What's going on behind your flat-back diff cover?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Gale Banks is on a quest to determine if aftermarket differential covers actually do anything. In the latest video on the topic, he takes a look behind an aftermarket flat-back aluminum diff cover to see what's really happening at highway speeds.
Buy Banks new patented Ram-Air Diff Covers here:
www.bankspower.com/diffcovers
Watch the full "Behind the Diff Cover" video series here:
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Gale Banks just started a new trend, LED lit diffs
El Rey Only if there’re RGB
Then next it will be RGB LED illuminated clear rocker-covers on engines!
New product, Clear Curved Diff Cover with LED's and programmable message. Default msg, "Gale Banks Coves Your DIff"
the cleargearz guys actually mention lighting the dif in their instructions, they also had colouring for the oil
Haha first thing I though about watching this.
This guy makes me want to buy something from him
Imagine how much he looks at his own products
Love this guy!
Kevin’s Trooper Channel he is always improving! ALWAYS.
Kevin’s Trooper Channel just wait for part 3, I bet he’ll have something to sell.
@@ALMX5DP
And?
ProudNavyDad SWO no and, the OP was just saying how much Gale looks at his own products. I was simply saying this is likely part of that process for him to bring something to market.
it will be a very simple stock diff cover like made out of aluminium whit big fins haha
It would be neat to see some thermal imaging. That would highlight the highest friction areas for the fluid.
TI doesn't work that way. The IR light won't make it through the plastic cover. All it will show is a big red blob with uniform heat.
You don't need to see through to the oil, as it will all be the same temp. However, since the plastic cover is an excellent insulator it will not spread it's heat and will show obvious hot spots. So this would confirm the 90degree oil deflection is adding heat to the plastic/oil.
We have quite a bit of Flir thermal imaging. Although it's tough to see clear definition. It's interesting to see the heat move from the ring gear outwards.
@@sixtyfiveford have you actually used a thermal camera?
thermal imaging can be tried but the cover would have to be made translucent to the IR band I think some plastic are made for that purpose but I don't know if it will be compatible with the diff oil :/
this is what we need more of, actual technical videos of real products that we can buy. showing how they work, how the stock systems work, and there benefits/drawbacks. please keep this up! more videos of un biased scientifically proven results. allowing us to make our own opinions based on tests we dont have the time/money/resources/know how to do our selvs.
Too bad this is not a technical vid why no comparison to the prior one? Banks really can not edit a vid to have a side by side? lol oh wait it cause if you go back... the fluids look exactly the same... don't listen to me, go back. If anything the stock cover has more air bubbles ontop of the fluid than this one... the stock cover has "circulation" this one had what eddy currents? and what did he say "I don't know how much is getting on the pinion"
@@mattlane2282 u must have one of these useless covers lol
Yep I make valid points so that means I must have one of those "useless" covers... everything I have is stock bro. I was hoping to see something useful here but... I should have expected something as sales pitch as this...
@@mattlane2282 it's all leading up to a final result, some people just aren't smart enough to take in a hr long video on what works and doesn't. Kinda like u, u just wanna see results, not why
And you just lost, you need to fall back to insulting people, he flat out said "I do not know how much oil is getting to that pinion" and now I am just repeating what I already said that you could not grasp... i took the time to go open the other vid as well and compare the air, flow, etc... and if I picked one knowing nothing... I would say THIS TEST HAS LESS AERATION in it based off what we can see.
This is all advertising leading up to the likely release of some banks diff covers and you suckers are all eating it up.
Why are all the haters going on about Banks' "sales pitch"? Last I checked, he's saying DO NOT waste your money on aftermarket covers, and stick with the stock cover. How is that a "sales pitch" - if anything, it is an anti-sales pitch. He's not selling anyone anything.
I think a bunch of people are just sore that they wasted money on an aftermarket cover that doesn't actually help anything. Maybe it doesn't hurt as much as Gale thinks it might (I suspect the higher than stock fluid level recommendation for these covers is a band-aid to prevent starvation of the front pinion bearings).
I've questioned the point of most of these covers for a while. Always seemed like a waste to me for most applications.
Agreed 100%. People want to get aftermarket diff covers for what? So the oil will last longer? So diff temperatures stay lower? Or is it just cool looking?
In my opinion there's nothing wrong with stock diff covers. I've seen lots of vehicles with stock covers and have had the rear end outlast several engines. Let's face it, rear ends and differentials are pretty tough. Probably one of the least problematic mechanical components in a vehicle. And I also know that most people never service them or change the fluids at the recamended intervals (myself included) and they still survive. I've owned many vehicles and lots of trucks and do severe heavy duty towing and have never had a rear end fail. I know they can and do but it's not common.
I guarantee Banks will be unveiling there new cover after all these videos you don't spend this kind of money to prove how bad your competitors products are you do it to prove how good yours is
Gale Banks has simply demonstrated how poor, lazy, & cheap the designs of those aftermarket are, which seem to have been made to look impressive while using the least amount of metal!
Thank you Banks power. I will keep my stock cover.
Not only that, but fill to the prescribed fluid level. I have to admit that I've always just filled to the bottom of the drain plug, which in many cases is an overfill.
I'd like to see a transparent stock cover. You could machine a recess into a block of perspex to match the shape of the inside of the stock cover and polish it so that you can see through it.
EDIT: nvm, that was the previous video, lol
you can put aftermarket covers on just not flat backs try ones that have the same physical design but someone like myself wants something that is much stronger for offroading
Leonard Martin+ That makes sense. A finned version of the original shape cover seems like it would be useful for cooling.
i dont see the point of a flat back in the first place other than looks. i would much rather a original shape and inside space so same amount of oil everything is exact same in regards to performance and cooling etc. only difference is the metal is much thicker for hitting rocks and other things
Gale you need to check out what Freightliner and Detroit are doing for their rear drive axles. They have an air actuated flap that limits the amount of oil that the ring gear sits in. Depending on load and temps it will adjust its position. I believe they got 5% decrease in friction loss.
viscous loss is reduced with those flappers ,friction is the same,or increased by lack of lube.
@@michaelovitch yeah I should have said viscous loss instead of friction loss. The ring gear still gets enough Lube in all situations.
Thanks so much for these excellent videos Gale @bankspower
The reason i went to after market covers is because i tow alot so i change my fluid frequently i don't care about cost i care about great maintenance. I like the dip stick to check levels its simple and i love the gasket. No reason to take the cover off for service just check the magnetic dip stick if it looks good drain fluid refill and go. I drive a 7.3 mildly programmed total granpas truck that tows stuff sometimes real heavy stuff 300 thousand miles no issues after i got rid of the stock junk tranny. Bearings and seals ball joints regular stuff. But my rear end no trouble with a flat back mag hitech cover. But if banks comes out with a better product. That i can service and check easily ill sell my covers and buy his. Because he is the man and he knows his shit and he knows tow rigs.
Derek Bedford Only problem is is by the time Banks is done trashing mag tech’s covers they won’t be worth jack...i’m in the same boat as you. i haul commercial air conditioners with a 95 ram 3500. i bought the same brand covers but I know my fill level did not change and my rear cover is about 2 inches deeper to accommodate extra fluid on a dana 80. the front cover is about 1”or so deeper. I changed the gear ratios a while back to a taller gear and so far with 80k both front and rear look perfect. so I’m not too worried about it myself unless one of them gets damaged. i’m sure by then Gail banks will have something on the shelf ready to rock that has better fluid dynamics😮 that is if he makes covers for older trucks? i’ve been happy with everything I bought so far from banks I’m sure he will do a good job as always.
darkjedi351 I definitely wouldn’t worry about it I have never heard of anyone having issues with bearings starving for lube or overheating issues due to aftermarket covers in my life. I’ve had three trucks with the same covers with hundreds of thousands of hard pulling miles driven with no issues. only benefits. i’m sure finding a guy blaming premature wear or overheating due to a diff cover upgrade is about as rare as a unicorn.
speed demon ... Ya i bought my truck to be a 20 year truck but it just might be a 30 year truck or a 40 yr truck. Im not interested in the new fancy junk. Def fluid is a california government scam i have friend's that tow alot and have deleted there newer trucks but they are having problems. One of my best friends just sold his newer deleted cummins and took the money and bought 2 nice old 7.3s with the money. So he eliminated his payment and got 2 sweet trucks. I dont think anyone can go wrong with an old cummins or an old 7.3. I cant pull the pass at 90 but i don't want too. I leave on time and i treat my truck like my best tool in the box i take care of it it takes care of me. Plus im a dad and im saving tons of money for my kids future by not having stupid un needed payments.
Fantastic info .... absolutely loving this series :)
This is easily my favorite series of videos I'm currently following on TH-cam. It is absolutely fascinating! Thank you, Mr. Banks! I can't wait for the next one!
One of the BEST info series on TH-cam. I can't wait to see his new cover ! ! ! GREAT research THANKS Gale. I've been fixated through this whole series.
Excellent series from Gale Banks. Based on the info released so far, it sounds like the best diff cover to run for GM diesel truck owners is the OE aluminium cover off of a newer Ram diesel. Personally, I am hoping Banks come out with their own diff cover... Possibly a cover that hold more fluid but keeps the stock fluid height and has some sort of guide plate cast into it so stock cover (or better) fluid flow is achieved around the ring gear to the pinion bearings.
So love the ability of Banks Engineering to explain and prove how their products are better.
Kevin Kalivoda
Doesn’t sound like he’s a fan of higher fluid levels , and look at the aeration when it is higher.
I suspect he’s up to something or figured out something with lubrication and he’s got a product for it.
@@MrTheHillfolk You are correct. Banks is not a fan of higher fluid level. I didn't say higher fluid level. I said stock (OE) fluid level with higher fluid capacity.
It's gonna be difficult to get that additional capacity. That pretty much requires a square backed diff cover. If Banks were to do anything, there would probably be some new studs to stick on the carrier caps. The studs would be longer. Then, use those longer studs to anchor a series of baffles around the ring gear to laminarize the fluid and sling it onto the pinion and keep it from splashing in the square reservoir. That said, the stock diff cover was rather good. You can just grind down the edges.
@@Dr_Xyzt My thought was the same as someone else mentioned and similar to yours. Put a baffle or guide plate by the ring gear to direct fluid, simulating the oe cover. Then you could have a flat back cover to increase fluid capacity without changing fluid height in the diff
But as he demonstrates, a higher fluid capacity results in a higher running level.
Mr. Banks, a true scientific approach to design. I can't wait till Banks releases a properly designed diff cover.
Ehhhh hold your horses on that... he's speculating his ass off.
Love this guy! Great testing and good information. I really love his curiosity and can understand why he is so successful. Keep making these videos; we will keep watching!!
Very thankful you did this research and shared it with us. Very respectable . Hard to find that these days. Thank you.
Have a good one.
Most people are "sheeple" and just blindly follow others. This guy is not! I can guarantee you he's making some enemies! I admire him for telling the truth.
Using the term sheeple immediately discredits anything you say.
How do you figure?
He's selling something, so his "science" is flawed. If he wants to make a product to sell, he shouldn't be fixated on heat generation and aeration of the fluid, because that's bs. Once you increase the fluid capacity of the axle, like to say 2 gallons, heat transfer in the fluid is less of a problem. Most over the road Class 8 Diesel trucks run 2-2.5 gallons of oil in each of their axles. Offroad Diesel trucks, like garbage trucks, dump trucks, and offroad tractors for hauling offroad equipment, usually top out at 5 gallons per axle.
Those large heavy duty trucks also have axles much larger than a typical pickup truck....
@@JosephArata Gear oil can handle some aeration, no problem - but aeration does affect level while reducing heat transfer efficiency. It will always happen, but how much is too much? It seems to me Banks is getting people to ask the right questions - including the aftermarket guys who stand prepared to sell the shiny and new to those who love it. My #1 concern with fluids in a differential is cooling at the pinion end, and that takes volume. In a splash system, the design is fixed [geometrically] so your only variables are fluid type and level. If heat removal is poor, the pinion seal ages faster and if it hardens, leaks are next. There's nowhere near as much work heat added to gear oil as in say... a 3500 psi hydraulic system, so if minimum volume is not breached I really wouldn't worry about it much with recommended fluids in use. If anything, I wish differentials came designed to accept a [thermowell style] cartridge heater - keeping condensation away helps prevent sludges from forming and that probably dictates fluid changeout more than anything. It would also improve viscosity numbers to promote distribution for parts that need it on cold days. Engine blocks and oil pans can be heated, so why do we ignore our differentials?
Amazing man with an amazing mind
Mr. Banks, I just want to thank you and your team for putting in the time and effort to explore this. It's absolutely fascinating and I'm learning a ton about fluid dynamics and design considerations just by watching. I contemplated putting aftermarket diff covers on my Jeep Wrangler and now I'm seriously rethinking that stance after watching this video series.
Spoken slowly and very thoroughly thank you for making this easy to understand and not rambling on so fast I can barely catch any of the information
Drill a hole into the diff housing, so that you can insert a camera to look at the pinion.
Hell cut the diff out make one of all glass with a glass ring & pinion so you can see everyting. Cancel that make a glass truck.
Just stick a go pro or a bullet camera in there to see. Easy enough to do, and they are cheap. Mount it from the cover side since you've already got one hacked up, just add another hole.
Agree he's making claims about the pinion he can't see nor prove. This is turning into as seen on TV science sales tatics 🤔🙄
R.J.H1978 I agree. I love this series but seeing that oil roiling around everywhere, I don’t think pinion bearing are gonna starve. Stranger things have happened so he should show it.
Aeration could be a serious problem and should be avoided as much as possible. These flat backs seem to make it worse?
Drain the oil, let the air come out and check the volume change. Easy to do. Maybe he already did it and I missed seeing it.
The BIG deal is all of that work done on a very thick viscous fluid.
Wasted energy and, although he’s not done testing, I’ll bet higher temperatures are seen. Hence the need for the fins.
A viscous circle.
A chicken and egg sort of thing?
It this was such a big deal, the Ford 9in with mounting flange for the drop out differential, would have been a complete failure because it has a hard 90° stopping flow of gear lube, if Banks is correct. 🤔🙄
Just wait until this is all done and the OEM manufacturers see it! They will send a message down to all service departments at the dealerships, that any bearing failures with a non-oem cover will not be covered. And they will have the video proof to fight it in court.
Conversation:
Dealer: We figured out what the whine noise is. Looks like the pinion bearings have failed.
Owner: OK I thought it would be something along those lines. That is covered under the powertrain warranty right?
Dealer: Well it would have been. But since you have an aftermarket square diff cover & Gale Banks did a whole series on how they are junk, that actually causes damage to the diff parts. No it will not be covered!
We have the series on DVD here at the dealership. You can purchase it for $4500 and we will throw in a new rear end.
Owner: But I was told they were better than the stock cover. They have cooling fins.
Dealer: Everyone was told they were better! With no actual science behind them. Well now we have the science.
Owner: Son-of-a-b!#
I was a service manager at a GMC dealership . We turned down warranty work on several occasions because of differential modifications. It is in General Motors policy and procedures you modify it the warranty is off.
I never got around to doing this and thank god... saved me about a grand in front and rear diffs and never ending regret! Thanks Gale!!!
I really like your way of thinking and the aim to be as unbiased as possible. ¡Muchas gracias!
This will be the new trend for 2019 Light up see through diff covers lol
Kenny407 Actually sounds kinda cool
I was just thinking the same thing.
All the squatted truck kids with underglow will definitely be doing this lmao
Yea, they should just put curb feelers on it with shag carpet on the dash and have done with it.
Its like greece where he has the car with a clear hood. That was badass. Now diff covers. Everything clear!
How about a stock one with a damn drain plug. I think most of these guys with the aftermarket diff covers are really just after the drain plug option
Fluid evacuators are cheap now, just get one of those.
I'd be happy with a drilled and tapped hole in the bottom of the housing with a flush hex pipe plug so you can drain the fluid without pulling the pan. It's just a function of cheapness/laziness on the part of the manufactures. That's what these covers provide.
Drain plug? Really? Keep the stock one that has a magnet, crack a bolt, drain it, and hit it with a pressure washer.
Exactly. What idiot spends 300 on a diff cover to get the drain plug?! U only change the oil every 30k miles! Ram has reusable gaskets. Take 10min tops to change the oil! Drain plug, gzzz.
My Toyota has a drain plug
Fantastic work! Thanks Gale
I love the thought and live, open-minded
research that’s going into this testing!
Thanks, Gale Banks, for spending the $$ in time and materials to carry these out!! Some of the best truck stuff I’ve seen, no lie!! 💪🏻💪🏻🙈
Don’t forget on the dyno to keep track of mpg for each brand.
When can I buy a Banks aluminum stock style cover?
Coming soon
Buy oem
@@JRLSprague3 oem shaped on the inside, but it looks cooler and has larger fins on the outside.
why would you want weak ass alu cover...
Why does anyone need a strong cover? These are not for smashing rocks, rumor is they are better for towing and under loads.
Love what your doing, ive always wondered about those diff covers, and fill levels. Cant wait till part 3.
thanks for doing the tests Gale I couldn't agree with you more. I would have never thought of doing this, thank you.
It’s very fascinating to see, in some cases, how very little engineering and a lot of marketing can go into these « supposed » improvements...
Dear Mr Banks; Im enjoying the videos and the knowledge gained is great. Yeah here comes the BUT. I hate to ask if you would run the test again but, would you run the test again. This time would it be possible to monitor temperature differential between stock covers vs flat back by putting a temp probe in the diff. The other idea i was curious about was using a flir camera to monitor the temp just behind the yoke to see if the pinion is drastically hotter from cover to cover. Again just curious. Thx
Temp numbers are coming with the dyno test on part 3, I'm sure.
This is absolutely why I enjoy these videos I could listen to Gale speak for hours. Its just fascinating for an inquisitive gear head like myself.
mr banks thank you i have on on my truck right know that came with it when i bought it.its going in the trash your i never thought of the fluid dynamics of it and i had no idea that it was over filling it that much .you kick ass sir
Hay Gale, what about a Mag HI tech Style cover with a stock fill level hight and a windage plate so the oil will flow nicely with the ring gear. The oil won’t cavitate or airate you will have more quantity of oil and the aluminum cover to dissipate the heat. Maybe even some bling?
Just make a windage plate that fits between the axle and any aftermarket cover. It could even have parts top and bottom to smooth the transitions to the axle housing for less fluid heating from the turbulence in those areas.
That seems "logical". Maybe having something like a built in "shoot" or "channel" that wraps around the ring gear like a motorcycle front fender hugs the tire to guide the oil and mitigate cavitation and all the other nasty stuff as much as possible.
Subtle Monster advertising there LOL
Did you see that laugh? He knows what he's doing... :) I'm guessing it's a joke, but I could be wrong. But I don't think so.
Gale,
This is really good info. Your testing and methodology are really well thought out (unlike those covers). Thank you!
God bless
Paul
Phenomenal! What an illuminating video. Can't wait to see the temp results 😁
Good think I stuck to my factory cover and instead invested in Turbo Maxx.
My only issue with pointing out how much fluid isnt making it to the pinion is it's not looking at how much is still being carried to the pinion by the ring gear. The aeration if the fluid is definitely a concern. All things said it seems like these aftermarket covers dont offer enough bang for the buck to make the cost and effort worth it. Now a real test I'd like to see is a stock steel pan with .75" fins tig welded 1" apart vertically over the entire pan and see the temperature difference between it and a stock pan
It's an 8° difference
"My only issue with pointing out how much fluid isnt making it to the pinion is it's not looking at how much is still being carried to the pinion by the ring gear."
That's carrying it to the pinion, not to the pinion bearings, which are further forward in a recessed area.
Man this guy is awesome I love how honest he is . He is the only one who has even research this issue. Thank you Mr. Banks please keep up the great work.
I could listen to him talk truck knowledge all day! Excellent stuff here!
I’ve seen enough,just make a stock shaped aluminum with fins
Bradford Ramm why fins? Cooler oil will have a higher viscosity and waste power.
mbox314 start hauling a hotshot grossing over 32 k in the summer over the mtn passes and then see if you still ask me that question.
how could you say that... lets wait for the master to finish the tests
@@philtripe lmao this comment made my night
What I don't know about oils could fill a warehouse but I imagine if your differential oil stays within a working range you should be fine, elevated temps below the maximum working temp are not nessasarily bad as higher temperature differences result in exponentially faster heat transfer, also a less conductive diff cover would be helpful in shorts low load drives in colder weather as your diff oil would get to the ideal working temperature faster and lubricate adequately. Put a temperature sensor (avoid IR's as the black coatings higher emisivity will give higher readings) if you notice higher temps than your oil is rated for then a new diff cover would be worth considering.
all the thumbs down left for this video are from the guys selling aftermarket diff covers
no, they are from guys that see though gale's bullshit. He is famous for convincing you a 40% markup for 2% increase in performance over competitors is the way to go.
And the wild speculation about things like.... lubricant in the pinion.
The thumbs down are from the guys running aftermarket covers trying to convince themselves how science means nothing. The old saying if it ain't fast chrome it holds true here.
Wow great to see this. Good job and thanks for all the work put into this video.
Thank you Gale, that was extremely fascinating!
Banks diff covers incoming.
RemoWest I said this on Facebook. If he can come up with a design that makes sense, and has a noticeable improvement over stock, he will make it. If his research shows that the axle companies have it right and no other design will make enough of a difference to warrant the development of a new product then he will leave well enough alone.
I expect "Banks" to produce diff covers with a radiused area where the cover interfaces the diff housing, similar to an O.E. unit. It seems only intuitive that is what is necessary to reduce the heating and aeration of the fluid. Also I would expect the contoured cover to benefit the dynamic flow of the fluid and aid in the lubrication of the pinion bearings, As the "stock" covers probably already do. That being said, I'm sure will learn something within his testing that we may or may not have assumed.
Stock ones seem to work fine......
Probably for the bargain price of 2 times all the competition.
I'd say he already has one ready to go, or he wouldn't be bashing everyone elses so hard
Yeah right. You don’t drink Monster energy drinks. Hahahaha
As it wasn't obvious enough the way he set it down and then spun it to show the Monster logo..Well done sir, well done!
I know I was laughing seeing an old man "drink" monster.
Noticed that too, this is turning into a circus of hack "science" (sales) 🤔🙄
@@RJ_Cormac what are your credentials?
They're so bad for you.
Great video. Nice to see someone that knows what they are doing or using logic! Many state all sorts of incorrect illogical assumptions. Those assumptions are why you have the aftermarket covers and other items designed so poorly.
Excellent excellent video. Thank you for the knowledge. Many people don't even know that just by adding work into fluid heats it up. Even by turning a pump on to a water system circulating water can add hundreds of degrees if left running.
Anyone want to bet he already has a curved cover with a banks logo on it?...
So, copy the stock design, in aluminum, and add some fins?
Yes. Perfect setup lmao
would *never* buy weak ass aluminum
@@mattlane2282 you will never break an aluminum cover using it for what it's intended for. Towing.
Legit off roading, get fabricated or cast steel or iron.
you have a huge hole in the back if anyone does not think that cover adds strength they are nuts...
also... dissimilar metals... why... just why...
Theoretical optimum. External heat exchanger to maintain the best temp for the oil.
I really like your scientific approach to this subject. I found your videos while researching for an upgrade to my stock diff cover. I'll wait to see what you come up with before I make any changes to my set up. I'm leaning toward cleaning up the stock cover and using a new gasket.
I love how passionate you are Mr Banks! Inspirational!
You allege that no oil is getting to the pinion but you don't demonstrate that fact. You need a borescope aimed at the pinion to verify.
With all of it ending up being splashed around by the cover, it makes a person wonder just how much is being pumped up to the nose cone bearings.. Maybe that's why they call for the extra fluid?
I think there's plenty going to the pinion, nearly impossible for there not to be with that much fluid splashing around. However it seems to get there far less efficiently than a stock cover.
Yea, I can see where he's going with everything except the pinion issue, look at the bearings in the rotor of the older American cars, you pack them with grease but it squishes out of the bearings almost immediately after you start rolling, it only takes the tiniest amount of lube to satisfy those types of bearings, I've been building Harley engines for almost 30 years and the same kind of bearings are in the bottom ends of those engines and with the exception of the connecting rod bearings none are pressure lubed, they rely on what trickles into them from fluid that just drips down the inside of the cases, those types of bearings require very little lube to do their job.
Seems fine to me. Maybe they need to run one for 50,000 miles equivalent, one stock, and then pull the gears and inspect for wear indicators, cavitation pitting, etc. That's the real test not cursory visual inspection of how the fluid looks on the cover. XD this whole series is crafted to create a market for Banks' finned aluminum covers.
Bingo. More lube isn't better.
All these videos being produced are obviously all going to lead into an advertisement for their new product they must be developing
Thanks for the time and research on this topic
awesome cant wait to see more , thank you Gale
Perhaps the overfill specification is because the flat back is causing the pinion bearing to be under lubricated, and raising the level causes more fluid to hit the pinion. It was a solution to the problem created by the flat back......
i went to Jiffy Lube one time, told them not to add any diff fluid. they did any way and the rear end blew its oil seals like three days later...1970's GM 10 bolt
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Adding fluid to the point the static level above the bottom of the axle tubes is going to cause leaks on seals that would otherwise hold up.
No, cause dodge guys were having axle bearing issues back in late 90s early 2000s towing large campers, and blamed the fluid level and the stock cover on the 25-3500 diesels
Possibly they want a higher fill level due to pinion failures ?
Sounds about right
Maybe they are trying to submerge them since they don't get splash lube
If it had a rounded diff cover rather than a flat back, then maybe it never needed the higher fill level.
It creates more circulation, moving foreign particles towards the magnetic plug. Foreign particles and pitting from cavitation is what kills geared systems. These diffs and bearings don't require much lube to operate. There are so many factors being ignored here, it's comical.
Great video and your knowledge is awesome. I knew the stock cover would come out on top. Can't wait to see final outcome.
Mr. Banks still schooling us. Great job and work guys. Thanks!
So just cast a stock aluminum cover inside with fins on it.
g6qwerty most of the new heavy duty trucks have them now.
AAM already has one, just like the previous comment or stated.
@@DillonPrecisionFan Yeah, especially the newer model.
I appreciate your effort and videos, but every video I have seen, like yours, clearly shows ample quantities of gear oil where it should be. You make it sound like something really bad is occuring and making unfounded conclusions about "starving the pinion" when you can't see that happening. Of course it's not happening. It's being properly bathed in gear oil. Many aftermarket covers have cooling fins, too. That's very functional when passing through a parcel of ever-changing air. Then there are even more functional covers that actually support the internals, like LPW. Also, the term is aeration---not aereation.
It's a series! It's all leading up to end results with temps, drag, and what is and isn't getting properly lubed, are u that thick headed where u dont understand? Or u just bought a big cover a few weeks ago and are mad u wasted your money?
@@kwmiked You didn't refute a single point I made. I know many with these covers with no ill effects for many thousands of miles. It boils down to a preference, due to no evidence of a real problem.
@@noampitlik2332 go do some research! Maybe none that u know of cause they are driving 20min to work. Go research the towing community
@@kwmiked Another non-comment? Take it easy.
This is so interesting, i cant wait to see and hear the results!
This is just a fascinating series on the dynamics of differential lubrication, thanks for doing this Banks Power.
Shouldn't this video mention its paid advertising?
harder to fool people that way
Test the rockcrusher rear diff cover please! Stock round shape, not aluminum, and very thick. Wonder how it does. Like this comment so banks sees!!!!!!
Why? It's armor. It's normal shape but beefier. More than likely get hotter due being thick iron or steel.
U should just tell banks the results of all of the tests, itll save him a lot of time.
...wouldnt it be ironic if an offroad piece ends up performing better than its performance counterparts
@@d.a.r.123 it's simple science. Taking something then adding mass to it makes it a heat sink. Especially iron or steel which retains heat instead of releasing it like aluminum does. The one you talk about is basically stock inside with thicker walls and ribs. So it should work the same but should increase temps due to being thick cast steel.
@@zososldier stfu and let the man test it to get quantitative data
Great info as usual! Most people don’t realize how much work and testing is put into stock parts. Aftermarket does not test very much. Their testing is typically customer experience and feedback. Gale is the exception to the rule!
Thanks again for all your effort, it sure proves stock diff cover is the way to go.
Alright, this is turning into more hype than I was hoping for... couple of points to note, questions to ask yourself before you jump on the non OEM cover suck band wagon...
1. What is the failure rate of rear axles with non OEM covers? What is the failure rate of stock covers? You'd think if all Gale is saying is true, there'd be some mighty pissed off people out there. I haven't hear any, have you?
2. Oil aeration. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that the factory cover doesn't foam the lube? You only saw the Ford cover run to 30 mph, he didn't go to 50 like on the Dodge, so right there, that is not an equal comparison. Also I believe the Ford's lube for the half ton is thinner than the 1 ton axle. Check me, but run speed alone disqualifies this.
3. Oil aeration and lube type. Not sure how many people dive this deep into oil, but, a right angle gearbox like the rear end is horribly inefficient to start with, and thus, it requires a unique lubricant. Have you noticed that engine oil is getting thinner and thinner with new engine manufacturing tolerances getting better, while gear lube is unchanged? The whole reason it uses molasses-like oils is because the application beats the snot out of it. Even a bevel gear right angle drive uses heavy oil. It is in their nature to aerate the lube. It is accounted for by design.
4. Front bearing lubrication and amount of carryover from the pinion and tone ring. Gale is all kinds of hung up on the amount of carryover present in the system vs its relative aeration of the lube. It's a flood system... whether you flood it an inch deep or a foot deep, once the shaft and bearing is covered, that's it, you're not going to lubricate it any more or better. Being that the inside of a rear axle housing pretty much looks like the inside of a blender at normal highway speeds, the lube is gonna have air in it. Nothing you can do about it. The addition of additional fluid, as added by the increased cover depth isn't going to change this by any appreciable amount up or down. I do agree running higher level to fill the tubes is a dumb idea. The added lube just give more working fluid to absorb heat. Point I'm trying to make here is that as long as the ring and tone ring are throwing oil forward to the slot for the pinion bearings and gear mesh interface as a flood lubrication system, it doesn't matter where the oil frees itself from the pinion.
Bottom line is look at the failure rate of stock vs non stock covered differentials, but also temper that against stock vs non stock tuning as well. Over power rating of the axle will kill it no matter what cover is on it.
I would agree 100% I wish more people read good informative comments. But marketing sells
kleetus92 I know plenty of people who tow heavy fivers over western mountain passes regularly, with stock diff covers. GM, Ford, and Ram trucks. None of them has failed a diff, all of them have run stock diff covers. First thing that goes on the Fords and Rams is the gearbox (excepting the newer Rams with the Aisin commercial truck trans). The GM trucks don’t seem to blow running gear at the same rate, they burn up the emissions system, ancillaries, and interior electrics.
Dunno about where you live, but the trucks I see with diff covers are bro dozers that don’t actually tow heavy. The farm truck with the 30-ft gooseneck and a big Kubota on it? Stock diff cover. Exceptions to this are exceedingly rare.
DucFanDan no argument here. Only thing I'm trying to say is, is this a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and if you're going to talk about comparisons of conditions, at least make them all the same. By the way, love the term Bro-Dozers.. I gotta remember that!
I know all you guys are stroking yourself to what this guys is saying, but if you truly analyze what he is saying, it doesn't make sense. The fluid is going somewhere, it is going to the pinion. His hypothesis is already set and his theory is not changing. He thinks a flat back is detrimental to the design. So he shows results that reflect his opinion. He is not taking into account that the oil being splashed on the back is spreading the oil evenly to the aluminium which is transferring heat. This action way offsets all the "heat" he thinks is being created. News flash - Heat is created by the steel meshing, not by the oil sloshing around. There is no friction between a viscous oil moving against itself. Why is he not taking temperatures of the axle in different areas? He is going by what it looks like. Listen, I own and love Banks products, but he spends a lot of time with this over thought out "quiet genius" when what he is proposing makes no difference at all.
I'm sure with this series of videos, we'll know for sure. Any time you pump a fluid, you cause it to heat up. Dead head your power steering - force the oil through the bypass, it WILL heat up. You're doing work to the fluid.
There most definitely is friction between a viscous oil moving against itself. If there wasn't, torque converters wouldn't heat up when you drive. And both frictional and viscous losses cause reduce efficency (i.e. convert energy that could be used to drive the tires into heat).
Of more concern with the flat-backed design is cavitation, where turbulence caused by massive changes in direction cause fluid pressure to drop to the point where large bubbles form and then collapse, which can cause metal damage long-term. The shape of the stock covers minimizes turbulence.
I think he'll come up with an aluminum cover with an inner shape similar to stock and outer fins to increase outer surface area to increase cooling efficiency. If he was smart, he'd figure out how the air is flowing around the rear axle and use computation fluid dynamic simulation to determine the best way to direct the air using the fin design.
I can't say that I know anything about starved pinions and pinion bearings, but it does seem silly for a design to add turbulence, which heats up the gear oil and increases parasitic losses due to friction. Just saying.....
Excellent video Gale and team. Sharing it.
Thanks Gale for helping fill my TH-cam addiction with informative videos. I like the Monster advertisement also.
How did i just now find this channel? Great content! Keep it up!
Really glad someone did some real research on it as I had a feeling those things were no good at had lots of problems with them They also have a magnet on the into the dipstick to pick up crud and it's right next to where the fluid comes up and goes over to the ring gears I'm sure it takes that particles of metal and throw them right back into the gear set
Been following this with great interest. I’ve argued with my buddies for years over these big diff covers. Love that he is taking on the challenge scientifically to either prove or disprove the theory. And he is listening to our input. If they find and produce a better than stock cover, I’ll be on line to spend my hard earned money on that one. Cause I know he won’t be producing a product just for the sake of doing it to make the fast buck on an unproven design and slapping the Banks name on it. Hats off to you sir.
just facts and products that work that is all. PLEASE continue this quality work
Awesome information. I've always theorized that most aftermarket diff covers cause undue work to the oil and theorized that overfilling (as recommended by the diff cover manufacturers) causes excessive aeration of the fluid. Because of this I've always run stock or stock style diff covers in all of the off-road trucks I've build over the years. What I have done is have plates of steel welded to stock diff covers to provide protection from rocks, etc; especially at the front axle and at the bottom of the rear axle cover (where rocks can rip open stock diff covers when sliding over them).
I've had numerous "discussions" with guys in the local off-road club who think they are helping things by running these aftermarket diff covers and overfilling (especially with guys who haul their trail rig to the trail and install them on the tow vehicle). I don't think I've convinced any of them but maybe these videos by Gale Banks will help...
One thing I'm no so sure of though is if aftermarket diff covers actually starve pinion bearings. I suspect there is still plenty of oil slinging off the ring gear at high speeds that "foamy oil" still gets to the pinion bearings. Every differential I've taken apart has always had plenty of oil in the pinion lube pockets, regardless of which differential cover was installed. The fact that the oil is so badly aerated is why I believe both the R&P gears and all of the bearings only suffer with these overfilled aftermarket covers and that stock is much better at providing lubrication.
Wow, banks! I appreciated you so so so much. Thank you, dearly.
Gale Banks is the goat! Thank you for this!
Pretty damn excited for part 3
Great vid Content. Keep up the great work G Banks! Keep the content coming!
Keep these great videos coming. Thanks.
I think the clear is pretty cool. can always see you have fluid and the color.
Ok must admit I took the hook on the aluminum cover and additional fluid on my 14 Ram 1/2 ton. I do a lot of towing and thinking to go back to stock cover. Thank you for the research and publication of it. Very informative.
Don't go back to stock just yet. Wink wink.
I would like to give you a big warm thank you for doing these tests. You are dispelling many myths in the aftermarket world by hard science. I can see why your company has become a solid name if you are standing behind it. Although Banks Performance does not make any parts for any of my cars at the moment (Nissan/Infinity/Honda) you give people the confidence to buy your product, which is something many new businesses do not know how to do. Thanks again.
Love this level of attention to detail.
What a great teacher Gale would make,a great engineer that can explain things in understandable terms gets my vote every time.The real miracle is how the bearings and pinion arn't worn out after a few thousand miles with this flat back design,the manufacturers should probably make washing machines or milkshake machines!😀✌👍
Gale Banks sir you went above and beyond with these different vids!!!
Thanks Gale!!!! This is why I like and trust Banks products!!!
I have been searching for one of those diffs covers for my truck. Priced the front and rear for my truck and was gonna be $800 Canadian. I'm so glad I watched your vid.. Just saved me $800 plus the $3000 to rebuild my diffs after running it..
Thank you for asking the questions that nobody else thinks to ask, and finding the answers.
ill like to see the heat differences. and thanks for your job and honesty.
Keeping my stock diff covers on my Jeep Rubicon Recon Edition. They’re beefy enough for me and designed properly.
Thanks Banks ! Great stuff.
Fantastic video series. You have earned a subscribe. Please keep it up!
Excellent video, cant wait for the next one.
Fantastic information once again!