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Absolutely everything we know about the multiverse so far
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ส.ค. 2024
- This video looks at all the lore we've been given about the multiverse, incursions, timelines, Loki's tree and more!
#multiverse #marvel #mcu #watcher #whatif #disneyplus #captaincarter #doctorstrange #phase4 #phase5 #wanda #loki #lokiseason2 #incursions
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00:00 - Intro
01:51 - A short history of creation
06:24 - Loki dealt with the 616 universe
08:40 - Why are Loki variants so different?
10:47 - Which multiverse is Loki discussing?
12:49 - The Watch observes the 616 unvierse
14:06 - Is What If an animated universe?
15:15 - Why anchored universes are the key
18:04 - Traveling between branches
21:02 - Alternate universes create incursions
26:10 - Infinity stones and branches
27:40 - Defining the key terms and rules
31:35 - 3 models for the multiverse
40:02 - So, about the Spider-Verse
41:26 - Conclusion
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Another great video
The comics could be in a different omnivores
@abitofeverything4U did you see they confirmed Netflix shows are full cannon
@@giovannigiovanni.7220Thanks!
@@Cooper_118 I agree...that may be the answer.
he who remains saying in the season 1 finale "after i isolated our timeline" could be taken as he isolated 616 from the infinite megaverse to solely protect 616 from incursions, and formed it as the sacred timeline where kang is born in the 19th century, preventing him from crossing into other multiverses, cause as OB said, he was limited by the technology of his time. He perhaps never destroyed the other timelines (multiverses), but rather untangled 616 from the megaverse
This explanation sounds good especially after HWR briefly shows the stacked/alternate universes in his backstory
I agree 100%. I did a short vid on that in fact, if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/woisCB8zxms/w-d-xo.html. I think that's exactly what happened.
@@michaelwhite8586 Right! That explanation is spot on. I actually did a short vid on that in fact, if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/woisCB8zxms/w-d-xo.html. Love how it all ties together so well!
But Kang is from the 31rst century isnt he ???
@@ronself1979 Yes, that's where he was originally from, when he met the other Kangs. Then he created the loom and ruled over the sacred timeline after that.
The person at the end of the marvels saying that what just happened is supposed to be impossible makes even more sense now.
Excellent point!
very refreshing to see someone just freely talking about the marvels without any hate or negativity.
@@jr4android I thought it was a pretty ok movie, don’t understand the hate
@@jr4android unfortunately I feel like most people just hate on it cuz it’s the “cool” thing to do. I loved the marvels and can’t wait for it to hit Disney +
Me too ❤
This is it. This is the video I've been asking you do on discord! This is the ultimate guide to how the Multiverse works and everybody who is still confused should watch it! This needs 1 million views honestly!
Amazing work!
Thanks! So glad you kept suggesting it...I agree, it turned out really well. Really appreciate all the support!
So funny seeing your comment here after recognizing you for your stickied r/MarvelStudios post
@@virtuloso Oh, that's cool. There was a post about the YT channel on r/MarvelStudios? Niiiice!
I think dream walking as a concept NEEDS to be explored more. If when you dream, you see a variant of yourself from another universe not branched from your own, then where do all dreams go? Is there a dream realm that oversees the entirety of the multiverse? This could hint at Nightmare being a multiversal threat or the dream realm being one of if not the only place in the multiverse where beings from unanchored universes can exist without risk of incursions, setting the stage for Secret Wars.
I love that idea...we really need Nightmare added to the MCU and that's a great way to bring him in. Nice call!
@@AbitofEverything4U he needs to be the villain in Doctor Strange 3 since he was supposed to be in Multiverse of Madness and I was mad as hell when Raimi cut him out the film.
@@KingReaper1800 Agreed...we need Nightmare in DS 3 for sure!
@@AbitofEverything4U love this! And it would tie in X-Men more cohesively since every group has their own sub/super dimensional layer. In X-Men it's the astral plane, a layer of mental energy/power connecting all of time, outside of space. The psychic realm. And it would be cool if that was a multiversal consequence of the mind stone. Soul would be afterlife, space becomes a trans dimension stuff, power is the jump points and tears, reality is the mirrored worlds and variant characters like quantum and counter Earth cap Carter etc, time is the progression/evolution of each character & arc to their most powerful and both limbo and the watcher realms. Dream watching would be wrong since it's breaking into the realm and possessing a variant without consent. And the possessed's actions could cause incursions.
@@MyNameBeeKayy Well said...yes that does tie in the X-men really well.
Great video as always! I never thought the multiverse was actually this consistent and complex. I wouldn't know half of the stuff I know about the MCU without you, you rock!
Aw, thanks...that's so nice of you to say. Yeah, I think they made things abit complex, but I'm hoping they can make it as simple as possible when we get our next multiversal movie. Just having someone like Dr. Selvig get on a chalkboard and draw it out would be so cool. We so need that! Anyway, I truly appreciate you watching the viad and sharing your positive feedback. Thanks so much!
I really enjoy how you choose to depict the Multiverse model. Also, if you do take the spider verse into consideration, the reality Stone thing can also explain while there's a Lego Universe😅
Niiiiice! Yes, that would indeed explain the Lego Universe. I love it!
I’d also like to add that since America can naturally do what she does, I don’t think she’d be able to cause an incursion alone.
Great point...I 100% agree!
Yeah, strange was the issue as stated in the movie
@@Tevin-MK Yep...totally agree...well said!
I’ve been watching your videos for a couple months now and I have gained a ton of knowledge on updates, release dates, and other information about the MCU. I just want to thank you for helping me gain all of this knowledge
Facts
Thanks so much for the kind words and positive feedback. I love the MCU and I hope it shows in the vids. I also love all the fellow MCU fans that leave helpful feedback on the vids to improve them. Truly appreciate you being part of that community!
me too good to know this channel.
@@AbitofEverything4UHey! Hope all is well with you at the start of this New Year.
I think Battleworld will be created by one of the characters weaving together fragments of different timelines/universes to create this singular patchwork reality. I think it will resemble the Sacred Timeline, but will be multicolored and resemble a rainbow.
@@MarvelStationTH Thanks so much!
So when you getting hired as timekeeper at marvel? Like seriously this is great stuff, absolutely love this video and it's breakdown. Awesome work!
Oh man...that would be a dream job. But in lieu of that, I'm having alot of fun making the MCU vids. Thx so much for watching and sharing your positive feedback!
I have a theory on the Multiverse tree. I think the purple highlights on top of the tree is the Great Web of the Spider-Verse deep inside that cosmic and mystic web
I'd be totally down for that...regardless of that Lord and Miller quote, I think the MCU and the Spider-Verse are definitely connected. Very cool theory...thanks for sharing!
The TVA labeling 616 at all implies that they actually do know of other universes like the paint one.
Great point! So my theory on that is the HWR came up with the 616 numbering (perhaps the original Kang Council assigned numbers to the universes?) and the TVA is just using it due to what HWR told them. I mean, they seemed to think the Sacred Timeline was all there was for a long time...but it was only when they realized that the loom existed that they even realized that more than one timeline existed. However, they still considered the timelines to be based off of 616, it seems.
Still, it's a bit like if I added "Earth" to the addresses of every letter I sent.
Which I'm now going to start doing 😂
Great video as always!
@@matthewwithanm LOL! True...but then, the TVA is the government after all, so we can't expect them to think it all through!
I’m wondering about the magical limits within the 616 Multiverse. In MoM, Strange and Wanda aren’t able to physically travel through alternate universes (without innate powers such as Chavez’s), however Strange, with his same magical capabilities later in MoM, was able to pull people from alternate multiverses as seen in No Way Home (considering that the Toby Maguire and Andrew Garfield universes are alternate and not branched from 616) with his and Peter’s spell. Magic in 616 available for usage by people such as Strange wouldn’t allow travel to alternate multiverses, but somehow can be used to pull people from alternate multiverses? I’m a bit confused on that.
Excellent point! So I am wondering if what Dr. Strange's magic did was open a rift between universes by basically weakening the boundaries between them and thus creating an incursion. What America can do is safely jump between universes, but you are correct that what Strange did (by accident, ofc) was basically the same thing that we saw the bangles do in The Marvels. So I suspect there is still a difference between what Strange and Wanda did in the What If episodes by effortlessly jumping across branched universes, vs. what his spell did in MoM. But just my take on it. Again, fantastic question. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
A destructive power has no control, this led to all of the Spider-Man characters entering the universe. Focusing reality altering energy into useable gateways likely would kill strange before he could use it. All power used at once opposed to a focused blast.
@@platinumspike9578 Great theory!
@@AbitofEverything4Uthis is a great explanation and I think it works with what we saw in this movie and in The Marvels, in regards to what rifts look like. Basically his spell caused an incursion, so he didn’t specifically pull those people in with his own abilities.
When was strange able to “pull people” from different universes? He attempted to cast a spell but since he had to keep altering it, the spell went wrong. Loki was confirmed to be the reason behind it by Feige. This caused people from different realities to seep through when it cracked open for a moment.
I would say those are all still timelines, alternate universes can have vastly different origins with similar results but timelines are based of the same origin with alternate realities taking different paths. I would definitely say they are two separate things
It's like this....
Earth - 1999999
Sacred Timeline (Original Timeline)
Branched Timelines (Alternate Timeline)
Other Earths have their own timelines as well that can't affect other universes.
I agree...whether we call it a timeline or a universe, it's the same concept. I think what got so tricky is they call it a timeline in Loki and in the time heist, but they call it a universe in What If. Yet, in both cases, it's the same branching concept. So that's where it gets a tad confusing.
@@AbitofEverything4U both will have the capacity of branching. Universes are the the beginning of everything And timelines are built within that universes logic sense. Both can have many branches of its own and grandfather loops that break that same logic. Inorder for a time line to have been created in the first place however a universe must first exist. This is why the externals comics were created. To bring sense into the whole matter of cohesiveness of what’s what without confusion. Its Is its own paradox to begin with.
@@Iceboundjester8 I think for me, the biggest confusion I have is what the difference is between a timeline and a universe. To me, they are two words to describe the same basic thing. So in Loki, the branched "timelines" were really "universes" because they were independently functioning universes. I think timeline was invented as a term due to HWR convincing the TVA there is only one "timeline". But to me, a timeline is just the chronological order of events for a specific universe, and thus the two are impossible to separate.
Fascinating video, I have also thought about how the multiverse works with its rules and I had come to think that it was inconsistent because of MoM, but thinking about 838 as a separate universe clarifies some things. Now, as to why there are such different variants of Loki that have been able to grow to become adults, I have a theory. All timelines, including those in which variants were born, grow side by side with the same events until that variant does something different. That's where the TVA steps in, we see this with old Loki who remained hidden until he wanted to intervene, causing his timeline to be pruned. Excellent video, I await your explanation for the spider-verse.
Good theory on the Loki variants. I'd love it if they give us a definitive answer on how we got so many unique variants at some point, but I also think it's cool that they've left us to form our own head canon on it. And yeah, the Spider-Verse vid should be interesting indeed!
I'm consistently amazed at how well you do your research for these videos❤❤❤
Thanks! It's alot of fun to put the vids together. The MCU has so much interesting lore to it. Really excited to see where things go from here with Deadpool 3!
This will be useful to know. All the information is everywhere and never condensed into a single movie so this will help.
Right...if nothing else, my goal was to get all the info in one place. It sure helps me to have it all laid out like that.
I thought in Endgame the Avengers travelled to the past of their timeline, causing it to branch. The infinity stones are from the same timeline anyway and the branches are fixed by Captain America, who returns the stones back, ultimately preventing the branches and he is shown later in Endgame as an old man in the main timeline. This means he didn’t create a branch from staying with Peggy and the branches created by removing infinity stones was fixed. The branch created by Loki was pruned, so I think the only branch created in Endgame was the 2014 Thanos one because it’s the only time where anything really changed (Thanos and his whole army disappear out of existence)
Great feedback. I agree, the infinity stores are from the same timeline, due to them coming from a direct branch off the main 616 which was created when the Avengers traveled in the past to 2012, 2013, 2014 and 1970. Then, when Steve returned the stones, it seems like he clipped the branches by repairing them, although we don't know for sure. But I do still think he created a branch when he went back in time to live with Peggy, due to the fact that they are not able to alter the past, according to Hulk and living in the past would inevitably alter it. Maybe someday they will give us the answer to the question of what happened in Steve's time with Peggy. Fingers crossed!
@@AbitofEverything4U if Steve was living in a branch with Peggy, how did the older Steve meet Sam at the end of Endgame
So, my theory is that he lived with Peggy until the point in time in his branch that Hank was working with Pym Particles. He showed his time device to Pym and worked with Pym to find a way to return to the main timeline without using the time pad, as he wanted to surprise Sam and show up on that bench. Also, living in the branch would explain how he got that new shield, so I really like that solution. I sure hope Marvel gives us the answer one day. I'd love a special presentation showing him returning the stones and living with Peggy.
@@AbitofEverything4U I think I heard a rumour about it a week ago. A project called Nomad.
I am soooooo hoping that happens. Would be epic!
great video- as always. very exciting and enjoyable. not just marvel but also you have been very consistent, keep it up :)
Thanks! That's very nice of you to say. Yeah, it definitely gets me all the more excited for Deadpool 3 later this year!
As someone who had very frustrating discussions about this topic, i 100% agree with you.
Thanks...yeah, I've also had many discussions about the topic that I would label as frustrating. So I figured I'd pull together all the lore we've been given and try to piece it all together. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your feedback!
I was adamant on timelines and universes being pretty different things and that the multiverse worked a lot differently and that Marvel had no idea what they were doing with it and it was all just a mess. However, your video has convinced me otherwise and explained everything a lot clearer than all the Marvel movies and TV shows have. I will now be referring to this video on discussions about the Marvel Multiverse/Megaverse from now on.
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Yeah, I was in the same boat as you in that I focused on the words/terms more than the concepts. I mean, they do call them timelines in Loki and universes in What If, so I figured that means they are something different. Likewise, Victor did say multiverse in the finale and the Watcher says multiverse a few times in What If and then they say multiverse in Dr. Strange 2, so I figured all of them had to be the same thing. But, like you said, the rules make no sense in that case.
So I finally moved past the words / terms, since some characters naturally are speaking from their own knowledge of things and thus might re-use the same term in a different context. When I instead looked at the concepts, it was suddenly like a light-bulb went off and it all made sense. Pretty cool. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts!
Awesome explanation! I struggled a bit with the universes / timelines thing in the past but now thanks to your video I finally understand it 🤝🏻
Awesome...I'm so glad to hear that! Thanks for watching and leaving your feedback. I really appreciate it!
This is the first of your videos i've watched and i'm blown away! None of all those fancy commentary channels here on TH-cam explained branched timelines and alternate universes quite as close to perfect as you did :) I have one question though: Do you consider dreamwalking an innate power of Dr. Strange for travelling between universes? It doesn't show up in your slide except when you explained the incursion risks below. Shouldn't it be considered magic because you need the darkhold to do this? That could be the fourth point in "Alternate universes / movement between". At least if i'm not mistaken :D Or did you just consider this redundant to mention since you brought it up later? Thank you for this video!
Thanks so much for the kind words and positive feedback on the vid. Really appreciate that. And you raise a good point...I probably should have listed dreamwalking under the movement between alternate universes summary since we saw both Strange and Wanda did it via the Darkhold. Excellent catch! Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback!
Love this! You are literally one of my top tier youtube channels to go to for videos like these! Keep up the good work! 🎉
Thanks so much...I really appreciate the positive feedback!
Just a thought on Gommora, Gommora, 2014 is not a seperate branch, but a point in time on the sacred timeline, by moving to 2023 she is now creating a branch as she is suppose to be dead, meaning the MCU is no longer on the sacred timeline but a branch due to Gomorra activities, just a thought
Very interesting theory! Yeah, I really hope we get a story at some point about how Steve returned the stones after the time heist. That would explain so much about how that branching worked!
Thanks for explaining this. Looking forward to this year's content!
Thanks! Yes, I’m looking forward to a fun 2024… Lots of good movies and shows coming out!
Theory: megaverses are the franchises, ruled by studio relations and limitations, which are meta dialogue and 4th wall breaks by their characters. "Im aware my universe is a smaller layer of your universe and we're both in it" and Deadpools shenanigans allowed him to create alternate "branch teams" within the fox megaverse containing MCU universe teams and realities.
I just rewatched Tomorrow War and something clicked. Like Kang said. "We could only explore other places that had gotten to the point where they too could explore." "We can only jump between the existing platforms across time. Both effect the other but the current flows one way"
The awareness or ability or technology has to exist in each reality for the place to connect to everywhere else. Somebody has to unlock the cosmic secrets first.
That's a cool theory. So the omniverse would be multiple megaverses (i.e. franchises). I'd be down for that!
@@AbitofEverything4U Exactly! Like how No Way Home bridged Sony, and now Fox is blurring in. Each "verse" has to discover there's more planes and variations out there, but we have to come across one first. Explains how so many of the same worlds are in universes that don't cross but exist together on the same timeline, until a crossover happens. And then discovery of all the realms comes shortly after.
Right...I think that works really well!
That Loki book lookin like it wants to sit down on a throne on my shelf
lol...best of luck!
I think Marvel fumbled a little because, in No Way Home, Doctor Strange is obviously aware that Spider-Man’s villains being in the wrong universe will destroy the fabric of reality aka an incursion. Yet in Multiverse of Madness, which takes place after No Way Home, he still has to ask what an incursion is and Reed Richards gives him the explanation. So either Marvel accidentally fumbled or someone at the studio didn’t do their homework because how can Strange suddenly forget what an incursion is?
Because he never heard the term incursion used before. Earth 838 was more advanced with a multiverse research team
@@CoLdBl0oD93 if he had never heard of the word incursion then he wouldn’t have gone out of his way to grab every villain as soon as possible before they caused serious problems for the main MCU universe.
So, an interesting factoid is that MoM was supposed to come out before NWH and it was supposed to be America Chavez that pulled Peter 2 and Peter 3 into 616 instead of Ned, since she would have been introduced at that point. But covid got in the way and the movies were reversed.
That could explain irl why Strange's reaction to incursions seems odd in MoM. But ig the "in-universe" answer could be that Strange didn't understand how the multiverse really worked and had never heard of incursions in NWH, but he did at least realize his spell caused the issue. Then, in MoM, he heard the term for the first time and it threw him off abit, since in NWH he didn't actually visit another universe but was just sending people back home again.
Not the best answer, but considering the switch that had to occur with the movies, it might be the best we can do. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@CoLdBl0oD93 Yeah, I think that's the safest answer. The movies had to be switched around due to covid, so it did mess the storylines up abit.
@@AbitofEverything4U OMG that makes a lot more sense! Since America being introduced by Strange kinda implies she's his magical successor. But I like that ned was her stand in because now there are two new Sorcerer Supreme candidates (Ned & America) and if so Wong could mentor Ned while America sticks with Steven (and be besties lol sorry Peter). AND Ned now has even more potential to become a Spiderman villain like A golden hobgoblin. "And I promise I'll never turn evil and try to kill you"
"But Ned.... You promised."
"Sorry Peter, but in the grand calculus of the multiverse....."
Thank you so much for taking your time to do these videos.
You are most welcome...thank you for watching and leaving your thoughts!
Today Finally Daredevil is in MCU (Upload by an Official)
Can't wait for Agents of SHIELD
Always has been
Yep...that sure sounded official to me. Makes me all the more excited for Echo to drop next week!
@@giovannigiovanni.7220actually after Marvel Studios took over TV shows from Marvel TV, everything was up in the air. We weren’t sure if this was the exact same daredevil or not, but the other day they officially confirmed it.
@@AbitofEverything4U can't wait hope is good as same level netflix stuff
@@giovannigiovanni.7220 "always will be" Loki S2
Love your videos! I love how in depth you are while also clear!
Thanks so much...really appreciate that!
Nice video as always
My friends were asking me some questions about the working of timelines and multiverse...
I did try to explain but turns out i dont have that much knowledge in it as well.
I'll for sure recommend this video to them.
Thanks man, looking forward to the next video.
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Please feel free to share it with your friends and if they have anything they think I should change, I'm always open to new ideas.
love the videos man keep it up!
Many thanks! Really appreciate the positive feedback!
I love how much research you put into your videos and especially how logically you describe the differences between timelines, universes, multiverses, megaverses, etc. I think everything would be so much more cohesive if the Marvel writers were paying as much attention to detail. I think they do keep this all in mind but maybe without attention to detail. So, while it would be cool to see the full cinematic realisation of the theories of the multiverse, I don't think Marvel would do that kind of work. Maybe they'll surprise us though? Still fun though to watch all the amazing TH-camrs unpack the different meanings of every line and scene we witness in the sprawling MCU.
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I truly appreciate it! I agree, I'm worried they won't stay consistent as the multiverse saga continues to unfold, but on the other hand, it's very encouraging that Waldron is writing Avengers 5 and 6, considering that he also wrote Loki and MoM. Fingers crossed they keep things consistent going forward!
@@AbitofEverything4U that’s an excellent point! As we just wait and see how it turns out, I’m glad we have all these amazing TH-cam videos to keep up immersed and excited 😅
@@rahulgandhi7690
As always. Great job bro! You kill these breakdowns man, I’m glad somebody out here tells it like it is!
Thanks so much...really appreciate that!
I’m always super impressed with your videos dude, I feel like I’ve learned a lot about this vast universe after every one
Thanks! Really glad to hear that. It sure helps me to put together the vids, as I have to lay everything out in an orderly fashion, so I end up learning alot, too!
I am seeing all the discusions on the discord and i really think that marvel should choose this your opinion of multi multiverses .
You are amazing on explaying 💯💯💯.
Glad to have someone to guide US on this MCU multiverse mess😂
Thanks so nice of you to say. Yeah, I love the discord server as it lets people throw out lots of creative ideas and I like to hear differing opinions. In fact, I've evolved the model abit over time thanks to all the great feedback.
Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Would love to get your thoughts on The Defenders Saga being reclaimed as canon by Marvel Studios and how that affects the other six series.
Yeah, I should probably do a vid on that soon. It was a bombshell of an announcement. Makes me all the more excited for Echo to drop next week!
If one is in, They're all in
Luke Cage directly references Cloak and Dagger, which also directly ties to Runaways
While Runaway's Darkhold is the same as AOS
@@jesusramirezromo2037So I'm going to do a video on that very topic soon!
Found you on TH-cam recently and very glad I did. Clear you take a lot of time to do this and it's appreciated.
Thanks so much...I really appreciate the positive feedback. And so glad you found the channel!
I love your content. It's just really genuine, and I love it when I see a new video on my YT page. What an amazing TH-camr!
Thanks so much...I really do appreciate you watching and sharing the positive feedback!
I love the mcu and your vids just make it more lovable
That's so great to hear. I'm so glad to hear the vids can add to your enjoyment of the MCU!
Amazing breakdown of the Marvel cinematic multiverse, can't wait for it to continue in future multiverse projects like Deadpool 3, Avengers 5 and Secret Wars etc.
Same here...the multiverse saga is fascinating and I can't wait to see what they have in store for us with Deadpool 3!
This was a great recap of the multiverse ! Really made sense of it all, great video!
Thanks so much...I really appreciate the positive feedback!
41:23 "No one worked together" kind of sums up the Multiverse Saga at this point.
Yeah… There’s no doubt that the pandemic made it so that Marvel didn’t have their writers on the same page often enough. I’m actually quite shocked that things have fit together so well, but definitely the terms have been an issue in that each writer is calling the same thing different terms. Hoping things will get more clear as the Multiverse continues on… Really looking forward to Deadpool 3!
34:15 With evolution, it's not really about time, but generations, which are necessarily correlated with time only because it takes a while to make a new generation. But with the timelines, it doesn't require the passage of (significant) time to make a new generation (branch). That means you could have a branch of a branch of a branch (etc.) basically instantaneously, where the final one is incompatible with the first (in terms of stone/incursion rules), similar to how distantly related species are incompatible with each other.
This just further strengthens your point about the different models being effectively the same! 🙂
Excellent point! Yes, it is indeed about generations and due to the branching, we can get that generational change alot faster and thus time isn't a necessarily factor. Love that...great feedback!
This also neatly addresses the confusion between timelines and universes-they're just the equivalent of species and genus. There's no need for timelines to "disconnect"; just diverge significantly enough. Cows and pigs aren't disconnected in the evolutionary tree (they share a common ancestor if you go back far enough) but can't breed. Similarly, 616 and 838 aren't disconnected from each other in the timeline tree (they share a common ancestor if you go back far enough) but can't pollute each other without trouble.
I like it! 😅
Niiiiiice!
Essentially the way I see it is that Spider-Verse content would be part of the Omniverse. That it's their own Multiverse/Megaverse self-contained like that of DC and Dragon Ball and Fortnite etc. That in short crossovers and connections are still possible...It would just be going further than the concept of the Multiverse/Megaverse and that each of them truly do have their own rules (Canon Events for Spider-Verse, Incursions for the Marvel Megaverse for examples).
Good feedback...yeah, at this point, what you have described is definitely the safest way to view things. Will be interesting to see where they take the story with BTSV. Can't wait for that movie to arrive!
This is 🔥
Thank you for your hard work!
Thanks so much...had alot of fun putting it all together!
you are right on point. and this is so well put together. thx as always for sharing your research! quickly becoming the missing manual for the mcu
Okay, that's so weird...I know I replied, but I don't see it in the comments. Anyway, I really appreciate your kind words and positive feedback. Thanks so much!
Excellent breakdown! i actually didn't think the mcu multiverse was this well-written, and now that i think about it; Michael Waldron writing the next two avengers films makes sense 👌🏼
ikr? I was surprised by how well it all fit together and I agree, Waldron writing the next two Avengers movies is perfect. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U ur welcome buddy 👊🏼
☺️
I feel like Mobius referencing "616" at all kind of speaks to the TVA having knowledge of other universes.
Good point! So my theory is that when the Kang council first met peacefully, they shared knowledge and numbered their universes. HWR's was likely 616. So when he built the loom to protect himself from the others, he therefore used that numbering for all of the timeline segments and branches. So I think the TVA views it as their universe number, but isn't aware (at least not yet) of the alternate universes such as 838 or Deadpool's universe. We'll learn alot more when Deadpool 3 comes out, I suspect. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I truly appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U thanks for replying! I wasn't challenging your theory so sorry if it came off that way lol. I really like that MCU movies make you have to think about what's going on but lately I've been feeling like I need a theoretical physics degree to understand what's happening lol. Love your videos!
Oh, I don't mind if you were challenging it. I love to get feedback on the vids and constructive criticism always helps make the vids better. Plus you raised a great point!
Just discovered your channel and what a great video to start with!
Awesome! So glad to have you here. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your positive feedback!
Your voice is so soothing! 😊(AMAZING VIDEO, GREAT DETAILS)
That's so nice of you to say. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your positive feedback. Really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U You’re welcome 🤗
😊
I actually love this explanation so much. It just makes a lot of sense.
Great Video!
Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vid. I really appreciate it!
I think 838 was probably supposed to be a 616 branch, or at least, at the point of writing MoM they didnt know their own rules yet. Honestly I think the best explanation of why travel between 838 and 616 was impossible is essentially a continuity error. I also think the animated and paint universes are stylistic choices for the sake of visuals and arent supposed to "fit" anywhere. I think your model is correct but I think all live action movies/shows will only ever show 616 branches and I think that includes 838 and The Marvels post credit scene via continuity error
Naw I think you’re off my guy. Marvel has always gone by separate numerical universe designations, and that’s how the Spiderverse movies are set up as well. And we know they’re connected to the MCU through the multiverse.
Yeah, I really do like the idea of 838 being a branch off of 616. But it seems that it behaves so differently from other branches off 616. Plus, I am betting we'll see more and more universes that behave like 838. I bet Deadpool's universe will be like that, as well as the universe we see in The Marvels. So we'll have to wait and see what happens from here. Really do appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Thanks so much!
The Waldron interview where he literally explains the difference between a branch and an alternate universe and where he confirms that 838 is NOT a branch was shot on the set of Dr. Strange in the MoM, so he definitely knew had those rules laid out when he was writing the movie. It's not a continuity error.
@@KostisPat257 Great point...yeah, I agree...Waldron definitely made the rules of MoM fit with the rules of Loki, as he wrote both and has a firm grasp of the overall multiversal model that the MCU is using.
Absolutely wonderful video!!! It’s about time someone actually put together everything we have been shown about the multiverse (or megaverse) and put together a canon based off of it. I do have some questions (I really do apologise in advance, I think I’ve written enough here that it might need its own entire video 😅). I understand that some of the answers to these questions also might not exist yet, I understand completely. Some of my questions are also a bit related to other videos by you too.
1. Apparently the time heist was supposed to happen so therefore it didn’t create a branch, and we can corroborate this too by seeing no physical branches on the sacred timeline/universe at the citadel or at the TVA. But then how did it actually happen without creating a new branch?
2. If Wanda has the ability to travel to branched universes (shown she has power to bring people from other branched universes into her own in What If… S2) then could she have gone to a branch universe where her children exist? I don’t think that would caused a universe ending catastrophe by taking them as that’s exactly what happened to Natasha in What If… S1? Is it because they don’t exist at all in this Multiverse? If so, linking back to how there can be drastically different Loki variants, there should be branched universes where things change enough that things like her children existing happens?
3. How do you think the branched timelines/universes don’t collide and cause incursions between the universes?
4. In another one of your videos, your “What exactly happened to the Kang Council?” video, you mentioned that Michael Waldron said that there were other timelines (or universes, unclear) in the sacred timeline (the different strands). Do you think that this is still valid? If so, how do they differ from branches and other multiverses?
5. Branching (no pun intended) off of that, how is the timeline shown surrounding the citadel different to the one in the loom at the TVA?
6. Do you think branched timelines/universes create new America Chavez’s too? Adding to that, do you think that there are branches of Earth 838 for example? If so, how do you think America doesn’t accidentally go to one of their branches?
7. I understand you will talk about this in another video, but does this mean that the spiderverse is a different megaverse? Do you think this means that it is impossible to travel between Megaverses? Adding on, do you think the spiderverse is an actual animated megaverse (if it is a megaverse) and not just a design choice? We see a live action prowler and Andrew etc, do you think that when we see these characters for real in Beyond that they will still be animated?
8 + 9. And the final 2 most important questions: Does all this confusion between timelines and universes occur just because the marvel writers thought sacred timeline slipped off the tongue better than sacred universe 😭 And even then, I believe they say that they travel to different universes in Doctor Strange 2, when are they really travelling to different multiverses, within the megaverse? Does that then technically mean that the movie should have been called Doctor Strange in the Megaverse of Madness? 🤣 Can marvel even get their own canon right? And, are you planning on having a meeting/interview with the writers/directors at marvel to discuss this and get some official answers (I think you definitely should try to, it is about time someone can clear this up for good, and I don’t think there i s anyone better than you to).
I think it is so annoying that Marvel will always touch on these concepts but then never go far enough as to explain them fully that we have to put together our own head canon, similar to how they use the quantum realm as a gray area. In this video you also said that you want this to be an interactive video for viewers and I’m using that as my excuse to ask all these questions 😅
But seriously, I have a strong feeling that if you keep making videos like this that we marvel fans desperately need, that once the MCU becomes “great again” and hating on it stops becoming a trend, you will blow up famously.
Much love
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, as it was indeed a big set of questions.
1. On the time heist, HWR wanted it to happen, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t create a branch. It means the branch was created and HWR didn’t have it pruned. We know a branch had to be created, as they made a ton of changes to the past, such as Steve Rogers saying “Hail Hydra’, Steve fighting himself, and Steve telling himself “Bucky lives”.
2. Regarding Wanda, I think you answered the question with one potential answer. It could be that there is no branch off of 616 where her kids exist. Vision was not human and perhaps that means they couldn’t have children. Another possibility is the Darkhold wanted Wanda to be all powerful and absorb America’s powers so it convinced her she needed to travel the multiverse to find her kids.
3. I think that branched timelines/universes don’t collide and cause incursions between the universes for the same reasons a real tree’s branches don’t cause issues for the tree. However, two trees can collide and cause issues. I think the tree analogy is being used because the branches growing on a tree are a natural function of the tree.
4. I believe that Waldron was saying that not every branch off the sacred timeline was pruned (as long as it didn’t create a new Kang) and that is what was woven into the loom. There was only the 616 sacred timeline/universe and its branched timelines/universes in the loom.
5. We are seeing the same timeline surrounding the citadel as we see inside the loom. It’s just two different ways of seeing the same thing from different angles/perspectives.
6. I am very curious how Marvel would answer the question of what happens if a branch occurs and America Chaves is in the universe at that point in time. It could be that America is pulled into the new branch and pulled out of the old one. That seems the most logical way Marvel could address it.
7. While we don’t have any good solid answers to the Spiderverse (since Marvel and Sony aren’t working together on their rules), I do wonder if it is a separate megaverse and thus they are both part of the same omniverse.
8 + 9. I think some of the issue with the confusion between timelines and universes occurred due to different writers, but that likely isn’t the only reason. Michael Waldron ofc wrote MoM and Loki, yet used the two different terms. I think the issue is also due to different character’s perspectives. In Loki, the characters really thought there was only one timeline, so they didn’t even consider different universes. And in MoM, they likely weren’t thinking about the what if branches but were focusing on the completely foreign 838 universe. But I do hope Marvel clears it up at some point with a nice diagram.
Hope that helps. Thanks for the awesome feedback on the vid!
@@AbitofEverything4U thankyou for your really in depth response, all your answers clear up my questions really well. Let’s just hope now that marvel is able to address the inconsistencies somewhere in the near future and can overall get back on track after Majors’ firing and poor reception reviews. ❤️
Agreed...fingers crossed!
Back at it again with the start to my work day being a nice marvel video
Niiiice!
@@AbitofEverything4Ureally liking Moon girl and devil dinosaur I see, such a great recommendation I also can't wait for season 2
Awesome...so glad you are enjoying it. Just wait 'til you get to the final two episodes. They are amazing!
Sorry, third comment but I think it may fall in line with comics a bit. To my knowledge, the comics had the multiverse with one single origin and it all branches from there, a single origin universe. Then after 2015 Secret Wars, Reed Richards reshapes the multiverse and makes each universe separately to where they individually branch and are all stacked/parallel to each other.
Very cool! Okay, I'd be very much down for that solution for how they resolve Secret Wars. That would be perfect!
Honestly, while the Spider-Verse is canonically a part of the MCU's multiverse, I still find it interesting how the Spider-Man-exclusive multiverse seems to exist to the point that other superheroes (i.e. the Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men and Fantastic Four) are absent. And each of them have their own distinct "animation" (i.e. 2D Western animation, 3D video game animation, anime, Looney Tunes, LEGO stop-motion, black-and-white, etc.)
Perhaps the multiverse has some sort of preference for the street-level wall-crawling vigilante? Maybe Spider-Man might be an important key to the multiverse in some way or another?
Another theory I have is that the Spider-Verse is actually a SEPARATE multiverse from the MCU multiverse and that they're both merging together with Tom Holland's Spidey acting as the "glue".
Yeah the Spider-verse's connection to the MCU is a definite mystery...I'm really hoping that when BTSV comes out that they try to tie it all together. And you may be onto something that Tom Holland's Spider-Man could be what brings it all together!
This is the best video on marvels time rules ever. Period.
Thanks so much...really appreciate the positive feedback!
Love watching your videos!!!
Thanks...I truly do appreciate hearing that! 😊
9:13 "how do you get so different?" Simple: you just branch earlier.
I'm also down with that explanation as well. In my vid on that topic, I threw that out as an idea. While I do like the chaos theory, earlier branches works great, too.
i feel like recently mcu releases couldve been spread out a bit more. We have had the marvels, loki S2, what if S2 and Echo coming up very soon. While im glad we are getting all of this stuff i feel like they couldve been spread out more so that we arent waiting so long for upcoming stuff between releases
Yeah, it's going to be a bit of a wait after Echo before we get anything else MCU related. Although Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is surprisingly good and we'll be getting that in February. But it does feel like we've gotten alot in rapid succession recently.
That was an incredible recap. Thank you!
Thanks so much...really appreciate the positive feedback!
Thanks you so much, this was very helpful
You are very welcome...it was alot of fun to put together. Thanks for watching and leaving your feedback!
Interesting video as always. Nice way of breaking it down for people who might be far more confused by some of these concepts. Also you are way too obsessed with the paint universe lol. Oh wow I didn't even realize that was a new universe being created in the What If finale. The stuff with the Infinity Crusher actually ties back into Loki with the 616.XXXX. It's similar enough (616) but unique enough (XXXX). Makes sense to me. A thought I have is that 616 is the tree ... but I wonder what the other multiverses look like naturally. And wow I didn't even consider the Deadpool of it all ... wow. As for Spiderverse ... from a certain point of view MCU could refer to 616 AKA alternate universe. But geez, those Sony people.
i love, love, love, love the paint universe. I wanna vacation there...please, Marvel can I go! And yeah...Sony...sigh.
Loved your highly detailed video
Thanks so much!!!
Detailed and still fairly concise, nice!
Thanks, sir...love brainstorming this stuff with you!
I think I'm still left with the doubt that why Wanda didn't look for her children in branched universes, perhaps in all of those they are not real, which would be very strange considering that the branches are also infinite.
Yhea that's a wierd thing to think about
But one can claim there is no timeline deviation that would cause Tommy and Billy to be real, so she had to look for a different universe
Yep, it is wild to think that no branched universe had Wanda's kids in it. But I wonder if it is either due to the fact there simply wasn't any time that she had kids in the 616...or if it was that the Darkhold wanted her to become all powerful by absorbing America's powers and so it tricked her into thinking that she needed to traverse to alternate universes to find them. It is a really interesting question, for sure!
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Yep, I definitely agree that's definitely the most straight-forward answer.
@@AbitofEverything4U Makes sence, Vision isn't human, So no way to form a branch where Wanda can have his kids
The only way for her to have kids is a different universe where Vision was a human
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Good point!
So the waypoint in MoM connected multiple multiverses, right? One Darkhold for the entire Megaverse? I guess I’m still confused on how to fit the claim that the Scarlet Witch is a multiversal being. Does that mean there can be one Scarlet Witch for each multiverse in the Megaverse? Or there is just one Scarlet Witch for the entire Megaverse?
Good point...I didn't mention the waypoint, but yes, I think it connects the multiple multiverses. It does seem there is one Book of Vishanti for the megaverse. As for the Scarlet Witch, that is abit confusing, as we saw her variant in the second season of What If. But I suspect they are saying there is no other Scarlet Witch across the megaverse, but you can have variants of her in branches off of 616.
Love this video and ur voice is amazing
Wow, thanks so much for the kinds words and positive feedback. Really appreciate it!
Good video mate 👍
Thanks!!!
Fourth comment (this video is so good for this stuff) but what if they aren’t gonna deal with the other multiverses? It’s called the multiverse saga so I assume they would stick with that? That’s me taking that VERY literal as Multiverse saga does sound better than megaverse saga. I just wish Fiege would say “hey here’s how it works” and draw a map. DC has drawn a map for comics multiverse but Marvel hasn’t done it for comics or movies. Safe to assume that it’s your main theory tho. Each universe is isolated and gets its own timelines that creates the multiverse (for Marvel) and then the collection of all those universes together is the megaverse.
I agree...I really, really, really want to draw a diagram of the multiverse for us. That would help so much. It is confusing that they call it the multiverse, but seem to have multiple multiverses at play.
8:48 okay i get it now
Marvel didn't even touch multiverse stuff that much (Different Universe) except
• Spider-Man No way Home (Tobey, Andrew)
• Spider-verse
• Venom
• The Marvels (Beast surprised)
• Doctor Strange multiverse of madness (838) also strange seem surprise it too
If they're jumped into another universe it's always consequences like Mr.Fantastic and Miguel said except you some special watch like them
Branches Timeline
• Loki
• Agents of SHIELD
• Doctor Strange (did dimensions count?)
And for someone who think MCU is 199999 yes it was until marvel desire to change into Earth-616 (Thor 2011)
cuz it's easy to remember no one except fan like us gonna remember that long number
But for general audience or some regular who doesn't give a heck about universe it's so confusing to them so less is more.
Spider-Man into Spider-verse also used Earth-616B and Mile Universe called themselves Earth-1610 is that from comics of course is different
We can have so many Earth-616 like loki told us. So like you said in a few clip loki just hold on entire multiverse but all that is branches timeline.
That's makes sense to me now thank you 🎉
Great feedback on the vid. I agree with everything you said. I can't wait to see where the multiverse saga goes from here!
@@AbitofEverything4U ♥️♥️♥️🤗
@@MarvelStationTH
Great vid
Many thanks! Really appreciate the positive feedback!
It's been a while since i watched a marvel movie or show, but i enjoy your theory and lore videos. Maybe even more than the shows/movies 😅
Aw, thanks! That's so nice of you to say. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your positive feedback on the vid!
In my headcanon Spider-Verse and MCU are connected. It just works so well😂
They're canon in multiverse of course and maybe Prowler will be back (or he just didn't even leave yet)
I agree...I don't get why Lord and Miller said that and I think the Spider-Verse is canon to the MCU. I'll do a vid on that soon.
@@MarvelStationTH Agreed...I think they have to be canon. I have no clue why Lord and Miller gave that strange quote.
@@AbitofEverything4U can't wait to see Prowler in live action with Spiderman (Tom)
@@MarvelStationTH ikr? That'll be epic!
Nice video it helped me better understand Waldron's explanation of Chavez and what he considers a universe and important to note that he is writing the upcoming Avengers movies so it's likely the vision. I still have some problems with it though 😅
Let's say this is the way Feige wants to go with it. I just really hate the idea that there is these other big bangs where our Stephen Strange looks nearly 1to1 identical. Like I get there may be a Cosmic role like the spider verse where there is someone who has to fill the shoes of someone like strange but identical no thanks. I also think it kind of undermines HWR he won the war but how does he keep the other universes in check my only theory to that would be that in Quantumania the place where the council is actualy HWR prison and can only be unlocked if the multiverse opens.
My understanding of Loki variants:
The Loki variants did nexus events notably Kid Loki killed Thor thats why he was pruned. This implies he's not from 616 as long as he didn't kill Thor he would have been left alone in his universe. Alligator Loki killed the neighbor's cat like those caused branches because it wasn't intended by HWR to happen. We also know there is a frog thor fun fact. We also don't know why Sylvie was a branch and my guess is she was on a path to becoming a Valkyrie rather than the god of Mischief. Classic Loki universe survived Thanos but when he got lonely and missed his brother it caused a nexus event which implies in another timeline he doesn't get lonely(kind of like parallel universe theory). So to clear it up its not a problem that they are not Tom's Loki but it was their nexus events. This means kid Loki and another Sylvie(she wouldn't be called Sylvie) are out there who werent pruned.
Question:
Why does the TVA know their universe is 616? And not be able to track other universes? Your argument was that they only know this universe 616, but why do they have to keep track of it then? Why did they have to name the universe 616?
So this is my theory/explanation. Btw haven't watched the Marvels but didn't hear anyone say something major happened other than the post cutscene which i saw.
imgur.com/a/OPO3N4G This is my kind of explanation and I would like to think is more easy to comprehend for casual viewers. So we have those stranded ropes and each strand is a universe. This implies that the sacred timeline isn't just 616 but a lot of small universes are intertwined. And if the unique timelines start to go into another unique timeline it would cause an incursion rather than a rift. As a rift would be from the same universe/same timeline. Incursion and rift not might be the same but close enough as an concept. I also think this explains my questions about TVA know their own universe and might know others and keep track of them. And it would also explain the Loki variants have unique timelines Alligator loki, Sylvie etc. But i would guess president loki is from the same unique timeline(616).
Let me know if there are some flaws in my theory. And once again I thank you for the amazing work explaining what we know in the multiverse so far. Keep up the good work 😁
Great feedback on the vid. I'll try to hit each point, as you raised some excellent questions.
1. Similar to you, I don't like the idea of multiple multiverses, but I can't come up with another way to explain how 838 is so dangerous to visit while 616 branches are no problem to visit. Any explanation that addresses that rule we've been given about the multiverse is fine by me. Waldron seemed to indicate that it was the branches that were the key, so that's what I was focusing on, as it does seem that traveling to a branch is not an issue while traveling to a non-branched universe is. Since Waldron wrote both Loki and MoM (and will be writing Avengers 5 and 6) I trust his understanding of Loki and MoM, but I'm open to other interpretations.
2. Regarding HWR, he "won" the multiversal war by hiding from it. He weaponized Alioth and then built the loom and hid from the other Kangs. You can check out some of my Loki videos for more on that (esp. the breakdown of Episode 6), but it seems to me that the Kang Council was out there the whole time, even when the loom was in place.
3. Regarding the Loki variants, I think lots of explanations could work, as they left it very open-ended regarding to the reason for how it happened. But I do firmly believe that HWR didn't pull several universes into the loom. He pulled in the sacred timeline and thus every Loki variant was a branch off that sacred timeline. Mobius also states that in the clip I included. He doesn't mention there being other universes...everything is a branch off the sacred timeline.
4. I think the TVA calls the sacred timeline 616 because that's the numbering HWR came up with. Perhaps when that original meeting of Kangs occurred, they assigned numbers to each of their universes and so HWR carried his number forward when he built the sacred timeline and the loom. So, to the TVA, 616 is all that there ever has been.
5. As for the Marvels, the post credit scene is indeed the key scene I was alluding to. They open that rift into an alternate universe and find the X-men there.
Great conversation. Love hearing what fellow MCU fans are thinking. Thx for watching the vid and sharing your theories!
@@AbitofEverything4U
Thanks for the response!
Why 838 is dangerous to visit is to my understanding that 838 is a unique timeline and people from other unique timelines aren't supposed to be there. I also think that the TVA has different sectors one that handles 838 and others etc but people who came from that unique timeline. I just wonder why they would make this Rope with strands if it was just a linear path like 616 it just doesn't make sense to me because that would also imply that the Loki variants had a lot longer branches most of them are age above 20. And if they were branched they weren't paying attention to that branch. When Mobius talks about going to a branch is it just they mention the timeline because we all know it isn't a branch because Apocalypses didn't cause nexus events therefore no branches. So he just meant when we go to the timeline we are looking for a variation of this guy.
The problem right now also is we do not actually know much of how an incursion happens and what triggers it. And im pretty shocked that Wanda didnt cause enough damage to their universe for that to create an incursion. Because we know Dream walking can cause an incursion like 838 Strange did. So it feels pretty up in the air.
And yeah i think Classic loki is my best example of him not being a branch but a nexus event (he might still be from 616). I just don't get how it can make sense that boastful Loki, sylvie, Alligator loki, Frog thor etc. Is from the 616 universe. I guess something that also could support my theory is that they are all variants with different variant numbers but the same Temporal aura/Cosmic role.
Found something that resembles very much my theory www.tumblr.com/rekaspbrak/661582984296775680/adorablelokie-how-does-the-sacred-timeline-and
The whole temporal loom also supports it being strands of a rope and my suggestion is that every single string is a unique timeline/universe and woven together is called the sacred timeline.
Miss minutes video also explains the multiversal war happens with Unque timelines battling it out fighting for supremacy and it nearly destroyed everything until the timekeepers(HWR) came and created the sacred timeline where the unique timelines don't interfere with each other.
Look forward to your next video covering MCU 😁
I'm pretty sure that the loom only contained one universe (616) and its branches, since we only see the 616 numbering. So each branched timeline was from a nexus point off of the main sacred timeline. I do agree that the Loki variant situation is at first confusing, but I went into more details on that situation here: th-cam.com/video/nb91pLa9hIY/w-d-xo.html. Just like you, I am really hoping that we get some more clarity on how everything fits together. Really excited to see the next chapter of the multiverse saga when Deadpool 3 comes out!
Persoanlly on the crusher issue I think it makes more sense that the watcher intended it to fail anyway, so contrived a bogus reason why.
Niiice! Okay, I like that as well. It did seem that the failure of the crusher was part of his overall plan.
this is such an amazing explanation
Thanks so much!!!
The real question is who's creative decision was it to have both branches and completely separate universes. Your explanations are clear however from watching the MCU alone the average viewer probably won't make this distinctions. Be interesting to see if that causes many problems going forward.
Marvel has slightly gotten better but DC has always been better at explaining the difference between alternate timeline and alternate universe.
I totally agree...while the logic has been sound, the overall concept of a branched vs. seperate universe hasn't been plainly expressed in any movie or show. Granted, that quote from Waldron is a gold mine and shows what he feels are the rules, but it's never been said like that in an MCU property. I really hope they do give us a multiversal model in an actual MCU movie or show at some point. Fingers crossed!
@AbitofEverything4U To be fair, a Doctor Strange monologue about certain choices leading to a split in the universes time lines would be a simple enough. But distinguishing them from separate universes and then explaining the powers of America, the Darkhold and TVA/Kang will make it messy
That's how it is in the comics. The MCU still hasn't shown the true scale of the multiverse.
To be honest, I don't think the average viewer really NEEDS to understand all these nuances. I watch Marvel stuff with my sister who isn't as deep into it as I am and is basically only a casual viewer, and she hasn't had any issue understanding the gist of the story. For all she cares, there are multiple universes that you can travel between, and sometimes when you do it bad things happen. It's us megafans that get hung up on the details and make all the theories to make it all fit together nicely. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, I'm the first who loves this stuff, but still, different viewers can engage with the same content at different levels, and I'm glad that Marvel is doing a good job at making movies and TV shows that can appeal to everyone, no matter how deep into the quicksand you are haha!
Awesome Vid dude ❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks so much! I truly appreciate it!
Thank you for the great video I was pretty confused between all of the shows and movies and this really helped
You are most welcome. And thank YOU for watching and sharing your feedback. I truly appreciate it!
Love that this has been explored in such detail for so long that you've been able to hammer it all out and explain it all in one video. Hopefully the general public gets it in a future story.
I shared the Loki tree video and didn't get a lot of responses. Maybe just bad timing, or they don't like YT links.
I wonder if this one would get more traction?
Just to be pedantic for a moment;
When you were talking about the 1602 episode of What If, you said it was something between timelines.
I think you meant it's a combination of 2 time _periods_ .
At least, it seems to me that's what happened. Steve brought the past to the present. That's how Peggy's explanation sounded to me.
Excellent point...it's probably better to say two time periods. That's a more accurate description. And thanks for sharing the vids. Even if people don't decide to watch, it was still really nice of you to try!
I wouldn't mind winning the time line book.
Nice video BTW, it's really well explained
Thanks for the positive feedback on the vid and best of luck in the contest!
New subscriber here. Great job!
Thanks so much for subbing. Glad you liked the vid!
Great video man, bunch of stuff to think about as we head into the 2024 year of Marvel
ikr? 2024 looks to be a really good year!
Love watching your videos.
Thanks! Really appreciate your positive feedback!
21:03 I genuinely appreciate you avoiding the spoiler as I just managed to catch the film the last day it was in my local theater, I think it was like the 28th? Anyways I love the video so far it’s a really well ordered project.
Your pacing is great too you don’t get into minutiae unless it’s relevant, and while I’m quite a super fan of Wanda Loki and strange (and so I rewatch the stuff with them in it a LOT lol)
I’m admittedly surprised because you are helping me connect dots I hadn’t on my own, I knew something was off but I wasn’t fully sure if it was my own understanding of the material or the material itself.
That's great that you got to see The Marvels before it left theaters. Yeah, I normally don't avoid spoilers this long after a movie is out, but I realize that The Marvels is a movie that alot of people didn't catch in the first few weekends. I thought it was pretty good myself and enjoyed it. And yeah, I love Wanda, Loki and Strange...definitely three of my favorite characters for sure. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Great video as always, and happy new year! One thing I'd like to add is about Loki variants being so different from each other. He is a manifestation of chaos, that's for sure, but we also know that he's an incredibly-skilled shapeshifter / illusionist from the MCU, the comics and Norse mythology.
It is very possible that these Lokis are so different from each other, simply because he took on different forms that suited his needs. What If Season 1 shows us a Loki who remained a frost giant since Odin returned him to Laufey. The variants Loki speaks with in the first season likely manifested their forms due to different environments, like when Odin first carried him in his arms (Odin could have courted a goddess who resembles Boastful Loki, or Frigga brought Sylvie into battle alongside the valkyries instead of Thor, or Loki was brought up by a bunch of orcs). We see that many Loki variants are just Tom Hiddleston in different outfits, so I think this is likely.
His nature as a shapeshifter and a being of chaos means that he doesn't have one definitive form, and since we see that Loki doesn't revert to being a frost giant when taken into the TVA, we can assume that his physical changes are out-of-scope for the rules of the TVA.
It would be interesting to see how this tracks if we ever get a chance to see variants of other shapeshifters such as that Light Elf in She-Hulk, Mystique or even other characters who take on very different forms like Groot and the assorted Hulks.
It's a slightly different way to go about why Loki has so many different variants, but it can also help us identify who else the multiverse might manifest for its purposes.
Great suggestion. I do like the idea of the Loki variants being shape-shifters. I'm assuming that isn't part of his magic, though, as Sylvie would have reverted back to her original form when she was at the TVA, since all magic was dampened. But since Loki didn't revert back to being a frost giant, I assume they can maintain that form as a natural ability rather than magic? Anyway, it's a cool theory for sure!
It's a lot to think about, that's for sure! But, it's an extra layer to a great character. This ability is probably separate from his magic, I agree.
I just remembered, but we do see a Skrull in Loki S1E1 in the base Skrull form. If we ever get the chance to see a Skrull shapeshift in the TVA-or if being brought into the TVA forces them to change back, then we'll get a solid answer about how regular powers such as shapeshifting operate within the TVA.
I like this Loki-shapeshifter theory quite a lot, because we still don't have a complete understanding of Loki. We know the forms he usually takes on, sure, but we'll never who or what he was at the start-because it doesn't matter who he is (and who they are) now. He is constantly changing, and that is chaos. The TVA just happened to document some of those manifestations.
@@AbitofEverything4U
@@inchterestingdevelopment Yep...well said. I agree, it's a very good theory!
This helps to explain the MCU multiverse a lot.
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. Really appreciate it!
FINALLY I CAN UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING NOW THANK YOU SO MUCH
Thanks so much...really appreciate the positive feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4Ui was like i hope there’s a drawing or model or something and THEN THERE ISSSS. Keep it up please ❤
Yeah, I'm a really visual person and I needed that model for my own sanity. Glad you liked it as well!
thank you so much. I was so confused for 2 years😂 and every video i would go to would confuse me more😂
Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Yeah, this definitely helped me as well to have it all laid out like that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I think that every Universe has its own Big Bang and in my opinion every Universe is in the Tree that Loki created in S2 for example the 838 Universe (with its own branches) is in the same tree as the 616 Universe (with its own branches).
Great feedback! I totally agree that each universe has it's own big bang. On the other hand, I'm less certain that the tree contains all of the universes. It seems Loki just grabbed the branches that were in the loom, as they were the ones that were dying. There wouldn't be any need to grab the paint universe or the 838 universe, as those were not dying. And it seems a paint universe in the tree would cause incursions with the other non-paint universes in the tree. But just my theories on that. I do hope Marvel gives us a firm answer at some point soon. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the vid. Really appreciate it!
I can't remember the last time I watched a full video on TH-cam that got my attention from beginning to end. I really dig this.
Wow...thanks for saying that. Yeah, I had alot of fun putting it together as my mind works so much better when I lay all the pieces out on the table and try to see how they fit together. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I really appreciate it!
Regarding the variants of Loki, there is a theory that I first heard it on a Spanish channel "Doctor MCU" and it talks about authorized branching timelines, that is, the TVA will not prune them as long as they do not generate a variant of the one that remains , and it has some support since when the sacred timeline is shown it is seen that it is a large line made up of small small lines, perhaps as long as all those lines have the same history some aspects can change, I know costume , gender or even species of the individual since at the end of the day that would not matter if the character fulfills his function as intended, after that he dies and that branch becomes exactly the same as the main timeline
I agree 100%! I think you nailed it. As long as a branched timeline doesn't create a new He Who Remains, I think that it was allowed to then be woven into loom. Very well summarized!
Great video as usual 😊
Thanks!!!
@@AbitofEverything4U You are very welcome ☺️
☺️
im sure it goes without saying at this point, but excellent video as always!
also, somewhat unrelated to this video, but i have a suggestion if youre open to it: i personally would love to see you do a timeline video for the _Blade_ universe if you havent already. id especially like to learn more about how _Blade: The Series_ ties into the original three _Blade_ films starring Wesley Snipes. just thought that would be cool to see. again, awesome vid as per usual!
oh, and happy new year! :)
That's a cool suggestion to look at a Blade timeline. Hopefully we get the new Blade movie going in the right direction and maybe they have some type of meta nod to the previous Blade movies and/or we get a Secret Wars crossover and we get to see Snipes appear. That would be sweet! And Happy New Year to you as well!
what a great summary/overview
Thanks...really appreciate that!
Reed pointed out that you must leave a small footprint essentially not affecting what exists there. This won’t form an incursion. The incursion being something that requires fixing such as pruning.
I responded to an earlier comment on this, saying that I don't agree as Reed said: "Stephen, your arrival here confuses and destabilizes reality. The larger the footprint you leave behind, the greater the risk of an incursion." So basically, just arriving there started to destabilize reality. He didn't even need to do anything before the issues started.