Afghan Girl - What did Steve McCurry say about it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- Afghan Girl
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Steve McCurry´s iconic image The Afghan Girl has raised some conversation again. I met Steve McCurry in 2010 and had a chance to record an audio file of his talk in a small meeting of photographers. I pick three parts of this hour-long interview with Steve McCurry. The most interesting part was when Steve McCurry told how they started to look for Sharbat Gula, The Afghan Girl.
#AfghanGirl #Olympus #PeterForsgard
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Peter, thank you for allowing us to hear Steve McCurry's side of this story in his own words. It is much appreciated!
Tony and Clickbait have been issuing videos for some time that are designed to create headlines e.g. "Micro Four Thirds is dead". These days I prefer to ignore them.
The road to 10M subscribers is not getting anywhere with the usual click-baiting so he decides to denounce a living world famous photographer for a change. Way to go.
I just blocked their channel so it never gets in my recommendation feed.
Did you watch Tony's video. He started it as a tribute piece, then was upset to see the truth.
@@derekshearer9049Derek, your loyalty is commendable.
@@onthemove301. Imagine how loyal I could be to you if you investigated the facts before posting. Cheers
Put money aside and that one picture from Steve McCurry is probably worth more than Tony’s whole career.
Nothing better than to hear the story from the person himself.
Thanks for sharing this. Very interesting. Congrats on 10k!
Thank you.
Tony talked about ethics and how immoral is to make the girl take of her scarf as her religion forbids this, however that seemed horrible ironic to me at that time as her religion was keeping her in that immoral prison in the first place.
First, Peter, thanks as always for weighing in. I like you and your channel. That said, I feel this does not rise to a level that will help understand or settle the argument about "Unpaid Model vs. Photojournalism". Frankly, it raises more questions for me than it answers. We need Steve McCurry to sit down and do an interview where he is asked hard ball questions. The image itself is beautiful. It bothers me when I hear Steve talk (on your audio) that he went back at NG request for a follow-up story (I'm sure looking for cover/click bait). This is understandable and similar to a follow-up search for a photo of Phan Thị Kim Phúc (The Napalm Girl) taken by Nick Ut. I was personally interested in both follow-up stories and photos. In the original photo of Phan Thị Kim Phúc the angst is palpable. No explanation needed. In the "Afghan Girl" photo there is now a question of "what was the fear of, really?". I'm not sure it matters unless that fear was placed there artificially by the photographer (and especially if local custom was ignored) just for "the shot". In the audio, which could be out of context, Steve doesn't come across as having concern about the circumstances of the person he is photographing. Just the image. He sounds oddly disconnected to her plight or circumstance. I would love to hear him speak of the surrounding circumstances now that they have been challenged. In addition, what was the motivation behind the follow-up photo shoot and why did she run off during the last photo session? This would have been the first question out of my mouth unless I already knew the answer and didn't want to share it. Hearing the audio doesn't make me feel like he was interested in "What happened to her? How is she doing now?". It feels as though it was only an assignment to help NG generate readership and gain more recognition for the photographer. Again, there is nothing wrong with this unless it is done at the expense of the person being photographed. This statement might be inaccurate and based on "out of context" clips, which is why I wish someone would have Steve on to explain his version. In the end, he doesn't really owe us an explanation for his iconic photo, but it sure might make us feel better about viewing it going forward. Rant Complete.
I think your thinking too deeply about it. As Steve says, it was a moment in time - that's all it was.
@@soundknight way too deep, stopped about 1/3rd of the way.
Thanks you a lot for your contribution in to this topic.
We wanna hear Steve's reply/answer on Tony's video!
Interesting story, thank you.
I think as a photographer is best for the photo to tell the story and not the story to tell the photo.
Exactly right. Forget all the nonsense, forget even who took the photo. The photo itself is iconic and all the noise surrounding it, how it was taken, who took it, even when it was taken take a back seat. It's art, no matter who says what, that photo will always remain iconic. If anything, Northrup unintentionally promoted it more.
this has very quickly become a tiring topic, McCurry is a fantastic photographer, fabrication is part of capturing the image on film for NG
There is a similar image by the late Brian Brake, who was a member of Magnum, called Monsoon Girl. I read that he actually had a man up a ladder pouring water from a watering can out of shot...!
Thanks Peter for another interesting topic.i only like watching Tony’s wife lol
John Sousa Chelsea is smarter than him that’s for sure.
Hello Sir,
Could you please guide how to install firmware on my Olympus OMD EM1 II THAT I just bought. The firmware on the camera shows it is on version 1.0. Do I have to update all the previous firmware or the latest one olnly? Yor answer will be highly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
shahzad ahmed Download the updater from the Olympus site and install it on your computer. Hook up your camera and follow the instructions. Good luck!
You can upload the latest. I have a video about upgrading firmware on my channel. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/RX4truamOUY/w-d-xo.html
The Tony Northrop McCurry video is on TH-cam if you search.
Okei, so he re-published it?
Yes he did. Tony posted a video stating he re-published the video.
@@ForsgardPeter Tony just changed his first video to non public while he sought clarification with McCurry's organization and Nat Geo. Then he changed it back to public. He has also put up a second rebuttal. Thanks for the sound clips
The video is back up now if anyone cares. You have to go to the Northrup's website however to find it.
It's on their youtube channel!
Thank you for your impressive contribution to the topic!
Thanks for uploading your version.
Remember having this issue of Nat geo . Thanks for sharing .
I didn't agree with the overall demeanor and self-serving characterization with which Northrop presented McCurry as, however in this video Steve stated "she kinda dashed off and she didn't come back" after having 4 or 5 pictures taken (9:38). She was obviously, possibly for a 2nd time, not comfortable with this. Having one's image taken is culturally taboo in Islamic societies. Mr. McCurry sounds like a gentile individual who is also genuine and concerned for others, but this video does not disprove Tony's premise and research but may actually bolster it... I should also add that I've enjoyed many of your videos Peter, though I seldom comment. Great content, thanks.
Who cares about what Tony Northrup says? Nobody has to justify themselves to that self serving prick, his character assassination for views is pretty much tabloid low.
Since the second meeting she has become a bit of a minor celebrity on her national TV etc.
In 1984 attitudes were very different to what they are today, mainly built of phenomenal amount of self-righteous ignorance. Even those who knew more didn’t understand as much as we do today. I’m not in anyway defending this, I'm just stating what was.
Pre 'Afghan Girl' Steve McCurry was in the main an unknown photographer, extraordinary, but unknown. He certainly didn’t have the power and celebrity he has today, his job then was to please his bosses and to hopefully make it as one of the greatest photographers of his generation. He, as I think most of us would have at that age at that time, was after the holy grail of that shot and with the head of youth did things differently that he would at his age now in today’s world.
There, in my opinion, a list of photographers such Gilden, Mann, and Mark all of whom have behaved in a far more egregious manner. This is by no means an exhaustive list. They have used mental health, their own children and malformed circus performers purposely and knowingly for their own gain. Admittedly Mark's work seem to draw our attention more to how we view those who are different than the differences themselves.
I’m not defending 'Afghan Girl', beyond being a stunning image, all I’m trying to do is to a little perspective into the hysteria that has recently been whipped up. I’ve seen the documentary around finding Sharbat Gula, McCurry certainly doesn’t come across to me as a man setting about this search without conscience. I doubt very much as an age peer of myself that he is the same man he was in 1984 and I’m sure his values have evolved and matured as I hope mine have.
Tony Northrup isn’t an artistic photographer, unfortunately I think his Asperger’s type behaviours always draw him back to the pixel peeping science rather than the holistic art. This is why his technically perfect photography lends itself so well to stock photography. This doesn’t make him any less, but looking for different things in his images. He does however understand the science better than most. However, this can also result in him frequently missing the bigger picture. The sometimes subtle, often not so subtle, ways both the micro and more importantly macro society has changed can escape him.
The image cannot be untaken now, it’s no longer a case of burning a few negatives. But nor should it be untaken or destroyed, it is artistically a masterpiece and the lady in question is more than happy.
Bottom line is - he made lots of money and fame from that photograph. The woman on the photo did not get any money for that photograph. Time to pay her according to US standards, because that is where Mr. McCurry was earning his money.
Yes there is a controversy about this image. They did set up some fund many years later. It for schooling children. I agree that it was way too late.
Tony have put the video back on his channel. Lol
This video and the audio clips do not cover event of when/how he got the photo of the girl.
What I would like to hear from Mr. McCurry is the story about the photographing of the girl. On that day, in that room, what was said to the adults (and the girl) in that room about taking a photograph of a child in a muslim country, during a war.
We all know how the female is treated in the muslim religion and for a total stranger to get in a room with a young muslim woman and take photo's is the part I'd like to hear directly from the photographer. Your audio clips do not cover that topic. That is the topic that the Northrup video covered.
And what will change after hearing it ?
@@scallen3841 Maybe his view on things might change when the photographer tells how it went down, now it's only hearsay Maybe even better if she herself would tell the story
The Tony Northrup initial video was reposted and is here: th-cam.com/video/RuFKpaV_jjo/w-d-xo.html
This is some contradicting information from this and Tony's info. The point of Tony's video is about ethics. He said he had source of the interview from the girl, she said she did not wanted her picture to he taken at the time. Of course, most people like me did not read that story. But never the less, it's good to hear from you both side of the story.
Tony said......National Geografic refer those eyes expresion because the fear of war, and it was really for been without his vel in front a unknow man.......thats a important issue to discus, the manipulation of the media
Tony has a point.
As you are using the image and story, are you donating any money to the cause?
The video is still available on Tony's channel.
By your own admission, you haven't even watched Tony's video. Don't you think you should?
Yes, I have. But the time I made this it was not online.
@@ForsgardPeter
Thank you
i'm grateful for that and your responce.
You are using the image to attract views (thats the reason I watched it)
May I ask: Are you donating from the income of this video?
Kind regards
So basically he bent the rules (and he knows it...) but if National Geographic pays a small fee it's ok. This girl's dream was most probably to be left alone, but going to Mecca (many years later...) is also not bad, I guess.
Very good insight. Enjoyed.
Peter - Tony issue a follow up web cast and in that web cast he explains where you can see the original video.
Sharbat Gula was compensated a good 15 or so years AFTER she was exploited for profits by the photographer. She belongs to the pushtoon tribe, who are notoriously conservative. The fear in her eyes was likely the fear of a stranger taking photos without her consent. Opening up one school in Afghanistan does not compensate for $#!t 😠
Given how famous this photo is, it must have made way more money for NatGeo than a school and some houshold items for the family, I think she deserves more
You can still find the video here: m.th-cam.com/video/RuFKpaV_jjo/w-d-xo.html
So tired of this Steve McCurry issue. We don’t care. TH-cam photographers feeding on the Tony Northrop video for likes and money.
Thanks for contributing authoritative, attributed information about the photo, subject, and Steve McCurry. I was very pleased to hear McCurry - in his own words - from before the 35 year old image suddenly became a ‘controversy.’
Thank you for insight.
I am sad to say that I am very disappointed. The Northrup channel has always handled themselves with class, and this last video is totally out of character. If Tony's intentions were to raise awareness for the Sahar Girls fund, he could have made a case for them without being slanderous of Steve McCurry. In his video he stated Steve forcibly made the child do things. To me that is child abuse and very slanderous. He should definitely reconsider that statement. I do not want to see Tony get in a law suit, but Steve has the right to protect his reputation. Disturbingly, Tony never mentioned the projects and millions of dollars raised by the National Geographic Society for the Afghan Girls Fund and the Afghan Children’s Fund.
Maybe Tony should go back and watch his own “The photography community is TOXIC (Picture This! Podcast)” youtube video.
The Northrup are scammers from day one.
@@melvinch Please do not comment with baseless and meaningless personal attacks. If you have something civil and constructive to add to the discussion please comment.
@@deckluck372 I'm sorry but you're definitely blind not to see thru their chicanery. Personal attacks and baseless comments are exactly the Northrup's forte, not mine.
@Rejoicing In Hope Phony Northrup epitomises the saying "When a thief cries 'Thief' !"
Northrup’s video was irresponsible at best. If he bothered to look at the sources he claimed to use, he would have seen first hand accounts nullifying the baseless assertions he made. They’re actually quite infamous for generating a fake controversy (Polin dust-up, M43 is dead spin), gaslighting, and creating clickbait. They seem to do ‘something’ every 2-3 months to gin up headlines. I unsubscribed a while ago because they’re unscrupulous.
Spellchecker is your friend
👍
Do you really think this short audio clip from Steve McCurry will solve the controversy? People on the scene in 1984 said the girl was terrified and did not want her picture taken. Yet McCurry took the shot. Tony also has unclean hands as I think he chose this topic to get clicks on his TH-cam empire.
It was not meant to solve the controversy. It was just one side of the story or at least a part of the story.
@ I am old enough to have read the book "1984" in high school. What is it with the desire to be appointed "artist?" McCurry is a good photographer who got really lucky with one shot.
@@ForsgardPeter Your video is a nothingburger. It is like making a video of Finland in WW 2 and only saying the country fought with the Allies. But the reality is that Finland was also aligned with Germany against Russia during part of the war. This flip flop is the real story.
What's going on here? This is click-bait. Not exactly a journalistic review of what happened...more like a little chat with Steve Curry reminiscing about this, but not really explaining in any detail. Certainly not answering questions. Whoopee. Stick to photography on you channel...with your videos.
What Tony bought up was about the young girls rights and her story and how that was not put into the National Geographic storyline. A pretty face does not give the photographer the right to step on another persons rights as a human being. It's not so much about what Tony said it's about the truth of how the picture came about and if Steve McCurry was honest enough to say yes or no about how the picture truly came about. Just not taking the time to ask the girls name before snapping the picture tells me a lot.
That McCurry took the time to win Gula's trust and confidence to allow him to make a portrait, tells me a lot. That McCurry made a photograph that touched the hearts of millions of people around the world and inspired many to pay attention to the plight of refugees, tells me a lot. That McCurry spent years trying to locate Gula, partnered with Nat Geo to do so, succeeded and made a direct, positive impact on her life and the lives of many Afghans, tells me a lot.
Northrup's version of this story is a fiction and he needs to correct the record.
@@BillFerris "gained her trust"? That look on her face is her anger. He angered her.
@@inpursuitofhappiness4873 you see anger. I see determination. Northrup sees terror.
She trusted him enough to let him make numerous photos, to listen to his requests and cooperate. And when she was done, she went off to play with her friends and McCurry did nothing to stop her.
@@BillFerris She said, "I was angry." The expression on her face comports with her account. Moments earlier, before the persuasion to stop covering her face, she was smiling.
This is 100% about street portrait and journalistic technique.
@@inpursuitofhappiness4873 she's on the record talking about taking pride in the photo and the positive impact it has had on her and others. She was there with her friends. McCurry photographed her friends before working with her. She always had the option to walk away.
You're putting too much faith in the Northrup "abuse & terror" fiction. There's no telling of this story by anyone who was in the room which supports that narrative.
The photo is ok....but let's face it...a photo can only be so good.