.
Edit: Love the people in the replies completely missing the point and telling me I don’t understand John Wick.
Omg so trueeeeee, thats why we need more female writers, we are not objects to make the lead interesting
Wait the dead puppy rule is what John Wick is all about!
Tell us some examples ?
peta wants to know your location
Or the CAR. Holy ass, that's worse than the puppy. At least the puppy is alive...
This channel is like the Harvard for pop culture education.
Like Harvard? You mean over-hyped and not actually better than other sources?
No
I feel the same.
I follow other trope channels too. This one is the most productive and really gets down to it.
@@reginanemo640 I used to follow other channels too but none was so precise with a historical perspective (it's kinda depressing sometimes because it shows how representation goes from trope to trope), the creators make an amazing job here !
I'm glad you brought up John Wick. I love how the film subverted this trope, and by extension subtly call attention to it. His wife died naturally of cancer; she doesn't act as a device to motivate his actions, but a representation of the loss of the life he could have had.
The puppy, house and car are a part of that world too, but she's definitely not treated on their inhuman level, and by setting her death apart from the violence that happens to those, the films distinguish her as such.
I’m so sick and tired of all these women trapped in refrigerators
i mean just open the fridge they should be able to get out
@@SolitaryDust impossible to open them from the inside. All of us ladies getting trapped in fridges. It's a nightmare!
I'm sick and tired of tropes that reinforce the idea that as a woman, any violence done to your body isn't even about you, but something done to affect the man in your life that is "responsible" for you and your safety- be they your father, your boyfriend or husband, and in rarer cases your brother or son. And it always ends up being this story about the male lead "not being man enough" to protect his woman who ends up becoming "man enough" by the end of the story, usually through becoming more competent at being violent. Which is such a bad message for everyone involved really. It's not your fault nor responsibility as a man when bad things happen to the women in your life, treating it as some sort of personal failure is irrational and- dare I say- awfully self-absorbed. And it's a bad message to women because this trope hinges entirely on this outdated view of gender roles that really needs to die already, in which you- and thus your wellbeing- are your man's responsibility- meaning you have no agency over yourself or what happens to you because *you* aren't about you.
And this idea that "violence done to you isn't about you" still exists in the real world and is harmful because it breeds a lot of retributive violence on real women as a response to their men's actions. In some countries to this day women who haven't committed any crimes are punished with physical and sexual violence for the crimes of their fathers and brothers, while they are made to watch so that they'll feel bad about it, I guess. But even in our "modern" and "progressive" society where "misogyny isn't a problem anymore" according to some people with very questionable facial hair, this mindset finds its way in their everyday life. It's in the macho jokes in which sleeping with another man's sister or mother is seen as some kind of powermove over him or in those internet power fantasy stories that are met with delight and respect among men, in which someone sleeps with the wife of someone who was an asshole to them, using her body as a prop just to get back at him. The idea is unfortunately still alive and relatively well. And I could go on about how purity culture ties in with all this and how this mindset is responsible for mass sexual violence against women during wars but I've met my word count for the day. Anyway this sucks and don't forget to water your plants.
Chief Purrfect I appreciate your detailed reply but rest assured I’m not the bad guy here. I was just making a joke about an oddly specific title. Off the top of my head I can recall zero films where a woman was trapped inside of a refrigerator
@@thisisEHAM Oh no, I know. This was never a callout reply lol.
Whenever a movie starts with a woman dying to motivate a man's plot, I just sit the rest of the time thinking "....Or you could go to therapy?".
Would you watch a movie where the character just sits in a therapy office? I watched a movie like that once. The character eventually went on murder spree anyway.
movies are about exceptional characters and actions. Sure, revenge is not the most logical response to trauma (at least not in our world with a funcioning justice system), but in the end movies are there to entertain you, and a movie about a guy sitting in therapy, a cancer patient, who goes to one last boxing match only to get the shit kicked out of them, an ugly girl trying to find love, only to be rejected over and over etc are just not entertaining
Ppl in here really acting like you said the movie should be about him going to therapy, also, does a movie about a man dealing with the grief over a dead lover without revenge not sound entertaining to you people? Have you people never seen the Babadook?! Wasn't boring at all.
@@auggiemain babadook wasn't an action movie it was a thriller. The point they are making is who wants to see an action movie turn out to be an inspirational life piece. Like dude we're here to see someone get revenge not cry about their life problems. If we wanted to see that we'd watch an inspirational life movie lol. There are different genres of movies and that's that. We aren't saying that we are okay with women being used in movies like this but we are saying it works for the movie. I don't see woman complaining about men being seen as objects in romcoms...
@@Royalty_girlie okay and? So that means we cant make jokes about the whole movie could be solved if the guy just went to therapy? No one *actually* thinks all superhero and action movies should be replaced with that, people just like to make jokes and nitpick.
When a puppy has more character development than you.
Black Widow wasn't fridged. I know some people think the opposite. But here's how I see it. Yes, she saved Hawkeye (Who also has a wife and kids), but that wasn't the only reason. She sacrificed herself to save TRILLIONS of lives. She even tells Clint. "For the past five years I've been trying to do one thing, get to right here. That's all it's been about, bringing everyone back." She didn't motivate her male teammate's actions, she motivated the entire plan put in place to bring everyone back. There are no doubt many fridged woman tropes, but Natasha Romanoff does not fall into that category. She completed a character arc, not a trope.
This is her final and ultimate attempt to "wipe the red from her ledger."
Exactly!!
Abby B and she got her own movie 😂😂😂
Yes but in endgame that happened Off-screen. She definetly was not just a tragic motivation for the main character (iron man) but she was still pretty undeveloped and bland in the avenger movies. She was more of a character in her own movies
Did you get to the end of the video? They say she wasn't a fridged woman example
O H , i really though there were women in refrigerators
Well, there was one, that's already odd enough ^^
The origin of the term was coined in 0:22 about Green Lantern's girlfriend being murdered and stuffed in the refrigerator. But yeah, no ACTUAL woman or rather no woman IRL was stuffed in the refrigerator for motivation.
I also did rs
Thought about Passangers
Omg me too!
I was like the only one person Wife I remember being in a literal fridge the whole time was Mr. Freeze or some weird horror flick 😢
But I get the trope now and am like I had no idea this was slight towards woman.
I thought those guys just really loved their wife and want revenge
@@jen3604 It's not a trope that's happens to women, men die way more for Motivation.
I always hated the end of himym, and how disrespectful the writers were about the mother, the woman that ultimately lead the whole story of the show. And now I know that there`s a trope that validate my point. This show ages sooo bad. Each time I revisit any aspect of it, I like it less
Killing the mother was good writing but the robin/Barney divorce and Ted ending up with robin was not good at all 🤢
Same! How lucky they were that they got the casting right, I feel like that was a huge feat they accomplished, and then to sh!t all over that with that horrible ending.
Also, the more mature I get as re-watch, I am horrified by what a scumbag Ted is! Did the writers really think he was a nice guy?
I think the problem HIMYM had is the same GOT had. The last season was somehow not fitting the rest of the show.
if we had spent more time with Ted and his wife and emphasised that Robin was after all the better match and that Ted has to let go and find himself again in a way where it makes sense for him to seek out Robin, it could work.
You can't build up for 5-6 seasons that Ted will meet the mother and that is his endgame. that's several hours of the audience learning that Ted does not belong with Robin but he belongs with the mother.
How should it be normal that years of learning a lesson is undone in 20 minutes?
I am convinced any person that insists the HIMYM ending is good is someone that is fearful of being called emotional.
Our species suffers with a lot of cognitive dissonance, we're not so easily pulled to the other side especially when we have history.
I think it was pretty obvious from early on he was telling the kids the story because the mother was dead. Also the ending was written and filmed years before it aired on TV. The problem is the show was too successful and went on several season longer than they had enough plot for. If it ended after season five or so it would have made more sense.
It could've been such a bittersweet ending by him telling the story and all, but Robin beind bluehorned in felt so wrong there. They should've left with that sadness, a long series ended. Give us a reason to mourn. ^^
“The fundamental problem with putting women in refrigerators...”
The fact that we even have to explain this sentence...
Then don't
@@elongatedmanforever1252 weak response. This video has made you touchy, hasn't it?
@@azulk955 Yes it does annoy me, saying that Only women get "Fridged" it's just a stupid Concept complete BS, made by Feminists with little to no intelligence.
We live in world were if we don't explain men will complain even if it's easy to understand. So it has to be explained step by step and in detail while being careful with the word's so as to not anger men and make them defensive
@@jhonhoppins522 So r you saying men r too dumb to understand?? lmao,
Well I hate to make this ironic but that Comment makes me defensive,
So Touch'e
Also what exactly do you mean by that??
Please cover the "Black Guy Always dies first in a Horror Movie" cliché! 😱☠️
I second this!
Hey Trina, do you watch Shudder? They have a whole documentary on this and further. It is amazing!!!
Maybe it’s just me, but I actually think that trope doesn’t happen as often as it’s made out to be. There are horror films going back as early as the black and white era like Night of the Living Dead where the black guy makes it to the end of the film or is at least the last person to die.
@@huntcd2012 I think it's just you because those that have done the research found a different result. Also one movie doesn't negate all the evidence of the Black guy dying first in horror films.
Night of the Living Dead isn’t the only example. I was just bringing it up because it’s an early example of this trope (the 60s surprisingly enough) not coming into play. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. But I feel like it doesn’t happen as often as it’s made out to be.
Kill Bill is a fridged woman defrosted...maybe that's why i loved it so much.
Oooo good point haha.
It's always "She and I were going to get married and make a family, and now she's gone..."
It's never "She was almost done with her debut novel and she was going to receive an award next week, and now she's gone..."
WE were going to make a family.
Firm foundation for continuing the species.
SHE was going to be awarded.
Pure ego.
SHE didn't get to get married and have kids.
Your hatred for femininity is showing.
@@darrengordon-hill How is getting awarded for something you have spent significant time and effort on egotistical
@@leef6234
Congratulations on winning the prestigious "Darren Gordon-Hill Literary Award"... see how easy it is to male up an award, thus, that it lacks meaning?
Awards are given.
REWARDS ARE EARNED.
Ego alone sees people want things they haven't earned.
She should be happy to be merely REWARDED - via book sales or if they turn it into a show/movie.
"Emmy, Grammys, Tonys, Oscars MOBOs" mere marketing tools; get some funding and even YOU can start one on ANY subject you like!!
"Award winning" is branding!
Estate agents, wineries, delivery companies, loan sharks... do you know these "award bodies"?? Or just assume it must be great cos "awarded"??
"3 time award nominee"
LOSER SOOTHING THEIR EGO WITH FRAMED LANGUAGE!!
Not winning = not winning; nominated or not.
How do you pick books/movies?
If it's based on "awards won/nominated for" you're doing it wrong.
Actress gets paid for movie and percentage of profits.
Plumber gets paid for fixing pipes.
No "awards" needed - pure ego.
@@leef6234
Reward - payment, useful.
Award - object (trophy/certificate), useless.
So yeah, wall full of family photos > a trophy on a shelf.
@@leef6234
Samuel L Jackson has never been AWARDED an Oscar... but he has been REWARDED for his acting and not simply "given money/a trophy".
CERTAIN he prefers PAYCHECKS to trophies.
I remember in I Am Legend, the death of the dog was a lot sadder than the death of the main character's wife and kid. His family was shown a few times in flashbacks but his relationship with his dog after the apocalypse was a lot more significant. I literally cried when he had to put her down.
The death of the dog in I am Legend was sad because the dog was the protagonist's only companion. It wasn't because the death of his dog was more significant than the death of his family. It was the fact that he took comfort in the dog after his family had died and he found himself alone otherwise that made the plot intense.
I swear to god, I sometimes feel like this is the only motivation male writers can give their male protagonists.
@@Chris-rg6nm Oh snap!
It's like they don't know any other reasons for vigilantism, like theft, verbal abuse, bullying, etc.
You just gotta know where to look.
@@Chris-rg6nm its natural as a man to fear for a woman they care about. If anything ,fridging shows to protect women. Also some actors you can't pay forever so its better to kill off the less popular actor.
Writer: WOMAN DEAD, MAN SAD AND ANGRY. RAMPAGE!
Me: *yawns* I don't know what's actually worse, reducing women to facile macguffins or reducing the emotional complexity of men and their relationships to two short strokes. Meh.
Ever consider doing the Latin Lover trope?
Yes, please, I'd love for them to analyse what makes the Hispanic character so dashing and irresistible towards the opposite sex! 😻💘
Yeah, I'll admit it's a little weird, but I usually see it as "the reason Trump calls us r*pists is because it's the only way Trump can internalize how a minority known for being impoverished has better game than him." It could be seen as America fearing it's Southern neighbor as a threat, but also could be a cultural stereotype based on telenovelas much like anime and Asian stereotypes.
Wow. Okay, this is WAY too insightful for a youtube comment. You'd better send that to "The Atlantic" or "Huffington Post" or something.
@@trinaq Are you aware that this trope was made to make us look like predators, right?
@@comparsa1 I find that trope super funny and sexy depending on the movie and I think it can be made respectfully
Deadpool 2 had a double fridging: Cable’s wife and daughter were murdered and the source of his vengeance.
I also think it's romanticized in a way. The fridged woman is always perfect and no one even comes close to her level of perfection. Even making it desirable to be her and being as loved as she is.
Weirdly, I have both noticed this and not noticed this... if this makes sense... this is a really disturbing trope
lol it’s now disturbing when its called a “trope” in this channel
@@DUSTO_I the video literally start explaining that the name was first coined in the 90s... it isn't a "trope" they didn't pull this out of their asses, is around and being discussed for over two decades.
@Vasilijan Nikolovski i guess its disturbing that this awful violence is inflicted just to motivate the protagonist. The clips they showed from films were pretty graphic. Also the frequent rape elements to their murder. Yes theres a lot of violence in media but when its just for cheap motivation...that feels disturbing.
@Vasilijan Nikolovski
The thing is when the concept first started it literally was the motivation for the hero. And it's been continuing ever since. Can it happen to men yes. But as far we can tell its happend to women the most.
@Vasilijan Nikolovski I suppose that's the real luxury of having a fairly male-centric perspective on media criticism. To men it's just bad writing when a trope repeatedly uses female characters as plot devices, but to women it habbitually denies representing a woman's narrative agency. I see it in how film genres are often gendered based on who the main character is. Westerns, gangster flicks, dramas, thrillers, and action films are all stereotypically "male-centric" and tend to garner more critical acclaim. Whereas romcoms, horror films, and period dramas tend to center more female protagonists. Of course these are generalizations and you can spend your time making lists of exceptions, but what this video is really pointing out is how much more often women *suffer* in the more prestigious, and male-centric, genres of film. Note, pretty much all of the movies mentioned in this video were directed by men and featured a male protagonist. I guess you could make the argument that this is a product of laziness and end your critique at that, but my hot take is it's actually more lazy to write off a trope as simply "bad writing" instead of pushing it futher and ask "why is it bad, and why does it keep happening in spite of it's badness".
Me: _I love the Take but they're really gonna run outta "trope" content eventually_
*Posts Video about refrigerator woman*
The Take: _Is that challenge?_
Even if they do run out of tropes, they will probably move to character/movie analysis.
There is ever expanding wkia site for tropes. It even invents many. The Take will be on network television before they run out of that material.
I highly doubt they'll ever run out of tropes, considering how much movies and tv evolve. There will always be new ones to talk about.
Have you ever been to the TV Tropes website?
I’ve lost days of my life on that wiki, friend. This channel will have material long after we’re all dust.
You know there's a whole website dedicated to the ever expanding list of Tropes (I think they must be close to a thousand by now), right?
It's called TV Tropes, although it's not just about TV, but also literature, video games, movies, proffessional wrestling, music, etc. Check it out
Not gonna lie, I first misread the title as “Frigid Woman Trope” and expected it to be about women characterized/stereotyped as “cold” or prudish and how film storytelling treats them 🥶 apparently I was way off (I wasn’t expecting literal fridges!), but this looks very intriguing ❄️
I thought the same thing lol
They should totally do that one though!
Very well know tropes of those who follow tropes in general, but yeah I get how it can be confusing first time someone stumble onto the name
🤣🤣🤣
Same
No one is going to talk about the wife of Mr Freeze who is litterally kept in a ''refrigerator'' of sort, being the passive motivation for his action? No one? Just me?
Thank you. I was looking for this comment
She was literally the first person I thought of when I read the title.
It is not a revenge plot though. He is trying to cure her (If I remember correctly). There was also no violence enacted against her
@@aldoushuxley5953 : that's true, but she is still a ''victim'' of sorts, being there as a passive motivator. I don't know, I don't intend to gest lost in the details, but she felt to me as a good example of the trope
@@elyca6329 Accepted :)
I don't mind the trope of someone's death as character motivation, I just wish it was used more widely across all genders and relationships. The same dynamic repeated over and over gets so stale.
Would still be the same bruh.
@@ChrisCrosswow Well if the trope bothers you you can just not watch media using it. I don't mind, but I wish we had more revenge stories of mother avenging sons and daughters, or sisters avenging brothers. Not only romantic relationships. Instead of "old man and little girl friendship" stories, why not "old woman and young boy" stories? Tropes are to be deconstructed every now and then.
@@Frenchaboo It is used very often across the spectrum. The problem is there are overwhelmingly more male led stories than female led ones.
I'll always mind the trope tbh; a character dying shouldn't be plot device for another one - make the reader/viewer care about the character, grief with the hero or just write a proper motivation. This trope is nothing other than lazyness, like I get it if the writer only really cares about the guy doing cool gun-fu but writing something compelling is literally their job.
I could get in on that but I think the greater challenge for writers to meet is not using human life/liberty/bodily integrity as a gambit. It's become so painfully facile that even mixing up the identities/power dynamics (while it would be an improvement!) is still kinda meh to me. And I'm a writer.
Deadpool tried to use the trope as a joke but i don't know if the joke landed
@Manophere. com dude, in the video they even said this happens to male characters too. They're not saying it doesn't happen to male characters but that it happens way more to female characters. I personally agree with the video.
@@pvrpleheart4093 Manosphere is a troll and regular on this site. Call him horrible names. He wont respond but it is a nice stress relief.
@@Firegen1 Thanks for letting me know, I guess I shouldn't waste my time.
@@pvrpleheart4093 He does this to literally every comment here, so yeah ignore the troll.
@@pvrpleheart4093 It's a false narrative.
The “male superheroes are maimed and harmed too” argument is so weak jfc. they obviously just skip over that they don’t die for anyone else but themselves only. it’s not that hard to see.
@Manophere. com well for Inigo Montoya, sure.
I mean Jason Todd died for Batman
Would you feel much sympathy if the lead's father or husband died?
I feel like this is a cop out to try to come to terms with the fact that it is only violence against women that shocks you.
WebX yeah....no. and yes I’d feel sympathy if a male loved one of the main character died why wouldn’t I? They did it for Big Hero 6, and I felt sympathy. I’m not sure where you me attempting a cop out; I just think you want me to not feel bad for male characters to prove your weird ass agenda
@@bubbles4897 ikr, that was such a weird example.... maes huges dies in fma and he was roys best friend, dude i cry his death, and still does, saying that when a male character dies is not important is so WEIRD
The problem with Black Widow's death is that she didn't get an on screen funeral.
That still bothers me so much. All we got was a 2 minute scene of a few - not all - heroes sitting there moping, while Tony got a big ass funeral with all superheroes. Like... excuse me?!?!
Stop all this Thanos fighting to hold a funeral. Right. What bothers me it is rare whenever anyone takes a shit in an avengers movie. How am I supposed to know the Hulk wipes or not if I didn't see it on the screen.
@@thepermman first of all, why are you so aggressive, wth? Secondly, no one said they had to hold a funeral right there and then, a double funeral for Tony and Nat would have been just fine, but they didn't. She had been a mere mention.
Well the Russo's made Tony's funeral because it was RDJ's last appearance in any more MCU movies, he needed a proper send off. Black Widow will still have her stand alone movie to bring closure to her character.
@@anikachoudhury988 Good point! Yet her death is so easy to forget whereas Tonys is like... the one the most people talk about when it comes to Endgame, which is fine. I just wished for more... closure on her death (if that makes sense?).
almost every female character in a Nolan movie
@@Chris-rg6nm memento, the dark knight, inception, the prestige as far as i can recall
@@RoGersVision also, i haven't seen tenet yet, but by watching the trailer I guess that this trope will be aplied too. If you know you know...
Yes, Tenet is very that!
@@Chris-rg6nm spot the Nolan fanboy
Tenet was especially bad for this.
All was well, until you mentioned the worst villain ever...
TED MOSBY.
(EDIT: Thanks for all the likes, have a nice day and remember stay LEGEN..... wait for it... DARY!!!!)
I completely concur! Even The Take agrees that Ted is secretly a villain, and that he comes off a lot more sleazy nowadays! 😤
So trueee i could not go on watching after a certain point, ted was not it for me
I haven't watched the video yet but before I clicked the read more my first thought was Umbridge
Ugh hes the worst
Hahahhahahahha
But Thanos killing Gamora didn't make him grow as a person. It was him, showing the audience, proving that he is a monster willing to destroy everything to get where he wants, as a "savior" no matter how morally wrong he is.
Yeah, I think they're pointing out how Gamora being killed wasn't her being fridged because she's a fully formed character, but you're right - the fact that Thanos is killing her for his own goals is another way that this isn't a fridging.
If anything it made her sister Nebula grow as a character
Well, hold on now. It did make him grow as a character, just as a villain instead of a hero. Negative growth/development counts - it made him more evil/less 'human', which is even what he wanted. I'm not a big Avengers fan, I'll admit, but I saw the movie in question. He had to destroy/sacrifice/kill the ONE thing or person he loved, right? And in so doing, he broke down the last barrier between him and his version of godmode (pretty literally) and fulfilled his destiny/character arc. It doesn't even seem to matter much to me that he killed her himself because the death of this woman character was solely to service the plot and develop a man character rather than for any reason related to her arc, and this well-rounded kickass woman character was kinda reduced to that death. I saw both Guardians movies and I know the movie in question is a big ensemble and we did get that godawful flashback to Thanos adopting her, but her death really didn't seem to be about her in any way. It was all about the development of her murdery father figure and the advancing of the plot. Perhaps it makes more sense if you think of the killer in all fridged women stories as the writer(s), not the in-story killer. To me, the Thanos/Gamora issue is actually an interesting twist on the trope, if in a way no one wanted.
No, her death was necessary for his character to progress. He had to sacrifice his most precious things to achieve power.
This Bothers me, do these people nowadays Know Thanos is a fucking Villain??!!
I would say Batgirl became stronger and an advocate for the Americans with disable. She did this by becoming Oracle and having a full understanding of the network inside of Gotham City.while also really information to all superheroes inside the DC universe. Nothing happened in the DC universe without her knowledge when she was Oracle. Great video
Wow thanks for the info, i never read comics exepct for watchmen nd the killing joke and i hated the second one for the same reason this video explain, ehy the female has fo suffer the consecuences of violence just to anger the male lead, is atrocious
Yeah she become something like a Nick Fury for DC
@@jjba3571 A lot of people would say her stuff as Oracle was far better than her Batgirl material. Sometimes these things aren't just used to dictate a male characters story, but also advance their own story. In The Killing Joke it was very much Batman's and Commissioner Gordon's story about what would push them over the edge, so it was created to motivate them in that story. But for Barbara Gordon, it changed her story in the comics, and in ways that gave her character a lot of room to grow and change, and as others mentioned, she became a much more central figure in the comics as a result. I'm not sure why they didn't include that in the last section of the video, but I thought it was worth mentioning as an example of the fridging aspect being more complicated.
I preferred her as Oracle if I'm being honest because I prefer Cassandra over Barbara as batgirl
Never heard about this trope! Always learning so much from The Take!
Indeed, this channel always teaches me about how common tropes are employed in media, and why they're typically used! 😍
You don't read comics much do you?
Chill out, what ya yellin' for? Lay back, it's all been done before. And if you could only let it be, you will see that I am the funniest TH-camr of all time. Admit it, my dear follower sta
I guess you're not into comics
Look at the website TV tropes, it'll blow your mind.
Tobias: "Yes, you must have great marriage advice, since you're such an expert. Oh! That's right, your wife is dead!"
*Everyone disapprovingly glares at Tobias*
This trope is interesting. My mother died in car accident when I was 6 year old. She is to this day described as all who knew her 20 years ago as their best friend. The kindest ex hippy who was the soccer mom to the entire coldasack. She met my father who just so happened to be a well to do doctor who ended up treating her like shit. I found out years later from my grandma that she had dreams of being an archeologist working for highway projects. My dad said he knew nothing about these prospects. In order to do what he thought was best my dad gave me a stepmom (the woman he cheated on my mom with) who ended up having a personal vendetta against me since I was 7. Starting when I was 10 she told me for years that she thought I was going to kill her one day and she already told my dad grandma aunt and the police. After years of watching her emotionally abuse me while getting fkkt by her when they divorced all of a sudden he cares about what she did to me now that he’s being scrood over . My dad is the current villain in my life.
I’m sorry to hear. Damn
Overlord Galvatron as someone who’s dabbled with writing in the past I feel like this trope is a trauma inspired one. I appreciate it.
Did they believe your stepmom ? they should have known that she hated you.
Sudeep Ambati he knows and knew at the time like I said I feel like his reactions to me have been based on what he was or is getting. As for the others It was her family and didn’t seem to think much of her treatment to myself. They kind of just observed as I’m sure family does when they witness emotional abuse.
@@beyondgenesis2954 have you ever considered writing a book about your story? It could be a good therapy
And that's just it isn't it, the whole concept of "fridging" wouldn't even be such a huge problem if a story simply has a lot of well drawn out female characters, LGBTQ+ characters, or characters of color existing already. No one is critiquing that characters can't suffer or die or that character death isn't often a powerful way to get reactions out of the audience, but rather the frequency of who it happens to and how those characters are treated within the narrative.
The problem isn't the individual examples, the problem is the pattern.
She-Ra: Five seasons of the most well rounded character development, plot, and is about as close to perfect in that regard. Representation without making a big deal about it, and so far the only show to effortlessly use gender neutral pronouns. ;) imo
But there are a lot of people who dislike fridging as a concept. Saying character death shouldn’t be used as character motivation and I disagree.
I disagree that some quota should be required. By that logic, an all gay cast killing the one straight character shouldn't be allowed.
I took the title literally and thought they were going to talk about Mr Freeze in Batman & Robin
Same, I thought more of this would be about Nora Fries...I did like the take on them in Harley Quinn!
Yeah right, where was Nora Fries?!
I always hated this trope.
Ditto, it's SO overdone, and the fridged character only exists to get whacked and fridged, furthering the protagonist's plot, while staying underdeveloped themselves! 😤
I agree but I don't think all the examples they used are really valid examples of it and a lot of them felt like reaching out to other tropes.
It’ll always be a thing. But this happens way more often to parents, who don’t need to developed. So many stories have dead parents.
Let me guess a liberal feminist?
I personally don’t think you should hate it, so much as be leery of it. The video even points out that it’s not always a bad trope, just a frequently misused one.
I would love to hear you guys talk about any tropes regarding pregnant women. Maybe how they're sidelined in stories or whatever.
Start with Skylar in Breaking Bad. Anna Gunn claimed in a roundtable with the Hollywood Reporter she went to the writers when they were filming the pilot and asked why her character wasn't given more to do, and they replied, "Well, she's pregnant, she's taking it easy." Anna Gunn's response was, "Yeah, and?" Like the writers' whole idea of her as a character began and ended with the fact that she was carrying a fetus inside her. Gunn also said she had to reconcile with the fact that her character was going to largely be in reaction to Walter instead of having her own arcs.
And I truly think that was a root cause of why Skylar was so hated by the fans, because early on the writers failed to give her a complete arc or space to be her own person early on, and even her moments of agency later were still directly tied to Walt. I also think Kim on Better Call Saul is the response to those initial failures.
And the mystical pregnancy. That's a bad one.
Fargo.
There’s this female character is The Last Kingdom season 4 who is pregnant for the entire season and still fights and holds power. I love it, no one told her to stop, her plot line didn’t halt because she’s a woman who’s pregnant and “weak.” My respect and adoration for the show grows greater all the time.
@@TicklishCrown Pardon me, but wouldn't fighting and doing extreme sorts of physical activity put the unborn child at risk? One of the many aspects that people hated about last of us part 2 was Abby's group bringing a pregnant doctor along with them in an expedition in a zombie apocalypse instead of having her stay at the base. People criticized this because this threatened the child.
I see fridging as following the following criteria:
1. Violence against women, through, maiming, murder, death, etc.
2. FOR the sole motivation of usually a male character.
And often not a fleshed out character.
If you follow the 1 AND 2, then a lot of the time male fridging is a lot rarer than female fridging.
The other part that bothers me about fridging is that it often normalizes violence against women by showing it over and over again through male eyes. Because she's demoted to property it seems like this is the way you get revenge against other men. But I really, really hate the idea that normalizing violence against women is so common and OK as long as she's faceless to you.
Male fridging is rarer because there are far less stories with female main characters.
The sheer ego in saying "they raped and killed my wife to get to ME". Just, ugh. Yeah, it was only about you.
@@sammykent5752 Disagree here. Usually the ones with fridging have male writers to start with and cis het men tend to be clueless about how to write women. When [cis het] men write women they often obsess over the wrong things. So the problem is more like there isn't enough female producers, writers and management to balance the differentials. And in any case, women are less likely to fridge male characters overall since the focus of the story isn't usually a revenge in the same way and the violence isn't communicated in the same way. (For European-based stories)
@5,ooo LightYears Away The problem is that woman is object in these movies so saying that an object experiences a "Horrible" thing rather than how it is personalized to the person so that the audience feels for the person being HURT, not the person who wants to take revenge in their name, is the whole problem with fridgeing. It's just an added bonus that often it's violence, and because the woman is an object, it doesn't matter what happens to her, as long as it is violence. Because the woman is an object, and violence is done to her and you never see her feelings, and how she feels about the violence against her, only from male eyes, it normalizes the violence because the person being maimed doesn't have a journey back to being "normal" You don't see their trauma or suffering. You only see proxy, so it becomes mindless violence with the wrong message.
It's missing the EQ, which makes it much easier to repeat and show violence against women, because that woman was never really a person to begin with.
It's worth it to also examine implicit bias here. How much does the normalization of violence against women and women as objects perpetuate the violence shown in society as well?
@@sammykent5752 No it's not You know Uncle Ben exists.
Would be nice if women had more agency and were actual protagonist in more movies, then this trope would be much less sexist.
@Manophere. com yeah, Katana in that film isn't the protagonist. Also she's barely speaks in it.
It's not Sexist it happens to men more then women.
Women are protagonists in tons of movie. Just not action movies (which also tend to be the blockbusters nowadays) because men are attracted to these types of movies more, so more men take the leading roles. Rom-coms, it is women who take the leading roles usually because it has a predominately female audience. There is obviously a space for female stars, looking at the success of Wonder-Woman and Captain Marvel, but as long as men continue to make up the majority of action film movie-goers, more blockbusters will star men.
@@kakophonien6514 That's not the reason, but I doubt I'll be able to convince you otherwise.
@@Ray03595 I dont mind if more Action movies with women r made I think that's Good, but the thing I hate is how idiots Constantly complain that it's predominantly men, These people Don't understand the Terms "Quality over Quantity" that one good movie is better then a bunch of bad ones, & There r some male lead movies that r just bad, these people want to just take over & change things.
ooh supernatural is guilty of this trope a lot
Oh Yes, they've been doing it since the very FIRST episode, with Sam's girlfriend, who is hardly ever mentioned after her sudden demise! 😂
Oh my God, YEEEEES! I absolutely love Supernatural, it’s my favorite show (specially seasons 1-5), but this is one of the most infuriating aspects of the series! I mean, the pilot episode ALONE has two refrigerated women, and fhey kept on doing it over and over again, even ten years later with Charlie...
Let's face it, much as I have loved Supernatural at points, its treatment of women on the whole is TERRIBLE
You say guilty as if it's a bad thing? Considering the show is about the Winchester brothers, it makes sense, no? Everything and everyone on the show revolve around the main characters. Every trope under the sun is used to motivate them on the show.
@@Luciphell It IS a bad thing. Regardless of who the show is about, diminishing women to the role of: object that dies so main characters can go brrrr, is the problem. So what if the story is about the Winchester brothers? That doesn't provide a VALID reasoning for fridging. EVERY fucking movie revolves around the main man, yet we're STILL calling out fridging as an unacceptable trope. There should be more EFFORT put into the writing, not more excuses made for shitty writing.
Christopher Nolan said no woman lives on my watch.
Oh boy 🙄
Catwoman?
Please make a video on the wildcard tropes like Loki, Varys, Littlefinger and Jack Sparrow.
Aren't they just so-called "chaotic" characters? (maybe not Varys - but the other three, I'd say, are all chaotic neutral/evil)
I feel like Kill Bill really turns this trope on its head
it really doesn't. at all. it only shows that revenge is a very common motivation for action & western film protagonists. it more than andthing shows that it's not actually about the death of WOMEN being exploited but death of any loved one. there just happen to be much less films in these genres with female leads. but it wouldn't be a hot TAKE if it wasn't trying to point out sone form of discrimination.
Jonas Pinta not just western. The reason Tarantino melded samurai swords in the desert is because Samurai movies are very similar to cowboy movies, with the themes including a revenge story. It’s innately human to want revenge. So it is technically doing something when the story is from a woman’s point of view, since both cowboy and samurai movies tend to be male-centered
@@McSnezzly yeah I mean tbh what they're saying is "it's not that wrong, but it becomes boring after the 10000th time" (and if you can replace a human person for an OBJECT then you hadn't really been thinking about a person, it's just a cliche)
@@McSnezzly More than similar. Spaghetti westerns straight out just copied full plotlines from Japanese cinema. 7 Magnificent Samurai and pocket full of Jims soring to mind.
But, she take revenge for herself, for her unborn kid, for putting her in a coma in a hospital bed where she was raped, not for her husband hahahahaha she didnt remember him or name him, she states during the whole film "what he took for me" meaning her kid. But yeah kill bill is one pf my favorite movies with a female as lead
Me : there can't be anymore tropes to be explored
The Take : WOMEN IN REFRIGIRATORS TROPE
Same lol 😂😂
Jesus Christ this shit is everywhere. Why is a channel doing another video ion the same sorts of things that they’ve always done videos on so fucking amazing to you?.
They haven't done disabled characters.
Killing and hurting women for entertainment.... SICK 😕
Next time you watch an action movie, compare violence against men and women. Every time a woman is slapped, a hundred men are killed or tortured. Every time a woman is killed, the entire plot is pushed along by it. There are almost no cases of eliciting sadness over the death of a husband or father. The difference is NOT that violence against women is depicted more. The difference is that the only time you care is if it's a woman.
So.....killing and hurting men for entertainment......sick 😕
So now we can’t have violence in movies lmao it’s not that deep women get killed in hurt in movies and men get killed and hurt in movies, are you suggesting we have no more horror or action? As HUMANS we tend to get hurt and killed that’s life regardless of gender and they portray it in movies because there’s not a lot of genders to pick from........
I bet you would freak the hell out if a woman in A movie gets a paper cut, wtf is Wrong with you??
Making this false narrative that women r just killed for pleasure you're a Idiot.
@@user-xi6xi6di7n It's almost like action movies cater to their predominately male audience... Crazy
@@Ray03595 Exactly, that's not to say some women can't enjoy it,
Everyone can like it but it appeals to men more, These wackjobs can't understand that.
I've always noticed this similarly with the main protagonist being an orphan, with parents having died usually before the story starts.
As always, it's how you USE a trope, not necessarily the trope itself
Both can be the problem.
The "Cool girl" trope was problematic. Also the bad boy, the nice guy, the strong black woman trope. For some reason or another but they sended a bad message
I don't agree with that statement, some tropes can't be used right in my opinion
@@andreaguzman4885 The manic pixie dream girl was too. It can lead to people overromanticizing their partners without noticing the real person infront of them.
A J - Welcome to The Take. They make whole videos about your Captain Obvious statement. Did you watch this one?
I had no idea what this trope was called, the title of the video really confused me
i truly thought it was about women being literally put in refrigerators lol
IKR, I also expected a series of movies with women stuck in refrigerators and was like - tell me more.
(I hate this trope, by the way).
Same
malu ha ha😂
Radhia Deedou I had heard about along time ago with the Mary Sue trope.
I was ruminating on this trope the other day because I started ‘The Umbrella Academy’ recently and I really like it but Detective Patch’s death felt pretty fridgey to me, which pissed me off because I liked her as a character. Today, you post a video on this and there’s a brief clip or two of her so I feel VINDICATED
I feel like most of these clichés could be resolved just by better writing. Just make women actual characters with a personality, and not just plot devices.
When you watch movies do the movies usually show the characters going to the bathroom? No? Why not? It's not relevant. When you cut out irrelevant things you get better movies. A character might be nothing more than a macguffin. So? They might seem like a random person to you, but you don't need to watch the characters make out for 3 hours to know the character was important to the protagonist.
they are, just in different movies.
Just like the guy protagonist in chick flicks is not explored, because the movie is not about them, the women is not explored either, because the stories mentioned are primarily about revenge and loss.
I would like to see more movies with this trope genderflipped (for both types of movies), but then, nobody ever watches those...
Also stop making female characters unstoppable yes queen Slay badasses That beat up every Man that they come in contact with.
A lot of good Female characters do have Personality but just because they aren't badass wahmen "who Destroy the patriarchy" , so they r treated as they don't exist.
@@elongatedmanforever1252 A lot of "good" female characters are men with boobs, is another way to put it.
I think this is actually something, where more female writers would be useful. At least when it comes to writing female protagonists in films
I hate this trope.
@Manophere. com They cover thst you idiot
@@Firegen1 Be nice.
@@KamenRiderOtaru Not to Manophere, he is a deliberate troll to this channel and one that deals with sexual assault. TH-cam wont remove him so I enjoy baiting him.
@@Firegen1 ) couldn't have said it better.
Could you do a video analysis on 'How Women Are/Have Been Portrayed in Musicals'. Theres a lot of casual sexism within musicals, such as how every female is motivated or her personality is centred on love; she is portrayed as a muse to a male; often the main character is naive but still gains a good ending; how 'the whore' type is punished more than the 'virginal' woman (Les Miserables or Hamilton); and how the female characters are rarely as juicy/ interesting as the male characters. Even the secondary male characters have better personality in various layers as compared to the main female protagonist. Would really love a series on 'Females in Musicals'!!
@@Chris-rg6nm Yes?... I didn't say I thought the musical was fictional, I used both Les Miserables and Hamilton as an example of portraying the idea of the 'Madonna Whore' complex
Hamilton amended out some details including what Angelica got up to in England. It would be wiser to base it on melodrama as a lot of early musicals have there badis there. Melodrama has classically used stock characters so therein lies yoir answer.
@Manophere. com I'm not saying that by talking about females in musicals there cannot be analyses of the dead fathers or husbands (although I don't understand what you are referencing as I can only think of fenale characters that die, like Les Miserables; Mis Saigon; Hadestown; Into the Woods).
@Firegen1 I was thinking more so on how theres the idea of the Madonna Whore complex in Hamilton with Eliza and Maria, and although I understand this was done due to focusing the story on Alexander, it is somewhat annoying that Eliza and Angelica's personalities are based on love or the 'good wife/mother' character with Eliza, and then have Peggy who isn't interested in Alexander be a joke and then Maria to be a cliche of the 'slut' despite her life with a abusive husband.
YES ANNA ROSE I agree, almost all the songs the female protagonists have are all about men, many musicals fail the Bechdel test, and there are few female principal roles while guys have so many roles (ex. Aida). We can also see the Madonna-Whore complex in "Jekyll and Hyde" "Gentleman's Guide" and so many more, where the wife lives unloved and the "whore" dies or suffers irreparably :((
I think it’s interesting that in some of these instances, where it happens at the beginning, there will be another woman in the story. Almost as if not only was the wife/girlfriend killed off for motivation, but to clear the decks for the hero to have more romance. The Austin Powers example with Vanessa lampshaded this perfectly. They killed her off at the beginning of a sequel, after the first movie used her to give him his happy ending, so that he could have a new romance.
Yes! That's another thing that bothers me! When the lead actress from the first movie isn't in the sequel so the guy can have the chance to win some other girl 😕 Why is she so replaceable?
Maybe the actress said no to the sequel but it still bothers me ...
to be perfectly honest I too would go on a murderous rampage if someone killed my beloved pet
If anyone purposefully hurt my cat, nevermind killed him, I would absolutely go on a revenge rampage.
I think that's mentally ill but I'm also at peace with that 😂
Id love to see you do a video on kidcoms or sitcoms about kids. Notably, the stuff we normally see on Disney and Nickelodeon
I love Loud House on Nick.
"pre-fridged", "fridging" english is beautiful
I had never watched the movie Seven until recently, I know its cinematic art and a great movie, but I swear, Gwyneth's character is the only female character and her only purpose in the movie is to be a loving wife and die at the end, I felt so weird about it, because its so familiar. I'm honestly tired of all of the interesting, flawed characters being men. There is way too much of that.
I agree with you, Hollywoke doesn't seem to be interested in making female Charecters interesting, because that would mean they have to struggle & be vulnerable & not always be "strong" , writers r horrified of doing that, for fear of being called Sexist, And Feminists aren't helping they want female characters to be 1 dimensional Machines with breasts.
suggestion:
The wallflower trope
There are a lot of example like Lars from the "Lars and the Real Girl".
I only have an issue with it when that's literally their *sole* purpose of being in the story or their entire character's purpose was basically a lead up to them dying to be motivation.
Using death as a motivation can be used well, but only when we care about the character that is dying, not just that fact that someone died. A perfect counterexample to this is the "Wise Master" trope, where we actually take the time to care about the teacher before they get killed. Whereas a wife or daughter gets killed and we are just expected by the writer to care about them because of their preconceived relationship to the main character. It's just lazy writing
Fair point and I agree. Still, I think that there's something to be said about the overuse of this trope and how it affects people.
If you pay closer attention, theoretically, every character is there only to service the main character. It's stupid to think otherwise, that's why it's the MAIN character. It's his/her/their story. The PROTAGONIST. The character who's narrative gives rise to the THEME. The theme doesn't come out of the side characters, not alone anyways. There's also a huge number of movies where it's not a girlfriend or wife - but parents, children, siblings, entire families who die (Batman is one of the MOST popular stories in the WORLD, more popular than any of the movies they mentioned, everyone knows his character motivation) - but of course this channel only focuses on the women (fair enough, it's a feminist channel) but then you end up skewing the perspective and the trope ends up looking mysoginistic/sexist when it isn't.
@@AnimeWolf5193 absolutely, to how with the frequency it happens with women shows how disposal they are viewed by storytellers or how the fact that death of someone you love, in real life, tends to emotionally scar and damage people more than inspire them is still being used as a trope as if it's normal. Sexism with the former and a unrealistic standard of masculinity with the latter. It's a giant can of worms, which makes it a great topic of discussion
@@aDriveAway did you watch the video? They had an entire section discussing what you just said.
The issue isn't that it happens to women, the issue is that when it happens to women, which it proportionally happens to more, they also tend to get little to no characterization before their deaths.
@@jamesburgess2k What characterization did Batman's parents get other then being rich? That's inherent in the idea of a side character, that they get little characterization, and often times, they get borderline none because in the essence of time the writers have a story to tell, the main character's.
I’m just glad you acknowledged the counterexamples
Yes, Drogo and Viserys dies so that Dany can unlock God-mode, but The song of ice and fire is quite unique. Sure Jack is a stepping stone for Rose in Titanic, but he dies in the end and the story of Rose after Jack is not really explored. But Tony Stark dies to save the universe after being a protagonist in multiple movies, he is not killed so that his girlfriend can unlock her hidden potential and start her story. I think the video discusses this critique quite well. However I do think that killing parents to set off the hero's story is equally common as killing off a emotionally important woman to do the same.
Uggghhhh, Mako in "Pacific Rim 2" really hit a nerve. She was AWESOME in the original and the fact that she didn't hook up with the lead male character in the end sparked a debate on whether a "Mako Test" should be alongside the Bechdel test if the major female characters in the movie don't end up talking to each other but also never hook up with the protagonist. She gave hope to a LOT of Asian actresses I know that they could be the lead in a successful movie... and then Mako gets killed before the first act ends in the sequel without even doing anything. On the other hand, she WAS played by Rinko Kikuchi, who tends to die in all her movies, either by getting killed outright (Pacific Rim 2, Norwegian Wood, Map of the Sounds of Tokyo) or implying that she died (The Brothers Bloom, Kumiko the Treasure Hunter).
Sure, Vanessa was a fully realized character in Deadpool - and one I liked very much - but she also had her mercenary past and shapeshifting powers stripped away to simplify her in the "girlfriend" role. Removing her own agency and leaving her more vulnerable has to be like some sort of pre-fridging.
According to Dennis, a severed head in a freezer is the very symbol of love.
the preservation of love, for ever and ever!
Christopher Nolan is the absolute worst at this. His treatment of women is as troubling as it is consistent.
True.
I dont remember who said this but : his movies are about a woman but never include a woman lead.
Never think of it actually.
I wish my troubles consisted of film critiques.
@@gavinhillick, mistreatment of women, and the normalization of it, is a real trouble for countless people.
@@racewiththefalcons1 How does he do that?
Where was this when I was writing my graduation paper on the trope? :)) Anyways, the take has some of the best analysis videos on youtube right now.
Whenever i see a female pursue a protagonist in a grimdark story, i always yell at the screen/page "girl ruuuuuunnnn!"
Love what you all say about it not being the point to call out specific stories as being problematic, but rather the problem being that a larger trend exists.
Batgirl did recover but even when disabled, she used her abilities to fight crime as Oracle
Yeah, she was even more impressive as Oracle than as Batgirl.... kinda bugged me they used her as an example when she was properly defrosted
It's because other writers decided to "defrost" Barbara Gordon later, making her Oracle. But in Killing Joke itself she is a clear example of woman in refrigerator
Even all these years later I’m furious they killed Tracy, the last few minutes of HIMYM doesn’t exist as far as I’m concerned
This reminds me of Marion Crane from "Psycho." She's in the movie for 40+ minutes before being killed off, yet she's a very interesting and arguably well-developed character. Which fits in with this vid's message that the death of a 3-dimensional character is more compelling/impactful. Plus, Marion's death motivates her sister more than her boyfriend.
3:23 I never knew Christopher Walken giving writing advice was something I needed in my life, but I'm glad I have found it.
Thought-provokong video as usual! I'm surprised the "dead mum" trope wasn't mentioned that much, it's especially common in teen and family films. Would be great to have a video on that actually!
"Martha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Although to be fair, Batsy had a dead dad too, and Superman's parents are only dead in a few versions of his story (and it's usually his Dad who's gone, usually by like.. a heart attack... with his Mom as a Widow).
i think it just is so often l a z y. like if theres a specific narrative REASON that THIS character died THIS way that couldntve been accomplished any different way, fine; but if its just the easiest, fastest way to get to Man Pain then its simply bad writing lol
Man Pain *cackles*
Man pain wtf!!?? 🤣😂😂😂😂
I'm feeling a lot of man pain reading this Idiotic Comment.
@@afternoonsunjeans9180 stupid 🤣😂😂😂
Elongated man Forever .....what about it is stupid lmao its pain for a man character like im not seeing what you’re seeing its just Two Words
@@crstph Wtf?!! Is man pain?? Them being heartbroken they lost someone in death??
What?? Dude men & women have pain they go through when they fail, lose someone & Experience a tragedy, the fact you think it's a concept called "manpain"
Is Disturbing & it reflects our current climate, Ignoring of men's issues & being Obsessed with women's to the unhealthy degree, People don't put women in the same Situation as men & I just find that kinda Sexist,
Because these people nowadays r always regulating them into Victims, & you wonder why stories like Captain marvel or birds of prey don't resonate with people, because it's all about identity politics, & making men out to be evil & of course in a environment where that's constantly being promoted you're gonna think men's pain is Foreign, because you can't understand someone that you think is the Villain,
Literally people think women r better people then men & this nonsense needs to end.
This is just a plot device to avoid writing convincing dialogue. The wifey can be reproduced as a pretty video montage while we focus on Our Hero's emotional journey. If she was alive, she'd have something to say about him rushing off to save the world and ignoring their safety etc.
This usually applies to revenge fantasy stories.
That’s such a weird name for a trope
@Manophere. com this made literally no sense
This channel always has the best movie discussions and I love it, thanks for great videos all the time!
Flashback to the Supernatural panel at the San Diego Comic Con when a fan called out the writers for their treatment of female characters, specifically the death of Charlie (a fan favorite who was killed by boring characters and left in a bathtub), and no one knew how to properly respond...
Supernatural is the first thing I thought of when I saw this video. Even in the first ep both Jess and Mary are killed for their male love interest (Sam and John) to go and become hunters.
*Please do a video on "Coming of Age" films!*
I'd love to see you guys do a Take on robot/android/AI characters in movies and tv: for example, how they are sometimes used to either represent the best (usually when they're the protagonists--untarnished innocence/love, enthusiasm to learn new things, fighting for individuality/personhood) or worst (when they're the villains--being cold, calculating, unable to feel any kind of selfless love) qualities of humanity as a whole.
Also there's a bit to unpack with ethicality of having robot characters be stand-ins, or have qualities/experiences adjacent, to those of people from marginalized groups (namely POC or those who are neurodivergent), especially when people in said groups are already starving for positive representation of themselves in media.
Anyways, love your videos! Keep up the good work, ladies!
That would be amazing! This here Aspie (whose family used to call her Data ;) would adore a Take on Data, GladOs, and all the wonderful Artificial Life forms between!
@@neuralmute I do like portal 2
Just discovered this channel and im so happy i did! It is fantastic. I love your nuanced explanation and incredibly well edited videos. You guys are amazing!
I love your videos so much!!! I especially love how you show how certain tropes and ideas are more complex than just "thing good" or "thing bad"
Omg I would love to see The Take do some videos on "The Boys"... it's such an amazingly written show with great, complex characters, and the themes that are explored are *chef's kiss*
Surprised that The Crow wasn’t featured in this at all.
I thought about that too but I guess The Crow was, in some instances, the best example of how to use the fridged woman trope. It's been awhile, but in the graphic novel and film didn't Eric die along with his wife when his home was invaded, but his pain was so great he came back from the dead to avenge her? Not saying it's the most original, and she definitely got the angel-saint treatment, but I found it to be at least narratively authentic, rather than just a crutch.
To cut the author some slack, he wrote this story as his way of coping the loss of his fiancee.
The writer/artist of The Crow, James O'Barr, lost his fiancee to a drunk driver when he was in his 20's. He wrote the Crow to deal with the pain and anguish of losing the woman he loved due to the carelessness and selfishness of somebody else.
It's not all about you.
@@ChrisR395 Agreed. One thing I try to keep in mind about tropes like these is understanding what was going in through the creator's mind/what themes or morals are trying to be told, etc. In this case, the author wasn't trying to be lazy or discriminatory. He just wanted an outlet for his grief.
Basically this whole videos argument would be summed up as, "Write friging better and it works beter, with out dehumanizing the character being fridged".
Oh my god I blocked out what happened to Missandei, that one was particularly egregious.
The frist episode of The boys the guy girl gets killed by A train
and everything about billy and becca works on the same way. it's such a shame since this shows brings some dicussions about womens issues
@@giovannasousa697 great point! have you been watching the current season?
Giovanna Sousa it's not a shame tho, bc this trope does not equal bad. also it's from older comics.
kai hitt That was my first clue that I wasn’t gonna like the show. Like the showrunner’s went out of their way to make the white guy sympathetic, they made him nerdy and gave him a black girlfriend so you know he’s one of the good guys. And then they kill the black girlfriend cause what they truly wanted to focus on was the guy hooking up with the blonde haired blue eyed girl from next door. Like literally in the next episode he’s flirting with blondy, and only brings up his dead gf for sympathy points😒😒😒
The show was created by the creator of “Supernatural”. Two men bonding over their lost ladies seems to be a similar plot point.
It's kind ironic this uses Gwen Stacy in the thumbnail since her death was the one that begun the women in refrigerators in comics, while not being an example herself- the writers wanted to write her out because they felt there was nothing to do with her anymore but have her get married to Peter Parker, who was too young to do so, still being his late teens/early 20's, and didn't feel like they had a way to break them up that would be in character. But the story was so successful that is usually pointed as the mark that ends the Silver Age of comic books- because it added a realistic and darker tone and made it possible for important characters to die. At the same time, writers knew they could use death as a trick to get people talking and reading, and being able to kill characters made writers think that was a way to be edgy and cool.
Also ironically, Uncle Ben is essentially a male in refrigerator, since he only existed to be killed and motivate Spider-Man.
Men should only be in Refrigerators don't ya know.
You people should check on Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice; it is about a Celtic warrior woman going on a journey for bringing her dead boyfriend back. She has psychosis and because of her condition, people in her life including herself think she is cursed. Her journey is about accepting death and embracing herself. Its is a great game.
In the footage from the PG 13 Deadpool 2, wherein Fred Savage in a meta commentary rips into Deadpool for fringing the girlfriend and how its a lazy and tired trope. It was kind of a lazy apology/acknowledgement but it made me chuckle nonetheless.