Priests Tampering with the Mass
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Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
I was at a mass recently at a parish that is not my own where the priest seemed to take a lot of opportunities to ad-lib with his own thoughts and colloquialisms in place of what is written in the Roman Missal.
This isn’t something I’m all that used to, so my initial reaction was one of anger and frustration. The texts that compose the mass are a treasure of the whole Church - not of any particular person or generation. For any one person to think that they ought to try to make cute improvements to something that contains traces as old as the faith itself seems to suggest that they are more concerned with the attention that it can bring them then on serving as they are called to in the liturgy.
The analogy that came to mind for me is like someone who is appointed curator of a great art museum filled with ancient treasures who decides that the whole collection could use some of their own personal touch, so they run around putting dabs of paint here and there and re-arranging exhibits to suit their own preference.
Now obviously, that’s a bit hyperbolic, but if you consider what the mass is and how sacred it is, it could be argued that individuals tampering with it to suit their own preferences is actually worse.
But as I thought about it, perhaps by the grace of the sacrament that I received on that occasion, I was reminded of something that helped me sympathize a bit.
From a fellow convert. . . You are sooooo exactly on target here. We Western Catholics, as a general rule, have almost no idea what liturgical worship actually is.
The Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St.Peter is the beautiful English Catholic liturgy. The prayers of the Mass and the ritual is akin to the Latin Mass in its reverence and the words of the Mass are beautiful.
Albino-talmudists don't.
All other people do.
It's natural.
I do. I'm old enough to remember what it was like, and I truly miss it. I'm stuck in SoCal and there is nary a real Mass anywhere within driving distance. Mass isn't supposed to be a penance, but that is what it feels like.
@xtreme survival Her problem is she believes in the word of God and not a bunch of man made rules & traditions, most of which, Jesus Christ condemned! As an ex-Catholic protestant, I've read many books about the history of the Catholic Church & 5 books about the history of the popes. You couldn't find ONE pope that ever had ANY Christ-like quality. They were all greedy, murdering, fornicators, adulterers & NOW sodomites & pedophiles. No Catholic has EVER truly studied the bible. All that do, leave the church & become Protestants like myself. My family goes back Roman Catholic over 3 centuries on both sides and my aunt was a nun. I never had ANY intention of ever leaving the church. That was until I read about it's history, and read & STUDIED the most anti-Catholic book ever written - THE BIBLE.
@xtreme survival well said brother
Priests improvising during the Mass, more than anything else (poor music included ) was eventually to bring me to the Tridentine Mass, no regrets of course (Irish living in France for the past 30 years) cheers.
Presumably you can read and understand Latin for the Tridentine Mass?
@@Anon.5216 Even somebody with an average brain like mine can manage once you have a decent Missel, on one page you have the text in Latin and on the opposite side the text in English. Takes a short while to get used to frankly, but well worth the effort. The Epistle, Gospel and sermon are in the vernacular. Liturgical vocabulary tends to be a tad repetitive, so one gets used to the same words cropping up regularly. Beautiful Mass, whether the Low Mass (very quiet ) or the High Mass with fabulous Gregorian chanting.
John Harkness, I have to travel 45 minutes to attend the Tridentine Mass and its worth the drive. I'm very moved and definitely feel a connection attending. It just takes a little while to get used to the Latin but I have no problems attempting it. I suggest for anyone that is looking for a deeper sense of Catholicsim or more important the transcendent to explore it.
@@Anon.5216 Its hard to put in words but you're giving a book which has both, the vernacular and the Latin. It took me a little while to understand it but honestly the language is not what I'm there for, the mass itself is so deep and rich which takes you to another level. The priest actually is intervening for us to God so he pretty much does all the work. I invite you to just go when you can and don't even try to follow the book, watch, listen and the feeling you'll have will be extraordinary.
@@Nefertum1000 absolutely agree Francisco, it takes me about half an hour to get to Mass, including time to find a place for the car in the city centre (Lyon France) I attend the N.O Mass when on holidays and I've no other choice, but the Tridentine Mass gets the gold medal as far as I'm concerned anyway. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but there you are, well worth the effort to learn some basic Latin, it's not rocket science as they say. Cheers.
The way Brian investigates, analyzes and presents info is so precise and on point. Wow, what a talent.
Right??? Amen.
It’s got to be a charism, right?!
@@culturecoroner yes! Definitely a charismatic person. God bless him.
Yes, he is profound.
@@gracepilgrim7765 that's a ridiculous statement. This man is on a journey and you shouldn't judge his faith.
Great video, as usual. I always thought that the protestant relaxed, spontaneous, modern etc style was the way to go. I really thought that this is what attracts young people or people who are searching. Very recently I realised that it's the opposite. I am very intrigued by your take on this... you made me think. Thank you.
Protestant modern relaxed style is peculiar to one stream of Protestants known as Low Church Evangelical. High Church Evangelicals like most Anglicans, Methodists, Old Catholics and Lutherans won't understand what you mean! Their denominations are liturgical oriented rather than extempraneous!
I never thought about the etymology of the word "amusement" until now. It's really interesting to think about the secularization of music, the absence of Music influence in its creation...
In my old parish, we would occasionally get a visiting priest who made a point of referring to the Holy Spirit as "She". He also avoided the pronoun "He" when referring to Christ, and always used the name Jesus instead. He would make these changes to the Gospel as he read it. The first time he did it I thought he simply misspoke, but it soon became evident that he was doing it intentionally. It was very distracting and off putting. My family eventually started avoiding the Masses he celebrated by attending at other times.
@Blue Druid: Next time, prayerfully take the opportunity to confront and correct such a priest, in a respectful, but firm manner. Let him know that what he is doing is wrong, and NOT at all Catholic.
Blue, Druids are pagan!
@@gracepilgrim7765 You are correct of course. I took my user name from an old animated video about St. Patrick I used to watch as a kid. The villain in the story was a druid named Lugard, and he was a bumbling, conniving charlatan. He was obviously upstaged by Patrick, but I found his blustery, overacted character hilarious. I understand none of this is apparent just by looking at my profile, but I wanted to explain. I couldn't be less interested in real paganism if I tried. Happy feast day of Christ the King!
Bless you, blue druid - thanks for xplanatuon. I'm Welsh: st David. I'm also protestant but still love Catholics - despite your odd religious practices.
My parish staffed by Franciscan priests was so Woke so to speak that girls and young ladies on special feasts surrounded the Priest at time of consecration and elevation. Point was to offset the men only as priests and reduce the historic patriarchy that is fixated in our brains. On big holidays like Easter, dancing ladies in their 30’s and dressed like greek temple attendants danced up and down the aisles waving white scarfs in celebration. The Bible readings were gender neutral. I really did not mind. The entire Parrish was outgoing and easy to talk to, sociable. Good catholics. But .... i hate to say this... I thought the priests concept of mercy that was continually passed on was border line heretical. I was upset. The parish was listening because each week the confession lines were almost zero ... 3 or 4. I transferred to parish run by carmelite order..... confession lines are long and well attended.
Im part of the syro-malabar roman catholic church and our mass is so consistent that i know every hymn and the prayer said by heart without ever actively trying to memorise it.
As a convert to Catholicism, my thinking about the liturgy has evolved the same way Brian's has.
have u read quran papa
Same
@@dietrichotto2051 ,what do mean
I remember going to Mass the first time, and being SO confused over the lack of reverence and tradition and the whole "robotic" way in which Mass was being said. Deep down I knew that SOMETHING must have been wrong. I just didn't know what that was at the time because I was a new Catholic. Then, like a year after becoming Catholic, I went to my first Latin Mass, and was like "OOOOHHHHH THIS IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!!!"
I'll never forget that feeling of finally finding the answer to a question that I couldn't even really articulate at the time.
Been obsessed with the liturgy ever since
@@dietrichotto2051 ,u take place behind illusion
What a God given gift you have of speaking about topics that are difficult in such an articulate way! Your videos are truly a blessing. Thank you Brian!...The timing is great on this one as I've recently started going to Latin Mass and encountered a beauty, structure, consistency, reverence and a depth that I had never seen (or heard) before. Deo Gratias.
Proper music and chants help the NO. The problem IMHO is a lack of reverence and awe on the part of some (usually liberal) priests. The NO celebrated well is very different from when it is celebrated poorly.
As to the liturgical abuse of some priests sprucing up their celebration of the Mass with personal novelties, it is explicitly not allowed. They are either poorly formed or don't care. Quoting from the GIRM paragraph #24:
... However, the Priest will remember that he is the servant of the Sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass.
99.9% of NO Masses are celebrated badly (in the UK at any rate).
I completely agree with Brian. I attend the Nous Ordo mass at my parish and it is a sung mass. The Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei are in Latin, the Kyrie in Greek and the rest is in English. The music is sublime - sung by a children’s choir: Bach, Mozart, Faure, etc. It is the way the Novus Ordo was meant to be. God bless the Oratorians who run the parish! Holy Family Parish in Toronto.
p.s. we also have a TLM. I love that we have both options of worship.
Oh I am jealous! I know that's not the right reaction :) I am also very glad that you have access to this and sad that I don't. If I'm every in Toronto I'll check it out,
What samantha said
Uh oh, you confessed to witnessing a beautiful Norvus Ordo Mass. The more-Catholic-than-thou brigade is gonna brand you a heretic now for not supporting only Traditional Latin Mass. =P
Find a Traditional Latin Mass and you will never go back to this "new" Mass.
EXACTLY! i discovered the TLM just 2-3 years ago and whenever i attend a 'new' mass it's torture
You can't have any more of a personal experience with Jesus Christ than receiving his body blood soul and Divinity in your very body.
Brian, wow! You have precisely articulated my feelings on this subject. Like you, I was born after the reforms of the second Vatican council. So the Novus Ordo form of the mass was all I ever really knew until I attended a mass the extraordinary form for the first time when I was in college. Not only was I drawn to the extraordinary form, but it gave me a better understanding and appreciation for the Novus Ordo form. I accept the validity of both forms but just wish we could get them right at all times. We need more people like you in our church to help remind us of how beautiful the mas is and what it should be. Thank you!
What an amazing case you've laid out. What a beautiful grace was given you to see that and to share it with us. I've never heard a more compelling argument for the extraordinary mass than what you have just shared. It was truly inspired and simultaneously inspiring! Thank you Brian and God bless.
I appreciate your perspective Brian. You kindly lay down the truth. God bless you and your family!!
I attended a vigil service before a bishop installation. No choir, no instruments, just a lone monk chanting in English with the faithful chanting in response. None of the faithful had known the chants beforehand, but the chant was easy and the words were printed in a program. The cathedral was filled with the voice of the people. Not a performance - just a Godly exchange.
I've been Catholic since 2012 from Protestantism. I have noticed this as well at times and only after watching your video does it make sense. You are spot on. Keep up the good work brother.
I’ve often had the same reaction, Brian. I wish the priests at a certain parish heard this. They like to make dumb jokes as if they were witty and superior to the liturgy as established.
Good job. Thanks for this video.
Prayer does not have to be "personalized" in order to be authentically from the heart. Same thing with sticking to the rubrics in a very externally dry way. There is nothing wrong with just reciting the low mass. Being present at such a mass can be heart-lifting as well.
I love hearing priests sing the prayers of the mass! I have been learning Gregorian chant and I love it.
I have joked with friends that one advantage of Mass in Latin is that the priests could not ad-lib, and even if they could, nobody in the pews would get it, so the ad-libbing priest would be denied the sought-after recognition of how clever he is.
Thank you Brian for raising that point. It really make me think and understand what's music role in Mass.
Regards from Zielona Gora in Poland
Brian,
brilliant, as usual,
just ah....
PLS save the ads for the end👀🙇♂️
God Bless you and your family
and thanks for keeping up the good fight
I really appreciate how passionate and eloquent you are .thankyou!
I'm so relieved to discover your video. I always think when I hear a priest ad lib that it betrays a profound arrogance to think you can improve Mass by inserting some of your own ideas. It has been a years-long struggle to try not react to these insertions with frustration. Then I think that my frustration is an appropriate response. And round and round it goes. It's not easy to get a beautiful Mass in my area. And if I go out of parish then my brain gets into the whole fact that the parish design is a wonderful one which keeps us rooted in our community. Round and round....I thank God for the grace he gives me that keeps me going to Mass!
The musical director at my parish loves to throw in his jazz licks, It absolutely infuriates me,
All the bad fruits from the bad seeds planted by Vatican 2
Remember that Vatican 2 happened for a reason, even before it
We have that problem here, too. I could spit blood.
The band at the novus ordo parish I have to go to since my bike broke down could easily do a post-rock score for a neo-western movie. It's not even close to the worst Spanish language OF Mass I've been to but it really makes me wonder. Their new pastor actually kicked them off the "stage" and stick them in a corner, because "it's not a stage, it's the sanctuary" and made the Spanish-speaking priest announce that during the Mass. I love that guy, and I hope he's got the balls and devotion to keep the hits coming.
Guys don't get me wrong, I love music esp Jazz, I'm even an accomplished pianist. Even I don't want a piano, drummer in a plexiglass box in the sanctuary. Guys and Gals we're Catholics, lets allow the liturgy to show that.
Also, yes I attend the extraordinary form of the Mass whenever I can, it's just a little far, but that's prob the only way to end all this self glorifying lack of worship.
Dominus Vobiscum
@@melaniebruno4632 if I may say so, from seeing your earlier comment as well, it sounds like you need to attend a new Parish.
God is our Muse and the Mass should be a love song to Him. Well said Brian.
"The love God has been poured into our heart, Alleluia. By His Spirit Who dwells in us, Alleluia, Alleluia."
Thank you! And how much am I grateful for the most beautiful music in holy mass: silence. Long minutes of silence and prayer. Especially before and after the consecration, after holy communion.
I go to a good parish in NZ but the last time we sang a traditional song outside of the Advent season might be more than fifteen years. I need to speak up about it as it bothers me greatly.
Yes! ❤️ The robotic words get in the way of our worship at the ordinary form. (We don't have a traditional latin Mass close enough to get to every week) The Mass deserves better. God deserves better!!
I know it's just an advert, but CleanBrowsing is great! Highly recommended from this dude named Ben.
Excellent, yes! Also, a great read is Why Catholics Can't Sing by Thomas Day. This books sums it up perfectly: deritualization of the liturgy, the priest as showman, etc.
AWESOME video, Brian. Great job explaining this issue. Well done.
I can't stand when at the sign of peace someone sticks their hand out to me but looks away from me. How can they give me the peace of the Lord when they don't even look at me?
There's no way there's just stock video of a woman shaking a paint can just lying around somewhere
Brian, thank you so much for all your videos. This fiddling with the mass started when the new mass was instituted and particularly when the person turned to face the congregation. It becomes a 'show'. Tradition teaches that all the saints and angels attend masses and if priests and congregants focused on that fact and on Christ's sacrifice for us, we would all be much better off.
The Eastern Orthodox Church has the highest retention rate of young Christians aged 18-35. And they are the most traditional of all the churches. Perhaps we should emulate them and go back to tradition. Church isn't supposed to be "modern and exciting." It's supposed to be an encounter with God: majestic, awe inspiring, and transcendent. Perhaps Catholics shouldn't be making responses in the first place? We should go back to the priest and server as it was done for a thousand years.
PS. I'm glad to see Brian come to the traditional side. Using words like "modernist" and realizing the beauty of the TLM.
I needed God and wanted a church deeper in practice than the protestant church I grew up in. It had become a watered down version...I found the eastern orthodox church and I fell in love with my Lord again and found a deep ancient faith and worship..Thank God.
@@cmoberg2036 Congrats on receiving True Sacraments. Hopefully, you will take the next step by leaving your schismatic church to join the One True Catholic Church under the papacy. Seeing as the EO church literally just had a schism between Greece and Russia, the proof is abundantly clear. Christ instituted a magisterium for a reason.
@@mosesking2923 Unam Sanctam Catholicam et Apostolicam Ecclesiam ✝️🇻🇦
Where did you get that statistics on 18-35 year old retention? Curious.
He always was lmao. But anyway, that stat is bad because of selection bias. They’re culturally devout still. If you leave your religion because it just doesn’t “speak to you” anymore or isn’t “pretty” anymore you’re honestly a little bitch
Thank you Brian. Well said! We've been to so many parishes where the priest does what he wants so that you cannot even follow the Mass. Even saw dancing girls with incense around the altar, older ladies with flags on poles swinging them down the aisle (were we in a Monty Python movie scene??), and a women singing duet Gospel reading with the priest. We finally gave up and go to Traditional Latin Mass and worship as we should. It's peaceful and right! God bless you!
What you describe sounds like "Susan" took over the parish. I thought my parish was bad.
I am an Eastern Orthodox convert. When I was 16 I walked into and Orthodox Church for the first time. It was life changing and absolutely felt like a holy place. I know there are Eastern Catholic Churches that have the same beautiful traditions.
One of you best videos yet!
Thank you for speaking about this. Good job.
The classical definition of amusement... My head exploded. Thank you for that knowledge!
I really appreciate your observations. I also agree with your conclusions.
Ha! Welcome to my world.
Singing the Mass as it was intended to be. This is the most important part of this presentation. Most people simply don't know and aren't taught that the Mass is intended to be sung. The other problem is, if they are made aware the Mass is intended to be sung, they don't venture to question or seek instruction as to how it should be sung. Thank God for St. Pius X and the internet. Good instructions can be found.
Not every priest can sing. ( and most readers do not know how to read scripture aloud). I agree about the liberty some priests take wiith the luturgy. Most of them were part of the lack of education in the seminiaries on the liturgy during the 70's. and now they are just comfortable doing what they always did.
I dont think I ever experienced the latin mass, but I am curious now.
See if you have a TLM FSSP perish near enough. Beautiful :)
@@prodigaldawtr7907 Nothing like that in my country Im afraid
I'm lucky to live near a parish not far from my house about 10 minutes away that does the Latin Mass. The only around around this area unfortunately. I've finally been going it for the past month and I am hooked. It's beautiful and even the low mass offers a sense of holiness and reverence you barely get even from a high solemn novus ordo mass. If you Google latting masses in (insert your county or area) you'll find options
@@prodigaldawtr7907 another good TML group is Christ the King
What country? Are there any Byzantine or Marionite Eastern Catholic churches?
I almost converted to Eastern Orthodoxy because the various Catholic liturgies simply don't hold a candle to what I experience during Divine Liturgy. I didn't end up converting because the Eucharist speaks to me within Catholicism, and I thought I was making the Liturgy and my preferences into an idol. Even the Latin masses in my area don't measure up. But I'm holding out hope that reverence and joy will return to Catholic Masses everywhere.
As an Orthodox brother I can say but totally agree. God bless!
Latin High Mass!
Latin High Mass!
Gregorian Chant!
We need to bring ourselves back to the doctrine!
We have so far fallen away from these places while pursuing a so called 'modern' lifestyle.
GodBless Brian for pointing this out!
Thank you, many of us Catholics do not realise how fortunate we are to have The Holy Mass
Amen, Brian!
Wow that was so well said! I never thought of it like that. We attends the traditional mass and I think what you said was so perfect. A love song to God WOW so true!
Thanks for posting this Brian. I am working on a Linguistic Anthropology project on this same subject.
Thanks so much for your analysis of amusement. Going to Byzantine Mass taught me about praying in song & about priesthood & sacrifice.
In the days of Essenes every action and prayer and position of the jewish priests and celebrants had to be exact. I heard on a youtube vid, the Orthodox Priest saying the order and prayers as well as the hand motions and where one stood all had to be exact (within reason of course) or the entire Divine Liturgy was invalid.
You are right..I am orthodox Christian and our liturgy is beautiful
Yeah it's the same with the Tridentine Mass. Every gesture and every little detail in the Tridentine Mass is done in a VERY strict and uniform way. Before Vatican II, newly ordained priests had to say Mass in the presence of a Cannon Lawyer, so that the lawyer could make note on his clipboard, of any slight mistakes that the new priest would make. Back then, making even the slightest mistake in the liturgy was considered to be sinful, because even a meager misperformance of a gesture or mispronunciation of a word was considered to be a violation of sacred liturgical law.
Wow, have things really changed or what?!? HAHA The church today almost feels like a different church now, when it comes to the liturgy. Any individual priest nowadays, can just celebrate Mass in his own individual way, any way he wants! Gone are the days of rigid uniformity out of reverence for God.
Give it another 10 to 15 years and you will see more and more singing (chanting) the prayers of the mass. EWTN is slowly reintroducing it in the broadcasts of the daily mass as they integrate both Latin and English responses.
For a young man talking to the camera, this is top notch. JRR Tolkien recommended to his son Christopher deliberately going to irritating Masses as a spiritual discipline. At 59, I'm a revert who was partly driven away for 26 years because of the sheer dippiness of 1970s people's/folk Masses. Even today my teeth grate when I walk into the Nave and see the guitar and drum set up beside the Sanctuary. Then I have to take Tolkien's advice and concentrate on the Tabernacle.
I agree with most of what is said in this video. But I find it so much easier to enter into the prayers of a quiet Low Mass (as it was once called) without the distraction of music. These kinds of Masses no longer seem to exist on Sundays, but only on weekdays. I crave silence at Mass.
Very insightful. Thank you for this.
I once went to a Mass in Chicago in a parish called “Holy Cross”. There was a priest there who during the consecration said “ This symbolizes my body” instead of this IS my body. I was still a teenager when this happened, and my parents took me there a couple times after, and whenever this priest said the mass he would say the consecration in this way. I’m 26 years old now, and whenever I remember this is disturbs me deeply.
I recently left a parish that had clapping, dancing, screaming, the priest invites the laity to “bless” others with him. It was terrible. I’m so angry and frustrated over all this.
Today my mom told me at some point the congregation just burst out clapping at the priest.
My aunt also posted a picture of her priest wearing a crown during the entire mass. I’m so upset about all this.
Sounds like they are going kind of insane inside that church
Artemisarrow In Novus Ordo parishes. After all this I began looking for an FSSP Latin mass parish, and the difference is tremendous! I love my new parish.
@@j.r.r5863 Lucky you, I saw such insanity, corruption, defenders of pedophile and gay priests, badly worded and empty Masses inside the parishes in my city (sorry if my terms are incorrect, english is not my first language) I just went independent or non denominational. I rather be alone than with bad company, as the saying goes. And the bad singers at the church with their rock and modern music instead of the classic choir I used to hear when I was little were driving me insane wherever I went. And I'm Gen Z xc whose idea was to "modernize" the choir?
I never been to a latin mass :/ there are non held in my city.
Artemisarrow Well, I understand your frustration, but leaving the church is just as bad as being a modernist. I would stay even if I couldn’t find a Latin mass parish. I’m not Catholic for a priest, the pope, or the people. I’m Catholic for the God who died to give me His church and the sacraments. Only the Catholic Church has the blessed sacrament and the other 6, only the church has sacred tradition, apostolic succession, and all that is independent on weather the people within her sin or not. The church is run by men, of course there will be sin. Judas was one of the first priests. Read the Early Church fathers, they dealt with these issues from the beginning of the church. No matter how evil the priest may be or how modernist, the sacraments are the same because they come from God’s Grace not the priest’s personal holiness. We have to stay and clean up this house for Our Lord like the saints of the reformation not jump ship like Luther.
That being said, have you tried looking online to see if there is one near you? Have you looked into Catholic Churches of different rites like Chaldean Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, Coptic Catholic or Maronite Catholic? The mass for these other rites tends to be a lot more traditional than the Novus Ordo. But you’d be in full communion with the church.
@@j.r.r5863 Mmmm I didn't even know they were so many others :D I'll look at it, thanks. And no, when I mean non denominational I mean those churches that don't particularly fight over who's right, just like to carry the Mass or Eucharist. I dislike protestant churches because they seem so insane too and don't give me the silence I crave to hear God xc or pass half the time criticizing other religions instead of bettering themselves.
Great comment about modern thinking of music being amusement. Also love your ideas of Mass being sung. Being an organist I can appreciate it.
Brian, you are absolutely RIGHT!!! Liturgy should ALWAYS be chanted. It elevates the words of the text; moreover, it touches a part of the heart and mind in a way that simple recitation never can. This is why the Divine Liturgy in the East is NEVER recited, but always chanted. It is also why the Talmud states that to simply "read" the texts of scripture (without chant) is so wrong. Unfortunately, in the Latin West we have shied away from chanting the liturgy, often because we don't think we can do it well or because we're afraid it will unreasonably prolong the liturgy.
As a young priest, I served a Melkite Parish for years. When I became the pastor of a Latin Parish, I re-introduced chanted Liturgy to the parish both on weekdays and Sundays. Initially, the reaction in the pews was negative; but as time went on, it became accepted, and by the time I moved on 11 years later, it was like people couldn't imagine recited Mass! Neighbouring clergy, however, generally reacted negatively, chielfly
because they'd never seen it before, and consequently thought I was importing "Byzantinisms".
French Dominican Father Andre Gouzes has compiled a wealth of chanted texts for Mass and Office, and some of these have been translated into English and even recorded for sale. Benedictine Father Samuel Weber has also produced an English Gradual and Office Book which puts the words of the texts to a very simple chant (with Gregorian notation which is VERY easy to learn). So, too, has Adam Bartlett in his "Simple English Propers". Finally, ORIENTING the Liturgy is another great assist. Priests are often too afraid to attempt this, but I can say from my
own experience that, both from my point of view as a priest as well as that of parishioners who've experienced it, it's worth its weight in indulgences.
How about it?! Thank you for this and all of your videos!
If you haven't already, check out The Liturgy Guys podcast. They address many of these concerns and call for a revisit of what the councils actually laid out as being the most privileged aspects of the mass (Gregorian chant, polyphony, more [not exclusive] use of Latin).
I just did listen to a podcast on VII - I found it very slanted ( too hip, hop and happening NOT - for me) At the end there was a very misguided answer to a question on laypeople touching the blessed Sacrament, blethering about extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, which was at best confused, but I suspect very slanted at trying to pass off lies as truth. So I will not be listening to that again.
The Episcopal church for a long time has accepted with a call out to all guest who are baptized Christians to come to receive the sacraments at the altar rail as this is the Lord's table and not the Episcopal church table. That was great, until now I notice some priests without approval of any Bishop ; are inviting non-baptised adults at Mass to come and receive communion regardless. Big trouble there.
As a Lutheran pastor, I approve of this video.
So well done Brian, It was never the laity who wanted the Mass to become the horrible state as it is now, this was done all by the Clergy, at all levels. Anyone who expressed their concern to their priest, bishops got ridiculed, ignored, name called, etc, etc. I got so fed up seeing the destruction of the Roman rite so I started attending the Byzantine rite. It was the rite of my mother's family so I was always familiar, so it was an easy transition and never looked back.
I am not amused by the EF but I would take it over the OF anyday.
We studied the GIRM (General instruction of the Roman missal) and it's shocking how little it's followed in different countries.
Our most recent previous pastor made changes to conform with the GIRM, introducing them slowly, but the people went up in arms and clamored for a new pastor. Got one, too. So it's back to the same kind of parish that led me, as a young woman, to think I could find the truth in any religion, even no religion, as long as you're good, right?
The best I got was a priest who would try to introduce some Latin to the mass as well and singing things like the Kyrie. He didn't last long. :(
As an African Anglican I have experienced both "inculturation" (the Roman Catholic idea based on Vatican II) and indigenization (basically an ancient idea that everything could be translated but still remain similar enough for various ethnicities to recognise it - an Orthodox Catholic idea carried over to Protestant Catholics).
The chants of the Latin NO can easily be used for an English NO. Why it is not being done is simply Seminary training (priests are taught that a lot of the Liturgy is based on their preferences), Liturgical materials (provide so many options) and Parish culture(each Parish has how it does it).
As the Anglican Ordinariate shows the problem NO Roman Catholics have can easily be solved with compromise. Tridentine Mass missals already have translations in them. Singing the Tridentine Mass in English won't kill anyone.
Also the objective of ad orientem is to face the Jerusalem Temple. From modern geography using an East-West axis the Church faces Jerusalem either way and versus populum and ad orientem does not matter. Otherwise you can come over to an Anglican Communion Parish for tutorials in indegenization.
The Anglican Church recently accepted homosexuality among priests
@@MikeyJMJ The Anglican Communion does not accept homosexuality among priests in any form. The Church of England and some Western branches accept celibate men and women who admit they have homosexual tendencies to the presbyterate.
It is a position the Roman Catholic Church has accepted itself. You have a lot of gay but celibate priests and some who are not celibate and this is a well-accepted fact by the heirarchy in Rome.
However for most Anglican Communion Provinces being openly gay and claiming celibacy won't wash. They don't have a policy of don't ask don't tell.
My peeve is that a priest would tell jokes or say something amusing or entertaining in his homily or at other times during Mass. It's basically the ego taking over. This totally disrupts our focus on the liturgy. But I did hear a priest who read everything with great reverence and that made all the difference. He meant every word that was said. So I think the important thing is to have the proper disposition or mind-set and humility.
'He who sings prays twice..' St. Agustine
Make Mass Great Again
James, By speaking/listening to a pagan language Jesus never spoke?
@@gracepilgrim7765 huh?
@Tom Jenkins Repetition is the father of learning.
@Tom Jenkins Ok Boomer
@@gracepilgrim7765 You mean, the baptised universal language of the Church for 1700 years? The one shared by Jerome, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Hrosvita, Anselm, Hildegard, Galileo, Bellarmine, Erasmus, More, Fulton Sheen, Gregorian Chant, Mozart & Faure's Requiem, &, dare I say it, Vatican II's official documents?
True. Chant points to the sanctity of everything in the mass.
Hey Brian! I liked your video a lot.
However I'd like to point out a risk that is somewhat easier to be found in Traditionalist environments. That is the temptation of arranging the traditional liturgy in the way of a magnificent concert (to the extreme of the extravangance of hiring opera soloists) or also setting a display of highly attractive vestments and liturgical elements with the purpose of the delight of refined eyes.
I think that both inclinations betray the ethos of the Roman liturgy, which has been historically characterized by the silence, plain chant and visual simplicity. There's a video record of a Pontifical Mass celebrated by the then Archbishop Burke at the Clear Creek Abbey which shows the beauty of what I'm talking about. :)
Great talk Brian :D
We need to start listening & praying with more Gregorian Chant to be sure
i was in this dilemma approximately 15 yrs ago ,i found a parish with a no nonsense priest, who sticks to the rubrics of the mass ,and definitely preaches on the gospel and the traditions and the teachings of the church ,on the other hand I have my mother's Parish which is a good parish and the priests are good but they're stuck in the sappy 70s drives me crazy !!! I think I'm going to have to choose between the two since my mom's getting on, but I think I'll be stuck there. Why do they create this atmosphere of division it's so sad. Why can't they just stick to what's wrote !!!!!!
have u read quran jo,all the best
The problem I see in music during Mass is that the musicianship is so low grade it simply becomes a distraction..
You have so much a point. I've always felt mass was kinda boring and even felt a reluctance to go to mass - outcome: I mostly only go on sun- and holidays. Even though I know that this is not how it is supposed to be. Of course, going to mass or not is MY decision - I cannot blame the music. But I still think that it would be a good idea if mass was chanted like it is suppose to be. Here in Germany, you can even find masses in the extraordinary form that are recited monotoneously.
The "I confess" is often skipped over in my local church.
Not only has music evolved into a form of entertainment, many people attend church to be entertained. This is especially true in Protestant churches where I spent many years. I have only been in two parishes, so can’t speak to other forms or styles of liturgy, but I attend to worship and as I was catechized, to participate as a “priest” in the priesthood of believers to offer the sacrifice of Mass. it isn’t about me, it is about our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is the Catholicism which you elected to pursue! Orthodoxy is devoid of this spiritual chaos.
Drives me crazy when they do this.
Grandstanding on the back of the Mass.
I also dislike these personal eulogies at funerals
JRR Tolkien also would, when the Novus Ordum hit the UK, speak his responses in Latin.
I went to Mass in the central cathedral of my city yesterday. Perhaps because everyone was all spread out they said the responses very quietly.
Overall I had a good experience because of the beauty of the space but I did miss the vigor I find in my local parish. Went to Mass there this morning as well. We always sing the responses on Sunday Mass. Weekday is a bit different.
My catholic church here in Houston sings the prayers. It's called the Catholic Charismatic Center.
Go here fellow Houstonian it will be worth your time: 24001 Aldine Westfield Rd, Spring, TX 77373
ITT: Stop blaming Novus Ordo for human shortcomings
Sometimes love and devotion do speak. It is not necessary "diverging from the standard"!!!
Wow. You totally hit every point. As a Traditional Catholic, I had never seen a Novus Ordo mass, and when I did, it literally broke my heart. There was so much missing, and it was so lifeless that I finally understood why we always had gone to Traditional. There's a reason that the Church has tried to preserve her Traditions, despite the modern bishops trying to destroy them. It is because they are from God, and not from the modern world.
Thank you. God Bless
Some issues of wording is just translation though. You mention the Our Father prayer. "Hallowed be thy name," is not a particularly great translation of that prayer, but it helps it rhyme better and thus in a world where many people were unable to read it became advantageous to make prayers like that one rhyme rather than to make it more accurate. Today though I'm not sure that is as necessary, but that's what people know.
Many great points. Thank you.
In the Norwegian Lutheran church, the liturgy is mostly sung or chanted. I love it compared to the spoken (droned) liturgy of the Anglicanism I grew up with (though High-Church Anglican liturgy is chanted... though High-Church Anglicanism is rare in Ireland where I'm from).
Well, it's a tragedy that the composers after the second Vatican Council didn't compose Mass settings. Oh wait, they did.
The original mass of the St Louis Jesuits, made for the first English edition of the Roman Missal, is as glorious as anything that Healy Wilan did for the book of common prayer. Actually, a lot of the early stuff, which they did in their album "Neither Silver nor Gold" is very meditative. I highly recommend the likes of "All Things Have A Time" or "My Son Has Gone Away" for the cream of the St. Louis Jesuits.
Well said!!! Thank you. Lets put the focus on God not on us. Our modern world is all about me, me and me!
You’re so right! It’s like we have our own trinity, me myself and I.
Joseph hahaha....I love it!
Great video. I live in Brazil great majority Catholic, you wouldn't believe what we see here. A few days ago was "black awareness day", a civilian holiday in some states, not a religious one in any way. You wouldn't believe what I could see on Masses celebrated that day by some priests, with the political opportunism that went along with it.
finally someone who doesn't blame the second vatican council for the shortcomings in modern liturgy approach