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1. Have a signature move and complementary ability that suit your glass cannon playstyle, and no one seems to have any issue with 2. Lower tier "artist" Smeargle steals your move and starts spamming it where it was never intended to be used 3. Your signature move is nerfed in a horrible way, leaving you to languish in Ubers play with zero usage while still being too strong for OU play 4. The November 2016 "Dark Void Incident"
IMO I'm fine with the accuracy nerf in Doubles specifically, but not singles; even if Darkrai is almost never going to be allowed in VGC, it makes sense to nerf it in case TPC ever decided to allow it, because it would be so much more problematic than Smeargle if it was ever legal. I always thought it should have a unique mechanic where its accuracy is divided by the number of targets; not only does this mean it stays more reliable in singles while being less broken in doubles, it also has interesting gameplay interactions in that protecting against it in doubles makes it single target and way more reliable again.
@@notnath14 yep that would make sense seeing as doubles moves already get reduced power, so doing the same thing but for accuracy with dark void would make sense
In double battle, darkrai is STALLER Best sp for darkrai is meowstick with ability prankster allows it almost go first. Second, it can learn "Gravity" made the accuary 1.67 And darkrai base speed is already high, you can equip it wide lens the accuary of dark void now is.. 50×1.1×1.67~ *92* And it can SLEEP DOUBLE TARGET!!!
I think what they were trying to say is the opposite - not only did Dark Void get nerfed, but it was taken away from Smeargle (who was the problem user).
Regardless if Darkrai will be overpowered or not, I think Darkrai lost it's identity. It had its role as a fast sleep inducer, but now it can't reliably put anything to sleep anymore. It's become your typical special attacking sweeper/wallbreaker.
I just saw someone mention that it gets wisp now. If it drops to ou for testing we could potentially get another spectrier situation where despite the stats leaning towards offense the speed and maybe some bulk investment could make it potentially unkillable.
@@demi-femme4821I think that would still be extremely strong in Doubles, where you could use choice scarf Darkrai + a setup pokemon to really put your opponent in jeopardy... but I definitely think giving it some kind of tradeoff is the way to go!
@@EinSilverRose Sure, but pretty much everyone who can pack one of those 3 fairy moves for coverage will do so while it's rare to see anybody bring a bug-type move outside of u-turn if they don't have STAB on it
@@EinSilverRoseyeah, but it's WAY easier, stronger and more reliable to use fairy as it is one of the best offensive typings while bug is resisted by way too much types while also being generaly weaker and having less coverage uses. So the only bug type atack that is actually common is u-turn, bug buzz is only good in bug types cuz of stab (and even then is not as strong as moonblast and doesn't hit both opponents like dazzling gleam) and maybe what? x-scizor? maybe first impresion wich is only learned by a few bug types?
I like how Darkrai's weaknesses are "Fairy, Fighting, and U-Turn" because it's the only relevant Bug move, thats just funny and sad how GF hates Bug types
They really made the signature move worse than the already-bad widespread move... I feel like dark void needs an accuracy buff and/or either: A minimum of 2 sleep turns to make it perform better and make it's ability do something productive Or and attack with a secondary effect of sleep (probably relatively high, maybe 1/3), because only one of those exists right now, and it would be a good level of power and uniqueness
Yeah! The fact that it's being speculated to release him in OU in the first place is disgusting. At this point Gamefreak really just hates him. They even allowed Smeargle to use the move again instead of setting the old accuracy back, that's such an incompetent move. Heck, the accuracy should've never been nerfed in the first place considering they already had singlehandedly solved the problem by locking Smeargle from using it. Such an easy fix, and not only did they screw it up, but also outright refused to fix it back. It's all such a monumental shame.
I mean, most good bug types run Bug Buzz and Megahorn, but the thing is that there are not that many good bug type Pkm. But there are more Pkm just running straight up U-turn
1 benefit of Bug offensively that ppl don't really talk about is no Pkmn is immune to it through typing or ability (except for Shedinja), which is what makes Uturn so good & safe to spam, while other rarer switch moves have immunities to block them. But Dark, Fairy Flying, Steel, & Rock are also types w this distinction, all w/o having the several number of types being resisted by them, like Bug.
Darkrai also got Will-O-Wisp in this game. It gets Calm Mind too, so you could maybe build it to be a bulky Tera wincon. Wisp+CM+Dark Pulse+Tera Fairy Blast or Taunt? It's got pretty comparable bulk to Spectrier, with Darkrai taking physical attacks a bit better while taking special attacks a bit worse
That's one thing that I feel some people may be overlooking when it comes to Darkrai. Sure, it's a scary attacker, but there's a chance that if it drops, it'll have other roles it can fill. Ubers Darkrai is the only form of Darkrai the community has ever seen, meaning we've only ever seen Darkrai be an Offensive Pokemon, since in Ubers, that's all it can really do before you have Opportunity Cost. In OU, however, suddenly the Power Level has dropped and things aren't as bulky as before. At that point, it's very likely to start branching out into other roles, as it has plenty to work with in terms of stats, especially in a lower Power Level Setting.
That's the thing though right? Darkrai can basically be setup as a 1-slot-fits-all coverage option as a compliment to most balanced/hyper-offense styles to decimate stall, give balance a very hard time, and an option to go toe-to-toe with hyper-offense. Tera makes it even harder to read what it's supposed to be doing or what it's coverage could possibly be. Salamence, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Kingdra, these sorts of mons were kind of similar back in the day where you had no idea what they could possibly be doing since they could've been mixed attackers. Though the difference is that they are not hard setup mons since they had to give it up to be a mixed attacker. Darkrai doesn't need to forgo that route and can have setup plus unknown coverage. I would think that if as long as Tera is legal, Darkrai stays banned from OU. If Tera is banned, then Darkrai can be suspect tested in OU.
@@KaguyaEne Again though, we've only seen Darkrai be played like that because it's in Ubers, it could only play like that before opportunity cost kicks in. If it drops to OU, that opportunity cost is gone, and Darkrai's extensive utility movepool can suddenly be looked at. Darkrai has usable bulk in comparison to a lot of Pokemon, close to the same bulk line as Lando-T, except it outruns Lando-T by a mile, and Lando-T hits harder than Darkrai. If Lando-T had a catch 22 of defense on most teams, whose to say Darkrai won't when Darkrai debatably has a better movelist for the job. Who cares if you're not the bulkiest thing in the world when you can just Willo/Hypnosis the opponent then start setting up Calm Minds. The depth of threat Darkrai could have in OU has only ever been explored on a surface level because until now, Darkrai has only ever been thought of as an Ubers Mon, the only thing to talk about (in the context of Ubers) was Darkrai's offensive movepool, with OU, that's a different story. If it drops, there's more sets you have to worry about due to Darkrai not being in immediate danger of a KO anymore.
They should keep the "Only darkari could use this move" for dark void and buff it's accuracy to 80% at least Edit: didn't expect this to have 258 like lol
Before the game came out and I saw the leak of Iron Valiant's stats and movepool, I thought that guy would get banned for sure. Turns out, it's strong, but not something people are clambering to get banned. If Valiant, who has a much better typing, the option to run physical or special sets, and a stronger item option in booster energy is fine, Darkrai would probably be fine imo. Granted, idk that the tier really needs more strong offensive mons, but it's hard to see it being more broken than Valiant.
I feel like flutter was just everything darkrai wishes it was and a complete replacement. Darkrais bulk is bad in ubers, but its more than enough to take neutral hits from balance teams. If you like ho and stall darkrai could be good, and clodsire will be just fine to deal
Unaware clodsire is forced to tera dark against NP darkrai (2HKOed by psyshock, which would probably be common) so that's not ideal, and if the darkrai is running focus blast that's not safe either. I doubt darkrai would run taunt very often, but that also obviously gives stall a hard time.
They did Darkrai dirty 50 accurcacy ON THE SAME GENERATION they made it unusable on smeargle, while being a mythical pokemon and thus being banned from vgc for life is way too much overkill Not only that but they gave its counterpart cresselia a new signature move while darkrai is left in the dust
It would have to drop to UU before going to UUBL though it could just be pre-banned from UU if it doesn't meet the usage to be OU as has happened before with Staraptor in Gen 7.
@@ShiningJudgment666 This happens more commonly than you think. Kyurem-Black, Lando-I, and Staraptor have all gotten quick banned to UUBL... Yes there was a brief moment where Kyurem-Black and Lando-I dropped to UU. Gen 6 was weird man.
I think Darkrai should be tested in the second DLC. If its too strong? Maybe. Darkrai would be an exellent tera abuser. Tera Fairy would cover two of its weaknesses. A set consisting of Nasty plot/Dark Stab/Tera blast fairy would have great coverage and the last slot would be free. Every Darkrai will have a tech that can get past of one form of counterplay.
Even with the Dark Void nerf, Bad Dreams is still a great ability to yeet Pokemon that heavily rely on Rest as a recovery move (Giratina, Snorlax, Ursaluna)
In my eyes, the problem would be that it's a new powerful attacker in a generation where defensive options are more limited. It would be adding an other wallbreaker to the pool of pokémons played, and that pool already has so many of them. This ironically isn't an issue with Darkrai itself but the OU meta.
Funny idea: what if instead of buffing dark void, they gave Darkrai a new signature move that was just a better version of dark pulse? More base power, and instead of the 20% chance to flinch it had a 10% chance of putting the opponent to sleep
Something funny about Darkrai: Dobles OU decided to test him and It get banned in no time because an insane combo with Shaymin-Sky, a Pokemon that's not good at all un DOU, but It support Darkrai perfectly with Sweet Scent and Tailwind
I started playing competitive in Gen 6 and Darkrai was literally everywhere especially in AG. I personally would have kept Dark Void at 60% since it's an iconic move. If I'm not mistaken, it's the only move to ever been banned in VGC (it hit both foes)...
Gen 6 had unbalanced stuff going on that sometimes it felt unplayable, like M-Khangaskhan, Talonflame and of course, Smeargle Dark void or Darkrai if you go AC (yes, i know Talonflame was weak to stealth rock but is not something that i normally run or can set up effectively)
Just from the sounds of it, I feel like Darkrai would probably be a net negative for the OU metagame. While it does have counter-play to it, the core issue is that between it's speed and coverage (not to mention the nasty plot pressure) it will probably end up restricting team-building too much. Dragapult and Zamazenta have a decent chance of becoming more or less mandatory as Darkrai counters to not be completely overwhelmed (Committing your booster Energy as a Darkrai counter or being forced to ensure you always have sun up feel like they give your opponent opportunities to just break your team entirely. They just need to switch out after you've used up your booster energy once, and find a way to pivot Darkrai back in or overwhelm your sun-setter and now Darkrai is unstoppable) and at that point if you have to dedicate a team-slot to "Not losing to Darkrai" then it's a problem. Honestly to me it sounds like Darkrai has just a *bit* too much speed to be viable for now, and maybe in a generation or two (maybe even with the new DLC) it'll fit in much better. If it had like 10 less base speed I would feel different about it, but this could really go either way.
@@amiablereaper alright time to vacuum wave the darkra- oh look he tera'd XDDDD in all seriousness, i think its a bit strong even without tera, but imagine with? im gonna say its too overpowered
@@amiablereaper So use 40 base power priority moves that you could Tera-away the weakness. I'll bite. Lets ignore distribution and use a choice-banded great tusk against a purely offensive Darkrai, damage calc says you do... 77.5-91.8%, giving you a 31% chance to OHKO *after* stealth rocks. Meanwhile it has a 37% chance to OHKO with psychic with no hazards or setup, if you take a hit on switch in then it's a 70% chance you die even with priority there.
There is an item that boosts darkrai's speed tho. Blunder policy, miss an attack and boost your speed. Now imagine having a 60% accuracy move that either puts the other guy to sleep for a free nasty plot or that buffs your speed so you no longer have to worry about getting hit first.
Darkrai would be a premier offensive threat in OU, and more than likely banned. Timid + Choice scarf outruns everything not named zamazenta and dragapault, and 135 SpA isn’t something to scoff at. Dark types will have to pray it isn’t terra fighting or if it misses focus blast. You would see this set being used as a revenge killer or a mid/late game cleaner. Offensive stacked teams and balanced teams would have teams would have little answers to it without slapping on blissey and/or zamazenta. Darkrai could also be used as a wall breaker as well. Bulky cores could handle it but that’s only if it’s scarfed. Choice specs would hammer most of them and the nastyplot set would leave them as set up fodder. Darkrai wouldn’t be outright broken as both variations have checks but team building would be very restrictive and the meta would be even more degraded when combining it with other mons like roaring moon, goldengho, wellspring etc.
Although it doesn't have any effect on the current meta, it will have an effect on future VGC events since Pokémon has announced that Mythicals will be allowed in the restricted meta.
3:57 knowledge is a little outdated left in sun and moon but wouldn't knock off also be a solid option? All the pokemon who rely on their item and removing it does open the door for other pokemon to clean up. Certain pokemon might have been counting on having the assault vest to survive darkrai's onslaught which after knock off won't work.
Darkrai's a bit of a tricky case. On one hand, it's a frail attacker with a bad typing and a weak STAB move, while on the other it's very fast and is absolutely overflowing with stellar coverage options. A lot of the current top Pokémon do threaten it to some extent, but many of them struggle to switch in and one correct prediction on the Darkrai's part can lead to losing a crucial revenge killer. That being said, that same statement can also be applied to several other threatening Pokémon in OU like Iron Valiant and Enamorus. Whatever happens, it's at least interesting to see Darkrai - a Pokémon that once held the coveted title of the most controversial Pokémon in Ubers - at such a low point that it may drop to OU. Only time will tell what will happen as of current.
it would be a 130-ish spatk that outspeeds everything but pult and zam that has nasty plot in the easiest meta to set up in (thanks ninetails) yeah there's some pokemon that can threaten to outspeed with booster energy like valiant but darkrais movepool is so vast that it can just beat some of its counters (like poison move + tera), and the ones it doesn't it doesn't it just siccs their teammates on them not to mention it has the fastest (unboosted) hypnosis. while it seems unreliable as long as you hypnosis when its safe (like on a switch) you can just fish for the opportunity to nasty plot. not to mention its speed allows it to fish for hypnosis whenever it wants for a decent chance to just take the game. also aurora veil can just give you an extra turn to hypnosis which skews the odds in your favor even without hypnosis it has no true defensive counterplay because of its ludicrous movepool, and even after figuring out the moves it could tera to suddenly blow them up or switch into one of OU's offensive juggernauts darkrai has about as much place in current OU as volcarona; dropping it will only make the tier significantly worse
I think that Darkrai would be extremely good, but rather than setting up to sweep and being vulnerable to revenge killers, it'll be used as a revenge killer itself. With a Choice Scarf Darkrai outspeeds every booster speed pokemon as well as things like Dragonite after two dragon dances, and 135 base special attack with a super effective coverage move is enough to stop almost any setup sweeper.
i thought of an idea from this video, thinking based on the new "UUbers" project: what if stuff could fall back into ou by usage over time. like this: OP in OU -> ban to Uber Usage in Uber -> fall to UUber Usage in UUber -> fall to OU
I think it would be a case of getting banned due to being to versatile in a way that makes it unrealistically hard to play around without losing a mon even though you have a mon supposed to handle darkrai
Too strong with Terastalization for OU imo, but it is perfect for UUbers. That needs to become an official tier. Also, I love that everyone agreed that Bug-Type weaknesses means only being weak to U-Turn, since that's the only relevant Bug-Type attack that isn't Bug Buzz
Given all the points presented I'd say the only thing that makes me definitively say to keep it in Ubers is Terrastalization, if that wasn't a factor I'd say it could probably be dropped to OU and it would be just fine there.
Imo yes, Darkrai is op. Not because it hits too hard, but because it hits as hard as it does without being paper thin defensivly. If darkrai was like 50/60/60 bulk then I think it could be tested in ou because atleast when you hit it neutrally it actually dies (or atleast takes >50%).
Given how slanted the OU meta is towards offense teams, I'm not optimistic Darkrai would be very healthy for it. Not that it shouldn't get a chance, I just wouldn't place my bets on it lasting there very long.
I think it's worth testing. Many though Zamacenta-Hero would be broken yet it wasn't. Darkrai is somewhat reliant on Nasty plot but also is great at getting those through offensive pressure. Tera might be why Darkrai isn't worth having in OU, otherwise is just a fast dark type with serious 4MSS. Still, I would wait until we see Koko returning.
*cough* yawndozo/darkrai combo *cough* in all seriousness a combo like that would probably be a bit too strong for the OU metagame. send in the tank with the accurate sleep move and either: A: force the opponent to switch and get a free switch-in on darkrai or B: darkrai gets sacked or survives the hit and either gets traded for the mon that falls asleep or gets to set up for free and clean house. either force the trade and make the battle a 5v5 (with potentially a pivotal mon for the opponent gone) or just clean house after tanking the hit, or at least get 1.
In my fangame Im buffing dark void back to its old self at 80, and because idk if this is even enough for power creep that it would have to compete with (Im trying to nullify powercreep for most of the game, but I want natdex in the endgame and that is likely when Darkrai would come in.) I may give it a move Im making called Ominous dance, a ghost type dance (oricorio go brr) move that boosts spa and spe
@@cryochick9044 I think with a good switch in it would probably sweep any team as long as it hits one void. Darkrai needs speed, so it needs to outspeed or force the other trainer to switch which it can do pretty decently with 125 speed, and then substitue to ominous dance and it's got all the tools it basically needs. I guess coverage will be lacking but stab still hurts like hell with those buffs.
Considering landorus therapy was OU for so long and people praised it as "a sign of a healthy metagame", any declaration that darkrai currently would "make the meta too focused on countering it" feels dishonest. But I don't play competitive myself, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I speak as an outsider looking in who can usually recognize healthy and unhealthy competition.
It in theory comes down to amount of splashable checks. But I'll be honest, Landorus-T being so popular is indeed a problem because it makes games more repetitive.
Landorus is healthy because it can perform so many roles (electric immunity, ground immunity, hazard setter, hazard removal, speed control with scarf, pivot, even a late game cleaner) that it frees up the rest of your team to be whatever you want. By comparison, it doesn't restrict team building because you should be prepping for a ground type regardless, it doesn't have reliable healing, and offensive sets don't have enough coverage to run over most of the metagame Darkrai on the other hand just fishes for a free turn and sets up. It's strong and fast and has a lot of coverage so that you can just lose at team preview if you're unlucky. It might be balanced in gen 9, this gen is absolutely cracked in terms of power level after all, but it definitely had no place in previous gens, especially before Dark Void was nerfed
My belief is Darkrai would be pushed over the edge by tera. If tera ever gets banned (I hope it doesn't, but it's an always looming possibility), then Darkrai can probably be balanced in OU. But a setup sweeper with those offensive stats and the ability to pick super-effective coverage against almost any Pokemon in the meta would be too good with the ability to ALSO tera into something like poison or fairy.
Darkrai feels like a mon that would have 10 OU sets, none of them singularly OP, but the raw guessing game of going into every match with "I have counters for 7 of the 10, but lose outright to the last 3" would just make it incredibly unfun.
@freezai here is a fun fact. Us monotype players have already unbanned Darkrai and not only are we not banning, it's considered a pretty mediocre pokemon on mono dark. It's more of a noob trap that is outclassed by pokemon like Greninja.
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1. Have a signature move and complementary ability that suit your glass cannon playstyle, and no one seems to have any issue with
2. Lower tier "artist" Smeargle steals your move and starts spamming it where it was never intended to be used
3. Your signature move is nerfed in a horrible way, leaving you to languish in Ubers play with zero usage while still being too strong for OU play
4. The November 2016 "Dark Void Incident"
September 2016? What's that about?
@@TwoHeadedMeerkat
Launch month of Sun and Moon iirc
@fossfox it came out in november that year.
Darkrai's Shibuya
Sept 2016 was a like a second 9/11 to Darkraifans
They shouldn’t have nerfed dark void twice. Either the accuracy nerf or not allowing smeargle to use it
IMO I'm fine with the accuracy nerf in Doubles specifically, but not singles; even if Darkrai is almost never going to be allowed in VGC, it makes sense to nerf it in case TPC ever decided to allow it, because it would be so much more problematic than Smeargle if it was ever legal.
I always thought it should have a unique mechanic where its accuracy is divided by the number of targets; not only does this mean it stays more reliable in singles while being less broken in doubles, it also has interesting gameplay interactions in that protecting against it in doubles makes it single target and way more reliable again.
@@notnath14 yep that would make sense seeing as doubles moves already get reduced power, so doing the same thing but for accuracy with dark void would make sense
They shouldn't have lowered dark voids accuracy since they removed smeargles ability to use it
@@notnath14that is such an interesting idea, and would definitely fix both problems
In double battle, darkrai is STALLER
Best sp for darkrai is meowstick with ability prankster allows it almost go first. Second, it can learn "Gravity" made the accuary 1.67
And darkrai base speed is already high, you can equip it wide lens the accuary of dark void now is..
50×1.1×1.67~ *92*
And it can SLEEP DOUBLE TARGET!!!
The fact that Dark Void not only got nerfed but was released to Smeargle really started its “overpowered phase” downfall.
Nerfing dark void was the dumbest thing. Darkrai was fine in Ubers where it was now it’s useless. They’re acting like it was mega ray or something
you've been able to run dark void on smergal before the nerf?? sense gen4????
I think what they were trying to say is the opposite - not only did Dark Void get nerfed, but it was taken away from Smeargle (who was the problem user).
@@Pleasersthey don’t balance around smogon tiers lmao
@@dylanb2990they barely balance at all
Regardless if Darkrai will be overpowered or not, I think Darkrai lost it's identity. It had its role as a fast sleep inducer, but now it can't reliably put anything to sleep anymore. It's become your typical special attacking sweeper/wallbreaker.
I just saw someone mention that it gets wisp now. If it drops to ou for testing we could potentially get another spectrier situation where despite the stats leaning towards offense the speed and maybe some bulk investment could make it potentially unkillable.
I think changing Dark Void to be 100% accurate but force Darkrai to take a Recharge turn like how Legends:Arceus reworked it would be nice.
@@demi-femme4821I think that would still be extremely strong in Doubles, where you could use choice scarf Darkrai + a setup pokemon to really put your opponent in jeopardy... but I definitely think giving it some kind of tradeoff is the way to go!
@@demi-femme4821 legends arceus dark void was a move that put the sleepy status and lowered defense what are you talking about with a recharge turn
@@GGreenHeartVGC bans mythical pokemon. This would only affect singles OU
5:16 I love how having a weakness to bug is basically just considered having a weakness to u turn lol
Fairy only has around 3 usable moves while Bug has 5ish.
@@EinSilverRose Sure, but pretty much everyone who can pack one of those 3 fairy moves for coverage will do so while it's rare to see anybody bring a bug-type move outside of u-turn if they don't have STAB on it
@@EinSilverRoseyeah, but it's WAY easier, stronger and more reliable to use fairy as it is one of the best offensive typings while bug is resisted by way too much types while also being generaly weaker and having less coverage uses. So the only bug type atack that is actually common is u-turn, bug buzz is only good in bug types cuz of stab (and even then is not as strong as moonblast and doesn't hit both opponents like dazzling gleam) and maybe what? x-scizor? maybe first impresion wich is only learned by a few bug types?
I like how Darkrai's weaknesses are "Fairy, Fighting, and U-Turn" because it's the only relevant Bug move, thats just funny and sad how GF hates Bug types
Hey the bug hate was here since gen 1 lol
@@kevo300 which is funny because pokemon was made because the creator wanted to make a game about how much he loved bug hunting as a child
Bug Buzz Volcarona is right there…
First impression?
Lokix go brrrrr
Make Dark Void great again
We're gonna make a great Meta. And the Smeargels are gonna pay for it.
Ikr idk why spore is better. I’d rather dark void be single target and have 100% acc.
They really made the signature move worse than the already-bad widespread move...
I feel like dark void needs an accuracy buff and/or either:
A minimum of 2 sleep turns to make it perform better and make it's ability do something productive
Or and attack with a secondary effect of sleep (probably relatively high, maybe 1/3), because only one of those exists right now, and it would be a good level of power and uniqueness
Yeah!
The fact that it's being speculated to release him in OU in the first place is disgusting. At this point Gamefreak really just hates him. They even allowed Smeargle to use the move again instead of setting the old accuracy back, that's such an incompetent move. Heck, the accuracy should've never been nerfed in the first place considering they already had singlehandedly solved the problem by locking Smeargle from using it. Such an easy fix, and not only did they screw it up, but also outright refused to fix it back. It's all such a monumental shame.
Not even great at this point, just usable
Gotta love when he says weak to “U-Turn” and not weak to bug. Lmao
Weak to bug May as well just be weak to U-turn.
I mean, most good bug types run Bug Buzz and Megahorn, but the thing is that there are not that many good bug type Pkm. But there are more Pkm just running straight up U-turn
1 benefit of Bug offensively that ppl don't really talk about is no Pkmn is immune to it through typing or ability (except for Shedinja), which is what makes Uturn so good & safe to spam, while other rarer switch moves have immunities to block them. But Dark, Fairy Flying, Steel, & Rock are also types w this distinction, all w/o having the several number of types being resisted by them, like Bug.
Darkrai also got Will-O-Wisp in this game. It gets Calm Mind too, so you could maybe build it to be a bulky Tera wincon. Wisp+CM+Dark Pulse+Tera Fairy Blast or Taunt? It's got pretty comparable bulk to Spectrier, with Darkrai taking physical attacks a bit better while taking special attacks a bit worse
That's one thing that I feel some people may be overlooking when it comes to Darkrai.
Sure, it's a scary attacker, but there's a chance that if it drops, it'll have other roles it can fill. Ubers Darkrai is the only form of Darkrai the community has ever seen, meaning we've only ever seen Darkrai be an Offensive Pokemon, since in Ubers, that's all it can really do before you have Opportunity Cost.
In OU, however, suddenly the Power Level has dropped and things aren't as bulky as before. At that point, it's very likely to start branching out into other roles, as it has plenty to work with in terms of stats, especially in a lower Power Level Setting.
That's the thing though right? Darkrai can basically be setup as a 1-slot-fits-all coverage option as a compliment to most balanced/hyper-offense styles to decimate stall, give balance a very hard time, and an option to go toe-to-toe with hyper-offense. Tera makes it even harder to read what it's supposed to be doing or what it's coverage could possibly be. Salamence, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Kingdra, these sorts of mons were kind of similar back in the day where you had no idea what they could possibly be doing since they could've been mixed attackers. Though the difference is that they are not hard setup mons since they had to give it up to be a mixed attacker. Darkrai doesn't need to forgo that route and can have setup plus unknown coverage.
I would think that if as long as Tera is legal, Darkrai stays banned from OU. If Tera is banned, then Darkrai can be suspect tested in OU.
@@KaguyaEne Again though, we've only seen Darkrai be played like that because it's in Ubers, it could only play like that before opportunity cost kicks in. If it drops to OU, that opportunity cost is gone, and Darkrai's extensive utility movepool can suddenly be looked at. Darkrai has usable bulk in comparison to a lot of Pokemon, close to the same bulk line as Lando-T, except it outruns Lando-T by a mile, and Lando-T hits harder than Darkrai. If Lando-T had a catch 22 of defense on most teams, whose to say Darkrai won't when Darkrai debatably has a better movelist for the job. Who cares if you're not the bulkiest thing in the world when you can just Willo/Hypnosis the opponent then start setting up Calm Minds. The depth of threat Darkrai could have in OU has only ever been explored on a surface level because until now, Darkrai has only ever been thought of as an Ubers Mon, the only thing to talk about (in the context of Ubers) was Darkrai's offensive movepool, with OU, that's a different story. If it drops, there's more sets you have to worry about due to Darkrai not being in immediate danger of a KO anymore.
Ah yes U-Turn. My favorite type.
Onix is my favorite type xD
Intimidate is also my favorite type
U-turn type is really scary
Interesting to note that even in the unofficial uubers tier, where only mons with
That's very much a meta thing, though fair point.
They should keep the "Only darkari could use this move" for dark void and buff it's accuracy to 80% at least
Edit: didn't expect this to have 258 like lol
I was just thinking 80-85%
Yeah why Nerf accuracy and remove it from smeargle, it's ridiculous
@@lighthouse6543Exactly man, like cool, remove it from smeargle' moveset, but why nerf it still?? Like what was going on inside their head
I would be content with acc 70%
@adelinealdercy1195 exactly
The sad thing is that dark void could easily be changed to remove smeargle’s access. That’s the case with Hyperspace Fury.
It is the case
that is exactly what happened in gen 7 💀
They did both that and nerf it into the ground, which seems like a massive overreaction.
Just remove it from Smeargle's movepool and be done with it.
Just make signature moves used other then the mon unusable
Smeargle can't learn hyperspace fury because it needs hoopa unbound's animation I think
U-Turn Type is my favorite Freezai running joke
Before the game came out and I saw the leak of Iron Valiant's stats and movepool, I thought that guy would get banned for sure. Turns out, it's strong, but not something people are clambering to get banned. If Valiant, who has a much better typing, the option to run physical or special sets, and a stronger item option in booster energy is fine, Darkrai would probably be fine imo. Granted, idk that the tier really needs more strong offensive mons, but it's hard to see it being more broken than Valiant.
I feel like flutter was just everything darkrai wishes it was and a complete replacement. Darkrais bulk is bad in ubers, but its more than enough to take neutral hits from balance teams. If you like ho and stall darkrai could be good, and clodsire will be just fine to deal
Unaware clodsire is forced to tera dark against NP darkrai (2HKOed by psyshock, which would probably be common) so that's not ideal, and if the darkrai is running focus blast that's not safe either. I doubt darkrai would run taunt very often, but that also obviously gives stall a hard time.
They did Darkrai dirty
50 accurcacy ON THE SAME GENERATION they made it unusable on smeargle, while being a mythical pokemon and thus being banned from vgc for life is way too much overkill
Not only that but they gave its counterpart cresselia a new signature move while darkrai is left in the dust
purposely did that
They also nerfed Cresselia's base stats while keeping Darkrai's the same. I'd rather have Cresselia with higher stats than Lunar Blessing.
yeah, they gave creselia an insane new move while darkrai got nothing
After a DLC of power creep and a suspect test in OU, I can imagine that Darkrai moves to UUBL.
It would have to drop to UU before going to UUBL though it could just be pre-banned from UU if it doesn't meet the usage to be OU as has happened before with Staraptor in Gen 7.
@@ShiningJudgment666 This happens more commonly than you think. Kyurem-Black, Lando-I, and Staraptor have all gotten quick banned to UUBL...
Yes there was a brief moment where Kyurem-Black and Lando-I dropped to UU. Gen 6 was weird man.
Honestly I agree! I also think that arsus bug should be tested! It's states a close to Zamazenta's
I think Darkrai should be tested in the second DLC. If its too strong? Maybe.
Darkrai would be an exellent tera abuser. Tera Fairy would cover two of its weaknesses. A set consisting of Nasty plot/Dark Stab/Tera blast fairy would have great coverage and the last slot would be free. Every Darkrai will have a tech that can get past of one form of counterplay.
Even with the Dark Void nerf, Bad Dreams is still a great ability to yeet Pokemon that heavily rely on Rest as a recovery move (Giratina, Snorlax, Ursaluna)
In my eyes, the problem would be that it's a new powerful attacker in a generation where defensive options are more limited. It would be adding an other wallbreaker to the pool of pokémons played, and that pool already has so many of them. This ironically isn't an issue with Darkrai itself but the OU meta.
Love the green hill Zone theme at 3:45
7:35 makes it look like there's another Rillaboom in the background with those lady's legs
It's faster than ribombee by one point and gets taunt. I'm all for it.
Also without u turn it's role seems limited to just being a set up sweeper.
Ribombee then proceeds to click moonblast and unalive Darkrai
@@Luragon9876 A small price to pay to deny webs lol. Also a sash set could go pretty hard ngl.
blunder policy could work as agility with dark void having 50% accuracy
too gimmicky and darkrai is alredy pretty fast.
Me when I miss my move and die to the next hit
@@justinchoy476 focus blast ain’t focusing😭
Funny idea: what if instead of buffing dark void, they gave Darkrai a new signature move that was just a better version of dark pulse? More base power, and instead of the 20% chance to flinch it had a 10% chance of putting the opponent to sleep
Something funny about Darkrai: Dobles OU decided to test him and It get banned in no time because an insane combo with Shaymin-Sky, a Pokemon that's not good at all un DOU, but It support Darkrai perfectly with Sweet Scent and Tailwind
I started playing competitive in Gen 6 and Darkrai was literally everywhere especially in AG. I personally would have kept Dark Void at 60% since it's an iconic move. If I'm not mistaken, it's the only move to ever been banned in VGC (it hit both foes)...
Gen 6 had unbalanced stuff going on that sometimes it felt unplayable, like M-Khangaskhan, Talonflame and of course, Smeargle Dark void or Darkrai if you go AC (yes, i know Talonflame was weak to stealth rock but is not something that i normally run or can set up effectively)
Just from the sounds of it, I feel like Darkrai would probably be a net negative for the OU metagame. While it does have counter-play to it, the core issue is that between it's speed and coverage (not to mention the nasty plot pressure) it will probably end up restricting team-building too much. Dragapult and Zamazenta have a decent chance of becoming more or less mandatory as Darkrai counters to not be completely overwhelmed (Committing your booster Energy as a Darkrai counter or being forced to ensure you always have sun up feel like they give your opponent opportunities to just break your team entirely. They just need to switch out after you've used up your booster energy once, and find a way to pivot Darkrai back in or overwhelm your sun-setter and now Darkrai is unstoppable) and at that point if you have to dedicate a team-slot to "Not losing to Darkrai" then it's a problem. Honestly to me it sounds like Darkrai has just a *bit* too much speed to be viable for now, and maybe in a generation or two (maybe even with the new DLC) it'll fit in much better. If it had like 10 less base speed I would feel different about it, but this could really go either way.
Or...use priority? I mean this thing is weak to mach punch vacuum wave and first impression
And it's not exactly that bulky either
@@amiablereaper alright time to vacuum wave the darkra- oh look he tera'd XDDDD
in all seriousness, i think its a bit strong even without tera, but imagine with? im gonna say its too overpowered
@@amiablereaper So use 40 base power priority moves that you could Tera-away the weakness. I'll bite. Lets ignore distribution and use a choice-banded great tusk against a purely offensive Darkrai, damage calc says you do... 77.5-91.8%, giving you a 31% chance to OHKO *after* stealth rocks. Meanwhile it has a 37% chance to OHKO with psychic with no hazards or setup, if you take a hit on switch in then it's a 70% chance you die even with priority there.
There is one OP build that no one ever knows about. SLEEP and also FOCUS PUNCH. And Tera Fighting.
Ttar was RU, Heatran and Hoopa Unbound are UU, I think it's fair to question conventions at this point.
Darkrai is like gen 8 Blaziken, it's only banned because it was ubers multiple generations ago and needs to at least be tested in OU
Blaziken was never Ubers and never will be LOL
@@SarcasticBeingYesit was ubers in gens 5, 6, and 7.
There is an item that boosts darkrai's speed tho. Blunder policy, miss an attack and boost your speed. Now imagine having a 60% accuracy move that either puts the other guy to sleep for a free nasty plot or that buffs your speed so you no longer have to worry about getting hit first.
Issue is, if you run Dark Void and Nasty Plot, you’ve only got two coverage moves.
@aquatazer Imo the biggest threat to Darkrai in OU would be fairy so just bring sludgebomb and dark pulse. And a defensive tera.
And fighting wouldn't be a threat at all?
Darkrai would be a premier offensive threat in OU, and more than likely banned. Timid + Choice scarf outruns everything not named zamazenta and dragapault, and 135 SpA isn’t something to scoff at. Dark types will have to pray it isn’t terra fighting or if it misses focus blast. You would see this set being used as a revenge killer or a mid/late game cleaner. Offensive stacked teams and balanced teams would have teams would have little answers to it without slapping on blissey and/or zamazenta.
Darkrai could also be used as a wall breaker as well. Bulky cores could handle it but that’s only if it’s scarfed. Choice specs would hammer most of them and the nastyplot set would leave them as set up fodder.
Darkrai wouldn’t be outright broken as both variations have checks but team building would be very restrictive and the meta would be even more degraded when combining it with other mons like roaring moon, goldengho, wellspring etc.
Although it doesn't have any effect on the current meta, it will have an effect on future VGC events since Pokémon has announced that Mythicals will be allowed in the restricted meta.
Dipplin Dark Void may become popular, calling it now.
Wait what, Mythicals will be allowed in VGC? When was that said?
I wish the dark void nerf was like 80% for one target and 50% for two targets. I think that would make it so much more balanced of a move
Thank you for making this video, I've been thinking about this for a while
5:19 "common types like u-turn" - savage
Once Dark void got nerfed his viability in Ubers dropped significantly
3:57 knowledge is a little outdated left in sun and moon but wouldn't knock off also be a solid option?
All the pokemon who rely on their item and removing it does open the door for other pokemon to clean up.
Certain pokemon might have been counting on having the assault vest to survive darkrai's onslaught which after knock off won't work.
Darkrai's a bit of a tricky case. On one hand, it's a frail attacker with a bad typing and a weak STAB move, while on the other it's very fast and is absolutely overflowing with stellar coverage options. A lot of the current top Pokémon do threaten it to some extent, but many of them struggle to switch in and one correct prediction on the Darkrai's part can lead to losing a crucial revenge killer. That being said, that same statement can also be applied to several other threatening Pokémon in OU like Iron Valiant and Enamorus. Whatever happens, it's at least interesting to see Darkrai - a Pokémon that once held the coveted title of the most controversial Pokémon in Ubers - at such a low point that it may drop to OU. Only time will tell what will happen as of current.
Prankstar Sableye with Gravity in doubles.
Prankstar Gravity + Dark Void is dirty.
Would be cool... If Darkrai wasn't banned in Doubles.
The way you do meta analysis videos are so incredible. Keep up it friend!
your editing is next level :D
it would be a 130-ish spatk that outspeeds everything but pult and zam that has nasty plot in the easiest meta to set up in (thanks ninetails)
yeah there's some pokemon that can threaten to outspeed with booster energy like valiant but darkrais movepool is so vast that it can just beat some of its counters (like poison move + tera), and the ones it doesn't it doesn't it just siccs their teammates on them
not to mention it has the fastest (unboosted) hypnosis. while it seems unreliable as long as you hypnosis when its safe (like on a switch) you can just fish for the opportunity to nasty plot. not to mention its speed allows it to fish for hypnosis whenever it wants for a decent chance to just take the game. also aurora veil can just give you an extra turn to hypnosis which skews the odds in your favor
even without hypnosis it has no true defensive counterplay because of its ludicrous movepool, and even after figuring out the moves it could tera to suddenly blow them up or switch into one of OU's offensive juggernauts
darkrai has about as much place in current OU as volcarona; dropping it will only make the tier significantly worse
Considering the upcoming Roaring Moon suspect test, I don't think they'll ever test Darkrai in OU
I think that Darkrai would be extremely good, but rather than setting up to sweep and being vulnerable to revenge killers, it'll be used as a revenge killer itself. With a Choice Scarf Darkrai outspeeds every booster speed pokemon as well as things like Dragonite after two dragon dances, and 135 base special attack with a super effective coverage move is enough to stop almost any setup sweeper.
And it has Trick to still leverage some use against defensive teams I suppose
Conquest and mystery dungeon music, another goatzai banger
Honestly I think the idea of a Dark Void nerf makes sense, since it's absolute cancer to play around , but the nerf was far too brutal
I love the subtle jab of calling bug type the u-turn type
It might be worth testing after Indigo Disk, but OU is far too messy to consider adding Darkrai right now.
Ah yeah "U-turn" my favorite typing
Hearing freezai’s voice during the sponsor segment easily tells you that even he is uninterested in the sponsor
Bien condenado el darkrai 🗿
i thought of an idea from this video, thinking based on the new "UUbers" project:
what if stuff could fall back into ou by usage over time.
like this:
OP in OU -> ban to Uber
Usage in Uber -> fall to UUber
Usage in UUber -> fall to OU
I think it would be a case of getting banned due to being to versatile in a way that makes it unrealistically hard to play around without losing a mon even though you have a mon supposed to handle darkrai
Freezai: "Darkrai is unusable in uber but banworthy in OU'
KineSquared: UUbers exists. am I a joke to you?
Too strong with Terastalization for OU imo, but it is perfect for UUbers. That needs to become an official tier.
Also, I love that everyone agreed that Bug-Type weaknesses means only being weak to U-Turn, since that's the only relevant Bug-Type attack that isn't Bug Buzz
Tera poison would be a great Tera type for darkrai, aside from great tusk, basically every one of the main threats it has would be countered
This seems like a really cool way to use UUbers to see if Darkrai is too good there
Short Answer:No
Long Answer:Freezai Video
Given all the points presented I'd say the only thing that makes me definitively say to keep it in Ubers is Terrastalization, if that wasn't a factor I'd say it could probably be dropped to OU and it would be just fine there.
Bug really is the U-Turn type
“Fairy, fighting, and U-turn” *Cries in Kricketune*
I'm just happy this video had the Normal Battle theme from Pokemon Conquest.
dark void needs to be unnerfed
Wouldn't sticky web make Darkrai a headache to deal with though?
Imo yes, Darkrai is op. Not because it hits too hard, but because it hits as hard as it does without being paper thin defensivly. If darkrai was like 50/60/60 bulk then I think it could be tested in ou because atleast when you hit it neutrally it actually dies (or atleast takes >50%).
Given how slanted the OU meta is towards offense teams, I'm not optimistic Darkrai would be very healthy for it. Not that it shouldn't get a chance, I just wouldn't place my bets on it lasting there very long.
I love that u turn replaced the bug type what a glow up
I think it's worth testing. Many though Zamacenta-Hero would be broken yet it wasn't. Darkrai is somewhat reliant on Nasty plot but also is great at getting those through offensive pressure.
Tera might be why Darkrai isn't worth having in OU, otherwise is just a fast dark type with serious 4MSS. Still, I would wait until we see Koko returning.
this isnt the forst time freezai gave us the famous typing "u-turn"
Darkrai made smeargle famous
I love that u turn being its own type is still a running joke.
I've been thinking about this since Gen 8, I want a suspect! That sounds fun
Darkrai was the Pokemon that inspired me to get my first-ever Action Replay, I had no idea it would fall this far into uselessness in Ubers.
Ah yes. U-turn. My favorite type
I can't believe you listened uturn as a weakness instead of bug
There is 1 bug type in ou, ribombee, and people don't run bug moves because they are bad offensively
*cough* yawndozo/darkrai combo *cough*
in all seriousness a combo like that would probably be a bit too strong for the OU metagame. send in the tank with the accurate sleep move and either:
A: force the opponent to switch and get a free switch-in on darkrai
or
B: darkrai gets sacked or survives the hit and either gets traded for the mon that falls asleep or gets to set up for free and clean house.
either force the trade and make the battle a 5v5 (with potentially a pivotal mon for the opponent gone) or just clean house after tanking the hit, or at least get 1.
Nobody realizing that hypnosis only hits in your dreams but never irl
Loved hearing the song for Sky Babylon from sonic rush adventure, GOATED game
Maybe if it is still too powerful for OU. Maybe it will still have UUbers to (not to sure about its place there if at all)
the 5:17 u-turn mention made me laugh lol
In my fangame Im buffing dark void back to its old self at 80, and because idk if this is even enough for power creep that it would have to compete with (Im trying to nullify powercreep for most of the game, but I want natdex in the endgame and that is likely when Darkrai would come in.) I may give it a move Im making called Ominous dance, a ghost type dance (oricorio go brr) move that boosts spa and spe
That sounds a little broken.
@@nksuke5988 I mean. Would it be UBERS broken though with mons like Zacian Miraidon and calyrex stomping around?
@@cryochick9044 I think with a good switch in it would probably sweep any team as long as it hits one void. Darkrai needs speed, so it needs to outspeed or force the other trainer to switch which it can do pretty decently with 125 speed, and then substitue to ominous dance and it's got all the tools it basically needs. I guess coverage will be lacking but stab still hurts like hell with those buffs.
@@nksuke5988 well for Ubers they still have sleep clause. So dark void is banned. For vgc it well. Idk vgc with mythicals enabled well enough to know
@@nksuke5988 also 4 move syndrome
Sub ominous and dark void then you have only dark pulse for damage?
Considering landorus therapy was OU for so long and people praised it as "a sign of a healthy metagame", any declaration that darkrai currently would "make the meta too focused on countering it" feels dishonest. But I don't play competitive myself, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I speak as an outsider looking in who can usually recognize healthy and unhealthy competition.
It in theory comes down to amount of splashable checks. But I'll be honest, Landorus-T being so popular is indeed a problem because it makes games more repetitive.
Landorus is healthy because it can perform so many roles (electric immunity, ground immunity, hazard setter, hazard removal, speed control with scarf, pivot, even a late game cleaner) that it frees up the rest of your team to be whatever you want. By comparison, it doesn't restrict team building because you should be prepping for a ground type regardless, it doesn't have reliable healing, and offensive sets don't have enough coverage to run over most of the metagame
Darkrai on the other hand just fishes for a free turn and sets up. It's strong and fast and has a lot of coverage so that you can just lose at team preview if you're unlucky. It might be balanced in gen 9, this gen is absolutely cracked in terms of power level after all, but it definitely had no place in previous gens, especially before Dark Void was nerfed
"weaknesses to fairy fighting and u-turn" LOLLLLL such hating to bug and honestly fair
darkrai is one of my favorite pokemon looking foward to the suspect test
At least Darkrai has UUbers now
3:30 Umbreon is the newest steel Pokémon in the Pokédex. 👌🏼🤫🤔
Dark void should be 90% accurate with 1 target and 50% when there are 2 targets. Also Smeargle cannot use it. I think it is fair
Ah yes, the U-turn type. Truly the greatest type of all time. 5:17
My belief is Darkrai would be pushed over the edge by tera. If tera ever gets banned (I hope it doesn't, but it's an always looming possibility), then Darkrai can probably be balanced in OU. But a setup sweeper with those offensive stats and the ability to pick super-effective coverage against almost any Pokemon in the meta would be too good with the ability to ALSO tera into something like poison or fairy.
I think as long as the tera mechanic is a thing, letting darkrai be OU shouldnt even be an option
I like how people never mention the bug weakness it's always u-turn exclusively
Darkrai feels like a mon that would have 10 OU sets, none of them singularly OP, but the raw guessing game of going into every match with "I have counters for 7 of the 10, but lose outright to the last 3" would just make it incredibly unfun.
i have not played ou since gen 7, and dont plan to start now, so i vote to do whatever has the most chaos in ou
@freezai here is a fun fact. Us monotype players have already unbanned Darkrai and not only are we not banning, it's considered a pretty mediocre pokemon on mono dark. It's more of a noob trap that is outclassed by pokemon like Greninja.
Another common freezai W