That was the case more than 40 years ago. In the 1985 second edition of his textbook titled Synthesis, Moog synthesizer co-inventor Herbert A Deutsch included anecdotage in the pros about fast-evolving technology.
Yeah, the robots suck. But of all the people on the planet that should own one I'd say a dude building a Gibson museum should be on that short list. After all you're gonna have to have a "Hall of Follies" in a dark corner of your museum if you want it to be complete.
They never seem to get the tuning right with the digital tuners so I had to individually tune each string anyways I ripped it out and got a set of locking tuners works much better I'm happy with that I was going to try a Gibson tp6 fine tune tailpiece but I didn't feel like going through all that trouble
I love my 2009 Gibson Dusk Tiger that Gibson yanked out all the electronics and put in two bass pickups and sold it in the Demo Shop on Reverb. Light weight, satin finish and sounds very good
Hey Trogly, I thought I mention a guitar brand to you. They are literally called the Signature guitar company. They only existed for 3 years from 1987-1990. Alex Lifeson famously used them for a few years before switching to PRS. Anyway there aren't many in existence and they are rarely for sale anywhere. They were also made with a rare variant of alder for the body. Anyway they are interesting guitars and nobody has really documented them like you do. I just thought I would put it on your radar.
I wanna see what Trogly thinks of a Texas Toast as well (would be awesome for him to fly out to CO and do their build course too ... would be great content)
Robotuners were meant to make your guitar all in one kind of thing. If you play 5 covers and each one is in a different tuning it takes a few clicks to change it. Sure, you can do it manually but it is way more effort. Not really worth it when you have time to play these 5 songs only. Of course it will not be perfect as you should adjust the saddles and the truss rod. But for home use it is good enough. Not worse than turning the machine heads manually.
I bought one and spent about a day with the tuners and decided it was not for me. It didn't help that it was a head of guitar plus it came in a giant aluminum rectangular case. I took it back. I got an awesome deal on it but it didn't sit well with me to got it and replace all the tuners and electronics. It had a titanium nut as well. It's too bad cuz it was a sharp-looking guitar.
Actually Gibson prices are higher than some decades ago. Bought my LP Custom brand new in oct/93 for $1500 which adjusted to inflation is $3275 now. A regular custom nowadays is $5500 list price. And even if you get the usual 15% street price discount it will be $4675, way higher than in the 90s.
I honestly enjoyed the Dark Fire back in the day and remember it sounding better than it does here. I didn't own one but got to play one, and it was really versitile but I mostly played it in the texas blues setting. I didn't love the robo tuners but the guitar itself was fun and kinda cool at the time. I wasn't quite the guitar snob I am today at the time and liked experimentation. I was figuring out what I liked. Admitedly, I was also drinking the Gibson Coolaid and they could have done anything, and I would have thought it was cool.
Salutations Austin! I agree with you, the guitar itself is perfectly fine, and I actually like some of the features, like the fact that it has an unbound neck, thus it has no fret nibs. The finish is nice, and I like some of the details, such as the fret inlays and the pickup covers, which are unique and set them apart from other models. I think if I had one of these guitars, I would carefully remove the robot unit and the other controls and rewire the entire guitar in a way that it could still use the piezoelectric pickup, and the electric pickups, in a more conventional way, that would be much more intuitive, and possibly use more push/pull potentiometers to facilitate the use of all of the pickups, and to enable coil splits on the electric pickups, and I would also replace the P-90 pickup with one that is stacked, and the humbucker with a coil splittable version, to achieve a variety of sound combinations. I would retain the pickup selector switch and knob to use for blending in the piezo pickup, as it currently operates. I would carefully store the original components for use later, in the event that it would be wanted at some time in the future. Thanks for sharing! Please have an excellent and awesome day! 🎸
I had one & liked how easy it was to change into another tuning with the G-Force system. but in the end, I couldn't warm up to the wide neck. Didn't keep it very long.
My wife bought me one in 2009. It hangs on the wall now to look at. I used it quite a bit for about a year and then things started going wrong with the automatic tuners. I'd try tunning it and the tuners would spin until it started snapping strings. That's when the final frustration set in and it ended up a wall hanger. Even before that though, I quickly found out that you could bend strings hard enough to physically pull the guitar out of tune, watching the tuners spin as it happened. They didn't have much gripping power. I even pulled it out of tune once on stage just by strumming too hard. Fortunately, I was able to hit my tuner to mute the guitar, quickly pull up on the control knob, strum it twice, and was back in business for the rest of the song. Annoying. I keep threatening to pull the tuners and replace them with a regular set. I never used the active electronics to begin with, but the guitar sounded and looked good, so I may still do that one day.
Replacing the tuners with regulars is a half an hour process. Definitely worth doing if that makes you play it more because the guitar itself is super cool
There was one more Robot Guitar, the 2010 Les Paul "Limited Edition". It had a slightly dated version of the Tronical Robot system with replaceable batteries that could be charged outside of the guitar. It came in the "Fireball" finish, had a bound neck.
I think a couple other people made this observation, but best course of action is replace all the components related to the Tronical system with traditional parts. The rechargable battery packs on these are failing so it will be bricked soon enough. From what I understand those packs can't be replaced, and why would anyone want to? I have the '08 fancy studio red metallic with the bound neck and headstock, ebony board and the frog inlay which is no longer roboticized and it'a a great guitar.
Yeah I really liked the look of this one. I could see swapping out all the electronics. But then again, you lose this wacky historic anomaly by doing so...
He has a couple stock Gibson Les Paul standards that had a TransPerformance self tuning system installed by Neil Skinn in 1991. Totally cool guitars, and definitely ahead of its time. They can tune to any tuning in a matter of seconds! Jimmy seemed to like them as he used one for Zeppelin’s last show. I believe he has 3
An even more unpopular opinion ... Have loved my Dark Fire since I bought it new. Auto-tuning is done within 3 seconds, no matter which tuning is chosen. The tone that the transducer pickups add is almost like having an acoustic guitar. The burstbucker and "P 90" pickups give me a great flexibility in terms of tonal choices. And, personally, I think the front is beautiful. OK, the expected downside is the only problem I've ever had with it. The battery finally died after many years of use, and no direct replacement is available. So I use a remote control car battery, and have to charge it between gigs. 😖 Guess I got the only good one ever made? 🤷♂️
Does yours have the Axcess heel? I picked up a 2016 Studio HP with Axcess heel, g-force tuners, and the original aluminum Gibson case for stupid cheap...at least I thought so, just over $1200. I replaced the tuners with Hipshots because I wanted to be able to return it to a Robot in OE condition. It's a great guitar.
I have the exact same guitar, in wine red. I've still got the robot tuners on, but keep swearing I'll buy some locking tuners, every time I replace the strings! Got mine for a great price in the UK (£1200), with the ridiculous winnebago aluminium case…. The adjustable nut, gold hardware and easy access heal are still elements I love on this guitar. It plays like a dream.
@@RandyMcKernanit’s just a meme from people who don’t like Gibson. They seem useful to me. The problem was they didn’t support it long after release. It would have caught on with commitment and some artist users tbh.
Man, the case and the guitar itself are BEAUTIFUL and RIGHT up my ally. Wow, do these things suck, though. Could go without the fiber inlays, they look like tape, lol.
I have a Pelham Blue Firebird with the robo tuners. It can be a bit overwhelming, and make damn sure you keep the battery charged. The robo’s are great when changing strings.
This was my PC background for years after it came out. It was the best looking guitar I'd ever seen and I was super into modding at the time so it seemed perfect. Guess you should never meet your heroes but I do hope I can try one someday.
I love the g force tuners on my SG, I have ‘with and without’ Gibsons but It is useful being able to access different tunings so easily. Takes the strain out of band rehearsals when you can turn up with one guitar.
I worked at ART (formerly MXR) back in the day. A company reached out to us about our midi controller. They would modify guitars with 6 servo motors in the body to change the tuning. The guitar had buttons along the neck pickup to change presets. Jimmy Page had a few built for live performances and one of them was on display at the “play it loud” exhibit a few years ago. I heard Gibson bought that technology and turned it into the robot guitar.
i never understood the hate on these guitars. i recently found one for 1300€ and i was tempted to buy it although i was looking for a prs. but they are decent guitars and they offer a lot for the price. you get a decent gibson construction, low weight, great tops, piezo, neutrik locking jack, nice sculpted bridge that does not poke your hand when palm muting, strap locks and the pickups are great and a great combo. also some other nice details like the recessed screws in the pickup ring etc most people just crap on the autotuning system for being complicated and unreliable but you dont have to use it. and i have played guitars worth 3 times the amount that cant hold a tune. i bet if they released an "upgrade kit" where you can control all the electonics from an app in your phone via bluetooth nobody would have anything negative to say about them. only thing i personally dont like about them is that silly scratchplate that you cant remove cause it leaves screw holes behind
I picked up a Gen1 SG Robot on clearance. It was a floor model so several tuners were broken and I had to find a place to get them fixed. It worked OK, but had severe fret sprout that cracked the finish. I need to get it out again and see what I want to do with it.
I remember the robot tuning guitars when they debuted. This one despite all the gizmos is a really sharp looking guitar IMHO. Glad you found a really clean example too 👍
It sounds like a tin can radio! I think the hallow chamber design with p90 and humbucker resonates all the frequencies up to an untamable brightness. It needs a lower end frequency neck pickup to tame this wild fire. They were almost there with this one, it just needed a little more time in the oven. Swap that pickup out for a 57 or something lower in the spectrum and I think it will spread out the dynamic range to a place that doesn’t screech the whole time and gives the piezo a place to live.
Yes. Yes that's true. You think the fanbase'/haters' logic is their strong suit? It's almost as if we're ignorant fickle creatures that generally don't judge things correctly
Although I agree. I think some of this can be attributed to many of the innovations being impractical, gimmicky or just not what the modern players wanted. Stainless steel frets, compound radius fretboards and adding a volute plus changing the headstock angle to reduce risk of headstock breaks would likely be welcome changes. Instead, they went with robot tuners & crazy electronics which become faulty or outdated with time. Their innovations seemed to miss the mark and that’s where I think some of the backlash lies.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think that thing is cool as hell. We have a local band here that does local bar gigs all around town. Think Saturday afternoon at your local dive bar with good food and a big patio. Typical patio bar band, 3 dudes, bass player/singer, drummer with two toms and cymbals, guitar player/singer with an acoustic electric and pedals, and a rhythm machine. 5-10 song sets of mostly classic rock and some country with vastly different tonal ranges.. Dudes are pretty damn good. The time between songs is bathroom break time if you know what I mean. I can really see this guitar making sense for this band once the guitarist masters the tone swaps.
You have to know how to use that digital tuner if you press the button and it's set on a low E string tuning it will go to that mode what you have to do is you have to adjust the digital tuner so it goes to standard tuning
Wouldn't hate on it. Looks good. Likely change the strings 100 times before I'd figure it out. Also... it's gonna break. Everything does. Wonder what parts cost if available ?
This is a nice one. Id keep it if i could get one. Same with the FirebireX like aguafish you should get a signature trogley dragon Spotlight special limited run
Robot tuners are very useful when you are on stage and you can’t hear your own guitar. Checking the tuning between songs is very fast. Volume down, Push 1 button and 1 strum and it’s all back in tune and ready to go. I have a Strat and a LP, both fitted with robot tuners and their accuracy is spot on.
This is a very cool thing with all the original boxes, CD and cables etc. History tells us these things go through a fashion to firewood cycle. Because they are hopeless many will get converted or scrapped / remade. Just pack it for long-term storage and forget about it. One day it will be highly collectible. For what it is, it's great.
Neck tenon is an enlarged one, I think the 2008/09 onwards Les Paul Standards also used them for a while. I had a chambered Les Paul Standard with one and it was a great guitar.
I have the 2010 Les Paul robot, very similar. It's easily the handsomest guitar I own, but the MCK had to be super-glued back together at one point, which is discouraging, and all the tone settings seemed like a solution in search of a problem (which some would also say about the robotuners I guess, but I actually loved those). I believe the tone settings are all just mixes of the various inputs, so it's not like there are any real effects in play. Kinda like with the tuning, it's just doing something for you that you could have done yourself.
I have the Traditional Pro III and it is a non robot version that came that way/ was built in 2016. Vintage sunburst with at least an AA+ maple top. I got reaaaaly lucky because it is a very beautiful looking and amazing sounding axe. It has every single feature I could ever need or want from coil splitting & decibel boost. It sounds so incredible
I really like it. :) About that robot stuff: I have the Gibson 50's Tribute SG with a Tronical tuner. I modified the guitar seriously (bridge P90 swapped for a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the P90 format), creme covers and other creme parts etc.) but the tronical tuner is actually quite funny as long as I don't have to change the strings, when I always have to check again how to do that. But there's no more of that Robot stuff in there. I have a Line6 Variax 600 for that. :D
the firebird x is a great looking guitar. i love everything about the shape and the smaller headstock, the possibilities with pickup arrangements. it's a shame Gibson doesn't reintroduce it as a regular guitar.
I put used robot tuners in my J45. I only keep it in standard tuning or half step down. Maybe im just lucky but I turn it on, hit all the strings and it tunes it perfectly. Looks better than a Snark, and quicker. I know one person that had bad experience on stage. Mine is a couch guitar, and 5 years in i still have no issues. All the bad press on these things tells me half of it is user error.
I bought a 2014 Futura, inverness green. It see's daylight once, maybe twice a year. Everyone that see's it work is amazed! I love it because it's different. How many guitars, held no interest when new, but were coveted and recreated later? 59 burst anyone?😊
What kind of cable are you using? Looks cool. Btw, I believe the truss rod cover is anodized aluminum. Anodizing is an electric process where pigment is essentially charged into the metal. Old P Basses and some Jazzmaster had anodized gold aluminum pick guards, but you probably knew that but.
THANKS for this! I had almost completely forgotten these ever existed. These stick out in my mind because my nephew was interested in getting one. I don't know if he ever did. One thing - can you imagine if these REALLY caught on? That case...it pretty much says, STEAL THIS GUITAR!! Anyway, I see this more as a studio / home use guitar. Lots of good tones on it, which on stage would take a LOT of fussing with an amp to insure a good sound blend and balance. It certainly is a great curiosity piece. Happy New Year Trog!!
Color is great. I would just redo it like a regular Les Paul. If it didn’t look so good I’d probably leave it as an oddity. You can also just use your thumb on the neutrix Jack. Easy when you’re standing up and it’s on a strap.
I honestly would love one of these. Are they a bit stupid? Yes, but just like the gothic and voodoo series, they're so stupid that they go back around to being cool
I have a robotic Les Paul. It’s ok but it doesn’t stay in tune very well and they’re a pain to restring. Mine is the original with the flat black finish.
I love the looks, especially the headstock with that trussrod cover. Love the pick up combination. Okay with the robot tuner, but I will wired it traditionally, and ditch all the tech on it
Isn't it a bit strange that Gibson that once invested a lot of money into this failed automated tuning system now won't adopt the proven Evertune product?
I was expecting it to not work the way everyone talked about it. but it works fine, the tuning sounds fine. It sounds good as a les Paul. It's no more difficult to use that a digital effects pedal like a G3Xn. After watching this I don't understand why it gets hate. The comments make it sound like it constantly malfunctions and doesn't tune correctly and that it does not have any redeeming qualities. I saw the opposite.
Thanks for the video. The robot tuners are no reason not to buy a Gibson at the right price and were often included with more expensive models as a marketing 'extra' value item to help support the cost of first purchase, even when independent dealers were calling them out as adding little, except weight and annoyance - no regular guitar player needs auto tuners - it takes seconds and many can tune by ear. I bought an SG HP with with robot tuners in 2018 c/w lots of nice CS style upgrades including titanium zero fret and bridge pins, 57's, military grade switching, CTS, rosewood etc in the only decent colour :) deep heritage cherry with the grain just showing through. I did this knowing the tuners were going in the bin before the first gig - no problem, $90 and a set of locking Gotohs with easy fit and no drilling - done. On a guitar costing $1700 this wasn't even a question - and it has helped the neck dive with a wide sued strap. FYI - the guitar required a set up, the second fret required levelling (guitar was plek fret levelled at factory - I will put that down to transit) and the 6th string was binding at the nut when switched to 11's, sorted. The 57's actually smoothed out the highs somewhat - with the Titanium this guitar is very clean, clear and a touch bright. Beautiful though, and a keeper.
Years ago when the gen 1 robot guitars came out, I went to guitar center to try one out. I plugged it in and tried the robot tuners and started playing a melt your face off solo and almost instantly sparks, and I mean a bunch of sparks went shooting out of the bridge pickup and yes I literally pulled an ace frehley move and almost burned down the whole store as a result. I told one of the guitar techs about it. I'm pretty sure that's when the recall first happened.
At band practice in a poorly wired basement, I fused two of the strings to the frets and burned my lips on a phantom powered microphone one time. The strings broke you can see the little welding spots where the string welded to the fret lol.
@@216trixie😮 Yikes! Thanks for the heads up. Note to self: don't play my Dark Fire until I safety-test the power outlet and check for voltage between the strings and the mic! 🙄
cool gadgets, but i'm just not too confident in those multi-function switches. what happens when one of them breaks? a switch that moves in complex ways, and houses a multi-colored display, has more chance to fail due to its complexity. just give me some big round military-grade potentiometers to turn, and maybe a big heavy-duty button to push. i like big buttons.
Cool looking guitar. I’m in the nothing risked nothing gained perspective. I can respect Gibson for attempting to do something different than the norm even if it is things players don’t want. I can appreciate it for what it is rather than what we think it should be. Trog’s correct if this would’ve been executed better it could’ve been a game changer for the company.
Actually pretty cool, tempting. I just don’t like the finishing in terms of the binding and colour. White binding would have been cooler, maybe a silverburst. A bucket head version would be very cool.
Not that it matters all too much but sam Ash is still out there and in business. They just opened a new flagship store in the city and teamed up with the Gonher Music Group out of Mexico.
This is a perfect example of what guitar and music instrument makers do come NAMM time. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should.." They put all these bells and whistles and tech into flashy new products and hype them up with ridiculous hyperbole but it is stuff nobody asked for and ends up having no real practical value to working musicians. That is why I love when companies are headed up by musicians who simply ask "What would I or other musicians want? What problem do they have that needs to be solved in a real way with out flash and tech for the sake of it?" I think that is why guitars are so traditional and haven't really changed much in all these decades. We don't need much and if it isn't broken why fix it?
I recently managed to get a Robot Explorer Prototype. The tuners were replaced with regular ones. I have no intention of selling it so I might have the guts pulled so I have a normal guitar. It’s a cool plum metallic finish
Its interesting that the battery in yours is still alive. Some of the dark fires had an upgrade that gave them swapable batteries instead of the internal ones.
I think that would be a keeper for me it is definitely unique it actually sounds great and I think it would make a nice addition to your collection just to have and Save but if you want to sell it I would check into that myself
I actually really love all the aesthetic choices abot this guitar. The black and carbon fiber trimmings, the deep red with that figured top, the REALLY thick binding on the body... Just sucks about all the pointless electronics lol. Also wish it had black or smoked hardware. THe piezo is cool too at least.
Ive gotten qear thart had a floppy disc as well as what a call a cereal box 45 rpm and a DVD. Im surprised nothing ever came on a flash drive. At least it looks like this guitar came with all or msybe most of what came with it. Love that top . That truss rod cover looks like painted aluminum.
61 here what's a robot guitar? Self tuning with effects what. I never heard of these the firebird x looks cool. What did you say law suits? Thanx Trogly these are freaky
The crazy thing about tech, it's out of date before it hits the shelf.
sometimes it’s wayyyyyyyy too ahead of its time that no one wants to use/get used to it
That was the case more than 40 years ago. In the 1985 second edition of his textbook titled Synthesis, Moog synthesizer co-inventor Herbert A Deutsch included anecdotage in the pros about fast-evolving technology.
"The crazy thing about tech, it's out of date before it hits the shelf."
... and it's accelerating and getting worse, year after year.
then comes the recalls and updates, and can't forget the cancer causing proposition warnings
Yeah, the robots suck. But of all the people on the planet that should own one I'd say a dude building a Gibson museum should be on that short list. After all you're gonna have to have a "Hall of Follies" in a dark corner of your museum if you want it to be complete.
You really honestly think there is gonna be a museum??
I took out that digital tuning mechanism and I put in locking tuners they work much better
They never seem to get the tuning right with the digital tuners so I had to individually tune each string anyways I ripped it out and got a set of locking tuners works much better I'm happy with that I was going to try a Gibson tp6 fine tune tailpiece but I didn't feel like going through all that trouble
@@philbarrows424 I dunno, but Trogly seems to think so.
But overall I think the guitar has a lot of tonal versatility
I love my 2009 Gibson Dusk Tiger that Gibson yanked out all the electronics and put in two bass pickups and sold it in the Demo Shop on Reverb. Light weight, satin finish and sounds very good
Hey Trogly, I thought I mention a guitar brand to you. They are literally called the Signature guitar company. They only existed for 3 years from 1987-1990. Alex Lifeson famously used them for a few years before switching to PRS. Anyway there aren't many in existence and they are rarely for sale anywhere. They were also made with a rare variant of alder for the body. Anyway they are interesting guitars and nobody has really documented them like you do. I just thought I would put it on your radar.
I wanna see what Trogly thinks of a Texas Toast as well (would be awesome for him to fly out to CO and do their build course too ... would be great content)
Alex Lifeson was a partner in the Signature Guitar business too. I think it was a venture between him and Russ Heinl.
That firebird X clip breaks my heart still. What were they thinking?
Cheaper to write them off than sell them at massive discounts.
@@joermnycthey should have given them away, bit then again, i understand why the brass didn’t want them on the secondary market…
Tax Advantage
@ but to film it.
@ yea, clear show of arrogance
I have to admit seeing the robotuners in action is cool. A totally unnecessary addition, but cool 😂
Robotuners were meant to make your guitar all in one kind of thing. If you play 5 covers and each one is in a different tuning it takes a few clicks to change it. Sure, you can do it manually but it is way more effort. Not really worth it when you have time to play these 5 songs only. Of course it will not be perfect as you should adjust the saddles and the truss rod. But for home use it is good enough. Not worse than turning the machine heads manually.
I love the lounge music during the tune up!!!
It cracked me up
Holy moly, that entire tuning bit with the monotonous elevator music was so, SO frustrating… Thanks for documenting this monstrosity.
That wasn't the tuning cycle. That was the guitar auto-tightening the new strings he just put on it.
@@RandyMcKernan every time it tightened up the low E and then immediately untightened it, I screamed a little in my head lol
Really wanted to hear that Metal setting in Drop D, missed opportunity to test the alternate tuning mode Trog...
Worked pretty hard for this demo...out of your comfort zone.
Smoked Plastics
Counter sunk pup screws
Anodized truss rod cover
I bought one and spent about a day with the tuners and decided it was not for me. It didn't help that it was a head of guitar plus it came in a giant aluminum rectangular case. I took it back. I got an awesome deal on it but it didn't sit well with me to got it and replace all the tuners and electronics. It had a titanium nut as well. It's too bad cuz it was a sharp-looking guitar.
We say Gibson is expensive now (which they def are) but some models 15 years ago are even more than a 2024 Supreme..
If you adjust for inflation on the $3350 tag price from 2009 to 2024 it would be just a little over $5000. Absolutely wild price.
@kdchrm And that $3350 is a discounted price...
People never adjust the current prices for inflation, guitar's and most luxury items are actually cheaper or equal than they were even in the 50's.
Actually Gibson prices are higher than some decades ago. Bought my LP Custom brand new in oct/93 for $1500 which adjusted to inflation is $3275 now. A regular custom nowadays is $5500 list price. And even if you get the usual 15% street price discount it will be $4675, way higher than in the 90s.
@@glaucosouza1971 Sorry my bad, you are right. I only looked at Standard prices.
I honestly enjoyed the Dark Fire back in the day and remember it sounding better than it does here. I didn't own one but got to play one, and it was really versitile but I mostly played it in the texas blues setting. I didn't love the robo tuners but the guitar itself was fun and kinda cool at the time. I wasn't quite the guitar snob I am today at the time and liked experimentation. I was figuring out what I liked. Admitedly, I was also drinking the Gibson Coolaid and they could have done anything, and I would have thought it was cool.
Salutations Austin!
I agree with you, the guitar itself is perfectly fine, and I actually like some of the features, like the fact that it has an unbound neck, thus it has no fret nibs.
The finish is nice, and I like some of the details, such as the fret inlays and the pickup covers, which are unique and set them apart from other models.
I think if I had one of these guitars, I would carefully remove the robot unit and the other controls and rewire the entire guitar in a way that it could still use the piezoelectric pickup, and the electric pickups, in a more conventional way, that would be much more intuitive, and possibly use more push/pull potentiometers to facilitate the use of all of the pickups, and to enable coil splits on the electric pickups, and I would also replace the P-90 pickup with one that is stacked, and the humbucker with a coil splittable version, to achieve a variety of sound combinations.
I would retain the pickup selector switch and knob to use for blending in the piezo pickup, as it currently operates.
I would carefully store the original components for use later, in the event that it would be wanted at some time in the future.
Thanks for sharing!
Please have an excellent and awesome day!
🎸
I had one & liked how easy it was to change into another tuning with the G-Force system. but in the end, I couldn't warm up to the wide neck. Didn't keep it very long.
My wife bought me one in 2009. It hangs on the wall now to look at. I used it quite a bit for about a year and then things started going wrong with the automatic tuners. I'd try tunning it and the tuners would spin until it started snapping strings. That's when the final frustration set in and it ended up a wall hanger. Even before that though, I quickly found out that you could bend strings hard enough to physically pull the guitar out of tune, watching the tuners spin as it happened. They didn't have much gripping power. I even pulled it out of tune once on stage just by strumming too hard. Fortunately, I was able to hit my tuner to mute the guitar, quickly pull up on the control knob, strum it twice, and was back in business for the rest of the song. Annoying. I keep threatening to pull the tuners and replace them with a regular set. I never used the active electronics to begin with, but the guitar sounded and looked good, so I may still do that one day.
Replacing the tuners with regulars is a half an hour process. Definitely worth doing if that makes you play it more because the guitar itself is super cool
There was one more Robot Guitar, the 2010 Les Paul "Limited Edition". It had a slightly dated version of the Tronical Robot system with replaceable batteries that could be charged outside of the guitar. It came in the "Fireball" finish, had a bound neck.
Les Paul CM 2015 was the best of them by far.
I absolutely love my Dark Fire.
Love mine too! 🤩
Love mine aswell, battery and functions all still work 100% in 2025
I think a couple other people made this observation, but best course of action is replace all the components related to the Tronical system with traditional parts. The rechargable battery packs on these are failing so it will be bricked soon enough. From what I understand those packs can't be replaced, and why would anyone want to? I have the '08 fancy studio red metallic with the bound neck and headstock, ebony board and the frog inlay which is no longer roboticized and it'a a great guitar.
Yeah I really liked the look of this one. I could see swapping out all the electronics. But then again, you lose this wacky historic anomaly by doing so...
The idea is great. Execution difficult. Didn’t Jimmy page have some kind of self tuning guitar in the 90s that Gibson made? Were those any good?
He has a couple stock Gibson Les Paul standards that had a TransPerformance self tuning system installed by Neil Skinn in 1991. Totally cool guitars, and definitely ahead of its time. They can tune to any tuning in a matter of seconds! Jimmy seemed to like them as he used one for Zeppelin’s last show. I believe he has 3
Unpopular opinion, but I love my 2016 Studio HP with the G-Force tuners
An even more unpopular opinion ...
Have loved my Dark Fire since I bought it new. Auto-tuning is done within 3 seconds, no matter which tuning is chosen. The tone that the transducer pickups add is almost like having an acoustic guitar. The burstbucker and "P 90" pickups give me a great flexibility in terms of tonal choices. And, personally, I think the front is beautiful.
OK, the expected downside is the only problem I've ever had with it. The battery finally died after many years of use, and no direct replacement is available. So I use a remote control car battery, and have to charge it between gigs. 😖
Guess I got the only good one ever made? 🤷♂️
I own a Gibson Double Cut HP. I’ve never had any issues with the G-Force Tuners. I find them very convenient.
Does yours have the Axcess heel? I picked up a 2016 Studio HP with Axcess heel, g-force tuners, and the original aluminum Gibson case for stupid cheap...at least I thought so, just over $1200. I replaced the tuners with Hipshots because I wanted to be able to return it to a Robot in OE condition. It's a great guitar.
I have the exact same guitar, in wine red. I've still got the robot tuners on, but keep swearing I'll buy some locking tuners, every time I replace the strings! Got mine for a great price in the UK (£1200), with the ridiculous winnebago aluminium case…. The adjustable nut, gold hardware and easy access heal are still elements I love on this guitar. It plays like a dream.
@@RandyMcKernanit’s just a meme from people who don’t like Gibson. They seem useful to me. The problem was they didn’t support it long after release. It would have caught on with commitment and some artist users tbh.
Man, the case and the guitar itself are BEAUTIFUL and RIGHT up my ally. Wow, do these things suck, though. Could go without the fiber inlays, they look like tape, lol.
I have a Pelham Blue Firebird with the robo tuners. It can be a bit overwhelming, and make damn sure you keep the battery charged. The robo’s are great when changing strings.
This was my PC background for years after it came out. It was the best looking guitar I'd ever seen and I was super into modding at the time so it seemed perfect. Guess you should never meet your heroes but I do hope I can try one someday.
I love the g force tuners on my SG, I have ‘with and without’ Gibsons but It is useful being able to access different tunings so easily. Takes the strain out of band rehearsals when you can turn up with one guitar.
This is super amazing. The tone you can make out of it is amazing already
I worked at ART (formerly MXR) back in the day. A company reached out to us about our midi controller. They would modify guitars with 6 servo motors in the body to change the tuning. The guitar had buttons along the neck pickup to change presets. Jimmy Page had a few built for live performances and one of them was on display at the “play it loud” exhibit a few years ago. I heard Gibson bought that technology and turned it into the robot guitar.
i never understood the hate on these guitars. i recently found one for 1300€ and i was tempted to buy it although i was looking for a prs. but they are decent guitars and they offer a lot for the price. you get a decent gibson construction, low weight, great tops, piezo, neutrik locking jack, nice sculpted bridge that does not poke your hand when palm muting, strap locks and the pickups are great and a great combo. also some other nice details like the recessed screws in the pickup ring etc most people just crap on the autotuning system for being complicated and unreliable but you dont have to use it. and i have played guitars worth 3 times the amount that cant hold a tune. i bet if they released an "upgrade kit" where you can control all the electonics from an app in your phone via bluetooth nobody would have anything negative to say about them. only thing i personally dont like about them is that silly scratchplate that you cant remove cause it leaves screw holes behind
I picked up a Gen1 SG Robot on clearance. It was a floor model so several tuners were broken and I had to find a place to get them fixed. It worked OK, but had severe fret sprout that cracked the finish. I need to get it out again and see what I want to do with it.
I remember the robot tuning guitars when they debuted. This one despite all the gizmos is a really sharp looking guitar IMHO. Glad you found a really clean example too 👍
I have a Les Paul DC P90 from 2015 with the robot tuners, I love it for open G, drop D, drop C# and half step down tunings. Works well at gigs
I bought one, stripped it out the electronics and make a Buckethead tribute and I love it 🤘🏻🔥
It sounds like a tin can radio!
I think the hallow chamber design with p90 and humbucker resonates all the frequencies up to an untamable brightness. It needs a lower end frequency neck pickup to tame this wild fire. They were almost there with this one, it just needed a little more time in the oven. Swap that pickup out for a 57 or something lower in the spectrum and I think it will spread out the dynamic range to a place that doesn’t screech the whole time and gives the piezo a place to live.
Gibson gets bashed for being stagnent...then gets bashed for trying to inmovate
Stagnant.
Yes. Yes that's true.
You think the fanbase'/haters' logic is their strong suit?
It's almost as if we're ignorant fickle creatures that generally don't judge things correctly
Although I agree. I think some of this can be attributed to many of the innovations being impractical, gimmicky or just not what the modern players wanted. Stainless steel frets, compound radius fretboards and adding a volute plus changing the headstock angle to reduce risk of headstock breaks would likely be welcome changes. Instead, they went with robot tuners & crazy electronics which become faulty or outdated with time. Their innovations seemed to miss the mark and that’s where I think some of the backlash lies.
"Trying" to innovate is not enough man, you need to actually succeed. Look at Yamaha, the last Revstars were innovative yet NOT hideous.
Innovate
Wow…that sounds so much worse than I could have imagined! I say gut it and make a great looking guitar that sounds like a guitar!
Many have done exactly that.
I'm probably in the minority here but I think that thing is cool as hell.
We have a local band here that does local bar gigs all around town. Think Saturday afternoon at your local dive bar with good food and a big patio.
Typical patio bar band, 3 dudes, bass player/singer, drummer with two toms and cymbals, guitar player/singer with an acoustic electric and pedals, and a rhythm machine. 5-10 song sets of mostly classic rock and some country with vastly different tonal ranges.. Dudes are pretty damn good.
The time between songs is bathroom break time if you know what I mean. I can really see this guitar making sense for this band once the guitarist masters the tone swaps.
I agree. Just need a lot of practice and experimentation. Only for the dedicated.
You have to know how to use that digital tuner if you press the button and it's set on a low E string tuning it will go to that mode what you have to do is you have to adjust the digital tuner so it goes to standard tuning
I wanted one or a dusk tiger back then, I still want one now.
The gforce system works well if you pluck each string separately to tune, rather than strumming all strings at once.
Wouldn't hate on it. Looks good. Likely change the strings 100 times before I'd figure it out. Also... it's gonna break. Everything does. Wonder what parts cost if available ?
That’s a gorgeous guitar.
I love that top and thick binding. The carbon fiber -- though dated -- looks cool and unique.
I still have my 2015 Gibson Les Paul Special double-cut w/ G-Force robos & the Les Paul hologram. I will never change the robos unless I'm forced.
Hey Trogly, did I miss the workbench portion of your review?? I didnt see pickups coming out etc. You mention it but then it goes to you playing it.🤔
it is there! Check the episode guide
Dude - that worked a LOT better than I expected… Weird, yes, but beautiful top & good sounds.. Definitely worth it
This is a nice one. Id keep it if i could get one. Same with the FirebireX like aguafish you should get a signature trogley dragon Spotlight special limited run
Robot tuners are very useful when you are on stage and you can’t hear your own guitar. Checking the tuning between songs is very fast. Volume down, Push 1 button and 1 strum and it’s all back in tune and ready to go. I have a Strat and a LP, both fitted with robot tuners and their accuracy is spot on.
This is a very cool thing with all the original boxes, CD and cables etc. History tells us these things go through a fashion to firewood cycle. Because they are hopeless many will get converted or scrapped / remade. Just pack it for long-term storage and forget about it. One day it will be highly collectible. For what it is, it's great.
This is packed full of amazing ideas that I think CAN work well if done today.
Neck tenon is an enlarged one, I think the 2008/09 onwards Les Paul Standards also used them for a while. I had a chambered Les Paul Standard with one and it was a great guitar.
To me this guitar is amazing, I loved it back then and I love it now
I have the 2010 Les Paul robot, very similar. It's easily the handsomest guitar I own, but the MCK had to be super-glued back together at one point, which is discouraging, and all the tone settings seemed like a solution in search of a problem (which some would also say about the robotuners I guess, but I actually loved those). I believe the tone settings are all just mixes of the various inputs, so it's not like there are any real effects in play. Kinda like with the tuning, it's just doing something for you that you could have done yourself.
I have the Traditional Pro III and it is a non robot version that came that way/ was built in 2016. Vintage sunburst with at least an AA+ maple top.
I got reaaaaly lucky because it is a very beautiful looking and amazing sounding axe. It has every single feature I could ever need or want from coil splitting & decibel boost.
It sounds so incredible
I’d love a review of the Gibson HD6X pro digital with the bob system! With hex pickups, you can have each string going to a different amp! Very cool!
First thing I did with my 2016 standard was put a set of Grovers on. Robots relegated to a bag in the guitar stuff drawer.
I really like it. :) About that robot stuff: I have the Gibson 50's Tribute SG with a Tronical tuner. I modified the guitar seriously (bridge P90 swapped for a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the P90 format), creme covers and other creme parts etc.) but the tronical tuner is actually quite funny as long as I don't have to change the strings, when I always have to check again how to do that. But there's no more of that Robot stuff in there. I have a Line6 Variax 600 for that. :D
the firebird x is a great looking guitar. i love everything about the shape and the smaller headstock, the possibilities with pickup arrangements. it's a shame Gibson doesn't reintroduce it as a regular guitar.
Despite the electronics being obsolete. The look of it is so cool. Not quite my cup of tea, but that is one wicked and unique Les Paul
I put used robot tuners in my J45. I only keep it in standard tuning or half step down. Maybe im just lucky but I turn it on, hit all the strings and it tunes it perfectly. Looks better than a Snark, and quicker. I know one person that had bad experience on stage. Mine is a couch guitar, and 5 years in i still have no issues. All the bad press on these things tells me half of it is user error.
I bought a 2014 Futura, inverness green. It see's daylight once, maybe twice a year. Everyone that see's it work is amazed! I love it because it's different. How many guitars, held no interest when new, but were coveted and recreated later? 59 burst anyone?😊
What kind of cable are you using? Looks cool. Btw, I believe the truss rod cover is anodized aluminum. Anodizing is an electric process where pigment is essentially charged into the metal. Old P Basses and some Jazzmaster had anodized gold aluminum pick guards, but you probably knew that but.
Great Guitar, I have the 2012 Studio Fireburst Limited Its a really versatile guitar once you learn to use it for the benefits it gives.
THANKS for this! I had almost completely forgotten these ever existed. These stick out in my mind because my nephew was interested in getting one. I don't know if he ever did. One thing - can you imagine if these REALLY caught on? That case...it pretty much says, STEAL THIS GUITAR!! Anyway, I see this more as a studio / home use guitar. Lots of good tones on it, which on stage would take a LOT of fussing with an amp to insure a good sound blend and balance. It certainly is a great curiosity piece. Happy New Year Trog!!
Color is great. I would just redo it like a regular Les Paul. If it didn’t look so good I’d probably leave it as an oddity. You can also just use your thumb on the neutrix Jack. Easy when you’re standing up and it’s on a strap.
I love how just removing the strings requires a multi-step procedure with the control knob.
My absolute favorite guitar Gibson has ever done, I want one sooo badly even with the crazy robot tuners. Killer looks and pickup combo
I honestly would love one of these. Are they a bit stupid? Yes, but just like the gothic and voodoo series, they're so stupid that they go back around to being cool
I have a robotic Les Paul. It’s ok but it doesn’t stay in tune very well and they’re a pain to restring. Mine is the original with the flat black finish.
I love the looks, especially the headstock with that trussrod cover. Love the pick up combination.
Okay with the robot tuner, but I will wired it traditionally, and ditch all the tech on it
I'm waiting for the Gibson Drone guitar ! They will fly off the shelves !
😂
No comments about the festive drip? Looking good, T!
This is a dream project guitar for me. If I find one for the right price it’ll be mine
Isn't it a bit strange that Gibson that once invested a lot of money into this failed automated tuning system now won't adopt the proven Evertune product?
Probably wary of cutting out so much of the back for a cavity that isn’t a tremolo.
I was expecting it to not work the way everyone talked about it. but it works fine, the tuning sounds fine. It sounds good as a les Paul. It's no more difficult to use that a digital effects pedal like a G3Xn. After watching this I don't understand why it gets hate. The comments make it sound like it constantly malfunctions and doesn't tune correctly and that it does not have any redeeming qualities. I saw the opposite.
Thanks for the video. The robot tuners are no reason not to buy a Gibson at the right price and were often included with more expensive models as a marketing 'extra' value item to help support the cost of first purchase, even when independent dealers were calling them out as adding little, except weight and annoyance - no regular guitar player needs auto tuners - it takes seconds and many can tune by ear.
I bought an SG HP with with robot tuners in 2018 c/w lots of nice CS style upgrades including titanium zero fret and bridge pins, 57's, military grade switching, CTS, rosewood etc in the only decent colour :) deep heritage cherry with the grain just showing through. I did this knowing the tuners were going in the bin before the first gig - no problem, $90 and a set of locking Gotohs with easy fit and no drilling - done. On a guitar costing $1700 this wasn't even a question - and it has helped the neck dive with a wide sued strap.
FYI - the guitar required a set up, the second fret required levelling (guitar was plek fret levelled at factory - I will put that down to transit) and the 6th string was binding at the nut when switched to 11's, sorted. The 57's actually smoothed out the highs somewhat - with the Titanium this guitar is very clean, clear and a touch bright. Beautiful though, and a keeper.
Years ago when the gen 1 robot guitars came out, I went to guitar center to try one out. I plugged it in and tried the robot tuners and started playing a melt your face off solo and almost instantly sparks, and I mean a bunch of sparks went shooting out of the bridge pickup and yes I literally pulled an ace frehley move and almost burned down the whole store as a result. I told one of the guitar techs about it. I'm pretty sure that's when the recall first happened.
😮😮😮
At band practice in a poorly wired basement, I fused two of the strings to the frets and burned my lips on a phantom powered microphone one time. The strings broke you can see the little welding spots where the string welded to the fret lol.
@@216trixie😮
Yikes! Thanks for the heads up.
Note to self: don't play my Dark Fire until I safety-test the power outlet and check for voltage between the strings and the mic! 🙄
@RandyMcKernan 🤣🤣
@@216trixie sounds like you almost burnt the house down.
Trogley, have you ever played a Brian Moore guitar? Originally from NY, really good guitars
Great job detailing JUNK ! Your honesty is always appreciated TROGLY...
cool gadgets, but i'm just not too confident in those multi-function switches.
what happens when one of them breaks? a switch that moves in complex ways, and houses a multi-colored display, has more chance to fail due to its complexity. just give me some big round military-grade potentiometers to turn, and maybe a big heavy-duty button to push. i like big buttons.
The guitar store I worked at back in 2012 had both the red and blue Firebird X. The batteries would always be dead because no one played them.
Beautiful guitar,don't like the robotic tuners though.
That was the best robot review ive ever seen. The guitar sounds good.
Cool looking guitar. I’m in the nothing risked nothing gained perspective.
I can respect Gibson for attempting to do something different than the norm even if it is things players don’t want.
I can appreciate it for what it is rather than what we think it should be.
Trog’s correct if this would’ve been executed better it could’ve been a game changer for the company.
Actually pretty cool, tempting. I just don’t like the finishing in terms of the binding and colour. White binding would have been cooler, maybe a silverburst. A bucket head version would be very cool.
Not that it matters all too much but sam Ash is still out there and in business. They just opened a new flagship store in the city and teamed up with the Gonher Music Group out of Mexico.
I see my London Fogs in this vid! 😀
This is a perfect example of what guitar and music instrument makers do come NAMM time. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should.." They put all these bells and whistles and tech into flashy new products and hype them up with ridiculous hyperbole but it is stuff nobody asked for and ends up having no real practical value to working musicians. That is why I love when companies are headed up by musicians who simply ask "What would I or other musicians want? What problem do they have that needs to be solved in a real way with out flash and tech for the sake of it?" I think that is why guitars are so traditional and haven't really changed much in all these decades. We don't need much and if it isn't broken why fix it?
I recently managed to get a Robot Explorer Prototype. The tuners were replaced with regular ones. I have no intention of selling it so I might have the guts pulled so I have a normal guitar. It’s a cool plum metallic finish
Its interesting that the battery in yours is still alive. Some of the dark fires had an upgrade that gave them swapable batteries instead of the internal ones.
There is one for sale for 2k that has been de-robotized already. If I could I would buy that instantly
I think that would be a keeper for me it is definitely unique it actually sounds great and I think it would make a nice addition to your collection just to have and Save but if you want to sell it I would check into that myself
I can tune my guitar , never understood these guitars
I actually really love all the aesthetic choices abot this guitar. The black and carbon fiber trimmings, the deep red with that figured top, the REALLY thick binding on the body... Just sucks about all the pointless electronics lol. Also wish it had black or smoked hardware. THe piezo is cool too at least.
The piezo acoustics are kind of neat. You were a litle out of tune which is ironic. I would have liked to see you switch between tunings.
About an hour ago, I saw a Dark Fire on Guitar Center’s site and thought about asking you about it… and you just posted this… woah! freaky! 😂
Ive gotten qear thart had a floppy disc as well as what a call a cereal box 45 rpm and a DVD. Im surprised nothing ever came on a flash drive. At least it looks like this guitar came with all or msybe most of what came with it. Love that top . That truss rod cover looks like painted aluminum.
61 here what's a robot guitar? Self tuning with effects what. I never heard of these the firebird x looks cool. What did you say law suits? Thanx Trogly these are freaky
I think it would be interesting to have one
Nice black box and the case looks cool😮
I have a Les Paul HP with the Gibson G-Force robot tuners. It’s a 2012 model and it still works perfectly.
What you have is the evolution that spawned from these early attempts