This is a really great explanation of this kind of answer to this question (e.g., that the question presupposes a logical fallacy and thus is meaningless). I had one professor who, similarly, would argue that the question assumed a kind of category fallacy, i.e., asking it predicated omnipotence on the rock and impotence on God, which is a misunderstand of these terms. I think the angle your video takes is a bit stronger. Good stuff! I just subbed to your channel and look forward to following your stuff!
Already thought out an answer before watching the video. And the answer is yes. (John 14:10) God the Father could create a giant rock that God the Son in human form could not lift with his own human strength, (Hebrews 2:9, Philippians 2:6-8) however he absolutely could with his divine strength if given authority to do so by God the Father (John 14:28, John 6:38, John 12:49) So it depends on the scenario, but the short theoretical answer would be yes as long as we are talking about capital G God.
I have a different way of thinking about it. I think the answer should be yes. God can create a rock so heavy he can't lift. It doesn't violate logic. A rock that can't be lifted is perfectly logical and not the same as a square circle. And the fact he can't lift it doesn't disprove omnipotent because the rock was created with the purpose of not being able to lift by God. So it's perfectly valid.
Yeah, this isn't the answer you think it is, as it just concedes exactly what you are trying not to concede. If God is all-powerful but can't do things which are 'logically inconsistent' (whatever that means for God), then he isn't all-powerful. And your explanation implies logic is greater than God, since even he would be subject to it. If that is the case, why worship God and not logic, since it is the superior thing? Plus, this would contradict the Bible, which makes it very clear NOTHING is greater than God, and that he can do all things, see Luke 1:37 (nothing impossible), Mathew 19:26 (nothing impossible), Job 42:2 (nothing impossible), Hebrews 6:13 (no one greater), Psalm 145:6 (nothing greater). So your argument still leaves the fundamental contradiction unanswered.
@@Esch-a-ton3 So the real distillation is...God is all-powerful but he can not contradict himself, even if he wants to? So since people can contradict themselves, that makes them more powerful than God, since it is something they can do that he can't? Yet how can beings that are not all-powerful do something an all-powerful being can't? That seems like a...contradiction. lol
@jacobcoburn7634 God wouldn't contradict himself. A being that wouldn't contradict himself is better than both a being that can't, and a being that would. And God is the greatest being. Why would God do something evil, contradicting himself?
While I totally agree with your point of view, I'd like to present another idea. Let's imagine: what if a man asked God to erase Eiffel Tower from history? Not only tower itself would be erased, but all the images, newspaper articles, plans and everything else, including human memories - even memories of tower of the man who asked. How this man supposed to know about fullfilment of his wish? In other words, I do believe God is not bound even by laws of logic, but we as people cant comprehend all things He can do. Also, God created a trees and Cross was made from them. Part of the way to Golgotha man helped God to carry Cross. Is this an answer to this question? Its not like question about rock and omnipotence included "God also can't diminish His power at any point". Sorry for errors, English is not my native.
That question is like ask if can God lie,change or create another God, the answer is no, and just because He cant do it doesnt mean He ins't all-powerfull because being Omnipotent just mean unlimited power inside the logic and the nature of God.
The set of all rocks God can't lift is an empty set because he is omnipotent. Therefore saying he can create such a rock is the same as saying God can make an element that belongs to the empty set.
so we have to admit a maximaly powerfull god, bounded by logic, and thus never boundless. or we can just admit that omnipotence, in absolute, is absurd.
God claims to be all good and to not lie too. So claiming him to be bounded by logic seems completely valid. In fact people who are illogical are often liars so that also makes sense on an intuitive level.
@@Tarantula-hawk then we'll have problemes : if god is infinite and strictly superior to anything that exists, then it is impossible to believe in such god because the object of our belief would be necessary inferior to god, infinitely inferior, and thus completely different. what i mean by "object of belief" is what the belief designate. i say that because some ppl responded that god is no object, and i thought that they were deliberately misunderstanding. the only way we can "save" god would be to believe in a finite world. whitch we do not have the means to verify.
@@Tarantula-hawk you have to note that my argument does absolutely not say anything on the existence of god. what i discussing is about believability. if you assert that the world is finite, then you have to show how do you know that, or else it would be but an assertion of faith. moreover, i admit that we cannot conclude anything on if the world contains a finite or an infinite quantity of things. the most carefull conclusion that this argument leads to is that is that if we cannot determine that the world is finite or infinite, then we cannot know if we believe in the correct god.
@@eleborebeta791 I think you meant it weakens the greatness argument. You have good reason to believe the Universe is finite. The laws of thermodynamics imply quite strongly it had a beggining. Otherwise entropy would already be at the limit. Of course you could adhoc it into being cyclical or into multiverses
I disagree, I think that God can do the logically impossible. But there is simply no scenario in which he would need to because he is the reason why logic exists and has decided to govern physical existence by these laws. That isn't to say that a completely new logic couldn't have been used though. Just that other logic wasn't utilized and thus is exempt from human conception.
@@juhadexcelsior nah , he's the Logos, tge Logos is reasonable speech, by abstraction we get he's anintellect with reason. also everything exists with an identity, since God has an identity he must identity itself .
@planteruines5619 i disagree. If god was reason incarnate, there wouldn't be things about him that couldn't be comprehended such as the trinity. We can understand why the trinity exists and why it is necessary, but how 3 parts can be completely distinct but completely unified in essence and equal is still a true mystery. Such an existence is completey impossible logistically speaking.
Is God perfect? Does God have a perfect memory? Can God remember his very first thought? If so, what happened before that? God doesn't know, he wasn't there. If he was there, he would remember it! Wouldn't he?
Can god make a rock so heavy he cant lift is like saying can akin to make a square circle is illogical and stupid honestly a the problem of evil is better argument then this
This is a really great explanation of this kind of answer to this question (e.g., that the question presupposes a logical fallacy and thus is meaningless). I had one professor who, similarly, would argue that the question assumed a kind of category fallacy, i.e., asking it predicated omnipotence on the rock and impotence on God, which is a misunderstand of these terms. I think the angle your video takes is a bit stronger. Good stuff! I just subbed to your channel and look forward to following your stuff!
Thank you! Subscribed to you as well! Lovers of truth UNITE 👊🏽
I heard somewhere that he did and it's called the human heart
That's good
.
I don't get it
Interesting.
Already thought out an answer before watching the video. And the answer is yes. (John 14:10) God the Father could create a giant rock that God the Son in human form could not lift with his own human strength, (Hebrews 2:9, Philippians 2:6-8) however he absolutely could with his divine strength if given authority to do so by God the Father (John 14:28, John 6:38, John 12:49) So it depends on the scenario, but the short theoretical answer would be yes as long as we are talking about capital G God.
Yes! InspiringPhilosophy also has a good video on this (Omnipotence Paradox debunked)
Attributing human traits to a being that is outside reality, that's the problem with the question.
I have a different way of thinking about it. I think the answer should be yes. God can create a rock so heavy he can't lift.
It doesn't violate logic. A rock that can't be lifted is perfectly logical and not the same as a square circle.
And the fact he can't lift it doesn't disprove omnipotent because the rock was created with the purpose of not being able to lift by God. So it's perfectly valid.
Yeah, this isn't the answer you think it is, as it just concedes exactly what you are trying not to concede. If God is all-powerful but can't do things which are 'logically inconsistent' (whatever that means for God), then he isn't all-powerful. And your explanation implies logic is greater than God, since even he would be subject to it. If that is the case, why worship God and not logic, since it is the superior thing? Plus, this would contradict the Bible, which makes it very clear NOTHING is greater than God, and that he can do all things, see Luke 1:37 (nothing impossible), Mathew 19:26 (nothing impossible), Job 42:2 (nothing impossible), Hebrews 6:13 (no one greater), Psalm 145:6 (nothing greater). So your argument still leaves the fundamental contradiction unanswered.
Logic is uncreated and it’s an emanation of God’s truth. To contradict logic would to be contradict God Himself.
@@Esch-a-ton3 So the real distillation is...God is all-powerful but he can not contradict himself, even if he wants to? So since people can contradict themselves, that makes them more powerful than God, since it is something they can do that he can't? Yet how can beings that are not all-powerful do something an all-powerful being can't? That seems like a...contradiction. lol
@@jacobcoburn7634 how could something all powerful contradict themself? Do you believe God could do something evil?
@jacobcoburn7634 God wouldn't contradict himself. A being that wouldn't contradict himself is better than both a being that can't, and a being that would. And God is the greatest being. Why would God do something evil, contradicting himself?
While I totally agree with your point of view, I'd like to present another idea.
Let's imagine: what if a man asked God to erase Eiffel Tower from history? Not only tower itself would be erased, but all the images, newspaper articles, plans and everything else, including human memories - even memories of tower of the man who asked. How this man supposed to know about fullfilment of his wish?
In other words, I do believe God is not bound even by laws of logic, but we as people cant comprehend all things He can do.
Also, God created a trees and Cross was made from them. Part of the way to Golgotha man helped God to carry Cross. Is this an answer to this question? Its not like question about rock and omnipotence included "God also can't diminish His power at any point".
Sorry for errors, English is not my native.
I definitely agree with you
"Paradoxes are logic which resides in higher dimensions"
That question is like ask if can God lie,change or create another God, the answer is no, and just because He cant do it doesnt mean He ins't all-powerfull because being Omnipotent just mean unlimited power inside the logic and the nature of God.
Or can God microwave a burrito so hot he can’t eat it?
If you want to view the entire universe and to understand it's nature one must be outside it
The set of all rocks God can't lift is an empty set because he is omnipotent. Therefore saying he can create such a rock is the same as saying God can make an element that belongs to the empty set.
God just stoner laughing like: Check it out. I made this rock. Its so heavy. I cant lift it. Isnt that cool?
😂
So basically, only if he weren't real.
If God made a rock that big, what would He pick it up off of? tavi.
He'd have to create a base that would be relatively stronger than the rock, then...
It is a paradoxical staircase that would go on forever.
@@cresf ad infinitum, ad absurdum.
tavi.
so we have to admit a maximaly powerfull god, bounded by logic, and thus never boundless.
or we can just admit that omnipotence, in absolute, is absurd.
God claims to be all good and to not lie too. So claiming him to be bounded by logic seems completely valid.
In fact people who are illogical are often liars so that also makes sense on an intuitive level.
@@Tarantula-hawk then we'll have problemes :
if god is infinite and strictly superior to anything that exists, then it is impossible to believe in such god because the object of our belief would be necessary inferior to god, infinitely inferior, and thus completely different.
what i mean by "object of belief" is what the belief designate. i say that because some ppl responded that god is no object, and i thought that they were deliberately misunderstanding.
the only way we can "save" god would be to believe in a finite world. whitch we do not have the means to verify.
@@eleborebeta791 Your argument is basically the Universe can be infinite therefore God doesn't exist. Well it can be finite too
@@Tarantula-hawk you have to note that my argument does absolutely not say anything on the existence of god. what i discussing is about believability.
if you assert that the world is finite, then you have to show how do you know that, or else it would be but an assertion of faith.
moreover, i admit that we cannot conclude anything on if the world contains a finite or an infinite quantity of things.
the most carefull conclusion that this argument leads to is that is that if we cannot determine that the world is finite or infinite, then we cannot know if we believe in the correct god.
@@eleborebeta791 I think you meant it weakens the greatness argument.
You have good reason to believe the Universe is finite. The laws of thermodynamics imply quite strongly it had a beggining. Otherwise entropy would already be at the limit.
Of course you could adhoc it into being cyclical or into multiverses
I disagree, I think that God can do the logically impossible. But there is simply no scenario in which he would need to because he is the reason why logic exists and has decided to govern physical existence by these laws. That isn't to say that a completely new logic couldn't have been used though. Just that other logic wasn't utilized and thus is exempt from human conception.
nah , because God is Logic
@planteruines5619 god is not logic, god is the author of logic and as the author, he can make it do or say anything he wants it to.
@@juhadexcelsior nah , he's the Logos, tge Logos is reasonable speech, by abstraction we get he's anintellect with reason. also everything exists with an identity, since God has an identity he must identity itself .
@planteruines5619 i disagree. If god was reason incarnate, there wouldn't be things about him that couldn't be comprehended such as the trinity. We can understand why the trinity exists and why it is necessary, but how 3 parts can be completely distinct but completely unified in essence and equal is still a true mystery. Such an existence is completey impossible logistically speaking.
@@juhadexcelsior well , you don't think that reason is mysterious , but let me ask you something, can you prove the existence of Logic ?
Is God perfect?
Does God have a perfect memory?
Can God remember his very first thought?
If so, what happened before that?
God doesn't know, he wasn't there.
If he was there, he would remember it!
Wouldn't he?
God is eternal, which means He can’t have a first thought because there He’s always existed, if that makes sense
You're attributing human traits to an unexplainable being.
Kinda cool that I can go to the gym and “do” stuff god can’t (like not being able to bench press 1,000 kg).
Can god make a rock so heavy he cant lift is like saying can akin to make a square circle is illogical and stupid honestly a the problem of evil is better argument then this