I play both hitbox and stick and I equally like both. IMO hitbox shouldn’t get all the controversy cause that ain’t gonna make you magically more skilled than your opponent. Plus it’s less intuitive than stick and good luck with pretzel motions or 720s.
@@wavetime3651 "Plus it’s less intuitive than stick and good luck with pretzel motions or 720s." This is such a flimsy justification. Yes, certain motions are going to be more awkward, but not every character has pretzel or 720 moves. In fact, I would bet that majority of fighting game characters don't have those motions. Not to mention, poverty players have been using keyboard for a long time doing those motions with great success. This difficulty ceiling argument is not a good one when fighting games are literally about training yourself to **maximize the potential** of your characters and that goes hand-in-hand with execution barrier. Have you seriously not seen what top level players can do that was once deemed "too difficult"? If there's a high, but eventually reachable ceiling someone WILL reach it. It's basic human history. Or am I supposed to believe all Hitbox defenders are inexperienced FGC newbies? I highly doubt that. It's a bad faith argument and I say that as someone who has no horse in this race.
@@mustie3492 that the controller in this video will give ppl a edge over the competition, And a cpl days ago Pro SF5 player Daigo was told he can no longer use it.
@@rxraider4778 he was using the hitbox crossfire. Which has a stick, and directional buttons. It also accepts multiple directional inputs at once. Regular hitboxes like this are completely legal
This looks awesome, like a keyboard mod. Used to play a lot of fighting games on keyboard since 2001. The only thing I didn't like on the KB is full 360 motions.
The only reason we use a stick in arcades and now on consoles is because some guy way back when was just like lets use a stick instead of buttons. Maybe this is actually the next stage for how fighting games should be played and the stick and pad are actually flawed and we just never realized it til now. And now that you are finally using this item and are seeing just how easy it is to use it, you think it's cheap when in all actuality this is what should have been used for fighting games since the beginning.
I grew up playing fighting games on a keyboard because I never had money to buy a console so I only had emulators and a computer keyboard. When I became an adult with a job I got consoles and discovered what gamepads and arcade sticks were for fighting games. I never understood why someone would prefer arcade sticks or control pads to a keyboard. The motions necessary require so much less effort and are so much more precise on a keyboard than with an arcade stick. Loving the Hitbox and I'm glad someone did it because I was about to do it for myself. I'm intending to reverse it, though. Putting UDLR on the right side and button the buttons on the other side to match more with how I play on a keyboard.
This is what I'm doing too. Back then, the fgc laughed at keyboard warriors, esp during the launch of vanilla SFIV. Now look at the hitbox, which is just a glorified keyboard. I'll stick with mechanical keyboards and use them in tournaments.
Should execution be removed from Basketball as well? How about Archery? I think many people are missing my point. It's not that something is easy or hard on one or the other. It's that there is no standard for competitive fighting games because there is no governing body to enforce rules. Even if HitBox is not a big deal and doesn't need to be banned. Where do we draw the line? Anyway, please continue.
Here's the thing. If someone is using a HitBox, and they're doing crazy stuff, what's stopping YOU from using one? Why ban something that you can go get for yourself when the chances are you're spending more money on the arcade stick you're using? And the thing you said about being able to do stuff on it that is "inhuman" on a stick, is kind of not valid. The game is input, so you can do basically anything you want, just won't be easy. You can do standing 720s on a stick, just isn't easy. I don't know, I don't see a problem fighting with one of these. Whatever boats your float, I guess.
It's surprising to hear his opinion on it. It's not a turbo button. The only "cheating" could be the ability to hit two directions at once, but this can be programmed out and enforced by tournament officials. Aris is just pissed that he likes sticks and will become a dinosaur.
the most funny thing is none of people who dislike this video are good enough for competitive tournament anyway, no matter they using hitbox or not lol
To put it nicely, his argument is invalid as the hit box is designed for fighting games whereas traditional arcade sticks are also designed for fighting games. A baseball bat is designed for baseball, not fucken tennis.
I like it even more how he is mentioning the fucked up DJHero controller. If someone goes to a tournament with that thing and beats my ass, the only thing I'm gonna do is empty my bank account, give it all to that one guy and go kill myself because I can't bare the shame. Would I ban the fuckin' scratch-controller? What am I fucking retarded? Hell nah...
plus, the availability of it is about the same as a typical tournament arcade stick. if you have a Madcatz TE and are familiar with modding, you can actually buy a panel to use a Hitbox layout, but you'd also have to mod the PCB to eliminate SOCD presses.
I keep hearing the comparison to pads and how you cant do things like that on pad but you can? Triple and double inputs are still a button vs having to return to neutral on a stick no?
I like how he started out unbiased and civilized then he de-evolved into attacking what he felt was personally attacking the honor of the days of arcades gone by. But I believe this is why people love Aris.
I was playing fighting games on my emulators since early 2000, before I discovered usb game pads I used a keyboard and programmed the buttons to my liking. It took a little getting use to the controls (because I'm a console gamer), but I eventually figured it out. I now play against people who have controllers/joysticks and still manage hold my own with a keyboard, should I be band from tournaments if I play with something I'm comfortable playing with? Training makes you good, not the device.
Aris: I bought a hitbox after seeing the Kabal shit and figured out an even easier way to chain gas blasts. You can literally hold the jump button and double tap back, back + 1 over and over to keep gas blasts insanely close to the ground. XXZ did projectile DPS data on the whole cast and found out that Kabal is capable of outputting 19% DPS with IAGB's. 2nd place is Sindel at 11% DPS, the only difference between Kabal and Sindel is she sacrifices an up close game to be a zoning character.
To add to the previous post. A couple guys in our VF scene picked this up and can do Perfect Giant Swings and other stuff they had difficulty doing on a stick. Now they can do it, it opened up more options to them, however because it's VF, you can shut down those new options that are opened up, making this thing just another device to use for fighting games. Now it comes down to preference of controller, nothing really changed.
I imagine it would be ridiculous with SF as well. Before 3sOE came out, I was playing 3s on GGPO using my keyboard. Using WASD as my movement keys, I could drum out semicircle movements (ie Dudley's Machine Gun Blow) and most double quartercircle supers, almost instantly. Most notably, Ibuki's Kasumi Suzaku can be pulled off almost as soon as you jump off the ground. No one expects that shit.
well when fighting games are released on PC's you cant ban the controller that comes with a PC (keyboard), and that thing is basically a keyboard, same argument as not banning pads
I like this device, I've made one for myself, and now able to beat top Tekken players of my City! I've been playing Tekken since last 8 years, but was hardly able to release qcf with an arcade stick, but this device is perfect for me, I can easily make qcf and f,qcf+4 or 1+2 move of king frequently! will try your triple tap technique for shining wizard though
I know this review is ancient. But I'm getting a Hitbox anyway. I went from Pad to Stick and realized there's things the stick can do easily that the pad struggles with. Hitbox is another step up.
I think the fundamental problem is that most games are not properly balanced for HitBoxes. There's just too many broken tactics that are impossible on stick but trivial on a HitBox.
MrScottyTay Sorry, let me rephrase: they are not literally impossible on stick, just ridiculously difficult (and likewise for dpad). However, Hitbox makes them easy. I am referring to things like halfscreen instant double-jump overheads with UMVC3 Strider.
Yeah that's probably the only case that can really be made against hitbox, but because it's not impossible to do on stick or pad, it's not solid enough of an argument to get hitboxes banned. Honestly it just seems like a superior controller for fighting games, but I doubt it'll ever catch on because people hate change
Sorry for the late response. In Street Fighter and other similar games, you have to stand to block most jump attacks and you can block most ground attacks while crouching. However, in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Strider Hiryu (one of the characters in the game) can do a VERY low, very fast jump attack (that leads into a big combo) from as far as half a screen away; this tactic is extremely difficult (and fairly risky) on a controller/joystick, but easy and simple on a Hitbox. So the end result is that when you're using a Hitbox, your opponent doesn't really have time to react to attacks that must be blocked while standing or blocked while crouching. The defender basically has to guess.
Should be banned? That's laughable. Having never used one nor do I know anyone that uses one and basing this opinion based on your video alone, that's an extreme opinion based on tradition. Tradition is that fighting games are played on sticks, anything else is unacceptable. Yet there would be no reason for this control scheme not to be implemented to an arcade unit within the coming years.Having more precise control over your inputs isn't a reason something should be banned, it's a reason for the player base to move onto the more precise control method. But because it's different to current tradition and advantageous (based on the video alone), it should be banned? I think not. Everyone should play on controller or even a keyboard in that case so it's all standard.
Actually, this type of controller was in use back in the SFII days, and they were regularly banned. They were also banned in all Chicago tourneys back in the SC2 days.
And the fact that arcades machine are almost non existent now. Arcade stick are legacy controllers now. Fighting games are released on console and pc now. New generation haven't even played on a real arcade machine. Gampad, keyboard, and hit box are the future.
Excellent review, Aris. I think people are missing the point. Regardless of whether or not the device is actually giving an unfair advantage, players, community and tourney organizers need to pay attention to these types of things and decide about where to draw the line. Evolution of devices is wonderful. I'm sure we all agree players should be welcome to any device they can perform their best with. But not if it gives an unfair advantage.
Sad that everyone thinks this is cheating. Clearly no one here that are bitching and whining have actually played against someone using a tool assist....
I repsectfully disagree. Hitbox takes time to learn and get proficient with just like a joystick. Let the player play with what they are comfortable on.
pad works like a stick tho. so pad is acceptable. fighting games were never meant to be played on a controller were you can press left/right or up/down at the same time. because if you could you can bet they would have used hitbox style controls in the original arcades because having a cabinet with all buttons would have been cheaper to maintain and manufacture over sticks. sticks/ pad controls were used for a reason. im going to assume all mainstream console games were designed in mind to not be using left/right up/down at the same time considering all official controllers do not allow those inputs to be pressed on any d-pad at the same time.
Eh the points he touches on about this are valid, and I agree. I really want one of these, but as far as execution goes, it definitely gives you an unfair advantage. a Standing 720 is easier on a hitbox than it is on a arcade stick. Also all of the shortcuts on SF4/SFxT are easier on hitboxes than they are on arcade stick. I will admit he was hating pretty hard in the end, but from my understanding, he went in on it unbiased in terms of pros and cons go.
Nope, it's not the same thing. It's about how the stick/pad treats the input. I checked up on it and it seems the Hitbox is supposed to interpret: L + R = Neutral; U + D = Up. Thta is fine. With self-made stickless arcade sticks (or by modding the Hitbox) you can make it so that L + R is actually L + R and U + D = U + D. The former would give you perfect guard in MvC3 and the latter would let you block high and low at the same time in Soul Calibur 5. The 360/PS3 pads won't let you do that.
I'm spreading accurate facts... you are just trying to distort what I just said. You are right in one aspect; the hitbox doesn't do anything you can't do in-game with a pad or a stick. BUT! You can not PHYSICALLY press the button for forward and backward at the same time on a pad or a stick, you can push one direction at a time... you can get into neutral as you pointed out, but neutral is a lot easier to access with a hitbox compared to a pad, therefore e.g. backdashing is made easier.
@TheSoliquidus Actually the input is not a left+right since those type of inputs are not allowed on most emulators. The input is actually Fwd, Back, Down + fwd(or some weird combination) at a lightning fast pace that is impossible on stick or pad.
I absolutely agree with this, I used one the other day and played against someone using one. it was ridiculous and a real eye opener of the posibilities that open up with this thing, this either has to be banned, or anyone who wants to compete has to get one. This won't turn bad players good, but it absolutely gives a significant advantage, these motions were designed with the limitations of a joystick in mind, a gamepad has the same limitations and should also be allowed.
It would be interesting to hear if this guy has revised his opinion on Hitboxes. I have a busted left hand and what this guy is saying is that I shouldn't be playing fighting games. Or if i would be allowed to play, then I cant be competitive at it due to a physical limitation. Great.
I don't think he meant to be offensive to anyone who has a physical issue. If you can only play a Hitbox and wanna go to tournaments, mention your hand issue before it gets started to the tournament organizer, so they should be ok with it. If not, they're dicks. lol
I think this referring to people who have no disadvantages, who would take complete advantage of it to win. For example, those motorized scooters with carts in places like Walmart and target. If I see someone that has a broken leg for example using it, it's fine, it's tough to walk and using it helps out. However if I see someone using it who clearly has no disability, Imma see that person as some lazy fuck, and should be walking. Don't get offended by the review, it wasn't aimed at you, but the lazy fucks
i think the up button being at the bottom is actually smart design, since im a pc gamer, weve been accustomed to WASD controls. now obviously if you want the best inputs possible, youd like to use all four buttons at a time, and we also use the spacebar for jump...which just so happens to be up in fighting games
I'm so close to getting this thing, I want the best of the best and this thing may not make me number one, but it could completely change how I play SSF4 AE. Idc what this guy said, I do understand what he's trying to explain as far as the possibilities with this thing, but that's not stopping me at all. At the end of the day, you still have to put practice into the Hitbox just like the arcade stick and the d-pad. It's out there for purchase, and I honestly feel that those who don't at least give this a shot are only limiting themselves from the badass-ery that can be achieved just from a few minutes with this thing. Bottom line, if I beat you with this thing, it's your own fault for not investing in one of your own.
I don't know specifics of how well arcades do in every country so I'm not going to argue. Thing is, many parts of the world don't have influence on the US, and fact of the matter is tournaments aren't played on cabinets, they're played on consoles, so consoles are the standard. Like I said, it's fine that you want to keep the arcade feel, I'm not trying to get everyone to play on a Hit Box, preference is what's important, but arcade isn't the standard and controllers shouldn't be judged by it.
Actually the block both ways thing was an issue with HitBox imitations/hacks. The proper PCB used on the Hitbox will not register both left and right at the same time. If you ask for source, I'm afraid I can't provide it, a Hitbox staff member who frequently posts on 4chan talked about this.
PC Street Fighter player here. I use regular arcade sticks but Hit Box is just like a keyboard. It was a little while before I could get my sticks together and I used a mechanical keyboard. It didn't take me long to realize that WASD was absolutely terrible and I eventually bound up to space, finding I could play pretty well. Much better than a pad. This is just the relevant keyboard keys, replaced with Sanwa arcade buttons in an ergonomic arrangement. As such, I don't find it so innovative.
actually, a usb keyboard slim for $15 is good enough. If you map the keys properly, you can find some areas on the keyboard that will allow 3p/3k simultaneously with motion. Been using the same one for a year now, called the elephant slim keyboard. I've tested some of the keyboards at school that uses USB as well, and I assume it would be the same for ALL generic USB keyboards.
This is not only biased, but it's making a big deal out of something that was already fixed. Official HitBoxes DO NOT ALLOW FOR SIMULTANEOUS LEFT + RIGHT (nor Up + Down). The folks at SRK Tech Talk have made sure that the firmware in the Cthulhu PCBs used in these things filters these out. The only way for a HitBox to allow these is if it has been modified from official spec. If you disagree with this, you can bring it up in SRK's Tech Talk.
I own a hitbox and I don't think it should be banned. My reasoning is that while some things are easier, others are much harder. It's really, really difficult to do 360s or 720s in a game that isn't sf4 (because it's so lenient). Tiger knees, chicken wing/hooligan, and half circles are significantly harder. General movement is harder (it's less intuitive). However, I will admit that it's easier to instant charge, KOF short hop, and DP on this thing. Overall it's not so OP it needs banning.
First of all I am a big fan of your stuff, but I am a bit taken aback by your thoughts on this peripheral. I tried it out myself and it's not for me, but at the same time there's nothing wrong with it. Plinking for SF is a lot easier on a Stick than it is on a pad, that doesn't mean Sticks are broken. Pads allow you to use buttons with your index and middle finger on your left hand, but that isn't considered cheap either. I think natural evolution to accomodate a player's needs is inevitable!
Slide back into forward. B,DB,D,DF,F. Hold back and press down for down-back, hold down and hit forward for down forward. Don't let go of the previous button until you contact the next one.
I have yet to use a hitbox but I am very curious about it after watching this. I like to give something a chance before forming a complete opinion of it but on its face it does not seem unfair. I watched ATPs vid about pad vs stick and hit box seems to have taken the best of both worlds and merged them into a useful hybrid. As someone who uses both a pad and a stick(with an 8 gate) I dont see the problem so far. Its has the directional speed of a pad with the face buttons of a stick.
Using a hitbox at a high level can cut down on input time and makes it more precise. The stick is more precise than the pad, so what's the difference? It's a keyboard. Also to someone else's comment SOCD doesn't allow sloppy 360's and 180's to work because you'd just get neutral. 180's and 360's require proper technique.
jo hu 1.Hitbox has more natural positions on the buttons so you will never mess up and press the wrong thing. 2. Arcade buttons feel better 3. You can drum and piano on a hitbox
i use keyboard from time to time as a hitbox, with similar up down left right button positioning and kicks and punches too... i find it easier than a pad (yeh im using a xbox pad, i kno not the best) but there are some moves which are harder than pad, like kings move when he grabs ur legs swings u arnd and arnd and lets u go, that move on hitbox like positioning is really difficult, idk why, on pad is easier. can u help me solve why is it like that? and also moves similar in movement of player like the kazuya's ..... down - diagonal right down - right + punch (when the opponent goes in the air)
Sure, Aris is hardheaded as always but you guys are missing his point. It's not about making things easier. It's about making the impossible possible. The problem isn't with the control method itself but in the fact that THE GAMES WERE NOT DESIGNED FOR THIS INPUT METHOD. (of a finger per direction) They give moves certain inputs to make sure you commit to them for enough TIME. Like having a 1 button DP would break SF w/o changing the game accordingly, this is the exact same deal with some moves.
@bludika Yes, I was referring to Tekken. If you check out Aris' older vids he has one where he compares a stick to a pad and he talks some about the difficulty back-dash canceling on certain sides of the screen with stick. The fact you find it easier to do on a stick just reinforces my point that the difficulty or ease of use to do things with different peripherals is subjective to the one playing, and you something shouldn't be banned because of someone else's opinion.
There are lots of pad tekken players mainly because, until SF4 was released, finding arcade sticks was not easy and they were in low supply. Now that there is higher demand and supply for arcade sticks, they are far more prevalent in all levels of play, and the Tekken (and 3D fighter community in general) in the West is evolving.
With more and more fighting games not getting arcade releases, console is quickly becoming the standard for fighters. You can preserve arcade culture as long as you want, but especially in the US most people don't care about arcades anymore. If it plugs into my console and doesn't have programmed inputs that play the game for me, it's legit. Arcade culture means nothing to someone who was never a part of it.
We can either ban them OR wait until they drop in price and get more popular , that way with easier execution we can see more people pull of difficult stuff and the games will become more competitive .
This stick is crazy overpowered. It literally gives you an advantage impossible from a stick or pad. In UMvC3 you can hold down-back and up and you'll bunny hop well crouching when you land. Usually you can hit a opponent when they land or during their jump frames, but not with this stick. Also it creates option selects against characters like Zangief, if they attack you, you block, if they go for a grab you jump. Totally broken.
A lot of people getting turnt on an old ass review lol. Currently a pad player but if I keep up this Tekken life the hitbox will see me eventually. Have 20+ years of PC gaming under my belt, there is nothing less scary than transitioning to a keyboard style fight controller, the $200 is far more frightening.
You're right, I agree with what you say, but then doesn't that mean that the HitBox is the equivalent of a pad, but with really conveniently located directional buttons? According to the Hit Box staff, Down + Up will give you up in SSF4, so I'm not sure what you mean by the Zangief option select. Personally, I just don't see this being really game breaking in any way. I just see it as a way to lower the execution, so you can focus more on the thought aspect of the game.
@TheSoliquidus yes, other hitbox players, but the standard on every other device(majority of devices) is the standard cardinal direction: N(top), E(right),S(down),W(left). that directional setup is the same for pad and stick and that should be the standard. also, the fact that the hitbox designer changed that standard means that they saw another advantage. imagine a hitbox with the default cardinal direction layout, or something similar to the keyboard arrows. it's not as effective
and you can't avoid diagonals either on a hitbox. A piano motion doesn't mean you press each direction once and let go of it. If you do it fast enough, chances are you're pressing diagonals as well, no matter what. It's a fast motion, and it's easy to grasp. Personally, I do better circular motions and fast 720s on a dpad, because I just rotate my thumb. I make mistakes performing Q W E SPACE then Q W E SPACE, sometimes accidentally hitting Q before SPACE again since I'm using two hands.
I still use my Xbox controller,and lose almost every time I play off or online and I don't complain. If he don't want it I will gladly take it off his hands.
The moment I heard Aris utter "Power Glove", visions of Tri-Force sitting in a room amid a sea of them getting his hair braided by Harlem harems (purchased with tournament money derived from his minions using this "new and innovative" peripheral to their advantage) danced about my subconscious mind.
Don't really agree with his conclusion (in the sense that I have no opinion whatsoever on competitive gaming regulations), but you're spot on with your keyboard comparison. Back in the DOS days and even on my C64, I used to play fighting games with this sort of "button control" instead of a stick all the time.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
It was cool hearing how Aris' thoughts from 10 years ago are about exactly the same as it was in the recent video.
I play both hitbox and stick and I equally like both. IMO hitbox shouldn’t get all the controversy cause that ain’t gonna make you magically more skilled than your opponent. Plus it’s less intuitive than stick and good luck with pretzel motions or 720s.
@@wavetime3651 top level players don’t care about input difficulty.
@@wavetime3651 someone who isn't good isn't going to become great. It's about players who are already tournament level good.
@@wavetime3651 "Plus it’s less intuitive than stick and good luck with pretzel motions or 720s." This is such a flimsy justification. Yes, certain motions are going to be more awkward, but not every character has pretzel or 720 moves. In fact, I would bet that majority of fighting game characters don't have those motions.
Not to mention, poverty players have been using keyboard for a long time doing those motions with great success. This difficulty ceiling argument is not a good one when fighting games are literally about training yourself to **maximize the potential** of your characters and that goes hand-in-hand with execution barrier. Have you seriously not seen what top level players can do that was once deemed "too difficult"? If there's a high, but eventually reachable ceiling someone WILL reach it. It's basic human history. Or am I supposed to believe all Hitbox defenders are inexperienced FGC newbies? I highly doubt that. It's a bad faith argument and I say that as someone who has no horse in this race.
Aris for president
It's funny. He used to be so nice and polite before he was a twitch streamer.
But now, twitch chat has hardened his heart with bong water.
The jailer is the key.
He was definitely alwas like that.
@@Capreolinax *finger guns
@Marvin Gatlin I've been watching it for decades. On my stone caveman tv.
i know I'm kind of randomly asking but does anybody know of a good site to watch newly released tv shows online ?
And we had to wait for more than 7 years, and Daigo, for the true controversy to begin.
yeah
Is this tournament legal?
@@mustahsanalikhan2221 no
@@diegogatjens1728 stoners... smh
And it's back again lmfao. Goddamned zoomers these days
7 years later and we got a hitbox with a stick on it lol
Sadly no, if both were an option a stick would just be added. It's a completely redesigned.
Quickly went from review to rant
Aris stays real to his words untill today (2022)
not now though lol
7:04 Aris tried to warn us about the cross up, but nobody listen...
Fighting games also come out on PC, where the Hitbox style of playing came from. Just saying. Isent that just banning their peripheral?
no, a hitbox isn't a keyboard
I love this review. It is a classic. I had to come back to watch it after I saw the Cross|up reveal.
Ah yes. This finally gets re-reccomended to me due to recent events and stomping on and placing flags in gods ass
Worth
Aris tried to warn us all, but we didn't listen
Crazy right
@@rxraider4778 warn about what
@@mustie3492 that the controller in this video will give ppl a edge over the competition, And a cpl days ago Pro SF5 player Daigo was told he can no longer use it.
@Carmine twitch runs on IRC
@@rxraider4778 he was using the hitbox crossfire. Which has a stick, and directional buttons. It also accepts multiple directional inputs at once.
Regular hitboxes like this are completely legal
0:46 he hexed the hitbox. This caused the daigo controversy.
This looks awesome, like a keyboard mod. Used to play a lot of fighting games on keyboard since 2001. The only thing I didn't like on the KB is full 360 motions.
The only reason we use a stick in arcades and now on consoles is because some guy way back when was just like lets use a stick instead of buttons.
Maybe this is actually the next stage for how fighting games should be played and the stick and pad are actually flawed and we just never realized it til now.
And now that you are finally using this item and are seeing just how easy it is to use it, you think it's cheap when in all actuality this is what should have been used for fighting games since the beginning.
no
***** hitbox is ugly and if mastered, completely unfair.
***** I think someone won a MK tourn with a hitbox. It was really cheap due to the execution of the hitbox. It's almost like an input MOD
***** exactly! :)
***** and that is why the hitbox is a piece of shit!
I grew up playing fighting games on a keyboard because I never had money to buy a console so I only had emulators and a computer keyboard.
When I became an adult with a job I got consoles and discovered what gamepads and arcade sticks were for fighting games. I never understood why someone would prefer arcade sticks or control pads to a keyboard. The motions necessary require so much less effort and are so much more precise on a keyboard than with an arcade stick.
Loving the Hitbox and I'm glad someone did it because I was about to do it for myself. I'm intending to reverse it, though. Putting UDLR on the right side and button the buttons on the other side to match more with how I play on a keyboard.
This is what I'm doing too. Back then, the fgc laughed at keyboard warriors, esp during the launch of vanilla SFIV. Now look at the hitbox, which is just a glorified keyboard. I'll stick with mechanical keyboards and use them in tournaments.
Should execution be removed from Basketball as well? How about Archery? I think many people are missing my point. It's not that something is easy or hard on one or the other. It's that there is no standard for competitive fighting games because there is no governing body to enforce rules. Even if HitBox is not a big deal and doesn't need to be banned. Where do we draw the line? Anyway, please continue.
I agree like you said especially with while running moves
All those dislikes, but who know a prophecy would be made
Here's the thing. If someone is using a HitBox, and they're doing crazy stuff, what's stopping YOU from using one? Why ban something that you can go get for yourself when the chances are you're spending more money on the arcade stick you're using? And the thing you said about being able to do stuff on it that is "inhuman" on a stick, is kind of not valid. The game is input, so you can do basically anything you want, just won't be easy. You can do standing 720s on a stick, just isn't easy. I don't know, I don't see a problem fighting with one of these. Whatever boats your float, I guess.
It's surprising to hear his opinion on it. It's not a turbo button. The only "cheating" could be the ability to hit two directions at once, but this can be programmed out and enforced by tournament officials. Aris is just pissed that he likes sticks and will become a dinosaur.
Lol imagine someone playing Eddy Gordo on a DDR mat, that would be hilarious.
the most funny thing is none of people who dislike this video are good enough for competitive tournament anyway, no matter they using hitbox or not lol
lmao "are we going to let people walk into a tennis match with a baseball bat?"
To put it nicely, his argument is invalid as the hit box is designed for fighting games whereas traditional arcade sticks are also designed for fighting games. A baseball bat is designed for baseball, not fucken tennis.
hit box was made for fighting games, baseball bat was made for sports your argument is invalid
I like it even more how he is mentioning the fucked up DJHero controller.
If someone goes to a tournament with that thing and beats my ass, the only thing I'm gonna do is empty my bank account, give it all to that one guy and go kill myself because I can't bare the shame.
Would I ban the fuckin' scratch-controller? What am I fucking retarded? Hell nah...
Lol yeah, ever seen that Bruce Lee Nunchug(?) Table-Tennis video, nobody thinks that's stupid lol
Sigh, that Bruce Lee video is fake. Pretty sure it was from some Nokia commercial.
plus, the availability of it is about the same as a typical tournament arcade stick. if you have a Madcatz TE and are familiar with modding, you can actually buy a panel to use a Hitbox layout, but you'd also have to mod the PCB to eliminate SOCD presses.
I keep hearing the comparison to pads and how you cant do things like that on pad but you can? Triple and double inputs are still a button vs having to return to neutral on a stick no?
I like how he started out unbiased and civilized then he de-evolved into attacking what he felt was personally attacking the honor of the days of arcades gone by. But I believe this is why people love Aris.
I was playing fighting games on my emulators since early 2000, before I discovered usb game pads I used a keyboard and programmed the buttons to my liking. It took a little getting use to the controls (because I'm a console gamer), but I eventually figured it out. I now play against people who have controllers/joysticks and still manage hold my own with a keyboard, should I be band from tournaments if I play with something I'm comfortable playing with? Training makes you good, not the device.
Yes gtab
Aris: I bought a hitbox after seeing the Kabal shit and figured out an even easier way to chain gas blasts.
You can literally hold the jump button and double tap back, back + 1 over and over to keep gas blasts insanely close to the ground.
XXZ did projectile DPS data on the whole cast and found out that Kabal is capable of outputting 19% DPS with IAGB's. 2nd place is Sindel at 11% DPS, the only difference between Kabal and Sindel is she sacrifices an up close game to be a zoning character.
Aris should do flesh light reviews
The big “up” button was designed to be a jump button that’s easy to press with either hand. It looks weird but makes sense.
To add to the previous post. A couple guys in our VF scene picked this up and can do Perfect Giant Swings and other stuff they had difficulty doing on a stick. Now they can do it, it opened up more options to them, however because it's VF, you can shut down those new options that are opened up, making this thing just another device to use for fighting games. Now it comes down to preference of controller, nothing really changed.
I imagine it would be ridiculous with SF as well.
Before 3sOE came out, I was playing 3s on GGPO using my keyboard. Using WASD as my movement keys, I could drum out semicircle movements (ie Dudley's Machine Gun Blow) and most double quartercircle supers, almost instantly.
Most notably, Ibuki's Kasumi Suzaku can be pulled off almost as soon as you jump off the ground. No one expects that shit.
well when fighting games are released on PC's you cant ban the controller that comes with a PC (keyboard), and that thing is basically a keyboard, same argument as not banning pads
I like this device, I've made one for myself, and now able to beat top Tekken players of my City! I've been playing Tekken since last 8 years, but was hardly able to release qcf with an arcade stick, but this device is perfect for me, I can easily make qcf and f,qcf+4 or 1+2 move of king frequently! will try your triple tap technique for shining wizard though
I wonder if he still feels that way.
I question the slippery slope arguments, but I respect your emphasis that it's your own opinion
I kinda like the compact size of the original Hitbox. Makes it easy to pack into a bag and travel places
You can get a similar experience by building one with an enclosure from All Fight Sticks.
I know this review is ancient. But I'm getting a Hitbox anyway. I went from Pad to Stick and realized there's things the stick can do easily that the pad struggles with. Hitbox is another step up.
I think the fundamental problem is that most games are not properly balanced for HitBoxes. There's just too many broken tactics that are impossible on stick but trivial on a HitBox.
redvenomweb but they're also possible on a controller with a dpad...
MrScottyTay Sorry, let me rephrase: they are not literally impossible on stick, just ridiculously difficult (and likewise for dpad). However, Hitbox makes them easy.
I am referring to things like halfscreen instant double-jump overheads with UMVC3 Strider.
redvenomweb *wooosh* right over my head with them terms
Yeah that's probably the only case that can really be made against hitbox, but because it's not impossible to do on stick or pad, it's not solid enough of an argument to get hitboxes banned. Honestly it just seems like a superior controller for fighting games, but I doubt it'll ever catch on because people hate change
Sorry for the late response. In Street Fighter and other similar games, you have to stand to block most jump attacks and you can block most ground attacks while crouching. However, in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Strider Hiryu (one of the characters in the game) can do a VERY low, very fast jump attack (that leads into a big combo) from as far as half a screen away; this tactic is extremely difficult (and fairly risky) on a controller/joystick, but easy and simple on a Hitbox.
So the end result is that when you're using a Hitbox, your opponent doesn't really have time to react to attacks that must be blocked while standing or blocked while crouching. The defender basically has to guess.
Should be banned? That's laughable. Having never used one nor do I know anyone that uses one and basing this opinion based on your video alone, that's an extreme opinion based on tradition. Tradition is that fighting games are played on sticks, anything else is unacceptable. Yet there would be no reason for this control scheme not to be implemented to an arcade unit within the coming years.Having more precise control over your inputs isn't a reason something should be banned, it's a reason for the player base to move onto the more precise control method. But because it's different to current tradition and advantageous (based on the video alone), it should be banned? I think not. Everyone should play on controller or even a keyboard in that case so it's all standard.
I can see your point bro. I don't agree with you but I can see your point.
Ofc right when the whole controversy happens this old thing shows up
Like you said recently; the governing body should be the game itself. This might be something the developers should take into consideration, or not.
Actually, this type of controller was in use back in the SFII days, and they were regularly banned. They were also banned in all Chicago tourneys back in the SC2 days.
keep crying grandpa, go back to the nursing home.
@@cartierFGC This comment is older than you are.
Aris only feels cheated by people using this because he spent so much time on learning how to swirl is stick around. and this makes it obsolete. :o
And the fact that arcades machine are almost non existent now. Arcade stick are legacy controllers now. Fighting games are released on console and pc now. New generation haven't even played on a real arcade machine. Gampad, keyboard, and hit box are the future.
Excellent review, Aris. I think people are missing the point. Regardless of whether or not the device is actually giving an unfair advantage, players, community and tourney organizers need to pay attention to these types of things and decide about where to draw the line. Evolution of devices is wonderful. I'm sure we all agree players should be welcome to any device they can perform their best with. But not if it gives an unfair advantage.
Seems like people don't know what an opinion is especially what he has to say at the end....
Sad that everyone thinks this is cheating. Clearly no one here that are bitching and whining have actually played against someone using a tool assist....
10 year later, aris still talk about this huh
How come your hands got less hairy now?
Lmfao these videos getting recommended again because of the new weekly fgc twitter discourses. Happens every goddamn week
I repsectfully disagree. Hitbox takes time to learn and get proficient with just like a joystick. Let the player play with what they are comfortable on.
lie i used one at event 15 mins was easy also no neutral op
10 years later he still thinks the same... what a bigot.
pad works like a stick tho. so pad is acceptable. fighting games were never meant to be played on a controller were you can press left/right or up/down at the same time. because if you could you can bet they would have used hitbox style controls in the original arcades because having a cabinet with all buttons would have been cheaper to maintain and manufacture over sticks. sticks/ pad controls were used for a reason. im going to assume all mainstream console games were designed in mind to not be using left/right up/down at the same time considering all official controllers do not allow those inputs to be pressed on any d-pad at the same time.
hehe I like how this started as a review and then straight turned into ban hitbox
Eh the points he touches on about this are valid, and I agree. I really want one of these, but as far as execution goes, it definitely gives you an unfair advantage. a Standing 720 is easier on a hitbox than it is on a arcade stick. Also all of the shortcuts on SF4/SFxT are easier on hitboxes than they are on arcade stick. I will admit he was hating pretty hard in the end, but from my understanding, he went in on it unbiased in terms of pros and cons go.
It must either become a standard or be banned from tournament play.
I felt that way since day 1, glad to see someone notable agrees with me.
Nope, it's not the same thing. It's about how the stick/pad treats the input. I checked up on it and it seems the Hitbox is supposed to interpret: L + R = Neutral; U + D = Up. Thta is fine. With self-made stickless arcade sticks (or by modding the Hitbox) you can make it so that L + R is actually L + R and U + D = U + D. The former would give you perfect guard in MvC3 and the latter would let you block high and low at the same time in Soul Calibur 5. The 360/PS3 pads won't let you do that.
I'm spreading accurate facts... you are just trying to distort what I just said. You are right in one aspect; the hitbox doesn't do anything you can't do in-game with a pad or a stick. BUT! You can not PHYSICALLY press the button for forward and backward at the same time on a pad or a stick, you can push one direction at a time... you can get into neutral as you pointed out, but neutral is a lot easier to access with a hitbox compared to a pad, therefore e.g. backdashing is made easier.
@TheSoliquidus Actually the input is not a left+right since those type of inputs are not allowed on most emulators. The input is actually Fwd, Back, Down + fwd(or some weird combination) at a lightning fast pace that is impossible on stick or pad.
I absolutely agree with this, I used one the other day and played against someone using one. it was ridiculous and a real eye opener of the posibilities that open up with this thing, this either has to be banned, or anyone who wants to compete has to get one. This won't turn bad players good, but it absolutely gives a significant advantage, these motions were designed with the limitations of a joystick in mind, a gamepad has the same limitations and should also be allowed.
Aris.
You make this thing sound GREAT.
This video is hilarious.
its been what like 6 years since u made this? if this thing was so broken then how come top players are still using sticks huh?
Can you repeat that?
Slizzl lol his comment aged like expired milk
I think a better analogy would be that a common arcade stick is like a wood baseball bat whereas a hitbox is an aluminum baseball bat.
Avoiding The Puddle Does the Hit Box work on Virtua Fighter games?
It would be interesting to hear if this guy has revised his opinion on Hitboxes. I have a busted left hand and what this guy is saying is that I shouldn't be playing fighting games. Or if i would be allowed to play, then I cant be competitive at it due to a physical limitation. Great.
I don't think he meant to be offensive to anyone who has a physical issue. If you can only play a Hitbox and wanna go to tournaments, mention your hand issue before it gets started to the tournament organizer, so they should be ok with it. If not, they're dicks. lol
Morgoth1990 why would they be dicks??
I think this referring to people who have no disadvantages, who would take complete advantage of it to win. For example, those motorized scooters with carts in places like Walmart and target. If I see someone that has a broken leg for example using it, it's fine, it's tough to walk and using it helps out. However if I see someone using it who clearly has no disability, Imma see that person as some lazy fuck, and should be walking. Don't get offended by the review, it wasn't aimed at you, but the lazy fucks
i think the up button being at the bottom is actually smart design, since im a pc gamer, weve been accustomed to WASD controls. now obviously if you want the best inputs possible, youd like to use all four buttons at a time, and we also use the spacebar for jump...which just so happens to be up in fighting games
I'm so close to getting this thing, I want the best of the best and this thing may not make me number one, but it could completely change how I play SSF4 AE. Idc what this guy said, I do understand what he's trying to explain as far as the possibilities with this thing, but that's not stopping me at all. At the end of the day, you still have to put practice into the Hitbox just like the arcade stick and the d-pad. It's out there for purchase, and I honestly feel that those who don't at least give this a shot are only limiting themselves from the badass-ery that can be achieved just from a few minutes with this thing. Bottom line, if I beat you with this thing, it's your own fault for not investing in one of your own.
I don't know specifics of how well arcades do in every country so I'm not going to argue. Thing is, many parts of the world don't have influence on the US, and fact of the matter is tournaments aren't played on cabinets, they're played on consoles, so consoles are the standard.
Like I said, it's fine that you want to keep the arcade feel, I'm not trying to get everyone to play on a Hit Box, preference is what's important, but arcade isn't the standard and controllers shouldn't be judged by it.
Actually the block both ways thing was an issue with HitBox imitations/hacks.
The proper PCB used on the Hitbox will not register both left and right at the same time.
If you ask for source, I'm afraid I can't provide it, a Hitbox staff member who frequently posts on 4chan talked about this.
PC Street Fighter player here.
I use regular arcade sticks but Hit Box is just like a keyboard.
It was a little while before I could get my sticks together and I used a mechanical keyboard.
It didn't take me long to realize that WASD was absolutely terrible and I eventually bound up to space, finding I could play pretty well. Much better than a pad.
This is just the relevant keyboard keys, replaced with Sanwa arcade buttons in an ergonomic arrangement.
As such, I don't find it so innovative.
actually, a usb keyboard slim for $15 is good enough. If you map the keys properly, you can find some areas on the keyboard that will allow 3p/3k simultaneously with motion. Been using the same one for a year now, called the elephant slim keyboard. I've tested some of the keyboards at school that uses USB as well, and I assume it would be the same for ALL generic USB keyboards.
This is not only biased, but it's making a big deal out of something that was already fixed.
Official HitBoxes DO NOT ALLOW FOR SIMULTANEOUS LEFT + RIGHT (nor Up + Down). The folks at SRK Tech Talk have made sure that the firmware in the Cthulhu PCBs used in these things filters these out.
The only way for a HitBox to allow these is if it has been modified from official spec.
If you disagree with this, you can bring it up in SRK's Tech Talk.
I own a hitbox and I don't think it should be banned. My reasoning is that while some things are easier, others are much harder. It's really, really difficult to do 360s or 720s in a game that isn't sf4 (because it's so lenient). Tiger knees, chicken wing/hooligan, and half circles are significantly harder. General movement is harder (it's less intuitive). However, I will admit that it's easier to instant charge, KOF short hop, and DP on this thing. Overall it's not so OP it needs banning.
First of all I am a big fan of your stuff, but I am a bit taken aback by your thoughts on this peripheral. I tried it out myself and it's not for me, but at the same time there's nothing wrong with it. Plinking for SF is a lot easier on a Stick than it is on a pad, that doesn't mean Sticks are broken. Pads allow you to use buttons with your index and middle finger on your left hand, but that isn't considered cheap either. I think natural evolution to accomodate a player's needs is inevitable!
Slide back into forward. B,DB,D,DF,F. Hold back and press down for down-back, hold down and hit forward for down forward. Don't let go of the previous button until you contact the next one.
I have yet to use a hitbox but I am very curious about it after watching this. I like to give something a chance before forming a complete opinion of it but on its face it does not seem unfair. I watched ATPs vid about pad vs stick and hit box seems to have taken the best of both worlds and merged them into a useful hybrid. As someone who uses both a pad and a stick(with an 8 gate) I dont see the problem so far. Its has the directional speed of a pad with the face buttons of a stick.
Using a hitbox at a high level can cut down on input time and makes it more precise. The stick is more precise than the pad, so what's the difference? It's a keyboard. Also to someone else's comment SOCD doesn't allow sloppy 360's and 180's to work because you'd just get neutral. 180's and 360's require proper technique.
This is the literal 2011 equivilant of Grandpa: "Back in my day... we only used sticks! Now kids these days are xyz."
I can do the same thing on a keyboard. Your argument is invalid.
i have a hitbox and multiple types of gaming keyboards. Hit bot is much better then keyboard lol
what's the difference?
jo hu
1.Hitbox has more natural positions on the buttons so you will never mess up and press the wrong thing.
2. Arcade buttons feel better
3. You can drum and piano on a hitbox
i use keyboard from time to time as a hitbox, with similar up down left right button positioning and kicks and punches too... i find it easier than a pad (yeh im using a xbox pad, i kno not the best) but there are some moves which are harder than pad, like kings move when he grabs ur legs swings u arnd and arnd and lets u go, that move on hitbox like positioning is really difficult, idk why, on pad is easier. can u help me solve why is it like that? and also moves similar in movement of player like the kazuya's ..... down - diagonal right down - right + punch (when the opponent goes in the air)
I want to get one of these, how / where do I get one?
Sure, Aris is hardheaded as always but you guys are missing his point. It's not about making things easier. It's about making the impossible possible. The problem isn't with the control method itself but in the fact that THE GAMES WERE NOT DESIGNED FOR THIS INPUT METHOD. (of a finger per direction)
They give moves certain inputs to make sure you commit to them for enough TIME. Like having a 1 button DP would break SF w/o changing the game accordingly, this is the exact same deal with some moves.
@bludika Yes, I was referring to Tekken. If you check out Aris' older vids he has one where he compares a stick to a pad and he talks some about the difficulty back-dash canceling on certain sides of the screen with stick. The fact you find it easier to do on a stick just reinforces my point that the difficulty or ease of use to do things with different peripherals is subjective to the one playing, and you something shouldn't be banned because of someone else's opinion.
There are lots of pad tekken players mainly because, until SF4 was released, finding arcade sticks was not easy and they were in low supply. Now that there is higher demand and supply for arcade sticks, they are far more prevalent in all levels of play, and the Tekken (and 3D fighter community in general) in the West is evolving.
So because the Hitbox is more efficient than the norm it's unfair? How does new technology come about? How does progress in gaming happen?
Hitbox, Arcade Stick or Pad...at the end of the day you're all free
With more and more fighting games not getting arcade releases, console is quickly becoming the standard for fighters. You can preserve arcade culture as long as you want, but especially in the US most people don't care about arcades anymore. If it plugs into my console and doesn't have programmed inputs that play the game for me, it's legit. Arcade culture means nothing to someone who was never a part of it.
We can either ban them OR wait until they drop in price and get more popular , that way with easier execution we can see more people pull of difficult stuff and the games will become more competitive .
If an input device doesn't have a stick, it is correct to still call it a stick?
This stick is crazy overpowered. It literally gives you an advantage impossible from a stick or pad. In UMvC3 you can hold down-back and up and you'll bunny hop well crouching when you land. Usually you can hit a opponent when they land or during their jump frames, but not with this stick. Also it creates option selects against characters like Zangief, if they attack you, you block, if they go for a grab you jump. Totally broken.
this has probably been answered already, but the up button is there because you press down more often then up.
A lot of people getting turnt on an old ass review lol. Currently a pad player but if I keep up this Tekken life the hitbox will see me eventually. Have 20+ years of PC gaming under my belt, there is nothing less scary than transitioning to a keyboard style fight controller, the $200 is far more frightening.
I love your opinion on the whole concept of the hitbox
Crazy to watch this today lol
You're right, I agree with what you say, but then doesn't that mean that the HitBox is the equivalent of a pad, but with really conveniently located directional buttons? According to the Hit Box staff, Down + Up will give you up in SSF4, so I'm not sure what you mean by the Zangief option select. Personally, I just don't see this being really game breaking in any way. I just see it as a way to lower the execution, so you can focus more on the thought aspect of the game.
@TheSoliquidus yes, other hitbox players, but the standard on every other device(majority of devices) is the standard cardinal direction: N(top), E(right),S(down),W(left). that directional setup is the same for pad and stick and that should be the standard. also, the fact that the hitbox designer changed that standard means that they saw another advantage. imagine a hitbox with the default cardinal direction layout, or something similar to the keyboard arrows. it's not as effective
Seeing as how everyone has access to the same controls, I think people should be able to use whichever controller they like the best.
and you can't avoid diagonals either on a hitbox. A piano motion doesn't mean you press each direction once and let go of it. If you do it fast enough, chances are you're pressing diagonals as well, no matter what. It's a fast motion, and it's easy to grasp. Personally, I do better circular motions and fast 720s on a dpad, because I just rotate my thumb. I make mistakes performing Q W E SPACE then Q W E SPACE, sometimes accidentally hitting Q before SPACE again since I'm using two hands.
I still use my Xbox controller,and lose almost every time I play off or online and I don't complain. If he don't want it I will gladly take it off his hands.
why not make this the norm over regular sticks?
The moment I heard Aris utter "Power Glove", visions of Tri-Force sitting in a room amid a sea of them getting his hair braided by Harlem harems (purchased with tournament money derived from his minions using this "new and innovative" peripheral to their advantage) danced about my subconscious mind.
Don't really agree with his conclusion (in the sense that I have no opinion whatsoever on competitive gaming regulations), but you're spot on with your keyboard comparison. Back in the DOS days and even on my C64, I used to play fighting games with this sort of "button control" instead of a stick all the time.