Hello Sam do you get any bikes with the Polini motor in? 90Nm fully serviceable a great motor. I don't see why more bike manufacturers aren't fitting them in their bikes !
Great review. Everyone is going nuts for the AMFLOW at the moment. There’s a bike shop near me where the owner has 26 units on preorder. He’s tested one himself and says it’s a total game changer. Should be interesting to see how it stacks up against all these bikes on test here!
Wait for a major brand to implement this system. Not looking to be an early adopter only to find that the bike sits because of repairs, recalls, ect. Bigger brands will do their homework and provide a better overall experience.
I've been away from bikes for about 30 years now. I purchased a bike about 2 weeks ago and realized I'm too old and out of shape for this thing. I just ordered a Husqvarna mc2 and can't wait on it to get here. It wasn't the bike I wanted but for 3000 US I think it's the best deal out there. I just found your channel and I love it 👍
Hey Sam. RACE motor is way more powerfull than new CX Performance ( Some say it is not GEN 5...it is CX Performance BDU38 in Bosch nomenclature ) You forgot 400% assist on Race model vs new model´s 340%. Race also gives the rider better power boost, just when it is needed the most. At the new model Bosch advertises, that they have reinterpreted the sensor signals collected from inertial sensors, cadence sensors, and speed sensors, but we will see...Because the RACE motor got it's software also completely new ( vs regular CX4), it is lighter, I have read it has titanium housing (?) and it is specially designed for eMTB racing, the riding mode impresses with energetic direct support. S, at this zime, I would choose RACE model. But if Race will not get any new possible updates, then.... Anywy, thx again for presentation of the bikes, you did it awsome, like we expect you to.
In paper, yeah the Race is. I have that motor and really like it. But the new CX is much more refined. The gentle touch you get from it makes climbing even the slippiest terrain possible. I've ridden it stock, and not dialled in to suit my preferences yet - but it's very different. I think the CX might be able to trump the Race on steeper terrain - but need to try some head to head stuff.
@DoddyMTBtech Doddy thanks for your input mate, yep very different motors but great in their own way. I did a hill climb test and they are about the same over 40 seconds but the Gen5 felt slower probably because it’s more controlled.
I’m warranty replacing my Crestline gen 4 CX race after 550 miles.so yeah I’m down for a newer quieter more reliable motor.Race mode is fun but not absolutely necessary for most riders and at 400% assist,in my experience with it I’m sure puts that much extra stress on the older design. The CX gen 5 (newer build),as most are predicting,will have power updates and refinements in the not too distant future.so it’s a win for me. I have a newer Bosch 5 Crestline S180 coming in dec. Stoked.
Hey Sam, great to see the channel grow, you are always one of my first stops when it comes to new e-bikes etc 👏 yeah I think Shimano are in a bit of a sticky station unless they have a Ace up their sleeves they may actually consider pulling out of the motor game as what big brands still us them 🤷♂️ the market has so many options and is so competitive now bike manufacturers are spoilt for choice for their bikes and the industry does not carry any dead weight.
Pivot went with the race because they wanted big battery and the new 800wh battery takes more space in the downtube, meaning it has got more volume and they should make a bigger downtube.On the other hand, Crestline went with the new motor, since the new 800wh battery fits wihout a problem on their existing frame.So, to complete the stable of new bikes in 2025 we should also wait the upcoming 2025 Levo, the new Bullit probably with a Bosch, as well as a longer travel Amflow. Moustache is coming up with a Pinion belt driven enduro this spring and finally Deviate announced entering emtb with a 170/170 or 180 high pivot bike, which will be the equivalent to the Claymore. Cheers!
Pivot are boutique but also can be a bit shit, had a Mach 6 from them. The xx1 11 speed didnt fit inside the rear axle without a little metal spacer they sent in the mail after complaining, the cable routing was terrible and rubbed holes in peoples seat stays, sizing / geo out to lunch. My point is being “Boutique \ expensive” means often less testing prior to delivery to customers.
Out here in Arizona where Pivot has its home offices- there are 2 types of Pivot riders. One is the bike shop employees and all their bros. Plus the racers who get 30-40% off retail. The other type are the bros that live up on the hill- and can afford 4 or 5 different bikes for different days/moods.And everyone of those bikes has 5k in upgrades. Do the math- 10-15 usd into 4 or 5 different bikes. That’s just my observations 😁
Hey Sam, can you take a look at the spider clutch (crank freewheel) when you get a test Rocky SL to see if it's different from the full power bikes version? I'm hoping they improved the sealing of the bearings because they take a lot of looking after to keep them in good condition at the moment, especially in winter slop. Thanks!
I feel that all those bikes still can't compare to Levo, where the battery is closer to the motor (Bosch big batts are way more forward and higher) - better handling and easily removable/swappable.
@SamsBikes if shimano was to "stop producing" ebike motor, they weren't spending time in upgrading the app and motor, for me the reason is for the European brands is less expensive to buy bosch instead of shimano. Nowadays there is a lotof bikes to choose, just need to have big pockets
I guess the diffrent between Gen 4 race and the Gen 5, is that the Gen 4 race is more power full and requires a really technical rider to handle. The Gen 5 is not som aggressive and are more easily to handling. Common People wants to have much power, but the people that's race wants to have a "smart" enging with many sensors that makes the engine to climber with a good grip😁. For me, I think it's sad that the technology taking over the funny parts of cycling Emtb's, like ABS, electric suspension, automatic gearbox.......or 😅
Interesting that Cotic… but I have something with the SLs, the new Merida looks awesome, the RM is gonna be a blast for sure, but man, that Kenevo is mental.
Haven’t tested the G5 Bosch yet but def know full size ebikerS coming into the market are STILL hecklers lol They still think it’s cool to mob uphill super faster with no attention to battery capacity or sound. Totally different animal than us SL ebikerS.. btw that one off SL Kenivo looks siiick boi!! 🤩
I am wandering. Where is Giant in between all these competitors? Its the only big manufacturer left so much behind in the competition. What do you say Sam?
For me, the EP801 with the new race firmware is better than the Gen4 Bosch CX (non race)..... Potentially the Moterra SL being lighter than most other full power bikes plays a part, but I need not have worried. It's a flyer.
@@SamsBikes HaHa love it :D Imagine they used to have a 500cc two stroke championship in MotoGP not so long ago, which is pure insanity. And Valentino Rossi was the last champ of that class, if I remeber correctly. Anyway I need to try that Bosch race motor ;)
Surprised there's been no ZF CentriX based bike announcement from any of the major intentional brands.. 🤔 The Raymon Tarok looks like a good bike, though a very Europe focused brand.
Good evening Sam, congratulations on the Kenevo SL. I also have the same bike, I like the idea of the DH38 fork. I would like to ask you a question, what travel does the fork have? Many thanks
Only thing I'm replacing my gen 3 levo with is the gen 4 levo! Any news of that Sam? And yes, I think Shimano are struggling in the ebike space, and from what I hear of their warranty service they totally deserve to. Some shocking stories and many of them.
I’m hearing you! Yep there have been some whispers but nothing concrete yet! I feel Shimano have finally got the motor working really well but it seems a lot of brands are moving on.
@andrea Yes and they are assembled IN germany or were a few years ago and the service network is huge in Germany . i have an older cube with the 75 Nm CX . it shut down on my second ride . i took it to the shop and they fixed it in 30 seconds . it was a software issue .
I have Maura mt5 brakes can I put a hc3 lever on them I know you don’t have to respond but I would like answer from someone who loves Maura brakes.thank you
Shimano is well known for their slow development pace and long product lifecycles. Some people like this approach, but looks like it might not work in their favor with ebike systems.
Does any other motor manufacturer impose "Gimp Mode" on their supposedly valuable customers? I am spitting feathers about this bullsht! If I spend 4K+, it's up to me what I choose to do with my purchase, so WTF gives Bosch the right to mess their customers around?! Who the fk do they think they are, the freekin Police or something?! And BTW, "Gimp Mode" and quite often happens randomly, not just because of tampering. And anyways, I I've spent thousands of pounds, so I'll bloody tamper all I like thank you!
I got 10,875km with my Trek Rail gen4 750watt ( 170mm front & rear ) in 1year , when you use the right gear ( above 85 pedal frequency then it's a 4Stroke 😂 , the power keeps coming up to 110 pedal frequency .I'm looking forward to the Trek Rail gen 5 I ordered .
@@SamsBikes Hello Sam , Today received the Trek rail 9.5 gen 5 Alloy I took the Gen 5 for a ride . I find a very linear power , the Motor noise is good as gone . .Greetings
Its simple really, the shimano motors just suck. Brakes drivetrains all their other stuff is fine. The motor is lack luster and they break. I think a fair bit of these companies and consumers are just over them
I'll NEVER buy Bosch again. I had to walk home after a 12 hour shift because of their stupid "Gimp Mode"! I 8 fkn miles too. When I've shelled out 4K I don't expect to be fkd around like that frankly.
8 new ebikes agian in 2025... yes the market is still going nuts. which is your favourite Ebike out of this bunch?
Your Kenevo ;)
Pivot and Merida e180
Pivot Shuttle LT + Rocky Mountain Instinct Powerplay SL
Pivot. Frame and bearings will be very durable vs Mondraker whose bearings disintegrate within 1 season
Hello Sam do you get any bikes with the Polini motor in? 90Nm fully serviceable a great motor.
I don't see why more bike manufacturers aren't fitting them in their bikes !
Great review. Everyone is going nuts for the AMFLOW at the moment. There’s a bike shop near me where the owner has 26 units on preorder. He’s tested one himself and says it’s a total game changer. Should be interesting to see how it stacks up against all these bikes on test here!
Thanks for sharing yep its a pretty special bike
Wait for a major brand to implement this system. Not looking to be an early adopter only to find that the bike sits because of repairs, recalls, ect. Bigger brands will do their homework and provide a better overall experience.
I've been away from bikes for about 30 years now. I purchased a bike about 2 weeks ago and realized I'm too old and out of shape for this thing. I just ordered a Husqvarna mc2 and can't wait on it to get here. It wasn't the bike I wanted but for 3000 US I think it's the best deal out there. I just found your channel and I love it 👍
Hey Sam. RACE motor is way more powerfull than new CX Performance ( Some say it is not GEN 5...it is CX Performance BDU38 in Bosch nomenclature ) You forgot 400% assist on Race model vs new model´s 340%. Race also gives the rider better power boost, just when it is needed the most. At the new model Bosch advertises, that they have reinterpreted the sensor signals collected from inertial sensors, cadence sensors, and speed sensors, but we will see...Because the RACE motor got it's software also completely new ( vs regular CX4), it is lighter, I have read it has titanium housing (?) and it is specially designed for eMTB racing, the riding mode impresses with energetic direct support. S, at this zime, I would choose RACE model. But if Race will not get any new possible updates, then.... Anywy, thx again for presentation of the bikes, you did it awsome, like we expect you to.
Thanks mate for the extra information, I really like the Race motor I think more than the Gen5 but I need to spend more time in the gen5
In paper, yeah the Race is. I have that motor and really like it. But the new CX is much more refined. The gentle touch you get from it makes climbing even the slippiest terrain possible. I've ridden it stock, and not dialled in to suit my preferences yet - but it's very different. I think the CX might be able to trump the Race on steeper terrain - but need to try some head to head stuff.
@DoddyMTBtech Doddy thanks for your input mate, yep very different motors but great in their own way. I did a hill climb test and they are about the same over 40 seconds but the Gen5 felt slower probably because it’s more controlled.
You are getting close to 50K subscribers Sam! You are definitely doing things right and people are watching!
Thanks Rick
I’m warranty replacing my Crestline gen 4 CX race after 550 miles.so yeah I’m down for a newer quieter more reliable motor.Race mode is fun but not absolutely necessary for most riders and at 400% assist,in my experience with it I’m sure puts that much extra stress on the older design.
The CX gen 5 (newer build),as most are predicting,will have power updates and refinements in the not too distant future.so it’s a win for me. I have a newer Bosch 5 Crestline S180 coming in dec.
Stoked.
Wow after only 500km that’s not great!
Maybe 250 of those miles used “race mode”
Hey Sam, great to see the channel grow, you are always one of my first stops when it comes to new e-bikes etc 👏 yeah I think Shimano are in a bit of a sticky station unless they have a Ace up their sleeves they may actually consider pulling out of the motor game as what big brands still us them 🤷♂️ the market has so many options and is so competitive now bike manufacturers are spoilt for choice for their bikes and the industry does not carry any dead weight.
I’ve got the Pivot SL . Which I love …
Amflo next !! Easy choice.
Nice call!
Giant Reign E+0…….. Amflo next. 👍
Pivot went with the race because they wanted big battery and the new 800wh battery takes more space in the downtube, meaning it has got more volume and they should make a bigger downtube.On the other hand, Crestline went with the new motor, since the new 800wh battery fits wihout a problem on their existing frame.So, to complete the stable of new bikes in 2025 we should also wait the upcoming 2025 Levo, the new Bullit probably with a Bosch, as well as a longer travel Amflow. Moustache is coming up with a Pinion belt driven enduro this spring and finally Deviate announced entering emtb with a 170/170 or 180 high pivot bike, which will be the equivalent to the Claymore. Cheers!
All good points
The Orbea Wild has the new Gen 5 motor and offers the older 750 Wh battery as an option, so I'm not sure why Pivot went with the older motor...
Deviate EEb sounds really promising !
@@ironlee007 Because they didn't want to change the downtube, since the new 800wh battery is bigger in diameter
@@Mvees Yes
Pivot are boutique but also can be a bit shit, had a Mach 6 from them. The xx1 11 speed didnt fit inside the rear axle without a little metal spacer they sent in the mail after complaining, the cable routing was terrible and rubbed holes in peoples seat stays, sizing / geo out to lunch. My point is being “Boutique \ expensive” means often less testing prior to delivery to customers.
Thanks for sharing
Out here in Arizona where Pivot has its home offices- there are 2 types of Pivot riders.
One is the bike shop employees and all their bros. Plus the racers who get 30-40% off retail.
The other type are the bros that live up on the hill- and can afford 4 or 5 different bikes for different days/moods.And everyone of those bikes has 5k in upgrades. Do the math- 10-15 usd into 4 or 5 different bikes.
That’s just my observations 😁
I bought a shuttle LT with the race motor for under $8k. Still expensive but less than the competing models like the Vala etc. Love the bike so far.
You should try and get a factory tour video at mondraker with Doddy as its only in Elche. Take a trip to the coast
That would be cool!
@@SamsBikes it would be a pleasure to show you round, and get a pedal in!
Nothing from Cannondale then? Always thought their Montera SL 1 was still in the pack especially on weight to performance.
Another great video, Thanks Sam, That Pivot looks stunning, best looking EMTB I’ve ever seen.
Hey Sam, can you take a look at the spider clutch (crank freewheel) when you get a test Rocky SL to see if it's different from the full power bikes version? I'm hoping they improved the sealing of the bearings because they take a lot of looking after to keep them in good condition at the moment, especially in winter slop. Thanks!
I feel that all those bikes still can't compare to Levo, where the battery is closer to the motor (Bosch big batts are way more forward and higher) - better handling and easily removable/swappable.
Im just interested in the new Trek rail.I own gen 4 high end rail. Kinda want to see what the new one will be like.
Yes I’m interested in the Trek as well!
That Kenevo looks badass
Thanks 🙏 yep it’s my baby
Shimano had released this week the new upgraded app to refine the motor. Canyon also still have Shimano
I actually like the Shimano ep801 alot and yes sure lots of companies still use them
@SamsBikes if shimano was to "stop producing" ebike motor, they weren't spending time in upgrading the app and motor, for me the reason is for the European brands is less expensive to buy bosch instead of shimano. Nowadays there is a lotof bikes to choose, just need to have big pockets
I guess the diffrent between Gen 4 race and the Gen 5, is that the Gen 4 race is more power full and requires a really technical rider to handle.
The Gen 5 is not som aggressive and are more easily to handling.
Common People wants to have much power, but the people that's race wants to have a "smart" enging with many sensors that makes the engine to climber with a good grip😁.
For me, I think it's sad that the technology taking over the funny parts of cycling Emtb's, like ABS, electric suspension, automatic gearbox.......or 😅
good points... but more power is pretty fun haha
Interesting that Cotic… but I have something with the SLs, the new Merida looks awesome, the RM is gonna be a blast for sure, but man, that Kenevo is mental.
Yep 👍 I’m keen on both the Rocky and Merida!
Loving the content as usual you're kenevo sl2 build is the sexiest bike I've ever seen 👍💯 would take that over any new bike including the DJI Amflow 😊
Thanks Stephen yep the KSL is such a beast
Bosch gen 4 3 point motor mounting, gen 5, 2 point mounting. Mechanically speaking 3 mounting points is better than 2.
Interesting point but you have seen the gen4 has wigs that actually mount to the motor which seems to be a weak point
Any feedback from Magura on the paint job?
Haha yes they loved it they sent me a shit loads of spare pads and fresh set of MT7 for my next build!
👍Nice build Kenevo SL, witch was the most Interesting bike in your menu😄
Thanks 😁 I love all my ebikes
Haven’t tested the G5 Bosch yet but def know full size ebikerS coming into the market are STILL hecklers lol They still think it’s cool to mob uphill super faster with no attention to battery capacity or sound. Totally different animal than us SL ebikerS.. btw that one off SL Kenivo looks siiick boi!! 🤩
Great video. Can you tell me what knee pads you wear please (saw them in other vids)?
Thanks mate, I use ION knee pads but not so happy with them I’m looking to buy a new set!
I tried the new Bosch gen 5 and race. Race gives you slot more smiles hands down
I am wandering. Where is Giant in between all these competitors? Its the only big manufacturer left so much behind in the competition.
What do you say Sam?
Hey Rider your right... i'm sure they are coming with a big bang soon.
Long time Sam, was considering EP801, but now will think twice. And love your comparison with two strokes, you know what you talking about :)
Haha yes 🙌 mate the Bosch Race is a two stroke wide open! Hahaha
For me, the EP801 with the new race firmware is better than the Gen4 Bosch CX (non race)..... Potentially the Moterra SL being lighter than most other full power bikes plays a part, but I need not have worried. It's a flyer.
@@PazzaAE86 Totally agree Moterra SL is a great bike, little bit on a pricy side, but definately a great option
@@SamsBikes HaHa love it :D Imagine they used to have a 500cc two stroke championship in MotoGP not so long ago, which is pure insanity. And Valentino Rossi was the last champ of that class, if I remeber correctly. Anyway I need to try that Bosch race motor ;)
Surprised there's been no ZF CentriX based bike announcement from any of the major intentional brands.. 🤔
The Raymon Tarok looks like a good bike, though a very Europe focused brand.
Good evening Sam, congratulations on the Kenevo SL. I also have the same bike, I like the idea of the DH38 fork. I would like to ask you a question, what travel does the fork have?
Many thanks
Hey mate thanks for the kind words! The Kenevo is 180-170 mullets and it’s riding really well
@@SamsBikes Sorry for the question, how did you make it a mullet? What component did you change. Thanks in advance
@@salvolove9352 I’m just riding the Kenevo in the High flip chip setting and 155mm cranks
@@SamsBikes OK grazie
Watch Merida Range extender still waiting for one for my E160 675 been 9 months and counting.
thanks for sharing
The past is not always a lesser state .
What’s up with no mention of the new decoy SN?
Only thing I'm replacing my gen 3 levo with is the gen 4 levo! Any news of that Sam?
And yes, I think Shimano are struggling in the ebike space, and from what I hear of their warranty service they totally deserve to. Some shocking stories and many of them.
I’m hearing you! Yep there have been some whispers but nothing concrete yet!
I feel Shimano have finally got the motor working really well but it seems a lot of brands are moving on.
What about new cube bikes?Have you ever tested it?
I have not test them but I really should
@ I would like to buy the stereo one 44, I think Cube has a good quality/price ratio
@andrea Yes and they are assembled IN germany or were a few years ago and the service network is huge in Germany .
i have an older cube with the 75 Nm CX . it shut down on my second ride . i took it to the shop and they fixed it in 30 seconds . it was a software issue .
You should compare side by side cx5 vs race. So the crystals gen, rattle sound is the least you should worry about.
I don’t have the race motor anymore! But it’s a good idea
Love it Sam, hey is a 38 suitable in the super light range of e-bikes ? or 36 standard
How long travel has fork on your new kanevo?
180mm-170mm mullet
I’ve heard there will be a firmware update for the Gen5 which will increase the torque and power
Why orbea rise did not made the list?
Hi Sam, Did you hear about new Brose using no belt anymore?
Belt is gone due to the increased torque
Yep the Belt is gone in the new Brose
I have Maura mt5 brakes can I put a hc3 lever on them I know you don’t have to respond but I would like answer from someone who loves Maura brakes.thank you
Have you checked out the new cube bikes ?
Yep they look good
Please ask them nicely 59 send you the new one 77 and do a review 👍 At £4500 for the slx it's killer value @@SamsBikes
Excellent Sam
Thanks Rider
Wow the new Merida look nice
I know right...
Shimano is well known for their slow development pace and long product lifecycles. Some people like this approach, but looks like it might not work in their favor with ebike systems.
Yeap, greats bikes with new tech, lame on Yeti 160e, specialized kenevo sl, turbo levo. Prob they are having a hard time on their stock.
Yep great times
Thank you, LEGEND!
Right back at you Legend!
since SRAM came with 12spd Eagle shimano couldn't keep pace with industry
This is true..
Oof.. that Cotic Rocket is not a pretty bike. Looks like my neighbor bolted a battery to his MTB
hahah maybe I think it looks cool
That's a solid pass on the external battery
Super glad to see Shimano kicked to the curb.
lets see... its just my thoughts
I would love for Shimano to come out with a MGU in 2025.....if they don't, they're missing a trick......Come On Shimano get ahead of the curve.
Does any other motor manufacturer impose "Gimp Mode" on their supposedly valuable customers?
I am spitting feathers about this bullsht!
If I spend 4K+, it's up to me what I choose to do with my purchase, so WTF gives Bosch the right to mess their customers around?!
Who the fk do they think they are, the freekin Police or something?!
And BTW, "Gimp Mode" and quite often happens randomly, not just because of tampering. And anyways, I I've spent thousands of pounds, so I'll bloody tamper all I like thank you!
I got 10,875km with my Trek Rail gen4 750watt ( 170mm front & rear ) in 1year , when you use the right gear ( above 85 pedal frequency then it's a 4Stroke 😂 , the power keeps coming up to 110 pedal frequency .I'm looking forward to the Trek Rail gen 5 I ordered .
That’s a pretty decent effort! Yep o interest to see the new Trek as well!
@@SamsBikes Hello Sam , Today received the Trek rail 9.5 gen 5 Alloy I took the Gen 5 for a ride . I find a very linear power , the Motor noise is good as gone . .Greetings
I thought everyone agreed to stop calling the "new" Bosch "Gen 5".
Haha I feel this is a bit of a joke, it’s different to the gen 4 in many ways so it my book it’s a Gen 5
Cotic owners wanted an ebike, they just didn't want that ugly, expensive thing and to top it off its got a shimano motor 😂. Not one will be sold.
I agree, it's ridiculous. They should be ashamed, not proud, of it.
interesting stuff Sam. that pivot bike looks fab
Thanks 🙏 yep I love that Pivot
@@SamsBikes No one needs a157mm rear.....
Hi Sir..
Are you looking for a professional TH-cam thumbnail designer?
Let me know please
Thanks
Yes can you send me a Instagram PM
Its simple really, the shimano motors just suck. Brakes drivetrains all their other stuff is fine. The motor is lack luster and they break. I think a fair bit of these companies and consumers are just over them
I'll NEVER buy Bosch again.
I had to walk home after a 12 hour shift because of their stupid "Gimp Mode"! I 8 fkn miles too.
When I've shelled out 4K I don't expect to be fkd around like that frankly.
Put it in American dollars nobody knows what you're talking about 🇺🇸
Pretty sure we do know what he's talking about. The world doesn't revolve around USD$. Use a currency converter if your confused 😉
Put it in American dollars America does not know what you are talking about 🇺🇸
Takes 1 minute to ask Google to do the math conversion for you.
Shimano motors sucks!
I would rather take a chipped Shimano over a 25km/h Bosch
@ Shimano motors sucks!
@rod2emmaus I agree but going slow sucks more
They all sound the same and cost the same. Who cares? $7000 for an indistinguishable bike the difference is 1cm of travel. Yawn.
Could be looking at the wrong channel Legend
BOSH motor is a shit