Neil Kinnock on Brexit: "Democratic Deficit" in the EU is no longer any of your business!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.พ. 2023
- Marking three years since the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union, and 50 years since its accession to the European Economic Community, the UK in a Changing Europe brought together leading authorities to discuss the UK/EU relationship.
The event marked the launch of our major new report on the potential future development of the UK-EU relationship.
You can watch the full video here
ukandeu.ac.uk/events/the-uk-a...
UK: unelected head of state, over half its parliament unelected appointees, first past the post system that allows 44% of those who vote to elect a government with an overwhelming majority, and which fosters a 'winner take all' mentality, and equally seriously, the absence of a free press, an esential element of a healthy democracy.
But look at those Europeans with their democratic deficit.
Don't forget the Monarch is also the head of the state religion. Something even the Kim's don't have the balls for.
And your point is?
@@gaycha6589 I think Sean has made his point very well indeed, based on basic respect for humanity.
Brexiteers are brain dead
@@edwardbrady5843 then hopeful future Lab or Lib governments should really have the guts to put PR on their manifestos and change this for once and all.
When you are used to privilege equality feels like oppression
My only complaint about his explanation is that he did not have a handmicrophone he could drop after finishing.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
@@c.guibbs1238 No need for you to worry. The UK is not wanted back in the EU. I doubt the UK will ever be back but Scotland will join and NI uniting with Ireland and maybe Wales will go its own way and join. England might apply in 50 or 60 years when the population has been cured of exceptionalism disease.
@@chrislambert9435 So what? What is wrong with that? It was designed to become a Peace project in Western Europe and to that end, it has succeeded admirably.
@@petergaskin1811 It has succeeded admirably ! then what about Ukraine ?
@@petergaskin1811 The Fact that it is a "Federal Project" and you don't mind, but one thing for sure "no way were you guys gonna own up to that" in the run up to the 2016 Referendum
"democratic deficit" The Tories got a minority of the vote in 2019 but were handed an 80 seat majority to inflict whatever damage they chose onto the country!
i bet you rooted for lockdown didnt you.. and now look. state of it all..and you idiots just blame brexit.. uuuh no dont work like that
And don't forget the unelected House of Lords that actually has a legislative role. As ever, it's always about reflecting the failure of oneself onto others.
@@samhartford8677 and the House of Lords included a large number of bishops.
and the Tory leaders/Parliament never really wanted to leave. Indeed under PM May we entered into new EU structures like the reformation of UK Forces, because it wasn't in 'the deal' to leave the new EU army structure. Then PM Boris just carried on the humbuggery.
UK and EU have the same "democratic deficit"
....and Labour got a smaller percentage of the vote and even bigger majority.
It's weird to see a politician being allowed to make a point without being constantly interrupted and/or shouted over.
That's because he is on the Left - the side which constantly interrupts. If this were a right-leaning person, he would be constantly asked questions on his first reply. James O'Brien (LBC) is the worst person to do it. He will ask a question and, as it's being answered, he will pose another - based on the first few words already given. It's a tactic used by the Left to stop an answer actually being given. It makes the interviewee look like he isn't actually armed with answers. Or, another tactic used by Left-leaning interviewers is to say, "So you're saying that...". This is used to make up an answer to a question posed which the interviewer didn't like and wants to alter. It was used by a Channel 4 interviewer on Prof. Jordan Peterson, but she was out of her depth, and has never recovered as a journalist since that interview - where he destroyed her. As someone neither Left nor Right, I want an answer to the question, and I want to hear the full answer. As someone who can debate, I let people talk, because they get themselves into trouble without me making any effort. Let people talk.
Nigel Farage and Ann Widdecombe will be missed in Brussels, for sure !
@@c.guibbs1238
People who hold others to account for their words or actions are essential to any debate or congress. In that sense they are evidently 'missed' within the EU. A nodding chamber will only ever produce tyranny.
@@feistyphysicist
Sorry for you but as most Europeans, I do not feel "tyrannized" by that chamber.
I feel more tyrannized by the amount of vitriol (and straightforward lies), your beloved Victorian MP's are able to throw to the face of their opponents. If this is to be a model of democracy, you can keep it on that side if the channel, indeed !
@@c.guibbs1238
Thank you, but we have no availability for your sorrow. And you misunderstand (I'm guessing it isn't your first time). I pointed out that any chamber of people who merely agree with everything always results in tyranny - I was drawing attention to why any congress needs people like Farage and Widdecombe. I wasn't suggesting that the EU was tyrannical. Perhaps you could read in a better fashion.
Further, I don't know why you allude to British MPs as 'Victorian'. They are anything but - conservative values have gone. Perhaps you mean something else; in which case you have to be more specific. I wouldn't say that the British Parliament is a model of democracy, and I can't think of anyone who would. Equally, neither is the EU. However, Britain was the first to adopt a modern constitution.
Correct. It’s none of the UK’s business anymore.
Doesn't stop or preclude any of us having an opinion though.
@@ChrisLee-yr7tz true.
Ridiculous. Of course he can have an opinion. The whole premise is delusional.
@@ChrisLee-yr7tz Of course but, as of now, you lost all power to bend the situation in the Continent, according to your needs.
@@c.guibbs1238 What's that got to do with it? All I'm saying is anyone can have an opinion on it even if we don't have a say.
Old Labour man talking sense , what a breath of fresh air compared to these liars ruining the country now .
I've always thought people saying the EU council wasn't democratic was always a stupid argument!
Old failed Labour man and family made a fortune from the EU !!!!
Yes you are right thay are liars tories said thay would get brexit done
@@alanbrown4637 because Brexit will never be 'done' if what you count done as being when the benefits come, which is never. It's a complete white elephant that won't be done just like that
@grassytramtracks you are probably right has long has we have governments that don't believe in democracy like Labour and tories it won't be done that's why we need a government that will get it done like reform uk tels hope people see sense at next elections and don't vote labour
If you wanna be successful, you most take responsibility for your emotions, not place the blame on others. In addition to make you feel more guilty about your faults, pointing the finger at others will only serve to increase your sense of personal accountability. There's always a risk in every investment, yet people still invest and succeed. You must look outward if you wanna be successful in life.
The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional like I did. If you get the facts about saving and investing and follow through with an intelligent plan, you should be able to gain financial security over the years and enjoy the benefits of managing your money.
The stock market rally run is gone, but I'm not
sure if equities will swiftly recover, keep falling, or fluctuate in a narrow range for a few weeks, or if things will quickly get worse. I'm under pressure to increase my $300k reserve.
@@nicolasadrien5100the market is profiting if you are using a good broker or account manager to help out with trades or provide signals
Making touch with financial advisors like Kimberly Kent who can assist you restructure your portfolio, would be a very creative option. Personal financial management will be crucial to navigating the next difficult times.
Her success story is everywhere. I keep on hearing expert Mrs Kimberly's name being mentioned here and other platforms, Does she really worth the credits and reviews?
I am so happy Britain is out. The EU is much much better off without the blockheads in Britain.
And vice versa
De Gaulle said exactly that more than 50 years ago. He's right.
The EU has a democratic deficit? That's rich coming from a country that currently has a super-majority government based on receiving just 43% of the popular vote at the last election. And a government that pushed through a hard brexit despite 53% of the electorate voting for parties supporting a 2nd Brexit referendum at that same election.
The UK's FPTP-system is archaic and undemocratic, yet very few people even talk about this in the UK - preferring to point their finger across the channel.
As SPOCK, "It's democracy Jim, but not as the Greeks intended it to be"!
Don't forget the 800 seat House of Lords. Unelected and stuffed to the rafters with cronies, donors and dubious characters!
@@harryvanrijn6366 Indeed. There's that too.
@@harryvanrijn6366 i have to agree but in the current form id rather have 2 house of lords...they mostly at least take reality somewhat serious....also i think the lords shoudl exist but ONLY with ascended people (aka no donors no actual lords and ladies no gifted seats etc) only speakers(minimum of 2cycles) and maybe ministers that have serverd more than 5 cycles(cumulative regardles of role)....
U ninny,...a second ref. when they hadn't even implemented the first one...that's fascism.
So many valuable and relevant comments here. I’m struck by how many of the ‘old guard’ of politicians from either side of the UK’s political divide are able to express a crystal-clear and objective understanding of the issues surrounding Brexit and its impacts. Above all, it shows the incompetence and ignorance of the current crop of Brexiter politicians who continue to back what’s always been an ideological obsession with zero redeeming benefits - and who give zero fucks about consequences. Instead, they cling desperately to the wreckage of their pet project because they HAVE to be right.
he' loves it..he's on the gravy train.
What you don't seem to understand is that the 'old guard' of politicians, you praise, are the same politicians with personal and vested interests, who kept the UK in the common market/EEC/EU for fifty years, without giving the voters a chance to vote on whether they wanted the Maastricht or Lisbon Treaty that ceded more powers away from Westminster, and our sovereign parliament, to the EU.Again what you don't seem to appreciate is that in a democratic referendum vote a majority 17.4m people voted to LEAVE the EU.We're not talking some 'ideological obsession' or 'pet project' if 17.4m people voted for it.I would argue the ideological obsession lies with those wanting to rejoin the EU.Let's see in fifty years time of leaving the EU where the UK economy stands, rather than the three years we've had of leaving the EU, and a global Covid pandemic that wrecked most global economies,before we can judge the success or otherwise of leaving.The 'zero redeeming benefits' you talk about would be just that ,if the UK was still in the EU.The UK is in Europe but 17.4m people voted to trade and be neighbours with the countries of Europe,but not to be in the political and economic project that the EU federalists wish to create.The EU can follow its destiny without the UK being a part of it.Germany and France, as the power blocs in Europe, will always act in their national and self interest.The UK's national and self interest is best served outside the EU.
Tim, it's this "Wonderful Old Guard" that has caused us so many of the problems that have now come home to haunt us. Forget buying a house if you're young, unless the Bank of Mum and Dad can help; privatisations across the board, which have given us unaccountable and uncontrollable companies which both bleed the taxpayer and enrich their shareholders; loose or non-existent regulation of the City of London, leading to the disastrous economic collapse of 2008 onwards, when poor and average salary workers were forced to spend an absolute fortune bailing out the banks, who've now shown their gratitude by both failing to pass on interest rate rises to savers and have caused a slew of branches. By the way, Tim, all of the events occurred whilst we were very much part of the EU, don't forget that. But please don't be fooled into feeling some sort of yearning for the inglorious days of Thatcher, Major, Blair and their ilk; they to a great extent sowed the very seeds which are now reaping a very bitter harvest.
@@adrianlloyd6403 The brexit a very narrow majority secured for the UK is not the berxit this very narrow majority voted for, the UK had many options with brexit but instead the flutes at the top opted for the nuclear one, the UK is now and will continue to pay the price for the naive decisions of the ERG, Johnson, JRM etc, the tail wagged the dog in the UK with brexit.
If the 2016 referendum were to be repeated tomorrow with the electorate having the knowledge it has to day then the leave EU side would be blown out of the water.
@@fitzstv8506 Well rest assured in the knowledge that we're not going to have another referendum tomorrow on our EU membership, and neither the Tories or Labour have a policy to rejoin the EU anytime soon, so your prediction of the result of another referendum doesn't really matter does it?
It is a real drama that after 5 decades of membership the british people still needs to be educated on the functioning of the EU.
It is totally disfunctional. Uneconomical. Self-serving and totally pointless.
Leave business to those who can do it
Their political standards are of no known standard. Think about this. In any form of business or business standard, they have absolute zero knowledge.
So what and whose standards are they enforcing? This proves without a doubt self-importance, vanity, greed, control, and power.
EU Court judges are banned from writing dissents, but they keep rewriting the Treaties.
@@aleph8888 There is no such thing as an EU Court, so which of the following 4 are you talking about:
European Court of Justice;
General Court of the Europen Union;
European Court of Auditors;
European Court of Human Rights.
However the fact alone that I have to ask is proof enough of my original statement.
Furthermore, European Judges don't write or rewrite treaties. That would be in direct conflict with the Trias Politica. That right is explicitly reserved for the Legislation, that is European Parliament, and the National Parliaments, as applies. Judges, at best, interpret laws/treaties and verify them for mutual consistency.
@@aleph8888 Keep drinking your beer at the pub, old chap, but football should be the object of your statements, something you do know about.
@@paolocarpi4769 🤣 so funny it must be true...
Very well said Neil. When we exited the EU we lost the right to determine any legislation or regulations. Why is it that this government,. media and other organisations feel that we have any influence on the 27 states that the EU represents. The EU will govern themselves without any input from us. We left under the guises of becoming a self regulating country, to prosper with free trade and enter into new trade agreements. Well that has turned out well. Shortages across the board, one of the lowest economies, businesses folding and shortages in labour. You couldn't make it up.
Completely agree but it is here & people still are supporting it & believing the lies , people ought to be jailed for this , like bozo mogg Davis baker leadsome ids etc as a warning for lying in public office !
"The EU will govern themselves without any input from us."
Not true. The EU doesn't govern. The independent, sovereign, countries do! You English no sh*t about the EU!
No, but the Tory fraudsters could label reality as “project fear”.
Spot on @adrianotowie849 .. & we shall be forever poorer as a result of our nations continual decline. Whilst Union Jack flag waving sycophants continue to either ignore the problem, or lie to protect the mass delusion of Brexit.
@@TH-cam-are-Tory-Toilet-Crud They already did !
Can you imagine Boris, Truss, or Sunak being so in control of a subject?
No, nor me.
The folks in the UK votes for these idiots after choosing to believe the crap they read or listen to on UK right wing media. My brother lives in the UK and we were really disappointed about the lack of resistance towards Brexit. The stupid mob was voting and the knowledgeable people just kept silent. Why?
@@thankyouforyourcompliance7386 the stupid mob are louder and more extreme than the quiet ones and will do more to prove their support, however blindly and inappropriate it may be.
logically speaking…
Brexit wasn’t fought solely by politicians, it was very actively fought by the far right bigots and racists.
Sadly we have a government currently that seems to stoke these fires instead of extinguishing any.
It will change, it may take a while, but it will absolutely change.
@@thankyouforyourcompliance7386 if you find any of my comments from 2016 you will find I fought long and hard against idiots, but on TH-cam the tide is too strong. 😂
Turns out lots of people are closet tories too. Idiots. 🤷🏼♂️
I can Peter Shore and Tony Benn. Both hated the EU Superstate.
Johnson os actually pretty solid on certain subjects
Loud and clear. Thank you for this concise explanation.
The EU is a Federal Project
Absolutely brilliant and clear explanation, I would have loved to have heard the questioner respond.
Ah yes- but the EU Commission is the one that holds true power because it has the role of 'developing policy'- not the Parliament. It is essentially a civil service with vast political power. It's part of the design of the EU that ensures the principle of ever closer union continues inexorably. Now you can debate whether that is a good or bad thing and people will have different views- but it is the reality.
@@catinthehat906 In case you haven't noticed, the same is valid for Governments all over the world. Nobody is directly electing the UK PM _qua_ PM, and nobody approves (other than formally) the ministers the PM chooses. This is why it's particularly important that there is a separation of powers where someone else (in the UK's case, Parliament) is responsible for actually setting into law the policies proposed by the Government, and why 'rule by decree' (i.e. government/civil service directly issuing regulations) is not particularly 'democratic' (and can result in significant abuse).
As you said, we can debate whether this is good or bad, but it is reality.
@@dlevi67 It's not quite the same because the UK Government that proposes legislation can be (and almost certainly will be) changed by the electorate, whereas the EU Commission cannot. That is the crux of the matter. It's like a more or less permanent government. That was the deliberate design again you can debate whether that is a good or bad thing depending on your political persuasion.
I would assume that he's now sorry he asked that question.
@@catinthehat906 The Uk should be the last to mention democracy as it prepares to crown another "king" who can legally dissolve Parliament if he wishes. People in glass houses........
What a wonderful explanation. All Brexit supporting politicians should be confronted with it!
Simon John
I've heard it said that if the EU was to apply for membership of the EU it would be rejected for its democratic deficit.
@@wjf0ne True!
@@wjf0ne 😠 Very amusing, in an infantile way. Now set out in exact details what you mean by a ‘democratic deficit’ in respect of the European Union 🇪🇺. I suggest you listen V E R Y C A R E F U L L Y to what Mr Kinnock said, before you submit an answer.
@@sirmeowthelibrarycat 👍
The fact that kinock absent from UK x yrs and cares more for another colony that makes him multi millionaire to thank grave robbers EU
Wow ... someone from the UK who seems to understand the EU ... quite refreshing.
I almost forgot what a serious politician sounds like. The gulf between the quality of NK and the current motley crew is huge. It is more than a little depressing that we are being 'lead' by a cabal of charlatans and lightweights.
Michael Heseltine is as good on this issue as Neil Kinnock. Another serious politician of yesteryear.
Most of this Tory mob of thieves and beggars could only dream of being described as even third rate.
A "serious politician" who never managed to convince an electorate that he should lead his country?
@@davetdowell with respect.... I think you are missing the point. Unless of course you have the irony filter on.😏
@@davetdowell Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them. If Neil Kinnock had been Labour leader at the general election John Major lost due to sleaze, Kinnock would have won it just the same as Tony Blair did.
And there was I thinking Brexit was more about getting out before the anti-tax avoidance directive was introduced and about hatred against foreigners... .
maaaaan them foriegners really fucking up Britain and its heritage and culture. sad times! raping young white girls coming to a town near you..unless you live in london. birmingham. telford.bradford.luton.Leicester then its already destroyed it
Uhhmm, well Torre 6721 , it was all about that tax avoidance directive, all these rich peoples who suddenly had to fear that their unlawful shemes where getting out out on a table for everybody to see what lying bastards they are in reality, so they called their MP or some other people in a Position of power, and voila , you got blindsided , cheated and generally gaslighted. And a lot of Brits, bring dumb as donkeys in a icecreamshop just believed all that crap. And now there you go..
@@leewatts1570 what a racist rant
One was the real, if nefarious and shamefully selfish, reason, the other the carrot with which to lure the plebs. But then, they needed an official reason, too, right?
@@markbriten6999but wasn't that the main reason the Brits voted brexit? The get rid of all the foreigns? And EU regulations?
I always giggle at the democratic deficit argument and the obsession with those elected, when a lot of our negotiations were handled by the now Lord Frost...never been elected ever...
Especially when made by Brexiteers. Making the EU "more democratic" would most likely lead to the member states giving up some sovereignty...not really something Brexiteers would have wanted
@@TheSoleGOAT Quite right too. The EU is run on an old german foreign policy model called Limited Sovereignty. It's not about independent nations.
Because he was a negotiator instructed by the UK government.
@TheSoleGOAT How can it be more Democratic when only 1 out of 28 of the council members were elected by UK citizens whereas in the UK Parliament all the members are elected by UK citizens, and each member can be voted out by a UK citizen.
@@jmccullough662 Did you even read my comment? I never said the EU was more democratic than the UK. I said that in order for the EU to be more democratic, the member countries would have to give up further sovereignty which is not something Brexiteers would have wanted. Therefore Brexiteers can't really make that argument.
On a national level different political interests are represented by different parties. The shares of seats in Parliament for each party are decided by general elections. The members of parliament decide how a government is formed.
The challenge for the European Union and its institutions are quite higher because together with representing different political interests the different national interests of sovereign member states have to be respected and taken into consideration too - in every EU institution.
From that point of view the EU isn't a perfect system yet it still is an admireably and surprisingly good one.
Especially if you are an also ran MP who has made a nice living out of the EU thank you very much.
@@johnlocke6506Are you talking about Farage, who got himself elected to the EP without ever putting any effort to deliver for his voters?
@@karstenschuhmann8334 No wonder Brexiters are feeling victimised when people like you point out such uncomfortable facts.😉 I suspect that that disgusting travesty of a politician is also enjoying a nice pension. Surprised that the Mail, Express et al aren’t headlining Farage’s ride on “the EU gravy train”? Oh no, that’s just for people like the Kinnocks, genuine public servants who’ve devoted their working lives to politics and have genuine achievements to be proud of, not for self-interested rabble-rousers.
@@johnlocke6506 every parliamentarian in every parliament can be expected to earn a salary. Are you surprised?
@@johnlocke6506 Trolling? MP salary and expenses. Your point is largely redundant since it is about relative benefits.
That, by Neil Kinnock, is a concise, precise and accurate and very easily understandable description of how the EU is constructed, structured and administered.
One other thing about Mr. Kinnock’s description herein is that it is so far removed from the lying, criminal, despicable utterances of the likes of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois et al, about the same subject, The EU.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
@@chrislambert9435Oh dear, it's you again. And again I say, so what?
Any "democracy deficit" in the EU was always just a talking point of people in the UK who know nothing about the EU and generally tend towards authoritarian, nationalistic views.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
@@chrislambert9435 how many times have you pasted this comment today, bot?
So, people who want democracy "tend towards authoritarian, nationalistic views". If you don't like democracy, just say so.
@@patrickneylan People who SAY they want (more) democracy*
@@patrickneylan have you voted for Sunak ? for the dumb blonde before him ? for the red nose liar clown before her ?... did you vote for any of your leaders from the House of Lords ? did you vote at all, except for brxshit?
....oh, I know, ... you DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED CHARLES ....right ?...
Great speech by kinnock and 100% correct
Not that democracy is improving in the UK
Democracy is made stronger for citizens states in EU because of laws inforced for the protection and prosperity of such member countries, for example, workers rights, asylum protection and most of all the biggest trading bloc in the world. Britian was once a very senior member of the EEC later the EU, most of the laws, rules and general framework of the present EU were framed by Britian, Britain was at its most powerful and prosperous state inside Europe not outside. There is little doubt that EU will expand, quite a few countries waiting for accession, Ukraine etc. The smartest move now is a referendum so that the UK can retake its place as a rule maker, instead of solely a rule taker.
@@edwardbrady5843 " so that the UK can retake its place as a rule maker"
See you in approx. 20 years or so!
@@edwardbrady5843 the UK can never "rejoin". The EU that you left has moved on. The rules have changed so much that you cannot even apply to join. The british populace needs to read more EU papers to understand the new rules. All you read in the UK papers is about this "Megan and Harry" rubbish.
@@batcollins3714 True, certainly need to educate themselves on the rules, especially those pretending to be polititions . Having your cake and eating it, oh and my favourite, they need us more than we need them attitude, will need to change 😂
@@marinusvos probably.
Bravo pour cette explication brillante. No patronizing of Brexiters but sometimes the truth is better than clichés (Bent bananas, EUSSR, etc). Every country could move towards more democracy and the UK is one (one un-elected chamber, no written constitution, simple majority to change fondamental laws in the UK, no real punishment for lying in Parliament, etc).
You've summed it up, quite siccinctly.
And don't forget the unelected head of state with true power and immense fortune.
That's a common misconception people have. The UK has a written constitution. The idea a constitution should be in one single document is a fairly recent idea, mostly thanks to the weight of American cultural influence. The UK has an uncodified constitution.
@@Halbared In theory, you are right BUT any simple majority can change it so in reality, the UK is naked (no constitution) when handled by the extreme right wing brexit government). In other countries, modifying the constitution requires 3/5 of the votes of both elected chambers.
@@johnjeanb In practise the weight of the history of the UK's constitution prevents any large changes that would rumple too many people simultaneously. The social contract between parliament and the people.Changes occur organically. I prefer the UK system to the US one myself.
Amazing! That's what I call public speaking.. If we miss UK presence in the EU it would have to be for serious old school politicians like mr Kinnock 👍
You mean a crook?
but we in the EU are lucky, we dont miss them at all!
@@Arltratlo I've just come back from a European capital I last visited 25 years ago. It's fell in to a decline of beggars, drug addicts and pick pockets. And that seems to be the norm for European cities. The EU is a failure. What good did it bring? EU, the destroyer of countries.
@@Arltratlo🖐️👍👍👍
@@DudeSilad Sounds you described London and just forgot where you were xD
Absolutely brilliant
the thing is the majority of our local councils in the UK are set up in a similar way,there's an executive,a day to day functioning administration body and an elected chamber so I don't know what it is with these people who bang on about a "democratic deficit" within the EU because if that's what they hang on to then why aren't they calling for referendums to decide whether we want to leave or remain with our local authorities
local elections are quite helpful.
Well if you dont know, that proves it, its a Federal Project
I find myself wondering how many of the labour shadows could be so clear and explanatory? I knew this from prior googling, that the EU is, if anything, more democratic than the UK, but have never heard it laid out so clearly.
Perfect speech Lord Kinnock!
Hi Max, He did a good interview on times Radio about three weeks back.. Worth a watch if you haven’t seen it.
@@col.hertford9855 left talking to the left.
The Times is not now nor was it ever left.
That paper is a Murdoch vehicle, you know, the one behind Fox news, that was just questioned under oath about Fox’s support for Trump’s election lies.
You seriously need your political compass recalibrated, learn about actual socialism before spouting nonsense about it.
@@LeafHuntress it was an odd thing for them to say. The interview was interesting though. The time’s do some good interviews, their opinion pieces tend to be rather less balanced.
@@LeafHuntress Times is a rabid globalist
and fanatically Remain paper.
He said it as if he was explaining the Brexit reality to a 5 year old, wonder if a Brexiteer can understand that?
To be fair to Lord Kinnock I think, he did say he was trying not to be patronising.
Obviously no, they dont understand and never will understood what is was really abou!!!!
They don't want to.
Says the condecending hate spewing supremacist. Trust me dude, you're as thick as two short planks compared to quite a few of us.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
A stunningly excellent and concise speech here by an 80 year old Neil Kinnock showing precisely that he is still a politician at the top of his game.
He'd a career politician who's made millions out of the tax payers of this country including covering up corruption in the eu
2002...Marthea Andreasen exposed EU fraud and corruption.
He sacked her.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
Excellent speech from Neil Kinnock.
EU my fxxxxxg taxes millionaire
He is still getting his pension from Eu 4.4 million he must have worked hard for that
Hypocrisy.
The EU likes to stick its stupid face into UK business though, doesn't it?
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that its a Federal project
As a good friend of mine in Germany said at the time of the Brexit vote - “ Out is out “ - he is right - end of story !
😡 Nostradamus is alive and well . . . 🤮!
And I suspect a lot of people in the EU are thinking: "Good riddance." DeGaulle warned about admitting GB way back in the '60s.
@@LonnieHalouska Maybe if DeGaulle hadn't had been so arrogant in his 'non' to EEC membership (keep in mind that the UK gave him safety in WW2) then maybe the Brits would have had a more positive experience with the EU.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
BUT, WERE NOT COMPLETELY OUT ARE WE YOU IDIOT. ECHR to name one bond...
Neil's giving the question asker too much respect here. I think most Brexiters just need to know:
European Council: Elected members of state from EU countries.
European Parliament: Separately elected MEPs from EU countries.
Laws are passed: when the above separately elected bodies agree.
European Commission: As the name suggested, they are commissioned to do things for the EUC and EUP, like draft laws etc. They are a Civil service with no power.
Democratic Deficit: A term used to describe voter apathy, not any lack of democracy in the EU.
Is is a lack of knowledge of these five facts that Farage et al relied on to spin their web of lies about "unelected" eurocrats. The EU are actually more democratic than anywhere else in the world.
Brexiteers response: Yeah, but you WOULD say that, wouldn't you? I don't believe it, because it doesn't fit with my prejudices, and I'm not going to do ANY research on the subject because a) my opinions are based on belief, not your silly facts, and b) I'm scared, but I'm going to turn that fear into rage.
@@peterclarke7240 bilge.
@@normanchristie4524 Really? Where have YOU been? 🤣
Anyone who's still a brexiteer isn't listening, and anyone who voted for Brexit also wasn't listening.
I don't care.
The EU can take a hike.
Keep its nose out of OUR business.
What Astonishing deception, Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
The guy should be more concerned with the democratic Deficit in the UK. It is far less democratic than the EU.
What Kinnock is saying is what I've been saying forever!
Kinnock was saying it for years too and I utterly agree with it. But I don’t think most brexiteers I’ve spoken with would disagree with him either. They just didn’t want foreigners having a say over laws in the UK and the home nations. Weather it’s those concerned with sovereignty or Racism or somewhere in between. It boils down to that.
@@col.hertford9855 😠 Really? Government X decides that murder is wrong. Why would another government decide otherwise? Now 27 sovereign governments of 28 decide murder is wrong, but one sovereign government of 28 has a hissy fit. Is that acceptable to you?
He may have said it, you may have said but it really doesn’t matter. The simple fact is not ONE British voter voted FOR the EU. This is a fact . It was foisted on the UK in 1992 without reference to the public. Which is just the way the EU likes to operate via the Council of Ministers and the Commission. The EU is essentially a Kinnock family business and have become fabulously wealthy in due course. I’d be more impressed if he spoke about his journey from sceptic( Deputy Leader under Foot) who fought a GE in 1983 on leaving the then EEC?🤷🏻🤦🏻♂️
@@garrywynne1218 WTF? What exactly is this Kinnock family business that has become fabulously wealthy?
@@billfromgermany - after being vehemently against the EEC and then losing the GE to John Major he became a sudden cause nevertheless and was made a Commissioner. His wife became and MEP and then MP as did his son ( Stephen) who was a researcher in the EP worked for WEF . The family connections have ensured they are now very comfortably off . You should check it out .
But of course Brexiteers will not understand this fantastic explanation
the only thing that brexiteers understand is the pub menu at Wetherspoon's
The Brexiteers, as usual were pointing their fingers in their ears and saying lalalala.
@@ianwheeler7513 They think its funny when the fingertips meet halfway inside the empty space in theuir headss.
@@trident6547 lol
My experience is many did understand this. They just didn’t want foreigners involved in UK laws.
He just summarised what the British press has for 30 years and more prevented the British people from understanding. Worse still is that they campaigned against unelected officials, when they knew that they exactly the same as unelected civil servants in the U.K. and were, as in the U.K., servants of the elected houses of government.
The U.K. has no say at all on the EU, it’s laws, policies or regulations. Beforehand the U.K. had an outsized influence in all three areas. In fact more than any other EU country the U.K. proposed and drafted more EU instruments than any other. These are the same instruments that it is abolishing right now.
Brexit was a triumph of emotions over facts. But the facts remain and the real consequences flow from facts. While emotions shift, morph and bred new emotions that foment more division.
And just as we get no say over what civil servants (in the UK) do (only the people we elect do) we have no control over what EU officials do. And once they've put a policy in place, it will be in place no matter who we elect (unlike the Civil Service, who have to do what the government of the day say). So not democratic in anyway.
Youve had 2 unelected leaders now & your worried about democracy in europe?
"The degree of democracy beyond the Channel, It's not you business anymore" - Well said !
By the way, some people within UK will have to find other scapegoats...
it is none of our business and we dont care about them over the channel either
@@c.guibbs1238 I'd rather we didn't trade with the EU wherever possible
@@stephenpockley5665
Even the Swiss and Norwegians trade with EU...You can't ignore your neighbours !
@@c.guibbs1238 so what? I don't care what other countries do to be honest , but anything that hurts EU trade I'm all for
@@stephenpockley5665
Even if that hurts those many of your compatriots who deal with EU ? Are you selfish or just stupid....or maybe both ?
Time you did get this on here. It was an excellent explanation (too eloquent for the dummies of course) of the democracy in the EU.
The problem is not the "function" its the fact that the EU is a Federal Project
@@chrislambert9435 explain what you mean as if I’m naive..?
@@chrislambert9435 And? That's all down to every member state's willingness to embark on anything like that. And countries can leave, as the UK has now proven to everybody.
@@ascgazz I think he might be referring to the functionalist principle of EU integration, as in there is only more intergration in the EU when it has been proven that less integration does not work.
But then, I might be interpreting his words wrongly...
@@samhartford8677 you guessing what he means is not him explaining what he means, cheers though.
I still want him to prove he’s intelligent enough to support whatever he’s trying to say though.
52.5% voters in Wales chose to leave the EU pal...so it's none of his business 😛
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
No doubt @chrislambert9435 will be along to remind everyone that the EU is (shock, horror) a Federal Project.
A powerful response. Dear Brexiteers in the UK, the EU is no longer any concern of yours!
Why do they keep obsessing over the EU? UK left and all they do is whinge about the EU, when they aren't whinging about NI. Do something for your own country and forget about the EU.
So butt out of our business then.
@@sadjaxx Because Brexit is basic identity politics: it's based on victimhood. Victimhood needs an oppressor.
The alternative for many in the UK is to accept their problems are a UK issue. If they accept this they have to accept the responsibility for dealing with their problems and that's hard work.
Thank christ for that
@@Korschtal
Come off it mass uncontrolled immigration from the EU, pumping money onto corrupt EU countries, that's our fault is it
Well said.
What a fantastic and absolutely lucid explanation! Bravo to this man.
Neil Kinnock, as I remmenber him, was always the down to earth type.
@@Bishka100 Very down to earth (or sand) on the opening credits of Spitting Image.
He might have made a decent PM.
Shame he has always been in the Eu pocket
@@lesleystewart5882 You mean always looking to future with reason and logic. Doesn't fall for the Brexit bullshit.
@@lesleystewart5882 Evidence or silence, worm.
Wonder if Neil has any views on Noordstream when he talks about the EU.
Good clear explanation . I would rather be in the tent peeing out than outside the tent trying to pee in .......................we are
way , way ouside the tent and it is getting colder and more lonely and isolated . WRECKSIT .
I don't know this gentleman but he speaks very plainly and directly. He makes sense.
He was the Labour party leader before Tony Blair (ignoring John Smith who was in post only briefly) and lost two general elections. Neil Kinnock started many of the reforms of the Labour party that ultimately lead to it being electable again. It's just a shame he never became PM himself.
I may have had the general election sequence a bit wrong, so I've edited my original comment to be less specific. It'll be on wikipedia if anyone wants to know for certain.
Brexiteers learning the lesson the hard way.
Brexiteers dont learn, they know it all.
@@batcollins3714 true. But deep inside they know that brexit is nonsense. Their desperation is almost palpable. They will struggle more and more to defend their growing fiasco
Never will be back in Eu in his lifetime, you would think he would rather be appreciating his retirement with his wife.
The brexit Paradox is that any govt capable of delivering brexit wouldn't. The brexit reality is that voters clever enough to decode brexit would reject it.
An informed electorate is the last thing the Brexit mongers wanted.
Absolutely spot on
Well said Baron Kinnock of Bedwellty and Former Vice President of the European Commission. That you should forgo your principles and accept a Life Peerage, in order to school us on the horrors of undemocratic establishments, should be a lesson to us all! 🤔
You can't attack the argument so you attack the man. Slow hand clap. 👋
@@giffordgarry6787 You are absolutely right. It's almost as if I need someone, without vested interests, to explain democratic deficiency to me?! Random hand gesture... 🤙
@@pauldean7445 You take advice and facts off people with vested interests all the time, everyone does. What I'm saying is you refuse to take Kinnock's on a solely personal level because all he stated was the facts on how the EU is set up.
Meanwhile you lot are giving a full PM's pension to Liz Truss who was only in the job for 40 days.
It's almost like the country with the largest unelected second chamber in the world should keep its mouth shut about democratic deficiency.
@@giffordgarry6787 Genuinely agree with you on this point... Problem is, whether it's the House of Lords or the EU Commision, what is required is less bureaucracy and more accountability.
No wonder he holds no office...he tells the truth, he avoids insults and patronizing language, and he knows what he's talking about. No one votes for a politician like that.
...and the commission even needs to be approved by the EU parliament.
I was also applauding! Afterwards I clicked on the link and followed the whole discussion. Neil's argument was the last part of the super interesting 1:15h discussion. I applauded again😀
Some people have made a lot of money out us being in the eu, that's why they love being in it so much
Like Kinnock himself. Unable to become PM in the UK he reaped his reward for changing the Labour party's stance from anti-Europe to Pro-Europe. Remember the young and future warmongering mass murderer Blair stood in his first election as an MP on an 'out of europe' ticket; it was official Labour policy at the time.
Kinnocks career as an EU commissioner was marked by sleaze. His entire Commission had to stand down on a corruption scandal, only to be miraculously reinstated some 48 hrs later.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
Feeling slightly embarrassed to say that i used to regard Kinnock as something of a caricature... After this I would change this description to Statesman.
You could even say that same of John Major and Michael Heseltine.
Bet whoever asked it thought it was a real gotcha question.
He could have said it louder but not cleared. UK get lost and forget about the EU.
This guy still going strong, good for hi
A UK citizen commenting on EU democratic 'deficit' while living within an archaic type of 'democracy' consisting of an unelected House of Lords: once appointed they effectively sit for life and attend more or less when they wish, never facing re-appointment, nor of course any form of re-election. Please.
not even appointed, they even inherit their seat.
It is indicative of our times when you have to apologize and give a trigger warning before you teach facts to people, as Kinnock did here.
Perfect explanation. The policy developed by the commission can only happen if the council approves them.
And the Parliament approves them and all the individual member Governments and other voting entities agree.
Old Windbag did always have a way with words. Ok he’s s bit verbose but what he says is spot-on. A great explanation of the EU.
@@massivehero4871 Except that you haven't addressed a single point he made Massive. All you have done is air your own half baked opinion.
Or simply a "silly arse"! depending on whether one supports the DEMOCRATIC UE, as opposed to an UNDEMOCRATIC Britain. Those who believe the old chestnut of UE being run by unelected people, should perhaps check the facts BEFORE opening their ill informed gobs !
@@massivehero4871 Point out what he said wrong then. Unless you can, it's a case of shoot the messenger, which is lazy.
I'm no fan of Kinnock, not least because of his disgusting opinions about the Welsh nation and Welsh language, but even a rotten broken old clock is right twice a day!
@@massivehero4871 If there are no arguments slander the man. That's your recipe.
He's not verbose. From another person's mouth the same criticism would not be made. It is a right wing cliche used against him since the 1980s. Must be his accent, in which case subconscious or overt prejudice against the Welsh may be behind many of his critics bogus claims of him being verbose.
Brilliant comment. Deserves wide resharing
thanks for clarifying that Neil. want no part of it after your clear explanation.
Just remember to point the pistol so that the muzzle is facing down. After all, I'm sure you'd much rather shoot yourself in the foot than your head. I mean, that would be really silly, wouldn't it.
Then you're a fool.
Nailed it!
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
As soon as someone says "unelected Brussels buearocrat" I know they don't have a clue what they are talking about!
Wow - we certainly dodged a bullet when we didn't elect him as PM!
😂
The only thing missing in this clip is he standing up and dropping the mic. Boom
Heseltine, and now Kinnock - talking Brexit sense.
Not the bollocks we get from Moggy, ERG clowns, et al.
I wonder if Neil Kinnock's fervent support for the EU has anything to do with the vast remuneration package the Kinnocks have received from the EU coffers? In excess of some ten million pounds, no less. Just a thought.
I'm sure it does. That doesn't challenge any of the things he said, though.
yet they still can't satisfactorily answer the five questions of power put by Tony Benn.
What Power Have You Got?
Where Did You Get It From?
In Whose Interests Do You Exercise It?
To Whom Are You Accountable?
How Can We Get Rid Of You?
And that is why many voted to leave.
Ask him when was the last time they audited there books ..answer they do but when she found loads of money missing and could not find out where it went she asked and she was sacked. In fact there books have never been passed in audit ..
And, obviously you have proof that any of this happened?
I'll wait.
Try replacing EU with UK and see if you get a different result.
Kinnocks come a long way from his manifesto to leave the EU , especially after taking their coin. He also fails to mention that the EU Parliament cannot propose its own legislation and can only suggest changes …. Which are never adopted.
He is on the payroll now.
What Astonishing deception, Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
Never? Sure of that, are you?
'It is no accident that the European parliament, once instituted to give the European Union a semblance of democratic accountability, lacked the capacity to legislate'. (Yanis Varoufakis)
No doubt. Considering the bright lights that the UK used to elect as their MEPs.
@@Sweedtrader I would be interested to see how many of the 'happy, smiling people' who make up the electorate of the European Parliament, can name their M.E.P? Or even their national members of the EU Commission? As democracies go, it's a farce, designed just to give the population the idea it's democratic, instead of being run by the Bundesbank & to a lesser degree, Paris.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
Are you sure that you really want to quote Mr Varoufakis about anything?
Absolutely certain. There is much in what he says with which I don't agree, but he is a highly qualified/experienced economist, who has seen how the E.C.B. & the Bundesbank work, & whom they benefit.
I would recommend Joseph Stiglitz - another economist of even greater credentials who - by & large - comes to the same conclusions.
I try not to be overly influenced by the accounts of how much Greece's problems were self-inflicted, more on how those who were supposed to alleviate the problems seemed to be acting in their own interests, & making things worse.
@@petergaskin1811
well said!
The guy sounds pissed!
Good assessment, and perfectly correct.
👏👏
Spot on! As a Polish National 🇵🇱 from my perspective I can tell that Brexit did no good to EU either, that's for sure. I hope you guys will find your way back in somehow, someday!
Why would we,? 🤣
I disagree, the best thing that could of happened to the EU was Brexit, I can tell you now that many a country would veto their return.
@@tasscoral7898
.
Thank God! 30 years of piss poor growth in the EU regime is more than enough for the UK.
Time to rejoin the free world where free trade is really free.
@@remoanersrknts6736 Right. Because look at us now. Pfft
@@tezhug1890
What are you referring to? ... 2 years of lockdown and the economy brought to a standstill or high inflation due to war in Ukraine?
Brilliant put down, well done sir!
All the Quitlings who bleat about "unelected bureaucrats" or "democratic deficit" in the EU should be tied to a chair for 3 minutes 39 seconds to watch this, and then asked again if they are so stupid as to think the same.
Meanwhile there are some choice "democratic deficits" in the UK...... Obsolete first past the post electoral system, unelected higher chamber of Parliament, not permitting several hundred thousand Brits in the EU to vote in the 2016 "referendum because of the 15 year disenfranchisement rule, that non binding referendum which suddenly became binding by magic overnight, lack of a written Constitution, and a lack of effective control of party funding and an independent free media, for example.
Do the Quitlings have any answers to these, please?
Neither is UK politics any of the EU's damn business.
But it is our Business. We are in no way a Democracy. It's well past time that our politics was completely overhauled.
I remember when British politicians used to be intelligent, well informed and competent, as shown here by Neil Kinnock. The present lot do not seem to know what they're doing.
Neil Kinnock was far from being intelligent, & competent . Actually I`d say he was the exact opposite.
@@tommytitmouseMaybe you don't understand him.
@@annedunne4526 I could bounce that comment back to you.
People don't want intelligent, knowledgeable, ethical, or honest. We're all headed for conflict
@@tommytitmouse Please do not attempt to operate heavy machinery in your current state. Your lack of intelligence is almost overwhelming.
You know...
In fact, who cares, go ahead, operate anything you want. I think we can afford to lose you.
Ah yes, Neil Kinnock - voted against the EU at every chance then accepted a role as EU Commissioner and came back a multi-millionaire. Isn't EU Democracy wonderful?
So likewise our business isn't anything to do with the EU. They seem not to comprehend this.
We really don’t care anymore since the UK left the union.
Name checks out
don't get me wrong, yes, the answer is correct. I just would wish the council of Ministers would be even more democratic, would find a way to represent those who are not part of their respective national government, but, of course, this has to happen without the UK.
What deception, Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
'A parliament is sovereign even if it is not particularly powerful, when it can dismiss the executive. Nothing like this exists in the Eurozone today'. (Yanis Varoufakis).
Thank you.
I'm always amazed at those critics of the EU that make this complaint about the lack of democracy in the EU. Instead of looking across the channel, they should glance behind at a country where we don't elect the head of state, no one in the House of Lords and we don't elect the Prime Minister. When we do get a chance to vote in a general election, unless you vote for the winning candidate, your vote is ignored.
And that is so eminent important: Your vote is ignored!
@@Harryset1 in many constituencies your vote is meaningless. The same party pretty well always wins
@@markbriten6999 I see. That fact would make me - as a person - and a voter very angry. Thx for your reply - have a good day Sir.
@@Harryset1 you too
Every EU member is in debt why should EU citizens move anywhere and be a drain on a country
If only what he is spouting had any semblance of Truth or could be administered without political gerrymandering
Of course he stands up for the EU he and his wife are living the good life on fat pensions from them.
So is Farage but that didn't shut him up.
100k per year.
@@stiofain88 Kinnock was a devout EU sceptic.
Hear, hear! Well said, Mr. Kinnock!
There is no deficit of democracy in the EU, possibly that the country governments has to much power vs. the parliament
Small correction at 2:14: correct is, to say: "when the Commission decides that the law has to be enforced, the Commission enforces the law", rather than the Council. All in all, brilliant explanation indeed.
He is 80 now and still brilliant
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that the EU is a Federal project
@@chrislambert9435 you need to explain why YOU think that’s so terrible you gave to paste the same comment all over the place?
Bot much?
@@ascgazz I have to repeat it, so many times, to get it into the thick heads of the remoaners
@@chrislambert9435 And, again, I say, who cares? You've managed to get us out of the EU. Do you have to keep whining about the EU?
Hear hear Mr Kinnock!
Brilliant explanation.
Except Neil Kinnock failed to mention that its a Federal project