UDPATE: I've started collecting more data on muzzles for a future video (not coming anytime soon since it will take a ton of time to test everything and put it all together) and I wanted to point out that with a larger sample size (10 plots per muzzle), I'm seeing the same trends as in this video for the few muzzles that I've made it through so far on the M4. So for those that are understandably concerned about the small sample size in this video, I'm still seeing clear and consistent differences with a larger sample size and I'm very confident now that these do not have identical values.
The Sakin Tread is a close 2nd in horizontal recoil, and 1st in vertical, and could easily jump to 1st in both given the randomness of recoil patterns, so that’s my choice I’m gonna rock it always
After watching for years I have been doing novice testing myself. You may be aware of this already, but I have noticed in this game anyway that gun sway/Bob greatly affects the recoil plot of the M014 Battle rifle (I think it is called) in full auto. I have found the choosing aiming stability and idle stability greatly increase the ease of handling a weapon in full auto and smooths the horizontal deviations while firing. You might want to look into this.
should have added m4s base ads time with the muzzle attachment page or just ad like a (+50ms) to the base speed for all of them, its been a month since m4 video came out and you probably had that on a spread sheet
PLEASE! Pursue Underbarrel testing! It’ll help a lot to debunk the differences in the stat bar, and it’ll also shed some clarity on weather the Pinapple is worth using over one of the commando style foregrips
I've done quite a bit on my own, the pineapple gives a greater reduction in total recoil magnitude than all the other vertical foregrips (except the Bruen warrior, despite having a lower stat bar), but does very little with horizontal recoil unlike thr merc foregrip and the horizontal style grips. Since that vertical recoil is the easiest to manage, the horizontal ones will probably make a greater impact on your accuracy. As a side note, the Bruen warrior not only reduces total recoil more, but also reduces horizontal recoil, almost as much as the FTAC ripper, making it imo the best bet for most builds.
According to Ace, the best vertical grip is the Pineapple, it helps with general recoil control and the best horziontal grip is the Phase 3 which helps with horizontal recoil.
This is exactly why we need exact stats listed, like you mentioned. So dumb IW decided to allow us to go this in-depth with attachments and tuning, but no stats to see how effective things are
It’s mind blowing that they would allow us to put so much work into fine tuning our playstyle without actually quantifying the MOST IMPORTANT information needed to make these decisions.
can you please make a video debunking the “Find A Party” preferences? People keep pushing that if you change your preferences to ‘casual’ that it will “turn off” SBMM and only place you with casuals. The Find A Party menu doesn’t even work properly as it doesn’t search at all, people are just saying once you change this setting and search for a normal match that it’ll place you in lobbies with players with “casual stats”.
@@tobenamed9424 They just respond with “Find A Party means it’ll search for your teammates and they will be casuals therefore your opponents will be equally as skilled” not realizing players have been complaining for years that when paired up in a party COD only takes the top players stats and not an average when searching for a lobby.
I definitely was sitting in the middle of it all really wondering if they would just be duplicates or have slight variations. This just makes it even weirder that they will not show us the advanced stats.
@@AgxntAqua it's not to keep casuals playing, it's to cause more conversation around what people think are the best attachments, so people can't min max, like you had said
@@Devious.official definitely a bonus for them to have all these streamers making loadout videos and shorts but they do that whenever anything new comes to the game anyways. Casuals don't like to get clapped by better players all using the same load out. They crave the variety as much or more then they do the competition. I think the ambiguity makes low information players feel like more guns are viable. I had a buddy tell me the m16 was good the other day, he had no idea.
@@AgxntAqua I do agree with you there, everyone's lost, my dad thinks the rpk is overpowered, but it definitely doesn't happen anyway, cold War barely got any gun guides mostly cus people kinda knew what everything did
If I might make a suggestion for the follow-up video. Perhaps use the averaged values collected to make new boxes overlaid on top of one another, and filled in with a different color , just to make the differences more readily apparent at a glance
This is so frustrating. The fact that there are differences between these attachments but that the game does not give you any of this information is such horrible design. Why make all these different 'choices' but not give us actually helpful information for us to base our decision making on? As appreciated as this is, this video is a prime example of content that shouldn't even need to exist, the game should have all of this in there already. Otherwise, what was the point of having all of these options? Did they just want to mess with us?
I’m honestly not surprised that so many muzzles have the same pros and cons yet noticeable changes it’s most definitely gonna be the same thing with grips and I don’t doubt this is done to make it harder for people to make consistently good setups and figure out the system, personally I doubt they’ll make in depth stats because it’d pull the curtain on how they want to hide the real data and facts from players so we can’t maximize our setups
It's very thoughtful of IW to give us several (what appear to be) identical attachments with slightly different coded values and then make it very difficult for us to understand the differences. I now look back can really appreciate the limited choice in MW2019 as each attachment was quite different and you knew exactly where you stood with regard to the pros and cons of each. It made building a weapon a much easier process. Keep up the good work Ace and keep it coming, you are our savior!
Definitely not surprised. I knew there had to be a reason for SO many different similar attachments. I would love to see videos diving more deeply into this area. Also, I wonder if the attachments affect different weapons in the same class differently?
Thanks for all of the effort you put into this, Ace! I know it's got to be incredibly time-consuming, but your work makes understanding multiplayer so much easier for so many players!
Thanks so much for making this one! I've struggled to pick between these things for weeks now. I have OCD and when given 3-4 choices that all seem almost identical, it's difficult for my brain to settle and pick one. I absolutely would love the more detailed breakdown on this stuff. I knew Infinity Ward would end up doing this, because they did in MW 2019 also. Just one more reason why I held Cold War in such high regard. Thanks, Ace. You're a hero.
I love your channel for the mathematical take on different customization options in MWII. I'd very much enjoy seeing more of this content, especially so with increased sample sizes and comparing barrel attachments across different guns
i bet if we banded together as a community we could get more replicates to help get data for you ace - love the content. super excited to see future data you got for us! i was very surprised that different muzzles had different stat changes.
Yeah a Discord or reddit where we can all post screenshots of different recoil plots. just need to choose a Map and an easy to replicate position. We could generate a ton of Data for him :)
Unfortunately, I have a hard time trusting crowdsourced data since people could easily mess with things either intentionally or unintentionally with improper/imprecise testing. I'd trust people with a proven track record like TGD but not random people.
@@TheXclusiveAce Expanding on that point i wonder if you could use like Microsoft Teams or Google hangouts or somthing to setup an Easy "Data Sharing" portal for yourself and other trust worthy data sources like TGD :) then again not sure if it'd even help with anything?
Read the discription of the attachments, one for sustained fire recoil control and the other one for follow up shots and the other one simplen V/H recoil C.
Hey Ace, I think this is some really cool testing. I think that your "box" method is a pretty good idea for a first order testing but I think there is a potential that you could be losing some important data if you are just looking at the displacement maxima of recoil. There are some statistical tests that you can do if you are interested to see if the randomness between patterns is significant or just random variances. I recognize that may be beyond the scope of what you are trying to do with this video series but if you would like to some help with some statistics, would be happy to offer some insights.
Man, nobody else in the community comes close to you in terms of laying out data (or the closest thing we can get to real data) all while making it a concise video. I knew I wasn’t crazy when I did my own brief testing that the RF Crown is a beast for horizontal lol thanks for the confirmation
I'm not really surprised, as I'd like to think the devs wouldn't want to add in duplicate attachments. It does make me wish that we had detailed stats in the game even more now though... It'd be really nice to see exactly what value is changing with each attachment, and what values are changing with tuning.
yes please make more videos regarding this these attachments! i appreciate how in-depth you go with your analyses. def something i have been looking for so i’m glad i came across your channel. gained a new subscriber!
This is interesting but I do not think looking at two metrics for three recoil patterns per attachment provide enough data to be statistically significant. I understand this would be a pain but a better way to do this would be look at the difference in vertical & horizontal from shot to shot. Then store two sets of data per attachment (hor_recoil = [dh1, dh2, ... dhn] & hor_recoil = [dv1, dv2, ... dvm]) and plot histograms or PDF plots of each as well as compare metrics like min / max diff, mean, std.
I really appreciate all the work you're doing. A lot of people might take your research for granted and just use it for their own purposes, but I understand how much work this research entails and applaud you for the consistency and accuracy. Well done.
Ace, can't thank you enough for all of these videos. They've helped me become a better player. When I get on TH-cam, I look forward to seeing the notification that you have a new video.
Description text for some muzzle attachments have actually been more helpful in this regard rather than the stat bars. When a muzzle mentions "good for follow up shots" I use those on low rof weapons and semi auto setups for instance. They seem to benefit from more from those attachments with that description for instance.
@TheXclusiveAce After watching for years I have been doing novice testing myself. You may be aware of this already, but I have noticed in this game anyway that gun sway/Bob greatly affects the recoil plot of the M014 Battle rifle (I think it is called) in full auto. I have found the choosing aiming stability and idle stability greatly increase the ease of handling a weapon in full auto and smooths the horizontal deviations while firing. You might want to look into this.
I've always thought some of these were identical, and given the sakin tread 40 is only 3 pixels more horizontal recoil, but way better vertical, I'm just gonna use that as default
I've been using that as my default muzzle for a bit (unless I need a suppressor). I just tried a bunch out in the firing range and figured which ones I was able to work best with. Not all testing needs to be searching for a meta. Sometimes, an attachment just changes the feel of the recoil enough to be more in your personal wheelhouse than another attachment with "better" stats. I do wish we just had the actual stat data available, though.
So glad you did this. Using the beyond limited info IW gives us when making attachment choices I was curious to know if they were actually different, and they are. Another notch in the belt for IW, when Cold War and even mostly hated vanguard enhance the product, IW regresses.
Great content as usual. Bro you are definitely the greatest CoD nerd of all time a.k.a. CoD NERD GOD or just NoD for short, like they need to hire you and make you dev #3001. Lol but all jokes aside the advanced stats and analytics you provide are invaluable in my opinion, and activity influence my weapons and style of play. Keep up the great work and never get discouraged because we really really appreciate this shit a lot. Thanks Ace.
There are a number of attachments that for some reason share the same name / the same description / the same stats but they're locked to specific weapons. For example, we have five different STIP-40 grips (one for STB-556 & MX9, one for PDSW 528, one for RAAL MG, one for Victus XMR and one with different stats for HCR 56 & Sakin MG38). Also there are four different Bruen G305 Grip Wraps (three identical and one with different stats), three Bruen Q900 Grips (all with the same stats), two Bruen Q900 Grip Wraps, two FTAC Castle Comps, two Lockshot KT85 and some more attachments (not counting magazines with the same name but they're essentially totally different attachments).
It’s good that your info is across multiplayer and warzone again. I think TGD found that attachments are not the same across many weapons, including same class. That video would be a beast and I welcome it with open arms.
To further reduce variables in testing, I would suggest to stack as many aiming stability attachments as possible. This way you get a more "pure" look at exactly how much recoil is affected when you remove the noise of idle sway.
One thing to bare in mind, the recoil patterns do roughly fit a pattern. 1 in every 4/5 mag drops will be a wildly different recoil pattern. So best to do more than 3
I can’t imagine going through all attachments. You are awesome for breaking that down for everyone. There’s no way there shouldn’t be advanced stats with all the different set ups
Man, you really do a great job getting all these data for us, thank you! I wish the devs would help you out with those advanced statistics, even tho I doubt it, hope dies last. Keep up the good work!
I agree on testing these muzzles on all the other weapons. It may be the case where the M4's recoil pairs well with the RF Crown, but it may not be the same for say the 74U, due to the 74U having a different base recoil pattern. It's so much testing to be done if anything.
Looking very much forward to the new c'deep dive vids, good luck Ace. I too have noticed the shakin thread helps most, also helps with gun shake more I feel. Turns the rpk into an absolute beam.
I will 100 percent like to see more content surrounding this, because I'm pretty certain I've seen noticable differences in muzzle and underbarrel attachments that appear to look identical in the game. I will also go as far as saying that there seems to be a few reflex optics that are more accurate than others even though they have the same magnification, and was tested on the same gun with every other attachment being the same.
Glad to see we have at least one COD content creating actually doing something original and useful and not regurgitating the same crap as everyone else. Nice video. !
In my personal experience, combing the Phase 3 grip (according to Ace, its the best horizontal recoil dampener grip) and the solely vertical recoil dampener muzzle for the particular weapon gets probably the best results. Such muzzles for most ARs and some LMGs is the XTen Ported 290 and for SMGs its the XRK Sandstorm.
Thanks this is kind of what my comment on your latest post was about, please go into this in detail you’re the only streamer we can trust to really run the tests
I would love to see more in depth stuff you are far and away my favorite cod creator because of the way you lay everything out and because of your consistency. We need a cheat sheet or infographic of all of your recommended loadouts and attachments etc.
For your red rectangles could you say add a green vertical line down the middle then for every pixel a shot is away from that line add a numerical value and add them all up. The higher the number the worse the attach using a average over how many rectangles you have based on the shots in the wall you do ?
i went into firing range and just quickly tested myself to see which one helped and had been using the same 2 you concluded so im glad my eyes can still spot the diff in my own play
Yes please make as many videos about this as need be. This is something I immediately noticed when leveling up guns and it’s beyond frustrating and confusing as to which ones I should or shouldn’t be using
I get that - but is it so bad to play around with them yourself and find setups you genuinely like? Does everything have to revolve around a TH-cam video of “the best”? - the best spots - the best guns - the best attachments - the best perks and on and on. Once we have “the best” out there, its all anyone that knows about it will be using.
5:20 something I noticed about the Cronen OP44 in those pictures is that it seems to be less sporadic than the fulcrum despite it having more pixels in the width, I might prefer tighter groupings over more sporadic if not tighter recoil. Though I probably would go with the other attachments like the sakin or crown
I already suspected this was the case, just from my own experience playing with the gunsmith and firing range. What I'd be really curious to know is, on top of the little differences between similar mods, do they also have differences in how much their values can be tuned?
they do, for example the xten muzzle brake on the AKs can be tuned 100% towards recoil stabilization with almost no impact on ADS, no other muzzle can do that
2:24 IMO I always look at the "bullets to kill" in a recoil plot +2ish bullets. b/c I consider those first shots the "most important" (for most 'normal' guns). So the RF Crown looks super juicy on those first 6-7 bullets. EDIT: AGAIN ACE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING ALL THIS TESTING FOR THE COMMUNITY!
Yes, very interested in seeing an underbarrel comparison video that would be incredible. Really hope they add advanced stats eventually though. Also, +50 MS ADS speed for just a muzzle?! Come on IW, should be one frame at 60fps max, like 16-20ms.
I could understand that kind of delay for the suppressors because a full auto rated can is like a pound but even the Surefire Warden (I dunno the in game name) isn't heavy enough to meaningfully increase ADS time.
It has, as I never trust the bars & go into the training area. It's amazing how much two identically looking attachment stat wise differ from one another. The Laachman 762 taught me this a noob well recently. Now I see it becoming mainstream.
Hey Ace thanks for this, for a few weeks now I’ve been questioning whether I was just loosing the plot or if they really did have what appears to be multiples of duplicate attachments that had near identical stat values. But I swore they definitely played out differently but you made it seem like I’m actually still sane
So, they might have some differences, but be so close it's basically negligible. However, they may have different min max values and effects when tuning. So basically not any stock differences, but perhaps they have different values when tuning compared to each other.
You also could check if the tunning diamond is the same size. I have an impression there are differences there, especially how much tunning changes each diamond, hexagon, I don’t know how to call it lol.
At this point I think even IW themselves doesn't have readable numerical stats for a functioning advanced stat. Since they have this universal weapon platform system for universal attachments, they might have created a modifier for those attachments which based on the original weapon's performance. I suppose every weapon in MW2022 has a base stat that IW can work on, and they can work on weapon specific attachments like range related barrels, but there is a RNG stat generator involved that makes the weapon to randomize recoils etc. within the limited spectrum especially when universal attachments are involved, so that you will get a general recoil pattern but it is different in detail. If this is the case, I think that the least thing they can do is to provide the static based stat and the static percentage for each attachment's modifiers.
Across all attachments. The way in which the pros are listed from.top to bottom/ first to last essentially let's u know what attributes are more focused on/prioritized. I.E. the lachmann foregerip is the best foregerip for vertical recoil control as all the fore grips list hip fire accuracy first. However the lachmann foregerip specifically is the only one that has recoil steadiness second. And aim walking steadiness third. Whereas the merc foregerip like all list hip fire accuracy first aim walking steadiness second recoil steadiness third and lastly hip fire control. It is important to note that any foregerip that list hip fire control last(it will always be last) will have a slightly higher stat bar reading beside the recoil stat. However that is only due to it reducing the hip fire recoil. And that sight increase in recoil control you'll see on the stat bar on the merc foregerip and the like is not actually in reference in vertical recoil. Thus making the lachmann foregerip the best for vertical recoil. In a similar fashion when it comes to muzzle attachments. Whenever you see horizontal recoil listed first above vertical. That indicates that the horizontal recoil reduction is prioritized (slightly in most cases) over vertical recoil reduction. Lastly. The description of the attachments or the most part are accurate in telling what is specifically prioritized. It really comes down to proper individual interpretation when reading.
good job testing that, indeed a bit surprising, would appreciate more in depth analysis, albeit, only if it could be done without significant delays to the gun guide series
I've always wondered. Like some attachments just change the order and presumed effect on the weapon but have the same effect. Like the silencers that improve bullet velocity and damage range
I assumed the diff attachments would have diff effects and It absolutely affects my choices so this game is driving my ocd crazy. Lol. Thank you for all you do
Finally Aces channel is growing after months of stagnation! Let's get Ace to one million to show appreciation for all the work he does for this community! Share this channel with friends and family.
Fantastic Work Ace. And very interesting. I will for sure watch any future videos like these you make. Too bad though that you have to do this kind of work an they won't just give us the exact stats.
I think it’s having one certain stat but just adding it to different models to match whatever aesthetic you’re going for, or which model looks best for you. If that makes any sense.
I did some testing with different grips and muzzle attachments on the BAS-P and found that the RF Crown had the best recoil plot there too. the XRK sandstorm also really significantly reduces vertical recoil but I don't know if it stacks, in combinatory comparisons it seemed like you get diminishing returns for combining recoil reducing attachments.
THIS IS THE SHIT I LOVE TO SEE. Love when you did videos on this stuff. I've also decided to do some hand testing myself. I'm tired of not knowing or understanding optimal loadout stuff. THIS is why i loved Cold War. Yes, their gun system was so perfect, but god was it accurate and just made sense and wasnt a mystery!
Nice, glad you're putting in the time to get solid data for the player base. Can't wait to see the various grips and how they stack up, though I'm a little curious about something specific. The MK18 barrel for the M4, the H4-T or whatever they call it, seems to reduce recoil a bit. It's stated to help with hip recoil control, I'm wondering if that basically translates to aimed recoil as well, and if that could be tested in regards to tuning vertical grips for that. Another thing about tuning, there's a few grips that allow you to help with ADS speed, even some that don't have ADS listed as a con for them. Be interesting to know if one could cancel out the ADS penalty on an attachment, or increase ads speed with a grip like the TV wrecker or sharkfin.
I always use a suppressor, even though they don't even function properly in this game - I appreciate the quieter shooting, and I feel that it helps reduce the smoke from the barrel too.
UDPATE: I've started collecting more data on muzzles for a future video (not coming anytime soon since it will take a ton of time to test everything and put it all together) and I wanted to point out that with a larger sample size (10 plots per muzzle), I'm seeing the same trends as in this video for the few muzzles that I've made it through so far on the M4. So for those that are understandably concerned about the small sample size in this video, I'm still seeing clear and consistent differences with a larger sample size and I'm very confident now that these do not have identical values.
It's so over
The Sakin Tread is a close 2nd in horizontal recoil, and 1st in vertical, and could easily jump to 1st in both given the randomness of recoil patterns, so that’s my choice I’m gonna rock it always
don't forget to pin this
After watching for years I have been doing novice testing myself. You may be aware of this already, but I have noticed in this game anyway that gun sway/Bob greatly affects the recoil plot of the M014 Battle rifle (I think it is called) in full auto. I have found the choosing aiming stability and idle stability greatly increase the ease of handling a weapon in full auto and smooths the horizontal deviations while firing. You might want to look into this.
should have added m4s base ads time with the muzzle attachment page or just ad like a (+50ms) to the base speed for all of them, its been a month since m4 video came out and you probably had that on a spread sheet
PLEASE! Pursue Underbarrel testing!
It’ll help a lot to debunk the differences in the stat bar, and it’ll also shed some clarity on weather the Pinapple is worth using over one of the commando style foregrips
I've done quite a bit on my own, the pineapple gives a greater reduction in total recoil magnitude than all the other vertical foregrips (except the Bruen warrior, despite having a lower stat bar), but does very little with horizontal recoil unlike thr merc foregrip and the horizontal style grips. Since that vertical recoil is the easiest to manage, the horizontal ones will probably make a greater impact on your accuracy. As a side note, the Bruen warrior not only reduces total recoil more, but also reduces horizontal recoil, almost as much as the FTAC ripper, making it imo the best bet for most builds.
According to Ace, the best vertical grip is the Pineapple, it helps with general recoil control and the best horziontal grip is the Phase 3 which helps with horizontal recoil.
Yeah, I definitely need some clarification despite some obvious choices - I’m so torn between the FTAC Ripper and Phase 3 underbarrels right now
@@haxor7372 Ace has perviously said that the Phase 3 is the best horizontal grip in another video about attachments
According to TrueGameData the Pineapple is best for overall recoil reduction.
This is exactly why we need exact stats listed, like you mentioned. So dumb IW decided to allow us to go this in-depth with attachments and tuning, but no stats to see how effective things are
It’s mind blowing that they would allow us to put so much work into fine tuning our playstyle without actually quantifying the MOST IMPORTANT information needed to make these decisions.
My guess is to sell those fine tuned blueprints
@@MohamedEldaw except they don't tell us how tuned they are
@@DekuSkrub2129 b-but they are certified "pro-tuned"?!
it's what you get for min-maxing everything and running the same build every game. IW decides to just randomize everything.
This man’s attention to detail and dedication is unmatched. Your work is much appreciated my guy
can you please make a video debunking the “Find A Party” preferences? People keep pushing that if you change your preferences to ‘casual’ that it will “turn off” SBMM and only place you with casuals. The Find A Party menu doesn’t even work properly as it doesn’t search at all, people are just saying once you change this setting and search for a normal match that it’ll place you in lobbies with players with “casual stats”.
Man I think people really misunderstand what the find a party feature is hahah
@@tobenamed9424 They just respond with “Find A Party means it’ll search for your teammates and they will be casuals therefore your opponents will be equally as skilled” not realizing players have been complaining for years that when paired up in a party COD only takes the top players stats and not an average when searching for a lobby.
Doesn’t even allow me to find a party 🤣
Yeah I think that would be a great debunk vid tbh
It works. I changed it to casual and dropped double gunships the very next game.
I definitely was sitting in the middle of it all really wondering if they would just be duplicates or have slight variations.
This just makes it even weirder that they will not show us the advanced stats.
They don't want us to be able to min-max guns easily, everything they do is pretty much to keep casual players on the game
@@AgxntAqua it's not to keep casuals playing, it's to cause more conversation around what people think are the best attachments, so people can't min max, like you had said
@@Devious.official definitely a bonus for them to have all these streamers making loadout videos and shorts but they do that whenever anything new comes to the game anyways. Casuals don't like to get clapped by better players all using the same load out. They crave the variety as much or more then they do the competition. I think the ambiguity makes low information players feel like more guns are viable. I had a buddy tell me the m16 was good the other day, he had no idea.
@@AgxntAqua I do agree with you there, everyone's lost, my dad thinks the rpk is overpowered, but it definitely doesn't happen anyway, cold War barely got any gun guides mostly cus people kinda knew what everything did
Please do detailed muzzle and underbarrel recoil tests as you alluded to. THANK YOU ACE!
If I might make a suggestion for the follow-up video. Perhaps use the averaged values collected to make new boxes overlaid on top of one another, and filled in with a different color , just to make the differences more readily apparent at a glance
This is so frustrating. The fact that there are differences between these attachments but that the game does not give you any of this information is such horrible design. Why make all these different 'choices' but not give us actually helpful information for us to base our decision making on? As appreciated as this is, this video is a prime example of content that shouldn't even need to exist, the game should have all of this in there already. Otherwise, what was the point of having all of these options? Did they just want to mess with us?
I’m honestly not surprised that so many muzzles have the same pros and cons yet noticeable changes it’s most definitely gonna be the same thing with grips and I don’t doubt this is done to make it harder for people to make consistently good setups and figure out the system, personally I doubt they’ll make in depth stats because it’d pull the curtain on how they want to hide the real data and facts from players so we can’t maximize our setups
I would LOVE to see larger sample sizes and more thorough testing of nearly identical attachments across different weapon categories. Thanks Ace!
It's very thoughtful of IW to give us several (what appear to be) identical attachments with slightly different coded values and then make it very difficult for us to understand the differences.
I now look back can really appreciate the limited choice in MW2019 as each attachment was quite different and you knew exactly where you stood with regard to the pros and cons of each. It made building a weapon a much easier process.
Keep up the good work Ace and keep it coming, you are our savior!
Definitely not surprised. I knew there had to be a reason for SO many different similar attachments. I would love to see videos diving more deeply into this area. Also, I wonder if the attachments affect different weapons in the same class differently?
Thanks for all of the effort you put into this, Ace! I know it's got to be incredibly time-consuming, but your work makes understanding multiplayer so much easier for so many players!
Thanks so much for making this one! I've struggled to pick between these things for weeks now. I have OCD and when given 3-4 choices that all seem almost identical, it's difficult for my brain to settle and pick one. I absolutely would love the more detailed breakdown on this stuff. I knew Infinity Ward would end up doing this, because they did in MW 2019 also. Just one more reason why I held Cold War in such high regard. Thanks, Ace. You're a hero.
Yes I would love to see further more detailed testing on these "identical" attachments. Nice Work and appreciate the effort you put in as always!
I love your channel for the mathematical take on different customization options in MWII. I'd very much enjoy seeing more of this content, especially so with increased sample sizes and comparing barrel attachments across different guns
i bet if we banded together as a community we could get more replicates to help get data for you ace - love the content.
super excited to see future data you got for us! i was very surprised that different muzzles had different stat changes.
Yeah a Discord or reddit where we can all post screenshots of different recoil plots. just need to choose a Map and an easy to replicate position. We could generate a ton of Data for him :)
Unfortunately, I have a hard time trusting crowdsourced data since people could easily mess with things either intentionally or unintentionally with improper/imprecise testing. I'd trust people with a proven track record like TGD but not random people.
@@TheXclusiveAce thank you for the integrity of science.
@@TheXclusiveAce Expanding on that point i wonder if you could use like Microsoft Teams or Google hangouts or somthing to setup an Easy "Data Sharing" portal for yourself and other trust worthy data sources like TGD :) then again not sure if it'd even help with anything?
Read the discription of the attachments, one for sustained fire recoil control and the other one for follow up shots and the other one simplen V/H recoil C.
Hey Ace, I think this is some really cool testing. I think that your "box" method is a pretty good idea for a first order testing but I think there is a potential that you could be losing some important data if you are just looking at the displacement maxima of recoil. There are some statistical tests that you can do if you are interested to see if the randomness between patterns is significant or just random variances. I recognize that may be beyond the scope of what you are trying to do with this video series but if you would like to some help with some statistics, would be happy to offer some insights.
Man, nobody else in the community comes close to you in terms of laying out data (or the closest thing we can get to real data) all while making it a concise video. I knew I wasn’t crazy when I did my own brief testing that the RF Crown is a beast for horizontal lol thanks for the confirmation
I'm not really surprised, as I'd like to think the devs wouldn't want to add in duplicate attachments. It does make me wish that we had detailed stats in the game even more now though... It'd be really nice to see exactly what value is changing with each attachment, and what values are changing with tuning.
yes please make more videos regarding this these attachments! i appreciate how in-depth you go with your analyses. def something i have been looking for so i’m glad i came across your channel. gained a new subscriber!
This is interesting but I do not think looking at two metrics for three recoil patterns per attachment provide enough data to be statistically significant. I understand this would be a pain but a better way to do this would be look at the difference in vertical & horizontal from shot to shot. Then store two sets of data per attachment (hor_recoil = [dh1, dh2, ... dhn] & hor_recoil = [dv1, dv2, ... dvm]) and plot histograms or PDF plots of each as well as compare metrics like min / max diff, mean, std.
Analysis here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TB-jq2qXOAkkT8k66piWYRNzKgdJgyg3mQZIImpA22k/edit?usp=sharing
I really appreciate all the work you're doing. A lot of people might take your research for granted and just use it for their own purposes, but I understand how much work this research entails and applaud you for the consistency and accuracy. Well done.
Ace, can't thank you enough for all of these videos. They've helped me become a better player. When I get on TH-cam, I look forward to seeing the notification that you have a new video.
Description text for some muzzle attachments have actually been more helpful in this regard rather than the stat bars. When a muzzle mentions "good for follow up shots" I use those on low rof weapons and semi auto setups for instance. They seem to benefit from more from those attachments with that description for instance.
@TheXclusiveAce After watching for years I have been doing novice testing myself. You may be aware of this already, but I have noticed in this game anyway that gun sway/Bob greatly affects the recoil plot of the M014 Battle rifle (I think it is called) in full auto. I have found the choosing aiming stability and idle stability greatly increase the ease of handling a weapon in full auto and smooths the horizontal deviations while firing. You might want to look into this.
More detail the better. Have you noticed suppressors cause more muzzle smoke?
Yup, suppressors with iron sights suck, gotta use an optical
I've always thought some of these were identical, and given the sakin tread 40 is only 3 pixels more horizontal recoil, but way better vertical, I'm just gonna use that as default
I've been using that as my default muzzle for a bit (unless I need a suppressor). I just tried a bunch out in the firing range and figured which ones I was able to work best with.
Not all testing needs to be searching for a meta. Sometimes, an attachment just changes the feel of the recoil enough to be more in your personal wheelhouse than another attachment with "better" stats. I do wish we just had the actual stat data available, though.
He has already said that it is the best general recoil dampener muzzle in a previous video
So glad you did this. Using the beyond limited info IW gives us when making attachment choices I was curious to know if they were actually different, and they are.
Another notch in the belt for IW, when Cold War and even mostly hated vanguard enhance the product, IW regresses.
Great content as usual. Bro you are definitely the greatest CoD nerd of all time a.k.a. CoD NERD GOD or just NoD for short, like they need to hire you and make you dev #3001. Lol but all jokes aside the advanced stats and analytics you provide are invaluable in my opinion, and activity influence my weapons and style of play. Keep up the great work and never get discouraged because we really really appreciate this shit a lot. Thanks Ace.
There are a number of attachments that for some reason share the same name / the same description / the same stats but they're locked to specific weapons. For example, we have five different STIP-40 grips (one for STB-556 & MX9, one for PDSW 528, one for RAAL MG, one for Victus XMR and one with different stats for HCR 56 & Sakin MG38). Also there are four different Bruen G305 Grip Wraps (three identical and one with different stats), three Bruen Q900 Grips (all with the same stats), two Bruen Q900 Grip Wraps, two FTAC Castle Comps, two Lockshot KT85 and some more attachments (not counting magazines with the same name but they're essentially totally different attachments).
@TheXclusiveAce. You are a God-send. That’s a ton of work you’re signing yourself up for! More power to you. We love it.
It’s good that your info is across multiplayer and warzone again. I think TGD found that attachments are not the same across many weapons, including same class. That video would be a beast and I welcome it with open arms.
To further reduce variables in testing, I would suggest to stack as many aiming stability attachments as possible. This way you get a more "pure" look at exactly how much recoil is affected when you remove the noise of idle sway.
One thing to bare in mind, the recoil patterns do roughly fit a pattern. 1 in every 4/5 mag drops will be a wildly different recoil pattern. So best to do more than 3
I can’t imagine going through all attachments. You are awesome for breaking that down for everyone. There’s no way there shouldn’t be advanced stats with all the different set ups
Man, you really do a great job getting all these data for us, thank you!
I wish the devs would help you out with those advanced statistics, even tho I doubt it, hope dies last.
Keep up the good work!
I agree on testing these muzzles on all the other weapons. It may be the case where the M4's recoil pairs well with the RF Crown, but it may not be the same for say the 74U, due to the 74U having a different base recoil pattern.
It's so much testing to be done if anything.
I would love to see this in a series. You're my favorite COD content creator and this is why.
Looking very much forward to the new c'deep dive vids, good luck Ace. I too have noticed the shakin thread helps most, also helps with gun shake more I feel. Turns the rpk into an absolute beam.
Your enthusiasm and creativity when it comes to original Call of Duty content, even after a decade, is fascinating
I will 100 percent like to see more content surrounding this, because I'm pretty certain I've seen noticable differences in muzzle and underbarrel attachments that appear to look identical in the game. I will also go as far as saying that there seems to be a few reflex optics that are more accurate than others even though they have the same magnification, and was tested on the same gun with every other attachment being the same.
Glad to see we have at least one COD content creating actually doing something original and useful and not regurgitating the same crap as everyone else. Nice video. !
In my personal experience, combing the Phase 3 grip (according to Ace, its the best horizontal recoil dampener grip) and the solely vertical recoil dampener muzzle for the particular weapon gets probably the best results. Such muzzles for most ARs and some LMGs is the XTen Ported 290 and for SMGs its the XRK Sandstorm.
I've been a fan of your videos for a few years now, and you definitely earn your money Sir!
Thanks this is kind of what my comment on your latest post was about, please go into this in detail you’re the only streamer we can trust to really run the tests
Ace, if you put that extra work in to get more recoil pattern samples then I would love that. You’re the man!
Any stat video you do I’ll gladly watch! Knowledge is power 💪💪
I would love to see more in depth stuff you are far and away my favorite cod creator because of the way you lay everything out and because of your consistency. We need a cheat sheet or infographic of all of your recommended loadouts and attachments etc.
For your red rectangles could you say add a green vertical line down the middle then for every pixel a shot is away from that line add a numerical value and add them all up. The higher the number the worse the attach using a average over how many rectangles you have based on the shots in the wall you do ?
i went into firing range and just quickly tested myself to see which one helped and had been using the same 2 you concluded so im glad my eyes can still spot the diff in my own play
Yes please make as many videos about this as need be. This is something I immediately noticed when leveling up guns and it’s beyond frustrating and confusing as to which ones I should or shouldn’t be using
I get that - but is it so bad to play around with them yourself and find setups you genuinely like?
Does everything have to revolve around a TH-cam video of “the best”? - the best spots - the best guns - the best attachments - the best perks and on and on.
Once we have “the best” out there, its all anyone that knows about it will be using.
Thank you for taking the time to track this info and share it with us.
5:20 something I noticed about the Cronen OP44 in those pictures is that it seems to be less sporadic than the fulcrum despite it having more pixels in the width, I might prefer tighter groupings over more sporadic if not tighter recoil. Though I probably would go with the other attachments like the sakin or crown
I already suspected this was the case, just from my own experience playing with the gunsmith and firing range. What I'd be really curious to know is, on top of the little differences between similar mods, do they also have differences in how much their values can be tuned?
they do, for example the xten muzzle brake on the AKs can be tuned 100% towards recoil stabilization with almost no impact on ADS, no other muzzle can do that
@@McNutEVD I would love to know how you tuned your M4 and maybe copy your build so I can try it out
your work does not go unnoticed. you are the dark knight rising when we needed him most. this hand testing is vital to the community !
2:24 IMO I always look at the "bullets to kill" in a recoil plot +2ish bullets. b/c I consider those first shots the "most important" (for most 'normal' guns). So the RF Crown looks super juicy on those first 6-7 bullets. EDIT: AGAIN ACE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING ALL THIS TESTING FOR THE COMMUNITY!
Been waiting for this vid for a while. Really wanna see more of this!
This is SO GOOD! Thank you for doing this work, Ace!
I would love an attachment video. There’s so many that do seem to have identical pros and cons and I’m not always sure which is the better choice.
"The most advanced Call of Duty ever"
*have to draw boxes around wall shootings to properly find out what recoil is going to be like*
They also have different tuning capabilites. I noticed this with grips and muzzle attachments that look like they do the same thing
Yes, very interested in seeing an underbarrel comparison video that would be incredible. Really hope they add advanced stats eventually though.
Also, +50 MS ADS speed for just a muzzle?! Come on IW, should be one frame at 60fps max, like 16-20ms.
I could understand that kind of delay for the suppressors because a full auto rated can is like a pound but even the Surefire Warden (I dunno the in game name) isn't heavy enough to meaningfully increase ADS time.
Truly the goat cod youtube channel
It has, as I never trust the bars & go into the training area. It's amazing how much two identically looking attachment stat wise differ from one another. The Laachman 762 taught me this a noob well recently. Now I see it becoming mainstream.
Hey Ace thanks for this, for a few weeks now I’ve been questioning whether I was just loosing the plot or if they really did have what appears to be multiples of duplicate attachments that had near identical stat values. But I swore they definitely played out differently but you made it seem like I’m actually still sane
Thank you for all the videos you make. You are one of the best content creators for the game. I appreciate all you do.
Every day that goes by Ace continues to show why he’s the most consistently greatest COD TH-camr
Doing God's work! Bless xclusive ace. I'd cry tears of joy if you did an in-depth for all the attachments
The most confusing game of the year award 2022.
So, they might have some differences, but be so close it's basically negligible. However, they may have different min max values and effects when tuning. So basically not any stock differences, but perhaps they have different values when tuning compared to each other.
I've been waiting for this video, supreme content Ace
You also could check if the tunning diamond is the same size. I have an impression there are differences there, especially how much tunning changes each diamond, hexagon, I don’t know how to call it lol.
These could be your most useful videos yet. Please have a look at the under barrels as well as half seem to be the same. Thanks
At this point I think even IW themselves doesn't have readable numerical stats for a functioning advanced stat. Since they have this universal weapon platform system for universal attachments, they might have created a modifier for those attachments which based on the original weapon's performance.
I suppose every weapon in MW2022 has a base stat that IW can work on, and they can work on weapon specific attachments like range related barrels, but there is a RNG stat generator involved that makes the weapon to randomize recoils etc. within the limited spectrum especially when universal attachments are involved, so that you will get a general recoil pattern but it is different in detail.
If this is the case, I think that the least thing they can do is to provide the static based stat and the static percentage for each attachment's modifiers.
Been waiting for this exact vid! So to answer your question YES YES please more like it with grips and underbarrels. Thx Ace!
Yes please do test all of these cus I desperately need to know. Also thank you for putting in so much work for us.
Great job! I don't know why COD has weapon tuning and then have such bad metrics showing the differences. Thank you for showing us the difference
Across all attachments. The way in which the pros are listed from.top to bottom/ first to last essentially let's u know what attributes are more focused on/prioritized. I.E. the lachmann foregerip is the best foregerip for vertical recoil control as all the fore grips list hip fire accuracy first. However the lachmann foregerip specifically is the only one that has recoil steadiness second. And aim walking steadiness third. Whereas the merc foregerip like all list hip fire accuracy first aim walking steadiness second recoil steadiness third and lastly hip fire control. It is important to note that any foregerip that list hip fire control last(it will always be last) will have a slightly higher stat bar reading beside the recoil stat. However that is only due to it reducing the hip fire recoil. And that sight increase in recoil control you'll see on the stat bar on the merc foregerip and the like is not actually in reference in vertical recoil. Thus making the lachmann foregerip the best for vertical recoil. In a similar fashion when it comes to muzzle attachments. Whenever you see horizontal recoil listed first above vertical. That indicates that the horizontal recoil reduction is prioritized (slightly in most cases) over vertical recoil reduction. Lastly. The description of the attachments or the most part are accurate in telling what is specifically prioritized. It really comes down to proper individual interpretation when reading.
Leave it up to xclusive ace to bring us the data the devs are too lazy to tell us 🤘🏻 I was surprised by the results, great video man. 👍🏻
Appreciate the work you've been putting in, been finding these vids very useful.
good job testing that, indeed a bit surprising, would appreciate more in depth analysis, albeit, only if it could be done without significant delays to the gun guide series
Really looking forward to more videos like this one. Your work is much appreciated
I'd love a deeper dive into this with more guns!
I've always wondered. Like some attachments just change the order and presumed effect on the weapon but have the same effect. Like the silencers that improve bullet velocity and damage range
Great work as always, Ace! We'd all be in the dark when it comes to stats without you.
I assumed the diff attachments would have diff effects and It absolutely affects my choices so this game is driving my ocd crazy. Lol. Thank you for all you do
Finally Aces channel is growing after months of stagnation! Let's get Ace to one million to show appreciation for all the work he does for this community! Share this channel with friends and family.
Nope not surprised they are all different but glad someone finally did some testing to prove it so thanks for your time Ace
Fantastic Work Ace. And very interesting. I will for sure watch any future videos like these you make. Too bad though that you have to do this kind of work an they won't just give us the exact stats.
I think it’s having one certain stat but just adding it to different models to match whatever aesthetic you’re going for, or which model looks best for you.
If that makes any sense.
I did some testing with different grips and muzzle attachments on the BAS-P and found that the RF Crown had the best recoil plot there too. the XRK sandstorm also really significantly reduces vertical recoil but I don't know if it stacks, in combinatory comparisons it seemed like you get diminishing returns for combining recoil reducing attachments.
RF Crown is a rifle compensator, how the fuck are you attaching it on an SMG (BAS-P) lmfao.
@@rymd1875 check for your self
@@shoesbutsockless I did, you're mistaken lmao
@@rymd1875 yeah I played again yesterday, your right I meant another one that looks similar but got them mixed up.
I think from what I’ve played around with, the bruen muzzle is the one to go with for the smg’s for vertical recoil. 🤙
Thank you for all this testing, and this just shows why IW should really give us the detailed stats
THIS IS THE SHIT I LOVE TO SEE.
Love when you did videos on this stuff.
I've also decided to do some hand testing myself. I'm tired of not knowing or understanding optimal loadout stuff.
THIS is why i loved Cold War.
Yes, their gun system was so perfect, but god was it accurate and just made sense and wasnt a mystery!
thank you for your hard work dude. would love to see more in depth testing
Nice, glad you're putting in the time to get solid data for the player base. Can't wait to see the various grips and how they stack up, though I'm a little curious about something specific. The MK18 barrel for the M4, the H4-T or whatever they call it, seems to reduce recoil a bit. It's stated to help with hip recoil control, I'm wondering if that basically translates to aimed recoil as well, and if that could be tested in regards to tuning vertical grips for that.
Another thing about tuning, there's a few grips that allow you to help with ADS speed, even some that don't have ADS listed as a con for them. Be interesting to know if one could cancel out the ADS penalty on an attachment, or increase ads speed with a grip like the TV wrecker or sharkfin.
I always use a suppressor, even though they don't even function properly in this game - I appreciate the quieter shooting, and I feel that it helps reduce the smoke from the barrel too.