Finally an Alternative to Vintage Greenbacks! AND IT’S DIRT CHEAP!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- In this clip I compare vintage Pulsonic Celestion Greenbacks to vintage Eminence Squarebacks (Square Magnets). I play both setups using a 2013 Gibson SG Custom Shop guitar trough a 1977 Marshall Superbass. The speakers are mounted in 1960B 4x12 Marshall cabs. The models are: Celestion: G12M25 75Hz T1221, and Eminence 12820S, 2x12820PA and 121460.
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Your chanel has inspired me more than any other on youtube. I truly hope you know how much we all love what you are sharing. Thank you Johan!
Thanks! It’s so good to hear that!
He deserves all the praise... Great channel, very enjoyable content
Hi Johan
If you really like the green back speakers check out Loran to greenback clone their about 2 db ax different in the fequency
www.melbournemusiccentre.com.au/lorantz-10-75w-8ohm-speaker-60025.html
I commented a while back about including a summary of your opinion at the end, thank you so much for including it in your recent videos, your expertise is really appreciated Johan, we all know you have a wealth of knowledge to share.
Thanks for the suggestion! :-)
Eminence sound actualy better. They have the perfect ballance on the bass side. Youre the man.
Thanks Ivaylo!
Eminence makes many speakers. Model number?
They sound totaly different, does not have the low end of greenbacks. But I think it sounds just as good, reminds me of the sensational G12-65 my second favorite after pre rola greenbacks. The problem with electric guitar is when it is in a mix it should not hog all of the low end from the bass guitar and kick drum. But when it is played by itself it might sound thin without the big fat bottom. HUGE bang for the buck.
I agree.
YES! Space for the Bass... always
I have to say I actually liked the squarebacks better on most, if not all of the comparisons. Not sure why, but the overall sound had a touch more clarity and some more midrange.
They seem to 'sing' more. I don't know if that means more overtones, I am crap at describing what I am hearing.
The Square backs have more 'snap' the green backs have more 'earth'. Neither are better just different and damn good. Love to hear you do a comparison with some Fane and Tayden speakers.
Or a 4x with two of each to broaden the sonic spectre.
Your asshole has more 'snap'
Dang it I prefer the squarebacks in every single clip!
:-) Cheers
mikaso - same
I always try to watch Johans videos with my eyes closed and make opinions then go back and watch again to see
Edit: Johan not John
@@JohanSegeborn I think reason why these seem so so so good, is because you have two variants. So in this clip, it's more like comparing say an H75 with a H65\H75 at the same time. You have two speakers with slightly different frequency curves that are really complimenting each other. My guess is that if you did just one pair in a 12 vs the greenback, it wouldn't be nearly as good. Food for thought. Pairing speakers makes a HUGE difference.
nothing wrong with either Greenbacks much warmer with great mids..Eminence got a great low end punch, tones would cut though the mix for sure ...man the SG rocks
Love the clarity of the Eminence. Used to have a '73 Fender Twin with one original blue Jensen and one Eminence square back, and that clean sound was the sound of angels.
Thanks!
They sounded great Johan! “Let’s Go”, to eBay to buy some right now, ha ha. You need to get a shirt printed with your head on it and that caption, “Let’s Go”! I’d buy it. You legend.
Put a set of square backs in my Peavey 5150 combo. Real opened up the potential of the amp.
Correction: Was inexpensive. Have you seen what he did to the price of Marshall Lead 12's?
It's the same with all the tips for cheap vintage gear: the moment a big channel gives a shout-out it's basically over. :D
you mean Johan made the prices going up?
@@TheGuizmo11 They were about $50 when he made the video. People are asking $200-$250 now. I saw a stack for $350. (dunno what they're getting, I got a head for $100 - wouldn't have paid more) When prices jump on 30 year old stuff it's usually because of some sort of exposure.
Seriously, I know.....
Nathan Stewart see, he's already bought them all and is gonna sell em for higher prices now ;)
Huh, maybe I should pick up a set of these for my old 4x12 cab.
*Looks inside cab at back of speakers for the first time ever*
Oh... Nevermind.
Edit* they're great for bass guitar too.
Just purchased all of the Squarebacks on Ebay. I'll be resisting them after this video premiers.
Someone's already got em up for $220 for a pair
Yea but for that price you could get a pair of 1960 Jensen p12n with silk cones that are on all your favorite songs from David gilmour to jimi page used them in the recording studio
Got a container full of these, will be undercutting you at every price
Wow, Eminence Square backs actually sound better.
I thought the same thing
I like the Eminence growl more than the Celestion snarl.
Cheers Abraham!
I actually have really liked the Eminence Alnico speakers as well. These sound good too! I bet 2 greenbacks plus 2 squarebacks would compliment one another nicely
I agree with you. Square backs have nice articulation. The greenbacks a very thick in the mids. Nice comparison. I would like to hear them in a wet /dry rig.
With the Eminence, it sounds like there is a treble booster engaged.
I still have my SUNN 3X12 cab with 1974 alnico Eminence speakers w/ aluminum dust caps(horseshoe) and they still sound nice and warm
Much to the sorrow of my budget, I usually always prefer the more expensive gear in these comparisons - but not in this one. Those Eminences really rock.
Lol almost all Acoustic 12s came with square back emis, after alnico become too expensive. I have 6 units laying around
Sadly I had to part with my Acoustic 6x12 cab. It sounded fantastic, but HEAVVVYYYYY.
I had an Ampex with them. I dropped and busted one. The guy at the shop got me a round mag 'cerwin' from the same era that he said was basically the same thing. He would know, because he was the guy who basically invented speaker reconing in the early 50's at Speaker Repair of California. Sounded the same to me. Seeing that cab with 3 square and one round mag reminded me.
Hi, Johan!
I feel really ok with the square speakers, but Greens are just a little more bass. Maybe to put them together both?
But the final solo sais me now: "GOOD GUITARIST" is the best way to get groove. I think, they are ok both, because you are to much stronger! ) C.Y.
Zigfrid
Thanks my friend! See you!
You are right the Emminence speaker are really clean the celestion speakers are muddy British sound.the sound is good on both but I like clean clean sound.both are good but the Emminence is very good clean n clear sounding.
Your channel is like ASMR for guitar players
Great demo brother ! I can't tell the difference. Thanks for the info. !
The Celestions sound dull next to the Eminence. That particular Eminence speaker is very similar to the square magnet "CTS" speakers that came in 70's Ampeg cabs(I would actually say the same). The man who founded Eminence in 1966 originally worked as an engineer for CTS and Magnavox(who later owned Ampeg by 70/71). Eminence originally started to supply Everett Hull of Ampeg 18 inch speakers for the Portaflex. After the beginning of the 70's, many US guitar amps came with Eminence speakers. It wouldn't be surprising that many "CTS" or "Magnavox" speakers were made in Kentucky by Eminence(environmental laws and cheaper labor). In fact the company is still the OEM supplier for many US guitar amp and stereo companies.
The Eminence actually sounded "better" to my ears overall. Clearer, a bit brighter and tighter and seemed to let the amp's upper end sound come through more. The Celestion was "thicker" or "darker". I wonder if the power soak colored the frequency response of the Celestion though. I imagine that both will do the job with a tiny bit of amp EQ tweaking. Money-wise - WOW!! I love Celestions but I'd go with the Eminence on this one.
Honestly I believe I like the square back speakers best they had more mid and more crisper sound. Big difference..good demo. Thanks for the comparison..I have a 50s Gibson amp needs a 10inch speaker...great video.
Great job Johan . An excellent demonstration illustrating the power of speaker's to shape the character of an amp . You would struggle to get that level of tonal change from valve swapping, but with speakers it's quite different.
Next to the clarity of the Emi,s I felt that the greenback,s were a bit subdued in the highs, but it does have me thinking... With two speakers from each maker in one of your 4x12 cabs it could make for some really interesting audio comparisons with the two you've already done :-)
Okay, I know I'm being a bit cheeky here Johan but in my defense I bet I'm not the only one that's had this thought , not to mention that you do all of this better than anyone I know.
Thanks and keep up the great work!
Both sound great I wouldn’t balk at either setup, I wonder what they would sound like combined two of each!
I have always used old Eminence speakers and never cared what people said I love the sound
To my ears, the Eminence speakers sound brighter but in a good way. The Celestions have a bit more "bark" to them. I prefer the Eminence speakers from what I heard in your test. Well done again, and thank you for the consistent and interesting content.
Great find Johan. I think I like them better. Seem a little clearer/brighter and probably cut better too without being ice picky.
Thanks,!
Let's see. What do I think of the Square backs? This is coming from a guy that has wheeled and deal'd his way into a lifetime supply of pulsonic cone Greeenbacks in Vintage Marshall cabs. One quad almost broken in. (For those that think old vintage speakers couldn't possibly sound like they did new, they do, amazingly so. Albeit a tad more broken in.) Okay, Squarebacks. Let me start with the video a couple weeks back of the Vintage Shin Ei Fuzz-Wah. I now own both the 6 and 8 transistor versions. Purchased at other worldly prices. Then there was the Marshall Lead 12 video...Now this. Luckily I searched everywhere for some SquareBacks and there are none to be had, anywhere, at any price. Phew! I got onto this Pulsonic cone kick in the first place by some guy patiently demoing every greenback ever made. What was that guy's name...?
hi .great video. it took me a very long time to admit that classic marshall tone can be improved: the 100 watters are a bit congested as oppose to big fenders which are too open. so if you put a brighter speaker (greenbacks are bright but the squars are brighter ) it opens up the sound. i achieve something similar by swapping the first preamp tube (v1)to a classic fender blackface tube the ge jan 12ax7wa it also cleans the amp adds definition to the low notes and the breakup is later. if you would look at a tone graph it would be obvious.it also works the other way. take a bright fender like a super or a twin,swap the speakers to celestion or hook it to a closed back marshall cab...or put a mullard i63 (best biggest bass ever! )tube in the first slot and you get more preamp gain - earlier breakup (good for fender)much more low mid and a more balanced tone much better for drive and you don't need that stupid tubescreamer everybody uses. please use nos tubes i'll be happy to suggest. for this amp v1 mullard i61(jtm 45) v2 mullard i61 (jtm 45)v3 mullard i63(jmp). thanks!
The green back had a nice growl to it with a bit more body. The eminence sounded better on the high end though. It would be interesting to see what the specs of the speakers are. I did a search and couldn't find much on them.
Johan, maybe compare the eminence with a vintage 30 if you have one laying around?
These speakers have been a known item to me for a while.. Since a friend showed his VTX classic.. he had 3 different ones like a mace and a deuce or something one of them was old VT and had these.. It just naturally had a slope like the Amptweaker tight metal does with the High Pass filter. The fundamental comes through without flub and the upper harmonics sing loud and clear. So confusing to me. As a DJ tech in the late 90s these weren't my favourite speaker at all.
Do I get mad at Johan for the price going up or do I get mad at all the greedy money whores out there who look for any and all excuses to raise the price? It's a conundrum for sure...
Cheers Joel ;-)
Ever since I moved from San Diego to Atlanta, I am in the wrong time zone to catch the live premiere with my schedule. It is sad because this is one of my favorite you tube channels.
Glad you like the channel Jimmy!
I have played the square backs for years and have been a kept secret of sorts for me, I love brighter tones in general and have stuck these speakers in lotsa cabs over the years and always been satisfied with the outcome from clean snappy country to classic rock they have always been a fav of mine, awesome video Johan!!
Now you got me on eBay looking up all kinds of cheaper and mid priced vintage speakers!
If you could do a video on those that would be awesome!
For example CT’s, Rola, Utah, magnatone magnavox,, etc , etc
These pea eyes sound great!
Thanks!
Wow the 12820s sound great! Normally I don't think anything hangs with the greenbacks, but these really do (though each has its own strength without a doubt). I ordered a pair for $60 not long ago, hope they're as awesome as these are.
I think the green backs have less tone and the squares have more tone and I prefer the green backs but since you have one can you post a demo of the squares but with the tone knob down a bit??
Are those pulsonic greenbacks?
Looks like there are some Eminence Squarebacks available on Reverb again, so I guess Squareback Fever has subsided for now!
The tone of those Eminence square-backs is likely what those Celestions sounded like when they were NEW.
And those Eminence speakers likely were bright enough to make your head explode when THEY were new. ;-)
the recent more frequent use of an SG in your videos reminded me to buy one. i did. it is great.
That makes my day my friend! Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn that thing might make my whole year ;)
The Emi’s have a far better clean tone, imo. The Greenbacks will always be the king of late 60’s/early 70’s rock tone. The Celestine Lead 80 and the Eminence square mags are similar to me, great for modern rock/metal and mid heavy amps. Any 5F6/5F8 based amp will sound great with these Emi’s.
Yeah I think that’d be s good match too
I think it was 83 or 84 when the square backs started getting replaced in peavey by the roundback version... I'd almost be curious about a comparison of square vs round eminence speakers from that time
I played once in a store a Marshall TSL 100 through a Krank 4x12 with Eminence Legend 1258 speakers and I loved the sound! They sounded a lot like these you have in this video: Open and aggressive with more lows and highs. They make Celestions sound like they're under a blanket in comparison... Cheers!
I had an old fender combo that died (M80) I think, with the standard fender eminence (pretty sure it's a 1258) and an old Peavey Basic combo with the square magnet 12820PA. I tried switching out the 12820 PA with the M80 speaker and they sounded identical in that cabinet. I removed the head from the M80 cab and use it as an 1x12 extension cab.
They sound so similar that it's a toss up for me. For the money, those Eminence Squarebacks are crazy good! God bless and rock on brother!
Rock on my friend!
love the square backs
Eminence, all the way! Howdy, Johan, checkout the used list on Guitar center from time to time - I found "1970s," Fender bassman, 4x12 for $133 and it had 4 alnico speakers that sound beautiful. The following year I found another "1970s", Bassman cab 2x15 by fender and bought it for 199$. They take anything I throw at them - they've NOT yet farted out ONCE. I drive them with a Mesa Boogie DC-10 with the bass slider, 80hz, eq @ +12db. I have yet to see if the 2x15 is original.
Awesome and I’m looking for them. Dream if making own amp just got closer!
I like the Eminence myself.... I like bright tones though so that for me is nice... Can always Eq in some more as need.... Always seems harder to take out than put in
Jason Sapp - other way around IMO dude! Wayyy easier to remove than add!
Cheer
Great sounding speakers for the money, cheers, Clive🍺✌
keep in mind if you feel like they're too bright you could always dust cap these things by buying about literally $5 worth of dust caps for the whole 412 on eBay and then just putting a piece of cardboard behind the grill suspending the dust cap above the speaker. This will cut the highs/ directionality and you'll be back in the Greenback territory. Killer.
Thanks for the advice! Should the dust cap be mounted on the speaker itself or behind the grill cloth as a beam blocker? I would love a «How to» on this.
@@magnusberger6762 Hey there Yes it's amazingly easy to do. What you want to do is if you're lucky enough to have a detachable grill cloth panel. You just detached that and set it aside. Now you're looking at your baffle with the speakers mounted in it right? So what you're going to do is take about a 3/4 or 1 in wide piece of cardboard strip across the baffle holes right in the center. Left to right. So now you've got this strip of cardboard either taped or stapled there in place going right across the middle of the speaker hole. What you're going to want to do is take one of your dust caps that you've bought. Depending on how bright it is is how big you're going to want the dust cap to be. If it's super bright you probably want like a three or three and a half inch dust cap or the biggest one you can find. Superglue the dust cap carefully to the inside of the cardboard strip, centered right in the middle of the speaker. When you've done this to all of your speakers. You'll find that the brightness is tamed and also that the speaker is much less directional. It doesn't feel like it's beaming in a small area at the audience. Now it's kind of resonating over the whole audience. It's much nicer. Enables you to hear it a lot better on stage too. Cuz it's not firing at your legs anymore it's more firing up at you and everywhere else.
@@ReddNashe Thanks man! Now I understand. It’s basically a cheap version of the Weber beam blocker. :)
@@magnusberger6762 Yes and it's surprising how wonderfully it works. I used it on an old cyber twin back when I was gigging a lot more In the early 2000s. That cyber twin was the most directional amp I had ever seen. The sound was like a 4x4 ft square on the wall. At almost 40 ft away. I stuck those dust caps on there. It didn't turn it into a resident miracle machine or anything. But it was much more resonant. Enough that I didn't have to sell it. It worked for the gig after that. Covered most of the audience
I like that the sqarebacks seemed to have a bit more grit and attitude. The greenbacks are really smooth and even in the midrange, but the eminence has a "throatier" sound. Also seems like the eminence compresses the signal a bit more. To me I prefer that because it's reminiscent of the thick and chewy bluesbreaker sound, which is personally my ideal tone
I actually preferred those square backs. Not what I was expecting. Thank you for showing us these speakers. I might have to consider a set of these for a beat up 4x12 I have sitting around.
I have a pair of squarebacks that came in a Blackface Bassman speaker cabinet,I bought from Guitar Center for $120 a couple years ago, cork sniffers turn they're nose up at them , but they sound good to me, they were pretty much standard replacements for blown speakers in Deluxe Reverbs, in the seventies :)
The old squarebacks were used in Ampeg V4 cabs and combo amps in the 70s. Pretty cool speakers. I wonder if the new Celestion Ruby can sound close.
The Celestions sound completely different to me, much more low mid clarity. I don't know if its much of a substitute. You make the point that the Eminence are more scooped and not suitable for chords, but I think 80% of the use of this sort of tone is for a rocking rhythm guitar sound
I wonder what a mix of both would sound like
I LOVE my 4 x 12 Celestion G12H 100. Big Bold Warm and Juicy.
Dream Diction Same here. A 212 closed back cab and another two in open back combos. Wonderful.
The eminence sound fine, yes. Why are they not valued more highly? My guess is that they are kind of ugly and the square speaker is not preferred, looks-wise.
Tbf they are really incredibly common, unlike greenbacks
Cuz they came in millions of cheap 70s amps
i got a pair of these from a peavey classic, i learned to play guitar
on back in the day tube ouput SS pre..i wore out then got fender all tube amps ..i got 8 of these in a 4-12 peavey columns like on lynyrd skynrd album 'one more from/for the road'...but once you play a Jbl d120f i can't go
back to these for guitar.but tempting man, recreate my youth ..but that would take me back to my homegrown yrs, hehe
Johan, you should pick up a couple of Celestion VX10 pulled from Vox AC4 10” models & the Vox AC10C1. I think you will be surprised how much it sounds like a greenback
I just got 4 wgs speakers two bran new, green beret and veteran 30.
I guess I just don't like v30 or anything like them but the green beret are awesome.
Need to try them mixed.
50 bux for all 4 Lmfao.
I have so many Eminence speakers the only Celestion I ever like was the g12k 80.
1978 black backs. G12-t75.
And the V type.
I like the sound of the Eminence speaker better but I kind of already knew that...
They are surprisingly good indeed
I know your video is 3 years old, but damn, really like them over the greenback M. But it seems on eBay these speakers are now running close to $80.00 each in 2022.
Thanks to Johan for putting this together. The Eminence speakers shown here aren't equivalent to Celestion Greenbacks, but they do have a voice all of their own and have been a hidden gem for many years ...
Just ordered a 1973 75w eminence squareback from an Ampeg vt 22 combo. Gonna put it in a 2 x12 plywood custom closed back cab with a 1980's marshal vinatge 30. Cant wait. Just worried the sensitivity on the emi might be too low. Fingers crossed
really different ! the eminence sounds way brighter .. Both sounds good to me
The EMINENCE speaker is the only speaker that doesn't smother the TONE Frequencies all the way through. Gosh. I wonder what makes the difference so good. The other speakers are all over the place. WOW>
The Eminence sound great but it's kind of apples/oranges to compare them to a G12M or H. All sound great, but the Eminence is not that similar to the Celestions. Totally worthy speaker, though. In a band mix it'd be great to have them both involved. Thanks again, Johan.
Deffo more chime on the Eminence. The Eminence would make great speakers for playing pre-Hiwatt The Who. I think the Celestions would come into their own with a touch up on the amp treble. But I realize that the point of the comparison isn't to change EQ. Another home run Johan. What would we do without you?
Realization 1: The Eminence ones kicked the Greenback's butt.
Realization 2: Speakers were not better 50 years ago, They did what they could with what they had.
So what is a pulsonic cone, anyway? Is this typical or izzit sumpin special... And I agree, the square mags were clearer and a bit scooped whilst the Greenies were kind of compressed and more middle-y. Thanx for the video, BTW.
Honestly, a 4x12 cab loaded with 2 each of these speakers would slay!
Was., not now.
And better than a v30. Certain blue marvel are better as well.
Hartley peavey wasn't stupid..
I can’t find these anywhere for $25 like the thumbnail suggests. They are minimum $100 each
those eminence speakers were also used in marlboro sound works products
reverb.com/item/14840987-vintage-marlboro-bass-box-mit-eminence-15-alnico-square-magnet-speaker-8-100w
There is not an Eminence speaker made {EVER} that is worth much. Good speakers, but nothing special or magical about them, and sure as hell nothing rare about them. Only a sucker would pay more than $35 for a good one.
I feel validated. I got a 10 inch square back in a peavey amp and I ended up turning it into to a cab and I love it. I was thinking though do I just have bad taste or an untrained ear to love an old stock speaker from a combo amp. Nope I’m just tuned in 🎉
I think...ill keep an eye out for these Eminence square backs!
oook, guess the squarebacks are staying in my peavey 210 cab.
The Squarebacks are really good but they are not GREENBACKS! B-)
Really a lot of bang for the bucks, though!
Cheers Bengan!
Johan Segeborn 1980’s Peavey Encore 65. All tube, 12” combo amp. Best amp 😎
VERY COOL
Eminences sound great and for some purposes (clean) better than the greenbacks.
Thanks Jesse!
I love the square ones, greensbacks too nasaly with chords (with gain) for my taste. Sqare sounds so open, greens compressed.
That is wrong information, the eminence are priced around 120 on avg used..
welp, they're not so dirt cheap anymore but still cheaper in comparison to vintage greenbacks lol.
I hear a similar thing to modern peavey/eminence comparisons. Very similar a slight difference in very high highs.
They seem to have more lows and upper mids than the greenbacks. A little less smokey and less of that Celestion grind, maybe a bit more cut in the mix. They really do hold up exceptionally well! I bought a squareback for my vintage 60's Silvertone 1483 (old budget speaker for an old budget amp, sounds right to me!) after your last video. Compared to a G12H-30 Anniversary, it's a LOT less fizzy. Less highs and more lower mids. I can crank up the amp more now without that unpleasant fizz that seems to plague so many modern speakers. Cheers, Johan!
Cheers Stevie!
He’s the Warren Buffet of amps. Now there is ‘The Segeborn indicator’ which affects market value of vintage amps!
The squareback has more treble but everything else about the Greenback sounds better. Just turn up the treble a little bit on the Greenbacks and see how that goes.
I bet you played both cabs together for some truly epic tone :) Have a great week Johan!
I haven’t actually but I will! :-) You have a great one too!
Hi Johan.....great video. What did the cone side look like?
They actually look pretty similar to those of Greenbacks
I have about 8 of these, I’d let them all go for cheap! Lemme know if anyone’s interested