The Pattern 1800 Baker Rifle: Firing Positions from Period Texts

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
  • Testing out some of the positions as found in period texts and artwork.
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ความคิดเห็น • 125

  • @sandmanhh67
    @sandmanhh67 8 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Bonus points for the use of "embuggerance"
    great vid mate and keep up the excellent content.

    • @sandmanhh67
      @sandmanhh67 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      +sandmanhh67 sorry for the double whammy post
      how about a vid on "tap loading"?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      +sandmanhh67 Yes, great word that... As for tap loading, it would be very difficult to tap load a Baker with anything but a VERY small ball... There is a great video on the subject by "csadler" on TH-cam.

  • @capandball
    @capandball 10 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Excellent info!

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      ***** Thank you. Have you tried the supine position with your Volunteer or one of your buffalo rifles? It would make for a good feature in one of your videos, I should think. Cheers.

  • @nate-otero
    @nate-otero 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Whenever I hear the “last post” played in your videos I feel very melancholy, I can’t help but always connect it to Anzac Day

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ...and every other Commonwealth ceremony of Remembrance... :-)

  • @knallis.hjemmelading
    @knallis.hjemmelading 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I want to thank you for all you do for making this history so alive Greetings from Norway

  • @happy_camper
    @happy_camper 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    This channel has become an instant favourite. Well done sir!

  • @foowashere
    @foowashere 10 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Perhaps one of the most charming youtubes ever. Noticable well edited too. I'm much looking forward to your updates.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว

      foowashere Thanks for your kind words. I am glad that you found something that you liked in it. Cheers.

  • @Majorofhistory
    @Majorofhistory 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent research and demonstrations!

  • @vajake1
    @vajake1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your knowledge of and presentation on this information is foremetable! You are clear, concise, and accurate! Well done! Very enjoyable to watch!

  • @lickitysplit4711
    @lickitysplit4711 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I love these kind of videos you make as it is very important, im sure you would agree, to preserve history such as this and also it's very interesting.

  • @jonwithnoh7
    @jonwithnoh7 10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video, well done as always.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jon with no h , a shootology channel Thanks Jon. Glad you liked it.

  • @eco-beehive
    @eco-beehive 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Embuggerence !! What a fantastic word!!

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Glad that you found something remarkable in the video! Cheers.

    • @eco-beehive
      @eco-beehive 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think this is probably the best place to ask, there are pictures of "Cape Mounted Rifles" with baker rifles as well as a "side by side" any one have any ideas what the double rifle is?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      There were a series of double barrelled carbines specially issued to the CMR. They were flintlock and later percussion lock with rifling coming in the 1850s.

    • @eco-beehive
      @eco-beehive 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      britishmuzzleloaders thank you for your response. I’ll contact a few museums here in the uk. Ps it’s the flint that is interesting as I know one of my ancestors arrived in the cape in about 1817 and had one

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      A bit of info just by googling "Cape mounted Rifles double barrelled carbine."

  • @kvarnerinfoTV
    @kvarnerinfoTV 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    3:10 - this is the position I was taught as kid while training shooting with BB gun.

  • @teec3385
    @teec3385 10 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Brilliant and well researched, Thank you.:)

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks. Had a good time trying that supine position.

    • @rmjackaman
      @rmjackaman 10 ปีที่แล้ว

      britishmuzzleloaders Supine? With that barrel length? Self inflicted foot wound! Love your work and the cultural connection. A Britain from Australia. Born here but connected with the Empire!!! At the risk of being cheeky, can you lay hands on a Ferguson or a 1776 Infantry rifle?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว

      Trust me. There was a lot of foot checking and choking up the sling helped keep the toes inside the muzzle.... I am afraid that it's a no for a Ferguson but I am half way through a 1776 Rifle (I have stalled a bit) So no video of it for a quite some time... Glad you like the clip

  • @RabidMortal1
    @RabidMortal1 10 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    "an embuggerance of the highest degree" :)

  • @troyreynolds4520
    @troyreynolds4520 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looks like you have that bakers lock tuned pretty good. Enjoyed the video.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      Troy Reynolds The Rifle Shoppe puts out a good product. It needed an little filing and "relieving" to stop some minor rubbing but the springs are stout and the throw is good and positive. It is a military pattern lock though, and isn't as quick as a sporting version with finer proportions. Cheers.

  • @blackandgus
    @blackandgus 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another excellent video. I wish all the fans of novels like the Sharpe's series or other books and movies based on the era would take a little time to learn about the arms, shooting techniques, and accoutrements of the soldiers. It would add enormously to their appreciation and enjoyment of the stories.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hopefully videos like this go some ways to achieving that.

  • @rangerousdave
    @rangerousdave 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. Landscape looks a lot like the Squamish-Lillooet forest district.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  9 ปีที่แล้ว

      rangerousdave Glad you liked it. As for the location, it could be pretty much anywhere on the South Coast, but you sound as though you are talking with a certain amount of familiarity :-)

  • @leithafae
    @leithafae 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    with respect up to the 1816 the british army I believe called them the regimental cap when it came to the hat you refer to as a shako. I use the infantry rifled musket. They are great as long as bone dry and not too much residue in the barrel. When we did 200 anniversary of waterloo I fired 130 shots in two hours with one of these and most of them were double charges gave to us by other group when we ran out of ammo with the 3rd division. It was an incredible feeling and for most the battle I was adopting mostly either a seated position the back foot to fire as I found this supported my rifle really well and I do take my time to do the proper aiming procedure until we got to the part where there was no vision for the fog of powder. I also used the kneeling and standing positions and preferred the seated position when we were positioned for long periods. But as horses were running around we were keen to be seen. But love this video. I also love your movies on the martini henry rifle.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +leithafae Very glad that you enjoyed this and the others. Thanks. Yes, I do make mention of the "shako" at 7:45... Sounds like you had a good time and Waterloo. I was there as a spectator. So you have a Baker? Do you fire yours live? When you fire live, the greased patch has the effect of keeping the barrel relatively clean. Any trouble happens when you take a break and the fouling has time to dry out. Then the next round is greatly impeded down the barrel. Cheers.

    • @leithafae
      @leithafae 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      tbf we had a bloke at the end who went to show clear and found he couldn't eject the ramrod due to fouling. I put mine down small end first instead and still had to use both hands to withdraw the ramrod. I know two others had the same issue. We had to use a kettle of boiling water each barrel and a bit more to get them clear of residue. Horrible when you look at how much was used. The barrels became so hot the wood sweated oil. firing blank we do put paper down as wading. I haven't got it on fac but do want to at some point to try, unfortunately uk rifled barrels are around 1300 pounds which is too steep for me. But I have to say it was probably the most incredible experience ever. I know I went through four flints in the one battle and another person seven. I also find if you wipe the pan after a few shots it significantly cuts down on problems for the weapon. Do you find boiling a weapon out with out using powder solvent better as I have been told many swear by it but I am still unsure.
      I feel powder solvent does do a job and makes life a lot easier in the long run. Did you see any of it in the spectator stands and did you enjoy the experience?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      +leithafae Too bad about not firing your Baker. Unfortunately, no amount of blank firing can produce the learning and skills needed to make these work and hit their target consistently. I would whole-heartedly encourage you to get yours on your FAC and give er a try... 1300 pounds seems like a lot for a barrel... Kranks? Dyson has them for 400... plus fitting. No need for fancy solvents and the like,... I use hot soapy water to clean my barrels in all my rifles. Put the breech in a bucket of it and with a tight fitting jag and patch, pump the rod up and down, which also cleans the touch hole. Finish with some WD40 and gun oil. Waterloo was a good time. Too many people for me though. Was very happy I was there but also happy that I had been there before on a previous trip, with the entire battlefield all to myself.. :-) The parking arrangements were horrendous... we packed a supper for after the show(s) and sat at the car and watched the show of people trying to leave..... Good times. Cheers.

    • @leithafae
      @leithafae 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      Took us till midnight to get back to our camp lol. We were knackered and ready for chilling out.
      Peter Dyson was charging 1300 when I looked for his baker rifle. 300 is a lot but I would love to have a rifled barrel and do some firing with it. Kranks only do shotgun versions from my understanding. We did watch the cars going home on the march back. It was incredible.
      When I have the money I would love t have a rifled baker it'd be fascinating to see how they shoot compared to martini's and enfields.

  • @dwi2921
    @dwi2921 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interestingly, while seemingly little known, the sitting position was (I think) demonstrated (either by my instructor or within the pages of CFSC book) during my application for my PAL.
    Granted, this was in 2018, so I may be mistaken, but I also seem to recall some praise being heaped upon this position.

  • @theoldehandgonne2503
    @theoldehandgonne2503 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    No wonder I didn't hit the center of the 200 yard bailer with the Bess... I didn't employ the Plunket supine position!
    Something to test this year...
    As always, good stuff. It's quite interesting to see how a channel evolves over time.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Don’t worry... it’s way over rated... of all ones I tried, only one was marginally effective.. the rest were complete junk.

    • @theoldehandgonne2503
      @theoldehandgonne2503 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@britishmuzzleloaders Disregarding how awkward they may be, I still need some excuse...

  • @razor1uk610
    @razor1uk610 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ouch, the 'bionic' level of stength needed to raise up from the cross legged postion made me sympathetically wince at the prospect of risking crushed gooseberries sir !! ye-gads!!

  • @Garyoppolis
    @Garyoppolis 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've never attempted shooting from the supine position, but it occurs to me that it would prove a useful alternative to the prone when firing from a forward slope i.e. the ground you are on sloping downhill with your target to the front but at the same level as you. Firing from the prone in such a position puts unnatural strain on the neck and forces you to contort your body to bring the rifle on to the target. I've certainly found the sitting position to offer similar advantages over the kneeling in such a situation.
    The picture of Plunkett seems to hint at him firing from a downward slope in just such a fashion.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Garyoppolis Agreed. It takes a bit of practice finding out which way to put your legs and such, I have found. Once you have nailed down a technique, you just have to watch out for your toes! Cheers.

    • @simonferrer
      @simonferrer 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      That seems feasible. I do have to wonder whether the riflemen would have taken his kit off for this position. It seems like a specialized position for a target at extended range, which would imply a little more time to set up the shot than normal. The period depiction of Rifleman Plunkett may not be accurate in detail; prior to photography, battlefield depictions were subject to artistic license, often by illustrators who weren't there or had never seen a battlefield.

  • @gavingaming123
    @gavingaming123 10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video and very informative, can I ask where you got your Baker rifle ? It's a beauty. Thanks for the vid. See you through the smoke!

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you. The rifle is a kit from the Rifle Shoppe. I made it over the course of a summer. Great project and only needed simple hand tools. Cheers.

  • @grendelgrendelsson5493
    @grendelgrendelsson5493 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    A few points; 1, I've only ever heard me say "embuggerance"; 2, another great video and 3, whilst watching the video my "Soldiers Accoutrements of the British Army" arrived from Australia!! I ordered it from Australia because the only one I could find in England was priced at nearly £2,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an embuggerance to purchasing!!

  • @rexpontiff1001
    @rexpontiff1001 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sharpe would be proud! Bloody good shooting sir!

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  ปีที่แล้ว

      Who?

    • @rexpontiff1001
      @rexpontiff1001 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@britishmuzzleloaders Richard Sharpe? From the series Sharpe - books by Bernard Cornwell, and a television programme starring Sean Bean.

  • @exohead1
    @exohead1 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    THat was really cool to watch! I would imagine that using the shako as a support would not have been something that was done "on the fly" as it were, and more likely used in a position where you were prone for an extended period? I admit, battlefield tactics of the period are not my forte, so I am unsure when and how it would actually be employed.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I believe that it is shown as an option... rather than a standard way to adopt the prone position.

  • @99jws
    @99jws 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've read that it was a practice for troops to dig a small hole next to their firing position, when shooting prone. This was to drop the butt of the musket into, to angle the muzzle upward, to make loading easier while staying prone. I don't know if this was part of army doctrine, or the troops just figured out on their own. It would be interesting to see how well it worked.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Where did you read this, Jeff?

    • @99jws
      @99jws 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I knew you were going to ask me that! Advancing age forces me to admit, I don't remember. I know it was in a military context, as a field expedient, in defensive positions. The idea, as I remember, was a shallow hole or trench, to drop the butt of the rifle lower. I'll try to come up with a reference. Great videos, by the way!

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cheers. If you find it, I'd like to see it. Back then, nobody carried a shovel except in siege operations... so as an expedient position it would be very difficult... Defensive positions in this era tended to be non-dug in (trenches vs large scale fortification, mind you)... Like at Waterloo. The 95th's position in the sandpit might be the closest to what you are talking about... but they were there simply manning a large depression in the ground.

  • @KowboyUSA
    @KowboyUSA 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Predecessor to the late 19th century Creedmore position.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Perhaps popular at Creedmore, but used all over the world before those ranges even existed... one might also call the supine position the Hythe or Wimbledon position.... :-)

  • @sugarnads
    @sugarnads 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Question: flintlock v firing cap. Which is faster to reload and fire? Is the cap that much more reliable for ignition of charge?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      There really isn't a difference in loading.. reliability, especially in bad weather is decidedly in the favour of the percussion system

  • @andybelcher1767
    @andybelcher1767 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superb Rob. I had to laugh at the Six Million Dollar Man sound effect. As Canadian dollars are less than US is that how you made it look so easy? Canadians being tougher? :-)

  • @stewbacca117
    @stewbacca117 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Those look suspiciously like Oakley SI 6" combat boots?
    My preferred fare of the last decade or so

  • @knallis.hjemmelading
    @knallis.hjemmelading 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You have an incredible amount of nolich I hope I spelled that right

  • @par4par72
    @par4par72 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Check out this Schuetzen style.

  • @notarokescientist3003
    @notarokescientist3003 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    which specific model of Baker did you build from the Rifle Shop?

  • @50TNCSA
    @50TNCSA 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    the sling on the forearm ( the earlier one not the the one seen at 4:12) seems similar to the use of the american 1907 sling

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว

      If I recall correctly the 1907 sling did loop around the armpit... There is a clip here on YT of a training film showing the use of it... It is why the sling is seemingly looped back and forth on itself... Essentially it turns the sling into a single point sling from the armpit to the front swivel... If you search for M1 Garand Sling (which I think is the same) you will find it. I am pretty sure that this is the one you are talking about, no? Cheers.

    • @50TNCSA
      @50TNCSA 10 ปีที่แล้ว

      yep model 1907 sling is the same sling on the garand

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  10 ปีที่แล้ว

      50TNCSA I figured it was. (though I am not up to speed on American nomenclature) Ingenious design, if a little complicated for use in action by the masses.

    • @50TNCSA
      @50TNCSA 10 ปีที่แล้ว

      britishmuzzleloaders yep it takes lil getting use to but it worth it at longer ranges as the us army even said to only be used as a loop sling if you have the time too ....

  • @louiscifer5438
    @louiscifer5438 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Intéressant...

  • @hoatattis7283
    @hoatattis7283 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    what was Plunketts shot I have heard 300yds to 700 yds but shooters from my Military group say that it was not more than 150 yards

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I say from 150 to 200yds... that's where repeatable accuracy comes in... There are a series of videos exploring shooting at these ranges (and 300yds) if you are interested.

  • @zekestone
    @zekestone 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice boots, who manufactures them?

  • @rafeer4850
    @rafeer4850 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like the hat, you can shoot a musket or do some cooking with equal aplomb while wearing it.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      +Rafe Er Never though to it that way.... :-).... It is just a cover, of course.

  • @jimmymyers8753
    @jimmymyers8753 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Check out the Bi Centenary Parade of the Kings Royal Rifle Corps in Colour on You Tube . With Lee Enfields 303 .

  • @rayfeltz8477
    @rayfeltz8477 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    that is my favorite uniform, looks a tad modern though? is it even a uniform or is it just something you wear?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      The jacket is Canadian Army issue from the 1960s.

    • @rayfeltz8477
      @rayfeltz8477 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      +britishmuzzleloaders very intersting, I thought it looked a tad modern. all the old equipment is usually 3 inches of wool wrapped in leather straps. still looks pretty dashing.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ray Feltz Not supposed to be a "uniform", of course... Just a serviceable jacket for shooting... :-)

    • @rayfeltz8477
      @rayfeltz8477 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      +britishmuzzleloaders you could have fooled me but only for a little bit.:)

  • @TheLordLaing
    @TheLordLaing 9 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video. Have you read "The Recollections of Rifleman Harris"? It's an excellent account, i'd recommend it to anyone interested in the Napoleonic wars.
    You make some of those positions look slightly less awkward than the original artwork. Thanks for making and sharing.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes I have read it. Great book. That supine position is quite something.. Practice required!

  • @pancho1993
    @pancho1993 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    What's your opinion on sharpe series ?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I really enjoyed it when I was a kid.... I think I discovered and started reading them when he had just finished Sharpe's Gold... as for now, I can appreciate what they are... good stories... not history...

  • @charlesjhemphilliii4792
    @charlesjhemphilliii4792 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the pouch on Your left?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      It carries patches.... not historical but aides in routine, recreational shooting.

  • @aus71383
    @aus71383 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I know you're copying the artwork, but when I get in the low kneeling position (sitting on my rear/strong side foot) with either a hasty or loop sling, I like to try to stick my forward knee into my armpit, and have as much of my tricep as possible in contact with my shin. The artwork seems to show the front half of this body position, but with the back half at a high kneeling position. Might work well for shooting downhill?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sure, if you can bend like that, go for it... The artwork must be taken as just that.. art. So always must be taken with a grain of salt..

  • @jerrywalker9981
    @jerrywalker9981 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the name of the first quick march in the video?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Jerry Walker Hi there. I think that it is "The Lines of Torres Vedras"... from the fortifications that protected Lisbon during the Peninsular War. Cheers.

    • @jerrywalker9981
      @jerrywalker9981 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +britishmuzzleloaders Thanks awfully. Also if you got that rifle from the Rifle Shoppe was the barrel rifled and vent hole drilled or did it have to go to a gunsmith to be rendered fireable?

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +Jerry Walker Yes it is a Rifle Shoppe product. It came as a parts set... The barrel is a Green Mountain barrel and was/is rifled. I asked them to cut the dove-tails for the sights and lugs. The hole was not drilled. I did that along with everything else. The hole is behind the face of the breech plug and required a channel to be cut in the face to expose the hole to the chamber.... All in all, not a very complicated evolution... Hand tools and a power drill. No gunsmith required. Cheers.

    • @jerrywalker9981
      @jerrywalker9981 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      +britishmuzzleloaders Excellent! Good to know. I know some of the replica companies sell without rifling or vent holes. Thanks for the info

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  8 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jerry Walker To be honest, you can't begin to compare the Rifle Shoppe with ANY other place that sells repros... TRS makes their product. All others sell stuff from India or by TRS parts and make them in-house. The accuracy of their parts and quality of materials is really top drawer. Cheers.

  • @horridlm
    @horridlm 9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Embuggerance. Great word in just the right spot.

    • @britishmuzzleloaders
      @britishmuzzleloaders  9 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Ed Hollett Every so often along comes an opportunity to use it and one would be foolish not to! :-) Cheers.

  • @tombogan03884
    @tombogan03884 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    USMarines learn the sitting position by having a DI sit on his back .