MCU Multiverse War: 616 or 199999? Full History Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 เม.ย. 2023
- Is the Marvel Cinematic Universe Earth-616 or Earth-199999? Erik Voss finally resolves the debate! Start speaking a new language in 3 weeks with Babbel 🎉. Get up to 60% off your subscription ➡️ Here:
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The Marvel film universe of the MCU has long been given the numerical designation of "199999," a separate universe alongside the primary comics universe of "Earth-616." But in recent years, titles like Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Loki, Avengers Endgame, and Spider-Man Far From Home have suggested that the main film universe is actually 616 as well, creating a debate among Marvel fans that recently got referenced in the Spider-Man Across the Spiderverse trailer by Miguel O'Hara. Erik Voss looks into the real history of this debate to explain where these numbers came from, and dispelling several myths!
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Your cute
It's 616, do not question Feige you arrogant bastard.
1:49 como mexicano apruebo su español con un 7 de 10.
can yall do superman and lois??
please reference Schuman resonance and sacred geometry in regards to gaurdians 2 and ego I believe it plays a significant role in the MCU world building and how matter works within the franchise and how celestials manipulate that matter.
Perhaps it’s because different multiversal organizations have different numerical designations for different universes.
I mean that would make the most sense but they will probably never actually specify that in a movie lol
Especially if they don’t coordinate the numbers which each other. They’d have no clue what either organization labeled their universe
That’s head canon, we need a definite answer.
Yeah it would be highly unlikely, virtually impossible, for them to come up with the same 3 digit number.
@@Nytellem we really don't. just use your imagination
I think it being 199999 is better. In the grand scheme of the multiverse it all exists together. they should take pride in creating their own universe instead just copying from the comics when there is way too much difference between.
Yeah, absolutely. Calling it 616 to me just feels like 'Member Berries. Like, there's no point to it other than going, "Hey, remember this number? It's a great number, right?"
It feels so thoughtless to me
@@legendswarble2845 exactly, it’s just fab service and trying to appeal to us , but to me it keeps pissing me off
100%
It makes no sense for MCU to be Earth 616 and Earth 616 is just a Easter Egg Reference and it’s always has been Earth 199999 no matter what.
Well it's all really about perspective the mcu can be 616 but to others can be listed as 19999 there is no proper way to map a multiverse so I suppose call the mcu whatever number you like
If two realities haven't made contact yet they're going to make different numbering systems.
Don’t matter the writers need to declare what is the proper universe number.
@@Nytellem that doesn’t make sense tho 💀
@@Nytellem no it does matter because the illuminati designated the main mcu universe as 616 but other universes that haven’t made contact with 838(illuminati) could name the main mcu as something else. There’s no “proper name🤓🤓🤓” it’s just what people call it.
@@tylerxxc1783 if u enter 616 in germatra it’s the devils number or Lucifer or whatnot. 666 is actually something else is why they paired it with the beast
@@tylerxxc1783 if we are talking about lore accuracy, Spiderman 2099 should be the correct one because he is doing a better job at handling multiverse stuff, farrr better than doctor strange
I always just assumed that, in-universe, the MCU would refer to itself as Earth-616. But, within the larger Multiverse, it would be seen as Earth-199999. No matter how popular the MCU is, Earth-616 will forever be the main Marvel Comics Universe. The source of which the MCU will base its stories on. Maybe calling the MCU “616” is just Marvel’s way of calling the MCU the main live action Marvel Universe, where all the Marvel heroes reside.
I do agree that, by the time we get to Secret Wars, the MCU might soft reboot its universe and make it more like the Marvel Comics Universe. The X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Inhumans, hopefully more access to Spider-Man’s characters, as well as characters that have yet to be introduced like Nova, or Rick Jones, or Amadeus Cho. Maybe even soft reboot certain characters to match their comic counterparts, like Zendaya’s MJ.
Yes. That simple.
THIS is how we need to look at it.
I see the pre-mcu as the main live action universe(s)
Thats how i look at it too. In my opinion, the mcu people think theyre 616 but theyre actually just 19999 lol.
Tldr: they’re scratching the tip of the iceberg when they don’t know the quantity of each multiverse like Miguel does
I believe that 199999 is in reference to the Mcu in real life with the comics but in the films it is perceived as 616 because it is the main universe
nah
I think that makes the most sense 👍
Unnecessarily confusing. They need to just call it what it is, like they do everything else.
I'm just simply glad we're in the multiverse now.
Same
@@lexramstudios1386same here
Sameeee
We are it a reality now
this was a well thought out research video on a topic i didn't really care about but now i understand the importance of not just throwing around the 616 number as a non comic book reader
616 is still the go to this is like asking whats the appropriate way of saying salmon or almond it literally does not matter in any real life situation.
The best trick Kang ever pulled was convincing the universe he didn't exist.
I'd imagine every universe would create their own numbering scheme.
But if that's true wouldn't 838 name themselves universe 1? Meaning some told them their number
@Jesus Perez No, you see in the 838 universe number system 838 is their 1. Counting goes 838, 510, 616 ... lol But yeah that makes sense. Unless there is some hierarchy to the universes. Like there's a bright center of the multiverse and the one closest is 1 and in the stack of universes you get 838, 616 etc away from the bottom.
@@DrewTrox I mean there literally is a bright center to the MCU multiverse, the citadel at the end of time where HHR presided. or, if you're talking about a place within the universes, not without, the sacred timeline, AKA earth 616, AKA earth 199999, whatever you wanna call it is basically earth 1 of the MCU multiverse
Also remember that Raimi confirmed that Defender Strange is from 617.
@LeRoi Rodriguez, Jr. Lolololololoololololol
That explains a lot. Ha ha😂
I think that 199999 refers to the entire MCU, while the 616 seen within the films refer to that specific universe within 199999. So when the MCU is referenced in other Marvel media, it's Earth-199999. When The Watcher in What If... is saying how events in a universe diverged, he's using his version of Earth-616 as a base point.
wait so there's two 616?🤔🤔🤔
@@thatguy-os3zftechnically yes because in spider-verse Peter b parker is from earth 616b
Ok., so you Marvel Earth 199999 is also called MCU Earth 616 since any marvel universe around Earth 199999 are all Cenimatic they just named themselves by 616 is that right?
Which also means that Kevin Feige is trying to establish MCU as main Cenimatic Universe 😂😂😂 BOLD!!! MOVE!!!
I don’t think it really matters but the comics and movies being a separate universes is fun.
Apparently every property has their own designations. There's one specifically for the 80s cartoons, the Blade Movies, the 1940s Captain America film serials, etc
@@TheoRae8289 still doesnt really matter
What if:
For Comics, they will always saw themself as 616, and perceive live action movies as 199999.
And on the opposite, movie will saw themself as 616, and perceive comics as 199999?
Huh. I never thought about it like that.
Interesting 🤔💭🧐
That's one interesting, thought-provoking what if. 🤔
It does seem like an easier way to look at it. Like there's no universal registry so we'll just designate ourselves however we want.
nah in earth 616 comics thepretty much all know they are 616
I've always thought that it was 199999 because, in sony canon, Peter B's universe was 616 in ITSV
But, in disney canon, it is recognised as 616
And even ITSV is wrong about 616
PETER B PARKER IN ITSV isn't from 616
@@stephenblankson7611 he's from the 616 in the movie
@@alicearaujo2030 he isn't from 616. 616 peter parker literally does completely different shit. He also even diedidk if he got resurected but i remember he died at the end of the spiderverse in the comics
@@stephenblankson7611 It literally says 616 in the movie. It's not the same 616 as the comics, but it is a 616 universe
616 is the designated home dimension for readers/viewers. It creates sense of home and ownership to characters from this dimension as the "original" version, and that they are of utmost importance. might be how Feige interprets it.
Right and mcu 616 still is under the overall banner of earth 199999
I want to know just how they came up with these variant earth designations.
Who, exactly decides which system they were going to follow for naming each world.
I know that's probably a whole 'nother movie to make, but it would answer soo many questions.
Miles' Earth is 1610, which is supposed to be Ultimates comics, where he was like 13 when Parker was killed.
Spider-Ham is from 8311, where all the heroes are anthropomorphic animals.
A couple Earth's are numbered based on the year/era they were themed around. 2099 being an obvious example. Mostly the numbers seem randomized, because stories that took place well into the future of one Earth sometimes have earth designations that are different from the Earths they are supposed to take place on. Earth-5 is 30k years into the future of Earth-005. Most of the numbers are temporary because they were likely one-off What If stories.
I went through 19 pages of Earth numbers on the marvel fandom wiki for examples 😂
Whoever wrote the comic
Incanon it's the captain Britain corps
The naming system in the comics was created by the Captain Britain Corps, who maintain order in the Multiverse.
Keep up with the great content 🎉
I agree with what he says about interpretation, it's very likely that each universe has just labeled the main MCU as another number because it just depends on who interprets or labels the universe at that time and in that universe.
I just think of the MCU as a parallel multiverse. Nobody ever said it couldn’t be like the dc omni-verse.
Yes! Cinematic (MCU) Multiverse, Comic Multiverse, and Spider-Verse Multiverse
All have their own different 616
@@julianxamo7835 thus, it is Beyond the Multiverse.
@@1lham_edits Movie titles:
Thanks for clearing this up
Another great video.💯💯
What if we find out that we have been slowly experiencing an incursion of the two universes, 616 and 19999?? That would explain the inconsistencies
You missed a 9.
That is a possibility 🤔
This is how I see it. 199999 is from our prospective. The entire MCU as a whole is 199999. But within that 199999 universe, they have their own 616, 838 universes. The primary focus is the main mcu timeline 616. You can’t say MCU is 616 coz MCU contains many multivurse stories now. So MCU =199999
Then that means spiderverse takes place in a universe outside of 199999 despite being inside of it?
Excellent explanation on this debate 👍
Comics and cinemtaic could be two different multiverses
This is exactly what it is, that also explains the MCU America Chavez being the only one in the entire multiverse (no variants)
@@julianxamo7835
Exactly.
So far read 22 years of the comics and i'd rather this not be 616 since so many important characters are missing
Honestly, I felt like there were so many small inconsistencies in MOM (Powers, Wanda, etc.) that I think making it in a different universe makes sense. I know those inconsistencies are just from the directing and things, but I would honestly be glad if it were retconned to have the Movie earth 616 be in a different universe and make the main MCU universe be 199999.
The way I see it, by designating 616 to the MCU main universe, Feige is confirming that it is impossible for the comics universe to crossover with the movie universe. They are separate multiverses.
Now that doesn’t make sense to me… this is getting too concluded.. there can be different universes..sure… but different multiverses?? Wtf is that then ?
@@BrianMoviesMaker fr, and in comics as it says in this video, they maked reference to the live action movies as being in the same multiverse
@@BrianMoviesMaker didn't the beyonder say in the comics says the multiverse is but a drop in an ocean. So there can definitely be multiple multiverses.
@@BrianMoviesMaker the mcu is an adaption of the comics and isn’t connected at all
@CMovie Studios it's called the omniverse.
“Hunh…I guess that would put me on Earth-1696969.”-Deadpool.
I’ve noticed the only similarities between miles and Peter from 616 is they both caused events that brought other Spider-Men into their universe maybe that’s something maybe not but it seems like Miguel wouldn’t let them in either if they tried
I think this timeline is 199999 currently and it's slowly turning to 616 where all the events which happened would be nullified and something like a nexus event with Kang would reset it to the movie version of the comics. (I guess Ironman returns then)
I really do believe that many of these movies are actually different universes and that is way they are not as connected. That part of the secret wars is all of these universes coming together
You're missing a HUGE point here. The 616 designation in comics is used in universe by the Captain Britain corps, who have representation in every reality. So there is an organization that officially exists in the MCU and comics that designates the core comic universe as 616. While we may not have seen the Captain Britain Corps representative from the MCU on the screen yet, canonically they exist (much like the Web of Destiny covers all realities).
Also, this matters for more than just "nerd whining." These designations are essentially addresses, and are needed for understanding location in cross-universal/cross-media stories. Spider-Maguire and Spider-Garfield have canonically appeared in the core comics universe during Spiderverse stories, so when I mention them appearing in the 616, that should make it easy for people to know what I am talking about....but now the MCU calling themself the 616 has confused that issue. Similarly, if a multiversal comic story wants to send a character to the MCU...how do they convey that?? They typically just give the earth designation in the corner of the panel....but now they are both 616, so which universe is the panel referring to??
What you have written is correct for comic law, the cinematic adaptation and all animated TV series as, Marvel's own database list the MCU as Earth 199999 but also, Aliases MCU (editorial) Dimension 616.
Examples.
Fox Universe, X-Men Earth 10005 - Fantastic Four Earth 121698, The Incredible Hulk 1970's TV series Earth 400005
but like he said the comics have no say in mcu canon
@@circe2258 the comics are mcu Canon is what he's saying. You can't undo a universal system of that reality just cause you want the mcu to be unique. It doesn't work that way.
@@ToObIg12345 no the mcu is a adaption there is no proof comics are mcu canon
@Circe 🇺🇦 That doesn't make sense considering Tom, Andrew and Toby's spidermen were brought into or mentioned the comics at one point...
There is a solution: It could be that the no way home multiverse event happened in more than one universe.
Avengers Secret War is so gonna be the main comic Universe vs the MCU.
4:48 you got me here, bruh! 😆😆😁😸👍👌
Why can’t 19999 still have a spidey and Dr.Stange that still messed stuff up.
2:56 but the entry date on Earth 199999 is 6.16.2013
still they placed a 616 easter egg on the date
To me, outside their universe looking in as a viewer it's 199999. In their universe they can say and name it whatever they want. I imagine with the infinite universe there's infinite universes naming eachother different or the same things 😅.
Perhaps in MoM, they thought Strange was from 616, but they mistook him for another Strange. But gonna go ahead agree with Iman, where it simply cannot be 616. Doesn't matter if the director/writer/creator/whatever makes that decision. If they want it to be cannon, then both comics have the convenient system of a multiverse where every story ever made is cannon in its own universe within that multiverse.
First marvel content in a week, plz do more I miss it
Thank you Erik.
The 199999 thing is just something made up for a guide book proving those things aren't proof read, making it none cannon. Feige sees the MCU as an adaption of the comics so the live action version of the 616 as that what they are adapting which makes sense.
But that's not even close. Feige didn't even adapt the main marvel universe from the comics which is the 616, he adapted the ultimate marvel universe which is earth 1610. Which is why it's blasphemy to comic readers
It makes sense from an adaptation idea yes, but the problem comes in with how hard it makes to differentiate the two, as you may say 616 meaning comics and someone thinks you're referring to the MCU.
That and the fact that, thr MCU barely sticks to the source material as it is, it is barely anything like the comics it is meant to be adapting and that's where the biggest problem comes in. I know you would want to have some leeway, but with the MCU it has so incredibly different to most of the comics, it is barely recognisable to it. With some of the heroes and villains being men instead of women, or women instead of men. With some having wildly different powers to their comics counterparts. Others, with no fault of thr MCU, but others not being able to be in it due to license issues. And a wide variety of other issues and problems in it. It doesn't mean the MCU is nad because they aren't following the Comcis closely, but they are so wildly different to the 616 comics that they can no longer with full truth say that it is a comics adaptation.
As if we take the idea of adaptation and take Harry Potter, it is not perfect to the books but it is a very close adaptation to the hooks (bar the bigger things like hermione) and that is a true adaptation, it stuck as close as it could to the source material with a little bit of leeway to make it special in their own right. Yet, with the MCU it has gone beyond that little bit of leeway to the point of being vastly different to what it is meant to be adapting, so no longer can truthfully be seen as an adaptation, and more an inspired work. That doesn't make it bad, it just means it is nothing like the 616 comics universe anymore and by calling it that and deciding that it is appropriate to call it that really just sends a horrible message to the comics fans, as they are taking their inspired work and acting as if it is an adaptation of the comics universe, which only makes those fans feel as though they are trying to retcon most of the comics, due to the massive differences between the two now. So it is just easier to call it 199999, to make it obvious that it is in fact an inspired universe, but still one that is equally as important.
It’s 199999
Hey Eric, great vid but I got a question.
What if he who remains was actually from the 838 universe, that would explain the 616 designation both in 838 and the TVA as well as the teleporting method and all
would it be so meta if Kang and his manipulation of the multiverse is involved in this numbering issue?
The Captain America comic is different from the one in real life. IRL it features Bucky on the cover too.
This calms my mind abit about this 616 not being MCU thing.
It's real simple. Kevin's remarks about this being 616, is that this film universe is the origin universe where most of the titular characters originate or end up discussing etc.
I’d like it to be earth 19999999 but I agree it won’t be official until a character like the one above all says what it is.
True
I'm reminded of the "Futurama" episode where the characters from the main continuity called it "Earth 1" and the characters from the parallel universe called it "Earth A"....
In the agents of shield series, the teams call sign is "Shield 616"
I perceive it as two different Multiverses one for comics and the other cinematic
You could say it's a multiverse of madness trying to label each universe. When each universe label each other without share information about it.
Arsenio Hall said it best in Coming to America..."If his Momma call'em Clay, Imma call'em Clay"! So in other words, if 616 designated in a Kevin Feige Movie, then 616 it is!!!😂😂😂😂😂
5:50 Just worth pointing out that in the video when you googled for mentions of 199999 before 2017 you write 19999 instead. :'D
The point unravels itself as meaningless with that line alone “WE have designated YOUR universe as 616”, that doesn’t mean every universe has a set numbering because there’s nobody established as above all of them in the MCM as of yet. The 838 universe isn’t some authority figure on the multiverse. They’re just ahead of the 616.
Concerning this situation, I’d like to quote the Joker “Why so serious?”😂
I live how Erik and I cane to the same concludion about Secret Wars
My brother and I were just talking about this 2 days ago.
You actually fooled me lol I thought the video was over
I don't think I've ever seen a NR video so early!!
those comics are clearly based on the year end date they were released, the number 1999 was the year that must've come out September on the 9th
I have always looked at it as any timeline that has ever been the sacred timeline is 616 and what ever number it started with as there have been may multiversal wars some not including the 616 universe. That was Peter B. Paker is in 616, MCU is in 616, Comics are in 616, but also the MCU is earth 199999, Comics are still 616, and Peter B Paker's universe is unknown beyond that.
What if we are watching the events from both Earth 199999 and 616.
No one said that events from both the universes have to be different. They can be pretty close.
Maybe they explore this in future Avengers movies
The comic book designations are those of the Captain Britain corps whilst those in the MCU are just from those in that universe.
A rewatch of Guardians Volume 2 sounds like torture.
Did you realize that the soldiers rushing Monica in The Marvels trailer are the same ones Miss Minutes uses in the video explaining the multiversal war?
10K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 You're welcome! Thanks! 😊
Notes: Good job! Quite logical! 🖖
not me almost clicking off, i got played lmao
I’m on Iman’s side, simple as that.
I agree you
4:49 that got me
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks the MCU will be rebooted after secret wars. Thank you!!!!
Why would it be?
Honestly I’m calling it the ultimate universe because that’s where most of the material comes from
people keep saying that and I'm just wondering how many of them have actually read ultimate comics, like a very small fraction of the MCU is based on the ultimate universe, it's really just in things like Nick Fury's race, and he still acts like the 616 Fury, just looks more like the 1610 one
I like to think that since the MCU is a Multiverse it has all the different “earths” within it, the main universe it takes place in being 616, but the other universes we were shown in Multiverse of Madness and Loki, and anything else that mentions a Multiverse all exist within 199999.
So basically a 1999999 is one Multiverse for the entire MCU but there’s another one within it that has a bunch of other universes with all the identified Earths like 616.
That way they can adapt any universe from the comics into a live action version.
It kind of doesn't matter what characters in one universe say about another universe.... Because it doesn't make sense for all characters in all universes to agree on a specific numerical designation. So you could have numerous universes calling themselves "616" and calling another universe 1999999.
7:34 Wrong. There were several major deviations from the Harry Potter books that make the HP movies their own separate thing. That's why there's a separate subreddit for the books and the movies.
For me its easy
In the movie/series universe:616 is the mcu
In the Comics/Books Universe: 616 is the main earth of the comics
Ohhh yes I love the marvelous content
Louis D'Esposito hinted that when the non-snapped Avengers used the Quantum tunnels in End Game, they caused a universe shift - and 199999 became 616.
They’ve been dropping 616 references in the MCU for years. Agents of Shield is full of them (until they split off into a different universe at the end of season four)
I think, both. With the multiverse saga tearing the MCU apart, I think there could be multiple universes running side-by-side.
Secret war gonna be about how we been watching a different universe this whole time
It's just every universe likes to percieve their own universe as 616...so the comics will percieve itself as 616...and the movies as 19999, and in the movies it will be other way around
Each marvel project is going to be taking place in a different universe and we won't know.
Different people who know about the multiverse use different names either 616 or 199999
As a Hispanic I applauded when you spoke my language. Solid pronunciation. 👏
Perhaps MCU is always an incursion between 199999 and 616, they just have not fully collapse with one another because of the medium they use.
I got into Marvel because of the movies. I'm thinking of starting to read the comics now as well. Any suggestions for a "correct reading order?"
What if we've been see two different universes
Kevin Feige calls it 616. 838-universe numbered it 616.
But other universes has numbered it differently. I guess we'll find out.
8:21 What did you just say there🤯Eric?
What is all this building towards? What’s the overarching storyline?
If we watched all movies from phase 4 and 5 do we get a sense of purpose and threat?
Is Kang affiliated with the skrulls? Who is the protagonist for this phase? Who’s the antagonist for this phase? What are the two chads/boss-girls battling for?
What are the stakes and consequences for each movie?
Where are the character arcs?
The MCU
Fans when talking about 616: nooo!!!! Having to clarify comic 616 and movie 616 is bad, hard and stupid!!!
Also fans when having to clarify the Spider-Men:
*this is fine*
I was gonna be pissed if that was the end of the video lmao 🤣
I thought it was the end and turned it off. I'm only resuming the video now that I read this. I thought it was hilarious though. I wish he did end it there. 😂
“ *We’ve* designated your universe as 616”
That’s the point. Universes name other universes not based of what other universes name them.
Miguel also used his own technique to number universes
It isn’t some universal code amongst universes…
I’d like to think that in the What-If series, there just different Earths like E- 199504 or E-199609 etc etc
I think when it comes to numbering universes it doesn't really matter cause then there would be infinite other universes that would number a universe differently so it really doesn't matter at all
Maybe Miguel simply wasn't talking about the MCU