I got a new amp for my microphone and I have a cold so this is why I sound so different in this video. I have one more video that I am working on for Sea Power that has to do with sonars. My ambition with it is to go deep on how the sonar is modeled to give you a better idea of how much detail is in the game. This one will take more time to make it so it will come most likely in October.
Just so you know, weapons free means that the units can fire whenever they want but weapons tight means they will only fire when you tell them to. Being on tight is a good way to conserve ammunition when there's only a couple of targets so the ships don't salvo fire all of the precious defensive weapons
Some quick tips from a former Navy Radar tech, be sneaky: yes radar lets you see a long distance, but it lets you be seen from even further, if you had maintained EMCON or even just used your radars intermittently those missile boats wouldn't have been able to get a lock on you without getting much closer and turning on their radars them selves. Launch your helicopters early and use them as remote sensor platforms, they can be your eyes in the sky while you keep your radar off. Chaff is a last minute decoy, launch it once the missile is 30 seconds to a minute out, also try and turn in a way where the chaff is in-between you and the missile. Turning away also reduces your radar cross section and makes chaff the sexier target.
Thanks for the tips. It has been an interesting couple days of trial and error of going through and seeing how things work. In RTS games, I have the bad habit of really trying to save resources too much for a rainy day. I was scared of using the helicopters because I wasn't sure if more MiG-23s were around and I wanted the helos just in case any submarines came up. This clearly was not a good idea because my ammo got widdled down so I couldn't defend against missiles.
I love that simulation games like this are getting so advanced that real radar tech advice can be applicable, instead of just tips on how to game the system.
@@theunkownbanana1823 to be fair I don't know if they are modeling radar cross sections or not but putting the chaff between yourself and the missile is still solid advice even if they use a simpler targeting system.
Don't mind me asking - you say switch radar off, or turn it off and on, would there be any particular method or pattern discerning when you'd switch radar on to detect something/someone?
@@firestarteronyoutube5542 Not sure if modeled but you can see the radar mast rotating/sweeping on the top of ships. You may be able to use that as a indicator letting the radar do 1-2 sweeps to get a quick bearing and range of your surroundings and then turn it off. Probably wait till you move to a different position 5-10 minutes later then sweep again to get an updated picture. This way you can minimize the time sending signals and risk avoid getting detected, Worst case: They get a bearing , but not range or course and speed you get from tracking a target over time. If they launch missiles, they shoot with inaccurate ranging activation potentially missiles breezing past you or a complete whiff if they shoot in the incorrect location since you are moving. Again, not sure how moddled and will take some testing against the AI, but at the guy above has stated, use another radar source such as a helocopter to get information without giving away your fleets locations.
Minor tip? You're deploying your chaff WAY too early. That should be saved for when that missile is coming into those final couple of miles, not when you're still 5+ miles out, engaging purely through missiles and some 5in gun fire. At that range, the missile seeker will just disregard the chaff entirely.
Sorry for my delay, I came down with covid when I filmed his and have been down and out since then. I usually play flight sims and in that genre, we typically deploy chat early and often until we break a missile lock. In this, it does not allow you to deploy multiple chaff in quick succession so this lines up with your point that you shouldn't deploy your chaff early because the maximized effect happens closer to a potential impact. THanks for your note.
@@Enigma89 yeah I didn't want to cross as a backseat gamer, nobody likes those. Just a piece of advice was all. I think its hard to unlearn the habits of when and how you deploy countermeasures in one setting compared to the other, so it can be a fun time with the growing pains.
Some of my observations from watching the various TH-camrs: 1. EMCON - You want to minimise your own radar emissions. The enemy will fire in the direction of any unknown/assumed enemy detected signals (radar emissions). Unless you want a metric ton of AShMs being fired at you, keep your own radars off until you know you're in the thick of it (because there's no point hiding by then). An air search radar is more important than a surface search radar - missiles (in the name of the game) are the most dangerous thing. Have a picket ship dislocated from the main formation, with its air search radar on. This will achieve 2 things: 1) it will provide an air picture for you. 2) it provides a decoy for the enemy to fire at instead of your important assets. Have it off to a side so, in the event of a miss, the missile doesn't acquire the rest of the formation and go for that (depends on the direction the attack comes from, obviously). Up to you which ship is the picket but my mentality is: keep the best defender in reserve. In this scenario, I'd have had the Badger be the picket - the OHP can fire SM-1s to cover it (but your magazine is small), plus it has its own RIM-7s - it doesn't have a CIWS though. Because of this, the OHP is better served being held in reserve to cover the freighters. 2. Launch helos early - Because you'll want to keep your own surface search radar off, get those helos airborne ASAP. They can cover more ground, faster, and they have a surface search radar of their own - and sonar if subs are a concern for you. If using them for surface search, have them flying relatively high so their radar can see further - they're your mobile surface-search-radar-decoys. The enemy will detect them being in the air (assuming their own air search radar is on), but won't know where the formation is - and if they launch a SAM at it, you know in which direction the ship is - so you can lob AShMs in its direction. 3. The enemy, from what I've observed, doesn't do anything tricky after firing their missiles (no dog legs, no changing course - that I've observed in what's being shown) so - unless you have confirmed civilians in the area - fire an AShM, or two, of your own in the direction of where enemy missiles came from. Yes, the enemy may be able to assume your position - but just because they don't do dog legs or change course after firing, doesn't mean you can't.
@@Jajalaatmaar At its most basic, a "dog leg" is one or more turns that enable an aircraft (or missile) to proceed to its original destination. So an aircraft (or missile) is on a head towards its target, conducts a 90 degree turn left or right, flies along that bearing for a set distance/time, then turns back into the target. In essence, the attack comes from a direction different to where the missile was fired from.
@@Jajalaatmaar To add onto his comment. It will essentially fool the enemy into believing that the attack is coming from a different direction in case the enemy decides to counter fire along the path of your missiles. Those enemy missiles will be flying off into a direction away from you.
Missiles are coming from the front and the 3" gun, CIWS, and the Knox's RIM-7 launcher can't fire forwards. I actually said "Turn and unmask the guns!" out loud while waching this. Game looks really fun, though. Looking forward to seeing more of it.
Enigma is a good creator and I do thank him for giving us this content even though it can be frustrating to watch although I don't think he knows a ton about modern ships so he's learning as he goes. There's a lot of helpful comments here and I think the big one is that he won't be leaving his radar on indefinitely so he won't have to deal with all of those annoying missiles constantly.
4:52 "Now, I don't think these are gonna be civilian aircraft because they're flying in formation and fast as hell." In other news, the Norwegian high speed aerobatics team was shot down by an American destroyer off the coast of Norway during flight practice drills.
I remember listening to a NATO warship tell, I think it was a German pilot, to either turn or they will be forced to shoot them down which then the German Cessna pilot said "Oh no, we don't want that." It's on YT and isn't that old of a video. Search up German DA40s penetrate RESTRICTED AIRSPACE
@@deekamikaze a DA-40 is not a cessna. Its Diamond Aircraft, an austrian company. I should know because i work there and i have built DA-40s myself haha
Medea: "Murcan muders murdered completly innocent and inconspicuous pilots doing completly unsuspicious things around warships activly under air attack."
Simplyfied summary of the video: "Oh no, that´s not good" "That´s a problem" "Oh no" "That´s a problem" "Oh no, that´s not good" "That´s a problem" "That´s my last Harpoon" Mission accomplished
It’s da ships. Some inconsequential nomenclature tips: “USS” aka United States Ship: a warship manned by U.S. Navy military crew. “SS” aka Steam Ship: A merchant ship propelled by steam, typically boilers and steam turbines. The U.S. merchant marine held on to steam power way longer than most other maritime nations. A U.S. Maritime Administration standard ( or modified) C-4 cargo ship is an “SS”. “M/V” aka motor vessel: a merchant ship powered by one or more diesel engines. Widely adopted by other maritime nations because they are more fuel-efficient and allow for a smaller engineering department to operate. The Danish ship in this convoy. “USNS”. Aka United States Naval Ship. A ship owned and operated by the U.S. Navy but manned by a civilian civil service crew. General cargo ships, tankers/oilers, some specialized repair/salvage ships, etc. Not many of them still around, but in a game set in the 1970s they may pop up from time to time.
I'm more concerned that the little witch from Kikis delivery service is apparently real and has gone from small deliveries to bulk freight! Japan in this universe must be terrifying.
Its going to be really interesting watching the sim community start learning fleet tactics! Some recommendations from watching this. - Make sure you understand where the most likely directions of attack are, this will inform you on fleet disposition - i.e. do I want my Principle Air Defender "up threat"? - Maritime warfare is technical warfare, understand the enemy and friendly platforms, what they can do to you and the inverse. - The naval kill chain relies on detecting and engaging the enemy effectively *first*. You did not use your most potent ISTAR asset - which are your helicopters - this could have detected the enemy surface group far outside of their effective detection range. Really looking forward to playing this myself. Great video.
My thoughts exactly, most of his problems came from those missile boat which would t even have detected him at all if he kept his radars off and used his helicopters.
@@nikolaideianov5092 The first 5 were built with the older Mark 26 missile launch system, then all the remaining ones were switched to the Mark 41 VLS. These first 5 were retired relatively early into their careers due to that iirc (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong on that).
Idk if this works but try deploying the sonar buoys 2 at a time and a couple miles apart from each other so the yellow lines will eventually meet and you could get a rough estimate of where the enemy is
I know a decent amount of people will overlook it, but let’s talk about that soundtrack! The track at 7:45 is just great lol Super excited for full release!
23:54 Perhaps a 20 mm round struck and damaged a control surface of the missile causing it to slowly veer off course, detailed internal and external modeling of the missiles could be a factor there.
Thank god - at last ! This is the first video of around half a dozen on this upcoming game that actually showed the enemy as getting hits in - every other video was a complete cakewalk for the human player. I am sorry that you lost but I am SOOOO happy that this game now looks like it will be challenging as well as visually amazing. Thanks so much for the video and so much for your valiant loss !
You did a good job defending against those SSMs. The Perry can only guide a couple of missiles at a time so you have to figure that in to your engagements.
I think this is an even older Harpoon mission circa 1989. I loved that game but my computer couldn't handle the more complex missions and crashed. Also the AI did silly things like dog-fight with badgers vs F15s.
One big thing Enigma those helo's should have been up and out way earlier, both scouting and dropping buoy's to give you eyes and ears away from the fleet. Also triangulation is your friend with passives, once you have a bearing offset and drop, offset and drop quicker you can draw triangles quicker you can get an accurate range on the bearing.
Great video! I really love how tense these battles are One tiny thing I'm seeing is that you might be popping chaff a tad early. And now I'm curious about the "life" of chaff once deployed in-game... Also with chaff, and I've seen it happen in a few other Sea Power videos, is that while it works pretty well at times, if you have friendly ships *behind* the chaff deploying ship, the chaff effectively redirects the missile at them! This makes the formation really important As you said in the video, your formation should never be static and should be modified once you learn where the enemy is attacking from. The question I have now is what's the best formation... I'm wondering if you should have your escorts in a "line" running along the angle of attack from the enemy so you have more chances to intercept enemy missiles? I haven't really studied modern naval formations or engagements, so a lot of this will be a huge learning experience for me. Suppose we'll figure all of these little complexities with time (and in my case, many horrible failures) Cya in the next one!
I am most definitely popping the chaff way too early. I am definitely more of a flight simmer than a naval simmer so some of this has been me testing to see how things interact with each other. There is no tutorial in our build so we have to teach ourselves.
You need position your ships for CIWS to have line of sight to take on the antiship missiles. With the Oliver Hazard Perry the phalanx is on the stern so you need to cross the T with incoming missiles.
Really great video and solid narration! Thank you for recording, editing, and uploading this. Can't wait to see more. I hope you make some custom scenarios and upload them for the community! I know nothing about naval warfare but coming from the Combat Mission games, I'm super excited to learn this stuff and people like you make it possible to approach these games.
Amazing game to watch, looks very promising! Regarding your big idea at 19:42, it seems to me you'd want a couple of sonar buoys out with a couple of miles between them so that you can triangulate and get the exact position of the enemy contacts. After you dropped one, you only had a very imprecise estimation of their location for a good 5 mins before knowing more or less where they were while getting shot at. I imagine that situation could have developed very differently if you had either used the same helicopter to drop another buoy ASAP a few miles out orthogonal to the bearing of the enemy contacts or if you had had a second helicopter dropping another buoy at the same time as the first. Possibly this could have allowed you to pinpoint the source of the attacks earlier, allowing you to be aggressive much earlier.
Not sure if I will like playing the game but I've loved the videos you and the other creators are putting out on it. The game just naturally builds suspense.
I think if you pop your chaff early, it might confuse your own cwis and give the computers on the missile (at least more advanced missiles) time to react to the chaff and use its ECM filters
I recall playing very similar scenarios in Harpoon. Results were similar too, if you let them detect you first, they'll overwhelm you with missiles. Helicopters make great scouts and you can use them to deceive your opponent by launching them and have them travel a parallel course but a number of miles off your track. Does Sea Power let you launch Harpoons with waypoints? I think that should be possible, so you could dog-leg the missile's course so they can't fire down the incoming bearing. Same trick as with Mk48s in Cold Waters
this game look soooo promising. Also, I would love to hear the "incoming, incoming, incoming" siren on the ship, like on the video of the one during the Gulf war
I think the main mistake was engaging too late. Could've combined the vector of the incoming anti-ship missiles, their distance and the early return from the sonobuoy (which confirmed a surface contact) to fire a handful of Harpoon snapshots. The missile boats had too much time to launch their stores.
Knox class has limited anti air defenses. Put the Perry class forward as an air picket. The Knox class is better suited as an anti submarine platform. Also launching your chaff way to early and make sure you turn out of it one you launch it.
You need to make sure your missile batteries are unmasked. The Knox class frigate’s sea sparrow missile launcher is on the stern, so it can’t engage targets to the ship’s front.
One tip i would give is for american ships go broadside onto incoming fire as itl allow your phalanx the best angle to fire and if your gonna get hit your gonna be hit anyways.
I’d like to give you some tips as an active soldier. These are not specifically related to the Navy, but more general advice. Your first priority should be gathering information. Be careful not to get spotted yourself while doing this. Think of it like a sniper who, while moving around, uses his scope or binoculars to scout out interesting points. Applied to maritime operations, as mentioned in other comments, you use helicopters. I haven’t noticed any range limitations for the helicopters yet, so I’m assuming they can fly 'very far or unlimited.' Depending on the situation you’re in and how many assets you have available, I would place at least one sonar buoy behind the formation to detect any followers. Then, secure the flanks with two helicopters and possibly fly ahead with a third. I’m not certain about the detection range of the buoys, but I would place them about 10-15 nm apart. With the third helicopter, go up to around 3000 ft and use its air-to-surface radar, if possible only periodically. Keep the other two flying low. Secondly, I would generally think about where an enemy could come from and adjust the formation accordingly. In the case of this mission, it was clear from the map that maritime enemies could only come from the north-northwest to north-northeast. Therefore, I would have placed one FF (frigate) at the front and the other FF on the left flank of the formation, with the freighters in the center or on the right flank. In limited scenarios, I wouldn’t be too conservative with my missiles-engage targets quickly. I would position the formation of the ships close enough so that the CIWS (Close-In Weapon Systems) can cover each other. The helicopters and/or planes should be used with a wide spread, at least for reconnaissance purposes. Additionally, only activate their sensors when the distance from the fleet is large enough.
I would have launched 2 copters at the start and had them reconning way forward of the ships. They would have seen those planes and ships before they fired. Just had to worry about the planes having anti air missles. Also, I put my ships on weapons hold after they fired a volley of missles at the incoming shots. To save missles for other targets. Wasted 6 missles with no targets to hit. Put the ship with the lower range weapons out front of formation. To help with shots on targets. Good idea about firing before the missles were in range tho. Ran right into your missles.
Problem fleets had in that era was the Sea Sparrow was damn awful. By time CIWS kicks off at the speed of some anti ship missiles you’ve basically got one second to engage and hit before you’re hit. The jump up to supersonic sea skimming capability was fantastic.
The model for the Halyburton is wrong, she should be a long hull OHP, not a short hull. She needs an extra 8 feet on her fantail, and she should be able to carry SH-60s and have the RAST system on the flight deck. You can tell Halyburton is modeled as a short hull OHP by the lack of a step down on the fantail to keep the aft capstain flush with the flightdeck (this is to allow SH-60s to not have their tail rotor hit it).
This game looks interesting, at first look I thought it maybe based on DCS engine, but I see it's microprose not ED. Keep the videos coming, as I may have to get my wallet out when sea paper releases in November!
Don’t understand why the air AI just continues without reaction when locked up and targeted by SAMs. Pilots are literally flying directly into low energy SAMs that they should have known were coming. Maybe they were actually tasked with intercepting SAMs with their airframes?
The used Anti Air missiles (Sea Sparrow and SM 1 MR) in the game are Semi-active radar homing missiles. That means they are not working with an own radar to fly to the target. They are guided by the ships radar. The enemy pilot knows that he is detected by an Airborne radar and/or fire control radar but not that a missile is on the way. Of course, he can assume that a missile is on the way when he is picked up by a fire control radar. The problem is only that he doesn’t know where the missile is because the missile is not working with an own radar. I served in the German Navy for 12 years from 1986 to 1998. Last position Chief of Radar and Fire Control on German PGFG´s (fast patrol boats in corvette size with 2 x 3-inch guns, anti-ship missiles and wired controlled anti-ship torpedoes). That makes the game so interesting for me because it is playing in a time where I was in active service.
I've seen the AI go cold or beam to incoming missiles, but as another commenter said it's hard to know if they are being shot at due to the fact that the SM-1MR is a SARH missile
@@ilovenavalgames1988 SARH missiles can still give a launch warning, as typically the frequencies used for search and track are different and the beam required for a missile to find a target is much narrower and higher strenght
Well, at some point, you thought loudly of getting closer to a missile boat to be able to hit it better if the Harpoons miss. What were you thinking, like guns range closer? Actually, you could have been way better off engaging them on a longer distance. Especially since your Harpoons have an about 5 nm longer range then the opponent's SSN-9's, so the best tactic I would suggest would be to shoot the harpoons at max range and turn southwards to stay out of their range. And shoot about 3 per target in about 10 sec. apart. High chance of hitting and practically 0% of being hit.
Greetings from Russia! It's a pity two little Nanuchka-class corvette :_C But the last one showed up pretty well! You are too sorry for the traps against radar missiles. Ship-type traps, as far as I know, are needed to cover the ship, i.e. a huge cloud is created that prevents the radar from understanding where the target is, and not as in airplanes, diverts the target to itself. So you need to drop the trap in front of you (in front of the rocket) so that it covers you. Also, do not forget to throw several sea buoys at once, because this works according to the triangulation method :) I am glad to see your videos, they are very good
Weird a OHP shouldn’t have a SPS-67 should have a SPS-55. For sim may not make a difference but different band radars. All the Knox class I remember had SPS-10s, but could have been some. The band would have been the same at least.
I dont know why people are comparing this to cold waters. This is all Fleet command game play. My only question or conern is why November 🥺🥺😭😭 Its our game and we want it now!
Yes. Ironically I usually end up playing the non-Americans in most games, for whatever reason all the videos that came out were just American ones. The sonar video I am working on is from the Soviet perspective.
I did not know if there were more planes out there or if there were ships with SAMs so I was nervous to fly them really high and start emitting a radar.
@@Enigma89 In other naval games, it is perfectly valid to just have them hovering high over your fleet. So within your air defense bubble but extends your surface detection 10x fold.
2:24 - assume direct control - that looks interesting! You said that there is limited ammo on ships, etc is it possible to get them resupplied? Can you change the weather?
I wonder if you could do better by spreading your warships out. You’ve got them in basically the same spot. If you spread them out you could guard different vectors.
Does this game allow you to engage surface targets with Standard SAMs? You could do this in the Cold Water surface mod. While technically correct, I always preferred using proper anti ship missiles to engage ships. Guys would take a Perry class into huge engagement. They didn't look at it as having four harpoons and 36 SM-1s. They looked at it as having 40 anti-ship missiles, taking on a Slava and a couple of Kashins. No real life Perry skipper in his right mind would do that. Anyways, my two cents. Looks like a cool game. Thanks for putting this out.
from what i have seen its got Toco class cruisers and Burk class destroyers but i think they are early configurations with twin launchers instead of VLS but i could be wrong
Hah, I wonder what that Floggers were hoping for. Hit your ships with guns and rockets? ASMs were never fitted to them, as far as I know. I'd like to see MiG-23A and its weapons: actually this navalized Flogger was never put into production
I got a new amp for my microphone and I have a cold so this is why I sound so different in this video. I have one more video that I am working on for Sea Power that has to do with sonars. My ambition with it is to go deep on how the sonar is modeled to give you a better idea of how much detail is in the game. This one will take more time to make it so it will come most likely in October.
Honestly I have not noticed at all
Just so you know, weapons free means that the units can fire whenever they want but weapons tight means they will only fire when you tell them to. Being on tight is a good way to conserve ammunition when there's only a couple of targets so the ships don't salvo fire all of the precious defensive weapons
ok when i started this video and heard your voice i went "woah who is this guy?" then i read this comment and now it makes a lot more sense.
Some quick tips from a former Navy Radar tech,
be sneaky: yes radar lets you see a long distance, but it lets you be seen from even further, if you had maintained EMCON or even just used your radars intermittently those missile boats wouldn't have been able to get a lock on you without getting much closer and turning on their radars them selves.
Launch your helicopters early and use them as remote sensor platforms, they can be your eyes in the sky while you keep your radar off.
Chaff is a last minute decoy, launch it once the missile is 30 seconds to a minute out, also try and turn in a way where the chaff is in-between you and the missile. Turning away also reduces your radar cross section and makes chaff the sexier target.
Thanks for the tips. It has been an interesting couple days of trial and error of going through and seeing how things work. In RTS games, I have the bad habit of really trying to save resources too much for a rainy day. I was scared of using the helicopters because I wasn't sure if more MiG-23s were around and I wanted the helos just in case any submarines came up. This clearly was not a good idea because my ammo got widdled down so I couldn't defend against missiles.
I love that simulation games like this are getting so advanced that real radar tech advice can be applicable, instead of just tips on how to game the system.
@@theunkownbanana1823 to be fair I don't know if they are modeling radar cross sections or not but putting the chaff between yourself and the missile is still solid advice even if they use a simpler targeting system.
Don't mind me asking - you say switch radar off, or turn it off and on, would there be any particular method or pattern discerning when you'd switch radar on to detect something/someone?
@@firestarteronyoutube5542 Not sure if modeled but you can see the radar mast rotating/sweeping on the top of ships. You may be able to use that as a indicator letting the radar do 1-2 sweeps to get a quick bearing and range of your surroundings and then turn it off. Probably wait till you move to a different position 5-10 minutes later then sweep again to get an updated picture.
This way you can minimize the time sending signals and risk avoid getting detected,
Worst case:
They get a bearing , but not range or course and speed you get from tracking a target over time.
If they launch missiles, they shoot with inaccurate ranging activation potentially missiles breezing past you or a complete whiff if they shoot in the incorrect location since you are moving.
Again, not sure how moddled and will take some testing against the AI, but at the guy above has stated, use another radar source such as a helocopter to get information without giving away your fleets locations.
Minor tip? You're deploying your chaff WAY too early. That should be saved for when that missile is coming into those final couple of miles, not when you're still 5+ miles out, engaging purely through missiles and some 5in gun fire. At that range, the missile seeker will just disregard the chaff entirely.
I hadn’t realised the player was deploying it and thought the AI was lol.
Sorry for my delay, I came down with covid when I filmed his and have been down and out since then. I usually play flight sims and in that genre, we typically deploy chat early and often until we break a missile lock. In this, it does not allow you to deploy multiple chaff in quick succession so this lines up with your point that you shouldn't deploy your chaff early because the maximized effect happens closer to a potential impact. THanks for your note.
@@Enigma89 yeah I didn't want to cross as a backseat gamer, nobody likes those. Just a piece of advice was all. I think its hard to unlearn the habits of when and how you deploy countermeasures in one setting compared to the other, so it can be a fun time with the growing pains.
A frigate?
PERRY THE FRIGATE!?!
"Just call him USS P."
Good one.
yes, oliver hazard perry, a us naval officer from the 19th century, nothing to do with a 2010's cartoon
@@doltBmBthey know. It's called a joke
Some of my observations from watching the various TH-camrs:
1. EMCON - You want to minimise your own radar emissions. The enemy will fire in the direction of any unknown/assumed enemy detected signals (radar emissions). Unless you want a metric ton of AShMs being fired at you, keep your own radars off until you know you're in the thick of it (because there's no point hiding by then). An air search radar is more important than a surface search radar - missiles (in the name of the game) are the most dangerous thing. Have a picket ship dislocated from the main formation, with its air search radar on. This will achieve 2 things: 1) it will provide an air picture for you. 2) it provides a decoy for the enemy to fire at instead of your important assets. Have it off to a side so, in the event of a miss, the missile doesn't acquire the rest of the formation and go for that (depends on the direction the attack comes from, obviously). Up to you which ship is the picket but my mentality is: keep the best defender in reserve. In this scenario, I'd have had the Badger be the picket - the OHP can fire SM-1s to cover it (but your magazine is small), plus it has its own RIM-7s - it doesn't have a CIWS though. Because of this, the OHP is better served being held in reserve to cover the freighters.
2. Launch helos early - Because you'll want to keep your own surface search radar off, get those helos airborne ASAP. They can cover more ground, faster, and they have a surface search radar of their own - and sonar if subs are a concern for you. If using them for surface search, have them flying relatively high so their radar can see further - they're your mobile surface-search-radar-decoys. The enemy will detect them being in the air (assuming their own air search radar is on), but won't know where the formation is - and if they launch a SAM at it, you know in which direction the ship is - so you can lob AShMs in its direction.
3. The enemy, from what I've observed, doesn't do anything tricky after firing their missiles (no dog legs, no changing course - that I've observed in what's being shown) so - unless you have confirmed civilians in the area - fire an AShM, or two, of your own in the direction of where enemy missiles came from. Yes, the enemy may be able to assume your position - but just because they don't do dog legs or change course after firing, doesn't mean you can't.
I hope he sees this. It will help A TON
What is a dog leg?
@@Jajalaatmaar At its most basic, a "dog leg" is one or more turns that enable an aircraft (or missile) to proceed to its original destination.
So an aircraft (or missile) is on a head towards its target, conducts a 90 degree turn left or right, flies along that bearing for a set distance/time, then turns back into the target. In essence, the attack comes from a direction different to where the missile was fired from.
@@Jajalaatmaar To add onto his comment. It will essentially fool the enemy into believing that the attack is coming from a different direction in case the enemy decides to counter fire along the path of your missiles. Those enemy missiles will be flying off into a direction away from you.
Missiles are coming from the front and the 3" gun, CIWS, and the Knox's RIM-7 launcher can't fire forwards. I actually said "Turn and unmask the guns!" out loud while waching this.
Game looks really fun, though. Looking forward to seeing more of it.
You beat me to this comment, my eyes were twitching watching that last missile close-in outside the CWIS firing arc ahaha :'D
Enigma is a good creator and I do thank him for giving us this content even though it can be frustrating to watch although I don't think he knows a ton about modern ships so he's learning as he goes. There's a lot of helpful comments here and I think the big one is that he won't be leaving his radar on indefinitely so he won't have to deal with all of those annoying missiles constantly.
4:52 "Now, I don't think these are gonna be civilian aircraft because they're flying in formation and fast as hell."
In other news, the Norwegian high speed aerobatics team was shot down by an American destroyer off the coast of Norway during flight practice drills.
I remember listening to a NATO warship tell, I think it was a German pilot, to either turn or they will be forced to shoot them down which then the German Cessna pilot said "Oh no, we don't want that." It's on YT and isn't that old of a video.
Search up German DA40s penetrate RESTRICTED AIRSPACE
@@deekamikaze a DA-40 is not a cessna. Its Diamond Aircraft, an austrian company. I should know because i work there and i have built DA-40s myself haha
Medea: "Murcan muders murdered completly innocent and inconspicuous pilots doing completly unsuspicious things around warships activly under air attack."
Simplyfied summary of the video:
"Oh no, that´s not good"
"That´s a problem"
"Oh no"
"That´s a problem"
"Oh no, that´s not good"
"That´s a problem"
"That´s my last Harpoon"
Mission accomplished
It’s da ships. Some inconsequential nomenclature tips:
“USS” aka United States Ship: a warship manned by U.S. Navy military crew.
“SS” aka Steam Ship: A merchant ship propelled by steam, typically boilers and steam turbines. The U.S. merchant marine held on to steam power way longer than most other maritime nations. A U.S. Maritime Administration standard ( or modified) C-4 cargo ship is an “SS”.
“M/V” aka motor vessel: a merchant ship powered by one or more diesel engines. Widely adopted by other maritime nations because they are more fuel-efficient and allow for a smaller engineering department to operate. The Danish ship in this convoy.
“USNS”. Aka United States Naval Ship. A ship owned and operated by the U.S. Navy but manned by a civilian civil service crew. General cargo ships, tankers/oilers, some specialized repair/salvage ships, etc. Not many of them still around, but in a game set in the 1970s they may pop up from time to time.
steam ship is a myth, it's just two s to be different from the brits
2:13 nah they are now shipping Golden Eagles aswell?! can´t escape the snail i guess
It's a shipping company. Not a reference to the game developer.
@@RedTail1-1 It's called a joke
I'm more concerned that the little witch from Kikis delivery service is apparently real and has gone from small deliveries to bulk freight!
Japan in this universe must be terrifying.
@@RedTail1-1 considering it's next to a studio Ghibli reference, I think it's very possible that it is a reference.
Its going to be really interesting watching the sim community start learning fleet tactics!
Some recommendations from watching this.
- Make sure you understand where the most likely directions of attack are, this will inform you on fleet disposition - i.e. do I want my Principle Air Defender "up threat"?
- Maritime warfare is technical warfare, understand the enemy and friendly platforms, what they can do to you and the inverse.
- The naval kill chain relies on detecting and engaging the enemy effectively *first*. You did not use your most potent ISTAR asset - which are your helicopters - this could have detected the enemy surface group far outside of their effective detection range.
Really looking forward to playing this myself. Great video.
My thoughts exactly, most of his problems came from those missile boat which would t even have detected him at all if he kept his radars off and used his helicopters.
If a Perry gave them these levels of hell, imagine a Ticon **rubs hands together**
Awesome vid!
Having served on a Tico I can't wait
@@kennethschlegel870 Was it nuclear?
Nope, LM2500 Gas Turbine engines
@@kennethschlegel870dont they only use VLS cells?
@@nikolaideianov5092 The first 5 were built with the older Mark 26 missile launch system, then all the remaining ones were switched to the Mark 41 VLS. These first 5 were retired relatively early into their careers due to that iirc (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong on that).
Can we talk about the music. From about the 5 minute range the music goes to another level of atmosphere. Absolutely awesome.
2:14
NOOOOO CANT EVEN ESCAPE IT IN OTHER GAMES ARGHHHHH
SINK THAT MERCHENT SHIP SINK IT
The naval sim gaming light age is coming!
Idk if this works but try deploying the sonar buoys 2 at a time and a couple miles apart from each other so the yellow lines will eventually meet and you could get a rough estimate of where the enemy is
I know a decent amount of people will overlook it, but let’s talk about that soundtrack! The track at 7:45 is just great lol
Super excited for full release!
23:54 Perhaps a 20 mm round struck and damaged a control surface of the missile causing it to slowly veer off course, detailed internal and external modeling of the missiles could be a factor there.
Thank god - at last ! This is the first video of around half a dozen on this upcoming game that actually showed the enemy as getting hits in - every other video was a complete cakewalk for the human player. I am sorry that you lost but I am SOOOO happy that this game now looks like it will be challenging as well as visually amazing.
Thanks so much for the video and so much for your valiant loss !
You did a good job defending against those SSMs. The Perry can only guide a couple of missiles at a time so you have to figure that in to your engagements.
This is an old Cold water mission but with ships instead of a sub.
I hope this game will be as good as cold water
I think this is an even older Harpoon mission circa 1989. I loved that game but my computer couldn't handle the more complex missions and crashed. Also the AI did silly things like dog-fight with badgers vs F15s.
It was the first mission. From memory it gave you a p3c as well@bartynz8486
Must say, learning this without any kind of tutorial is a big ask, well done.
Man waiting till October for this is hard.
Also loved the red october style intro.
You should keep making those.
One big thing Enigma those helo's should have been up and out way earlier, both scouting and dropping buoy's to give you eyes and ears away from the fleet. Also triangulation is your friend with passives, once you have a bearing offset and drop, offset and drop quicker you can draw triangles quicker you can get an accurate range on the bearing.
Great video! I really love how tense these battles are
One tiny thing I'm seeing is that you might be popping chaff a tad early. And now I'm curious about the "life" of chaff once deployed in-game... Also with chaff, and I've seen it happen in a few other Sea Power videos, is that while it works pretty well at times, if you have friendly ships *behind* the chaff deploying ship, the chaff effectively redirects the missile at them! This makes the formation really important
As you said in the video, your formation should never be static and should be modified once you learn where the enemy is attacking from. The question I have now is what's the best formation... I'm wondering if you should have your escorts in a "line" running along the angle of attack from the enemy so you have more chances to intercept enemy missiles? I haven't really studied modern naval formations or engagements, so a lot of this will be a huge learning experience for me. Suppose we'll figure all of these little complexities with time (and in my case, many horrible failures)
Cya in the next one!
I am most definitely popping the chaff way too early. I am definitely more of a flight simmer than a naval simmer so some of this has been me testing to see how things interact with each other. There is no tutorial in our build so we have to teach ourselves.
This ship was docked at my base in 1987. Very capable. Scrapped out now.
You need position your ships for CIWS to have line of sight to take on the antiship missiles. With the Oliver Hazard Perry the phalanx is on the stern so you need to cross the T with incoming missiles.
Really great video and solid narration! Thank you for recording, editing, and uploading this. Can't wait to see more. I hope you make some custom scenarios and upload them for the community! I know nothing about naval warfare but coming from the Combat Mission games, I'm super excited to learn this stuff and people like you make it possible to approach these games.
Remember, a search radar is not necessarily a track and lock radar. On ships, for the most part, they are mutually exclusive
Amazing game to watch, looks very promising!
Regarding your big idea at 19:42, it seems to me you'd want a couple of sonar buoys out with a couple of miles between them so that you can triangulate and get the exact position of the enemy contacts. After you dropped one, you only had a very imprecise estimation of their location for a good 5 mins before knowing more or less where they were while getting shot at. I imagine that situation could have developed very differently if you had either used the same helicopter to drop another buoy ASAP a few miles out orthogonal to the bearing of the enemy contacts or if you had had a second helicopter dropping another buoy at the same time as the first. Possibly this could have allowed you to pinpoint the source of the attacks earlier, allowing you to be aggressive much earlier.
Not sure if I will like playing the game but I've loved the videos you and the other creators are putting out on it. The game just naturally builds suspense.
Loved how the terminal pop-up maneuver of the Harpoon caused a couple of defending SAMs to miss.
Graphics are absolutely amazing, mechanics look so good ! cannot wait ! endless content with a mission maker
I think if you pop your chaff early, it might confuse your own cwis and give the computers on the missile (at least more advanced missiles) time to react to the chaff and use its ECM filters
Watching this I am getting navy flash backs, wow its well done.
This games soundtrack is amazing
I recall playing very similar scenarios in Harpoon. Results were similar too, if you let them detect you first, they'll overwhelm you with missiles. Helicopters make great scouts and you can use them to deceive your opponent by launching them and have them travel a parallel course but a number of miles off your track. Does Sea Power let you launch Harpoons with waypoints? I think that should be possible, so you could dog-leg the missile's course so they can't fire down the incoming bearing. Same trick as with Mk48s in Cold Waters
The OHP is my favorite ship to exist! Great video!
Ok that intro was crazy looked like I was watching a movie
Dunno if you’ll see this but I’m appreciative of these little intros you’re doing on this series
Great video. Really enjoyed it. I'm looking forward to seeing more and playing myself!
I'm officially a fan of this game...the ffg43 uss thach was the ship I was stationed on
this game look soooo promising.
Also, I would love to hear the "incoming, incoming, incoming" siren on the ship, like on the video of the one during the Gulf war
I think the main mistake was engaging too late. Could've combined the vector of the incoming anti-ship missiles, their distance and the early return from the sonobuoy (which confirmed a surface contact) to fire a handful of Harpoon snapshots. The missile boats had too much time to launch their stores.
Knox class has limited anti air defenses. Put the Perry class forward as an air picket. The Knox class is better suited as an anti submarine platform. Also launching your chaff way to early and make sure you turn out of it one you launch it.
I can see a sprint and drift order being very useful when screening.
Recommend always keeping a Knox class close to what it's supposed to protect because of the limited range of the Sea Sparrow.
You need to make sure your missile batteries are unmasked. The Knox class frigate’s sea sparrow missile launcher is on the stern, so it can’t engage targets to the ship’s front.
One tip i would give is for american ships go broadside onto incoming fire as itl allow your phalanx the best angle to fire and if your gonna get hit your gonna be hit anyways.
Man i wish i could send a mission idea to you, cant wait to get my hands on this myself
24:04 the crew will be crapping bricks lol
I’d like to give you some tips as an active soldier. These are not specifically related to the Navy, but more general advice.
Your first priority should be gathering information. Be careful not to get spotted yourself while doing this. Think of it like a sniper who, while moving around, uses his scope or binoculars to scout out interesting points. Applied to maritime operations, as mentioned in other comments, you use helicopters. I haven’t noticed any range limitations for the helicopters yet, so I’m assuming they can fly 'very far or unlimited.'
Depending on the situation you’re in and how many assets you have available, I would place at least one sonar buoy behind the formation to detect any followers. Then, secure the flanks with two helicopters and possibly fly ahead with a third.
I’m not certain about the detection range of the buoys, but I would place them about 10-15 nm apart.
With the third helicopter, go up to around 3000 ft and use its air-to-surface radar, if possible only periodically. Keep the other two flying low.
Secondly, I would generally think about where an enemy could come from and adjust the formation accordingly. In the case of this mission, it was clear from the map that maritime enemies could only come from the north-northwest to north-northeast. Therefore, I would have placed one FF (frigate) at the front and the other FF on the left flank of the formation, with the freighters in the center or on the right flank.
In limited scenarios, I wouldn’t be too conservative with my missiles-engage targets quickly.
I would position the formation of the ships close enough so that the CIWS (Close-In Weapon Systems) can cover each other. The helicopters and/or planes should be used with a wide spread, at least for reconnaissance purposes. Additionally, only activate their sensors when the distance from the fleet is large enough.
I would have launched 2 copters at the start and had them reconning way forward of the ships. They would have seen those planes and ships before they fired. Just had to worry about the planes having anti air missles. Also, I put my ships on weapons hold after they fired a volley of missles at the incoming shots. To save missles for other targets. Wasted 6 missles with no targets to hit. Put the ship with the lower range weapons out front of formation. To help with shots on targets. Good idea about firing before the missles were in range tho. Ran right into your missles.
Great logo. I doubt the Phalanx would miss like that.
Problem fleets had in that era was the Sea Sparrow was damn awful. By time CIWS kicks off at the speed of some anti ship missiles you’ve basically got one second to engage and hit before you’re hit. The jump up to supersonic sea skimming capability was fantastic.
Big fan of the Red October intro text :D
I'm surprised there are no harpoons in the pepperbox launcher. Those ASROC launchers were capable of launching them.
awsome gameplay, cant wait to land my hands on it
This looks pretty cool, I'll have to check it out
The model for the Halyburton is wrong, she should be a long hull OHP, not a short hull. She needs an extra 8 feet on her fantail, and she should be able to carry SH-60s and have the RAST system on the flight deck. You can tell Halyburton is modeled as a short hull OHP by the lack of a step down on the fantail to keep the aft capstain flush with the flightdeck (this is to allow SH-60s to not have their tail rotor hit it).
I literaly can´t wait. This looks so promising.
November's gonna be wild - this and MSFS2024!
This game looks interesting, at first look I thought it maybe based on DCS engine, but I see it's microprose not ED. Keep the videos coming, as I may have to get my wallet out when sea paper releases in November!
Don’t understand why the air AI just continues without reaction when locked up and targeted by SAMs. Pilots are literally flying directly into low energy SAMs that they should have known were coming. Maybe they were actually tasked with intercepting SAMs with their airframes?
The used Anti Air missiles (Sea Sparrow and SM 1 MR) in the game are Semi-active radar homing missiles. That means they are not working with an own radar to fly to the target. They are guided by the ships radar. The enemy pilot knows that he is detected by an Airborne radar and/or fire control radar but not that a missile is on the way. Of course, he can assume that a missile is on the way when he is picked up by a fire control radar. The problem is only that he doesn’t know where the missile is because the missile is not working with an own radar.
I served in the German Navy for 12 years from 1986 to 1998. Last position Chief of Radar and Fire Control on German PGFG´s (fast patrol boats in corvette size with 2 x 3-inch guns, anti-ship missiles and wired controlled anti-ship torpedoes).
That makes the game so interesting for me because it is playing in a time where I was in active service.
I've seen the AI go cold or beam to incoming missiles, but as another commenter said it's hard to know if they are being shot at due to the fact that the SM-1MR is a SARH missile
@@ilovenavalgames1988 SARH missiles can still give a launch warning, as typically the frequencies used for search and track are different and the beam required for a missile to find a target is much narrower and higher strenght
@@ilovenavalgames1988 I guess we should say, "Danke, for your service!" 😁👍👍
arghhhh it's a pain to know I have to wait 2 month (... or more) to get this amazing game ^^
I'm jealous... 🥺
Good Show
Not an easy mission with those assets.
Love this, reminds me of Jane’s Fleet Command which was superb. The game is still amazing just very outdated graphics.
2:15
THE SNAIL IS EVERYWHERE
Needed to get the Helos up earlier and higher and stay Emcon more.
Well, at some point, you thought loudly of getting closer to a missile boat to be able to hit it better if the Harpoons miss. What were you thinking, like guns range closer? Actually, you could have been way better off engaging them on a longer distance. Especially since your Harpoons have an about 5 nm longer range then the opponent's SSN-9's, so the best tactic I would suggest would be to shoot the harpoons at max range and turn southwards to stay out of their range. And shoot about 3 per target in about 10 sec. apart. High chance of hitting and practically 0% of being hit.
Can't wait to design missions in the southern atlantic
Greetings from Russia! It's a pity two little Nanuchka-class corvette :_C But the last one showed up pretty well!
You are too sorry for the traps against radar missiles. Ship-type traps, as far as I know, are needed to cover the ship, i.e. a huge cloud is created that prevents the radar from understanding where the target is, and not as in airplanes, diverts the target to itself. So you need to drop the trap in front of you (in front of the rocket) so that it covers you.
Also, do not forget to throw several sea buoys at once, because this works according to the triangulation method :)
I am glad to see your videos, they are very good
That marquee alone makes me feel like I am watching a Tom Clancy movie.
Just realized I'm getting serious Silent Hunter vibes from the sound track.
Weird a OHP shouldn’t have a SPS-67 should have a SPS-55. For sim may not make a difference but different band radars. All the Knox class I remember had SPS-10s, but could have been some. The band would have been the same at least.
Is this gonna be like Cold Waters where distances are super compressed? Or like Fleet Command where its all 1:1?
Good question, keen to know also
Should be 1:1 as far as I know
It's all 1:1
@@pandemiceclipse6596 thanks!
@@martinleidel thanks
Will you be able to put that Tactical Display on a second monitor?
Oliver Hazard Perrys always give me WGRD Naval Flashbacks
Who was oliver h. perry?
Looks like a great game would love to see some canadian assests brought in like 2nd tribal class destroyers
I dont know why people are comparing this to cold waters. This is all Fleet command game play. My only question or conern is why November 🥺🥺😭😭 Its our game and we want it now!
It’s made by the same lead developer and the creator of the DOT mod 😊
Looks really good. Can you play for the Red side as well?
Yes. Ironically I usually end up playing the non-Americans in most games, for whatever reason all the videos that came out were just American ones. The sonar video I am working on is from the Soviet perspective.
@@Enigma89 Perfect. This looks really interesting Oh, and the tile of the video made me think of different escorts. 😀 Thanks for the upload!
That was a hard scenario to have 0 losses on
This game feels like a clunkier Command Modern Operations but with a beautiful graphical representation
The destruction animation could have been better. Comes off like something from early 2000's
Hey Enigma, can you make a mission showing us some Air-To-Air fighting? It would be nice to see like a 4v4 and how it goes down!
I hope in new adding like DDR Folksmarine or Italian Navy in future
Your helicopters have surface radars and can fly much higher than a ship :)
I did not know if there were more planes out there or if there were ships with SAMs so I was nervous to fly them really high and start emitting a radar.
@@Enigma89 In other naval games, it is perfectly valid to just have them hovering high over your fleet. So within your air defense bubble but extends your surface detection 10x fold.
@@Jammybee Nice idea
2:24 - assume direct control - that looks interesting!
You said that there is limited ammo on ships, etc is it possible to get them resupplied?
Can you change the weather?
I wonder if you could do better by spreading your warships out. You’ve got them in basically the same spot. If you spread them out you could guard different vectors.
Nah they should be closer together for overlapping defense fields
ah they have the fleet command style right click commands
October will be a very looooong month -_-"
Does this game allow you to engage surface targets with Standard SAMs? You could do this in the Cold Water surface mod. While technically correct, I always preferred using proper anti ship missiles to engage ships. Guys would take a Perry class into huge engagement. They didn't look at it as having four harpoons and 36 SM-1s. They looked at it as having 40 anti-ship missiles, taking on a Slava and a couple of Kashins. No real life Perry skipper in his right mind would do that. Anyways, my two cents. Looks like a cool game. Thanks for putting this out.
19:16
_Neuron activation..._
Does this game include any ships with VLS?
from what i have seen its got Toco class cruisers and Burk class destroyers but i think they are early configurations with twin launchers instead of VLS but i could be wrong
I hope they do VLS tico's , USS Bunker hill was the first and commissioned in 86.
As for NATO I haven’t seen a modernized Tico or Burke
it has subs with VLS like oscarr class, los anngeles and so on
There hasnt been a single video of sea power that ive watched where the CWIS did something lol
Just bad luck, it def has hit missiles in my play session when I am not recording
@@Enigma89 which would you say is more realistic. DCS CRAM/CWIS or sea power CWIS?
Hah, I wonder what that Floggers were hoping for. Hit your ships with guns and rockets? ASMs were never fitted to them, as far as I know.
I'd like to see MiG-23A and its weapons: actually this navalized Flogger was never put into production
They were firing groms
Can we play the Soviets in this one? Or I should wait to for moders to do it?
it sure automatically slow down as soon as new contact appears?
Disappointed in the destruction graphics in this game. Reminds me of something from the early 2000's
If you miss a message, there is a log you can pull up.
Is the track at 6:44 part of an in game soundtrack?
yes
Will this game have an open campaign?