Very good video! Great to see someone who doesn't need to add in irrelevant music all the way through it and also someone who wears gloves doing mechanical work. So many How-To videos show guys with bare hands in all sorts of of solvents and chemicals - then wonder why they get sick so often. The skin is highly absorbent, so a pair of 50c gloves makes good sense. Lecture over.
Thank you very much for this video. I sheared two keys and thought I better see what's on the web to help as I was very puzzled. I thought a high torque would be sufficient, however two other major mistakes I think are to blame. 1) I put Anti-seize on the crank (both times) thinking that would help with potential rust binding. 2)Not enough torque the first time. Your video was logical and clear and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier. The flywheel is meant to bind on the taper of the crank but must be clean and dry and the more surface to bind to the better (vs scored taper, etc.). One of the best videos I've seen with thorough and clear detail. You seriously saved me on this one. Thank you! Thank you!!
He has hit the nail on the head. I hope i’m not the only one who thought the key played a part in securing the flywheel. Torquing down sufficiently whilst the key just aligns the flywheel is the answer. Thanks for the logical explanation.
I just think I’ve learnt that lesson snapped 4 woodruff keys on a Husqvarna crosser I just picked up🤦🏼 impact guns etc but only used lightly my crank is a little worn so is the flywheel but each time I have play in the flywheel but the nut is still tight but obviously not tight enough
This fantastic video teaches that Lap, clean and torque are the "KEYS" to successful shear prevention of a removable woodruff key which isn't meant to contribute to the job of precisely matched tapers in securing alignment. Some flywheels have a cast in place key that can't be removed for lapping and the importance of cleaning and torquing of that style is also often misunderstood and cause of failure.
This is weird... you posted with my channel name (Joe Blow) which I created before you did and even weirder is that in the process of trying to sort out the situation I unintentionally deleted one of your good comments in another video expressing your opinion about the best backpack leaf blowers and now I stumbled on yet another of your comments in this unrelated video. What's the chance of that? Anyways, I was going to comment here that keys are for alignment and the fact that shear prevention depends on smooth, clean, dry and tight taper surfaces when I saw that you already explained that and then I saw that it appears that I posted your comment, but I'll add to your comment that often people that do not understand will recommend lubricating tapers thinking easy removal which causes key shear and then blame key size or weakness. You can align by eye and not even install a key and be just fine. Often people not knowing how to use a proper puller think difficult removal is due to lack of lube, corrosion or because it has been on there too long which is just a matter of not understanding the concept of the intentional gripping power of matching tapered surfaces. Can anyone explain why we have identical channel names and why I am able to edit and delete his comments? I'd expect him to agree that having the same name as me is not good for either of us, because this identity confusion effects each others credibility and reputation. The comments of his that I've read are very good, but I don't want people thinking I posted his comments and surely he would feel likewise. I haven't found a way to solve this problem or contact him to straighten it out so if anyone has advice please reply here and/or contact me via my gmail email address which is : dontbeasmuck
THANKS FOR THE INFO BRO IVE JUST SHEARED THE CAMSHAFT KEY ON MY MY HONDA PILOT HOPING MY VALVES ARE OK STILL AND I CAN SEAT THE GEAR BACK ON THE SHAFT TIGHT IT LOOKS LIKE IT MAY HAVE SPUN A BIT AND GROOVED MY MORSE TAPER HOPE YOUR TRICK WILL WORK
Hi, We used to call it a magneto. Great work! Great news about Bobby! Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your entire family. Looking forward to the next...
Hey, it's the least I can do. Thumbs up and a word or two helps with the stats. I google plussed a couple videos to get you a few more views as well. Thanks for bringing us into your shop when you have time.
I believe that another tuber was talking about your video but he couldn't remember who he had watched. He didn't even know any of the parts that he had pulled out...he meant well though. So I take it on this model ATV you have that it doesn't have a recoil starter pull rope? I believe that is the issue with this 2004 model Bruin. The original rope starter was beyond repair and just as you stated the timing was way off. I got the timing lined up but still not cranking and yes I have spark, just sparking at the wrong time. Prayers for your boy..
woodruff keys are not meant to stop anything from moving, they are only to align gears or flywheels, if the flywheel key keeps getting sheared off, it is happening for a reason, such as you forgot to torque the flywheel nut down, flywheel started to rotate on the shaft and that little key is not going to last long. Loctite retaining compound is excellent to use for flywheel installation, with that and a properly tightened flywheel nut your woodruff key will not be in any danger so long as the shaft was half decent to begin with
New to you tube comments , this video is very helpful. I don't know how I fixed anything before youtube. Can I ask a question , not sure ? I don't care to much for signing up with forums. I have a suz 700 I re timed it still no start . Can you see the woodruff key way when the nut is removed.
The lawn care guys use it , i use it on the cylinder and bottom knife, its the same as valve paste but water based , so easier to remove.www.chemico.co.uk/lappingpaste.html sure you can get it in the states.
does the starter gear behind flywheel rotate on its own mine has chain on starter gear to the starter and im having trouble getting those on without binding.....please help
Did not show/tell how to clean grinding compound off of crank but did say twice how important that was. did no t say how to prevent shearing key or was seating the flywheel by grinding supposed to prevent shearing? do you measure turns of fywheel by time? How about turns not minutes.
It’s not good to rotate the engine in reverse direction, it can cause problems with the valve train. Should have rotated the flywheel counterclockwise, there’s actually an arrow embossed showing the correct direction of rotation. Also the gear should have been held to prevent the crankshaft from rotating so that the grinding was more effective.
Just wondering if I need a new engine for my Cub Cadet 524SWE that does not run. When I spin the engine with a drill & socket it used to spin freely (but would not start) now it spin freely at first then the engine locks up with a tight spot and turns the drill out of my arm. I checked my belts and flywheel key and they were OK. Just wondering why the engine is doing that. Thank you.
A bit late now but they're so easy to tear down and inspect I just tear down and inspect. It's an opportunity to know engine condition and replace other worn parts or hunt another engine or both.
I have trouble with my Kodiak 400 backfiring and doesn't start. did the carb, valves adjustment and all. eventually what I found is when I align the TDC line on the sprocket, the flywheel TDC T mark is not there at all. Huge mistake. so when I adjusted the valves counting on the flywheel T mark, I was so off that I had a valve gap 25 times larger than it should! crazy. Any ideas how to rectify and get the flywheel aligned as the sprocket? I did check the piston position while aligning the sprocket TDC line and indeed it was right at the top, also valves at the top so it is the flywheel that is off and I dont know how to fix it.... Now watching your good video I assume my key broke off and allowed the flywheel to shift? How do I get the flywheel off though? rrrrr draining the fresh oil I put in...
Hey Sean, Sorry to hear about your Kodiak flywheel (Generator) issue. There are special pullers that are designed to remove the flywheel, and they can be purchased on eBay. When using the correct puller tool, make sure that it protects the outer end of the crankshaft with either a sleeve that fits over the shaft, or by threading the original bolt into the shaft. A lot of force is applied to the shaft while tightening the center of the puller, and it is possible to "mushroom" the end of the crankshaft. A little care will prevent this. This video does a good job of explaining the process of "lapping" the tapered seating surfaces (of both the crankshaft and inner flywheel) to correct any scoring that may have occurred after the wooddruff key sheared. It is important not to skip the lapping step. Most people fail to understand how the tapered seat works, and assume that the woodruff key is responsible for preventing the flywheel from "walking" on the crankshaft. This is not the case at all. The true working principal is a friction "press fit" via the the two opposing tapers (flywheel and crankshaft) which relies upon a smooth mating surface. As the bolt in the end of the crankshaft is tightened to its specified torque, it causes the center of the flywheel to expand slightly as it is forced onto the "ramp" (crankshaft taper) and a great deal of friction holds the components in place. The woodruff key meanwhile, simply serves to maintain alignment of the flywheel and crankshaft during the tightening of the flywheel bolt. Therefore, if the tapered surfaces are damaged, and fail to seat properly, the woodruff key cannot hold the two components aligned, and the key will simply shear again a short time later (often to the intense frustration of the newbie mechanic). Be sure to clean the flywheel inner taper, and the crankshaft tapered surface with a clean rag, followed by a second cleaning with a solvent wetted rag. This will insure that the friction bond will not be compromised by traces of lubricant left by the lapping paste. Good luck with your repair Sean. Take your time, do it correctly, and you won't need to repeat it later. -Master Mechanic
I know this was over two years ago. You have got to make sure that the keys are the right size. You can't put a smaller size or it will keep sheering off.
Hi. I am struggling to install a woodruff key on a tapered shaft on my JD LX172, kawasaki 14HP engine. I can't see the damn thing! Keeps falling out, as the shaft is vertical! Are there any tricks to this? Do I glue the damn thing in there?
Don't glue it in just use a spiny dab grease to hold it in there. If you're still having problems with it it's because the magnet on the flywheel is pulling and lifting your key out try taking a small piece of wire holding the back end of key in place while you slide your flywheel back on to keep from pulling out of the keyway slot
@@brenttate9299 thanks for the reply. What I ended up doing was getting some valve grinding compound and applying just a smidge to the key. That stuff is very grippy and it held it in place. Problem solved!
my kx sheared the key because the crankshaft was bigger than the magneto. now i have to open the flywheel at a machine shop. im not replacing the crankshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no fukin way!!!!!!!
@@glennonheinrich8185 learn your vehicle better that is a one-way clutch gear which sits between the flywheel and the starter therefore as he's moving that flywheel back and forth engaged it will move that but if you will also notice that gear only turns in One Direction do some research before you start ragging on somebody
@@brenttate9299 I know that's why I commented about it. I had the same problem on Polaris predators kept sharing keys. I just watched it quick a year ago when I commented.
I tried it it didn't work for me and it doesn't matter what you torque the bolt to because it doesn't meet up with the end of the flywheel I made a spacer for mine fixed it hope I never have to work on one of these pieces of s*** again Kawasaki sucks poor engineering
![โรงเรียนตอนตี 2 โคตรหลอน..!! [โรงเรียนไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2MAEMwqVYh8/mqdefault.jpg)
Very good video! Great to see someone who doesn't need to add in irrelevant music all the way through it and also someone who wears gloves doing mechanical work. So many How-To videos show guys with bare hands in all sorts of of solvents and chemicals - then wonder why they get sick so often. The skin is highly absorbent, so a pair of 50c gloves makes good sense. Lecture over.
Thank you very much for this video. I sheared two keys and thought I better see what's on the web to help as I was very puzzled. I thought a high torque would be sufficient, however two other major mistakes I think are to blame. 1) I put Anti-seize on the crank (both times) thinking that would help with potential rust binding. 2)Not enough torque the first time. Your video was logical and clear and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier. The flywheel is meant to bind on the taper of the crank but must be clean and dry and the more surface to bind to the better (vs scored taper, etc.). One of the best videos I've seen with thorough and clear detail. You seriously saved me on this one. Thank you! Thank you!!
Hey Double wide 6, I can't thank you enough. Big help. Will chat soon.
He has hit the nail on the head. I hope i’m not the only one who thought the key played a part in securing the flywheel. Torquing down sufficiently whilst the key just aligns the flywheel is the answer. Thanks for the logical explanation.
I just think I’ve learnt that lesson snapped 4 woodruff keys on a Husqvarna crosser I just picked up🤦🏼 impact guns etc but only used lightly my crank is a little worn so is the flywheel but each time I have play in the flywheel but the nut is still tight but obviously not tight enough
You've got the neatest tricks for some of the nastiest problems. Thanks for another great tip!
+A LeBlanc As always thanks for watching and commenting!
just used this method on a 1958 Johnson outboard, still holding!!! good idea.
Good information! From now on, I will be doing this procedure every time that I access the flywheel key! Thanks Bud!
Well, you may have solved my problem. Thank you and God you and your family
This fantastic video teaches that Lap, clean and torque are the "KEYS" to successful shear prevention of a removable woodruff key which isn't meant to contribute to the job of precisely matched tapers in securing alignment. Some flywheels have a cast in place key that can't be removed for lapping and the importance of cleaning and torquing of that style is also often misunderstood and cause of failure.
This is weird... you posted with my channel name (Joe Blow) which I created before you did and even weirder is that in the process of trying to sort out the situation I unintentionally deleted one of your good comments in another video expressing your opinion about the best backpack leaf blowers and now I stumbled on yet another of your comments in this unrelated video. What's the chance of that?
Anyways, I was going to comment here that keys are for alignment and the fact that shear prevention depends on smooth, clean, dry and tight taper surfaces when I saw that you already explained that and then I saw that it appears that I posted your comment, but I'll add to your comment that often people that do not understand will recommend lubricating tapers thinking easy removal which causes key shear and then blame key size or weakness. You can align by eye and not even install a key and be just fine. Often people not knowing how to use a proper puller think difficult removal is due to lack of lube, corrosion or because it has been on there too long which is just a matter of not understanding the concept of the intentional gripping power of matching tapered surfaces.
Can anyone explain why we have identical channel names and why I am able to edit and delete his comments? I'd expect him to agree that having the same name as me is not good for either of us, because this identity confusion effects each others credibility and reputation. The comments of his that I've read are very good, but I don't want people thinking I posted his comments and surely he would feel likewise. I haven't found a way to solve this problem or contact him to straighten it out so if anyone has advice please reply here and/or contact me via my gmail email address which is : dontbeasmuck
Thanks for shearing!!! 😂
I’m going to try this on my Evinrude outboard motor thank you very much for this video man I can’t thank you enough
Good tips! I'm going to try this on my 25 HP Kohler command engine.
thanks much. this helped resolve my recurring problem.
Ty very much I didn't know such small things could cause so much work ty so much great video
Thanks man. This was a big help.
Great advice ,Thankyou
Extremely useful thank you very much.
THANKS FOR THE INFO BRO IVE JUST SHEARED THE CAMSHAFT KEY ON MY MY HONDA PILOT HOPING MY VALVES ARE OK STILL AND I CAN SEAT THE GEAR BACK ON THE SHAFT TIGHT IT LOOKS LIKE IT MAY HAVE SPUN A BIT AND GROOVED MY MORSE TAPER HOPE YOUR TRICK WILL WORK
Hi,
We used to call it a magneto. Great work! Great news about Bobby! Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your entire family. Looking forward to the next...
+Darryl Landry Thanks for sticking with me and praying for my son. You always have a comment and I appreciate it. Thanks
Hey, it's the least I can do. Thumbs up and a word or two helps with the stats. I google plussed a couple videos to get you a few more views as well. Thanks for bringing us into your shop when you have time.
+Darryl Landry Thank you.
I believe that another tuber was talking about your video but he couldn't remember who he had watched. He didn't even know any of the parts that he had pulled out...he meant well though. So I take it on this model ATV you have that it doesn't have a recoil starter pull rope? I believe that is the issue with this 2004 model Bruin. The original rope starter was beyond repair and just as you stated the timing was way off. I got the timing lined up but still not cranking and yes I have spark, just sparking at the wrong time. Prayers for your boy..
Thanks for the video....Hugh help!!
woodruff keys are not meant to stop anything from moving, they are only to align gears or flywheels, if the flywheel key keeps getting sheared off, it is happening for a reason, such as you forgot to torque the flywheel nut down, flywheel started to rotate on the shaft and that little key is not going to last long.
Loctite retaining compound is excellent to use for flywheel installation, with that and a properly tightened flywheel nut your woodruff key will not be in any danger so long as the shaft was half decent to begin with
Can coat the taper with a good high strength loc-tite too. It'll still come off the next time you want it to, just a little harder.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
+Nathan Hilbig Your welcome. Hope it helps you in the future.
Saved me again!
Great tip ,thanks for showing
New to you tube comments , this video is very helpful. I don't know how I fixed anything before youtube. Can I ask a question , not sure ? I don't care to much for signing up with forums. I have a suz 700 I re timed it still no start . Can you see the woodruff key way when the nut is removed.
Thanks 👍
Thank you so much this may help my situation I will do this today. God Bless
good trick
+Ozzstar Thanks
My keyway keeped shearing of it was my own falt..you must titan down the bolt or nut to the specific tension or it will keep sheering off
Thanks man!
Good method , Like it man !
+ShawnMrFixitlee Hopefully, it works out on this 4 wheeler. I will find out in the next week or so.
nice explained
Nice tip, you can get water based paste i use it to lap mower cylinders .
+Peter Froud Interesting do you use it with a cylinder hone? Is there a link to where I could purchase some?
The lawn care guys use it , i use it on the cylinder and bottom knife, its the same as valve paste but water based , so easier to remove.www.chemico.co.uk/lappingpaste.html sure you can get it in the states.
Should you change the oil seal also, if you see oil coming from the crankshaft? Or is just cleaning up the oil enough?
What about if the key way is damaged on the crankshaft
Solid
Great. Please actually show us the rest.
I was thinking, I wonder if you could use Locktite bearing retainer for problem key-way shearing. You would have to heat it to pull the flywheel.
thanks
+mike97525 You are welcome. Thanks for commenting.
Do u let the grinding compound sit in the shaft couple min before you spin the flywheel to with compound on
Thanks for your great info. Can I ask where I find the torque specs for a Yamaha 350 Big Bear?
Will there be any problem if there are slight scratches inside of the flywheel ??
does the starter gear behind flywheel rotate on its own mine has chain on starter gear to the starter and im having trouble getting those on without binding.....please help
Did not show/tell how to clean grinding compound off of crank but did say twice how important that was. did no
t say how to prevent shearing key or was seating the flywheel by grinding supposed to prevent shearing? do you measure turns of fywheel by time? How about turns not minutes.
It’s not good to rotate the engine in reverse direction, it can cause problems with the valve train. Should have rotated the flywheel counterclockwise, there’s actually an arrow embossed showing the correct direction of rotation. Also the gear should have been held to prevent the crankshaft from rotating so that the grinding was more effective.
PRECISELY what problems on which engines?
I don't believe the motor was turning, the gear behind the flywheel may have been but was the shaft was stationary.
whats that contact stuff where u install something pull it off and you can see the contact points ?
You're probably thinking of Dykem blue layout fluid.
Just wondering if I need a new engine for my Cub Cadet 524SWE that does not run. When I spin the engine with a drill & socket it used to spin freely (but would not start) now it spin freely at first then the engine locks up with a tight spot and turns the drill out of my arm. I checked my belts and flywheel key and they were OK. Just wondering why the engine is doing that. Thank you.
A bit late now but they're so easy to tear down and inspect I just tear down and inspect. It's an opportunity to know engine condition and replace other worn parts or hunt another engine or both.
PS CAN I USE AN IMPACT GUN TO TIGHTEN THE BOLT INSTED OF TORC WRENCH?THANKS
No bro I’ve snapped 6 I’m finally gonna torque it down
I have trouble with my Kodiak 400 backfiring and doesn't start. did the carb, valves adjustment and all.
eventually what I found is when I align the TDC line on the sprocket, the flywheel TDC T mark is not there at all. Huge mistake.
so when I adjusted the valves counting on the flywheel T mark, I was so off that I had a valve gap 25 times larger than it should! crazy.
Any ideas how to rectify and get the flywheel aligned as the sprocket? I did check the piston position while aligning the sprocket TDC line and indeed it was right at the top, also valves at the top so it is the flywheel that is off and I dont know how to fix it....
Now watching your good video I assume my key broke off and allowed the flywheel to shift? How do I get the flywheel off though?
rrrrr draining the fresh oil I put in...
Hey Sean,
Sorry to hear about your Kodiak flywheel (Generator) issue.
There are special pullers that are designed to remove the flywheel, and they can be purchased on eBay. When using the correct puller tool, make sure that it protects the outer end of the crankshaft with either a sleeve that fits over the shaft, or by threading the original bolt into the shaft. A lot of force is applied to the shaft while tightening the center of the puller, and it is possible to "mushroom" the end of the crankshaft. A little care will prevent this.
This video does a good job of explaining the process of "lapping" the tapered seating surfaces (of both the crankshaft and inner flywheel) to correct any scoring that may have occurred after the wooddruff key sheared.
It is important not to skip the lapping step. Most people fail to understand how the tapered seat works, and assume that the woodruff key is responsible for preventing the flywheel from "walking" on the crankshaft. This is not the case at all. The true working principal is a friction "press fit" via the the two opposing tapers (flywheel and crankshaft) which relies upon a smooth mating surface. As the bolt in the end of the crankshaft is tightened to its specified torque, it causes the center of the flywheel to expand slightly as it is forced onto the "ramp" (crankshaft taper) and a great deal of friction holds the components in place. The woodruff key meanwhile, simply serves to maintain alignment of the flywheel and crankshaft during the tightening of the flywheel bolt. Therefore, if the tapered surfaces are damaged, and fail to seat properly, the woodruff key cannot hold the two components aligned, and the key will simply shear again a short time later (often to the intense frustration of the newbie mechanic).
Be sure to clean the flywheel inner taper, and the crankshaft tapered surface with a clean rag, followed by a second cleaning with a solvent wetted rag. This will insure that the friction bond will not be compromised by traces of lubricant left by the lapping paste.
Good luck with your repair Sean. Take your time, do it correctly, and you won't need to repeat it later. -Master Mechanic
I've got a Briggs 12.5 that is steering kerways I've put 4 in it any explanations on this
I know this was over two years ago. You have got to make sure that the keys are the right size. You can't put a smaller size or it will keep sheering off.
Hi. I am struggling to install a woodruff key on a tapered shaft on my JD LX172, kawasaki 14HP engine. I can't see the damn thing! Keeps falling out, as the shaft is vertical! Are there any tricks to this? Do I glue the damn thing in there?
Don't glue it in just use a spiny dab grease to hold it in there. If you're still having problems with it it's because the magnet on the flywheel is pulling and lifting your key out try taking a small piece of wire holding the back end of key in place while you slide your flywheel back on to keep from pulling out of the keyway slot
@@brenttate9299 thanks for the reply. What I ended up doing was getting some valve grinding compound and applying just a smidge to the key. That stuff is very grippy and it held it in place. Problem solved!
I like
+Yovani Castro Good to hear!
At 5:40 you mention a nut. My bike doesn't use a nut.
same there’s only a bolt on the end of crank
put salt water on it and let it rust together !
lap it like you said - heat rotor slightly around middle -install and tighten before cool down -good luck getting off next time
That is a good idea. Nice tip. Luckily my method worked well that I used here.
my kx sheared the key because the crankshaft was bigger than the magneto. now i have to open the flywheel at a machine shop. im not replacing the crankshaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no fukin way!!!!!!!
Should have been holding the gear from spinning.While you were spinning the flywheel you're just turning the whole shaft.
That crankshaft would only spin if you got no compression
@@brenttate9299 you don't see the gear behind the flywheel turning as he's trying to hone the shaft with the flywheel? I do
@@brenttate9299 I guess I could have just been the direction he was spinning it the one way bearing was grabbing the starter gear.
@@glennonheinrich8185 learn your vehicle better that is a one-way clutch gear which sits between the flywheel and the starter therefore as he's moving that flywheel back and forth engaged it will move that but if you will also notice that gear only turns in One Direction do some research before you start ragging on somebody
@@brenttate9299 I know that's why I commented about it. I had the same problem on Polaris predators kept sharing keys. I just watched it quick a year ago when I commented.
I tried it it didn't work for me and it doesn't matter what you torque the bolt to because it doesn't meet up with the end of the flywheel I made a spacer for mine fixed it hope I never have to work on one of these pieces of s*** again Kawasaki sucks poor engineering
Spacer as in a washer?