'Starship Troopers' Q&A | Paul Verhoeven & Casper Van Dien
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Director Paul Verhoeven and actor Casper Van Dien discuss their 1997 film 'Starship Troopers' before a screening at the Film Society of Lincoln Center.
Part comic book-style action adventure, part scathing satire of the military-industrial complex, Starship Troopers is one of the most subversive artistic acts ever perpetrated with a $100 million budget. Welcome to the 24th century, where fresh-faced, idealistic teens are encouraged to join up and become “citizens” by enlisting in the intergalactic army. They’ll grow up, see the universe, and, oh yeah, be slaughtered by the thousands as they battle giant, mutant insects threatening to wipe out mankind. Abetted by seamless special effects and impressively gory CGI carnage, Verhoeven delivers both a thrilling science fiction spectacle and a devastating takedown of jingoistic militarism.
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I'm from Buenos Aires and here everyone loves Starship Troopers, obviously.
Death drive?
I'm from Buenos Aires and I say KILL EM ALL
Glad you are still around ;-)
lmao, of course
Sorry to be offtopic but does anyone know a way to log back into an Instagram account??
I was stupid lost my account password. I would appreciate any help you can give me.
Verhoeven is so humble. He even defends the sequels.
And the sequels are fucking awful.
@@sanshakuvakei2109 Aw the third one where it shows Casper's dong was kinda neat for the budget.
That’s because while Verhoven can probably stretch a dollar, Euro or pound. I think he knows what money is to something of this size. If you look at Verhoven he even executive produced the animated tv show and the third sequel. I think he supports some of the people he worked with and has the European attitude of applauding anyone who gets a film made.
Wow the robot they got to do the interview is the most realistic I've ever seen
One of my all-time favorites. Funny and depressing at the same time, a critic of society, war, movie making, Beverly Hills 90210... Marvelous.
A man must really spite 90210 when he makes a landmark film with a cast member from saved by the bell.
Verhoeven is an under-appreciated genius. He makes delightfully schlocky movies that are surprisingly deep when you start to dissect them. It's good to see people are catching on to the satire in his films.
In general his movies are ok but he BUTCHERED this particular one. Didn't even read the book it was based on. You know the classic that established pretty much every single sci-fi trope that is adored to this day like power armor, dropping from orbit shit like that and this collosal walking ego decided he could make a movie without it.
@@xander.357 ok nerd
@@An0xymoron127 riveting comeback. Congratulations you've killed my soul.
@@xander.357 jokes on you, I don’t even have rivets
@@An0xymoron127 you're a sharp one
A funny things is that he speaks Dutch with an American accent and English with a Dutch accent
Verhoeven knows how to make a sci fi futuristic thriller
Yes
I have always loved Starship Troopers. I saw it again yesterday and it's still an amazing movie that holds up even today.
Casper's Verhoeven impression is hilariously spot on!
His impression of Paul Verhoeven. Agreed!
So is Barack Obamas!
I'd follow John Rico to any battlefield so long he quotes that one line that makes life worth living and dying for.
It's sad that Caper's career never really took off after this film and 'Sleepy Hollow'.
He's been a steadily working hollywood actor. That's rare in and of itself
He was Tarzan as well, saw that in theaters as a kid and loved it
Paul Verhoeven. Damn Legend. Hope he has a big movie left in him. God bless.
casper van dien looks like to current bearded chad meme
Even without the beard he looks like a supermodel no homo
They should have Verhoeven to direct the next Star Wars. He's great with Sci-fi!
The ironic thing is that he actually doesn't like sci fi despite that he is known for it.
Did you not watch the interview? Lmao
Hah! I'd love to see that. He'd make it as violent as he possibly could. No PG-13 bullshit. No. He'd make it his own.
The only reason Verhoeven did SF movies was because he was unknown at the time and he just didn't get offers for serious movies.
@@osbrax on the contrary, verhoeven his dutch movies caused him to get noticed in hollywood and by spielberg, he watched soldiers of orange and was so impressed he called paul to come to hollywood, so thats not true, his dutch films are his best films also, shot on very minimal budget. look on soldier of orange, one of his best movies and then look at turks fruit, finest dutch movies ever made, if verhoeven had direct star wars it would of been insane lol but even spielberg respects and had big admiration for verhoeven, already in 1980's but classic verhoeven is too ultra violence for star wars and paul would make the movie his own.
Carl in full gestapo uniform, overly hysterical commercials, Rasczak: "When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is the supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived." and people didn't get the satire the first time? Puzzles me!
It’s a true statement, it is the foundation of every civilisation. It. Is hardly satiric because it is true, what happens when you break the law? Authority kicks in the door and tells you to stop under the threat of persecution - violence - if you don’t.
Carl never said that. You don't even know the movie
A mixture of political truth and satire. Very different from the source novel, in a very Verhoeven way.
@Frozen Sea Eh I agree with 1 and 2. I also agree the movie was shite at being satire because the director didn't even read the book.
However, number 3 is correct. Voting is the use of authority and governments have always and will always be determined by the use and threat of force.
@@triggerme6144 lol the book was NOT satirical
Jesus Christ.
I saw it in the cinema when I was 18, I got it, it's pretty obvious.
I watched it in theaters with my grandmother and mom, when I was 12? Yeah that was a good time.
Maybe a lot of people were real fucking stupid in the 90s
@@shruk4 Stupidity never die, my friend.
I have to admit I watched it at the same age at the same time and missed the satire. I was kind of weirded out by the militarism. My dad watched it with me and also missed the satire.
Same for me I was effing 12! Still got it!
Paul Verhoeven single-handedly created mid 80's/90's sci fi cinema.
when I saw the trailer in the theater, my jaw hit the floor
scambune remember the soundtrack? Blur - song 2
I was 11 when I first saw this movie and I thought and still think its the funniest sci-fi out there. 10/10 in my top 3 movies
If they ever do a flashback scene in Game Of Thrones they should cast Casper as Rhaegar Targaryen
it's funny that you bring up Game of Thrones, because when i watched that show, i thought Daenerys lacked the fanaticism that she should have. but that's something that Starship Troopers captures perfectly: the fanaticism of authoritarian cultures xD
you're totally right, that it would be fun to have Verhoeven do GoT 🤣
STARSHIP TROOPERS is one of my fav movies ever!! It's unique, amazing narrative and great actors involved.
The movie aged well, 20 years later people finaly get the satire, the propaganda, the metaphors of war and politics.
Rui Luz amen
There is no satire you idiot. The only satire is that the director says it is satire to cover his own ass. He made a movie about facists who were heroes those are his words.
Most striking similarity to today is the classroom scene at the beginning where the teacher says the "Social sciences had failed and brought Western civilization into chaos" that could be something directly taken from the mouth of Jordan Peterson
@@justinosborn6743 wow hurt feelings brigade! Top 10 best movie. Deal with it snowflake
because the world itself after the '90s become a gross overblown autoparody, disturbing
What an eloquent, clever man. And that at 26:45 - precisely what I started doing to cope with present situation. I'm glad and encouraged that artist who made one of my favourite films did the same.
Wow Casper Van Dien looks the same
Yes. He did try to disguise the fact with that fake beard :-)
Vampire!
Still a Chad
To be fair, any person my age, (mid thirties) thought this was just an amazing space action movie when they first saw it. The layers did not come into it. Don't tell me different.
It's such a layered movie though. It works both as satire and a popcorn space movie
The satire is supreme though. Everything in this movie is crafted to be so. From the supermodel main characters with an empty stare, to the propaganda videos. To the fact that this entire movie looks like it is a 40's style in universe propaganda flick, Mandatory watching for every new Mobile Infantry recruit. Just look at the ending. Damn this movie fucking rocks.
That critic who didn't like it and was spiteful about it is someone I despise.
this is one of my all time favorite movies.
It's a failed piece of satire lol. You didn't understand the material or the philosophy of the movie. All you saw was Doogie Howser in a trench coat and blindly think "derrr dis is about duh nazis".
That people think this movie satires anything boggles my mind. A description of every government in mankind's history and how societies operate equates to fascism is the perfect mechanism to expose how absolutely ignorant people are of politics and reality.
One of my all time favorite movies. At the time I saw I was huge into Halo so I ended up loving this movie so much. Wish there could’ve been a few sequels that captured the same magic as the first
We all know it was a movie based on the book, but in the end we got 2 separeted things and they are both amazing as it is.
Stop complaining "ahh it is not like the book" a movie will never be like the book and vice versa just know how to admire both otherwise you will never be satisfied with cinema now days
Exactly! Personally... I love both
Yeh I think they're two different things and love it.
Will love to see a movie eventually based on the book proper but I also want proper sequels to this movie
At this point he is actually the only one that could save Star Wars now... though of course they would never hire someone like him and will always hire someone like Jar Jar Abrahms, cause while one makes good movies and the other one doesn't, Jar Jar makes movies that make money and Verhoeven makes great movies that make no money cause it takes 20 years for people to appreciate them...
@@EmmanuelGoldsteinINGSOC star wars doesn't deserve to be saved. No franchise that can't make a good movie in be better part of half a century deserves to last.
Starship troopers is a shit book though. Even ignoring the pro fascist sentiment of the book it's incredibly boring leaving it with no redeeming value.
All of the Starship Troopers Q&A's are some of the best there is on youtube. Great people:) This interviewer/moderator is really good too:)
Disagree on the moderator. He didn't really know anything about the book its based on or what other film in the series Casper was in so he asked some ignorant questions. He needed to do his research before the interview...
awful moderator
An all-time favorite movie that I watch at least once a year!
People are fixated on the satirical elements. However the surface level movie is just as great.
amazing film amazing cast amazing creative director
People might laugh or shrug off this movie as sci-fi junk but IMO it was genius and almost ahead of its time. It manages to be a silly, goofy, sci-fi movie and an actually almost disturbing deep thought piece at the same time.
It’s absolutely disturbing. I don’t see how people look at this movie and not realize that it’s one year of a man’s life where he loses everything and everyone he loves in the name of finally dying for an endless war. Idk, it was very open about just how much death and ruin is everywhere
Masterpiece[Noun] : A thing that is still looking awesome even it is made in 20 years ago.
ex) Starship troopers VFX,CGI
Paul V. is a genius
I would advise anyone who hasn't seen it yet, to watch Paul Verhoeven's first great WW2 movie: "Soldier of Orange."
Best to get the Dutch version with English subtitles.
Anyway, in this clearly patriotic WW2 movie, the protagonist, Erik, is on a spying mission, dressed as a German Naval Officer.
At a pretty drunk party for German officials, high ranking officers etc., he spots an old friend from his student time, who is wearing a German SS uniform.
Both sit down his friend who's fighting the Soviet Army on the Eastern Front (very heroic, blew up a German tank) remarks disapprovingly that he didn't expect Erik amongst all these Germans and their collaborators. He doesn't reveal his friend's true identity to the surrounding Germans and both talk about the war in general. The friend, fighting with the German SS, remarks that 'soon, the Americans will join in with the Germans to fight the Soviet Communists on the Eastern Front.' But he also remarks that the both of them probably won't live to see that day.
Had anyone seen this movie first, they would have understood that Verhoeven rarely gives clear cut, simple issues in his films.
Apart from the movie "Soldier of Orange," a mini tv-series with more material and scenes was shot.
In this expanded version of the story, the German counter intelligence SD commander strikes a deal with a Jewish female friend (and former love interest) of the protagonist. He proposes she become his girlfriend so she will not be sent to a concentration camp.
But when the war is over and the Germans have left or surrendered, he has kept true to his word and she is free again.
However, Dutch rioters (not really esistance fighters because most of the rioters joined only after it was clear the Germans were losing badly) attack her for having slept with a German so they shave her head and mark her as a traitor.
After a while, Erik arrives, dressed in full uniform with all his medals on his chest, the war hero.
He finds out what happened to his Jewish friend but she says at least they survived.
I forgot to mention, to show how each person or group may not be as we think them to be: at the beginning of the movie, the Germans are invading Holland by dropping paratroopers. The protagonist, Erik and another friend, are returning from a student gala/prom on their motorbikes, as they spot several parachutes hanging in the trees. At a crossroads, they encounter a group of German paratroopers, finishing the bottles of milk they just got from a Dutch milkman.
Their commander sees how both Erik and his friends are still dressed in their fancy party clothes, asks about the party and remarks how Dutch girls are great. Then he orders his men to pay for their milk and follow him because there's a war going on.
The Dutch milkman is quite happy with these paying customers because they included a generous tip!
It's a fantastic film, excellent satire and action!
Basil Poledouris !
Casper Van Dien awesome guy, great b movies. Oh god facist give me a break frickin europe. Starship Trooper one of my favorites seen it at a out door drive in theatre.
Dude, the movie was intended to be a satire of militarism and fascism, so of course it would be easy to misinterpret. Did you not just watch the interview?
Everything is fascist apart from actual fascism to these people
@@squamish4244 That you think it's a satire of anything showcases your inability to critically analyse something. You are so ignorant, it amazes me that you could even type out anything coherent is an absolutely miracle.
I'm from Milan, Italy, and I'm not fascist.
I don't think it's a dangerous fascist movie and I love it.
And I Always loved it
That's because a fascist government wouldn't have voluntary military service.
As soon as the movie started I fell in love with it.
i saw this at cinema age 12.... It boosted my confidence I think, it's a great film, and clever too.
As I recall, Buenos Aries was hit in the book, but Juan Rico was actually Filipino.
OneEyedJack1970 Does the book explain how the Bugs ended up on different planets? Did they have space travel or were indigeous to each planet?
ADDENDUM: Saw the film again on cable. The biology teacher explains the bugs are able to send their spores throughout space.
D Cavalli in the book the bugs have space ships
@@dcavalli9 The book is extremely different from the movie.
@@dcavalli9The book Bugs are individuals, though with a naturally evolved caste system and inherent insticts towards a collectivist mentality. (Their society is kind of a mix between feudalism and communism, and it is acknowledged that it's genuinely working for them.) They use technology, and are advanced enough to be a serious opponent to book MI who roll in power suits and toss around mini-nukes as standard squad-level support weapons.
@@magni5648 Thanks.
I thought to remember that it whas a wonderfull Xmas movie in the Netherlands. We just loved it!
Man that director can make some banger movies. Love his stuff
I love to see Casper van Dean in person 🥰💞💕
I appreciated this movie from the first time I saw it!
I mean, how do people miss these ironies that Paul intended? Robocop's commercials? Total Recall's advertisements for fake vacations? Starship Trooper's recruiting ads? Its like.. how can the press miss these very intended wink/nods to the audience. That the surface is so glossed over that you realize that the "culture" in the films is unhealthy but that the culture is not self aware of that problem. Ironically... this is the exact problem with trust in news and politics still to this day.
Better than the 3 star wars prequels
I feel your hate... get over it b i t c h
@@ZA-7 Only a bitch would like those movies.
Hahaha no sir I’m sorry you are mistaken
Definitely better than the 3 Star Wars sequels
IMO starship troopers > every Star Wars movie
Please release a 20th anniversary edition blu-ray
I've seen this movie so many times, along with ROBOCOP and total recall ..... he's a genius. I have no idea how anyone can misinterpret this movie. I guess most People aren't that intelligent.
Hanniffy Dinn people didn’t misinterpret it, they just didn’t enjoy it. These guys are resulting to insults because they can’t accept the possibility that the movie just isn’t that great.
Exactly. Despite the director's own biases and hang ups, even his attempt to create a hack job of Heinlein's work is a complete and utter failure of any kind in terms of satire.
Took me until adulthood to truly understand Paul Verhoeven's Starship Trooper. I though it was just a popcorn flick when I was young.
Understand it?
I was a pup when I saw this one in theaters. Opening night I remember hearing a lot of laughs from the older folks, lol. As a kid it was just a badass sci fi film, as an adult it's hilarious.
I don't understand how people "didn't get" Starship Troopers. I was 11 when I first saw it, and understood perfectly well that it was taking the piss out of fascism, and asking the audience whether it was the bugs that were really that bad.
So, how was that hard to understand for adults?!
Casper was/is very handsome had he gotten some better roles he could have been a very big hit....c'est la vie
Fun fact: there's Buenos Aires the city and Buenos Aires the province. People from the city are called porteños not Buenos aireans.. On the other hand bonaerense (someone who is from Buenos Aires the province) although the expression exists experts on social studies says that the people from the province doesn't have an identity to the province but to the counties.. Just wanted to share that, thought it might be a weird fact to add but don't know exactly why
17:55 - 20:05 That was brilliant. I love Verhoeven!
i love how the movie turned out well, because there was no oversight xD imagine what movies could be if managers were fired more often 🤣🤣🤣
i love this so much
THIS IS WHAT MOVIE MAKING IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best star wars movie since return of the Jedi
I liked it when i saw it in the theaters, but i was 19 and didn't get it then
American's didn't want to get it. It was about us. I was 16yrs old & I got it. I may have been only 12 during Gulf War 1 but I recognized the parallels immediately. Kids were wearing Schwarzkopf merch & "Death To Saddam" t-shirts to school ffs.
“They were different colour, really” hahahaha!
Really nice interview, well done!
I'm doing my part!
One the most loved movies) Very good talk about the film) Thanks from Russia) Один из любимых фильмов) Спасибо за видео беседы, было очень интересно) Пол Крутой))
If we ever contact or are contacted by an alien civilization, what if we find them repellent? What if they find us repellent? I find it interesting to think about. It's not a given that they'll be cute, friendly or easily understood. What do we do if our immediate reaction is one of disgust?
I FUCKING REQUIRE VERHOEVEN MAKING A NEW BIG BUDGET MOVIE. I DEMAND IT!
Paul is a magnificent genius!
Casper is Buenos Aryan
Took the humor out of the 2nd one? I don't know... I was laughing my ass of for the entire movie, for the wrong resons but still.
ITS A GOOD DAY TO DIE
fresh meat for the grinder?
Ha ha ha. Love the way they skirted the apology.
0:40 Casper's like "I wanna watch this"
I WANT TO LEARN MORE!
I first watched Robocop on VHS with my older brother when I was seven, then a year later we saw Starship Troopers in theaters. I’ve been a fan of these two fellas ever since :)
I think Casper van Dean is the most prettiest and cuties and amazing guy on earth 🌎
JONNY RICO
-INFANTRTY MOBILE
-LEADER GRUOP
-COPRAL
-SERSAN
-LETNAN (STARSHIP TROOPERS 1).
-KOLONEL(STAR SHIP TROOPERS MAUDER 3).
I'd like to see Verhoeven make a sequel that's about the Federation fighting the skinnies.
Honestly, I didn’t see the movie until I was in my 20s. I was about 12 when it came out, but the way it was advertised rubbed off as some kind of generic Aliens knock-off. I was at a bar when they popped ST in, and I noticed everyone getting excited, so I decided to sit down and give the movie a go. It is now one of my favorite movies and I most certainly would’ve liked it when I was younger had I known what it really was about.
I think the studio handled it wrong back when it was released, which is why it has become such a cult classic now. Of course, there are other events that have happened since its release that make it more relevant, but it ultimately was because the studio tried to dress it up as a brainless popcorn flick.
I think the studio unknowingly played right into Verhoeven's cutting critique and satire. Not that he wanted that to happen--of course he wanted it to be successful and appreciated upon its release--but there is a poetic irony in the reality of a capitalist society fumbling and not knowing to do with a film that is directly confronting it. It's ::chef's-kiss::
Infantry made me the man i am today
That scene really ticked me off because the whole point of it in the book was that they *deliberately* had the old veteran with a missing leg in there as receptionist, to drive it home to candidates that military service is not a game and that they need to be extremely damn sure about wether they truly want to volunteer.
Starship bloopers!
Casper wasn't in on the joke at the time 😂 it's very clear.
How could anyone NOT understand the satirical content and overall-tone of this movie????!!! I loved it for this and didn't expect it as I thought it's just a colourful space war movie. Which it is not. It's a great thing too watching all this beautiful Soap Opera Babes and Gals being brutally ripped in pieces by the big bugs when the two have their first battle against each other. It's shocking and so funny. Pure Verhoeven, just great.
i saw it 3 times in the theater. wasnt political. its just awesome.
Does the interviewer even want to talk to Caspar?
I was 18 at the time and I was pretty disturbed by the militaristic elements in the movie at the time, like wtf? My dad watched the movie with me and he was offended too. I didn't get the satire until years later.
I FUCKIN LOVE THIS GUY.
I can’t believe ppl didn’t get the point that Verhoeven made a satire
1:15 Let's talk/hear about that regarding Alex Murphy/Alex Murphy
I love to share and subscribed and leave a comment about the most prettiest man on earth 🌎
So lame they only did a budget of 10 million for the sequels, good ones would be reaping so much money
Make it 20 Rico....
it's weird. we all got it in my family and everyone at school. I'm amazed at how dumb some people are.
Casper I always thought could have played a famous star ship captain ….
Most of the video essays I've seen on Starship Troopers trying to explain why it's a brilliant satire on fascism end up distorting and misrepresenting the plot elements of the movie to make their point. It's almost like each video maker wants to tailor the film to their own personal political bias. I think it's interesting to hear from Verhoeven himself describing this as a film that was meant to seduce the audience, and one that was meant to initially show a utopian vision. He doesn't say it's clearly a fascist society, he says it's one where they are on their way to fascism and it's at the end where you wonder if what you have come to admire might end up being evil. I'll admit, that that's how I originally viewed the film. I was drawn in, seduced but also weary at the end because the war doesn't end. You don't get closure and you're allowed to make up your own mind. You can rationalize the effort to keep fighting and win the war or you can rationalize that too much has been sacrificed and the war is an un-winnable quagmire.
Film was released 10 yrs too early! 10 years later people would have understood and related to the message
I love both but as different things. If you compare the movie to the book you will find the movie severely wanting
This film hit the nail on the head. Even fascists think it depicts fascism and hate how it does it. You want to live forever?
Explain how it's about fascism. If you can.
@@spenser9908 Their childhood friend literally shows up at the end of the film in a n4zi uniform and explains how he has become numb to the importance of human life because he has to send thousands to their death as part of his job. The entire film is about how these kids become meat for the grinder due to the war-like, colonial, imperial ideology of their government. Are you being serious right now?
@@ash_yt0 NPH wore a trench coat, and someone in military intelligence is forced to make difficult decisions involving people's lives.
Where's the fascism, mate?
Imperial ideology? They literally told the Mormons not to establish an outpost on a world that wasn't even the bug home world. They didn't even retaliate after the bugs slaughtered the Mormons.
You do not know the movie.
@@spenser9908 Do you have something actually medically wrong with you? I'm genuinely concerned for you. You're literally on a video where the director is directly, unambiguously talking about his intent to portray the Terran federation as fascistic. Just watch the video... You are exhibiting extremely concerning levels of cognitive bias if you're unable to take onboard facts straight from the horse's mouth about his own movie and own intentions. Everything from the interstitial propaganda reels, to the classroom talks about democracy being overthrown with a system where military service is required in order to receive your rights, to the aesthetic of everything that gets increasingly more obvious as the film continues, it's literally impossible to miss, and you're on a video where the director spells it out for you.
Also yes, imperialistic ideology. The specifics of how a war start is not relevant to how eager one side is to engage in war. Everyone is eager to sign up and kill the bugs because of the propaganda the federation pumps out. It shows soldiers giving kids weapons and making it seem like a fun toy, which shows the brainwashing starts at an early age. It shows a house wife getting giddy over the killing of bugs with her children even though those bugs are only superficially similar etc. Fascism is defined by its devaluing of individuality and human life, and the inflated value of militaristic victory and strength. Even something as simple as Rico's tutor praising him for shooting him in the heart is an example of the bleakness of this world where circumstances are so dire that murdering your mentor is viewed a noble action in the context of that moment.
@@ash_yt0 Shame tactics followed by a weak-ass appeal to authority lol. It's all you clowns have.
Absence of universal suffrage does not equal fascism, friend. Grow a brain. Think for yourself.
You're going to Harvard and that's the end of it!
It’s my decision not yours!
Verhoeven according to his own words didn't read Heinlein's book and his movie completely failed to understand the source material. Heinlein was not describing fascism, he was describing the opposite of fascism.
Verhoeven according to his own words was closely working with a screenwriter (Ed N.) and a producer (Jon D.) on the screenplay. I'm sure Ed & Jon told him everything he needed to know about the original novel... ;)
Absolutely correct. He clearly didn’t read it. And if anyone did, they didn’t understand it. As I heard it, the movie story was written about a space war with bugs, and then later grafted onto the character names from ST to gain credibility.
I think it was said that he read two chapters then stopped
That story by Casper is proof that critics don't enjoy films for being the experience they are - unless they have some deeper satirical meaning - which they do of course, but it shouldn't take away enjoyment of a movie like this. I hate critics.