PARAGON - AVAILABLE ON AMAZON HERE!!! Paperback From UK site: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1797861581 Paperback from US site: www.amazon.com/dp/1797861581 Kindle version now here: www.amazon.com/dp/B07NYJBLQ4?...
@Rough Collies Rock I thought about doing that, but I don't really see the point in harping on the negatives. Sometimes I get some sense of cathartic fun out of dissecting something bad, but I like Babylon 5 too much to dedicate that much time to a video like that
JMS had major budget constraints making The Lost Tales...it was only going to be a DVD release....if he had managed to make it take off he probably would have got a larger budget to make the follow ups
In fact, most "sets" weren't real sets, but created entirely using CGI, which I believe is the main reason for their lifeless appearance and lack of meaningful camera work. It was a nice way of saying goodbye... kinda anyway, but as a movie/tv show thing I think it did suck actually.
Almost finished season three - in less than a week LOL! I have a channel on science fiction too (Clever Orbits) and would be honored to hear your thoughts - m.th-cam.com/channels/6dAW3Hm31RzmTqyFilScZg.html
I once said on a previous video that Babylon 5's dated CGI was heroin to me. That still holds true, there's something oddly nostalgic about those ships to me and effects to me. These updated ones are nice but to me are hollow in comparison.
I'd knock it up a few notches from "It sucks" to "OK" just for the scene where it shows the Warlock destoyer's G.O.D particle cannons one-shotting the Vorchan. It was such a shame we never got to see more Warlocks in action. .
I think you nailed the effects part of b5 perfectly. Although may I add although not in anyway amazing for the time what b5 was able to do was create a unique gritty look for the show which even now still looks decent. The latter spin offs although having a better effects budget went for more of a style over substance. I suppose the old saying "creativity thrives on limitations," is best suited here (just like the same was for star trek 2.)
I usually agree with all of these vids, but not this time. The Lost Tales was a great return to form from the intense & profound opening with G'Kar's narration and the beautifully sombre music. I enjoyed the first story and assumed that the possessed guy wasn't able to do so much damage because he'd already been sedated a certain amount. Very interesting (and quite creepy) story over all even though I'm not so religious myself. But the second story is exactly why we all love B5 so much. Absolutely epic scale and a moral dilemma for the protagonist. This is the very heart & soul of B5 and as always, Galen & Sheridan were awesome together. Very satisfying conclusion too..! As for the VFX, I always preferred B5's CGI as opposed to ST's models. The VFX on Lost Tales was a step up from 10 years previously and I was overjoyed the first time I saw.
On why it looks so much worse... B5 hid a lot of the sins in their budget modular set construction with shadows. It was really expertly done to make the most of what they had to work with. LT's brighter, more even lighting made many scenes look flat and fake.
I will add, I do disagree with you saying this "sucked". It did have its issues and was hemmed in by both format and budget in ways even JMS expressed disappointment in, saying he wasn't going any further with this. But I thought the two stories were great and fitted thematically well into the B5 u. The first, with Lockley, the priest and the demon worked in that B5 has always trafficed in mystery and the higher, lower, hidden worlds. And has always made a space for religion and faith, showing so many cultures, despite the wonders of science and the space age, faith still firmly was in place. Because no matter the wonders revealed by science, no matter how many answers seemingly provided, they never come close to the essentials, most notably the eternal "why"? Babylon 5 has fully acknowledged these things and this episode was one more examination of this, with a fun nod to The Exorcist. The second ep touched on events moving forward in the B5 U, but the time in between Sheridan accepting the post ISA president and his last flight. Time has passed, you see some more advanced tech, and the dark days that Centauri is still in the grip of. It is interesting Galen was the intermediary, especially considering the Technomages and the space in between they walk, the mystery, the why. Galen is a rebel mage, yet unquestioningly accepted his own vision. Sheridan is the one who finds answers to address problems that still manage to address his convictions. The idea he would invite this Centauri prince to join his family, to finally get a chance at a real family, rather than just a court, was both compassionate and inspired. I was a bit bored with this ep the first time I saw it. But having rewatched recently (I do a complete B5 rewatch semi-annually), I saw how it fit an unexplored space in B5 lore. Also was fun seeing Sheridan and Galen again, and both actors falling back so effortlessly into their respective roles, especially considering this isn't the first time they have met.
I didn't like the demon arch in it.. But I DID like the second story with the prince and Sheradin I DID like... AND FUDGE! The Intro to the movie.... I still look it up here on TH-cam from time to time as it gives me the shivers.. They did a wonderful Tribut to G'kar even though at the start it was not ment to be a Tribut as Andreas Katsulas only passed away like a week or only days before the release of the movie.
B5 is easily one of my favorite scifi universes, and I'd love to see more, but at the same time, with the way older franchises are being handled these days, maybe it's a blessing that WB is choosing not to do anything with B5.
These two episodes are much better than he makes it look. I enjoyed them, esp. the one with the potential emporer. They are more about ethical dilemata than the the B5 universe. I don't like the religious stuff, because it made no sense in the B5 universe. I guess Lorien would have mentioned that "there are some demons on Earth someone bonded to the planet and it's life forms and you can release them with some words spoken by a religious fool who has to be christian btw.".
To be fair that is more on the Wachowski Sisters. They were given a chance to make something great by WB and instead they gave everyone a whimper. It was their shot at redemption after several failed projects and it killed the working relationship between WB and the Wachowski Sisters.
I agree! The DVD was quite boring actually. And very low budget. I do think the CGI space sequences were pretty good though! And since when do crew quarters have a window? 🤣
@Brad B. I mean LOTR could've worked maybe as a trilogy of TV movies with self-contained plots and better writing, but the final product REAKS of laziness.
It will start out by saying that i bought this DVD on the day it was released, and have everything for Babylon 5 on DVD. I was a big fan from the start. The Religion aspect of the one story gave me a feeling that the writer of the story does not really understand Religion or at least the Abramoivch religions (Christianity, Jewish and Islam). No member of those religions believe we are going to find God or Angles among the stars. God exists outside of our universe.
Yeah, thanks to WB... If they had given JMS a free hand like with the TV show, Crusade could have been amazing, but just like Firefly the bigwigs had to screw it over with studio interference, reshuffling episodes and demanding a new and worse first episode to be made that spells everything out to the dumbest potential viewer instead of trusting the audiences intelligence and patiance and the author's vision. :/ At least that's for Crusade. I have no idea what the hell went wrong with Legend of the Rangers and Lost Tales was just too short with too little budget after too much time and with poor marketing to boot. If they had played their cards better, they might have been able to stir up enough hype to get something off the ground which might even have led to a proper series or movie in the end, but this thing was barely marketed. If I hadn't been hanging around on B5 fansites at the time, I'd never have known Lost Tales even existed until this video. I have literally never hear or seen it being discussed ANYWHERE until today, outside of the short mention of it's existence on fansites and nothing more.
It felt like I was watching a play on stage. I couldn’t put my finger on why until your review. They have a ton of scenes where there just sitting in a room talking or standing in a room talking. No fluid scenes down corridors. Just standing around on sets that seemed way too clean.
There is one simple reason for all your criticism. Budget. B5 Lost tales had a budget of 1 Million an episode Discovery has a budget of 8 Million an episode. With eight times less budget you can't do more than build a few interior sets get some non flashy SFX and hire a few actors. It limits the story you can tell and limits the vision you can put on screen. It's also the reason why JMS said he would not do any more of them unless Warners Bros increased the budget and despite the DVDs selling well they said no because there was not enough interest to justify the budget increase. :(
Wrath of Khan had nearly 4 times less.budget than the motion picture but its effects look better than the latter due to using what they had to its fullest. B5 from what I remember he 3 or 4 times less the budget but still looks unique for its time.
Wrath of Khan also didn't spend so much of its budget on excessive and redundant special effects. Somehow I doubt the movie quality remodel of the Enterprise would have cost millions to make.
The intro alone is, I think, worth it in the Lost Tales. And the introduction to the second segment with the reporter and the interview always makes me incredibly sad. The rest of it I don´t actually remember (it seemed pointless without anything afterwards), but some moments were brilliant.
Interesting. For me, the other two spin offs sucked but this one showed potential. It was really hard for me to get through the crusade episodes I watched (around 8 episodes) and I disliked the acting and could not connect to any of the characters. The rangers pilot disappointed me too, because the characters were introduced rather clumsily. It was not enough time to introduce them properly, so they stay stereotypical. In the case of The lost tales, i knew that It was more like a teaser for more. While as stand alone stories they don’t work, they succeeded in awaking an interest in more proper stories. Warner wanted to produce more, but only with the same budget as this first one and JMS hoped to get more money to do the stories justice, so he declined. The right choice, I think.
I actually enjoyed it. I liked the 2nd part better with Sheridan and Galen. The choice to save and try to rehabilitate the problematic kid wasn't surprising to me as it was a very Sheridan choice, but it was still satisfying. I knew when Vintari said he never had much kindness in his life that Sheridan was more conflicted than ever. So yeah, I like whenever compassion wins in the end as opposed to "kill the problem" because compassion is harder and requires more longterm commitment. It proves he's a good president and a good dad tbh, he will work hard not just for the billions but also for the individual. And there is always the hope (which he considers on a diet) but it's still there: the hope that this kid will become not just a better person through kindness and compassion but also a better emperor and thus helping both Earth and Centauri Prime. So it's kind of a win-win if he's able to turn this kid around.
I remember when the Lost Tales came out. I felt like you said. The in person stuff felt more like student level production. Cheap sets and green screen.
Another excellent video. I can definitely see your argument, though I will add the qualifier that I did enjoy The Lost Tales even if it wasn't exactly like Babylon 5. Now, that being said, I would like to ask you whether you've seen Gene Roddenberry's Earth Final Conflict. While it was produced after his death by his now deceased wife, I thought it was a better series than Andromeda, the other series produced from his story ideas after his death. And though it went off the rails in its fifth season, it had a pretty solid four seasons before that. I wouldn't mind hearing your impressions on it.
The stakes and dilemma of the first story was that the priest could revitalize interest in his religion and spread awareness of a cosmic theological threat if he paraded around this victim of an apparently real demon. The downside would be that the victim would remain possessed which would be contrary to his teachings to help the innocent. If the priest exorcised him on the station immediately, then he would help the victim but have no evidence that demons are a real threat. The reality is the "demon" was a prisoner on Earth and had to hitch a ride on a human to leave it. He was trying to goad the priest into doing the "right thing" and exorcise the victim right away. That way the demon would be free to return to heaven so to speak since he was in outer space away from his prison. Priest and Lockley figure it out and decide to exorcise him on Earth where it would be returned to it's prison.
Thumbs up the vid, but kind of disagree. While not great, it was still nice seeing more B5 that was just OK. And I know the intent was to show demand for more content, and then get the bigger budget to actually do the real stories he wanted, but like you said WB just didn't care to invest in it anymore, and it died just as it started.
The only thing that sucked is your low opinion of these two great stories, the first being the best, it was clever and unique, too bad you fail to see that with your weak cynical point of view
Did not know it was an attempt at a reboot. Thought it was a few story ideas thrown together. If it was an attempt at a reboot it would need more fleshing out. As stand-alone stories I like it.
What a wasted opportunity that possession story was. It could have been the beginning of a whole new epic story arc. Imagine if the thing possessing the guy tuned out to be only one of many malicious, incorporeal, demon-like entities that maybe the First Ones used to keep at bay but now they're finally in a position to spread and make the galaxy theirs. And maybe they do this not with big, fiery spectacles(except whenever one is forced to reveal its true form), but by quietly possessing certain people and manipulating the galaxy-wide community into tearing itself apart with fear, paranoia, religious crisis, old prejudices and war. This concept might be retreading some territory from the original series, but it's still a potentially more interesting villain idea than the Drakh were.
A appreciate your review. That being said, I still do hope to acquire those 2 stories on DVD. The good the bad the ugly...it's all still B5 to me and I like to judge things for myself.
No, it did not suck. The powers at be didn't give the show enough time for people to get a feel of it. I found it intriguing. What I have noticed is that you don't find any videos on YT of it. They were available for a time, then nothing. I wonder if the episodes dealt to closely with the truth around us, we don't see? Lost Tales episodes revealed the truth.
While I wasn't thrilled with these tales, the use of the middle school descriptor "sucked" shows the unsophisticated nature of the analysis. Looking for "stakes" in a character piece reveals a typical fanboy take that a writer is at fault for not telling the story you expected. A character-driven anthology is not escapists galaxy-wide stakes. 🙄
Regarding the sets: Keep in mind that they had to re/create these from scratch and do so on a tiny budget. TLT was, in a word, shallow...if you tried to scratch beneath the surface you saw the shoestrings. I think that, particularly in today's TV entertainment landscape, another B5 would kick total.
For me i thought the VFX for the ships and station looked great, obviously some of the indoor stuff very much lacks. For the "exorcist" short it wasn't anything special other than I was glad to have Lockley at the center of a story which I felt wasn't done enough in season 5. Then the the story with Sheridan was extremely compelling, I was genuinely on the edge of my seat wondering what he was going to do about this kid who "might" cause the destruction of Earth.
I definitely didn't hate The Lost Tales, was a bit underwhelming for sure, but I liked the opening G'Kar bit and it was one last time with the characters so I was happy even if a bit disappointed.
I am sure it has been mentioned in these comments before, but my understanding is there was a small budget that was meant to be increased for the next installment. Instead WB told JMS the budget would be the same or even less and he said no more. And I disagree. I think OVER HERE wasn't the best choice to lead with, but OVER THERE was a great idea when you consider Sheridan essentially being ask to murder a teen. Then the future implications of Delenn and Sheridan mentoring a future Centari leader, possibly Vir's replacement. So I think IT DID NOT SUCK. Sorry. You should really ask me about these things before making these videos. Sorry you missed those points in OVER THERE. 😁
I’ll be an outlier here and say that I enjoyed the upgraded CGI representations of the station and various ships, along with the massive interior shots and upgraded living quarters. Which may be due to the fact that I was never much a fan of B5’s bargain-basement visual aesthetic in the first place, which managed to make even the original Star Trek look solid and realistic by comparison. My main issue with the feel of “The Lost Tales” is that the station itself, once the backdrop for so much activity and drama, seems like a ghost town, completely unpopulated. Of course, the great strength of “Babylon 5” was always its storytelling, and here I largely have to agree with the author about the failure of TLT to live up to that legacy (though the second tale wasn’t bad). And, sadly, that’s entirely on JMS.
Suggestions for Fantasy: The Hobbit Trilogy - Did it suck? Game of Thrones Season 8 - Did it suck? Why The Dark Crystal/ Age of Resistance is awesome. 😊 That should get you started
Your next did it suck video should be Another Life on Netflix. It’s by far the worst sci-fi show I’ve ever seen. I made through an episode and half of the ten episodes. So honestly just do “Did it suck?”..Yep! End of video. It’s sad too because I love Katee Sackhoff idk why she would agree to do this show after reading the script.
I liked the second half more, they should have really picked Garibaldi for the seqel or an animated Valen story, but I read the Centari Prime and Psi-corps novels that were released after the show and they were amazing.
Hell, no, it didn’t suck. I watch is every time I can. It’s been on comet, channel 11-3 here. I love the characters, the plots afoot, etc and I adore it. One more word on this: Garabaldi. Missed but never forgotten. Ty.
Ahh it seems Captain Jack survived the thermal grenade and went on to become a priest to repent for his sins in teasing Franklin & Marcus with his beef stroganoff.
I agree that Warner Bros. have been sorely neglectful of the franchise, and the loss of about half of the cast over time has put a halt to many ideas for continuing as-is. I wish the talk of the movie reboot had amounted to more, although I am incredibly leary of the reboot culture in Hollywood now, but it would have been amazing to see how the original visions for the ships such as the Omega could be realised. The reason for the different graphics in the CGI was because much of the original material had been lost, which is a tragedy.
Wah! I had to turn it off after I realised you were telling the storylines! I’m a B5 fan but strangely never heard about these 0_o... I’ma track them down! Even though yer, they do seem pretty cheap and crappy compared to the actual show. Still it has to be better than Star Trek: Discovery so beggars can’t be choosy.
I would love a fight SIM and leader like X wing like game in the Babylon 5 universe Or ATV series in the vein of the expanse. Personally I think JMS should take back Back his Babylon 5 series from Warner brothers Give it to someone else so Fans can get the series on Blu-Ray And then get a crew continuation series for BF5. Because one of the story lines That intrigued me was what happened to John Sheridan Son and trying to prevent the dark prophecy that fell boot for him on his Eighteenth birthday.
Babylon 5 is about storytelling and the people. A 5 season Arc, with follow up movies. Talk less about the special effects and more about the storyline.
Babylon 5 is a victim of its own proficiency. You can't really do a "spin off" within the established era as said spin off is beholden to the main canon and pegged in creatively. So the only real option is to go to a time era that has no or very little impact on the main era or (like the dreadful spin off film with the extra dimensional alien invasion) you just make up some convoluted bullsh*t that doesn't upset the main canon. Either way fans of the core series will have the same question. "Why should I care about this?" Honestly the only thing I think they could do is just remake it but go back to JMS's 5 season arc. I'm a huge fan of the original run but even I have to admit that squeezing seasons 4 and 5 together didn't work well and meant of course that when they got the green light for a full 5th season they didn't really have the material. I really want to know how the end was *supposed* to play out.
Hmm. The B5 mythology has alot of potential. What other first ones are there that didn't leave? What about the planet B5 was orbiting? Are there connections to other galaxies? Is there a native race in hyperspace? The Vorlons were kind of like Angels and the Shadows kind of like Devils or Demons. Did either race have a splinter or hybrid? Thanks for the cool video 👍
Fantasy is pretty much SI-FI when you think about it...medieval era on different worlds with exotic flora and fauna ( dragons trolls and other beasties)
Short answer, yes. The first one was a misplaced Outer Limits script produced with Babylon 5 props and costumes. The second was quite watchable but ultimately a narrative orphan. It needed to be included in a wider arc and expanded upon, it could've been a killer 'season 7' two parter. As it was it was just enough to be peak one's interest and be boring all at the same time.
I liked the potential emperor story, but the religious stuff sucked. A Demon that needs a priest to be released into space by speaking some words? Should have included at least a PSI Corps guy/gal who has the established capacity to do something with another brain and maybe set an energy based lifeform free that's on a level with Vorlons a million years ago.
I only ever saw the original Dark Crystal many many years ago so I don't really have super strong feelings on it. The new Netflix show looks cool though
I think the biggest issue with the new looks, is that unlike any other property they didn't change the world. Everybody else more or less was new location at least but always with different locations. Where as for the B5 universe it's something we know so well, so when the CGI got added on we noticed every odd bit.
I thought the first episode had promise but they didn't follow through with it (God and Satan are real type story). That woulda been interesting in this type of show. And they should of had Sheridan as the lead with maybe one or two of the alien ambassadors involved.
I liked the second half better. Also I wasn't fond of the changed design of the bay area or whatever that was. Not so much because it has been updated in the 10 year gap. But it doesn't make sense since we already know that it will still look the same when B5 will be blown up. Why would it look different in the time inbetween?
According to people I know who worked on the Vancouver set--the budget was slashed the day after they started filming and that forced a lot of rewrites and use of CGI that was only for preproduction
Lost Tales gave a portmanteau of interesting stories but it gave us a glimpse of what B5 could look like if it got an overhaul. Although if it was done now it would look even better. Also it does have a somewhat 'low budget' feel.
I think your „diagnosis“ is spot on. The budget was waaaay too small and so was the scope. This feels like something that should be a bonus feature on a big B5 re-release. I remember that they even planned an installment about Garibaldi, which they had to cut because of the small budget. Many of the sets were obviously virtual, especially Lochley‘s quarters. Anyway, back in 2007 it was great to see a little bit new of B5, but I think both TLotR (lol, same acronym as a certain famous fantasy novel) and TLT just watered down B5‘s legacy.
THe first half of this film to me had almost a relishy type theme to it but failed to go into any depth of was it an actual alien or a demon that had possessed the guy or some some unknown Alien race trapped on earth that come across as demon type entities. As for the second half it kill the child emperor to prevent a war or spare him & hope that by showing mercy would try & prevent said war.. this was very lacking to me in many ways OK the visuals may have been updated by the script n plot was very watered down and lacked everything that B5 had as a tv series.
The One that was, The One that is and The One that shall be. Unfortunately the original success of B5 was not to be delivered again, so it seems to be The Thing that shall not be!
nah. the stories were fairly unique and original. but yeah, the budget got in the way. the castings were questionable at best on the newer characters, no doubt due to money. if these streaming services were so hungry for new content, then the babylon franchise be picked up....only if done right.
I don’t think anyone ever cared about the character of lockley. I don’t know if she was poorly written or acted or both. The other problem is they never bothered to tell the stories we fans wanted. Oh well.
If we would know that demons who are possesing people exist doesnt mean we know that Satan itself exists. And if we knew Satan exists that doesnt mean God exists as well.
PARAGON - AVAILABLE ON AMAZON HERE!!!
Paperback From UK site: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1797861581
Paperback from US site: www.amazon.com/dp/1797861581
Kindle version now here: www.amazon.com/dp/B07NYJBLQ4?...
@Rough Collies Rock I thought about doing that, but I don't really see the point in harping on the negatives. Sometimes I get some sense of cathartic fun out of dissecting something bad, but I like Babylon 5 too much to dedicate that much time to a video like that
JMS had major budget constraints making The Lost Tales...it was only going to be a DVD release....if he had managed to make it take off he probably would have got a larger budget to make the follow ups
In fact, most "sets" weren't real sets, but created entirely using CGI, which I believe is the main reason for their lifeless appearance and lack of meaningful camera work. It was a nice way of saying goodbye... kinda anyway, but as a movie/tv show thing I think it did suck actually.
A way of saying a kinds of good bye yeah I suppose it is in some ways, but I agree it did suck as a mini tv series come film.
Thanks to your Legend of the Rangers video last week, I started watching B5 for the first time in three years.
HAVING A BLAST
THANK YOU
Almost finished season three - in less than a week LOL!
I have a channel on science fiction too (Clever Orbits) and would be honored to hear your thoughts - m.th-cam.com/channels/6dAW3Hm31RzmTqyFilScZg.html
I once said on a previous video that Babylon 5's dated CGI was heroin to me. That still holds true, there's something oddly nostalgic about those ships to me and effects to me. These updated ones are nice but to me are hollow in comparison.
Cthulhu also endorses Caprica.
He does? Well that does it then, I'll have to watch it
Cthulu is wise.
@@RowanJColeman caprica caprica caprica!
I'd knock it up a few notches from "It sucks" to "OK" just for the scene where it shows the Warlock destoyer's G.O.D particle cannons one-shotting the Vorchan. It was such a shame we never got to see more Warlocks in action.
.
I think you nailed the effects part of b5 perfectly. Although may I add although not in anyway amazing for the time what b5 was able to do was create a unique gritty look for the show which even now still looks decent. The latter spin offs although having a better effects budget went for more of a style over substance. I suppose the old saying "creativity thrives on limitations," is best suited here (just like the same was for star trek 2.)
I usually agree with all of these vids, but not this time.
The Lost Tales was a great return to form from the
intense & profound opening with G'Kar's narration
and the beautifully sombre music.
I enjoyed the first story and assumed that the possessed guy
wasn't able to do so much damage because he'd already been
sedated a certain amount. Very interesting (and quite creepy)
story over all even though I'm not so religious myself.
But the second story is exactly why we all love B5 so much.
Absolutely epic scale and a moral dilemma for the protagonist.
This is the very heart & soul of B5 and as always, Galen &
Sheridan were awesome together. Very satisfying conclusion too..!
As for the VFX, I always preferred B5's CGI as opposed to ST's models.
The VFX on Lost Tales was a step up from 10 years previously and I was
overjoyed the first time I saw.
On why it looks so much worse... B5 hid a lot of the sins in their budget modular set construction with shadows. It was really expertly done to make the most of what they had to work with. LT's brighter, more even lighting made many scenes look flat and fake.
Yes, sadly you're right. Watched them when they were released on DVD, haven't touched them since. Just a collectors item now.
I will add, I do disagree with you saying this "sucked". It did have its issues and was hemmed in by both format and budget in ways even JMS expressed disappointment in, saying he wasn't going any further with this. But I thought the two stories were great and fitted thematically well into the B5 u. The first, with Lockley, the priest and the demon worked in that B5 has always trafficed in mystery and the higher, lower, hidden worlds. And has always made a space for religion and faith, showing so many cultures, despite the wonders of science and the space age, faith still firmly was in place. Because no matter the wonders revealed by science, no matter how many answers seemingly provided, they never come close to the essentials, most notably the eternal "why"? Babylon 5 has fully acknowledged these things and this episode was one more examination of this, with a fun nod to The Exorcist.
The second ep touched on events moving forward in the B5 U, but the time in between Sheridan accepting the post ISA president and his last flight. Time has passed, you see some more advanced tech, and the dark days that Centauri is still in the grip of. It is interesting Galen was the intermediary, especially considering the Technomages and the space in between they walk, the mystery, the why. Galen is a rebel mage, yet unquestioningly accepted his own vision. Sheridan is the one who finds answers to address problems that still manage to address his convictions. The idea he would invite this Centauri prince to join his family, to finally get a chance at a real family, rather than just a court, was both compassionate and inspired. I was a bit bored with this ep the first time I saw it. But having rewatched recently (I do a complete B5 rewatch semi-annually), I saw how it fit an unexplored space in B5 lore. Also was fun seeing Sheridan and Galen again, and both actors falling back so effortlessly into their respective roles, especially considering this isn't the first time they have met.
I didn't like the demon arch in it.. But I DID like the second story with the prince and Sheradin I DID like... AND FUDGE! The Intro to the movie.... I still look it up here on TH-cam from time to time as it gives me the shivers.. They did a wonderful Tribut to G'kar even though at the start it was not ment to be a Tribut as Andreas Katsulas only passed away like a week or only days before the release of the movie.
B5 is easily one of my favorite scifi universes, and I'd love to see more, but at the same time, with the way older franchises are being handled these days, maybe it's a blessing that WB is choosing not to do anything with B5.
Word.
They would bring up a diverse homosexual cast that discusses hair color and skin?
"Badass, Goofy and Headstrong". Best rock and roll trio ever.
As a really big b5 fan, i didn't even know about this.
But I also thought legend of the rangers was garbage too.
These two episodes are much better than he makes it look. I enjoyed them, esp. the one with the potential emporer. They are more about ethical dilemata than the the B5 universe. I don't like the religious stuff, because it made no sense in the B5 universe. I guess Lorien would have mentioned that "there are some demons on Earth someone bonded to the planet and it's life forms and you can release them with some words spoken by a religious fool who has to be christian btw.".
everything is so clearly in front of a green screen.
WB has a library of the best and most successful stuff around. And what do they do instead? Jupiter Ascending.
To be fair that is more on the Wachowski Sisters. They were given a chance to make something great by WB and instead they gave everyone a whimper. It was their shot at redemption after several failed projects and it killed the working relationship between WB and the Wachowski Sisters.
I agree! The DVD was quite boring actually. And very low budget. I do think the CGI space sequences were pretty good though! And since when do crew quarters have a window? 🤣
Eh, I still think Legend of the Rangers is worse!
@Brad B. I mean LOTR could've worked maybe as a trilogy of TV movies with self-contained plots and better writing, but the final product REAKS of laziness.
I liked it... It had a chance to be a firefly me space above and beyond
Legend of the Rangers was a disgrace.
It will start out by saying that i bought this DVD on the day it was released, and have everything for Babylon 5 on DVD. I was a big fan from the start. The Religion aspect of the one story gave me a feeling that the writer of the story does not really understand Religion or at least the Abramoivch religions (Christianity, Jewish and Islam). No member of those religions believe we are going to find God or Angles among the stars. God exists outside of our universe.
Love Bruce Boxlietner he was amazing in B5. Agreed B5 was amazing but all the other B5 spin offs were meh
Yeah, thanks to WB...
If they had given JMS a free hand like with the TV show, Crusade could have been amazing, but just like Firefly the bigwigs had to screw it over with studio interference, reshuffling episodes and demanding a new and worse first episode to be made that spells everything out to the dumbest potential viewer instead of trusting the audiences intelligence and patiance and the author's vision. :/
At least that's for Crusade. I have no idea what the hell went wrong with Legend of the Rangers and Lost Tales was just too short with too little budget after too much time and with poor marketing to boot.
If they had played their cards better, they might have been able to stir up enough hype to get something off the ground which might even have led to a proper series or movie in the end, but this thing was barely marketed. If I hadn't been hanging around on B5 fansites at the time, I'd never have known Lost Tales even existed until this video. I have literally never hear or seen it being discussed ANYWHERE until today, outside of the short mention of it's existence on fansites and nothing more.
It felt like I was watching a play on stage. I couldn’t put my finger on why until your review. They have a ton of scenes where there just sitting in a room talking or standing in a room talking. No fluid scenes down corridors. Just standing around on sets that seemed way too clean.
It's because for the most part it was green screen because warners would spend any bloomin money!
Warner Bros taking an amazing IP and slowly turning it into a shadow of its former self
hmm..... Where have i seen that before?
Unless they're making Bugs Bunny or 1930s James Cagney movies Warner Bros. really are just the worst.
There is one simple reason for all your criticism. Budget.
B5 Lost tales had a budget of 1 Million an episode Discovery has a budget of 8 Million an episode. With eight times less budget you can't do more than build a few interior sets get some non flashy SFX and hire a few actors. It limits the story you can tell and limits the vision you can put on screen.
It's also the reason why JMS said he would not do any more of them unless Warners Bros increased the budget and despite the DVDs selling well they said no because there was not enough interest to justify the budget increase. :(
Wrath of Khan had nearly 4 times less.budget than the motion picture but its effects look better than the latter due to using what they had to its fullest. B5 from what I remember he 3 or 4 times less the budget but still looks unique for its time.
Wrath of Khan also didn't spend so much of its budget on excessive and redundant special effects. Somehow I doubt the movie quality remodel of the Enterprise would have cost millions to make.
The intro alone is, I think, worth it in the Lost Tales. And the introduction to the second segment with the reporter and the interview always makes me incredibly sad. The rest of it I don´t actually remember (it seemed pointless without anything afterwards), but some moments were brilliant.
Babylon 5 can’t be replaced
Interesting. For me, the other two spin offs sucked but this one showed potential. It was really hard for me to get through the crusade episodes I watched (around 8 episodes) and I disliked the acting and could not connect to any of the characters. The rangers pilot disappointed me too, because the characters were introduced rather clumsily. It was not enough time to introduce them properly, so they stay stereotypical.
In the case of The lost tales, i knew that It was more like a teaser for more. While as stand alone stories they don’t work, they succeeded in awaking an interest in more proper stories. Warner wanted to produce more, but only with the same budget as this first one and JMS hoped to get more money to do the stories justice, so he declined. The right choice, I think.
They should have given Bester his own spin-off!
I actually enjoyed it. I liked the 2nd part better with Sheridan and Galen. The choice to save and try to rehabilitate the problematic kid wasn't surprising to me as it was a very Sheridan choice, but it was still satisfying. I knew when Vintari said he never had much kindness in his life that Sheridan was more conflicted than ever. So yeah, I like whenever compassion wins in the end as opposed to "kill the problem" because compassion is harder and requires more longterm commitment. It proves he's a good president and a good dad tbh, he will work hard not just for the billions but also for the individual. And there is always the hope (which he considers on a diet) but it's still there: the hope that this kid will become not just a better person through kindness and compassion but also a better emperor and thus helping both Earth and Centauri Prime. So it's kind of a win-win if he's able to turn this kid around.
I remember when the Lost Tales came out. I felt like you said. The in person stuff felt more like student level production. Cheap sets and green screen.
Another excellent video. I can definitely see your argument, though I will add the qualifier that I did enjoy The Lost Tales even if it wasn't exactly like Babylon 5. Now, that being said, I would like to ask you whether you've seen Gene Roddenberry's Earth Final Conflict. While it was produced after his death by his now deceased wife, I thought it was a better series than Andromeda, the other series produced from his story ideas after his death. And though it went off the rails in its fifth season, it had a pretty solid four seasons before that. I wouldn't mind hearing your impressions on it.
I, too, would like to see your thoughts of EFC
The stakes and dilemma of the first story was that the priest could revitalize interest in his religion and spread awareness of a cosmic theological threat if he paraded around this victim of an apparently real demon. The downside would be that the victim would remain possessed which would be contrary to his teachings to help the innocent. If the priest exorcised him on the station immediately, then he would help the victim but have no evidence that demons are a real threat.
The reality is the "demon" was a prisoner on Earth and had to hitch a ride on a human to leave it. He was trying to goad the priest into doing the "right thing" and exorcise the victim right away. That way the demon would be free to return to heaven so to speak since he was in outer space away from his prison. Priest and Lockley figure it out and decide to exorcise him on Earth where it would be returned to it's prison.
Thumbs up the vid, but kind of disagree. While not great, it was still nice seeing more B5 that was just OK. And I know the intent was to show demand for more content, and then get the bigger budget to actually do the real stories he wanted, but like you said WB just didn't care to invest in it anymore, and it died just as it started.
The only thing that sucked is your low opinion of these two great stories, the first being the best, it was clever and unique, too bad you fail to see that with your weak cynical point of view
Anything that has Peter Woodward in it has merit. He's a superb actor.
Lost Tales was great because it was weird. It still had that evil vs good undertones from Babylon 5.
@2:255 You should have said "I have a bucket on my head and I'm the great Vorlon God Bugi"
Zog
No. It was actually pretty good.
Did not know it was an attempt at a reboot. Thought it was a few story ideas thrown together. If it was an attempt at a reboot it would need more fleshing out. As stand-alone stories I like it.
the only thing that really sucked is that it was the last one they made
What a wasted opportunity that possession story was. It could have been the beginning of a whole new epic story arc. Imagine if the thing possessing the guy tuned out to be only one of many malicious, incorporeal, demon-like entities that maybe the First Ones used to keep at bay but now they're finally in a position to spread and make the galaxy theirs. And maybe they do this not with big, fiery spectacles(except whenever one is forced to reveal its true form), but by quietly possessing certain people and manipulating the galaxy-wide community into tearing itself apart with fear, paranoia, religious crisis, old prejudices and war. This concept might be retreading some territory from the original series, but it's still a potentially more interesting villain idea than the Drakh were.
A appreciate your review. That being said, I still do hope to acquire those 2 stories on DVD. The good the bad the ugly...it's all still B5 to me and I like to judge things for myself.
No, it did not suck. The powers at be didn't give the show enough time for people to get a feel of it. I found it intriguing. What I have noticed is that you don't find any videos on YT of it. They were available for a time, then nothing. I wonder if the episodes dealt to closely with the truth around us, we don't see? Lost Tales episodes revealed the truth.
While I wasn't thrilled with these tales, the use of the middle school descriptor "sucked" shows the unsophisticated nature of the analysis. Looking for "stakes" in a character piece reveals a typical fanboy take that a writer is at fault for not telling the story you expected. A character-driven anthology is not escapists galaxy-wide stakes. 🙄
Regarding the sets: Keep in mind that they had to re/create these from scratch and do so on a tiny budget.
TLT was, in a word, shallow...if you tried to scratch beneath the surface you saw the shoestrings.
I think that, particularly in today's TV entertainment landscape, another B5 would kick total.
For me i thought the VFX for the ships and station looked great, obviously some of the indoor stuff very much lacks. For the "exorcist" short it wasn't anything special other than I was glad to have Lockley at the center of a story which I felt wasn't done enough in season 5. Then the the story with Sheridan was extremely compelling, I was genuinely on the edge of my seat wondering what he was going to do about this kid who "might" cause the destruction of Earth.
No.
Between B5 and the previous CAPTAIN POWER, one can almost chart a parallel course with "JMS SF writing" and "evolution of CG on television."
I'm ok with TLT... especially the secind one. Galen is the man. .. And he & Sheridan have great chemistry and dialog.
I definitely didn't hate The Lost Tales, was a bit underwhelming for sure, but I liked the opening G'Kar bit and it was one last time with the characters so I was happy even if a bit disappointed.
I am sure it has been mentioned in these comments before, but my understanding is there was a small budget that was meant to be increased for the next installment. Instead WB told JMS the budget would be the same or even less and he said no more.
And I disagree. I think OVER HERE wasn't the best choice to lead with, but OVER THERE was a great idea when you consider Sheridan essentially being ask to murder a teen. Then the future implications of Delenn and Sheridan mentoring a future Centari leader, possibly Vir's replacement. So I think IT DID NOT SUCK. Sorry. You should really ask me about these things before making these videos. Sorry you missed those points in OVER THERE. 😁
I’ll be an outlier here and say that I enjoyed the upgraded CGI representations of the station and various ships, along with the massive interior shots and upgraded living quarters. Which may be due to the fact that I was never much a fan of B5’s bargain-basement visual aesthetic in the first place, which managed to make even the original Star Trek look solid and realistic by comparison. My main issue with the feel of “The Lost Tales” is that the station itself, once the backdrop for so much activity and drama, seems like a ghost town, completely unpopulated.
Of course, the great strength of “Babylon 5” was always its storytelling, and here I largely have to agree with the author about the failure of TLT to live up to that legacy (though the second tale wasn’t bad). And, sadly, that’s entirely on JMS.
Suggestions for Fantasy: The Hobbit Trilogy - Did it suck? Game of Thrones Season 8 - Did it suck? Why The Dark Crystal/ Age of Resistance is awesome. 😊 That should get you started
Your next did it suck video should be Another Life on Netflix. It’s by far the worst sci-fi show I’ve ever seen. I made through an episode and half of the ten episodes. So honestly just do “Did it suck?”..Yep! End of video. It’s sad too because I love Katee Sackhoff idk why she would agree to do this show after reading the script.
I liked the second half more, they should have really picked Garibaldi for the seqel or an animated Valen story, but I read the Centari Prime and Psi-corps novels that were released after the show and they were amazing.
Hell, no, it didn’t suck. I watch is every time I can. It’s been on comet, channel 11-3 here. I love the characters, the plots afoot, etc and I adore it. One more word on this: Garabaldi. Missed but never forgotten. Ty.
Ahh it seems Captain Jack survived the thermal grenade and went on to become a priest to repent for his sins in teasing Franklin & Marcus with his beef stroganoff.
Different guy.
@@chbu7081 Hmm or his stunt double. Either way he has a striking resemblence to him.
I agree that Warner Bros. have been sorely neglectful of the franchise, and the loss of about half of the cast over time has put a halt to many ideas for continuing as-is. I wish the talk of the movie reboot had amounted to more, although I am incredibly leary of the reboot culture in Hollywood now, but it would have been amazing to see how the original visions for the ships such as the Omega could be realised.
The reason for the different graphics in the CGI was because much of the original material had been lost, which is a tragedy.
Wah! I had to turn it off after I realised you were telling the storylines! I’m a B5 fan but strangely never heard about these 0_o... I’ma track them down! Even though yer, they do seem pretty cheap and crappy compared to the actual show. Still it has to be better than Star Trek: Discovery so beggars can’t be choosy.
I would love a fight SIM and leader like X wing like game in the Babylon 5 universe Or ATV series in the vein of the expanse. Personally I think JMS should take back Back his Babylon 5 series from Warner brothers Give it to someone else so Fans can get the series on Blu-Ray And then get a crew continuation series for BF5. Because one of the story lines That intrigued me was what happened to John Sheridan Son and trying to prevent the dark prophecy that fell boot for him on his Eighteenth birthday.
Babylon 5 is about storytelling and the people. A 5 season Arc, with follow up movies. Talk less about the special effects and more about the storyline.
A direct to dvd release budget which was more Doctor Who than ILM. And this time weak pair of stories. This was one trip too many back to the well.
Babylon 5 is a victim of its own proficiency. You can't really do a "spin off" within the established era as said spin off is beholden to the main canon and pegged in creatively. So the only real option is to go to a time era that has no or very little impact on the main era or (like the dreadful spin off film with the extra dimensional alien invasion) you just make up some convoluted bullsh*t that doesn't upset the main canon. Either way fans of the core series will have the same question. "Why should I care about this?" Honestly the only thing I think they could do is just remake it but go back to JMS's 5 season arc. I'm a huge fan of the original run but even I have to admit that squeezing seasons 4 and 5 together didn't work well and meant of course that when they got the green light for a full 5th season they didn't really have the material. I really want to know how the end was *supposed* to play out.
Hmm. The B5 mythology has alot of potential.
What other first ones are there that didn't leave?
What about the planet B5 was orbiting? Are there connections to other galaxies?
Is there a native race in hyperspace?
The Vorlons were kind of like Angels and the Shadows kind of like Devils or Demons. Did either race have a splinter or hybrid?
Thanks for the cool video 👍
The main problem with the Lost Tales was that the first story was so incredibly boring.
Fantasy is pretty much SI-FI when you think about it...medieval era on different worlds with exotic flora and fauna ( dragons trolls and other beasties)
Short answer, yes. The first one was a misplaced Outer Limits script produced with Babylon 5 props and costumes. The second was quite watchable but ultimately a narrative orphan. It needed to be included in a wider arc and expanded upon, it could've been a killer 'season 7' two parter. As it was it was just enough to be peak one's interest and be boring all at the same time.
I liked the potential emperor story, but the religious stuff sucked. A Demon that needs a priest to be released into space by speaking some words? Should have included at least a PSI Corps guy/gal who has the established capacity to do something with another brain and maybe set an energy based lifeform free that's on a level with Vorlons a million years ago.
Labyrinth and The Dark Crystal reviews? I'd like to hear your take.
I only ever saw the original Dark Crystal many many years ago so I don't really have super strong feelings on it. The new Netflix show looks cool though
Massive Jim Henson fan since Fraggle Rock all those years ago, shaped my whole outlook. Love Farscape of course.
Looking forward to that Netflix series too. We'll hopefully see more of the Dark Crystal world, Thra.
I think the biggest issue with the new looks, is that unlike any other property they didn't change the world. Everybody else more or less was new location at least but always with different locations. Where as for the B5 universe it's something we know so well, so when the CGI got added on we noticed every odd bit.
I thought the first episode had promise but they didn't follow through with it (God and Satan are real type story). That woulda been interesting in this type of show. And they should of had Sheridan as the lead with maybe one or two of the alien ambassadors involved.
I liked the second half better. Also I wasn't fond of the changed design of the bay area or whatever that was. Not so much because it has been updated in the 10 year gap. But it doesn't make sense since we already know that it will still look the same when B5 will be blown up. Why would it look different in the time inbetween?
Right before the pilot, there was a video released by NewTek, as their Paradigm Shift demo,
th-cam.com/video/EhQZmtHF98M/w-d-xo.html
Very rudimentary screen play and a $20.00 budget. Pointless story because nothing was at stake and no characters made any growth.
Except for the Shadow Episodes everything else was slow and empty. I found myself sometimes shutting it off after watching a few minutes.
According to people I know who worked on the Vancouver set--the budget was slashed the day after they started filming and that forced a lot of rewrites and use of CGI that was only for preproduction
Lost Tales gave a portmanteau of interesting stories but it gave us a glimpse of what B5 could look like if it got an overhaul. Although if it was done now it would look even better. Also it does have a somewhat 'low budget' feel.
Didn’t like it. It felt so rushed and just trying to cash in on the best SF ever written. Everything felt too disconnected.
I think your „diagnosis“ is spot on. The budget was waaaay too small and so was the scope. This feels like something that should be a bonus feature on a big B5 re-release. I remember that they even planned an installment about Garibaldi, which they had to cut because of the small budget. Many of the sets were obviously virtual, especially Lochley‘s quarters.
Anyway, back in 2007 it was great to see a little bit new of B5, but I think both TLotR (lol, same acronym as a certain famous fantasy novel) and TLT just watered down B5‘s legacy.
THe first half of this film to me had almost a relishy type theme to it but failed to go into any depth of was it an actual alien or a demon that had possessed the guy or some some unknown Alien race trapped on earth that come across as demon type entities. As for the second half it kill the child emperor to prevent a war or spare him & hope that by showing mercy would try & prevent said war.. this was very lacking to me in many ways OK the visuals may have been updated by the script n plot was very watered down and lacked everything that B5 had as a tv series.
I thought the Demon was just a dissident Vorlon. Possibly one of their kind driven mad by contact with the third space denizens.
Wow that's a lot of green screen backgrounds. It would have looked better if they just shot it all in the lobby of Hayatt hotel.
It's striking how good B5 was and how meh to downright horrible (looking at you Crusade) the offshoots were.
Rowan acthully it csnt be 10 syersvsincd the end of babylonn5 since bsbylon 5 enedvin 1998
The One that was, The One that is and The One that shall be. Unfortunately the original success of B5 was not to be delivered again, so it seems to be The Thing that shall not be!
nah. the stories were fairly unique and original. but yeah, the budget got in the way. the castings were questionable at best on the newer characters, no doubt due to money. if these streaming services were so hungry for new content, then the babylon franchise be picked up....only if done right.
I don’t think anyone ever cared about the character of lockley. I don’t know if she was poorly written or acted or both. The other problem is they never bothered to tell the stories we fans wanted. Oh well.
The lost tales were so much better than legend of the rangers. I actually cringed at rangers.....
If we would know that demons who are possesing people exist doesnt mean we know that Satan itself exists. And if we knew Satan exists that doesnt mean God exists as well.
I liked it. Especially the story about the Exorcism.
This peace seems dramatic for controversial subscribtions.
I didn't like Crusade much so was not sad when it got dumped andI would agree B5 was of its time .
Highlander did it suck it had the midevil aspect of it and it also had the battle for immortality that had made syfy so good in the first place
It sucked ass. This is what you get when try to recreate an iconic TV show in a single room with no money.
You sound far too sane to be a Cthulhu follower 😉.
I enjoyed the last season of Game of Thrones I don't think I'm super sane haha
@@RowanJColeman I enjoyed it. It wasn't perfect, but it still wasn't bad by any means, in my opinion.
It didn’t suck. There just wasn’t anything to it.
2:17 You sunk my battlestar!
Are you planning on releasing paragon audiobooks version?
the best part of lost tales was the technomages