The overall design and construction of the paper and patched cartridge used here (by yourself and from the historical references) have given me an inspiration for mass producing my own for my percussion muzzleloader, a .50 cal Hawken St.Louis rifle. Hope to see more videos on your channel soon.
Nice video as always. It is interesting the difference in accuracy in patched vs cartridge in the rifle, I actually got the opposite results from my smooth bore Brown Bess.
Contradictory information, disorganized and confused instruction you say. 0~o Well, noting for it then but to press on, and clear the air as it were. ^~^ Lead on good Sir, lead on.
Ah,.... the most difficult and stressful part of the build. I used a drill press, a level, and a clamp to drill the keyways through the barrel key loops with the barrel clamped in place... Three holes side by side, then finished it out with jewellers files and a knife. There is a better way using a press with a locating nail clamped to the base pointing up, matching exactly the tip of the drill bit...
A comparison between the 1800 Baker and the 1803 Harper's Ferry (the weapon of choice for the comparatively short lived US Regiment of Rifleman) would make a very interesting video indeed.
@@mpetersen6 The Hawken was produced for the large game (particularly bears) that trappers were running into out West. Hence it was typically a heavy caliber, like a .54 with a heavier bullet than the Pennsylvania or Kentucky rifle. Trying to compare the Baker to the long rifle isn't quite fair as one was built just for military use and the other for hunting and target shooting.
Good Day to you Sir! First of all I want to say I really like your videos and style. I was wondering which company did you get your Baker Rifle from? So far I've only managed to find a smoothbore version for reenactment...
You and Duelist1954 have infected me, I just ordered my first Flintlock Rifle kit. My second one will be a TRS Baker, but my first has family significance and is similar to what the 95th would have faced in New Orleans. I ordered one of Jim Kiblers beautiful Southern Mountain Rifles, it is a Western North Carolina styled Rifle while Andy Jackson's Tennessee Rifles and my family would have used the similar East Tennessee style rifles. Anyway I now have your peculiar disease and I hope you are happy ;)
Interestingly enough, I have yet to uncover anything indicating fast marching until the 20th century. Plenty of Rifles' specific mention in the Victorian pams, but never anything regarding marching. The tunes are a mix of Light Infantry and Rifles stuff.
Excellent presentation. As Sharpe says "All you have to do is stand, and fire three rounds a minute. Now you and I know you can fire three rounds a minute...... But can you stand?" :)
The 1803 rifle the Lewis and Clark expedition used is similar if not identical in application to the baker rifle that was adopted in the year 1800 by the British Army especially the 95th rifle regiment at Waterloo in 1815
Did the British never use a loading block? This is a block of wood with maybe a half dozen holes in it the diameter of the bore. A patched ball was place in each hole. This was apparently common among "Kentucky" riflemen and would certainly shave a few seconds off the loading. Also, I admire your devotion to authenticity, but you should wear safety glasses!
Are you planning on making the part 2 of this video soon ? Have you talked about paper cartridges containing a patch for a rifle in some of your other videos ? Anyway, I really liked this video, thanks.
love your videos.i was wondering when the troops were preparing there ammo in camp they would have access to animal fat .would they have a pot of melted fat and dipped the ball end with paper in to the fat as a lubricant ? would like to know your thoughts . would it foul up more .thinking what I would do if I was a one of them. But I don't have the experience of a Neopolionic soldier .
Hi there. Round ball cartridges intended to be fired without patching were not lubricated. They were small enough not to need any. As for lubricating patches, tallow would have been supplied...
I sense if a Soldier from the 60th or 95Th was to fire on the ground he would need assistance from a fellow soldier to load for him , and hand over the Musket ? If on campaign at the end of the day , would he have to restock his pouch ,would they be re-supplied from the rear supplies or he would be making his own crudely through the night( including paper cartridge method ) ??
No, one can load in their back with some difficulty depending on the ammunition used. There are many more Baker videos on the Channel if you are interested. Many of the things you ask about are covered therein ... Ammunition was supplied, although the knowledge of how to make it (it's very simple) was known to all for use in emergencies..
Rob, I wonder if the decision to cease the issue of the patched ball and powder half way through the Napoleonic was was, in some way related to the change in the nature of the war. The Peninsular Campaign was a war of skirmishing and often smaller independent units, by the time the war had moved to Flanders, the nature of the war had changed to open rolling and flat countryside suitable for line battle? Probably nothing in it and who knows, perhals individual riflemen kept their own patch and ball, especially if they were marksmen.
I imagine that the reasoning behind forgoing the issue of separate patch and ball was due to the lack of need for it. Though, to categorize the whole Peninsular War in one way would be much too general. The use of patched ball cartridges (as examined int he subsequent parts of this series) became a much easier and expedient method.
When you get around to the follow up, I would be interested in seeing loose but preached ball especially when the patch has been cut in a cross shape. I am not sure how to adhere the patch to the ball. Possibly beeswax? Thank you for the great videos!
Hi there. I am experimenting with a number of types of patched ball cartridge right now and that style is one of them. The key is to get the shape right so it completely seals the bore, at least that's the way I'm approaching it!... Cheers.
Though apparently not Period, might not lubing the paper cartridge, smoothbore style, help Windage and Accuracy ? I would think that there had to be an army somewhere, that tried this.
Smoothbore (unmatched round ball) cartridges were not lubricated... As this series deals with service ammunition, I used that which closely resembled the historical.
So I have always heard of the in accuracy of the Brown bess. Now I shoot an English style Fowler with a patched ball and i find the accuracy good enough for killing size groups out to 75 yards. So, if the brown bess were loaded this way, at least for the first shot and the shot well aimed, it would cause far more casualties and death. Did they not ever patch their muskets this way?, i realize that cloth was costly, but for an army it would be a cheap expense in the scheme of things
Great shooting! We all seem to be getting pretty consistent results with our rb tests. The Baker's group seems a little wider than I was able to get, however my '42 has a much longer barrel. I can't wait to get my hands on one of Pedersolis new Whitworths!
+murpheysmuskets Thanks Murph. That Whitworth will make for a few good videos, eh?! I imagine that the longer barrel (and the percussion lock especially) would make for a much better grouping.
Seems like the biggest difference between the reloading done in the vid with paper cartridges, and the reloading done in the Sharpe's Universe (which I think is portrayed as a method used and taught by him alone), is that he bites and rips off the bullet, then primes the pan, pour the rest down the barrel, stuff down the paper, and finally the ball is spat down into the muzzle to be rammed or tapped down. In the show he was teaching basic infantry; those using the Brown Bess, so wasn't demonstrating with patches. For when accuracy is needed, I think either the powder horn method was used, or I suppose the ball was spat onto a patch on the muzzle so as to be rammed down with it. I sort of recall the patches being made of leather rather than cloth, but that might be incorrect. I wonder, on average, how many rounds must be fired from a Bess before tap loading can no longer be done safely, with the ball likely ending up stuck only partially into the barrel, which is of course a very dangerous proposition. For that matter, I wonder if it differs much for the Baker Rifle. Something tells me that with the rifling, the Baker would get gummed up more quickly without using patches. It's certainly mentioned however that the Baker Rifle can be used like a Brown Bess if not given a patch. It won't bite into the rifling, resulting in not nearly as much accuracy, but its faster, and 3 shots per minute is precisely what he focused on for the smoothbore infantry. I think when he demonstrates it in the book Sharpe's Rifles, he either JUST managed to fire a 4th shot, or was JUST on his way to ramming down the ball for his 4th shot when Harper called 60 seconds. In Cornwell's The Fort, I distinctly recall a British Officer, I think a young Lieutenant, demonstrating 5 rounds in 1 minute. He cheats though; stabs his ramrod into the ground for easier access. His muscle memory must not have been a hair out of place, because even with ramrod at such a ready position, 5 shots in a minute is God-like. Based during the American War for Independence, 1779 specifically. Incredible stuff. Even in using the 'tap loading' method of reloading, that kind of rate of fire must be nearly impossible. Years upon years of practice, hundreds, if not thousands of rounds fired. Day in and day out, until it comes as naturally as breathing, or as drinking the booze provided in daily rations... ahh, that would have been a big plus for encouraging me to join the Military if I was around back in the day. Regular meals with drink provided daily (when possible)? Where do I sign up?! I've made and eaten ship's biscuits/hardtack before, letting it soak in coffee or tea helps the flavour, specifically tea. Just hope that it doesn't result in a 'Barret's Privateers' situation, being left a young legless man on a Pier, in the case of the Navy. For those who survive amputation in the Army, the first destination upon 'retirement' was likely the nearest pub, I figure. Savings likely wouldn't last long, I doubt there was a pension back then, so if a man lacking a lower limb couldn't find a job that didn't require much mobility, or if a man missing an arm couldn't find a job that didn't require two hands, becoming a homeless beggar would likely have been the outcome I figure, ESPECIALLY if it was merely a young Private or Corporal, someone not born a gentleman, who didn't buy their way into being an Officer, who didn't have a rich family to care for him. Rough times... but damn fascinating all the same.
+NormanMatchem Search for "csadler" on youtube... He is a member of a re-enactment group in Australia portraying the 95th... They have done a great series of videos on similar subjects... including spit loading. Loading with anything but paper cartridge was not used with the Brown Bess... No patch, no wads,.... nothing except the method used in this clip... When I get around to lugging the Bess out for a video, I'll demonstrate it. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Yeah I've seen a few of their vids, great stuff. They also tested that tapping method vs using a ramrod. If memory serves, while the tapping was faster, it didn't seat the ball as nicely, resulting in less velocity (A chronograph was used, of course). With the ball patted down against the powder with a ramrod, it helped to propel the projectile with a bit more 'oomph'. A vid of theirs I recently seen was about shooting the ramrod from the Baker Rifle, like what Harper did in the show. Not much distance; about 8m with a standard powder charge, 16m with a double powder charge, so with a half charge of powder as used in the show, it's likely only about 4m of distance would be gotten. Doubtful that it would provide the velocity needed to pierce someone's throat. More dramatization.
Could a cartrage be made such as its pushed down the bore it passes some blade shaped like a vegtable skinner grabs the edges of the paper and causes the paper cartrage rip open at the back dumping the powder down the barrel and possably fold onto itself for a tighter seal?
That's a nice looking rifle. I dont have any experience with any of the British or Canadian arms. I'm from Maryland and used to running around the Pennsylvania and Virginia woods with a long rifle, a Hawken or at times a Zouave rifle of American Civil War time. I'm in Kansas now, however. Just came across your channel, very enjoyable.
Awesome and informative as usual. great job. I look forward to the follow up video to this one. I guess I need to start saving my pennies - just have to get myself one of the kits so I too can have an example of my all time favourite flintlock firearm.
Interesting video. I remember visiting Waterloo and the guide told us the KGL at La Haye Sainte ran out of ammo because the Baker rifle used a smaller round and the Brown Bess ammo was incompatible. I would have hated to of been them!
It's important to know that not all the KGL were armed with the Baker. Only a fraction. There were the Light Bns and the Sharpshooters of the Light Companies of the Line Bns. That said, these were the troops (about 400) who mainly garrisoned the farm.
I am curious if you are concerned with getting any sparks in your eyes when you shoot. What are your feelings on the various black powder substitutes that are available. Where do you get your Black Powder? Sorry about the questions. Great video as usual.
Having experience only with modern firearms, I'm surprised at the accuracy (or lack thereof by modern standards) of the rifle with patched ball. I wasn't exactly expecting sub-MOA, but about eight MOA? Wow. I'm not even sure they could sell an eight minute rifle these days. Also, I wonder if using a Minie ball would make a difference. I know it isn't quite period accurate, but I would imagine that a better projectile would give you more accuracy.
That's history... The point here, is not to get the absolute most out of the Baker in any way, it's to get the most out of it historically... no expanding ball....
@@britishmuzzleloaders It was interesting either way. You read about the "pinpoint accuracy" of these old rifles, I was kinda shocked at how poor it is by modern standards. Then again, I think I read somewhere that a Brown Bess would hold something like 40 MOA, so that is a massive improvement.
It was taunting me all day..... whimsically fluttering in the breeze, distracting me from my shooting, saying "Oooo, Ooooo, Ooooo, betchyou can't hit me!"
Oh all the silly things when you realize that someone who you just started watching on TH-cam from the oddest sets of chance hails from your own backyard. If real estate signs can be believed.
Hi there. Option 1- Get a parts set from the Rifle Shoppe and make it yourself. Option 2- Get TRS to make it for you $$$$$..... Option 3- Get a repro and have a new barrel put on it. All reproduction Bakers are smoothbore at this time.
I have this insane idea of taking one of the Loyalist Arms / Military Heritage / Historical Twist etc. India-made smoothbore Bakers and sleeving it into a .45 rifle, what do you think? I have a couple Bess' that I really enjoy shooting & reenacting with and in the last few years the quality is very improved.
+Jordan Kipp As a man who enjoys military history, and what the arms of the period were like and how they were used, I would say,..... No, to sleeving a Baker... If you want to shoot a 45cal flintlock, get a Hawkens... :-)... What kind of Besses do you have?
+britishmuzzleloaders Sorry for the delay. I'm in Hamilton, Ont and there is a local store here that does a lot of reenactor supply & historical reproductions, Spencers Mercantile. They source their muskets from Loyalist Arms / Military Heritage / Historical Twist (
Can't say I fancy a foot drill music on a background - but I'm a fan, and it's always a pleasure to listen to an expert! Speaking of Sean Bean's performance - is it anywhere near practical to roll a loose naked ball down the barrel of the Baker rifle as it's shown in "Sharpe's Rifles" - without using a ramrod, just tapping the butt on a ground? Or it's just a cinematic exaggeration? Thought that gas sealing is somewhat essential in firearm, though, so it demands a tight fit for the ball...
I did. Guys are awesome, but they've tried it with smooth-bore musket... Still wondering, would the tap nesting work with the rifled barrel? In other videos you mention balls of various calibers - when explaining loose patched ball and the cartridge. Perhaps, 22ga ball should roll in nicely - and I trust that ball will even leave the barrel when fired - but would it go straight and deliver enough energy with such a loose fit and no sealing at all?
Here's the deal... in order for this to work, you have to bite off the bullet from the top of the cartridge which entails a bunch of powder in the mouth... .... and of course a lead ball in your mouth... then you have to swirl it around in there to get the paper and string off.... biting into it and "chewing" the paper off... All this while you are pouring the powder down the barrel... then with any last bits of paper removed with the fingers in the mouth, you can spit the ball down the barrel... The ball is capable of rolling down the barrel, but the process isn't as easy (or indeed healthy) as one might think.
HI there. The paper is 100% rag. It's a brand that I used to use for my Pritchett cartridges that I had lying around. Printer paper tends to be a bit on the thick and tough to rip side when rolled up in multiple layers, I have found.
I sometimes use paper cartridges in my early Virginia flintlock rifle. I dip the ball end of the paper cartridge in SPG lube. Then when loading, I ram the ball down with the lube dipped paper around the ball. This helps some with windage and fouling, but I still wipe the bore between shots. Groups are very good at 35-40 yards. Never tried them at longer ranges. Average spread is about 2-3 inches. 50 cal. 175 grain ball with 60 grains ffg.
The lube will certainly help, especially if the windage is tight. In a military context, there wasn't any used on cartridges, though. Outside of historical shooting, anything goes, of course! Cheers.
There is one thing that I can't figure out. And that is why no one thought to use a round nose cylindrical projectile much earlier than they appeared historically. And if so would they perform much better? The concept just seems so obvious in hind sight
I haven't. Not for any other reason than it isn't historical. On a similar topic, the Russians upgraded their Brunswick ammo with a two lugged, conical bullet in the 1840s and 50s... they used it in the Crimea.
Another great video mate!!! Are there any black powder magazines published in Canada or the US that you know of? I can't seem to find any in jolly GB!!!!
A quick question @britishmuzzleloaders is the method off of Sharpe (bite,pour,spit,tap) viable or is it a method they made up for the show? If you could reply that would be great. I love the videos!
@@britishmuzzleloaders OS COURSE !!!! Thanks for answering me. I'm looking about these cause im makeing a RPG campaign in GURPS about the peninsular war. This materia is being very helpfull
You explained that the paper of the cartridge formed a "Rudimentary Sabot" at about 9:40 Was this by design or by lucky happenstance with the design of the paper cartridge?
Hi there. Since paper cartridges evolved from systems like the "12 Apostles" or other loose powder systems, I would think that the sabot effect would have been an unintended benefit. That said, it is a very rudimentary and not completely effective sabot.
Another great vid mate and a big thanks Also a thanks for inspiring me, with your Snider vid, to buy my first non-flintlock gun for my collection at an auction last weekend - an 1865 .577 Snider action rifle by London Arms Co., 35,1/2 ins full stocked three banded barrel Its a real beauty in lovely condition - shame of it is it will only ever sit on the wall with my other guns - no firing them for me as Im a Brit. Cheers again mate and looking forward to more in the Snider series.
+sandmanhh67 Nice to hear about your Snider... You should really make some enquiries at a local club and jump through hoops to get your licence... You won't regret it.
Very nice video. I've been looking for a Baker rifle for a long time now (I live in Austria so they aren't as prevalent as in your part of the world i guess) Where did you get yours? I've seen reproductions but only with smooth bore in .62.
I have always loved the Baker Rifle since i first saw it in the Sharpe television show. While i still prefer the Hawken style rifle, the Baker is a close second for me
Very interesting when You visit the Waterloo battlefield. The KGL units used the paper cartridges when they defended La Haye Sainte and a little far from that the 95th was shooting off the French artillerymen on long distances with the patched bullets.
I'm sure that every rifleman had a mixture of ammunition. Indeed, the defence of La Haye Saint was for the most part desperate and close range... as for the the 95th in the sandpit, the Grand Battery was a bit too far away for rifle shooting, but certainly, as D'Erlon attacked there would have been ample targets...
Hello there! Great videos! I was thinking of purchasing a Baker Rifle and was wondering what wood were the original rifles made up because the one I was going to pick up seemed to be teak wood.. also where could I read more about the rifle? Thanks!
Hi there. Yes, the Indian repros are typically teak or some other "tropical" wood.... This one (from Rifle Shoppe parts) is walnut, as with the originals... Glad you enjoyed the clips! Cheers.
+JohnnyH1982 A bit of the same here... Some good days and some horrendous... Frankie MacDonald has seen fit to comment on it so you know it has been bad. Great to hear from you. Hope all is well. Had a chance to chat with Tom the other day.. Great to hear from him too!
@@britishmuzzleloaders I know it wasn't a big deal in ancient times... But civil war sniper's had special shooting glasses that would help focus the eyes on distant targets
O'er the hills and far away. through Flanders,Portugal and Spain. King George commands and we obey. damn the red ballons and fire away.
Hagman himself could not have done better.
+Kai Dog You're a poet and you didn't even know it...
Remember Cartagena de Indias
The original third line is "Queen Anne commands", the song comes from the War of the Spanish Succesion at the start of the 18th Century. Just saying 😉
@@keithorbell9500 but in Sharpe its Ling George commands and we obey over the hills and far away
When Evil stalks upon the land
I'll neither hold nor stay me hand
But fight to win a better day,
Over the hills and far away.
E B ah, the regimental march for the 95th Rifles.
Celer et Audax
All the hills and glory, might never be the same. spanning flanders portugal and spain (probably wrong)
this, cap and ball, tfbtv and c&rsenal are the best firearms channels on youtube. This are superb videos you make.
Thank you very much!
Demo Ranch?
@@scottydu81 when it comes to entertainment demo ranch is the gold standard.
I enjoy the shit out of your videos. Many thanks.
+SamEEE12 Hahaha... Thanks!
Production of paper cartridges AKA Origami for men. :)
Yes
🤣🤣🤣
Also, I love the ending!
+Madras Arsenal Haha..
PENIS
The overall design and construction of the paper and patched cartridge used here (by yourself and from the historical references) have given me an inspiration for mass producing my own for my percussion muzzleloader, a .50 cal Hawken St.Louis rifle. Hope to see more videos on your channel soon.
Cool!
Nice video as always. It is interesting the difference in accuracy in patched vs cartridge in the rifle, I actually got the opposite results from my smooth bore Brown Bess.
+Madras Arsenal Thanks Kurt. Interesting results with your BB.... I'll get to mine one day..
Great experiment! Thank You! Greetings from Russian muzzleloader!
+Alexander Spiridonov Thanks!
The rifle marches playing in the background whenever you do a video on the Baker is a nice touch.
+MacComie Glad you like them.. I do too... Though they aren't period and came along much after the Napoleonic era....
Contradictory information, disorganized and confused instruction you say. 0~o Well, noting for it then but to press on, and clear the air as it were. ^~^ Lead on good Sir, lead on.
Cheers!
I understand you made your Baker from a kit. How did you go about inletting the keys? What did you reference?
Ah,.... the most difficult and stressful part of the build. I used a drill press, a level, and a clamp to drill the keyways through the barrel key loops with the barrel clamped in place... Three holes side by side, then finished it out with jewellers files and a knife. There is a better way using a press with a locating nail clamped to the base pointing up, matching exactly the tip of the drill bit...
Excellent! Sharpe approves of the Baker! Kicks the American Long Rifle's arse any day of the week!
The British, including one Battalion of the 95th did not find it that way at New Orleans.
A comparison between the 1800 Baker and the 1803 Harper's Ferry (the weapon of choice for the comparatively short lived US Regiment of Rifleman) would make a very interesting video indeed.
+Guntank214 No, the Baker vs the Hawken
@@mpetersen6 The Hawken was produced for the large game (particularly bears) that trappers were running into out West. Hence it was typically a heavy caliber, like a .54 with a heavier bullet than the Pennsylvania or Kentucky rifle. Trying to compare the Baker to the long rifle isn't quite fair as one was built just for military use and the other for hunting and target shooting.
Good Day to you Sir! First of all I want to say I really like your videos and style.
I was wondering which company did you get your Baker Rifle from? So far I've only managed to find a smoothbore version for reenactment...
HI there. The Baker is from the Rifle Shoppe. I made it with their parts set. Great project. Glad you are enjoying things.
I am considering the building of my own Baker from TRS to accompany my Kentucky long rifle.
Does this works in flintlock pistols?
Sure.
Wear EYE PROTECTION! Duh!
magic stuff never mind about the 95th what about the 60th rifles Kings German Legion
Thanks! I have shown images of the 60th from time to time in the Baker videos.. :-)
Well presented and very interesting. Thanks for posting :-)
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
I am curious how many shots you manage before requiring to reharden the frizzen?
You and Duelist1954 have infected me, I just ordered my first Flintlock Rifle kit. My second one will be a TRS Baker, but my first has family significance and is similar to what the 95th would have faced in New Orleans. I ordered one of Jim Kiblers beautiful Southern Mountain Rifles, it is a Western North Carolina styled Rifle while Andy Jackson's Tennessee Rifles and my family would have used the similar East Tennessee style rifles. Anyway I now have your peculiar disease and I hope you are happy ;)
Well done, that man.... you will have hours and hours of the most frustrating, rewarding and smile-inducing fun.
Background music Royal Green Jackets? I have marched at 140 to the minute. Kudos to the 95th our progenitor!
Interestingly enough, I have yet to uncover anything indicating fast marching until the 20th century. Plenty of Rifles' specific mention in the Victorian pams, but never anything regarding marching. The tunes are a mix of Light Infantry and Rifles stuff.
Celer et Audax
Excellent presentation. As Sharpe says "All you have to do is stand, and fire three rounds a minute. Now you and I know you can fire three rounds a minute...... But can you stand?" :)
Haha!
The 1803 rifle the Lewis and Clark expedition used is similar if not identical in application to the baker rifle that was adopted in the year 1800 by the British Army especially the 95th rifle regiment at Waterloo in 1815
Yes, same generation and application.
Did the British never use a loading block? This is a block of wood with maybe a half dozen holes in it the diameter of the bore. A patched ball was place in each hole. This was apparently common among "Kentucky" riflemen and would certainly shave a few seconds off the loading.
Also, I admire your devotion to authenticity, but you should wear safety glasses!
Not in relation to the Baker Rifle... no..
I've been hunting for a Baker for 13 years... I FINALLY find one and I can't get it -_-
They are out there... time, being handy with tools, or money will get you there...
Are you planning on making the part 2 of this video soon ? Have you talked about paper cartridges containing a patch for a rifle in some of your other videos ?
Anyway, I really liked this video, thanks.
HI there. Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, the plan is get Part Two done... Waiting for some snow to dissipate right now...
"What makes a good soldier?" "Being able to fire 3 rounds a minut sir!" If you know, you know
Sure....
love your videos.i was wondering when the troops were preparing there ammo in camp they would have access to animal fat .would they have a pot of melted fat and dipped the ball end with paper in to the fat as a lubricant ? would like to know your thoughts . would it foul up more .thinking what I would do if I was a one of them. But I don't have the experience of a Neopolionic soldier .
Hi there. Round ball cartridges intended to be fired without patching were not lubricated. They were small enough not to need any. As for lubricating patches, tallow would have been supplied...
I sense if a Soldier from the 60th or 95Th was to fire on the ground he would need assistance from a fellow soldier to load for him , and hand over the Musket ? If on campaign at the end of the day , would he have to restock his pouch ,would they be re-supplied from the rear supplies or he would be making his own crudely through the night( including paper cartridge method ) ??
No, one can load in their back with some difficulty depending on the ammunition used. There are many more Baker videos on the Channel if you are interested. Many of the things you ask about are covered therein ... Ammunition was supplied, although the knowledge of how to make it (it's very simple) was known to all for use in emergencies..
Rob, I wonder if the decision to cease the issue of the patched ball and powder half way through the Napoleonic was was, in some way related to the change in the nature of the war. The Peninsular Campaign was a war of skirmishing and often smaller independent units, by the time the war had moved to Flanders, the nature of the war had changed to open rolling and flat countryside suitable for line battle?
Probably nothing in it and who knows, perhals individual riflemen kept their own patch and ball, especially if they were marksmen.
I imagine that the reasoning behind forgoing the issue of separate patch and ball was due to the lack of need for it. Though, to categorize the whole Peninsular War in one way would be much too general. The use of patched ball cartridges (as examined int he subsequent parts of this series) became a much easier and expedient method.
When you get around to the follow up, I would be interested in seeing loose but preached ball especially when the patch has been cut in a cross shape. I am not sure how to adhere the patch to the ball. Possibly beeswax? Thank you for the great videos!
Hi there. I am experimenting with a number of types of patched ball cartridge right now and that style is one of them. The key is to get the shape right so it completely seals the bore, at least that's the way I'm approaching it!... Cheers.
Though apparently not Period, might not lubing the paper cartridge, smoothbore style, help Windage and Accuracy ?
I would think that there had to be an army somewhere, that tried this.
Smoothbore (unmatched round ball) cartridges were not lubricated... As this series deals with service ammunition, I used that which closely resembled the historical.
So I have always heard of the in accuracy of the Brown bess. Now I shoot an English style Fowler with a patched ball and i find the accuracy good enough for killing size groups out to 75 yards. So, if the brown bess were loaded this way, at least for the first shot and the shot well aimed, it would cause far more casualties and death. Did they not ever patch their muskets this way?, i realize that cloth was costly, but for an army it would be a cheap expense in the scheme of things
Patched balls were simply not at all a military technique for use in smoothbore arms... lament that as you may, but that is the way it was.
What size patch do you use? We use round patches in the states. 1”x1”? Thanks man!
They are from 1"square to 1 1/2".... typically.
Rob , do you know what type of steel was used to make the original baker rifle barrels? And what metal do they use for today's reproduction?
The barrel on my Baker is proper, purpose made rifle barrel. Mileage may vary with repros... see the FAQ video.
95 grains of 2f behind a 300+ grain lead ball is a very potent load! It would certainly be a good close range load for deer/elk hunting.
Or hunting the enemy... :-)
Indeed!
Great shooting! We all seem to be getting pretty consistent results with our rb tests. The Baker's group seems a little wider than I was able to get, however my '42 has a much longer barrel. I can't wait to get my hands on one of Pedersolis new Whitworths!
+murpheysmuskets Thanks Murph. That Whitworth will make for a few good videos, eh?! I imagine that the longer barrel (and the percussion lock especially) would make for a much better grouping.
with the smoke on firing wouldn't that blind or reduce the vision of the shooter ? Especially if you were firing in a squad or company setting .
Smoke was always a consideration on the Napoleonic battlefield. Wind, numbers of shooters both have significant effect on the amount, of course.
Seems like the biggest difference between the reloading done in the vid with paper cartridges, and the reloading done in the Sharpe's Universe (which I think is portrayed as a method used and taught by him alone), is that he bites and rips off the bullet, then primes the pan, pour the rest down the barrel, stuff down the paper, and finally the ball is spat down into the muzzle to be rammed or tapped down. In the show he was teaching basic infantry; those using the Brown Bess, so wasn't demonstrating with patches. For when accuracy is needed, I think either the powder horn method was used, or I suppose the ball was spat onto a patch on the muzzle so as to be rammed down with it. I sort of recall the patches being made of leather rather than cloth, but that might be incorrect. I wonder, on average, how many rounds must be fired from a Bess before tap loading can no longer be done safely, with the ball likely ending up stuck only partially into the barrel, which is of course a very dangerous proposition. For that matter, I wonder if it differs much for the Baker Rifle. Something tells me that with the rifling, the Baker would get gummed up more quickly without using patches.
It's certainly mentioned however that the Baker Rifle can be used like a Brown Bess if not given a patch. It won't bite into the rifling, resulting in not nearly as much accuracy, but its faster, and 3 shots per minute is precisely what he focused on for the smoothbore infantry. I think when he demonstrates it in the book Sharpe's Rifles, he either JUST managed to fire a 4th shot, or was JUST on his way to ramming down the ball for his 4th shot when Harper called 60 seconds. In Cornwell's The Fort, I distinctly recall a British Officer, I think a young Lieutenant, demonstrating 5 rounds in 1 minute. He cheats though; stabs his ramrod into the ground for easier access. His muscle memory must not have been a hair out of place, because even with ramrod at such a ready position, 5 shots in a minute is God-like. Based during the American War for Independence, 1779 specifically. Incredible stuff.
Even in using the 'tap loading' method of reloading, that kind of rate of fire must be nearly impossible. Years upon years of practice, hundreds, if not thousands of rounds fired. Day in and day out, until it comes as naturally as breathing, or as drinking the booze provided in daily rations... ahh, that would have been a big plus for encouraging me to join the Military if I was around back in the day. Regular meals with drink provided daily (when possible)? Where do I sign up?! I've made and eaten ship's biscuits/hardtack before, letting it soak in coffee or tea helps the flavour, specifically tea. Just hope that it doesn't result in a 'Barret's Privateers' situation, being left a young legless man on a Pier, in the case of the Navy. For those who survive amputation in the Army, the first destination upon 'retirement' was likely the nearest pub, I figure. Savings likely wouldn't last long, I doubt there was a pension back then, so if a man lacking a lower limb couldn't find a job that didn't require much mobility, or if a man missing an arm couldn't find a job that didn't require two hands, becoming a homeless beggar would likely have been the outcome I figure, ESPECIALLY if it was merely a young Private or Corporal, someone not born a gentleman, who didn't buy their way into being an Officer, who didn't have a rich family to care for him. Rough times... but damn fascinating all the same.
+NormanMatchem Search for "csadler" on youtube... He is a member of a re-enactment group in Australia portraying the 95th... They have done a great series of videos on similar subjects... including spit loading. Loading with anything but paper cartridge was not used with the Brown Bess... No patch, no wads,.... nothing except the method used in this clip... When I get around to lugging the Bess out for a video, I'll demonstrate it. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders
Yeah I've seen a few of their vids, great stuff. They also tested that tapping method vs using a ramrod. If memory serves, while the tapping was faster, it didn't seat the ball as nicely, resulting in less velocity (A chronograph was used, of course). With the ball patted down against the powder with a ramrod, it helped to propel the projectile with a bit more 'oomph'. A vid of theirs I recently seen was about shooting the ramrod from the Baker Rifle, like what Harper did in the show.
Not much distance; about 8m with a standard powder charge, 16m with a double powder charge, so with a half charge of powder as used in the show, it's likely only about 4m of distance would be gotten. Doubtful that it would provide the velocity needed to pierce someone's throat. More dramatization.
This was also the standart musket of the Brazilian imperial army during the reign of Pedro I (1822-1831)
Accuracy is cool. but your eyes are so much more than the bee's knees. Please wear eye protection. Even if it is not historically accurate.
Thank you.
You just made my Friday Rob! Yes, I know you uploaded on Tuesday, but I just saw this video today.
+Diktator Alexander Glad you enjoyed it!
Sorry if the question may be stupid, but wouldn't the paper used in the cartrige waxed?
Really like the videos!
No, paper cartridges of the era were not lubricated. The bullets were smaller than the bore, giving enough windage to allow for loading while fouled.
britishmuzzleloaders Thanks! : )
非常謝謝您的影片分享。
讓我對於文字描寫中不清楚的解釋，得到了答案。
Is see the civil war park is coming together greatly Ron Swanson
Sure thing
Could a cartrage be made such as its pushed down the bore it passes some blade shaped like a vegtable skinner grabs the edges of the paper and causes the paper cartrage rip open at the back dumping the powder down the barrel and possably fold onto itself for a tighter seal?
Maybe Part Two and Three of this series might be of interest? Cheers.
That's a nice looking rifle.
I dont have any experience with any of the British or Canadian arms.
I'm from Maryland and used to running around the Pennsylvania and Virginia woods with a long rifle, a Hawken or at times a Zouave rifle of American Civil War time. I'm in Kansas now, however.
Just came across your channel, very enjoyable.
Glad to hear! Thank you. Please spread the word if it's something that appeals! Cheers.
@@britishmuzzleloaders Certainly will!
Awesome and informative as usual. great job. I look forward to the follow up video to this one. I guess I need to start saving my pennies - just have to get myself one of the kits so I too can have an example of my all time favourite flintlock firearm.
Working on it now... the other cartridges are proving to be a bit of chore to design and make.... all in the name of history though... Cheers.
Could you pssibly go into detail sometime about how they kept the patches with the ammo?
I could, but I might direct you to the subsequent two parts to this series.... 😀
Does the paper separate from the paper patched round ball on firing?
+KRRabbit1 Yes it does.
By chance where and how much did you buy your Baker Rifle from/for?
Haha! You found the video I see...
You should wear glasses while firing a flintlock since i have a friend who lost an eye like this.
Cheers!
Yeah, I didn't like the way it was gesticulating either...
+leighrate It was bugging me all day... I showed it, though...
Whats the difference between a 1800 pattern and 1805 pattern?
This is explained in the introduction video on the Channel, if you are interested.
Interesting video. I remember visiting Waterloo and the guide told us the KGL at La Haye Sainte ran out of ammo because the Baker rifle used a smaller round and the Brown Bess ammo was incompatible. I would have hated to of been them!
The Bess was nominally 75cal while the Baker was in carbine calibre of .62, so yes, incompatible.
britishmuzzleloaders That's what I thought as I held in my hand both as examples. Either they did not properly plan or they misused the KGL that day.
It's important to know that not all the KGL were armed with the Baker. Only a fraction. There were the Light Bns and the Sharpshooters of the Light Companies of the Line Bns. That said, these were the troops (about 400) who mainly garrisoned the farm.
Cut the background music.
No.
Wouldn't they have greased the paper cartridge?
+Andrew Staudenmaier No, they wouldn't have... Paper cartridges were not greased for any weapon of the era.
what makes a good solder is the ability to shoot 3 rounds in a minute in any weather.
Mmmmm,… maybe.
What size smaller ball did you use? Thanks
The ball is in the neighbourhood of .595
I am curious if you are concerned with getting any sparks in your eyes when you shoot. What are your feelings on the various black powder substitutes that are available. Where do you get your Black Powder? Sorry about the questions. Great video as usual.
I am not. I have never used substitutes. I get my BP from a wholesaler. Cheers!
Have you tried a tighter ball with lube in a paper cartridge?
+TheRcfighterpilot Tighter ball didn't fit... Lube on cartridge not historical at all... So, no I haven't ... :-)
Having experience only with modern firearms, I'm surprised at the accuracy (or lack thereof by modern standards) of the rifle with patched ball. I wasn't exactly expecting sub-MOA, but about eight MOA? Wow. I'm not even sure they could sell an eight minute rifle these days.
Also, I wonder if using a Minie ball would make a difference. I know it isn't quite period accurate, but I would imagine that a better projectile would give you more accuracy.
That's history... The point here, is not to get the absolute most out of the Baker in any way, it's to get the most out of it historically... no expanding ball....
@@britishmuzzleloaders It was interesting either way. You read about the "pinpoint accuracy" of these old rifles, I was kinda shocked at how poor it is by modern standards. Then again, I think I read somewhere that a Brown Bess would hold something like 40 MOA, so that is a massive improvement.
@@MrEvanfriend Glad you leaned something then! :-) Cheers!
the end of the video was the best
It was taunting me all day..... whimsically fluttering in the breeze, distracting me from my shooting, saying "Oooo, Ooooo, Ooooo, betchyou can't hit me!"
It was asking for it
Oh all the silly things when you realize that someone who you just started watching on TH-cam from the oddest sets of chance hails from your own backyard. If real estate signs can be believed.
There must be some sleuthing going on...
britishmuzzleloaders nah. Just recognized the sign style and name. ;)
Where would i be able to buy a Baker rifle? If possible.
Hi there. Option 1- Get a parts set from the Rifle Shoppe and make it yourself. Option 2- Get TRS to make it for you $$$$$..... Option 3- Get a repro and have a new barrel put on it. All reproduction Bakers are smoothbore at this time.
Informative and interesting, as always. Thanks.
+Charles Inglin You are, as always, welcome!.. :-)
What was the rate of fire? was it measured in rounds per hour xD
Sure.
Where did you get your cap? It is awesome!
And secondly what is the song around 10:00 ?
Thanks!!
From Sally Pointer in Wales. If you are interested in Kilmarnock, I can't recommend her enough.
Thanks! I looked her up and her work is amazing!
If i'm not mistaken it's Sousa's Blaze Away
The ending.......Classic!!! DIE EVIL BALLOON! DIE!
+GunDoc39402 It was evil, wasn't it?...... It was staring at me all day, buffeting around in the wind, distracting me as I shot.... What was I to do?
I think you handled the situation quite correctly sir.
GunDoc39402 Hahaha...
I have this insane idea of taking one of the Loyalist Arms / Military Heritage / Historical Twist etc. India-made smoothbore Bakers and sleeving it into a .45 rifle, what do you think? I have a couple Bess' that I really enjoy shooting & reenacting with and in the last few years the quality is very improved.
+Jordan Kipp As a man who enjoys military history, and what the arms of the period were like and how they were used, I would say,..... No, to sleeving a Baker... If you want to shoot a 45cal flintlock, get a Hawkens... :-)... What kind of Besses do you have?
+britishmuzzleloaders I started out with an India 3rd pattern, and now primarily use the New Land pattern for 1812 light infantry.
Jordan Kipp Where did you get the New Land from?
+britishmuzzleloaders Sorry for the delay.
I'm in Hamilton, Ont and there is a local store here that does a lot of reenactor supply & historical reproductions, Spencers Mercantile. They source their muskets from Loyalist Arms / Military Heritage / Historical Twist (
Can't say I fancy a foot drill music on a background - but I'm a fan, and it's always a pleasure to listen to an expert!
Speaking of Sean Bean's performance - is it anywhere near practical to roll a loose naked ball down the barrel of the Baker rifle as it's shown in "Sharpe's Rifles" - without using a ramrod, just tapping the butt on a ground? Or it's just a cinematic exaggeration? Thought that gas sealing is somewhat essential in firearm, though, so it demands a tight fit for the ball...
"cdsadler" of YT did an interesting experiment on this very thing... have a look!.. :-)
I did. Guys are awesome, but they've tried it with smooth-bore musket... Still wondering, would the tap nesting work with the rifled barrel? In other videos you mention balls of various calibers - when explaining loose patched ball and the cartridge. Perhaps, 22ga ball should roll in nicely - and I trust that ball will even leave the barrel when fired - but would it go straight and deliver enough energy with such a loose fit and no sealing at all?
Here's the deal... in order for this to work, you have to bite off the bullet from the top of the cartridge which entails a bunch of powder in the mouth... .... and of course a lead ball in your mouth... then you have to swirl it around in there to get the paper and string off.... biting into it and "chewing" the paper off... All this while you are pouring the powder down the barrel... then with any last bits of paper removed with the fingers in the mouth, you can spit the ball down the barrel... The ball is capable of rolling down the barrel, but the process isn't as easy (or indeed healthy) as one might think.
Who makes a Baker rifle replica today?
Made a video on that in the Baker Playlist if you are interested.
Ive been looking at getting a Baker rifle for a while in Canada. How did u obtain urs and how much did u pay?
+Ion610 I made it from a Rifle Shoppe "kit"... (or rather "collection of parts") Great project!
Ive been looking on that site for a while, thanks for the reply :)
Awesome presentation .
Thank you!
Do you know if the Baker was issued blued or browned ?? or just left bright ??
+TheDave570 Browned... Cheers.
+britishmuzzleloaders Thanks !
what sort of paper did you use or was it just normal print papar
HI there. The paper is 100% rag. It's a brand that I used to use for my Pritchett cartridges that I had lying around. Printer paper tends to be a bit on the thick and tough to rip side when rolled up in multiple layers, I have found.
so primitive and so beautiful weapon
Maybe by current standards, but back then it was definitely a step up from the usual infantry arms, in some respects.
the real method is faster than the sharpe spit method.
"Sharpe spit method"...... says it all right there.
I wonder if he had to re make the video, sean bean forgot to die
Haha!
I sometimes use paper cartridges in my early Virginia flintlock rifle. I dip the ball end of the paper cartridge in SPG lube. Then when loading, I ram the ball down with the lube dipped paper around the ball. This helps some with windage and fouling, but I still wipe the bore between shots. Groups are very good at 35-40 yards. Never tried them at longer ranges. Average spread is about 2-3 inches. 50 cal. 175 grain ball with 60 grains ffg.
The lube will certainly help, especially if the windage is tight. In a military context, there wasn't any used on cartridges, though. Outside of historical shooting, anything goes, of course! Cheers.
There is one thing that I can't figure out. And that is why no one thought to use a round nose cylindrical projectile much earlier than they appeared historically. And if so would they perform much better? The concept just seems so obvious in hind sight
Hind sight.... yes.
+britishmuzzleloaders So, have you or anyone else tried something similiar to either the Minie or one of todays black powder hunting projectiles.
I haven't. Not for any other reason than it isn't historical. On a similar topic, the Russians upgraded their Brunswick ammo with a two lugged, conical bullet in the 1840s and 50s... they used it in the Crimea.
Another great video mate!!! Are there any black powder magazines published in Canada or the US that you know of? I can't seem to find any in jolly GB!!!!
Couldn’t tell you. I’d have to google just like you... :-)
A quick question @britishmuzzleloaders is the method off of Sharpe (bite,pour,spit,tap) viable or is it a method they made up for the show? If you could reply that would be great. I love the videos!
It is fallacy. "csadler" on YT did a great examination of the technique if you are interested.
Remember do not fire til you see the whites of their eyes.
Sure thing!
one good soldier from Britain army could do 3-4 shots per minute... i readed this on a Bernard Corwell book, is this true?
There is discussion of this in the Brown Bess Platoon exercise video if you are interested.
@@britishmuzzleloaders OS COURSE !!!! Thanks for answering me. I'm looking about these cause im makeing a RPG campaign in GURPS about the peninsular war. This materia is being very helpfull
@@britishmuzzleloaders and great job by the way!
When I saw a video about the Baker Rifle, I naturally gave the order to click. That's my style, sir!
Thank you kindly!
You explained that the paper of the cartridge formed a "Rudimentary Sabot" at about 9:40 Was this by design or by lucky happenstance with the design of the paper cartridge?
Hi there. Since paper cartridges evolved from systems like the "12 Apostles" or other loose powder systems, I would think that the sabot effect would have been an unintended benefit. That said, it is a very rudimentary and not completely effective sabot.
Another great vid mate and a big thanks
Also a thanks for inspiring me, with your Snider vid, to buy my first non-flintlock gun for my collection at an auction last weekend - an 1865 .577 Snider action rifle by London Arms Co., 35,1/2 ins full stocked three banded barrel
Its a real beauty in lovely condition - shame of it is it will only ever sit on the wall with my other guns - no firing them for me as Im a Brit.
Cheers again mate and looking forward to more in the Snider series.
+sandmanhh67 Nice to hear about your Snider... You should really make some enquiries at a local club and jump through hoops to get your licence... You won't regret it.
Very nice video. I've been looking for a Baker rifle for a long time now (I live in Austria so they aren't as prevalent as in your part of the world i guess) Where did you get yours? I've seen reproductions but only with smooth bore in .62.
+Sabbel Wakker HI there. I made from parts from The Rifle Shoppe. Great project.
bite, prime, load, spit and fire?
+Mr. Chopstick Noooooooooooo!!!!!.... :-)
Prime last
I have always loved the Baker Rifle since i first saw it in the Sharpe television show. While i still prefer the Hawken style rifle, the Baker is a close second for me
Cheers!
Very interesting when You visit the Waterloo battlefield. The KGL units used the paper cartridges when they defended La Haye Sainte and a little far from that the 95th was shooting off the French artillerymen on long distances with the patched bullets.
I'm sure that every rifleman had a mixture of ammunition. Indeed, the defence of La Haye Saint was for the most part desperate and close range... as for the the 95th in the sandpit, the Grand Battery was a bit too far away for rifle shooting, but certainly, as D'Erlon attacked there would have been ample targets...
Hello there! Great videos! I was thinking of purchasing a Baker Rifle and was wondering what wood were the original rifles made up because the one I was going to pick up seemed to be teak wood.. also where could I read more about the rifle? Thanks!
Hi there. Yes, the Indian repros are typically teak or some other "tropical" wood.... This one (from Rifle Shoppe parts) is walnut, as with the originals... Glad you enjoyed the clips! Cheers.
That balloon had it coming...
Yes it did, sitting there, blowing in the breeze like that....
Was that service charge synonymous with other weapons of the era like the brown Bess? Or was that 95 grains specifically for the baker?
It was specific to the Baker. The Brown Bess charge was 6 drams vs 3 1/2 with the Baker.
Sabot is pronounced "Say-Bow"
Sure.
@@britishmuzzleloaders yep
You are a gentleman and a scholar, excellent work my friend. I hope the weather is well on your coast, its all over the map both good and bad here :)
+JohnnyH1982 A bit of the same here... Some good days and some horrendous... Frankie MacDonald has seen fit to comment on it so you know it has been bad. Great to hear from you. Hope all is well. Had a chance to chat with Tom the other day.. Great to hear from him too!
Looks like a tampon
Very clever. Yes it does...
Eye protection please
Let's promote safe shooting
Sure.
@@britishmuzzleloaders I know it wasn't a big deal in ancient times... But civil war sniper's had special shooting glasses that would help
focus the eyes on distant targets