I meant Charles Manson twice. Once in Jamul CA a suburb of San Diego. A relative by marriage had just meant him and joined his group. I listened to him talk about the “Ranch” and horses - depicting-in my mind an idyllic setting. He was a very small slight man. He did not impress me at all. I left to go home. I called my brother ( it was his house) the next day. In the conversation I asked what they talked about- he told me Manson spoke for two hours but he couldn’t really say/remember exactly what he said. The Manson group stayed the night -their new member picked up her things from my brother’s house - and they left the next morning. Sometime later due to a newspaper article about the group, we decided to go get the family member feeling they were in harms way. We drove up to Spaun Ranch. It was an old movie set of a dilapidated Western town. Charlie came out of one of the buildings. He had a huge Buck knife( Crocodile Dundee large) in his back pocket.We introduced ourselves and told him we wanted to see our family member. Back and forth conversation went on but it was clear the person wouldn’t be coming back with us. Charlie was the king of the lost and confused. Those searching for something to be a part of. He knew what they wanted and how to bring them in. The family member escaped when they moved to the desert after the murders. This is when they over heard a conversation about the murders. As there were different parts of the group they were not in on this part.
“His father was named Colonel Scott- not a real colonel, that was just his name. He was actually a con artist.” Still trying to get up off the floor after that one.
You probably wont belive it, I myself had a hard time with this, but it seems that in some families they do that kind of stuff. In my country we had a murderer a scandalous story with impact to intern politics, who had "Dr" as part of his given name, so that it appeared to people, who would meet him for the first time, that he was a doctor of some sorts, in reality his first official profession was "pig herder"! 🙃 I was also laughing at first and then musing how it must affect a child to be born in such a family, whose parents would actually do that with the intent to fool people in the future, they could only "use" this sceme as recently as when he was old enough to appear to have finished some education and phd studies... 🤔
@discorperted You mean this chicken guy? His "titel" was assigned to him, wasn't it? I do not know much about him, fast food is not my thing. I was talking about parents, who would set up a baby for deceiving people in the future... that is all. I am sure there are lots of crooked people out there, who do that on a daily basis.👍😉
I spent 32 years working on the wards of state psychiatric hospitals. Whenever I watched television interviews of Manson, I always had the same thought, "This is really impressive,...just like being at work."
@Linda Lonsbury I dont think his childhood was that traumatic, not the best,but who had that?Jeff guinn covered Manson a lot,he didnt think his childhood was that bad either. It sounds like Manson just wanted to blame others& look for sympathy.
There is some evidence that while Manson’s mother was actively prostituting in a chamber he was being beaten. I wonder if they did brain damage? Her Johns made fun of him a lot. I think he had scalp scars that could be seen when Law Enforcement shaved his head in jail. Back in the day if a prisoner had lice they shaved it. I read he was angry when asked about his scars. I think the general quote was something like, “Of course I have scars and I’m going to put scars on society and you too, etc., etc., etc. The whole helter skelter speech, garbage. Once he got started it appears to me he couldn’t refrain until he was completely fatigued. Manson fatigued everyone in his proximity in the west coast.
I read somewhere Manson looked for you g people who were bent but not broken, in my opinion you have to be pretty broken to murder. I would like to see what you have to say about Tex Watson he loved to murder anybody.. devil !!
She sold him for a pitcher of beer when he was a year old. I don’t know why she doesn’t get brought up more. She was the primary reason for his terrible life
Alot of his stories about his mother were lies. He basically was brought up by his grandparents. Genetics played a bigger role for Manson. He was born this way.
Christine Cornez Colmenero they weren’t lies. Biographers and reporters have been going back to West Virginia and investigating this for decades now. Even if some of his claims about his mother and her family seem exaggerated, paper record shows they most likely were true based on documents concerning her criminality , documents proving her later marriages to criminals, alcoholics and probable child molesters, and documents filed BY her through the state surrendering him to these “schools” as a child, which he was only surrendered to at all because she did not want to financially support him as well her and her later husbands alcohol habits. These institutions were notoriously known for child-rape and abuse. You may not have any experience with this type of abuser, institutional systemic abuse or the area of the country he was raised in early on, but for the place and the time period, his claims are not extreme or uncommon, yet he and other kids raised in this environment were and still are expected to grow up and behave normally. The crimes of people like Kathleen Maddox should not be buried in history just because they were not as nationally prolific as the yielding result and of their crimes
Society has made him out to be an exceptional monster, when in reality, he was just a regular monster. A monster with a set of negative traits that any person would be statistically unlikely to overcome. Some people have all the cards stacked against them in this world. It was the inclusion of hallucinogens (mystical, man), the idea of the "happy, loving commune" completely inverted, and the requirement for a catalyst to bookmark the flower-power disillusionment that many people were experiencing, among other things, that allowed this story to become so sensational. A perfect storm of events that allowed a typical anti-social, psychotic man to become a legend. Thank you very much for this one, Dr. Grande. You really nailed it!
Thank you Dr. Grande! I was a junior in HS when this all took place, and remember it vividly. I grew up in an extremely violent home, and the thing that really got to me was the look in Manson's eyes whenever he was interview. It was the same exact way that my mother looked at me when she was gearing up for another beating. I mean exactly the same look - no remorse, no pity, just dead eyed fury. It was terrifying to make that connection. So again, thank you for your thorough research into such a horrifying piece of history. There was so much hype surrounding it at the time.
@@teresahowick5197 thank you for your kind words. I am old now, and it was all long ago. I have done a great deal of healing from all that happened these past few years, and I am now happy and at peace for the first time in my life. I really am okay. Bless your heart for taking the time to reply.
Oh, honey, my family is fucked but not that fucked. I was married to a psychopath for 6 months tho, so can *only* imagine what it must have been growing up with a psychopathic mother. You poor darling. I do hope you have found some peace now in your mind, body and soul 🙏
@@Herr.P you must watch "The fall" ,if you already haven't. Sadly only 2 out of 3 seasons on Netflix. The third you have to find it elswhere but it's definately worth it.
He took advantage of the time and place there in California in the 60’s. A lot of young and dumb kids/young adults were migrating to California in that time with the hippie movement. The drugs flowed freely like water. Easy to see how he was able to brainwash them and do his desires.
It's 3PM in Holland, time to lean backwards with a cup of coffee ☕ for a brand new video of our doctor. I'm always so curious, what's it going to be about today. Thanks for doing so many vids, Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
Hi Dr Grande, I always found that a guy like Manson, couldn’t have become infamous had this not been in the time those crimes happened. The shock for people was who was murdered, celebrities! And a beautiful, ready to give birth actress most shocking of all. There’s been many horrifying murders of pregnant women, as well as murders motivated by the theft of the unborn baby. But NOT a celebrity. This cemented Manson into history. I was born in 62, and now looking back the 60-70s were SO different from today, those not around at the time can’t understand the appeal of a person like Manson. He was very small, uneducated and unskilled, a career criminal certainly not good looking in a traditional sense, so who in their right mind was impressed with him, on any level let alone enough to go on a two night grizzly murder spree? Manson, because of being a product of the juvenile and adult penal system, HAD to survive. He sure as hell wasn’t going to do it by brute strength. He learned the art of survival through being manipulative. I’m sure he was even likable, and had a sense of humor. He was intelligent, and honed it all into base survival behind bars. When he did get out, he found himself in an era of free love, self discovery, women’s rights, minority rights, not to mention anti war demonstrations, an entire generation wanting a complete break from the social constraints that permeated the 50s. Everything looked and felt different when he got out. He could blend into the artistic hippy community easily. And there was always someone looking to “believe” in a better way if life. So long as it was radically different than what they grew up with, anything was open. The mainly teenage girls he met along the way were at a distinct disadvantage to a career criminal. I’m sure he WAS manipulative. Honestly how hard would it have been to manipulate a bunch of teens who knew nothing but a cushy middle class upbringing? Not hard at all. He was a musician as well, a BIG appeal in those days! Notice the absence of an equal amount of guys? He needed a few guys, but they weren’t so easily impressed. He used all the girls to get the couple of guys he needed around, mainly for muscle. I think he was leader naturally because he was so much older, more life experience and really spoke against the conservative 50s style life that sent him to prison. These girls weren’t lured from their homes, they were all ready run aways, looking to replace their families so to speak. I think before all the “us against the world talk” and the military style training they engaged in, they were no different than any group of friends that chose to live together and pool their resources. There’s always those that tend to be in charge or the leaders. Throw in hallucinogenic drugs and lots of weed, not hard at all to weave an image, that these teens wanted to believe. He did want to be a signed, known musician, even though he denied that. As much as I believe he did talk of the eventual race war coming (which was why the military style training started), and he made a big story if it, that all came out of being incarcerated most of his life. It’s common knowledge prisons are separated racially, by the prisoners choice. Seems to me he just needed reasons to isolate them all from society, and this unoriginal prison style race separation made sense to him. To these non prison experienced teens, it was an original idea. I think he had these teens convinced they had to go far from the city, because of this eventual race war. In reality he had to get out of the city because he’d been involved in crimes. namely the murder of Gary Hinman, over drugs, and his fear of getting caught by the biker gang he owed money to.
E Rust I agree with your points/comments more than Dr. Grande’s. He was institutionalized, he was manipulative, he had the allure of guitar playing and singing, these girls were run always from middle class, however were not having orgies all the time and taking copious amounts of psychedelics when they met Manson, and totally were influenced and manipulated to take on that lifestyle . Great synopsis !
Ya have a good point about the celebrity issue causing media to go extra wild. You also have a very good point about the hippie era that was going on in his time.
Great points, I was born in 75' but I grew up watching ALL the TV interviews Manson did, and I always thought and still do his "craziness" was just a farce and act. I think he actually was smarter than he wanted people to believe. I also think he got railroaded in his trial. Manson never had a chance because of his record. To the general population he was an idiot who deserved what he got, to be thrown in jail and the keys lost. However, Manson didn't kill no one on that fateful August 8, 1969 night. He wasn't even there. The whole "cult leader," "brain-washing" "they" said he done was the easy way out. Manson probably never judged, never cared what anyone did so long as they weren't bothering him. He got rail-roaded and portrayed as the crazy man, so that's what he gave us. In the end, a very sad and unfulfilled life he lived.
@@sydramars7065 No, this is dangerous, easily exploited. The opportunities for genocide when this is applied is too great. Ultimately, whether you like it or not, they are just as human as you are. This is not to say we shouldn't do something about it but absolute control is certainly not the way to go.
In the interviews I have watched, Manson seems to be playing up for the camera. It was almost as if he was overacting the role of Manson or what he thought we imagined him to be because the real Manson was no one special. But the Manson that everyone was talking about, the one who could get on TV and have books written about him, did matter. So long as we were paying him attention, he was somebody.
True. Manson was always trying to impress people. Very much like the dude on Mindhunter, a show-off. He told a writer I know, "If I had it to do over, I'd have just stayed on the Ranch and not killed anybody."
He played their game and gave them good tv and he always asked for a favor in return. It sucks that most will not educate themselves before forming an opinion about someone and spreading what they think might be somewhat true
There is tape of him of him being normal - nicolas schrek tapes - talking on the phone, and he just sounds like a normal, though intelligent, dirt baggy white dude. Also sounds a little sensitive.
There was a book that came out just a few years ago written by one of their mother's. It was very interesting. It made one feel sorry for these boys in a way but of course, that's a mother's p.o.v
@@h.borter5367 those kids did not have it that bad. Feel sorry for the victims and their parents. I know one of them, Tom Mauser, and he has to constantly hear about how sad his kid's murderer had it. Meanwhile his kid was picked on and nobody cares so much because he didn't murder.
Manson was a failed artist as well.. he worked with one of the beach boys. He released a record too. Beware of the failed artists !! Their vengeance can be terrible..
Nixon spouted to the press at the time of the ongoing trial, he thought Manson was guilty. This remark poisoned the existing jury and the jury pool for any future trial. This "verdict" by Nixon was unconstitutional and as a lawyer, should have known better.
How fascinating- I have never heard the argument that Manson wasn't the mastermind behind the Family. He is typically painted as a skilled manipulator who drew in these young people with his charisma and I am genuinely surprised to hear a counter claim. Thank you so much for this video!
I remember once reading a really long web page about the Manson case and how Manson might not be "as guilty" as people make him out to be. Sadly, I have no idea what that site was called and if it's even up anymore. Still, it was a pretty interesting read. I think it was mostly about how all the other family members just blamed everything on Manson in order to get shorter sentences/ not being senteced at all. There's also a theory that he never killed anyone nor told anybody else to kill, making him completely innocent when it comes to the family murders. If there's any truth to that, then Manson could be one of the most unnecessarily hated men in the US.
Manson as the mastermind was the prosecution theory and unfortunately I think Manson was sick enough in the head to go along with just about anything. If you look at the facts, Manson wasn’t present during any of the murders
Thank you for your assessment Dr. Grande. I was not aware of many of the details of Manson life. Earlier this week while watching a brief documentary (Skinner) on the life of Doris Day I learned that Terry Melcher, American record producer, singer & songwriter (and the actress only son) was the man Manson was looking to find after hving procured his help (and been turned down) in getting his music career off the ground. However, by that time Melcher had moved out of the home and rented it to actress Sharon Tate and movie director Roman Polanski. Their murder might have been a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
unlikely random as commonly said to have been. new book with old facts by Tom O'neill - particularly an electricians statement about breaking damage done to the Tate house that was similar to damage done to the.. Jay Sebring... or the Folgers heiresses house (cant remember of top of my head) on the same night the Tates were visiting about a week prior. Anyway. peace.
Very interesting analysis. I’ve always thought of Manson as a narcissist. He knew how to tell his young female followers what they needed to hear. I see him as the ultimate con artist. That’s just based on accounts of his followers. He was a product of his environment.
There is a lot not mentioned here which would point to someone beyond a narcissist: his histories of manipulating his grandparents, each of his marriages which included pimping his wives, as well as his manipulations of The Beach Boys --Dennis Wilson in particular--to get him so close to his pop music career. When it didn't happen, his extreme rage at Dennis and Terry Melcher, to the point that Dennis left the country. The Cielo Drive house had been Terry Melcher's house, where he lived with Candace Bergen. When Bergen found out that Melcher had refused to sign Manson, Bergen INSISTED the change residence, phone numbers, quickly and on the quiet; she could imagine what Manson would be like when thwarted. Indeed, when Manson went to Cielo Dr. to try to find them, he asked a guy who was there if the "pretty, blonde lady" still lived there---his description of Bergen suites Tate equally well.
I tend to agree with what you're saying. I'm not an expert, but I have read a lot about Manson and seen many interviews with him and the women. I've also seen some court footage. It always seemed to me that the mythology surrounding Manson happened because of the context. The time period, the place, the culture, the political climate, even the music. All of these things created an environment where Manson and then girls he met were able to build momentum so to speak. Certain things in history just happened to have the right "ingredients" and probably would never or could never happen the same way again. Had Manson been slithering around Haight Ashbury today, he may have just been seen as a mumbling vagabond with no group of followers. I think he was just a catalyst and then a symbol of the entire climate during that time. The people he met who ended up following him and committing the murders were probably already looking for something and he became the symbol.
A particularly good analysis. I never look at this situation in that way. The people he attracted came from relatively normal families. The culture at the time with music and drugs played a strong role in his attractiveness. He offered a place to hangout with the all the liberties that come with it. The sex with anyone at anytime mentality helped him make associations with people like Dennis Wilson. I was 13 14 at the time so much younger than you, but I remember the culture ( survived it because I was too young and my parents would never let me go anywhere ).
why do you say that's why you survived it?. no opinion just asking.-- as opposed to not surviving it that is. I understand what you mean about age but is that to say that if you had been 20 you would have not 'survived' and if so ho do you mean?. individually or as a general risk or both?. just wonder what you mean. no judgment. nor view yet. thats why i ask.
Wow. Very fresh look at the case. Thank you. Won't make me feel bad when those now-70 plus year women are denied parole. They wanted to kill as much as he did.
He was hustling people out of change at the local grocery store as a small child. No big deal in and of itself. He convinced a group of girls to beat up a boy he didn't like in grade school--a portent of bigger things to come down the road. It truly would have taken a village to socialize Charles; that village wasn't there. His early years were largely characterized by an extremely unstable family life, including losing his mother to prolonged incarceration as a child, which would destabilize just about anyone--especially someone without a father. It was a mess. I think Charlie was always just being Charlie, the only way he knew how. He tried to settle down into the "straight" world briefly, but I think the boredom and frustration were overwhelming. I do feel that he was charismatic, as well as highly manipulative and self-aggrandizing. I also believe that he was obsessed with fame and wanted to achieve it. He did.
Well said. I agree. He is very charismatic. I married a man who may or may not have killed people, he told me he had, but he definitely went out at night to go to bars and would come home covered in blood. Never his own, mind you, always some poor backpacker's. He was a fruit loop but that charm, it was like a button he could switch on. A very scary man.
@@KaiLucasZachary He was friends with the police!!!! He was Thai. I have spoken to other Thai people and thev told me that where he was living was all Mafia run.
Dr.Grande I would love to hear your take on a less known and much more recent killer: Randy Stair aka Andrew Blaze, the Weiss Market Shooter. He shared dozens of hours worth of a "manifesto", claimed he was a transwoman (even though Andrew was a name he chose for himself), and created a disturbing cartoon series on youtube that was a ripoff of a character from the children's show Danny Phantom. I agree that Manson wasn't that special and the media made him out to be much more of a criminal mastermind than he actually was--if he was a mastermind I don't think he would have gotten caught so easily Also the actor who played Manson in Mindhunters did an exceptionally good job, I must say.
Hi Dr.G, I'm a crimementary lol crime/documentary on him.I remember he died in prison in his eighties. I prefer this episode, you started at the beginning which made more sense to me, congrats.Take care and thanks.
Hi Dr. Grande, when I first heard about Manson someone was describing him as some kind of mastermind. Then I read about what he actually did and I now consider him one of the most overrated criminals of all times (overrated in a dark way), great video. I really love the format of your videos, I'm always waiting for your "diagnostic" but I also enjoy how you tell the story and your sense of humor. If you whatched the TV show, I would like to know what are your thoughts about Tony Soprano, I think it's an interesting topic because you could also tell us what you think about his therapy, the aproach of his therapist (also, if it's realistic) and their relationship. Thanks Dr. Big!
Yes! When you asked the question:was he the mastermind? I initially said Yes,but after listening to your analogy I quickly seen how he was Delusional Thinking and the group bought into it; thus together they formed that Cult. Thanks Dr G.
This is really fascinating because I always thought Manson was extremely charismatic. Or atleast that’s how he is always described as, but when you think about it, all his “family” members were already pretty vulnerable. They were mostly runaways still searching for their sense of identity. On top of that, drugs probably didn’t help as well. Great stuff doc.
You have the BEST topics too! Every famous case that I am interested in and have followed for years. Stay as FAB as you are and thanks for everything! ❤️
Dr. Grande, maybe you once like doing a topic about 'Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria'? It's not in the DSM (yet), but it would be great if you explain and talk about it, from a scientific view and your own thoughts and experiences with this phenomenal. Most people are concerned with being liked at one point or another. So many of us wish we don't care what others think, and yet, it's virtually impossible not to at least care a bit (or else you might probably even develop SPD or so). Thanks again doc 😃🇳🇱
RaymonD my Father murdered my Mother in 2006 and then killed himself. You learn to live with it. But some people can be beyond cruel by the way they judge you
@@naturegirl9680 Damn. Sorry you had to go through that in your life. It is so hard I know. I know what it's like to be the survivor of loved one's suicide, which is hard enough, and I know of attempted murders within my family circle, but never had to live thru the loss of someone by a loved one's murder.
Thanks for this. I've never understood the reverence people seemed, and still seem to some extent, to hold him in. Watching interviews with him always left me with one impression - he was an asshole. A deeply unpleasant individual with no redeeming features whatsoever. Not a big man in any way at all, just a wee scrote.
I totally agree,leslie van houten said she wasnt even attracted to him her boyfriend was bobby.why would she do such a stupid thing.he didnt even ask her to go the next night,she begged to go.i truly believe shes the craziest out of all of them.they also thought they'd be out in 7 years.thanks to all the governors who have denied them parole. 2 down 3 to go.
You forgot to mention how during one of his tenures between reform school and prison he was sent to live with an uncle who was a white supremacist/Nazi who hated blacks, Jews, anyone who was different (rich people, too); he had Nazi paraphernalia and magazines and a poster of Hitler in a school bus he and his cult had appropriated. One of the theories for the LaBianca murders was that he was looking for the home of a black man he had had a run-in with a few months earlier (he believed the man to be part of the Black Panthers) and wanted to finish the job, but couldn't remember the address. He instructed Kasabian to take Rosemary LaBianca's wallet and leave it in a public restroom so a black man would find it, use it, then be arrested for the crime. He also took Atkins and Kasabian out for hot fudge sundaes while 3 others from the group slaughtered the LaBiancas. He was also there for the three-day torture and murder of musician Gary Hinman. He was the one who took the sword and cut off Hinman's ear (which Atkins sewed back on) because he wanted the inheritance Hinman had received. He was a manipulative b*stard (literally and figuratively) who told his followers what they wanted to hear (many of whom came from broken/dysfunctional families) and gave them LSD to probe their minds and find out their deepest, darkest secrets. He DID shoot and kill Shorty Shea. He also threatened the manager at the Whiskey-A-Go-Go, and promptly got his butt beat and tossed out of the establishment. I don't believe that the prosecution was as dirty as you made it out to be. This was a whole new kind of murder case that had never been tried before. Yeah, there were some deals made, but Atkins changed her story and refused to testify. Ronald Hughes, his lawyer, was replaced by Irving Kanarek and went on to represent Van Houten, and then was ultimately murdered to show the judge and jury that no one was safe. It was also used as a tool to help free the defendants. Even from his jail cell, he was able to send a message to the women, which led them to shave their heads and carve X's into their foreheads. That is a level of manipulation that ranks up there with Jim Jones and Hitler. In fact, the similarities between the three monsters are weird and scary. He was a sociopath, a narcissist, a manipulator; he would have been the man Hitler would have loved to have by his side. He was a dual personality--a man who preached love and togetherness and family but had NEVER experienced any of it for himself. He hated himself (which is one of the most dangerous kinds of people), and he hated society for "branding" him from birth. Society, not he, was the root of all evil. He is the classic case of literally falling thru the cracks too many times to count. Could that happen today? Probably, but I doubt to the same extreme. Edit: I forgot to mention that he was a misogynist of the highest order. He didn't just think he was better than a woman, he absolutely hated, despised, and loathed women. He truly believed that women were subservient to him and deserved to spend their lives on their knees. He viewed himself as a lord and master of women. Even in his ABC interview, he addresses Diane Sawyer as "WOMAN!" a derogatory term meant to lesser her place and purpose. Look at it from that point of view and you will see him differently. Look, I'm no expert on him, the "family", or the case. However, I have done my research and jumped into the deep end when looking into theories from both sides. I was born on 08 August 1969 and have an eerie and weird connection to that day in history. I'm not trying to say you're wrong in your analysis, but the layers on him were plentiful and very sinister. One last thing: At Boys Town, where he stayed (for a brief, brief, BRIEF while) and had his photograph in the newspaper during his welcome by Father Flanagan, they have a motto: "There is no such thing as a bad boy"; I would say that he shot that theory to hell.
Thank you, well done. Dr. Grande could you do an analysis of Rev. Jim Jones, did he gradually slide into mental problems or were they always bad from the start?. He is a prime example of why never to blindly follow any charismatic leaders, Thanks in advance, I appreciate all your good work.
I'm glad you chose to look at CM. I've read the book 'Helter Skelter' written by the lawyer who prosecuted and broke the case. That is a fascinating and harrowing book!
Dr. Grande, I always enjoy and learn from your videos. I agree with you that Manson was obviously severely and dangerously psychopathic, and your review of his genetic loading and horrible upbringing is very helpful and instructive. I have also watched his interviews and I agree with your sense that he looks psychotic based on his thought disorganization, incongruent/odd affect, bizarre beliefs. The only place I disagree with you is about how you discuss the question of whether or not his influence on others should be attributed to unusual talents or giftedness. I think that the Manson Family was in fact a cult, albeit a small one. I think that all cult leaders possess some sort of special manipulative charisma. You mention Shared Psychotic Disorder and I agree that it was a factor in the Manson murder spree. But they way I understand the classic scenario of Folie A Deux is that it is basically a cult with one leader and one member. Manson had about 30 members who he was able to infect with his insane delusional fantasies. His use of psychedelics was part of his manipulation no doubt, but there is some sort of creepy charisma that he possessed, without which I don't think he'd have recruited and brainwashed these cult members. - Andrew B. Klafter MD, Cincinnati OH (Psychiatrist and Psychoanalyst).
@@gaylebaker8419 He definitely must have learned how to read in prision. He talks well articulated on quite philosophical stuff although vauge. Narcissist aren't againts learning. They just skim enough information until they can confidently make up the rest when they need too. They distort facts and information to suit their agendas.
He was diabolically smart sometimes. I remember once seeing him interviewed and he said (I paraphrase): "All they said I did was tell some other people to commit murder....try to steal someone's credit card and buy something big and then say somebody else told you to steal that card and see who they arrest and put away!" I had to admit he had a somewhat valid point....LOL
Short but great video, as usual! The podcast series Young Charlie by Wondery (Hollywood & Crime) provides a deep dive in Mason’s life and crimes and also in the lives of some of his main followers. Worth the time!
I can get on board with this analysis - I have always wondered why he was put on a pedestal, and in every documentary or interview he doesn't really seem to be special in any way, just crazy. And the people who "followed" him were equally as crazy, and it all escalated, seems more plausible to me :)
Every time Dr. Todd rattles off OCEAN, I try to say it with him. Alone in a NYC studio apartment during a pandemic. Binge watching dr. Todd. Thanks, Doc!!!
As always an interesting video. I am a med student my self, and i am intertaining the idea of becomming a psychiatrist when i graduate. I Think it would be very interesting to hear some more thoughts on psychiatry in generel, why you chose to become a psychiatrist and the pros and cons of working with mentally ill. Thank you again for your good work .
Sometimes when I listen to Dr. Grande I have to rewind and check if I truly heard what I think I heard. I love it how his facial expression doesn't change at all and there is no indication whether what is being said is a joke. I wonder how he'd analyse his own behaviour? That'd be a fun episode :)
When I was in my doctoral degree program in psychology, one of my professors described Charles Manson as an "undiagnosed schizophrenic." Whether this is accurate is arguable. There is no doubt that Manson was the biggest loser in terms of the "nature vs. nurture" argument. His use of drugs probably did not help his mental and cognitive functioning. I love your OCEAN personality profile acronym. Thank you so much for your analysis.
He was diagnosed with schizophrenia by at least one psychiatrist. It seemed like he had mild schizophrenic traits but he wasn’t completely enveloped by it.
Suggestion: The Eriksson twins. I know it's not the first time I've requested that you please look into if there's some underlying psychological reasons, that could explain their behavior about a decade ago in the UK, especially why both of them ran out into traffic on a motorway.
Yes I agree. Please do one on the Eriksson twins. That video of them and interviews later with them never explained what was going on with them mentally. I would love to hear a in-depth psychological analysis of them
I wouldn't be able to watch that, I have twin phobia. When I was a kid, around 8 if I remember correctly, some twins played a trick on me by not informing me that they were one of a twin. I thought there was just one with a Multiple Personality Disorder. So, whenever I meet a twin I generally make an excuse to leave. Funny, I'm ok with triplets and quads.
He started in life as “no name” Manson. His teen mom sold him for a pitcher of beer. He was sent to his aunt and uncle. His aunt screamed about God all the time. His dad left when he was really young. The inept parenting probably led to his unstable behavior.
Yes but if u think about it Manson didn't actually kill anyone himself he ordered others to do it. . So how unstable was the upbringing of those who obliged?
Hey Dr Grande, great video. A much neglected topic in regards to Manson are his links to various occult organizations. He used to say to his followers: “Let's do something witchy”. In fact his “Helter Skelter” plan to incite a race war may have been inspired by his association with the early California Agape Lodge of the Ordo Templi Orientis in which Manson was briefly a low level member. Jack Parsons was the leader of that lodge and they believed that the apocalypse was coming and that social chaos would bring the downfall of civilization and the new “Age of Horus”. How much effect this had on Manson is anyone's guess, but it couldn't have been beneficial.
I remember watching the news during the summer of 69, and during the trials. It impressed me that when Manson would do something the group of girls who hung out in front of the courthouse would do it too. Like when he shaved his head bald, the next day the girls would be bald, or when he branded a swastika into his forehead so did they. I have always felt that they committed the murders willingly, but it was because Manson wanted them to. They would do whatever he wanted them to, plain and simple.
the street Sharon Tate lived on Cielo drive, Cielo means Heaven in spanish. that always stuck with me& great video!also, i remember his parole officer was interviewed and said Manson when released begged NOT to be released in 1967.
Interesting as always! Just a minor request. To me it would've been helpful if you would've added the actual age of Manson when you told about his background, not just what year this and that happened. Of course it's simple mathematics, but I had to stop the video to figure out how old he was when different things occurred. Anyway, thank you so much for your work. I learn a lot!
Best analysis of Manson ever! And I've pretty much heard them all,those of any note anyway. I've always thought Manson was no more sane or insane than anyone else that spent 99% of their life any prison. One thing most people will never understand also,he spoke in a really...disjointed profanity heavy prison slang language that sounds like nonsense to most people, unless maybe they've known someone that's done a lot of prison time. And when he did interviews he poured that on thick as hell to intentionally mess with people,because what else did he have to pass the time,they took his guitar lol
What I find interesting about your analysis towards the end, is that it flies in the face of what the members have said over the years, that nothing was done if it was not decreed by Manson first. Could it be a combination of the followers, with weaker personalities, looking for a leader? And Manson, with his Helter Skelter style, found a perfect match? Your analysis is definitely interesting and I would mind hearing more from you about this tale, which has so many layers to it. It definitely affected our culture. A 60s Catcher in the Rye, if you will, with a much more deadly outcome.
Another interesting study of an iconic deviant. I have to ask though, can examining characters of greatness (like Churchill or Napoleon as an example) be as intriguing? Thanks again
Finally! I've been waiting for your take on Manson and I'm not disappointed. I have always thought he was this genius manipulator and leader but now have some other food for thought.
Very interesting take. I spent a lot of time reading books on this case. I think Dr. Grande is right on with his assessment. Manson was no "Mastermind" or "Cult Leader." That theory seems to have been an invention of the Prosecutor (Vincent Bugliosi).
It went around, It was part of the scene. Manson was manipulated too. "They were all digging the vibes they were getting off of each other, and it got carried away ?"
Please do NXIVM cult leader Keith Raniere (maybe Allison Mack as well)?! Also, Bobbi Beuasoliel was the only male associated with The Family who had any charisma. Mason was incredibly jealous of Beausoliel (who is in prison for the Gary Hinman Murder)
I meant Charles Manson twice. Once in Jamul CA a suburb of San Diego. A relative by marriage had just meant him and joined his group. I listened to him talk about the “Ranch” and horses - depicting-in my mind an idyllic setting. He was a very small slight man. He did not impress me at all. I left to go home. I called my brother ( it was his house) the next day. In the conversation I asked what they talked about- he told me Manson spoke for two hours but he couldn’t really say/remember exactly what he said. The Manson group stayed the night -their new member picked up her things from my brother’s house - and they left the next morning. Sometime later due to a newspaper article about the group, we decided to go get the family member feeling they were in harms way. We drove up to Spaun Ranch. It was an old movie set of a dilapidated Western town. Charlie came out of one of the buildings. He had a huge Buck knife( Crocodile Dundee large) in his back pocket.We introduced ourselves and told him we wanted to see our family member. Back and forth conversation went on but it was clear the person wouldn’t be coming back with us. Charlie was the king of the lost and confused. Those searching for something to be a part of. He knew what they wanted and how to bring them in. The family member escaped when they moved to the desert after the murders. This is when they over heard a conversation about the murders. As there were different parts of the group they were not in on this part.
Thanks for sharing g.
An amazing period of time
“His father was named Colonel Scott- not a real colonel, that was just his name. He was actually a con artist.”
Still trying to get up off the floor after that one.
Mishta Romaniello 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Mishta Romaniello 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😆😆😆😆😆
You probably wont belive it, I myself had a hard time with this, but it seems that in some families they do that kind of stuff. In my country we had a murderer a scandalous story with impact to intern politics, who had "Dr" as part of his given name, so that it appeared to people, who would meet him for the first time, that he was a doctor of some sorts, in reality his first official profession was "pig herder"! 🙃 I was also laughing at first and then musing how it must affect a child to be born in such a family, whose parents would actually do that with the intent to fool people in the future, they could only "use" this sceme as recently as when he was old enough to appear to have finished some education and phd studies... 🤔
@discorperted You mean this chicken guy? His "titel" was assigned to him, wasn't it? I do not know much about him, fast food is not my thing.
I was talking about parents, who would set up a baby for deceiving people in the future... that is all. I am sure there are lots of crooked people out there, who do that on a daily basis.👍😉
I spent 32 years working on the wards of state psychiatric hospitals. Whenever I watched television interviews of Manson, I always had the same thought, "This is really impressive,...just like being at work."
Co dependent people were drawn to him with a mixture of already mini Manson’s in the making. It’s a deadly combination no matter what. Great topic!
@m norton buswell "woo-age." Fascinating.
@Linda Lonsbury I dont think his childhood was that traumatic, not the best,but who had that?Jeff guinn covered Manson a lot,he didnt think his childhood was that bad either. It sounds like Manson just wanted to blame others& look for sympathy.
There is some evidence that while Manson’s mother was actively prostituting in a chamber he was being beaten. I wonder if they did brain damage? Her Johns made fun of him a lot. I think he had scalp scars that could be seen when Law Enforcement shaved his head in jail. Back in the day if a prisoner had lice they shaved it. I read he was angry when asked about his scars. I think the general quote was something like, “Of course I have scars and I’m going to put scars on society and you too, etc., etc., etc. The whole helter skelter speech, garbage. Once he got started it appears to me he couldn’t refrain until he was completely fatigued. Manson fatigued everyone in his proximity in the west coast.
I read somewhere Manson looked for you g people who were bent but not broken, in my opinion you have to be pretty broken to murder. I would like to see what you have to say about Tex Watson he loved to murder anybody.. devil !!
Manson could single out those who were codependent like a predator.
She sold him for a pitcher of beer when he was a year old. I don’t know why she doesn’t get brought up more. She was the primary reason for his terrible life
Im a bum a weirdo a loser everything you want me to be.
Alot of his stories about his mother were lies. He basically was brought up by his grandparents. Genetics played a bigger role for Manson. He was born this way.
@@christinecornezcolmenero9356 I agree. Some persons just have different wiring.
Christine Cornez Colmenero they weren’t lies. Biographers and reporters have been going back to West Virginia and investigating this for decades now. Even if some of his claims about his mother and her family seem exaggerated, paper record shows they most likely were true based on documents concerning her criminality , documents proving her later marriages to criminals, alcoholics and probable child molesters, and documents filed BY her through the state surrendering him to these “schools” as a child, which he was only surrendered to at all because she did not want to financially support him as well her and her later husbands alcohol habits. These institutions were notoriously known for child-rape and abuse. You may not have any experience with this type of abuser, institutional systemic abuse or the area of the country he was raised in early on, but for the place and the time period, his claims are not extreme or uncommon, yet he and other kids raised in this environment were and still are expected to grow up and behave normally. The crimes of people like Kathleen Maddox should not be buried in history just because they were not as nationally prolific as the yielding result and of their crimes
th-cam.com/video/StK3oFcLWeU/w-d-xo.html well sourced and something every parent should watch for serious education purposes
Society has made him out to be an exceptional monster, when in reality, he was just a regular monster. A monster with a set of negative traits that any person would be statistically unlikely to overcome. Some people have all the cards stacked against them in this world. It was the inclusion of hallucinogens (mystical, man), the idea of the "happy, loving commune" completely inverted, and the requirement for a catalyst to bookmark the flower-power disillusionment that many people were experiencing, among other things, that allowed this story to become so sensational. A perfect storm of events that allowed a typical anti-social, psychotic man to become a legend.
Thank you very much for this one, Dr. Grande. You really nailed it!
YES!!! DR GRANDE TIME! Came here as fast as I could!!!
Thank you Dr. Grande! I was a junior in HS when this all took place, and remember it vividly. I grew up in an extremely violent home, and the thing that really got to me was the look in Manson's eyes whenever he was interview. It was the same exact way that my mother looked at me when she was gearing up for another beating. I mean exactly the same look - no remorse, no pity, just dead eyed fury. It was terrifying to make that connection. So again, thank you for your thorough research into such a horrifying piece of history. There was so much hype surrounding it at the time.
Jan McLain I’m so sorry you lived through all that hell. That’s awful. Scary that your mom and Manson had the same look.
@@teresahowick5197 thank you for your kind words. I am old now, and it was all long ago. I have done a great deal of healing from all that happened these past few years, and I am now happy and at peace for the first time in my life. I really am okay. Bless your heart for taking the time to reply.
Bless you sweet J
Demonic spirits ....... many people have them
Oh, honey, my family is fucked but not that fucked. I was married to a psychopath for 6 months tho, so can *only* imagine what it must have been growing up with a psychopathic mother. You poor darling. I do hope you have found some peace now in your mind, body and soul 🙏
Soon we'll have an analysis of every killer featured in Mindhunter, nice.
Only reason I subscribed to netflix.
@@Herr.P you must watch "The fall" ,if you already haven't. Sadly only 2 out of 3 seasons on Netflix. The third you have to find it elswhere but it's definately worth it.
Charalampos Katsogr I live in the US and searched the title on Netflix, nothing happened...
@The Senate Yeah I know but its hard to find.
@@Dlovesyou1 www.imdb.com/title/tt2294189/
This is what I'm talking about. I live in the EU, maybe that's why.
Going to get a coffee and listen to this. Stay safe. ( from a very wet UK) 💕
I always thought Manson was an idiot, but this is the first time I’ve ever heard a professional think that. Amazing analysis!
He was ahead on his time with an IQ of 121 !
@@Taiyou536 yea...and you believe that??? Most smart people at work at dumb f!@#$
He took advantage of the time and place there in California in the 60’s. A lot of young and dumb kids/young adults were migrating to California in that time with the hippie movement. The drugs flowed freely like water. Easy to see how he was able to brainwash them and do his desires.
Maybe you thought that because he has not an emotional intelligence but he was really smart.
@@Gladyslm. Oh, he had plenty of emotional intelligence. How do you think he pulled all of that psychological and sociological stuff off?
It's 3PM in Holland, time to lean backwards with a cup of coffee ☕ for a brand new video of our doctor. I'm always so curious, what's it going to be about today. Thanks for doing so many vids, Dr. Grande 😃🇳🇱
pocoeagle2 - It’s 9pm here in my part of Australia 🇦🇺 Dr Grande, getting the world through isolation across the timezones 😆
Well Ben while you have your afternoon coffee with Dr. Grande, I have my second morning cup of coffee with him everyday:)😊
@@rejaneoliveira5019 I believe you have :-)
Holland..the land of tulips, as my father always said 😁
Hi Dr Grande,
I always found that a guy like Manson, couldn’t have become infamous had this not been in the time those crimes happened. The shock for people was who was murdered, celebrities! And a beautiful, ready to give birth actress most shocking of all. There’s been many horrifying murders of pregnant women, as well as murders motivated by the theft of the unborn baby. But NOT a celebrity. This cemented Manson into history.
I was born in 62, and now looking back the 60-70s were SO different from today, those not around at the time can’t understand the appeal of a person like Manson. He was very small, uneducated and unskilled, a career criminal certainly not good looking in a traditional sense, so who in their right mind was impressed with him, on any level let alone enough to go on a two night grizzly murder spree?
Manson, because of being a product of the juvenile and adult penal system, HAD to survive. He sure as hell wasn’t going to do it by brute strength. He learned the art of survival through being manipulative. I’m sure he was even likable, and had a sense of humor. He was intelligent, and honed it all into base survival behind bars.
When he did get out, he found himself in an era of free love, self discovery, women’s rights, minority rights, not to mention anti war demonstrations, an entire generation wanting a complete break from the social constraints that permeated the 50s. Everything looked and felt different when he got out. He could blend into the artistic hippy community easily. And there was always someone looking to “believe” in a better way if life. So long as it was radically different than what they grew up with, anything was open.
The mainly teenage girls he met along the way were at a distinct disadvantage to a career criminal. I’m sure he WAS manipulative. Honestly how hard would it have been to manipulate a bunch of teens who knew nothing but a cushy middle class upbringing? Not hard at all. He was a musician as well, a BIG appeal in those days!
Notice the absence of an equal amount of guys? He needed a few guys, but they weren’t so easily impressed. He used all the girls to get the couple of guys he needed around, mainly for muscle.
I think he was leader naturally because he was so much older, more life experience and really spoke against the conservative 50s style life that sent him to prison. These girls weren’t lured from their homes, they were all ready run aways, looking to replace their families so to speak. I think before all the “us against the world talk” and the military style training they engaged in, they were no different than any group of friends that chose to live together and pool their resources. There’s always those that tend to be in charge or the leaders.
Throw in hallucinogenic drugs and lots of weed, not hard at all to weave an image, that these teens wanted to believe.
He did want to be a signed, known musician, even though he denied that. As much as I believe he did talk of the eventual race war coming (which was why the military style training started), and he made a big story if it, that all came out of being incarcerated most of his life. It’s common knowledge prisons are separated racially, by the prisoners choice. Seems to me he just needed reasons to isolate them all from society, and this unoriginal prison style race separation made sense to him. To these non prison experienced teens, it was an original idea.
I think he had these teens convinced they had to go far from the city, because of this eventual race war. In reality he had to get out of the city because he’d been involved in crimes. namely the murder of Gary Hinman, over drugs, and his fear of getting caught by the biker gang he owed money to.
E Rust I agree with your points/comments more than Dr. Grande’s. He was institutionalized, he was manipulative, he had the allure of guitar playing and singing, these girls were run always from middle class, however were not having orgies all the time and taking copious amounts of psychedelics when they met Manson, and totally were influenced and manipulated to take on that lifestyle . Great synopsis !
Ya have a good point about the celebrity issue causing media to go extra wild. You also have a very good point about the hippie era that was going on in his time.
Hey what do u think about Tom o Neal's book saying Manson was a agent provocateur
E RUST YOU GOT IT RIGHT.!!!!
Great points, I was born in 75' but I grew up watching ALL the TV interviews Manson did, and I always thought and still do his "craziness" was just a farce and act. I think he actually was smarter than he wanted people to believe. I also think he got railroaded in his trial. Manson never had a chance because of his record. To the general population he was an idiot who deserved what he got, to be thrown in jail and the keys lost. However, Manson didn't kill no one on that fateful August 8, 1969 night. He wasn't even there. The whole "cult leader," "brain-washing" "they" said he done was the easy way out. Manson probably never judged, never cared what anyone did so long as they weren't bothering him. He got rail-roaded and portrayed as the crazy man, so that's what he gave us. In the end, a very sad and unfulfilled life he lived.
Some people should never have kids
Most
There should be some qualifiers in place before people are allowed to breed
@@sydramars7065 No, this is dangerous, easily exploited. The opportunities for genocide when this is applied is too great. Ultimately, whether you like it or not, they are just as human as you are. This is not to say we shouldn't do something about it but absolute control is certainly not the way to go.
That’s just another reason why women should be able to have abortions.
@@Gajooblesold manson would say: what makes the difference, and he may be right.
In the interviews I have watched, Manson seems to be playing up for the camera. It was almost as if he was overacting the role of Manson or what he thought we imagined him to be because the real Manson was no one special. But the Manson that everyone was talking about, the one who could get on TV and have books written about him, did matter. So long as we were paying him attention, he was somebody.
Best description of Manson I’ve ever heard
True. Manson was always trying to impress people. Very much like the dude on Mindhunter, a show-off. He told a writer I know, "If I had it to do over, I'd have just stayed on the Ranch and not killed anybody."
He played their game and gave them good tv and he always asked for a favor in return. It sucks that most will not educate themselves before forming an opinion about someone and spreading what they think might be somewhat true
There is tape of him of him being normal - nicolas schrek tapes - talking on the phone, and he just sounds like a normal, though intelligent, dirt baggy white dude. Also sounds a little sensitive.
I would be interested in your thoughts about The Columbine Killers, Dylan and Eric.
They've been analyzed like crazy. If Dr. Grande has a different take, that might be interesting, though.
There was a book that came out just a few years ago written by one of their mother's. It was very interesting. It made one feel sorry for these boys in a way but of course, that's a mother's p.o.v
Vodka and Reb
@@h.borter5367 those kids did not have it that bad. Feel sorry for the victims and their parents. I know one of them, Tom Mauser, and he has to constantly hear about how sad his kid's murderer had it. Meanwhile his kid was picked on and nobody cares so much because he didn't murder.
@@NoReligion77 Yes sympathy for the perpetrator of the crime it seems. Naught for the victims .
“Colonel scott not a real colonel that was just his name” 😂 ha this hit me laughing with your straight face
Yeah, me too 😁😁
My name's President Truman, not the real President Truman, it's just my name.
Manson was a failed artist as well.. he worked with one of the beach boys. He released a record too. Beware of the failed artists !! Their vengeance can be terrible..
So was Hitler.
@@bonniewatts4922 Bonnie: but that was architect.
@@paintinganimalsonrocks7633 he drew also. He wasn't bad but unimaginative
@@Annasea666 Their overcompensation for their inadequesies didn't do them any good. Pathetic.
And that sucks dude. His music was beautiful..
I can never get over what a clear, concise and organized mind you have! Love all your vids!
"Like father, like son." Mason was a con man that found himself in an extraordinairey time and place.
+Julie.
And his mother is out of the equation?
@@hieveryone.8508 simple is as simple speaks. youre asking a question from a more advanced lesson. ;)
Nixon spouted to the press at the time of the ongoing trial, he thought Manson was guilty. This remark poisoned the existing jury and the jury pool for any future trial. This "verdict" by Nixon was unconstitutional and as a lawyer, should have known better.
Free Manson. Oops, too late
These are so interesting! Thanks Dr Grande!
How fascinating- I have never heard the argument that Manson wasn't the mastermind behind the Family. He is typically painted as a skilled manipulator who drew in these young people with his charisma and I am genuinely surprised to hear a counter claim. Thank you so much for this video!
It sounds like maybe not the mastermind Manson thought he was
I remember once reading a really long web page about the Manson case and how Manson might not be "as guilty" as people make him out to be. Sadly, I have no idea what that site was called and if it's even up anymore. Still, it was a pretty interesting read. I think it was mostly about how all the other family members just blamed everything on Manson in order to get shorter sentences/ not being senteced at all. There's also a theory that he never killed anyone nor told anybody else to kill, making him completely innocent when it comes to the family murders.
If there's any truth to that, then Manson could be one of the most unnecessarily hated men in the US.
@@Assimandeli But I'm still glad he was behind bars until he died.
He was a political prisoner. No trial. A Patsy if you will.
Manson as the mastermind was the prosecution theory and unfortunately I think Manson was sick enough in the head to go along with just about anything. If you look at the facts, Manson wasn’t present during any of the murders
Thank you for your assessment Dr. Grande. I was not aware of many of the details of Manson life.
Earlier this week while watching a brief documentary (Skinner) on the life of Doris Day I learned that Terry Melcher,
American record producer, singer & songwriter (and the actress only son) was the man Manson was looking to find after hving procured his help (and been turned down) in getting his music career off the ground. However, by that time Melcher had moved out of the home and rented it to actress Sharon Tate and movie director Roman Polanski. Their murder might have been a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Manson knew Terry didn't live there anymore
Terry is Doris Day's son. So que sera
unlikely random as commonly said to have been. new book with old facts by Tom O'neill - particularly an electricians statement about breaking damage done to the Tate house that was similar to damage done to the.. Jay Sebring... or the Folgers heiresses house (cant remember of top of my head) on the same night the Tates were visiting about a week prior. Anyway. peace.
I agree!
Very interesting analysis. I’ve always thought of Manson as a narcissist. He knew how to tell his young female followers what they needed to hear. I see him as the ultimate con artist. That’s just based on accounts of his followers. He was a product of his environment.
Me as well ! Always seen narscisstic behavior very clearly in Manson
There is a lot not mentioned here which would point to someone beyond a narcissist: his histories of manipulating his grandparents, each of his marriages which included pimping his wives, as well as his manipulations of The Beach Boys --Dennis Wilson in particular--to get him so close to his pop music career. When it didn't happen, his extreme rage at Dennis and Terry Melcher, to the point that Dennis left the country. The Cielo Drive house had been Terry Melcher's house, where he lived with Candace Bergen. When Bergen found out that Melcher had refused to sign Manson, Bergen INSISTED the change residence, phone numbers, quickly and on the quiet; she could imagine what Manson would be like when thwarted. Indeed, when Manson went to Cielo Dr. to try to find them, he asked a guy who was there if the "pretty, blonde lady" still lived there---his description of Bergen suites Tate equally well.
Psychopath with Narcissistic features
@@meeeka. How do you know if it was Bergen or Melcher who made the decision to leave?
PSYUCOPATH AND ANTI SOCIAL IS WHAT I SAW.@@monikawronska390
This is truly the most rational analysis of CM that i have seen. I agree one hundred percent
I tend to agree with what you're saying. I'm not an expert, but I have read a lot about Manson and seen many interviews with him and the women. I've also seen some court footage. It always seemed to me that the mythology surrounding Manson happened because of the context. The time period, the place, the culture, the political climate, even the music. All of these things created an environment where Manson and then girls he met were able to build momentum so to speak. Certain things in history just happened to have the right "ingredients" and probably would never or could never happen the same way again. Had Manson been slithering around Haight Ashbury today, he may have just been seen as a mumbling vagabond with no group of followers. I think he was just a catalyst and then a symbol of the entire climate during that time. The people he met who ended up following him and committing the murders were probably already looking for something and he became the symbol.
this is exactly what I think as well. Manson could only have happened in 67-69 due to societal factors.
Absolutely right. Given the climate of the time, this was just waiting to happen.
A particularly good analysis. I never look at this situation in that way.
The people he attracted came from relatively normal families. The culture at the time with music and drugs played a strong role in his attractiveness. He offered a place to hangout with the all the liberties that come with it. The sex with anyone at anytime mentality helped him make associations with people like Dennis Wilson. I was 13 14 at the time so much younger than you, but I remember the culture ( survived it because I was too young and my parents would never let me go anywhere ).
why do you say that's why you survived it?. no opinion just asking.-- as opposed to not surviving it that is. I understand what you mean about age but is that to say that if you had been 20 you would have not 'survived' and if so ho do you mean?. individually or as a general risk or both?. just wonder what you mean. no judgment. nor view yet. thats why i ask.
@@erikred8217 i meant my age foremost. However I was impressionable and fairly naïve.
@@christinecornezcolmenero9356 right on. Hey thanks!
Wow. Very fresh look at the case. Thank you. Won't make me feel bad when those now-70 plus year women are denied parole. They wanted to kill as much as he did.
Yes, as did the 1/6/21 insurrectionists.
Didn’t one of them die a while ago?
@@RYMAN1321 Susan Atkins.
She was given parole, but Governor Newson denied the parole.
Wow. Great analysis and fantastic delivery! I have just discovered Dr. Grande's videos and I've become a huge fan. I look forward to hearing them all!
He was hustling people out of change at the local grocery store as a small child. No big deal in and of itself. He convinced a group of girls to beat up a boy he didn't like in grade school--a portent of bigger things to come down the road. It truly would have taken a village to socialize Charles; that village wasn't there. His early years were largely characterized by an extremely unstable family life, including losing his mother to prolonged incarceration as a child, which would
destabilize just about anyone--especially someone without a father. It was a mess. I think Charlie was always just being Charlie, the only way he knew how. He tried to settle down into the "straight" world briefly, but I think the boredom and frustration were overwhelming. I do feel that he was charismatic, as well as highly manipulative and self-aggrandizing. I also believe that he was obsessed with fame and wanted to achieve it. He did.
Well said. I agree. He is very charismatic. I married a man who may or may not have killed people, he told me he had, but he definitely went out at night to go to bars and would come home covered in blood. Never his own, mind you, always some poor backpacker's. He was a fruit loop but that charm, it was like a button he could switch on. A very scary man.
@@queenofthebutterflies5212 umm... what?? Did you report him to the police?
@@KaiLucasZachary He was friends with the police!!!! He was Thai. I have spoken to other Thai people and thev told me that where he was living was all Mafia run.
@@queenofthebutterflies5212 Behind bars now hopefully
Thank you Dr. Grande. I always look forward to your interesting analyses. This one was fascinating....🌹
Lee Harvey Oswald. Thanks Dr. Grande, excellent work.
Dr.Grande I would love to hear your take on a less known and much more recent killer: Randy Stair aka Andrew Blaze, the Weiss Market Shooter.
He shared dozens of hours worth of a "manifesto", claimed he was a transwoman (even though Andrew was a name he chose for himself), and created a disturbing cartoon series on youtube that was a ripoff of a character from the children's show Danny Phantom.
I agree that Manson wasn't that special and the media made him out to be much more of a criminal mastermind than he actually was--if he was a mastermind I don't think he would have gotten caught so easily
Also the actor who played Manson in Mindhunters did an exceptionally good job, I must say.
Would love to see Dr Grande's take on Randy Stair as well. As a layman I couldn't make sense of his story at all.
The Randy Stair target shooting video is hilarious!
Try Aquarius with David Duchovny as detective Hodiak.
Hi Dr.G, I'm a crimementary lol crime/documentary on him.I remember he died in prison in his eighties. I prefer this episode, you started at the beginning which made more sense to me, congrats.Take care and thanks.
I would love to see your analysis of Jim Jones.
Yeah, that, Kent Hovind, the Bakkers and Joel Osteen.
Good one@ Kate Maloney
@@dawnelizabeth1828 Yes
Yes. There is a lot of information available for this, including some audio and video footage.
It's in his list
Hi Dr. Grande, when I first heard about Manson someone was describing him as some kind of mastermind. Then I read about what he actually did and I now consider him one of the most overrated criminals of all times (overrated in a dark way), great video. I really love the format of your videos, I'm always waiting for your "diagnostic" but I also enjoy how you tell the story and your sense of humor. If you whatched the TV show, I would like to know what are your thoughts about Tony Soprano, I think it's an interesting topic because you could also tell us what you think about his therapy, the aproach of his therapist (also, if it's realistic) and their relationship. Thanks Dr. Big!
Yes! When you asked the question:was he the mastermind? I initially said Yes,but after listening to your analogy I quickly seen how he was Delusional Thinking and the group bought into it; thus together they formed that Cult. Thanks Dr G.
Loved this video! Great job ❤️
Tex Watson was more violent and dangerous than Manson
He sure was.........since he fought extradition and had a separate trial, he wasn't part of the media circus and so it wasn't as covered by tv.
Agreed. Manson was but his life coach
This is really fascinating because I always thought Manson was extremely charismatic. Or atleast that’s how he is always described as, but when you think about it, all his “family” members were already pretty vulnerable. They were mostly runaways still searching for their sense of identity. On top of that, drugs probably didn’t help as well. Great stuff doc.
You could see it the other way also, all these middle class kids, and a schizophrenic mentally ill Manson, he was the vulnerable one.
PLUS HE USED SEX WITH THE WOMEN TO MANIPUATE THEM.
You have the BEST topics too! Every famous case that I am interested in and have followed for years. Stay as FAB as you are and thanks for everything! ❤️
Dr. Grande, maybe you once like doing a topic about 'Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria'? It's not in the DSM (yet), but it would be great if you explain and talk about it, from a scientific view and your own thoughts and experiences with this phenomenal.
Most people are concerned with being liked at one point or another. So many of us wish we don't care what others think, and yet, it's virtually impossible not to at least care a bit (or else you might probably even develop SPD or so). Thanks again doc 😃🇳🇱
Ty, Lucia :)
Sounds interesting Ben.👍🏼
Yes, it is Rejane :)
I really enjoy your views. Excellent video. 🙂
Lol, love your sense of humor.
Charles Manson never referred to them as "the Manson Family", it was actually the newspaper that named them.
😘
The socalled manson family was a Music Group . Bugliosi told many lies to make money !
No, they called themselves The Family. Read Ed Sanders’s 1973 book The Family, published years before Helter Skelter.
Wow. I think this is one of the most off analyses from Dr. Grande I’ve ever seen. I disagree on several points.
The blind leading the blind... Great analysis, as usual, Doc! Thanks for sharing!
Dr Grande could you speak on the long term affects that stigma can inflict on the family members of murderers?
RaymonD my Father murdered my Mother in 2006 and then killed himself. You learn to live with it. But some people can be beyond cruel by the way they judge you
@@naturegirl9680 Damn. Sorry you had to go through that in your life. It is so hard I know. I know what it's like to be the survivor of loved one's suicide, which is hard enough, and I know of attempted murders within my family circle, but never had to live thru the loss of someone by a loved one's murder.
Well, sure. They write books for money.
Dr. Grande, you, sir, are on fire these days! Thank you from Germany (where you help making the lockdown so much more bearable!)
His *disciplines* crawling to the courtroom was really a something else!
Two often forgotten victims of the Mansonites were musician Gary Hinman and ranch hand Jerome "Shorty" Shea.
Thank you so much for doing this! I recently started watching Aquarius and wanted to learn more about the man.
Thank you so much Dr.Grande for your great work )
Thanks for this. I've never understood the reverence people seemed, and still seem to some extent, to hold him in. Watching interviews with him always left me with one impression - he was an asshole. A deeply unpleasant individual with no redeeming features whatsoever. Not a big man in any way at all, just a wee scrote.
I totally agree,leslie van houten said she wasnt even attracted to him her boyfriend was bobby.why would she do such a stupid thing.he didnt even ask her to go the next night,she begged to go.i truly believe shes the craziest out of all of them.they also thought they'd be out in 7 years.thanks to all the governors who have denied them parole. 2 down 3 to go.
A wee scrote! LMAO! Love that description!
@@tomcoryell Us Scots love a wee swear word! It is, I have always presumed, a shortened version of scrotum. Feel free to use it with abandon :)
You forgot to mention how during one of his tenures between reform school and prison he was sent to live with an uncle who was a white supremacist/Nazi who hated blacks, Jews, anyone who was different (rich people, too); he had Nazi paraphernalia and magazines and a poster of Hitler in a school bus he and his cult had appropriated. One of the theories for the LaBianca murders was that he was looking for the home of a black man he had had a run-in with a few months earlier (he believed the man to be part of the Black Panthers) and wanted to finish the job, but couldn't remember the address. He instructed Kasabian to take Rosemary LaBianca's wallet and leave it in a public restroom so a black man would find it, use it, then be arrested for the crime. He also took Atkins and Kasabian out for hot fudge sundaes while 3 others from the group slaughtered the LaBiancas.
He was also there for the three-day torture and murder of musician Gary Hinman. He was the one who took the sword and cut off Hinman's ear (which Atkins sewed back on) because he wanted the inheritance Hinman had received.
He was a manipulative b*stard (literally and figuratively) who told his followers what they wanted to hear (many of whom came from broken/dysfunctional families) and gave them LSD to probe their minds and find out their deepest, darkest secrets. He DID shoot and kill Shorty Shea. He also threatened the manager at the Whiskey-A-Go-Go, and promptly got his butt beat and tossed out of the establishment.
I don't believe that the prosecution was as dirty as you made it out to be. This was a whole new kind of murder case that had never been tried before. Yeah, there were some deals made, but Atkins changed her story and refused to testify. Ronald Hughes, his lawyer, was replaced by Irving Kanarek and went on to represent Van Houten, and then was ultimately murdered to show the judge and jury that no one was safe. It was also used as a tool to help free the defendants. Even from his jail cell, he was able to send a message to the women, which led them to shave their heads and carve X's into their foreheads. That is a level of manipulation that ranks up there with Jim Jones and Hitler. In fact, the similarities between the three monsters are weird and scary.
He was a sociopath, a narcissist, a manipulator; he would have been the man Hitler would have loved to have by his side. He was a dual personality--a man who preached love and togetherness and family but had NEVER experienced any of it for himself. He hated himself (which is one of the most dangerous kinds of people), and he hated society for "branding" him from birth. Society, not he, was the root of all evil. He is the classic case of literally falling thru the cracks too many times to count. Could that happen today? Probably, but I doubt to the same extreme. Edit: I forgot to mention that he was a misogynist of the highest order. He didn't just think he was better than a woman, he absolutely hated, despised, and loathed women. He truly believed that women were subservient to him and deserved to spend their lives on their knees. He viewed himself as a lord and master of women. Even in his ABC interview, he addresses Diane Sawyer as "WOMAN!" a derogatory term meant to lesser her place and purpose. Look at it from that point of view and you will see him differently.
Look, I'm no expert on him, the "family", or the case. However, I have done my research and jumped into the deep end when looking into theories from both sides. I was born on 08 August 1969 and have an eerie and weird connection to that day in history. I'm not trying to say you're wrong in your analysis, but the layers on him were plentiful and very sinister.
One last thing: At Boys Town, where he stayed (for a brief, brief, BRIEF while) and had his photograph in the newspaper during his welcome by Father Flanagan, they have a motto: "There is no such thing as a bad boy"; I would say that he shot that theory to hell.
Wow, that's an eyeful of good new stuff right there, thanks.
Thank you, well done. Dr. Grande could you do an analysis of Rev. Jim Jones, did he gradually slide into mental problems or were they always bad from the start?. He is a prime example of why never to blindly follow any charismatic leaders, Thanks in advance, I appreciate all your good work.
I was born the very day that they drank the kool-aid. I just turned 43 in November.
i appreciate that you gave us a full run-down of his criminal record, i didnt know most of that and it rounds out his profile more clearly for me
Loving your videos during quarantine!!! Can you do a video on Diane Downs?!?!
😘
Thanks for making mental health topics so interesting dr.grande
I'm glad you chose to look at CM. I've read the book 'Helter Skelter' written by the lawyer who prosecuted and broke the case. That is a fascinating and harrowing book!
Raymond DeFlaviis If you read Tom O’Neill’s book, you’ll realise Helter Skelter was nonesense. Vince Bugliosi (that lawyer) was a pretty shitty human
Thankyou Dr. Grande. I always appreciate the content. Have a good day 😀😀👍👍
Great video as always. Could you please analyze Charles “Tex” Watson and Patricia Krenwinkle? Were they Psychotic according to the 5 point scale?
Dr. Grande, I always enjoy and learn from your videos. I agree with you that Manson was obviously severely and dangerously psychopathic, and your review of his genetic loading and horrible upbringing is very helpful and instructive. I have also watched his interviews and I agree with your sense that he looks psychotic based on his thought disorganization, incongruent/odd affect, bizarre beliefs. The only place I disagree with you is about how you discuss the question of whether or not his influence on others should be attributed to unusual talents or giftedness. I think that the Manson Family was in fact a cult, albeit a small one. I think that all cult leaders possess some sort of special manipulative charisma. You mention Shared Psychotic Disorder and I agree that it was a factor in the Manson murder spree. But they way I understand the classic scenario of Folie A Deux is that it is basically a cult with one leader and one member. Manson had about 30 members who he was able to infect with his insane delusional fantasies. His use of psychedelics was part of his manipulation no doubt, but there is some sort of creepy charisma that he possessed, without which I don't think he'd have recruited and brainwashed these cult members. - Andrew B. Klafter MD, Cincinnati OH (Psychiatrist and Psychoanalyst).
Don't forget Manson was a con man who had read used How to Make Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, something to be considered in his life.
I don't believe he could read; and with his level of narcissism, he wouldn't believe he needed any advice.
Mark Burgh Just like Trump th-cam.com/video/ybitHLhb0yw/w-d-xo.html
@@gaylebaker8419 prison seminars
Scientology too.all that crap
@@gaylebaker8419 He definitely must have learned how to read in prision.
He talks well articulated on quite philosophical stuff although vauge.
Narcissist aren't againts learning. They just skim enough information until they can confidently make up the rest when they need too.
They distort facts and information to suit their agendas.
He was diabolically smart sometimes. I remember once seeing him interviewed and he said (I paraphrase): "All they said I did was tell some other people to commit murder....try to steal someone's credit card and buy something big and then say somebody else told you to steal that card and see who they arrest and put away!" I had to admit he had a somewhat valid point....LOL
So happy to see your upload notification, Dr. Grande. You're truly my favourite TH-camr
Really good dissection of the Manson case
Short but great video, as usual! The podcast series Young Charlie by Wondery (Hollywood & Crime) provides a deep dive in Mason’s life and crimes and also in the lives of some of his main followers. Worth the time!
Great video, Dr. Grande, love your in-depth research.
Stephanie Harlow made a fantastic series on mansen, if anyone is interested . Goes into great depth over a few episodes :)
I can get on board with this analysis - I have always wondered why he was put on a pedestal, and in every documentary or interview he doesn't really seem to be special in any way, just crazy. And the people who "followed" him were equally as crazy, and it all escalated, seems more plausible to me :)
I always wanted to know more about the actual killers.why would u listen to him???and actually kill people you have no idea who they are.
He was a self stylized 'guru' who targeted late 1960s teenage runaway hippie girls with daddy issues. Shooting fish in a barrel.
Tamburello true... he learned how to manipulate people at a very young age.
Every time Dr. Todd rattles off OCEAN, I try to say it with him. Alone in a NYC studio apartment during a pandemic. Binge watching dr. Todd.
Thanks, Doc!!!
Thank you, Dr. Grande. Your analysis seems on point.
As always an interesting video. I am a med student my self, and i am intertaining the idea of becomming a psychiatrist when i graduate. I Think it would be very interesting to hear some more thoughts on psychiatry in generel, why you chose to become a psychiatrist and the pros and cons of working with mentally ill.
Thank you again for your good work .
How did all that turn out? Are you still going through with it all? If so, how did that work out ?
Sometimes when I listen to Dr. Grande I have to rewind and check if I truly heard what I think I heard. I love it how his facial expression doesn't change at all and there is no indication whether what is being said is a joke. I wonder how he'd analyse his own behaviour? That'd be a fun episode :)
Excellent! I’ve read “Helter Skelter” and thought Manson a typical con man with gullible people around him. Horrific story.
Greetings Dr. Grande...Sir i have a request. Please cover Aliester Crowley also.
BTW, love your channel.❤
When I was in my doctoral degree program in psychology, one of my professors described Charles Manson as an "undiagnosed schizophrenic." Whether this is accurate is arguable. There is no doubt that Manson was the biggest loser in terms of the "nature vs. nurture" argument. His use of drugs probably did not help his mental and cognitive functioning. I love your OCEAN personality profile acronym. Thank you so much for your analysis.
He was diagnosed with schizophrenia by at least one psychiatrist. It seemed like he had mild schizophrenic traits but he wasn’t completely enveloped by it.
HE WAS CLEARLY ANTI SOCIAL P.D. AND PSYCOPATHIC. WHO REALLY KNOWS IF HE WAS TRULY SCHTIZO.
The O.C.E.A.N. acronym is pretty commonly used, I'm shocked you'd not heard of it by grad school!
That's an amazing analysis. Thanks a lot for your point of view, Dr. G.!
"So, we see, kind of on both sides, genetically, Manson runs into problems."
Classic.
Yay! brilliant cheers Todd I'm gonna watch this over a few times & comment properly this eve
Cain't wait
Suggestion: The Eriksson twins. I know it's not the first time I've requested that you please look into if there's some underlying psychological reasons, that could explain their behavior about a decade ago in the UK, especially why both of them ran out into traffic on a motorway.
Yes I agree. Please do one on the Eriksson twins. That video of them and interviews later with them never explained what was going on with them mentally. I would love to hear a in-depth psychological analysis of them
I wouldn't be able to watch that, I have twin phobia. When I was a kid, around 8 if I remember correctly, some twins played a trick on me by not informing me that they were one of a twin. I thought there was just one with a Multiple Personality Disorder. So, whenever I meet a twin I generally make an excuse to leave. Funny, I'm ok with triplets and quads.
Dr Grande’s videos are my special treat after a long working day! Thanks ❤️
He started in life as “no name” Manson. His teen mom sold him for a pitcher of beer. He was sent to his aunt and uncle. His aunt screamed about God all the time. His dad left when he was really young. The inept parenting probably led to his unstable behavior.
Yes but if u think about it Manson didn't actually kill anyone himself he ordered others to do it. . So how unstable was the upbringing of those who obliged?
Hey Dr Grande, great video. A much neglected topic in regards to Manson are his links to various occult organizations. He used to say to his followers: “Let's do something witchy”. In fact his “Helter Skelter” plan to incite a race war may have been inspired by his association with the early California Agape Lodge of the Ordo Templi Orientis in which Manson was briefly a low level member. Jack Parsons was the leader of that lodge and they believed that the apocalypse was coming and that social chaos would bring the downfall of civilization and the new “Age of Horus”. How much effect this had on Manson is anyone's guess, but it couldn't have been beneficial.
I remember watching the news during the summer of 69, and during the trials. It impressed me that when Manson would do something the group of girls who hung out in front of the courthouse would do it too. Like when he shaved his head bald, the next day the girls would be bald, or when he branded a swastika into his forehead so did they. I have always felt that they committed the murders willingly, but it was because Manson wanted them to. They would do whatever he wanted them to, plain and simple.
the street Sharon Tate lived on Cielo drive, Cielo means Heaven in spanish. that always stuck with me& great video!also, i remember his parole officer was interviewed and said Manson when released begged NOT to be released in 1967.
Interesting as always! Just a minor request. To me it would've been helpful if you would've added the actual age of Manson when you told about his background, not just what year this and that happened. Of course it's simple mathematics, but I had to stop the video to figure out how old he was when different things occurred. Anyway, thank you so much for your work. I learn a lot!
Here here, an excellent analyses. I concur Dr Grande.
Best analysis of Manson ever! And I've pretty much heard them all,those of any note anyway. I've always thought Manson was no more sane or insane than anyone else that spent 99% of their life any prison. One thing most people will never understand also,he spoke in a really...disjointed profanity heavy prison slang language that sounds like nonsense to most people, unless maybe they've known someone that's done a lot of prison time. And when he did interviews he poured that on thick as hell to intentionally mess with people,because what else did he have to pass the time,they took his guitar lol
What I find interesting about your analysis towards the end, is that it flies in the face of what the members have said over the years, that nothing was done if it was not decreed by Manson first. Could it be a combination of the followers, with weaker personalities, looking for a leader? And Manson, with his Helter Skelter style, found a perfect match? Your analysis is definitely interesting and I would mind hearing more from you about this tale, which has so many layers to it. It definitely affected our culture. A 60s Catcher in the Rye, if you will, with a much more deadly outcome.
Another interesting study of an iconic deviant. I have to ask though, can examining characters of greatness (like Churchill or Napoleon as an example) be as intriguing? Thanks again
an absolutely brilliant analysis
I always wondered about this individual, I am glad you made a video on him! Intelligent analysis as usual.👌🏼
Thank you Dr. Grande:)
You are spot on about Manson. Excellent video as always 😃
Finally! I've been waiting for your take on Manson and I'm not disappointed. I have always thought he was this genius manipulator and leader but now have some other food for thought.
crazed faeiry the cia caught him a few times and released him and he had allot of acid
I live about 1.5 miles southwest of the former Spahn Ranch. This area was also known for having dozens of movie ranches at one time.
Very interesting take. I spent a lot of time reading books on this case. I think Dr. Grande is right on with his assessment. Manson was no "Mastermind" or "Cult Leader." That theory seems to have been an invention of the Prosecutor (Vincent Bugliosi).
It went around, It was part of the scene. Manson was manipulated too. "They were all digging the vibes they were getting off of each other, and it got carried away ?"
Please do NXIVM cult leader Keith Raniere (maybe Allison Mack as well)?!
Also, Bobbi Beuasoliel was the only male associated with The Family who had any charisma. Mason was incredibly jealous of Beausoliel (who is in prison for the Gary Hinman Murder)
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one Dr. Grande.