The Avengers is Josh Whedon's own project. And it's a totally different scenario about Josh Whedon's take over of a project that isn't his. And the intentions of doing each project are also 100% different. So, I totally disagree with this channel's opinion of why one worked and the other one didn't. Got it! And the reason why most Marvel movies are a hit is people are.not as familiar with their characters as those from DC and thus the curiosity is much higher. This curiosity is due to unpopularity of Marvel's comics and TV animated shows compared to that of DC.
[10:52] It's interesting how she is SO AGAINST bringing Superman back from the dead, BUT in WW84, she isn't reluctant at all in bringing Steve Trevor back, right? lol
OK. How? When I try and use NordVPN with Netflix, or most any streaming service, it tells me that I'm using a VPN and I have to shut it off to stream. How you getting VPN to work with netflix?
@@someoneontheinternet16 I mean even if they aren't I'll spend a day with the cast of avengers they are really cool group even out of set than a day with the cast of DC
What are they? A in over his head Millionare A girl raised to be a russian assasin A boy with anger issues A 100 year old with a shield Some guy whos not good at holding onto to poeple Andd A god He seems good
Well, lot's of them were lies or worded in a way so it sounded like they are more similair then ghey actually are. Justice League is not that good of a movie, but it a lot different except a team up superhero movie that introduces new ones and aliens attack the earth.
You mean they’re similar because, as usual, DC is nothing but a copycat taking the crumbs MARVEL drops and shamelessly trying to bake a cake from them. It’s been going on for decades. From the 1960s, DC has been a copycat wannabe. Why did Warner HAVE to higher Joss Whedon. There are many other directors. WHY did it HAVE to be the Avengers director? Why did DC HAVE to get Daredevil’s writer (Frank Miller) to make Batman popular in the late 70s and 80s??? Why did OMAC project come out directly after Operation: Zero Tolerance in the 90s??? The “Judas Contract” comes out in response to the mother of all comic stories and female centric “Dark Phoenix” saga??? Just some evidence. Inspiration is one thing. Blatant rip offs are just DCs trademark.
Good video but I think we did indeed see Bruce's contingency plan: Lois Lane. He arranged for her to be there just in case Supes went dark, believing she could pull him back. Which is exactly what happened.
Thank you I came to the comments for this. His contingency plan was obviously Lois Lane, not kryptonite that we "didn't get to see" (but we eventually do anyways).
I love how avengers endgame answers this discussion... tony has grown to the point where he does make the sacrifice play, and steve has grown to the point he does make the selfish choice
You're half right. Tony makes the sacrifice play to beat Thanos, completing the arc setup for him in that Avengers scene the video referenced. The resolution to Steve's arc from that scene is when he lifts Mjolnir during the Thanos fight, proving that "everything special about him" didn't come from a bottle, as Tony says.
@@Eliteish 👈🏻 He's right. Plus, can't remember anymore who actually said it in the past MCU films, but I somehow remember someone telling Steve to go get a life, reason why he did what he did in the end of Endgame.
@@Eliteish Its exactly what Dr Erskin said. "My formula amplifies a person's "insides", which means good becomes better and bad becomes worse". So everything special about Steve Rogers just got amplified by that bottle. He was a good man, the bottle made him better. Sure he made mistakes along the way, crucial mistakes but thats because hes only human and those mistakes were written in a way to emphasize his humanity.
As soon as superman comes they win the fight, he single handedly defeats the bad guys. But the avengers had to fight together to defeat them. Justice league sucked Plus the aliens in avengers look way more believable
@@MrALenCar321 in the movie avenger doesnt rely on captain marvel .. all fight together . mcu nerf many character to make it balance so no character outshadow other character like superman he too strong tht everyone start to look weak .
There’s also a bigger thing that makes Marvel work…we grew with most of the characters. Most of them all had their own movies and interactions outside of the movie so we grew with them. Not much of the case with DC and their many shifts from continuity and changes.
I think this only applies if you are less than 24 and grew up watching the MCU movies. If you are older than that, you've maybe seen Iron Man cartoons and Hulk. But Captain America, Hawkeye, Thor, black widow, scarlet witch, none of those characters had much presence on the media exceptfor the comics. Marvel went bankrupt in 1996, son at that point the only movies we had seen were spiderman and fantastic 4 and X-men, because they sold those rights to sony. On the other hand, DC had batman, Superman and wonder woman everywhere, Flash was always knowns as the "fast" superhero, Cyborg was in teen titans, and well, Aquaman was kind of a meme at that point. But everybody knew those guys.
@@fedeu I’m actually older than 24 and only had exposure to the MCU movies (plus The Incredible Hulk and four Spider-Man movies). Captain America and Thor both had movies prior to The Avengers, and Black Widow appeared in Iron Man 2. Scarlet Witch didn’t appear until Ultron (not including post credits scenes). Hawkeye was new but the majority of the heroes we were already presented with in the MCU. Edit: Missed the DC Universe parts of your post but I didn’t feel like I connected with most of those characters because although they were presented, they were presented in different formats and with different actors so it didn’t feel cohesive.
@@HylianDrew94 Oh ok, yeah, maybe the age restriction I set was unnecesary. And yes, the MCU built it's universe movie by movie, so it was 10 years ahead of DC when they finally assembled a team. But I meant to say that many of this DC characters were already known to older people because of cartoons, movies and pop culture. So DC kinda thought that they could skip the individual movies and go straight to the team. Which could have been a good idea, if the story was compelling enough, which it wasn't. Guardians of the galaxy is a movie with a team of unknowns, and it does work, because the story and the characters are better written.
@@fedeu Well put! I see where you’re coming from. Guardians of the Galaxy is a great example of that. I’ve been meaning to watch the Snyder Cut of Justice League as I’ve heard the extra content paints a better story.
Wow. Just wow. Each of you (Fede U included) had an argument that ultimately ended in a compromise. Unheard of by today's standards. I wish things like this were as common as this exchange.
When Superman showed up for the final fight, after the 'buildup', he threw 3 punches then asked Batman what to do and no one cared. When Thor showed up in Wakanda in Infinity War, people stood up and cheered in the theater.
Flash: "What are your superpowers again?" Batman: "I am rich." VS Captain America: "Big man in a suit of armour. Take that off, what are you?" Tony Stark: "Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist." We can see who has better writing.
Exactly DC introduced some of their characters in a movie where they assemble instead of introducing everybody first so they we can see each person's set of skills and what and how they can all fight together. In Marvel only Hawkeye isn't introduced but we quickly see his skills.
loki was not using the sceptre to manipulate them into arguing, that shot hints at how the sceptre brings out the worst in people, think of it like horcruxes in hp
Marvel never fails me when it comes to easter eggs, connecting the dots and mind blowing stories, even the side characters we saw on previous movie plays important role on the future Marvel movies
@@kyvesmith9092 and the principal is the grandson of one of the captain's howling commandos, speaking of captain, quill's grandma got an autograph from him
The real problem: The Avengers builded up by doing origin stories and individual movies FIRST. Justice League threw everything together in Dawn of Justice. There was no build up to the DCEU; the MCU took its time and turned out better.
People felt like they knew the characters in the avengers, over time from multiple movies, i went to see winter soldier and avgers civil war. and avnegers infinity war with my brother i loved it. Each movie from marvel drew me in.
Yea the justice league movie it’s all over the place they throw in so many things in there and there is new character being introduced too. They don’t even got enough time to developed each character back story for the audience to really care or feel anything special and this whole thing felt like director are in a rush just to complete the movie.
If Marvel had done what DC did they would have ended up just as bad. What DC did is like Marvel doing Captain America then Captain America Civil war and then doing Captain Marvel and then doing the Avengers then after that doing Thor then Spiderman and then Captain Marvel 2.
Exactly when it comes to the MCU i feel connected to the characters this is due to the fact on how much depth they go into the characters. When it came to the DC movies i felt as if it was just packed together, without any character depth.
Everyone felt much, much more attached to the characters because of that. Take a look at Tony Stark, for example. You can like his ego, but I think we can all agree that it was in the way. But that ego eventually turned into bravery more and more after The Avengers, all while remaining the man Tony Stark is.
we take MCU for granted. In a world where most franchise movies lost their way as they make more sequels (F&F, Cars, DCEU, Star Wars, and even Harry Potter, and many more), MCU managed to stay relatively consistent with their characters and their own arcs, have compelling stories most of the time and when it comes to their weakest movies, they still manage to be decent and watchable.
@@lunajoyxiv ur in the minority on that line of thinking. Sides...I don't blame joss to bow out and marvel to get the Russos... everything's just got much much bigger for just ONE MAN to do it all. Remember..aside from the Russos being TWO PEOPLE directing..they also got two WRITERS to help em out in painting on those big ass canvases of infinity war and endgame. Joss, as brilliant as he is..just got overwhelmed by it all...it showed in Age of Ultron. I really like that movie..but, it's nowhere near the first one..and it's understandable. The plate just got a whole lot bigger by AoU. It WOULD take a TEAM of people to take on the much bigger stories, post AoU. I wish Joss had done the Captain Marvel movie tho... He would've made that movie as one of the best SOLO mcu flicks..alongside iron man, Winter soldier & black panther.
I feel like marvel really brings out the meaning of "teamwork". Like, even though thor is a literal god, captain america is the "leader". They always work together and really emphasize the fact that none of them are enough, alone. Meanwhile, dc is just like "Superman, kill him."
@@nono-ch8oy Thor is not a god in the MCU. Asgardians are a different species and humans just happen to call them gods. Even then, Thor is arguably the most powerful avenger, maybe second only to Captain Marvel, but both of them have limitations and can fail. If it wasn't this way it would be just like OP said, "Thor, kill him"
This is DCs main problem. Superman is just to powerful and simplistic. The plot always has to be some variation of bad guys using cryptonite to make Superman vulnerable.
Justice league never had a chance to develop, thanks to Geoff johns, he rushed everything Snyder did and ruined the whole cut. A reason why fisher spoke up about his toxic environmental production. Snyder's version will be so much better.
But the action wasnt even good, im trying to think of positives but in all aspects justice league was a bad movie, doesnt even need to be compared to avengers
Agreed. I had absolutely no clue that there were so many similarities! And yes, now that I know that, the difference in how I feel about these two films becomes even more evident
Yea I was definitely more & more shocked when he kept going with the similarities lol!! The movies are so similar & so beyond completely different! I've always preferred Marvel over D.C. cause Spider-Man is my all time favorite but I do love some D.C. Characters & hope they do get back on the right course. It would be even better if both factions were equally great cause it's better for us. Rambling a lil sorry lol
They’re being extremely selective lol. You can analyze any 2 movies from completely different genres and put them under a microscope and find things that are similar to shape the narrative they want to push. Ofc it helps that they’re both superhero movies but still, if you step back they’re very different.
My biggest problems with justice league and the DC movies in general is that they put Superman on a pedestal far above the other heroes. Superman is basically the savior of all, has only one weakness, Lois lane once again is the only one that can tame him when he wakes up, he easily beats Stepenwolf even tho he is supposed to be at max power . I always enjoyed Superman growing up but they have made him the central character of justice league. The Avengers did a much better job highlighting each individual characters strengths and weakness.
This! Superman needs to be rewritten to have STRICT limits to his strength again. With other characters that have similar powers but actual weaknesses (Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman) why have Superman other than he's DCs posterboy. I think the best thing DC can do at this point is show off other characters. Let's get a Zatanna and Constantine movie going that leads into a Batman WITHOUT Joker/2Face/Riddler.
This is only because DC were more realistic (within the bounds of sueprhero mythology) about their heroes. If it doesn't make for a more enjoyable story, it's a problem with the audience.
@@museruse1 I believe it’s actually the opposite , especially within the comic Books . Marvel has explained each hero’s powers and how they were acquired , Many of DC heroes were born with their powers and the only explanation attributed was that they are aliens or gods / demigods.
@@golfgod6243 Yeah, this is true, many heroes in Marvel acquired their powers rather than be born with them, and it was actually quite fulfilling to follow that journey. In DC too, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg, etc acquired their powers. Superman was born a normal kid on Krypton and was powerful as a result of being sent to another planet. Wonder woman trained, made mistakes and learnt before becoming 'The' Wonder Woman (a problem I have with 1984 is that they left out this arc, I agree) and characters like Aquaman and the Martian Manhunter were probably born with their powers. I agree that something like Captain America's whole story arc with Bucky is stunningly beautiful, but similarly, the lore around The Joker and Two Face etc. in DC doesn't fall short of anything.
My favourite moment in the arguing scene is right after the engine gets blown. Tony and steve both kind of fall over, and even though they were literally to the point of wanting to kill the other a second ago, steve still helps tony up and I just think that's beautiful
It’s just Steve’s genuine good nature, this is why he was chosen by the Doc to receive the super serum since It would enhance every quality of him, and there’s no bad qualities about Steve.
Marvel: actually creating an understandable and a legendary timeline DC: here's a bunch of heroes, make them fck around until superman comes and save the day
@@masterdevoe2519 Joss Whedon came in to finish after Snyder left The Studio then took over and you see the results DC needs to be it’s own studio like marvel
Omg I feel like an absolute jackass not realizing the striking similarities between these two films simply due to the fact one is fun, interesting, a joy to watch, and exciting, while the other is a powder-keg dumpster fire about to explode.
Marvel's pro's: 1. Prolific writers. 2. Vibrant and colorful storyline. 3. Clear timeline 4. Acting spontaneous. NOT forced. 5. Intriguing origin stories of superheroes. 6. Characters equipped with profound biography. Audiences can relate. 7. Unparalleled teamwork. 8. Storyline has a lot of substances and elements that make the audiences ask for more. “No amount of money ever bought a second of time.” -Tony Stark "But what is grief, if not love persevering." -Vision "We never lose our demons, Mordo. We only learn to live above them." -The Ancient One “You’re right. I’m only human.” -Captain Marvel “You can’t destroy power. All you can do is make sure it is in right hands.” -Hank Pym “Given the chance and given your power, I’d bring my mom back. I know I would.” -Monica “You are my sadness and my hope. But mostly you are my love.” -Wanda "He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy." -Yondu “We won Mr. Stark. We won.” -Spider-Man “I don’t judge people on their worst mistakes.” -Black Widow
JL was probably trying to piggyback on the existing cartoons and movies made of the characters. What Marvel did was make solo movies for each of their big characters before avengers which all hinted at avengers then used those movies as backstory for the avengers instead of any pre-existing cartoons or movies. The movies before avengers were practically written to set up avengers while Justice League tried to use the old batman and superman movies asa backstory for Batman v Superman which was backstory for JL. Where Avengers planned for 10 years specifically with this goal in mind, JL tried to shortcut those ten years by using the last 50 years of existing material which wasn't written for the purpose of setting up the ensemble movie. That's why it seems like JL was rushed even though they had more pre-existing setup material, the material wasn't setting up anything...
@@avisian8063 Yes marvel had the same amount of material to prepare for avengers but instead of using that as background for the movie, they used it as source material to make each of the solo films that were then used as background for the avengers movie. JL only made movies to set up JL for characters that didn't already have movies, and not even all of them at that. Not everyone has seen the old cartoons or read the comics so introducing the flash and cyborg to them now with no context could be confusing (When marvel did it, the 'new' characters had already made appearances in other films and didnt have any super powers, so even without solo films they werent new). Then they also included characters like batman and superman which, aside from batman v superman, didn't get new movies to set up for JL. They only made solo films for some of the characters (Wonder Woman and Aquaman) when they should've made at least one movie for each of the characters. That would've set up the audience to recognize the actors, understand their powers, and already know their backstory before the movie started. Instead of establishing backstory for half the characters at the start of the film, they could've made references to them like in avengers. TL;DR Yes justice league was rushed but marvel didn't rely entirely on their older material for the ensemble film, they made solo films to prep the audience while JL assumed teyh already knew things
@@anthonycannet1305 I don't really follow your train of thought tbh. Seemed you were saying they weren't rushed, but actually you are saying they were rushed. Yeah, DC seems to just assume people know their characters and has done very little to set them up. I agree.
That was literally the smoothest transition into a commercial I've ever seen. You actually got me to watch like the first 10 seconds of it before fast forwarding. Props.
Why Avengers Worked and Justice League Didn’t ANSWER: Avengers is about about 20 different movies that took time to develop characters. whereas Justice League was a dark dreary cluster fuck with no solid foundation that was rushed to catch up with 12 yrs worth of Avengers movies
Was Katty Perry your math teacher in school? Because your numbers don't add up. When The Avengers came out, there were five movies preceeding it, one of which was a box office failure and starred a completely different actor in the role that was recast for The Avengers. And I also fail to see where exactly Justice League was "dark and dreary". It was the complete opposite of that. It was family-friendly as family-friendly PG-13 can get.
@@antona.1327 well i mean they were just starting out so those 5 movies wouldnt be golden at first and also i thought only the Incredible hulk movie was bad? i mean Iron man 1 was good at least right?
You are so right I couldn't have said it better myself DC cannot make up its mind on how many Batmans they have, they have yet to tie together the jokers its a big waste of time
@@antona.1327 lamo 1 multiple character as opposed to how many Batman's do they have again and Jokers and they have yet to make sense out of all of them
literally his idea immediately made me emotional and i havent seen a SINGLE DC movie. not one. its both embarrassing for the filmmakers that as a whole production they couldnt come up with better but like on the other hand, hire this man?????
actually he did it in just 5mins and 25secs!!! : ) His awesome "rewrite" starts right at the 12min mark - so hello peeps @ScreenCrush ...send Ryan to Hollywood asap to hook up with any and all WarnerBros directors ; )
I agree with every point made about how marvel humanized the "superhuman" characters and DC didn't. Another noteworthy point is the evident chemistry between the actors in Marvel that is lacking in DC.
This is why I like Marvel better then DC. Marvel's most popular heros are regular humans given great power and great resposibility. DC heros (besides the bat themed one) are mainly aliens or nonhuman beings that protect earth. I do like Doom Patrol from DC that focus more on human heros.
@@kaberas.coldvoid4845 it show you know next to nothing about fan favourites in dc as apart from aquamarine, superman , wonder woman and supergirl fout of the top 10 the rest are all human
"We're going to lose but we're going to fight anyway" reminds me of that quarrel in Avengers AoU: "How are we gonna fight it?" "Together" "We'll lose" "We'll do that together too"
I feel like you're only half right there. The Avengers do have a Superman equivalent, Disney just did a good job of nerfing him so that the other Avengers get some screen time
@@mayanksaxena01 absolutely true, they copy each other so often that it's hard to keep up. but iirc, Thanos was just the diet cola version of darkseid right?
That scene where the Avengers are arguing in the presence of the sceptre seems very similar to the scene in The Fellowship of The Ring where they are arguing in the council at Rivendale about the One Ring.
The One Ring is an archetypal symbol representing power without social constraint. It's a pastiche of the Ring of Gyges, which Plato used specifically to talk about the nature of morality and the corrupting influence of power.
Marvel always leaves Easter eggs that you don't realize are there until almost 4 movies later. Which quite honestly makes it so I want and need to see each movie more than once. They have so many layers it's mind boggling. They plan ahead. It's not just make 1 movie at a time. Its art and complex
The main concept that explains why Avengers worked and Justice League didn't, is that all of the Avengers had previously been introduced and most of them already had solo movies. Whereas Justice League took it upon itself to introduce half the cast's personality and capabilities within the movie.
This is such a shallow point. It doesnt matter who got a movie first. It matters if the movie is actually good. They only introduced 3 of the characters, not all six. Nothing wrong with half
@@ndo533 The point wasn't the half. The point was the movie had to introduce us to Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg before they could do anything, using up a lot of run time that could have instead contributed to the main plot.
@@kukuhindustanigamer3663 You liken Guardians of the Galaxy to Justice League and Avengers? (Which is not only Marvel but also clearly introduced only brand new characters instead of blending new and old while supposed to be focusing on a larger plot) This isn't intended to be an argument. There are many reasons why Justice League wasn't as successful as Avengers. If you don't agree with what I consider "the main reason", that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone.
man, you hit it right on the nose. none of the dc movies have made me feel invested in the characters or their stories. the heroes are only heroes - theyre not human. but marvel has always made their characters feel relatable and human. theyre just like us, and it has made the audience /that/ much more invested in them.
@@RoxDZoro youre missing the point buddy. marvel heroes FEEL human. they have human flaws, human characteristics, human jokes, human thought processes, human day-to-day problems. the audience can empathize with them more bc they feel much more real.
@@CHRYSALISM and they are the cause of their own problems. Iron Man creates his enemies. Thor is a dick who made Loki resentful. Hulk made himself and was literally a monster. CA is the only one who didn’t. I love the movies because they are fun but they are as deep as a dried up kiddie pool.
To this day, that argument scene in Avengers makes me squirm. It just makes the audience feel so uncomfortable, like you’re in the middle of the tension
Yes but it gave the Avengers more substance. You can see their motivation, their egos, their anger. With the Justice League, nothing matters until Superman shows up, since the other heroes might as well be member of a barbershop quartet for all the success they had on their own.
My favourite part was when Bruce Banner starts getting a little angry and Nick Fury says "YOU need to calm down" and you can really see that he's scared. That tension is palpable.
The problem is there was no set up for JL. They wanted to rush a movie to "compete with Avengers" instead of taking the time and doing the work of several preceding movies to set up the universe. Had we had several set up movies for the DC characters that led up to JL like we did with Avengers, JL would have worked. Blame greed, envy, shortsightedness and impatience.
Also having superman completely stomp the entire team and beat steppenwolf single handedly removed any climax or excitement from the film. Superman needs to be tone down. Power rangers did something similar by having tommy be the glory hog and most powerful of the group and it resulted in the series tanking in ratings.
Tell me...why should DC do the same like Marvel did..?? Like...bla bla solo movies before big team up movie bla bla bla...?? The thing is..people wanted Marvel 2.0 : The DC version...they didn't want the DC universe. Let DC do it their own way and be open to it.. I'm so happy we didn't get a copy of the MCU with the whole solo movie stuff..pleaasee...
@@magdalenecastillo2905 Supes is indeed the hardest hitter of the team...can't deny that fact. Did you react that same way when watching Justice League War..??
@@LongjoyNl Justice league war was handled better since each member played a part and darkseid wasn't one shotted like steppenwolf was by superman. the final battle of JL film, the threat could have been stopped by superman alone (without breaking a sweat) with cyborg assist. Thus, removing any tension/fun or suspense to the film. This is how marvel wins and DC fails. Marvel does not make the other members of the team look like crap to prop up one hero even though there are clear differences in their power level. For example. while thor is arguably the heavy hitter on avengers they did not make iron man look like a complete pansy in their battle.
I mean, the films he compares are both roughly 4 years after the first movie in the series, Iron Man to Avengers is like just over 4 years by a few days, Man of Steel to Justice League is roughly 4,5 years the difference is, in Iron Mn they tried to put so much lore and world building that they had hooks for later movies that would also work for other characters, the Incredible Hulk did the same, Iron Man 2, Thor and Captain America latched onto those hooks and placed new ones, they referenced back to each other we also had seen everyone except Maria Hill, the Other (and the Chitauri), and the World Security Council prior to the Avengers, so there was no big thing of "who is this and what can they do?", I mean, I guess we got a new Bruce Banner, but that's all Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau took a risk in Iron Man and it paid off for JL there were 2 individual movies and Batman V Superman, there was no build at all, even Wonder Woman didn't build towards her appearance in BvS, there is no united world, every movie can be seen alone and not miss anything
What Marvel did really well in the early stages was making their movies something you could understand and enjoy without having seen the others, but also with subtle hints that were exciting if you had (I.E Phil Coulson's involvement). Iron Man, if not a superhero movie, would be a cool war film-esc science fiction movie about a guy who builds a robot suit of armor in a cave with scraps and then decides to use his second chance at life fixing his mistakes with a lot of action and futuristic technology. Captain America TFA, if not a superhero film, would be a more traditional sci-fi story set in WWII about an underdog who gets turned into a powerful super soldier and has to fight an evil counterpart super soldier. Thor is already the most unique from a typical superhero movie and had it not been made by Marvel, it probably wouldn't be considered one. The plot feels like if it was animated, it would be something Disney, Pixar, or possibly DreamWorks might make. It's a fun fantasy movie about alien versions of the Norse gods (which is already quite a mix of genres without the rest of the MCU) in which one of them gets turned mortal and sent to Earth where he has to react to the modern world and prove himself worthy before regaining his powers. Even the Avengers I was able to follow despite not having seen any of the films that came before it. DC on the other hand seems to require you to have seen Man of Steel and BvS for Justice League to make sense. I can't really say that for sure as I had seen most of them before JL, but if their movies don't stand on their own two feet without the rest of the DCEU, it feels less like a connected universe and more like one big, long series.
More like DCEU. DC has great universe in their animation movies and we call it DCAMU. Flashpoint Paradox is the greatest superhero movie, imo better than any MCU movies. Too bad people don't care about animation.
I agree with what you’re saying. Wow! I was thinking the exact same thing you were saying when I saw the justice league movie. All plot, no story. No drama. And that’s what you go to see a movie for his drama
Don't feel bad! The stories are designed from a template. Just cause the template is the same, doesn't mean the content has to be. Some films can be made from gold, others from pewter. The important thing is that you enjoyed them and had fun discussing them with others!
Well. It takes studying writing. I am developing a tv series ideas (for fun and who knows what may come from that) and I studied how to make it and takes a lot on construction piece by piece. You are lucky, because after studying the industry and understanding the writing I have never watched a series or a movie the same way. 😂
Try rewatching movies after youve kinda forgotten them, keeping always an eye out for hints in the setting and dialogue. I find it helpful to already know the major plot lines because that way i have time to gravitate towards the smaller things that are shown.
When we were watching JL in the cinema, all we thought was just get superman in there and it's done. the other heroes are not needed. When superman entered the final scene and just smashed the villain like nothing and nothing it is, no stakes no emotion all they need is display the word Fin. Meanwhile, Avengers is like they cannot win without the other. each has a task they have to make. Hawk marks target and positions, BW support, Cap still rescues people amidst the turmoil, Hulk smashes while Thor supports him with lightning. Ironman distracts the enemy until finally, he met with the enemy leader face to face. 1 Team faces Loki another team faces the tesseract closing the portal and another team general evacuation and public defense.
Marvel specifically makes challenges for each character, my favorite examples of this is endgame, where almost every "minor" character gets a moment to shine
I feel DC would've been successful if they took their time creating the films. Marvel had a decade of character developments. That's why the deaths of Endgame and Infinity War impacted a lot of Marvel fans or even casual fans. DC was a bit rushed and wanted to catch up with the hype as well. Now that the Snyder cut is out, I believe DC can have an opportunity to continue making these movies. Overall, both franchises created our childhood.
Marvel was purchased by Disney which gave them Infinite Money and Infinite Resources and Infinite time to make good movies. All DC movies are funded by at least 2 up to 5 different Companies because Warner Bros isn’t big enough to fund movies like Disney can. Because of this fact, DC movies end up coming out like shit because what we don’t see are the ceaseless and never ending arguments taking place behind the scenes with those 2-5 different Companies who all funded millions of dollars into this movie, and thus feel they should have **Their** movie created over what the other companies desire. This leads to multiple Directors being hired for each company, different producers and cameramen constantly flowing in and out of positions, which ends with them essentially creating 2-5 entirely separate movies that they have to piece together so that “All companies have a stake and claim to money from it.”
@@hexmaster6267 2008 was when iron man 1 released. End game came out 11 years later in 2019. That’s a full decade of character development right there.
@@thomyorkesrighteye -- Thank you! That was the most striking distinction for me between the scenes. Fancy camera work is nice, but being able to see the characters' expressions? Priceless.
blame for wb/dc for wanting avengers level profits without any of the work/dedication/patience. also, blame snyder for not realizing how gargauntuan of a task it was for any one person (let alone, a director) and choosing to go through with it instead of pushing to have more set up.
Another one with the same stupid argument. That ain't a Standard for Storytelling. A writer can tell the story the way he wants since he is the author. He can drop "3 to 4 to 5 big events" whatever he wants IF it fits with what he is telling. By your logic every movie needs to build up his audience before THE movie with each individual character that there is. You see how pointless that argument is?
@@ericalexcantero8249 ok ill bite. most movies dont usually have 6 lead characters in a single movie. while you are correct that isnt a standard for story telling, the fact is the general movie audience isnt familiar with half of this movie's justice league team. sure, they may recognize flash or aquaman but could they tell me their basic origin stories or even their alter ego names without looking it up or someone helping them out? im sure you personally can but the vast majority of them can NOT and thats not even including cyborg. releasing multiple movies prior to the big team up would have given audience much more familiarity with these characters and you wouldnt have to spend so much of the big team up movie building them up and instead focus on the plot itself. introducing those 3 in a single scene from one previous movie, showing off their abilities in videos and not even interacting with the big 3 isnt just lazy and rushed, its boring. at this point, you might be thinking "marvel didnt release a black widow movie or a hawkeye movie before avengers 1." while this is true as well, black widow did have a significant part in both story importance and screen time in iron man 2. while hawkeye only had a small cameo in thor 1 and got the short end of the 6 in terms of prior exposure, he was built up during the events of avengers 1 vs justice league having to build up 3. maybe if flash had more than a single cameo in suicide squad, aquaman had a significant part in wonder woman and cyborg in man of steel but none of that ever happened. now, you might also be thinking, "blame wb/dc for rushing things. snyder was just doing the job he was hired on for." while true again, hes not some rookie director making a film about original characters for sundance. hes using THE most recognizable superheroes in the world and putting them alongside 3 others who are nowhere NEAR their level and releasing that movie worldwide, on top of constant worldwide advertisement. expecting the general audience to do prior research such as reading comic books, watching animated movies or the arrowverse shows in order to offset that giant differential and understand a movie isnt a standard for story telling either.
@@Queentiffytime where and how did you get captain marvel into this? the discussion was about how to best introduce the various team members in avengers 1 vs justice league to the general public. besides, captain marvel did its job and introducing people to her in preparation for endgame. i will agree that story and writing do make a significant difference and that snyder cant do either properly. maybe the guy should just stick to cinematogarphy instead.
I love it🔥🔥🔥 Although I wish Superman was a bit more powerful, Also Wonder Woman was Nerf She was supposed to be on par with Superman In the comics But they nerf Her for some reason.
@@nightmare_1874 I’m more into Marvel than DC but, thanks for reminding me of that. I did think it was weird watching Wonder Woman get her ass beat so easily by lesser characters because to my knowledge, she is supposed to be somewhat on Superman’s level…?
The reason JL didn’t resonate with the audiences is simple, really. How am I supposed to relate to a god, or a goddes, or a billionaire? Because that’s all they are. They have no substance, and they are too overpowered. I don’t really care about them. Now, Tony Stark is also a billionaire, but his struggles and his personality make him likable. I care whether he succeeds, and i care whether he lives or dies. And I actually freaking cried when he died, because by that point he feels real, so his death feels like the loss of a friend. Thor is also a god, and had the same problems his DC counterparts have, but they managed to humanize him in both Ragnarok and Endgame. Taika’s version of Thor in Ragnarok is absolutely brilliant, it made me love this character so much more. This works for every Marvel superhero. Like, Caps my favorite now, after how brilliantly written Winter Soldier and Civil War were. They need to give these incredibly overpowered superheroes human struggles, and the movies are gonna be so much better.
Oh now DC will go and give all of them meth addiction and probably abusive parents in the flashback. Maybe kill-off a lover for good measure. Gotta be gritty and dark and oversaturated.
The way Justice league showed the movie was that if superman was alive then that bad alien( I don't remember his corny ass name) wouldn't even had dare come to earth.
Plus I think that Captain Marvel was marvel worst movie and a better actor could have been casted as Captain Marvel. Shazam was pretty good but the villains in DC are way too unbelievable. Just look at mosquito man in Aquaman movie
I completely agree with everything you wrote, you can literally watch all the marvel characters grow through the years and figure out their powers. DC just revamps all their hero’s
The Avengers was carefully planned in advance with multiple individual movies to set up the group. A lot of groundwork was laid. Nearly all the characters were introduced prior. The DCU was rushed. Half the Justice League was introduced in the movie (Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman). Of the remaining 3, Superman was the only character introduced into the DCU with a solo film (Batman and Wonder Woman being introduced in BvS), with Wonder Woman having a solo film between BvS and JL.
Even more than that, the Avengers starts with six people: Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Thor. Four of these people need some serious explanation, each getting their own movie, and two not so much - IM2 was enough to give us Widow's deal, and Hawkeye's few scenes in Thor were similarly pretty adequate. Five steps leading into the teamup, four and a half if you discount Hulk's turn being removed from the MCU. Meanwhile, DC gets a grand total of three movies before they rush in, and they waste two of them on reintroducing characters who've been in the public eye for decades - not to mention killing one of them. So three weird-ass metahumans need time in this movie to show who they are and what they do, in addition to resurrecting Superman. Justice League got rushed, and as a consequence has to be super-long or not have time for an actual plot.
warner bros* the thing that a lot of people forget is that the problem isnt dc and its characters, its the people handling the characters: warner bros.
6:26 showcases an INCREDIBLE acting moment from Mark. that little head tilt/stutter? that's him *trying* to calm down. say what he needs to say as Bruce, not the big guy. his neck even jolts the way it does when he's transforming. it's little moments like this, acting gems, that make the characters so real
I REALLY like Mark Ruffalo as a Hulk. He's an incredible actor and he as Bruce gives off that vibe of the scientist who doesn't really want to harm anyone and hates Hulk inside him and doesn't want to use him. He as Bruce feels like fluff or teddy bear, just a really smart teddy bear, and I love it because you can see why he's so different from other Avengers but part of them at the same time and why Natasha fell in love with him
Marvel: Builds a universe slowly over the course of a couple of decades DC: throws away all its previous films and does new origin stories every few years because it still makes money
I think Justice League is what happens when the studio hires a director to make Beef Wellington, and then at the last half hour kicks the chef out and tells a new chef to make it into chocolate cake.
You glossed over the part where the first chef alienates two-thirds of the potential customers because he refuses to cook the beef wellington at any temp other than rare/borderline Raw cuz that's how HE likes his meat...
More than that. Loki is entertaining, witty, stylish, and cunning. His plan is smart, using the heroes against each other, and if not for a few complicating factors like Black Widow he would have succeeded in unleashing the hulk and destroying the helicarrier and both the Avengers and SHIELD'S HQ in one fell swoop. And he did most of it from a prison cell, which he intended to be in after causing a massive distraction while his team covertly picked up what he needed. Loki isn't a physical threat to most of the heroes individually, let alone together. He's instead a brilliant intellectual threat and manipulator. As a bonus, we already know him from Thor and understand him to be a serious threat from his antics in that movie. Steppenwolf is not interesting. He's a brute villain world ending threat coming up against a team who have already in their solo outings defeated Zod (a world ending physical threat) and Ares (a master manipulator and world ending physical threat) and Doomsday (A world ending physical threat). He is arguably less of a physical threat than any of these three, with two being equal to Superman and the third being the literal god of war. The army of flunkies are the only real reason why most of these heroes even have anything to do. His plan is unsubtle and boring. Smash Amazons, Acquire Cube. Smash Atlanteans, Acquire Cube. Smash Humans, Acquire Cube. Smash Cubes together, win. That's a plan that Hulk could have come up with. Not Banner, Hulk.
Yeah, and a weak one at that. While Loki is better by default, because he's played by an actual actor (albeit, wearing a goofy, fake-looking cosplay costume), he's still a weak villain in on himself because he serves no other purpose than to hunt the McGuffin and then use it to justify an entire army of CG alien monkeys crawling from their woodwork in space and kicking off an overblown CG finale with mindless kabooms and lazy jokes. He really serves no plot purpose or threat once the Chitauri come out. That's why his final stand is so comically bad - when he gets beaten like a doll by Hulk. Corny character.
@@antona.1327 it's already established that Loki is a mastermind, not a muscle. It's like saying Littlefinger is useless because he's not fighting during wars. Both of them had an unsatisfying comeuppance, but their impact to their respective franchises shouldn't be ignored
@@antona.1327 yea but if that’s the case then every super hero movie end fight sense is bad because it’s all a big cgi show down, like Batman v Superman with its big monster vs Superman finale
Wasn't the backup plan also Lois? Which they definitely used to snap him out of it? Seeing Henry Cavill actually play Superman instead of whatever he was playing in the two other movies were definitely the highlight for me in this movie.
All Marvel had cheesy CGI. In fact, the dark, gritty tone in Endgame felt and looked like a day time soap opera. This is why Disney/Marvel took the safe route, and made typical American action cinema, with bad jokes, and pretty colors, that way dumb people like The Rookie here, would eat it up. It's actually a trend to like Marvel. Reminds me of a cult of stupid.
@@Yono_A1533 why cant people just enjoy movies for being good movies? Why do we have to say the MCU sucks and DC sucks. Cant we just acknowledge they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
@@denhamfree1871 i love Marvel and DC, and i used to be an mcu fan, but the movies has became so formulaic and cheesy that i can't enjoy them anymore. But yeah i was too hard, the mcu doesn't sucks but for now i'm not interested in any mcu movie except for doctor strange 2 and spiderman 3.
It's actually apples and oranges. Even though it entails a TON of hard work and many, many details, making The Hulk believable is actually much less difficult than erasing a mustache. It sounds ridiculous, but hear me out. Hulk is a big green dude unlike anything that exists on this world. You accept it because it is realistic enough that you buy Hulk being there, but your mind knows it's looking at a drawing so it doesn't really have a problem with what it's seeing. It's a whole other matter with the face. You know who Henry Cavill is, you know what he looks like, and you DEFINITELY know what a face should look like and how it should move. Trouble is, your mind is seeing something close enough to the real deal, but there's something wrong, something sticking out, bad enough that it keeps thinking "What the hell's wrong with Henry Cavil's mouth?". That's not to say a better job couldn't have been made....but if you stick an animated upper lip on top of a familiar face, chances are your mind will know it's looking at something unnatural and call it out.
I'd say Avengers gets away with it because it doesn't look realistic. Even for colorful cinematography they over-saturate and over-light scenes which gives it a very comic book feel. Hulk doesn't feel out of place because he's as colorful as everything else. Designers first thought you would have to tone down and/or wash out the colors in order to make a comic book film feel realistic but Avengers proved that even a colorful composition can look perfectly fine on the big screen. Just look at previous comic book films prior like Blade, X-Men, Spiderman, earlier Hulk films, hell even the MCU Captain America film, all of the colors were washed out and costumes made to look gritty and "realistic". Compare Cap's first suit to the one he wears in Avengers, it's much more vibrant and less busy. Hulk looks like he's there not because he looks realistic, not because he blends in, but everything blends in with the visual style.
The Snyder cut redeemed Justice League in many ways. Still can't stand side by side with the Avengers, but I really enjoyed the Snyder cut version. It made Flash and Cyborg much more relevant than they were in the theatrical release. In that version they were pointless.
The main issue that NO DIRECTOR OR WRITER will EVER overcome is this: Marvel is an ensemble group and works well together with any of the pieces- you can mix-n-match any of them and come up with a great story line. Justice League is a disparate mix of single action performers who do not work well together. It’s not the actors fault- it’s the characters. Seriously... does Superman actually need anyone to work with??!! With all of Wonder Woman’s new powers that she’s NEVER had before, she is now Superman’s equal in every way. Batman doesn’t need Robin in any way except to groom him as his successor. Flash doesn’t need anyone, but he CAN be a nice second. Aquaman works in a different realm and shouldn’t even be with this group (Green Lantern should be his replacement). Cyborg is the truly interesting character as he is a fairly new development from the animated series and should get a stand alone film that can truly explore who he is and why he exists. But mixing any of these characters together feels forced and stilted. It always will be because they were created to be ALONE, not as a team. Marvel excels in this area and always will. JMHO
Ironic u said all that..cuz JLA was there before the Avengers (in the comic books). It's not that the DC characters weren't made to be in a group together...or they COULDN'T be worked into a single team... No. The key is in the writing. I mean...just look at all the Justice league comics..and animated series...they had worked really well..thus, JL is way more well known and liked than avengers BEFORE the movies ever came out. A Justice League movie could've as easily worked as the Avengers..IF wb didn't half-assedly setting em up..hired the RIGHT person/people to be in charge of em..and actually knew and respected the sources it came from.
@@themadafaka6839 And what does Jla existing before have to do with anything? And yes they liked the Jla series bc it was animated something you could watch instead of read but when Marvel was created that was it for dc, DC just died bc ppl started paying less attention to it than Marvel and when Marvle started producing movies that was over for DC
@@deionalbert8467 dc didn't die when marvel showed up. Dc never went bankrupt, marvel did. But..yeah, once iron man..then Avengers movies did their thing...game over for the dc brand..but more due to comic books as an industry is close to dying..which is a shame. And I hope it won't die. Ever.
At the beginning, when you’re listing all the similarities, the one thing DC doesn’t have is a Hawkeye so, therefore, he is what makes the difference and makes Avengers work! Honestly though, I’m only kind of joking. Marvel allows heroes to be made from anyone, even a human who just happens to be really, really good with a bow and arrow, versus the DC characters who all seem to need to be these extraordinarily overpowered beings.
@@killermakd2015 that’s fair, but if you think about Batman, essentially the DCEU’s Iron Man, as being the “low powered” one of the group, it still makes my point that they don’t have anyone as “ordinary” as Hawkeye and Black Widow.
@@srayj that's the whole point, no direct analogy can be set. Where would u put dr strange and spiderman in current dceu then? Batsies is usually compared with Tony but it ain't accurate at all!! There s gonna be a moon knight fr ok m mcu prolly....that can be still used.!!
@@killermakd2015 that’s literally iron man cause he uses technology but Hawkeye just uses bow and arrows and all these heroes have their shine even the guardians of the galaxy who have a bit above human strength and they are able to defeat people that destroy entire planets marvel did it the hard way and made it really difficult to make all characters shine but is something they build up
*Simple :* Marvel have relatable characters and storyline. They makes a small character memorable. For eg : When heroes were introduced to each other in Avengers, we can feel the awkwardness between them which makes it more real or the teen romance between Peter and MJ in FFH. Also we even cried for a tree in GOTG whom we were newly introduced.
Marvel made people cry fr an ant, a tree, a space pirate, a sex doll, & many others DCEU couldn't make people shed tears even fr the fucking Superman 2008 Abomination had more character & personality than 2016 Doomsday, who ws used just as the generic CGI monster fr a big climax fight (they repeated same mistake with WW) Basically their mistake ws thinking that MCU became so big bcoz it had many superheroes & big CGI fights, & they'll get same success by repeating the formula Another major reason is that MCU has a team of nerds, comic book buffs who know the material & significance of characters...they are connected to their stories DCEU ws all run by people who make movies...no connection whatsoever...to them these characters were just IPs
Because Marvel started their own studios and made an effort to own complete control of their storytelling on the big screen. That’s what made the difference. No dickhead studios exec’s calling the shots.
MARVEL turned its not-so-famous characters into a successful and famous franchise, but DC could not make a good film with characters who were very famous before the film, the difference is this.
Exactly, this. Thor, Iron-Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye? Really? Total no names, the only reason they used them is cause they weren't popular enough in the comics for other studios to be interested in buying the rights for before they started the MCU. The only one with any sway before this was Hulk!
@@tonydanatop4912 I'm saying none of the people they used in the MCU started off being all that popular in the comics. They're big now, but that's not at all their biggest names before this. Comic Marvel, X-Men, Spiderman, Fantastic Four were some of their biggest hits.
DC make amazing films its just marvel fans like u constantly criticise DC because u want marvel films to be better than they are but in reality endgame and far from home were disasters and the new marvel avengers game was dreadful where as DC's newest films are amazing and are getting better also DC absolutely destroy marvel in the gaming department with games such as the entire Arkham series, injustice series, DCUO, the lego batman series, etc where as marvel has marvel vs capcom and marvel avengers (spiderman doesnt count cause marvel didnt make it) which is terrible except marvel vs capcom but it isnt as good as the dc games.
The difference is Loki. Period. A charismatic, multi layered performance and dialogue. And even when he’s not on screen, everyone’s talking about him, he’s the driving force behind everything the heroes do.
Yess. And even he had his valid reasons. The backstory, the evil origin, the innocent rage and the likability. Now if you ask audience, Loki's a villian turned anti-hero turned hero. And he indeed brought avengers together 😉
@@romansionis2470 but there's so much difference. The reason, the direct harm, the manipulation..etc etc.. that was soo new then and better. Idk, but Marvel actors seem they know acting. Dc actors in Dc universe (not other movies)look blank, emotionless and just plain. Marvel, even ultron seemed true and geniune 🥺❤️
The biggest difference is Avengers was made wholeheartedly from scratch to finish by a filmmaker’s vision without much studio interference. JL on the other hand was a clusterfuck of production mess, from one director to another with contrasting styles which ultimately ended up butchering the movie’s overall tone and narrative. It’s all WB’s fault at the end of the day for being the biggest influence on why the movie bombed big time.
It's more their fault for hiring Snyder in the first place. They should have hired someone who actually likes & respects these characters. Not someone with such a hard-on for Watchmen that he tried to turn the DC universe into another Watchmen.
The problem with DC is privilege. Its heroes identities are inherited and even when a gift is accidental, its almost always certainly for the better (with Batman perhaps being the only exception). Its characters lack depth and the stories lack allegorical relevance (again, Batman and his villains being the notable exceptions) and also fail on originality therefore can only appeal to morons and douchebags. And...they thought we would be sold on it just because...of familiar "branding." Ugh. Reminds me...of something else...I don't care for very much... Yes, Marvel wins because we can actually imagine their characters losing. The struggle is real. 'Nuff said.
@@wj3186 i really dont understand why people like Snyder so much. He just doesnt work for me. All he has is pizzaz, nothing really. His vision is about his cinematics, trying for that moneymaking shot but it all just falls flat. Man of Steel is okay but the animated Superman still is better because he just misses what a Superhero movie is
They Just made a huge build up with good actors. Thats why its working. DC didnt do many movies conected and buidling up to a Big finale. Marvel now bringing Out stuff Like Wanda Vision, Loki, Spiderman 3... They will keep on going. Love it.
I think I'd attribute this to the colour palette. Marvel costumes are generally bright and stand out against the background. They look like they're meant to be noticed. DC ones blend more into the colours in the background so it almost seems like they're meant to be subtle. But intellectually you notice that they are costumes and they don't fit the surroundings. This disonnance makes the situation seem unreal and cheesy
I would say the Asgard costumes are all cheep too, just go back and watch the first Thor, you can see all the pointies moving around when they turn their heads.
I personally completely agree with Doug. I feel like his analysis gave us an in-depth look at each individual character's psyche and explained the interactions between each of the characters so well that even without any experience I could probably re-create it just by going off of what he said alone. In the future please give him more screen/speaking time to state his points.
For the life of me I will never understand why Batman in that scene was so adamant that Superman was a “beacon of hope”. Nothing that happened in the previous two movies did anything to suggest that Supes was anything resembling hopeful.
This is something that people still somehow don't understand. Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice. A lot of people took the V to literal. It's not Batman VS Superman. It's Batman V Superman. "V" is a sign of peace. And a sign of peace leads to hope. That's what they represent. No matter how scary the two of them are. Even scarecrow said it in Arkham knight. "True fear is the absence of hope. And hope, is the spread wings of a Bat, shining on the clouds." Batman is truly a terrifying specimen, but he represents hope. Superman is shown as a destructive force in MOS. But by the End of BVS, he sacrifices himself to save the world. By the end of the movie, he became a figment of hope. All this aside, Snyder understands these characters better than most people think. Some of his ideas of batman are pretty bad to me, but he still kills it nonetheless. Justice League one way or another is trash tho. So glad we are getting Snyders Cut lmfaoo.
MCU worked because they took their time building their characters story arc, everyone even the Villains were already properly introduced before The Avengers movie so the viewers already knew what they are watching. Meanwhile Justice League seemed like they rushed their Universe building. The Heroes weren't ready to team up, they needed more Solo movies of their own to hype the fans for the "Big Boss Villain". Instead DC already jumped to Justice League just so they could catch up to Marvel.
Yeah, Hawkeye was the only character to not have any actual serious screen time prior to Avengers. He just...stood on a lift with a bow for three minutes. Every other major character, including Loki, had characterization from previous movies.
@@Real_PrisiusBro, that's what I was talking about. He has like three minutes of screentime in Thor 1, but at least he existed before the Avengers movie brought them all together. Cyborg and Flash didn't get enough lead up, considering how relevant they were. Hawkeye gets a pass since he's not super important in that movie, considering he gets mind jacked for half of it.
@@NoodleKeeper and even then the mind hacking worked for the plot as it allowed Clint to be well utilised as an adversary beforehand and be built up as a great ally by Natasha talking about him so him joining the team felt earned and you felt like you got to know him by the end
I see a lot of people in the comments saying that "but marvel belongs to Disney, that's why they have money" and "but marvel's actors are way better" but what people forget is that when they produced the first iron man movie they were in a very low point, marvel was almost bankrupted, they had to sell their most popular heros to others company, with the money they could make the first iron man solo, ok Robert Downey Jr. Was already famous but he was for a long time out of Hollywood to drug problems and that was his comeback, so if the movie didn't go well, marvel was done. Then there's the actors, if you compare the actors of avengers and justice league, Chris Evans, Mark Ruffalo, scarlett johansson and Jeremy Renner, were more like romantic comedy actors, and Hemsworth was very knew. While the justice league Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill were already know from some movies, and Jason Momoa from game of thrones, so if you image that if this two movies came out at the same time probably justice league would get more attention at first, but we all know that anyway in the end avengers would take the cake.
Not to mention that Iron Man wasn't even that popular or likeable in the comics. It always confused me why this was the character the MCU chose to start with. But surprisingly it worked pretty well for them.
You saying this completely reminded me of the fact that if Marvel held out just a LITTLE longer, transformers probably could've been in one of the avengers films. Transformers was a Marvel thing before it was sold to Hasbro. I think transformers even had a crossover with the avengers PRE-hasbro purchase
@@sinnamonski685 transformers has always been owned by hasbro they teamed up with takra tomi to create a new ip for the west to sell diaclone under the comics were made by marvel yes but they didn’t own it they had the rights to make comics
I love both marvel and dc but stan lee said himself that when he and jack created their characters they wanted all of them to be relatable. Marvel literally focuses on their flaws and builds around that. Now im NOT saying DC doesn’t do that. But it’s really more prominent in everything thats marvel. Comics, movies, games, they always show the lowest point before showing the greatness.
You are right I mean Watch the trailer for Marvel's defenders Stan Lee wanted people to see his hero's as human to show people that even the strongest of people have problems and that even they can break sometimes
I agree. Even Thor, a literal God is divided weather he's worthy of protecting earth or not and sometimes his overconfidence and arrogance take control. On the other hand Superman is a flawless hero that nobody relates to and we just see a guy mindlessly defeating bad guys. The only superman movie I liked was superman 3 where he was gradually turning evil and clark kent defeated him. That was good character development. Imo marvel has so much more depth and thought put into the characters. This can also be seen in the comics
@@karusaaverse DC Heroes are over powerful to the point that making a villain doesn't make any sense because they will surely defeat it, especially SUPERMAN. MC Heroes are powerful but they got defeated and had greater challenges other than a villain and in the end they won not because of their super powers but because of overcoming their own demons and most especially because they were united. Justice League won against Steppenwolf because of Superman (They even resurrected him because Batman said they need Superman to defeat Steppenwolf) while Avengers won against Thanos because of Teamwork. Alone they can't win but together they can. Unlike in DC Superman was the reason why they won and the other heroes became his assistants. Lol
@@xiantejamo Marvel has also overpowered character Thor, Hulk, Scarlett Witches, If Superman is overpowered then Hulk is also Overpowered. Thor is another level. If you doesn't believe me then watch every "versus battle" You will find it better. If you are not then You should start liking Superman instead of Thor.
@@karusaaverse The moment superman was resurrected, he didn't even got wounds fighting the villain. While the avengers all got hurt, they we're powerless against thanos. No matter how powerful they are, they still got hurt and even lost loved ones. While justice league just kicked Steppenwolf's ass so easily like there's no sense of making a villain HAHA
Tori Rose...Marvel movies were made for dumb, simple minded people like you. Disney/Marvel took the safe route...Make typical, mindless, American action films, with bad jokes, and pretty colors and you get Marvel. Tori...It's because of dumb people like you, that bad movies make a lot of money at the box office. It's not the first time either...
I agree with the main point: DC is just about the movie. MCU is about the people and the relationships. There is "heart" in the MCU; you care about the people. DC has some good actors but we never buy into what they are selling. We don't care about them - and THAT is what they will need to fix if DC wants to compete with the MCU.
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The Avengers is Josh Whedon's own project. And it's a totally different scenario about Josh Whedon's take over of a project that isn't his. And the intentions of doing each project are also 100% different. So, I totally disagree with this channel's opinion of why one worked and the other one didn't. Got it!
And the reason why most Marvel movies are a hit is people are.not as familiar with their characters as those from DC and thus the curiosity is much higher. This curiosity is due to unpopularity of Marvel's comics and TV animated shows compared to that of DC.
[10:52] It's interesting how she is SO AGAINST bringing Superman back from the dead, BUT in WW84, she isn't reluctant at all in bringing Steve Trevor back, right? lol
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You guys have Walt Disney under Justice League @0:28
Can you please do reviews of lovecraft country
“these are not stable people” is probably the most accurate description of the avengers ever made 😭
This can aply for either: The Avengers or my friend group
Times like 3000+ opinions (get the 3000 reference there?) Avengers.
@@someoneontheinternet16 I mean even if they aren't I'll spend a day with the cast of avengers they are really cool group even out of set than a day with the cast of DC
@@Shahzad-ss1jq that is true
What are they?
A in over his head Millionare
A girl raised to be a russian assasin
A boy with anger issues
A 100 year old with a shield
Some guy whos not good at holding onto to poeple
Andd
A god
He seems good
I laughed so hard when you went through the similarities between the two films, I can’t believe I never realised how identical they both are
riiiiight ?
we dont notice all these when we watch the movies.
it stands to prove how Good Ryan is.
Well that’s Whedon for ya
Well, lot's of them were lies or worded in a way so it sounded like they are more similair then ghey actually are. Justice League is not that good of a movie, but it a lot different except a team up superhero movie that introduces new ones and aliens attack the earth.
@@AxxLAfriku are u okay?
You mean they’re similar because, as usual, DC is nothing but a copycat taking the crumbs MARVEL drops and shamelessly trying to bake a cake from them. It’s been going on for decades. From the 1960s, DC has been a copycat wannabe. Why did Warner HAVE to higher Joss Whedon. There are many other directors. WHY did it HAVE to be the Avengers director? Why did DC HAVE to get Daredevil’s writer (Frank Miller) to make Batman popular in the late 70s and 80s??? Why did OMAC project come out directly after Operation: Zero Tolerance in the 90s??? The “Judas Contract” comes out in response to the mother of all comic stories and female centric “Dark Phoenix” saga??? Just some evidence. Inspiration is one thing. Blatant rip offs are just DCs trademark.
That was THE smoothest transition into a sponsor that I've EVER seen!!
Yeah, it's so good that he made me watch it and not skip it.
IKR!!! DIDNT SEE IT COMING
That WAS slick
hell yeah 😈
@@RiderGeats Still skipped it!
Good video but I think we did indeed see Bruce's contingency plan: Lois Lane. He arranged for her to be there just in case Supes went dark, believing she could pull him back. Which is exactly what happened.
Thank you I came to the comments for this. His contingency plan was obviously Lois Lane, not kryptonite that we "didn't get to see" (but we eventually do anyways).
This is what makes superman so unrealistic, Lois Lane seriously he's a fucking God
@@Astrotase but she’s about as 1 dimensional as a dot
I love how avengers endgame answers this discussion... tony has grown to the point where he does make the sacrifice play, and steve has grown to the point he does make the selfish choice
You're half right. Tony makes the sacrifice play to beat Thanos, completing the arc setup for him in that Avengers scene the video referenced. The resolution to Steve's arc from that scene is when he lifts Mjolnir during the Thanos fight, proving that "everything special about him" didn't come from a bottle, as Tony says.
@@Eliteish 👈🏻 He's right.
Plus, can't remember anymore who actually said it in the past MCU films, but I somehow remember someone telling Steve to go get a life, reason why he did what he did in the end of Endgame.
@@terrorazeing It was Peggy who said it to him in Captain America The Winter Soldier
@@Eliteish Its exactly what Dr Erskin said. "My formula amplifies a person's "insides", which means good becomes better and bad becomes worse".
So everything special about Steve Rogers just got amplified by that bottle. He was a good man, the bottle made him better. Sure he made mistakes along the way, crucial mistakes but thats because hes only human and those mistakes were written in a way to emphasize his humanity.
@@elsaboullier3298 no it was tony
As a team, trust is a must. Avengers, in the beginning, was not a team, but it became one. And then it became a family. A MARVELous family.
Stop 😂
Bro
I cant
AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO U SAID MARVELOUS
I'm watching this video while playing hitman 3, hello bald guy
Avengers: The Heroes United
Justice League: The Search For Superman
You forgot Captain Marvel.
As soon as superman comes they win the fight, he single handedly defeats the bad guys. But the avengers had to fight together to defeat them.
Justice league sucked
Plus the aliens in avengers look way more believable
@@MrALenCar321 in the movie avenger doesnt rely on captain marvel .. all fight together . mcu nerf many character to make it balance so no character outshadow other character like superman he too strong tht everyone start to look weak .
@@MrALenCar321 She wasn't there yet, fortunatelly.
Yo for real how you gonna make a movie with a character like that
There’s also a bigger thing that makes Marvel work…we grew with most of the characters. Most of them all had their own movies and interactions outside of the movie so we grew with them. Not much of the case with DC and their many shifts from continuity and changes.
I think this only applies if you are less than 24 and grew up watching the MCU movies. If you are older than that, you've maybe seen Iron Man cartoons and Hulk. But Captain America, Hawkeye, Thor, black widow, scarlet witch, none of those characters had much presence on the media exceptfor the comics. Marvel went bankrupt in 1996, son at that point the only movies we had seen were spiderman and fantastic 4 and X-men, because they sold those rights to sony.
On the other hand, DC had batman, Superman and wonder woman everywhere, Flash was always knowns as the "fast" superhero, Cyborg was in teen titans, and well, Aquaman was kind of a meme at that point. But everybody knew those guys.
@@fedeu I’m actually older than 24 and only had exposure to the MCU movies (plus The Incredible Hulk and four Spider-Man movies). Captain America and Thor both had movies prior to The Avengers, and Black Widow appeared in Iron Man 2. Scarlet Witch didn’t appear until Ultron (not including post credits scenes). Hawkeye was new but the majority of the heroes we were already presented with in the MCU.
Edit: Missed the DC Universe parts of your post but I didn’t feel like I connected with most of those characters because although they were presented, they were presented in different formats and with different actors so it didn’t feel cohesive.
@@HylianDrew94 Oh ok, yeah, maybe the age restriction I set was unnecesary. And yes, the MCU built it's universe movie by movie, so it was 10 years ahead of DC when they finally assembled a team.
But I meant to say that many of this DC characters were already known to older people because of cartoons, movies and pop culture. So DC kinda thought that they could skip the individual movies and go straight to the team. Which could have been a good idea, if the story was compelling enough, which it wasn't. Guardians of the galaxy is a movie with a team of unknowns, and it does work, because the story and the characters are better written.
@@fedeu Well put! I see where you’re coming from. Guardians of the Galaxy is a great example of that. I’ve been meaning to watch the Snyder Cut of Justice League as I’ve heard the extra content paints a better story.
Wow. Just wow. Each of you (Fede U included) had an argument that ultimately ended in a compromise. Unheard of by today's standards. I wish things like this were as common as this exchange.
When Superman showed up for the final fight, after the 'buildup', he threw 3 punches then asked Batman what to do and no one cared. When Thor showed up in Wakanda in Infinity War, people stood up and cheered in the theater.
That part as well as when Captain America's team+beard shows up to help Wanda and Vision.
@@meta1152 yeah that scene is the best, until they lose
To be fair, they had a decade's worth of build up to that moment.
@@phabiorules right? That's my point. Even if snyder's cut is a better movie, it's never gonna be the same feeling, because there's no build up.
wait hold on don't you mean bucky in wakanda at the end of infinity war
Flash: "What are your superpowers again?" Batman: "I am rich."
VS
Captain America: "Big man in a suit of armour. Take that off, what are you?" Tony Stark: "Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist."
We can see who has better writing.
Definitely
But also similar
@@senbonzakurakageyoshi662 too similar
Lol it’s the same guy 🤣
@@tomsiebert155 Same guy with the same lines
To me, DC should’ve fleshed out the characters first before they had a Justice League movie. They rushed things to try to keep up with Marvel.
Exactly DC introduced some of their characters in a movie where they assemble instead of introducing everybody first so they we can see each person's set of skills and what and how they can all fight together. In Marvel only Hawkeye isn't introduced but we quickly see his skills.
@@ambershoba lmao he s getting one so late...prolly not even him but his daughter apparently.....
@@killermakd2015 but we know about him we’ve seen a bit of his life and seen him fight
@@ambershoba yeah yeah...but getting me? we got black widow standalone too right? thats what i meant
@Naomi Burgess You’re right, so when they assembled we had been introduced to all of them
loki was not using the sceptre to manipulate them into arguing, that shot hints at how the sceptre brings out the worst in people, think of it like horcruxes in hp
Marvel never fails me when it comes to easter eggs, connecting the dots and mind blowing stories, even the side characters we saw on previous movie plays important role on the future Marvel movies
The college student in incredible hulk( 2008) is now peter parkers teacher, mr harrington
Crazy
And they’re gonna start utilizing more and more old side characters and mixing them with new ones if WandaVision is any indication
Agreed! Like brock rumlow
yes like jimmy woo in wandavision
@@kyvesmith9092 and the principal is the grandson of one of the captain's howling commandos, speaking of captain, quill's grandma got an autograph from him
The real problem: The Avengers builded up by doing origin stories and individual movies FIRST. Justice League threw everything together in Dawn of Justice. There was no build up to the DCEU; the MCU took its time and turned out better.
People felt like they knew the characters in the avengers, over time from multiple movies, i went to see winter soldier and avgers civil war. and avnegers infinity war with my brother i loved it. Each movie from marvel drew me in.
Yea the justice league movie it’s all over the place they throw in so many things in there and there is new character being introduced too. They don’t even got enough time to developed each character back story for the audience to really care or feel anything special and this whole thing felt like director are in a rush just to complete the movie.
If Marvel had done what DC did they would have ended up just as bad. What DC did is like Marvel doing Captain America then Captain America Civil war and then doing Captain Marvel and then doing the Avengers then after that doing Thor then Spiderman and then Captain Marvel 2.
Exactly when it comes to the MCU i feel connected to the characters this is due to the fact on how much depth they go into the characters. When it came to the DC movies i felt as if it was just packed together, without any character depth.
Everyone felt much, much more attached to the characters because of that. Take a look at Tony Stark, for example. You can like his ego, but I think we can all agree that it was in the way. But that ego eventually turned into bravery more and more after The Avengers, all while remaining the man Tony Stark is.
I think we take for granted how much a work of genius the first Avengers was.
Fr still my favorite marvel movie haha
we take MCU for granted. In a world where most franchise movies lost their way as they make more sequels (F&F, Cars, DCEU, Star Wars, and even Harry Potter, and many more), MCU managed to stay relatively consistent with their characters and their own arcs, have compelling stories most of the time and when it comes to their weakest movies, they still manage to be decent and watchable.
Thank U.
Joss should’ve done all avenger films. He wouldn’t have ruined it at the end like the Russo bros did 🤷🏼♀️
@@lunajoyxiv ur in the minority on that line of thinking.
Sides...I don't blame joss to bow out and marvel to get the Russos... everything's just got much much bigger for just ONE MAN to do it all.
Remember..aside from the Russos being TWO PEOPLE directing..they also got two WRITERS to help em out in painting on those big ass canvases of infinity war and endgame.
Joss, as brilliant as he is..just got overwhelmed by it all...it showed in Age of Ultron. I really like that movie..but, it's nowhere near the first one..and it's understandable. The plate just got a whole lot bigger by AoU.
It WOULD take a TEAM of people to take on the much bigger stories, post AoU.
I wish Joss had done the Captain Marvel movie tho... He would've made that movie as one of the best SOLO mcu flicks..alongside iron man, Winter soldier & black panther.
Basically, for me at least:
Marvel: Heroes are made to be relatable(for the most part).
DC: Heroes are made to be admired.
Very well said
I feel like marvel really brings out the meaning of "teamwork". Like, even though thor is a literal god, captain america is the "leader". They always work together and really emphasize the fact that none of them are enough, alone. Meanwhile, dc is just like "Superman, kill him."
Superman are op in JL
Yeah because the ancient god not being able to one shot the bad guy makes total sense. Thor kinda sucks.
@@nono-ch8oy Thor is not a god in the MCU. Asgardians are a different species and humans just happen to call them gods. Even then, Thor is arguably the most powerful avenger, maybe second only to Captain Marvel, but both of them have limitations and can fail. If it wasn't this way it would be just like OP said, "Thor, kill him"
This is DCs main problem. Superman is just to powerful and simplistic. The plot always has to be some variation of bad guys using cryptonite to make Superman vulnerable.
if they add sentry then they their own superman but that guy is unstable as hulk
Basically the Avengers makes you care about the characters and invested in their stories. Justice League rushes to get to the next action scene.
Justice league is like a hero movie made by an alien who has only heard of superhero movies from people who do market testing.
Justice league never had a chance to develop, thanks to Geoff johns, he rushed everything Snyder did and ruined the whole cut. A reason why fisher spoke up about his toxic environmental production. Snyder's version will be so much better.
But the action wasnt even good, im trying to think of positives but in all aspects justice league was a bad movie, doesnt even need to be compared to avengers
@@EdGeLV gonna pin this post when ZS Cut JL comes out people will rave about it.
Wooow woooooo wooo wait hold on
I didn’t know they were SO similar because the difference in their impact is huge.
Agreed. I had absolutely no clue that there were so many similarities! And yes, now that I know that, the difference in how I feel about these two films becomes even more evident
Yea I was definitely more & more shocked when he kept going with the similarities lol!! The movies are so similar & so beyond completely different! I've always preferred Marvel over D.C. cause Spider-Man is my all time favorite but I do love some D.C. Characters & hope they do get back on the right course. It would be even better if both factions were equally great cause it's better for us. Rambling a lil sorry lol
FOR REAL IM SHOOK
@@thetruth72667 Mad respect to another Spider-man lover.
They’re being extremely selective lol. You can analyze any 2 movies from completely different genres and put them under a microscope and find things that are similar to shape the narrative they want to push. Ofc it helps that they’re both superhero movies but still, if you step back they’re very different.
My biggest problems with justice league and the DC movies in general is that they put Superman on a pedestal far above the other heroes. Superman is basically the savior of all, has only one weakness, Lois lane once again is the only one that can tame him when he wakes up, he easily beats Stepenwolf even tho he is supposed to be at max power . I always enjoyed Superman growing up but they have made him the central character of justice league. The Avengers did a much better job highlighting each individual characters strengths and weakness.
This! Superman needs to be rewritten to have STRICT limits to his strength again. With other characters that have similar powers but actual weaknesses (Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman) why have Superman other than he's DCs posterboy. I think the best thing DC can do at this point is show off other characters. Let's get a Zatanna and Constantine movie going that leads into a Batman WITHOUT Joker/2Face/Riddler.
Lol he's gonna get beat to shit by darkseid 😂 and Lois gets turned into a bacon 🥓
This is only because DC were more realistic (within the bounds of sueprhero mythology) about their heroes. If it doesn't make for a more enjoyable story, it's a problem with the audience.
@@museruse1 I believe it’s actually the opposite , especially within the comic Books . Marvel has explained each hero’s powers and how they were acquired , Many of DC heroes were born with their powers and the only explanation attributed was that they are aliens or gods / demigods.
@@golfgod6243 Yeah, this is true, many heroes in Marvel acquired their powers rather than be born with them, and it was actually quite fulfilling to follow that journey. In DC too, Batman, Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg, etc acquired their powers. Superman was born a normal kid on Krypton and was powerful as a result of being sent to another planet. Wonder woman trained, made mistakes and learnt before becoming 'The' Wonder Woman (a problem I have with 1984 is that they left out this arc, I agree) and characters like Aquaman and the Martian Manhunter were probably born with their powers.
I agree that something like Captain America's whole story arc with Bucky is stunningly beautiful, but similarly, the lore around The Joker and Two Face etc. in DC doesn't fall short of anything.
My favourite moment in the arguing scene is right after the engine gets blown.
Tony and steve both kind of fall over, and even though they were literally to the point of wanting to kill the other a second ago, steve still helps tony up and I just think that's beautiful
L
Steve: put on the suit (Let's go a few rounds)
3 sec later*
Steve: put on the suit! (I'm going to need your help)
It’s just Steve’s genuine good nature, this is why he was chosen by the Doc to receive the super serum since It would enhance every quality of him, and there’s no bad qualities about Steve.
Marvel: actually creating an understandable and a legendary timeline
DC: here's a bunch of heroes, make them fck around until superman comes and save the day
The fact that this is so accurate..
Joss Whedon made both the movies
@@masterdevoe2519
Joss Whedon came in to finish after Snyder left
The Studio then took over and you see the results
DC needs to be it’s own studio like marvel
Honestly, the only DCEU films I truly enjoyed were Wonderwoman, Shazam!, and Joker. I Thought Suicide Squad wasn't bad nor good; it was decent imo.
snyder cut is coming it will change
Omg I feel like an absolute jackass not realizing the striking similarities between these two films simply due to the fact one is fun, interesting, a joy to watch, and exciting, while the other is a powder-keg dumpster fire about to explode.
Marvel's pro's:
1. Prolific writers.
2. Vibrant and colorful storyline.
3. Clear timeline
4. Acting spontaneous. NOT forced.
5. Intriguing origin stories of superheroes.
6. Characters equipped with profound biography. Audiences can relate.
7. Unparalleled teamwork.
8. Storyline has a lot of substances and elements that make the audiences ask for more.
“No amount of money ever bought a second of time.”
-Tony Stark
"But what is grief, if not love persevering."
-Vision
"We never lose our demons, Mordo. We only learn to live above them."
-The Ancient One
“You’re right. I’m only human.”
-Captain Marvel
“You can’t destroy power. All you can do is make sure it is in right hands.”
-Hank Pym
“Given the chance and given your power, I’d bring my mom back. I know I would.”
-Monica
“You are my sadness and my hope. But mostly you are my love.”
-Wanda
"He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy."
-Yondu
“We won Mr. Stark. We won.”
-Spider-Man
“I don’t judge people on their worst mistakes.”
-Black Widow
"ahh junior, you're gonna break your old man's heart"
“Give this man a shield”
"I am Groot"
@RS - 04MR 838978 McClure PS you should’ve gone..f-for the h-hheaddddd
@RS - 04MR 838978 McClure PS “I don’t even know who you are..”
Avengers: 10 years prep time
JL: 10 months rushed time.
JL was probably trying to piggyback on the existing cartoons and movies made of the characters. What Marvel did was make solo movies for each of their big characters before avengers which all hinted at avengers then used those movies as backstory for the avengers instead of any pre-existing cartoons or movies. The movies before avengers were practically written to set up avengers while Justice League tried to use the old batman and superman movies asa backstory for Batman v Superman which was backstory for JL. Where Avengers planned for 10 years specifically with this goal in mind, JL tried to shortcut those ten years by using the last 50 years of existing material which wasn't written for the purpose of setting up the ensemble movie. That's why it seems like JL was rushed even though they had more pre-existing setup material, the material wasn't setting up anything...
@@anthonycannet1305 marvel also has 50 years of the same kind of material so they didn't have more set up
@@avisian8063 Yes marvel had the same amount of material to prepare for avengers but instead of using that as background for the movie, they used it as source material to make each of the solo films that were then used as background for the avengers movie. JL only made movies to set up JL for characters that didn't already have movies, and not even all of them at that. Not everyone has seen the old cartoons or read the comics so introducing the flash and cyborg to them now with no context could be confusing (When marvel did it, the 'new' characters had already made appearances in other films and didnt have any super powers, so even without solo films they werent new). Then they also included characters like batman and superman which, aside from batman v superman, didn't get new movies to set up for JL. They only made solo films for some of the characters (Wonder Woman and Aquaman) when they should've made at least one movie for each of the characters. That would've set up the audience to recognize the actors, understand their powers, and already know their backstory before the movie started. Instead of establishing backstory for half the characters at the start of the film, they could've made references to them like in avengers.
TL;DR Yes justice league was rushed but marvel didn't rely entirely on their older material for the ensemble film, they made solo films to prep the audience while JL assumed teyh already knew things
@@anthonycannet1305 I don't really follow your train of thought tbh.
Seemed you were saying they weren't rushed, but actually you are saying they were rushed.
Yeah, DC seems to just assume people know their characters and has done very little to set them up. I agree.
@@avisian8063 Im explaining the difference between marvel and DC to highlight the reasons the JL movie feels rushed compared to Avengers
This is literally "hey can i copy your homework"
"sure but dont make is obvious you copied"
spot on man
Joss Whedon copied himself
and still fail
aka me
That "is" troubles me. Oh god, I feel old
That was literally the smoothest transition into a commercial I've ever seen. You actually got me to watch like the first 10 seconds of it before fast forwarding. Props.
Why Avengers Worked and Justice League Didn’t
ANSWER: Avengers is about about 20 different movies that took time to develop characters. whereas Justice League was a dark dreary cluster fuck with no solid foundation that was rushed to catch up with 12 yrs worth of Avengers movies
Was Katty Perry your math teacher in school? Because your numbers don't add up. When The Avengers came out, there were five movies preceeding it, one of which was a box office failure and starred a completely different actor in the role that was recast for The Avengers. And I also fail to see where exactly Justice League was "dark and dreary". It was the complete opposite of that. It was family-friendly as family-friendly PG-13 can get.
@@antona.1327 well i mean they were just starting out so those 5 movies wouldnt be golden at first
and also i thought only the Incredible hulk movie was bad?
i mean Iron man 1 was good at least right?
You are so right I couldn't have said it better myself DC cannot make up its mind on how many Batmans they have, they have yet to tie together the jokers its a big waste of time
@@antona.1327 lamo 1 multiple character as opposed to how many Batman's do they have again and Jokers and they have yet to make sense out of all of them
When Avengers came out there were... 5 movies?? When Justice League came out there were... 3? 4?? Almost the same number.
Me looking at the thumbnail.
Thinking "I can't even remember the main villain in Justice league"
Yeah! Joss is awsome!
Oh yeah!! When I was reading your comment it got me confused too lol or I just have bad memory XD
Stepphenwolf was main villain in Justice League.
Wait who's the villain?
I don't mean to laugh but that's so sad😂😂😂😂
Whedon wasnt hired to re-write or replace a director on The Avengers. It was his movie from day one genius.
this dude just wrote justice league better than the actual movie, in 15 minutes
I NEED TO SEE THIS VERSION!!!
literally his idea immediately made me emotional and i havent seen a SINGLE DC movie. not one. its both embarrassing for the filmmakers that as a whole production they couldnt come up with better but like on the other hand, hire this man?????
actually he did it in just 5mins and 25secs!!! : ) His awesome "rewrite" starts right at the 12min mark - so hello peeps @ScreenCrush ...send Ryan to Hollywood asap to hook up with any and all WarnerBros directors ; )
Less than that. Like 3 min. Lol.
I bet he'd thought about it for a long time though, and not just 15 minutes. Both movies came out years ago after all.
I agree with every point made about how marvel humanized the "superhuman" characters and DC didn't. Another noteworthy point is the evident chemistry between the actors in Marvel that is lacking in DC.
Yeah Marvel went to great lengths to make sure they chose the right directors and cast the right actors.
This is why I like Marvel better then DC. Marvel's most popular heros are regular humans given great power and great resposibility. DC heros (besides the bat themed one) are mainly aliens or nonhuman beings that protect earth.
I do like Doom Patrol from DC that focus more on human heros.
@@kaberas.coldvoid4845 it show you know next to nothing about fan favourites in dc as apart from aquamarine, superman , wonder woman and supergirl fout of the top 10 the rest are all human
@@nohalorequired8652 the Marvel casting directors are the best in the business
@@kaberas.coldvoid4845 ¿Really? Doom Patrol is a team of weirdos.
"We're going to lose but we're going to fight anyway" reminds me of that quarrel in Avengers AoU:
"How are we gonna fight it?"
"Together"
"We'll lose"
"We'll do that together too"
One of the best scenes in the movie
Then In Endgame:
"I Said We'd Lose, You Said We'll Do That Together Too."
"Well Guess What Cap? We Lost. And You Were'nt There."
@@aeliqvr i was sad that the comment ended there but it felt nice as i saw your comment xD thanks for completing it
@@LenaMuNZ yw!
@@aeliqvr I mean iron Man litterely flew an alien ship into space. Did he think cap would follow him?
*The Schneider Cut literally FIXES ALL OF THESE COMPLAINTS* 😂🤦♀️
Avengers : We do this together
Justice league : We need Superman
Oh yeah
I feel like you're only half right there. The Avengers do have a Superman equivalent, Disney just did a good job of nerfing him so that the other Avengers get some screen time
Snyder cut: we do this together
I loved the Avengers but they were clear that they "had a Hulk". Hulk was considered as important as Superman.
Kevin Moore no they’re referring to captain marvel. the hulk is not in any way a superman figure for marvel
DC: hey, can I copy your homework?
Marvel: Sure but don't make it too obvious
the similarities are because joss whedon copied himself
Ummm marvel copied lots of stuff frm DC n m talking about comics
@@mayanksaxena01 absolutely true, they copy each other so often that it's hard to keep up. but iirc, Thanos was just the diet cola version of darkseid right?
@@Knightfall8 😂😂 tbh the storyline of DC is way better watch any animated movie of DC you will get find stories more interesting then marvel
@@mayanksaxena01 i prefer star trek over both marvel and dc
That scene where the Avengers are arguing in the presence of the sceptre seems very similar to the scene in The Fellowship of The Ring where they are arguing in the council at Rivendale about the One Ring.
Eventually, everyone rips off Lord of the Rings.
@@danlorett2184 LMAO
@@camilachavez9320 One FILM to rule them all
The One Ring is an archetypal symbol representing power without social constraint. It's a pastiche of the Ring of Gyges, which Plato used specifically to talk about the nature of morality and the corrupting influence of power.
And that's why both movies succeed while JL flopped
Marvel always leaves Easter eggs that you don't realize are there until almost 4 movies later. Which quite honestly makes it so I want and need to see each movie more than once. They have so many layers it's mind boggling. They plan ahead. It's not just make 1 movie at a time. Its art and complex
The main concept that explains why Avengers worked and Justice League didn't, is that all of the Avengers had previously been introduced and most of them already had solo movies. Whereas Justice League took it upon itself to introduce half the cast's personality and capabilities within the movie.
I agree 100%
This is such a shallow point. It doesnt matter who got a movie first. It matters if the movie is actually good. They only introduced 3 of the characters, not all six. Nothing wrong with half
@@ndo533 The point wasn't the half. The point was the movie had to introduce us to Aquaman, Flash and Cyborg before they could do anything, using up a lot of run time that could have instead contributed to the main plot.
@@joshuaharmon6684 but gotg did it in just 1 movie, the point of of comment isn't valid
@@kukuhindustanigamer3663 You liken Guardians of the Galaxy to Justice League and Avengers? (Which is not only Marvel but also clearly introduced only brand new characters instead of blending new and old while supposed to be focusing on a larger plot)
This isn't intended to be an argument. There are many reasons why Justice League wasn't as successful as Avengers. If you don't agree with what I consider "the main reason", that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone.
man, you hit it right on the nose. none of the dc movies have made me feel invested in the characters or their stories. the heroes are only heroes - theyre not human. but marvel has always made their characters feel relatable and human. theyre just like us, and it has made the audience /that/ much more invested in them.
Imo the batman and superman movies always show the impact their superhero life has on their 'normal' life but the JL movies just don't.
Sorry but I"am a not a stupid blonde Thor.
Most popular characters in Marvel aren't human. Majority of marvels heros aren't human , they're as human as Dc characters
@@RoxDZoro youre missing the point buddy. marvel heroes FEEL human. they have human flaws, human characteristics, human jokes, human thought processes, human day-to-day problems. the audience can empathize with them more bc they feel much more real.
@@CHRYSALISM and they are the cause of their own problems. Iron Man creates his enemies. Thor is a dick who made Loki resentful. Hulk made himself and was literally a monster. CA is the only one who didn’t. I love the movies because they are fun but they are as deep as a dried up kiddie pool.
To this day, that argument scene in Avengers makes me squirm. It just makes the audience feel so uncomfortable, like you’re in the middle of the tension
Yes but it gave the Avengers more substance. You can see their motivation, their egos, their anger. With the Justice League, nothing matters until Superman shows up, since the other heroes might as well be member of a barbershop quartet for all the success they had on their own.
That means it worked. You should be uncomfortable.
My favourite part was when Bruce Banner starts getting a little angry and Nick Fury says "YOU need to calm down" and you can really see that he's scared. That tension is palpable.
I will take it! ...I will take the ring to Mordor.
@@trankia1224: You have my sword. And you have my bow! And MY axe.
Its hard to be different when both companies have spent decades ripping off each others heroes and villains.
The problem is there was no set up for JL. They wanted to rush a movie to "compete with Avengers" instead of taking the time and doing the work of several preceding movies to set up the universe. Had we had several set up movies for the DC characters that led up to JL like we did with Avengers, JL would have worked. Blame greed, envy, shortsightedness and impatience.
Also having superman completely stomp the entire team and beat steppenwolf single handedly removed any climax or excitement from the film. Superman needs to be tone down. Power rangers did something similar by having tommy be the glory hog and most powerful of the group and it resulted in the series tanking in ratings.
Tell me...why should DC do the same like Marvel did..?? Like...bla bla solo movies before big team up movie bla bla bla...?? The thing is..people wanted Marvel 2.0 : The DC version...they didn't want the DC universe. Let DC do it their own way and be open to it.. I'm so happy we didn't get a copy of the MCU with the whole solo movie stuff..pleaasee...
@@LongjoyNl DC way is having superman be a glory hog while the rest of the team fight grunts.
@@magdalenecastillo2905 Supes is indeed the hardest hitter of the team...can't deny that fact. Did you react that same way when watching Justice League War..??
@@LongjoyNl Justice league war was handled better since each member played a part and darkseid wasn't one shotted like steppenwolf was by superman. the final battle of JL film, the threat could have been stopped by superman alone (without breaking a sweat) with cyborg assist. Thus, removing any tension/fun or suspense to the film. This is how marvel wins and DC fails. Marvel does not make the other members of the team look like crap to prop up one hero even though there are clear differences in their power level. For example. while thor is arguably the heavy hitter on avengers they did not make iron man look like a complete pansy in their battle.
"Put on the suit"
"Yep"
that scene makes me laugh everytime
Crazy to think that it took decades of MCU for that line to works...
@@nabieladrian wat
Mcu: we are going to take 10 years to make a good universe.
DC: 3 years take it or leave it
I mean, the films he compares are both roughly 4 years after the first movie in the series, Iron Man to Avengers is like just over 4 years by a few days, Man of Steel to Justice League is roughly 4,5 years
the difference is, in Iron Mn they tried to put so much lore and world building that they had hooks for later movies that would also work for other characters, the Incredible Hulk did the same, Iron Man 2, Thor and Captain America latched onto those hooks and placed new ones, they referenced back to each other
we also had seen everyone except Maria Hill, the Other (and the Chitauri), and the World Security Council prior to the Avengers, so there was no big thing of "who is this and what can they do?", I mean, I guess we got a new Bruce Banner, but that's all
Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau took a risk in Iron Man and it paid off
for JL there were 2 individual movies and Batman V Superman, there was no build at all, even Wonder Woman didn't build towards her appearance in BvS, there is no united world, every movie can be seen alone and not miss anything
What Marvel did really well in the early stages was making their movies something you could understand and enjoy without having seen the others, but also with subtle hints that were exciting if you had (I.E Phil Coulson's involvement).
Iron Man, if not a superhero movie, would be a cool war film-esc science fiction movie about a guy who builds a robot suit of armor in a cave with scraps and then decides to use his second chance at life fixing his mistakes with a lot of action and futuristic technology.
Captain America TFA, if not a superhero film, would be a more traditional sci-fi story set in WWII about an underdog who gets turned into a powerful super soldier and has to fight an evil counterpart super soldier.
Thor is already the most unique from a typical superhero movie and had it not been made by Marvel, it probably wouldn't be considered one. The plot feels like if it was animated, it would be something Disney, Pixar, or possibly DreamWorks might make. It's a fun fantasy movie about alien versions of the Norse gods (which is already quite a mix of genres without the rest of the MCU) in which one of them gets turned mortal and sent to Earth where he has to react to the modern world and prove himself worthy before regaining his powers.
Even the Avengers I was able to follow despite not having seen any of the films that came before it. DC on the other hand seems to require you to have seen Man of Steel and BvS for Justice League to make sense. I can't really say that for sure as I had seen most of them before JL, but if their movies don't stand on their own two feet without the rest of the DCEU, it feels less like a connected universe and more like one big, long series.
More like DCEU. DC has great universe in their animation movies and we call it DCAMU. Flashpoint Paradox is the greatest superhero movie, imo better than any MCU movies. Too bad people don't care about animation.
😂😂😂😂 so true
@@Mulukan57 okay but nobody cares
I agree with what you’re saying. Wow! I was thinking the exact same thing you were saying when I saw the justice league movie. All plot, no story. No drama. And that’s what you go to see a movie for his drama
The way he analyzes these movies made me realize I am too stupid to notice any of this stuff
I share the same feeling. Even in comments, people are placing good theories.
In the words of the great Harry S. Plinkett, “Now you might notta noticed... *but your brain did*”
Don't feel bad! The stories are designed from a template. Just cause the template is the same, doesn't mean the content has to be. Some films can be made from gold, others from pewter. The important thing is that you enjoyed them and had fun discussing them with others!
Well. It takes studying writing. I am developing a tv series ideas (for fun and who knows what may come from that) and I studied how to make it and takes a lot on construction piece by piece. You are lucky, because after studying the industry and understanding the writing I have never watched a series or a movie the same way. 😂
Try rewatching movies after youve kinda forgotten them, keeping always an eye out for hints in the setting and dialogue. I find it helpful to already know the major plot lines because that way i have time to gravitate towards the smaller things that are shown.
Are we just gonna ignore the fact that he looked for justice league on disney plus?
nah he just wanted to sneak in the VPN promo
he spelled thor wrong and said Jl is owned by disney
lol
And the fact that he wanted to fly to the UK over the pacific ocean lol (7:49)
When we were watching JL in the cinema, all we thought was just get superman in there and it's done. the other heroes are not needed. When superman entered the final scene and just smashed the villain like nothing and nothing it is, no stakes no emotion all they need is display the word Fin. Meanwhile, Avengers is like they cannot win without the other. each has a task they have to make. Hawk marks target and positions, BW support, Cap still rescues people amidst the turmoil, Hulk smashes while Thor supports him with lightning. Ironman distracts the enemy until finally, he met with the enemy leader face to face. 1 Team faces Loki another team faces the tesseract closing the portal and another team general evacuation and public defense.
Absolutely.
Marvel specifically makes challenges for each character, my favorite examples of this is endgame, where almost every "minor" character gets a moment to shine
You can see the difference
Also guardians of the galaxy are so weak but they still face with villains stronger than the avengers face
I hate Superman. He is so OP
You forgot one similarity: an important person near the heroes dies, killed by the main bad guy in person: Cyborg´s dad vs Phil Coulson.
I feel DC would've been successful if they took their time creating the films. Marvel had a decade of character developments. That's why the deaths of Endgame and Infinity War impacted a lot of Marvel fans or even casual fans. DC was a bit rushed and wanted to catch up with the hype as well. Now that the Snyder cut is out, I believe DC can have an opportunity to continue making these movies. Overall, both franchises created our childhood.
Marvel was purchased by Disney which gave them Infinite Money and Infinite Resources and Infinite time to make good movies.
All DC movies are funded by at least 2 up to 5 different Companies because Warner Bros isn’t big enough to fund movies like Disney can.
Because of this fact, DC movies end up coming out like shit because what we don’t see are the ceaseless and never ending arguments taking place behind the scenes with those 2-5 different Companies who all funded millions of dollars into this movie, and thus feel they should have **Their** movie created over what the other companies desire.
This leads to multiple Directors being hired for each company, different producers and cameramen constantly flowing in and out of positions, which ends with them essentially creating 2-5 entirely separate movies that they have to piece together so that “All companies have a stake and claim to money from it.”
what decade? The interval between first Iron man and the Avengers is only 4 years
Yeah. At the beginning of marvel, they sat down and planned the main points of the entire timeline.
@@hexmaster6267 2008 was when iron man 1 released.
End game came out 11 years later in 2019.
That’s a full decade of character development right there.
@@hexmaster6267 You need to catch up bud😂 there’s 20 movies out there
I agree with Doug. Doug articulated his points perfectly with precise, sharp and clean summary of his point.
atleast someone who says something about doug
YES
We love Doug. Doug is the best. Doug is my dad.
same bro
There were a couple of moments I wasn't totally in agreement with Doug, but I have to admit, his clear reasoning, logic and and rationale prevailed.
The camera angle in AVENGER movies are much appealing then JUSTICE LEAGUE .
true justices league feels like they just set the camera in one place then film it. makes it weird but i still like the movie
and the freaking lighting! Jesus DC movies are so visibly dark that it's almost impossible to see everything
@@thomyorkesrighteye -- Thank you! That was the most striking distinction for me between the scenes. Fancy camera work is nice, but being able to see the characters' expressions? Priceless.
The camera angle in justice league were mostly diana's ass shot.
I bet they wanted to do evil superman, but some suits said "no, superman good guy" and they had to follow orders
Wow I can't believe I never realized how important the lab scene is
Steve to Tony: You're not the guy who make sacrifice plays
Avengers Endgame: Hohohoho!
Well, at the time, he wasn't. He had a LOT of growing to do, as a person, in between those movies!
@@kedolan4992 yep he almost made the sacrifice in Avengers but in Age of ulltron Pietro Sacrafices himself when Tony fucks up
Tony to Steve: Everything special about you came out of a bottle
Avengers Endgame: Mjolnir go whoooossh!!!!
In that same movie he took the missle into the portal, that was a possible 1 way trip SACRIFICE
@@kedolan4992 Yup, that’s called character development!
simple, the MCU was allowed to grow slowly with it's audience. you don't just drop three big events in one movie and expect the audience to follow.
rEaR vIeW fr
blame for wb/dc for wanting avengers level profits without any of the work/dedication/patience. also, blame snyder for not realizing how gargauntuan of a task it was for any one person (let alone, a director) and choosing to go through with it instead of pushing to have more set up.
Another one with the same stupid argument.
That ain't a Standard for Storytelling.
A writer can tell the story the way he wants since he is the author.
He can drop "3 to 4 to 5 big events" whatever he wants IF it fits with what he is telling.
By your logic every movie needs to build up his audience before THE movie with each individual character that there is.
You see how pointless that argument is?
@@ericalexcantero8249 ok ill bite.
most movies dont usually have 6 lead characters in a single movie.
while you are correct that isnt a standard for story telling, the fact is the general movie audience isnt familiar with half of this movie's justice league team. sure, they may recognize flash or aquaman but could they tell me their basic origin stories or even their alter ego names without looking it up or someone helping them out? im sure you personally can but the vast majority of them can NOT and thats not even including cyborg. releasing multiple movies prior to the big team up would have given audience much more familiarity with these characters and you wouldnt have to spend so much of the big team up movie building them up and instead focus on the plot itself. introducing those 3 in a single scene from one previous movie, showing off their abilities in videos and not even interacting with the big 3 isnt just lazy and rushed, its boring.
at this point, you might be thinking "marvel didnt release a black widow movie or a hawkeye movie before avengers 1." while this is true as well, black widow did have a significant part in both story importance and screen time in iron man 2. while hawkeye only had a small cameo in thor 1 and got the short end of the 6 in terms of prior exposure, he was built up during the events of avengers 1 vs justice league having to build up 3. maybe if flash had more than a single cameo in suicide squad, aquaman had a significant part in wonder woman and cyborg in man of steel but none of that ever happened.
now, you might also be thinking, "blame wb/dc for rushing things. snyder was just doing the job he was hired on for." while true again, hes not some rookie director making a film about original characters for sundance. hes using THE most recognizable superheroes in the world and putting them alongside 3 others who are nowhere NEAR their level and releasing that movie worldwide, on top of constant worldwide advertisement. expecting the general audience to do prior research such as reading comic books, watching animated movies or the arrowverse shows in order to offset that giant differential and understand a movie isnt a standard for story telling either.
@@Queentiffytime where and how did you get captain marvel into this? the discussion was about how to best introduce the various team members in avengers 1 vs justice league to the general public. besides, captain marvel did its job and introducing people to her in preparation for endgame. i will agree that story and writing do make a significant difference and that snyder cant do either properly. maybe the guy should just stick to cinematogarphy instead.
I don’t think I’ve seen a more seamless ad transition, nor a more compelling reason to leave a comment. This man has TH-cam figured out.
A++
I think my biggest issue with Justice League is that the moment they get Superman it's over and he just destroys Steppenwolf
I love it🔥🔥🔥 Although I wish Superman was a bit more powerful, Also Wonder Woman was Nerf She was supposed to be on par with Superman In the comics But they nerf Her for some reason.
@@nightmare_1874 superman is yet too poweful, he's way too strong, the battles are not interesting with him
@@antogno4625 that’s the point…because the reliance on his “strength” will be the downfall of the team…did you not watch Snyder’s’ Cut?
@@khanyi8512 I have watched it
@@nightmare_1874 I’m more into Marvel than DC but, thanks for reminding me of that. I did think it was weird watching Wonder Woman get her ass beat so easily by lesser characters because to my knowledge, she is supposed to be somewhat on Superman’s level…?
The reason JL didn’t resonate with the audiences is simple, really. How am I supposed to relate to a god, or a goddes, or a billionaire? Because that’s all they are. They have no substance, and they are too overpowered. I don’t really care about them. Now, Tony Stark is also a billionaire, but his struggles and his personality make him likable. I care whether he succeeds, and i care whether he lives or dies. And I actually freaking cried when he died, because by that point he feels real, so his death feels like the loss of a friend.
Thor is also a god, and had the same problems his DC counterparts have, but they managed to humanize him in both Ragnarok and Endgame. Taika’s version of Thor in Ragnarok is absolutely brilliant, it made me love this character so much more.
This works for every Marvel superhero. Like, Caps my favorite now, after how brilliantly written Winter Soldier and Civil War were.
They need to give these incredibly overpowered superheroes human struggles, and the movies are gonna be so much better.
Oh now DC will go and give all of them meth addiction and probably abusive parents in the flashback. Maybe kill-off a lover for good measure. Gotta be gritty and dark and oversaturated.
@Gus McCrae the only thing you mentioned that wouldn't make sense is Batman being black, i fail to see the issue with the other two...
The way Justice league showed the movie was that if superman was alive then that bad alien( I don't remember his corny ass name) wouldn't even had dare come to earth.
Plus I think that Captain Marvel was marvel worst movie and a better actor could have been casted as Captain Marvel.
Shazam was pretty good but the villains in DC are way too unbelievable.
Just look at mosquito man in Aquaman movie
I completely agree with everything you wrote, you can literally watch all the marvel characters grow through the years and figure out their powers. DC just revamps all their hero’s
The Avengers was carefully planned in advance with multiple individual movies to set up the group. A lot of groundwork was laid. Nearly all the characters were introduced prior.
The DCU was rushed. Half the Justice League was introduced in the movie (Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman). Of the remaining 3, Superman was the only character introduced into the DCU with a solo film (Batman and Wonder Woman being introduced in BvS), with Wonder Woman having a solo film between BvS and JL.
Even more than that, the Avengers starts with six people: Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Thor. Four of these people need some serious explanation, each getting their own movie, and two not so much - IM2 was enough to give us Widow's deal, and Hawkeye's few scenes in Thor were similarly pretty adequate. Five steps leading into the teamup, four and a half if you discount Hulk's turn being removed from the MCU.
Meanwhile, DC gets a grand total of three movies before they rush in, and they waste two of them on reintroducing characters who've been in the public eye for decades - not to mention killing one of them. So three weird-ass metahumans need time in this movie to show who they are and what they do, in addition to resurrecting Superman. Justice League got rushed, and as a consequence has to be super-long or not have time for an actual plot.
So basically Marvel is all about teamwork and DC is just... “come here Superman we need to rely on just you”. That’s pretty sad
warner bros* the thing that a lot of people forget is that the problem isnt dc and its characters, its the people handling the characters: warner bros.
Watch Snyder cut, cyborg and flash are much more important, I mean black widow and Hawkeye are pretty useless as well in 1st avengers
@@GauravYadav-bf7qj don't forget that Black Widow Was the one Who Closed the Portal Nd Hawkeye Sent Out Instructions nd Strategies
@@-GMKirankumar lol anyone could have done that, she was pretty useless, same like Aquaman in JL
@@GauravYadav-bf7qj yea But She Choose to do it
6:26 showcases an INCREDIBLE acting moment from Mark. that little head tilt/stutter? that's him *trying* to calm down. say what he needs to say as Bruce, not the big guy. his neck even jolts the way it does when he's transforming. it's little moments like this, acting gems, that make the characters so real
I REALLY like Mark Ruffalo as a Hulk. He's an incredible actor and he as Bruce gives off that vibe of the scientist who doesn't really want to harm anyone and hates Hulk inside him and doesn't want to use him. He as Bruce feels like fluff or teddy bear, just a really smart teddy bear, and I love it because you can see why he's so different from other Avengers but part of them at the same time and why Natasha fell in love with him
Marvel: Builds a universe slowly over the course of a couple of decades
DC: throws away all its previous films and does new origin stories every few years because it still makes money
I think Justice League is what happens when the studio hires a director to make Beef Wellington, and then at the last half hour kicks the chef out and tells a new chef to make it into chocolate cake.
pretty much what happened
Is this refference to F.R.I.E.N.D.S?
Love your analogy!
You glossed over the part where the first chef alienates two-thirds of the potential customers because he refuses to cook the beef wellington at any temp other than rare/borderline Raw cuz that's how HE likes his meat...
@@JeremyBearimy913 It’s his vision…
One villain had a personality
The other didn't...
More than that. Loki is entertaining, witty, stylish, and cunning. His plan is smart, using the heroes against each other, and if not for a few complicating factors like Black Widow he would have succeeded in unleashing the hulk and destroying the helicarrier and both the Avengers and SHIELD'S HQ in one fell swoop. And he did most of it from a prison cell, which he intended to be in after causing a massive distraction while his team covertly picked up what he needed.
Loki isn't a physical threat to most of the heroes individually, let alone together. He's instead a brilliant intellectual threat and manipulator. As a bonus, we already know him from Thor and understand him to be a serious threat from his antics in that movie.
Steppenwolf is not interesting. He's a brute villain world ending threat coming up against a team who have already in their solo outings defeated Zod (a world ending physical threat) and Ares (a master manipulator and world ending physical threat) and Doomsday (A world ending physical threat). He is arguably less of a physical threat than any of these three, with two being equal to Superman and the third being the literal god of war. The army of flunkies are the only real reason why most of these heroes even have anything to do.
His plan is unsubtle and boring. Smash Amazons, Acquire Cube. Smash Atlanteans, Acquire Cube. Smash Humans, Acquire Cube. Smash Cubes together, win. That's a plan that Hulk could have come up with. Not Banner, Hulk.
@@FuelDropforthewin wow
Yeah, and a weak one at that. While Loki is better by default, because he's played by an actual actor (albeit, wearing a goofy, fake-looking cosplay costume), he's still a weak villain in on himself because he serves no other purpose than to hunt the McGuffin and then use it to justify an entire army of CG alien monkeys crawling from their woodwork in space and kicking off an overblown CG finale with mindless kabooms and lazy jokes. He really serves no plot purpose or threat once the Chitauri come out. That's why his final stand is so comically bad - when he gets beaten like a doll by Hulk. Corny character.
@@antona.1327 it's already established that Loki is a mastermind, not a muscle. It's like saying Littlefinger is useless because he's not fighting during wars.
Both of them had an unsatisfying comeuppance, but their impact to their respective franchises shouldn't be ignored
@@antona.1327 yea but if that’s the case then every super hero movie end fight sense is bad because it’s all a big cgi show down, like Batman v Superman with its big monster vs Superman finale
Tony Stark: Shakespeare in the park, doth mother know you weareth her drapes, one of my favourite lines.
"Get lost Squidward" lol
@@siddharth_0771 Lmfao forgot about that
Superman is never evil in this film. He is just primal. All confusing emotions and jumbled memories.
Was Superman really "evil" when he came back or was he confused and pissed?
Confused and pissed, he snapped out if it eventually and regained his conscience
Wasn't the backup plan also Lois? Which they definitely used to snap him out of it? Seeing Henry Cavill actually play Superman instead of whatever he was playing in the two other movies were definitely the highlight for me in this movie.
2 one
They should have just said Martha 🤣🤣
he was pissed that they woke him up, superman wasn’t dead, he was asleep because he needed a rest from the incident in batman vs superman
What makes the avengers better they didn’t use poor cgi to get rid of Chris evans beard in the post credits scene
Wow I didn't noticed that lol
All Marvel had cheesy CGI. In fact, the dark, gritty tone in Endgame felt and looked like a day time soap opera. This is why Disney/Marvel took the safe route, and made typical American action cinema, with bad jokes, and pretty colors, that way dumb people like The Rookie here, would eat it up. It's actually a trend to like Marvel. Reminds me of a cult of stupid.
@@theminotaur8015 yeah, the mcu sucks
@@Yono_A1533 why cant people just enjoy movies for being good movies? Why do we have to say the MCU sucks and DC sucks. Cant we just acknowledge they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
@@denhamfree1871 i love Marvel and DC, and i used to be an mcu fan, but the movies has became so formulaic and cheesy that i can't enjoy them anymore. But yeah i was too hard, the mcu doesn't sucks but for now i'm not interested in any mcu movie except for doctor strange 2 and spiderman 3.
different, avengers' hulk looks very realistic and feel like he's there. justice league couldn't get rid of a mustache
It's actually apples and oranges. Even though it entails a TON of hard work and many, many details, making The Hulk believable is actually much less difficult than erasing a mustache. It sounds ridiculous, but hear me out. Hulk is a big green dude unlike anything that exists on this world. You accept it because it is realistic enough that you buy Hulk being there, but your mind knows it's looking at a drawing so it doesn't really have a problem with what it's seeing. It's a whole other matter with the face. You know who Henry Cavill is, you know what he looks like, and you DEFINITELY know what a face should look like and how it should move. Trouble is, your mind is seeing something close enough to the real deal, but there's something wrong, something sticking out, bad enough that it keeps thinking "What the hell's wrong with Henry Cavil's mouth?". That's not to say a better job couldn't have been made....but if you stick an animated upper lip on top of a familiar face, chances are your mind will know it's looking at something unnatural and call it out.
I'd say Avengers gets away with it because it doesn't look realistic. Even for colorful cinematography they over-saturate and over-light scenes which gives it a very comic book feel. Hulk doesn't feel out of place because he's as colorful as everything else. Designers first thought you would have to tone down and/or wash out the colors in order to make a comic book film feel realistic but Avengers proved that even a colorful composition can look perfectly fine on the big screen. Just look at previous comic book films prior like Blade, X-Men, Spiderman, earlier Hulk films, hell even the MCU Captain America film, all of the colors were washed out and costumes made to look gritty and "realistic". Compare Cap's first suit to the one he wears in Avengers, it's much more vibrant and less busy.
Hulk looks like he's there not because he looks realistic, not because he blends in, but everything blends in with the visual style.
@@marianoyuba3736 I mean the moustache removal cost over a million dollars. Some dude did it better on his own later on.
@Fashion Forward Accessories, Crystal Dowdy superman is a RIP off of jesus lol. Story matters. Superman>jesus
BINGO
The Snyder cut redeemed Justice League in many ways. Still can't stand side by side with the Avengers, but I really enjoyed the Snyder cut version. It made Flash and Cyborg much more relevant than they were in the theatrical release. In that version they were pointless.
The main issue that NO DIRECTOR OR WRITER will EVER overcome is this: Marvel is an ensemble group and works well together with any of the pieces- you can mix-n-match any of them and come up with a great story line. Justice League is a disparate mix of single action performers who do not work well together. It’s not the actors fault- it’s the characters. Seriously... does Superman actually need anyone to work with??!! With all of Wonder Woman’s new powers that she’s NEVER had before, she is now Superman’s equal in every way. Batman doesn’t need Robin in any way except to groom him as his successor. Flash doesn’t need anyone, but he CAN be a nice second. Aquaman works in a different realm and shouldn’t even be with this group (Green Lantern should be his replacement). Cyborg is the truly interesting character as he is a fairly new development from the animated series and should get a stand alone film that can truly explore who he is and why he exists. But mixing any of these characters together feels forced and stilted. It always will be because they were created to be ALONE, not as a team. Marvel excels in this area and always will. JMHO
You are delusional enough to compare Wonder Woman to Superman
Ironic u said all that..cuz JLA was there before the Avengers (in the comic books).
It's not that the DC characters weren't made to be in a group together...or they COULDN'T be worked into a single team...
No. The key is in the writing.
I mean...just look at all the Justice league comics..and animated series...they had worked really well..thus, JL is way more well known and liked than avengers BEFORE the movies ever came out.
A Justice League movie could've as easily worked as the Avengers..IF wb didn't half-assedly setting em up..hired the RIGHT person/people to be in charge of em..and actually knew and respected the sources it came from.
@@themadafaka6839 And what does Jla existing before have to do with anything? And yes they liked the Jla series bc it was animated something you could watch instead of read but when Marvel was created that was it for dc, DC just died bc ppl started paying less attention to it than Marvel and when Marvle started producing movies that was over for DC
@@deionalbert8467 dc didn't die when marvel showed up.
Dc never went bankrupt, marvel did.
But..yeah, once iron man..then Avengers movies did their thing...game over for the dc brand..but more due to comic books as an industry is close to dying..which is a shame. And I hope it won't die. Ever.
@@themadafaka6839 I never said dc went bankrupt it’s like they weren’t so good and nobody really payed much attention them anymore
At the beginning, when you’re listing all the similarities, the one thing DC doesn’t have is a Hawkeye so, therefore, he is what makes the difference and makes Avengers work! Honestly though, I’m only kind of joking. Marvel allows heroes to be made from anyone, even a human who just happens to be really, really good with a bow and arrow, versus the DC characters who all seem to need to be these extraordinarily overpowered beings.
arrowerse exists seperately....and in comics.....
batman is human...i mean i am predominantly marvel guy but hav u rfacts straight
@@killermakd2015 that’s fair, but if you think about Batman, essentially the DCEU’s Iron Man, as being the “low powered” one of the group, it still makes my point that they don’t have anyone as “ordinary” as Hawkeye and Black Widow.
@@srayj that's the whole point, no direct analogy can be set. Where would u put dr strange and spiderman in current dceu then? Batsies is usually compared with Tony but it ain't accurate at all!! There s gonna be a moon knight fr ok m mcu prolly....that can be still used.!!
@@killermakd2015 that’s literally iron man cause he uses technology but Hawkeye just uses bow and arrows and all these heroes have their shine even the guardians of the galaxy who have a bit above human strength and they are able to defeat people that destroy entire planets marvel did it the hard way and made it really difficult to make all characters shine but is something they build up
I think the first part of your sentence summed it up perfectly… The Avengers is a movie about people. That’s why it’s better full stop.
*Simple :* Marvel have relatable characters and storyline. They makes a small character memorable.
For eg : When heroes were introduced to each other in Avengers, we can feel the awkwardness between them which makes it more real or the teen romance between Peter and MJ in FFH. Also we even cried for a tree in GOTG whom we were newly introduced.
Marvel made people cry fr an ant, a tree, a space pirate, a sex doll, & many others
DCEU couldn't make people shed tears even fr the fucking Superman
2008 Abomination had more character & personality than 2016 Doomsday, who ws used just as the generic CGI monster fr a big climax fight (they repeated same mistake with WW)
Basically their mistake ws thinking that MCU became so big bcoz it had many superheroes & big CGI fights, & they'll get same success by repeating the formula
Another major reason is that MCU has a team of nerds, comic book buffs who know the material & significance of characters...they are connected to their stories
DCEU ws all run by people who make movies...no connection whatsoever...to them these characters were just IPs
Because Marvel started their own studios and made an effort to own complete control of their storytelling on the big screen. That’s what made the difference. No dickhead studios exec’s calling the shots.
No one:
Literally no one :
This guy : *searches justice league on disney plus*
Lmao
(Face palm)
It was just a way to plug NordVPN I don’t think someone is actually that dumb
Hehe😂
Dwight Schrute well hello there dwight. Long time know see
"We're going to lose, but we're going to fight anyways" is straight out of LotR: Return of the King.
MARVEL turned its not-so-famous characters into a successful and famous franchise, but DC could not make a good film with characters who were very famous before the film, the difference is this.
Exactly, this. Thor, Iron-Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye? Really? Total no names, the only reason they used them is cause they weren't popular enough in the comics for other studios to be interested in buying the rights for before they started the MCU. The only one with any sway before this was Hulk!
@@artemi7
WUT 🤨
@@tonydanatop4912 I'm saying none of the people they used in the MCU started off being all that popular in the comics. They're big now, but that's not at all their biggest names before this. Comic Marvel, X-Men, Spiderman, Fantastic Four were some of their biggest hits.
@@artemi7 they were famous in the comics what are you talking about
DC make amazing films its just marvel fans like u constantly criticise DC because u want marvel films to be better than they are but in reality endgame and far from home were disasters and the new marvel avengers game was dreadful where as DC's newest films are amazing and are getting better also DC absolutely destroy marvel in the gaming department with games such as the entire Arkham series, injustice series, DCUO, the lego batman series, etc where as marvel has marvel vs capcom and marvel avengers (spiderman doesnt count cause marvel didnt make it) which is terrible except marvel vs capcom but it isnt as good as the dc games.
The difference is Loki. Period. A charismatic, multi layered performance and dialogue. And even when he’s not on screen, everyone’s talking about him, he’s the driving force behind everything the heroes do.
Man ppl really do be cock ridin tom hiddelston 😂😂😂😂. Hes a great villain but definitely a bit overrated 😂😂
Everyone was talking about Steppenwolf even when he wasn't on screen lol
Yess. And even he had his valid reasons. The backstory, the evil origin, the innocent rage and the likability. Now if you ask audience, Loki's a villian turned anti-hero turned hero. And he indeed brought avengers together 😉
@@romansionis2470 but there's so much difference. The reason, the direct harm, the manipulation..etc etc.. that was soo new then and better. Idk, but Marvel actors seem they know acting. Dc actors in Dc universe (not other movies)look blank, emotionless and just plain. Marvel, even ultron seemed true and geniune 🥺❤️
Yes. Loki is the best villain in either universe.
I only subscribed because you said, "If it's your first time here, PLEASE subscribe." It was my first time. Thank you.
The biggest difference is Avengers was made wholeheartedly from scratch to finish by a filmmaker’s vision without much studio interference. JL on the other hand was a clusterfuck of production mess, from one director to another with contrasting styles which ultimately ended up butchering the movie’s overall tone and narrative. It’s all WB’s fault at the end of the day for being the biggest influence on why the movie bombed big time.
Yea I get what u trying to say if only they made Justice League more original it would've been awesome
It's more their fault for hiring Snyder in the first place. They should have hired someone who actually likes & respects these characters. Not someone with such a hard-on for Watchmen that he tried to turn the DC universe into another Watchmen.
The problem with DC is privilege. Its heroes identities are inherited and even when a gift is accidental, its almost always certainly for the better (with Batman perhaps being the only exception). Its characters lack depth and the stories lack allegorical relevance (again, Batman and his villains being the notable exceptions) and also fail on originality therefore can only appeal to morons and douchebags.
And...they thought we would be sold on it just because...of familiar "branding." Ugh. Reminds me...of something else...I don't care for very much...
Yes, Marvel wins because we can actually imagine their characters losing. The struggle is real. 'Nuff said.
So... basically Star Wars?!?
@@wj3186 i really dont understand why people like Snyder so much. He just doesnt work for me. All he has is pizzaz, nothing really. His vision is about his cinematics, trying for that moneymaking shot but it all just falls flat. Man of Steel is okay but the animated Superman still is better because he just misses what a Superhero movie is
A petition for this guy to re-write this movie😂
I'm excited to see the Snyder cut, but also curious to see the Ryan cut. He's going to need a heck of a GoFundMe campaign so why not.
Wkwkkk
I thought the same! kkkk
But we are already getting a remake of the movie.
I remember watching the avengers for the first time when it came out on netflix
They Just made a huge build up with good actors. Thats why its working. DC didnt do many movies conected and buidling up to a Big finale. Marvel now bringing Out stuff Like Wanda Vision, Loki, Spiderman 3... They will keep on going. Love it.
Dont forget the falcon and the winter soldier 😂
Exactly
Doctor strange 2 is goimg to explode the mcu cant wait for it
I don’t think every movie needs a buildeup
@@karinawomack1476 But it's not just a movie...it's series of superhero films
There's something off and distracting about most of the DCEU costumes for me. The only way I can describe them is a bit cheap and cheesy looking.
Even Cap's suit in the first avengers is less cheesy, and it was suppose to be cheesy
I think I'd attribute this to the colour palette. Marvel costumes are generally bright and stand out against the background. They look like they're meant to be noticed. DC ones blend more into the colours in the background so it almost seems like they're meant to be subtle. But intellectually you notice that they are costumes and they don't fit the surroundings. This disonnance makes the situation seem unreal and cheesy
I would say the Asgard costumes are all cheep too, just go back and watch the first Thor, you can see all the pointies moving around when they turn their heads.
ESPECIALLY BATMAN COSTUME. LIKE WHAT IS THAT?? IT LOOKS SO BAD. WHY.
@@quimblyjones9767 agree
Is nobody going to mention that this video has the SMOOTHEST transition for a sponsor ever almost?
Friggin amazing.
A comment from a year ago did, just above your comment.
Literally
You made me disable my sponsor block for this...
I yelled when I spotted Ashley Johnson at 2:53 in that Avengers clip!
I personally completely agree with Doug. I feel like his analysis gave us an in-depth look at each individual character's psyche and explained the interactions between each of the characters so well that even without any experience I could probably re-create it just by going off of what he said alone. In the future please give him more screen/speaking time to state his points.
Yes I agree. The words he used explained his points perfectly
Doug is the Man!
I also agree with Dougs analysis he proves a fair point and therefore (in my opinion) will certainly succeed in life
Let Doug Do The Whole Video Next Time
Do they have Doug T-shirts?
For the life of me I will never understand why Batman in that scene was so adamant that Superman was a “beacon of hope”. Nothing that happened in the previous two movies did anything to suggest that Supes was anything resembling hopeful.
“Beacon of hope” refers to an indestructible unstoppable force to Ben affleck
Yeah I found Superman cold and scary in Snyder’s movies. Not a beacon of hope and justice.
This is something that people still somehow don't understand. Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice. A lot of people took the V to literal. It's not Batman VS Superman. It's Batman V Superman. "V" is a sign of peace. And a sign of peace leads to hope. That's what they represent. No matter how scary the two of them are. Even scarecrow said it in Arkham knight. "True fear is the absence of hope. And hope, is the spread wings of a Bat, shining on the clouds." Batman is truly a terrifying specimen, but he represents hope. Superman is shown as a destructive force in MOS. But by the End of BVS, he sacrifices himself to save the world. By the end of the movie, he became a figment of hope. All this aside, Snyder understands these characters better than most people think. Some of his ideas of batman are pretty bad to me, but he still kills it nonetheless. Justice League one way or another is trash tho. So glad we are getting Snyders Cut lmfaoo.
The only thing i learned from DCEU is that they all have mothers named Martha
MCU worked because they took their time building their characters story arc, everyone even the Villains were already properly introduced before The Avengers movie so the viewers already knew what they are watching. Meanwhile Justice League seemed like they rushed their Universe building. The Heroes weren't ready to team up, they needed more Solo movies of their own to hype the fans for the "Big Boss Villain". Instead DC already jumped to Justice League just so they could catch up to Marvel.
Yeah, Hawkeye was the only character to not have any actual serious screen time prior to Avengers. He just...stood on a lift with a bow for three minutes. Every other major character, including Loki, had characterization from previous movies.
@@NoodleKeeper watch thor 1, hawkey was in thor 1
@@Real_PrisiusBro, that's what I was talking about. He has like three minutes of screentime in Thor 1, but at least he existed before the Avengers movie brought them all together. Cyborg and Flash didn't get enough lead up, considering how relevant they were. Hawkeye gets a pass since he's not super important in that movie, considering he gets mind jacked for half of it.
@@NoodleKeeper and even then the mind hacking worked for the plot as it allowed Clint to be well utilised as an adversary beforehand and be built up as a great ally by Natasha talking about him so him joining the team felt earned and you felt like you got to know him by the end
@@NoodleKeeper you will know his back story on black widow.
I see a lot of people in the comments saying that "but marvel belongs to Disney, that's why they have money" and "but marvel's actors are way better" but what people forget is that when they produced the first iron man movie they were in a very low point, marvel was almost bankrupted, they had to sell their most popular heros to others company, with the money they could make the first iron man solo, ok Robert Downey Jr. Was already famous but he was for a long time out of Hollywood to drug problems and that was his comeback, so if the movie didn't go well, marvel was done. Then there's the actors, if you compare the actors of avengers and justice league, Chris Evans, Mark Ruffalo, scarlett johansson and Jeremy Renner, were more like romantic comedy actors, and Hemsworth was very knew. While the justice league Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill were already know from some movies, and Jason Momoa from game of thrones, so if you image that if this two movies came out at the same time probably justice league would get more attention at first, but we all know that anyway in the end avengers would take the cake.
Not to mention that Iron Man wasn't even that popular or likeable in the comics. It always confused me why this was the character the MCU chose to start with. But surprisingly it worked pretty well for them.
@@angiewinchester3384 and now I would say iron man is one of if not the most beloved and adored super hero’s now which is very interesting
You saying this completely reminded me of the fact that if Marvel held out just a LITTLE longer, transformers probably could've been in one of the avengers films. Transformers was a Marvel thing before it was sold to Hasbro. I think transformers even had a crossover with the avengers PRE-hasbro purchase
@@sinnamonski685 transformers has always been owned by hasbro they teamed up with takra tomi to create a new ip for the west to sell diaclone under the comics were made by marvel yes but they didn’t own it they had the rights to make comics
I love both marvel and dc but stan lee said himself that when he and jack created their characters they wanted all of them to be relatable. Marvel literally focuses on their flaws and builds around that. Now im NOT saying DC doesn’t do that. But it’s really more prominent in everything thats marvel. Comics, movies, games, they always show the lowest point before showing the greatness.
You are right I mean Watch the trailer for Marvel's defenders
Stan Lee wanted people to see his hero's as human to show people that even the strongest of people have problems and that even they can break sometimes
It's 2 colour vs 4 colour, silver vs bronze era superheroes
I agree. Even Thor, a literal God is divided weather he's worthy of protecting earth or not and sometimes his overconfidence and arrogance take control. On the other hand Superman is a flawless hero that nobody relates to and we just see a guy mindlessly defeating bad guys. The only superman movie I liked was superman 3 where he was gradually turning evil and clark kent defeated him. That was good character development. Imo marvel has so much more depth and thought put into the characters. This can also be seen in the comics
Batffleck was the most beaten down hero I have ever seen . I don't think you can even call him a hero anymore in BVS
@@modernnorseman3615 wow your bias is showing [looking at your profile name]
1. I do agree with Doug.
2. The similarities between the two films are ridiculous, yet somehow they were received completely different.
"DC turned humans into Gods, Marvel made Gods bleed"
You are wrong .... Let me correct you.. DC turned god into human whereas Mravel turned human into God....
Which one you prefer.....
@@karusaaverse DC Heroes are over powerful to the point that making a villain doesn't make any sense because they will surely defeat it, especially SUPERMAN. MC Heroes are powerful but they got defeated and had greater challenges other than a villain and in the end they won not because of their super powers but because of overcoming their own demons and most especially because they were united. Justice League won against Steppenwolf because of Superman (They even resurrected him because Batman said they need Superman to defeat Steppenwolf) while Avengers won against Thanos because of Teamwork. Alone they can't win but together they can. Unlike in DC Superman was the reason why they won and the other heroes became his assistants. Lol
@@xiantejamo Marvel has also overpowered character Thor, Hulk, Scarlett Witches,
If Superman is overpowered then Hulk is also Overpowered. Thor is another level. If you doesn't believe me then watch every "versus battle" You will find it better. If you are not then You should start liking Superman instead of Thor.
@@karusaaverse The moment superman was resurrected, he didn't even got wounds fighting the villain. While the avengers all got hurt, they we're powerless against thanos. No matter how powerful they are, they still got hurt and even lost loved ones. While justice league just kicked Steppenwolf's ass so easily like there's no sense of making a villain HAHA
@@xiantejamo and who directed the movie? ......You know very well
"Avengers is a movie about a peolple, whereas the justice league is a movie about..." (AD Interupts) "O L A Y B O D Y W A S H!!!!!!!!!"
*laughs in adblock*
I got state farm
I laughed so hard when my comercial said PAMPERS lol
Tori Rose...Marvel movies were made for dumb, simple minded people like you. Disney/Marvel took the safe route...Make typical, mindless, American action films, with bad jokes, and pretty colors and you get Marvel. Tori...It's because of dumb people like you, that bad movies make a lot of money at the box office. It's not the first time either...
@@theminotaur8015 dude it’s a joke about a commercial who asked for a paragraph
I have never related to thor more when fury pointed at him and ge was like "me?"
4:56
The guy everyone blames?
I agree with the main point: DC is just about the movie. MCU is about the people and the relationships. There is "heart" in the MCU; you care about the people. DC has some good actors but we never buy into what they are selling. We don't care about them - and THAT is what they will need to fix if DC wants to compete with the MCU.
Screen Crush: Justice league is about..
TH-cam ads: Pampers
LOLOOL
Well, it is pretty shit.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Appropriately so .. 😂😂😂😂😂
Savage
Deadass I just got the same ad 😂😂