Dark Souls PINWHEEL ONLY Speedrun - Jerma Highlights

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2020
  • From Jerma985's streams - / jerma985
    "Randomizer until I puke" 07/03/2019
    Contact Me -
    Twitter - jackclishem
    Instagram - jackclishem
    Email - jackclishem2503@gmail.com
    Discord - Jack Clishem#6561
    #Jerma #JermaHighlights #DarkSouls
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ความคิดเห็น • 313

  • @trarialtrarial
    @trarialtrarial 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1525

    Seath freefalling with his arms up in the air might be one of the cutest things I've ever seen

    • @ChargeQM
      @ChargeQM 4 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      He must feel so free as he falls to his certain doom.

    • @xXLunatikxXlul
      @xXLunatikxXlul 4 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      "AND I'M FREEEEE...FREE FALLING!"

    • @chill5213
      @chill5213 4 ปีที่แล้ว +52

      The fact that you reignited the memory of seath falling with his arms up from 20 minutes ago makes me think YOURE the cutest thing I’ve ever seen

    • @papermartin879
      @papermartin879 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Got a timestamp?

    • @chill5213
      @chill5213 4 ปีที่แล้ว +89

      25:35

  • @Chilla-og6ne
    @Chilla-og6ne 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3569

    Is this the streamer that died to pinwheel 15 times in a row?

    • @3MolesInATrenchCoat
      @3MolesInATrenchCoat 4 ปีที่แล้ว +101

      i still cannot believe that... just how

    • @kevgmei
      @kevgmei 4 ปีที่แล้ว +87

      @@3MolesInATrenchCoat Well, you see how he's playing?

    • @wolfgod6443
      @wolfgod6443 4 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      Wait when did he fight Pinwheel? Because if you go after him at the start of the game (which is worth it because you get rite of kindling early), he's pretty tough.

    • @wolfgod6443
      @wolfgod6443 4 ปีที่แล้ว +122

      @@CopperBanana If we're talking mechanically, Pinwheel is easy because you can get a ton of hits in early while he's not doing anything. As he loses health he summons more clones, all firing fireballs at you. Late game you are unlikely to even see him summon more than 3 clones. Early game, when you can't kill him quick, you'll be hounded by 12 clones in a small room all attacking you while your back is turned attacking what you hope is the real one. Don't forget you had to get through the entire level, including the bonewheels, with limited estus and probably a longsword. Oh, and also don't forget the forced damage from the drop into his room when you're still low level.
      Now if you're an internet tough guy claiming "he's easy early game bro", then sure, whatever, you're good at fighting Pinwheel, cool. But mechanically speaking he can be pretty brutal.

    • @wolfgod6443
      @wolfgod6443 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      @@CopperBanana For real though I'm enjoying this discussion lol. But anyways, given his movements sometimes you'll end up attacking him instead of clones, and because he has a lot of health for early game, you've "wasted" time you would need to kill clones. It's a tight window too as you can't just correct your mistake, the clones pile up too fast, not to mention he summons more at a time, they don't just trickle in.
      I don't think a complicated moveset is everything. An early Pinwheel run can be tougher than Artorias depending on your own style.
      I think his early game difficulty is intentional too. Demon Souls does the same thing with leech monger. Everyone says he's easy, but that's because they fight him endgame with a plethora of fire attacks. But if you fight him early (as he is the first boss of an area you can enter nearly from the start), you're lucky to have a few fire bombs on hand and he has tons of mechanics that can trip you up like poison, regeneration, and high damage.
      Point is, some "easy" bosses get a bad rep because despite what we talk about, most people don't try out what you've suggested. They just kill him late game anyways. I'd bet you could throw them into that fight early and they wouldn't know how to beat him without high stats.

  • @spectrazone
    @spectrazone 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1905

    consider: wheel%
    bosses are pinwheels
    enemies are b o n e w h e e l s

    • @michaelpoliakov6040
      @michaelpoliakov6040 4 ปีที่แล้ว +95

      [colin's channel] Wow didn’t realise Adolf Hitler watcher TH-cam

    • @crungus.5427
      @crungus.5427 4 ปีที่แล้ว +126

      so basically dark souls but every single basic enemy is more dangerous than a boss

    • @spectrazone
      @spectrazone 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@crungus.5427 Exactly!

    • @squatchjosh1131
      @squatchjosh1131 4 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      THIS LAND IS PEACEFUL, ITS INHABITANTS KIND

    • @pacowallochenkenrick
      @pacowallochenkenrick 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Oh god, think of the hollow room in the parish, where the channeler usually is

  • @CursedDragon75
    @CursedDragon75 4 ปีที่แล้ว +293

    Hearing André being referred to by his much more domestic nickname "Andrew" is so funny to me.

  • @fernweh8709
    @fernweh8709 4 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    7:40 DOOR STUCK. PLEASE. I BEG YOU

  • @JustLunarr
    @JustLunarr 4 ปีที่แล้ว +215

    22:13 That moment when Gywn can no longer wait for the chosen undead and says "Fine... I'll do it myself."

    • @jonhilden417
      @jonhilden417 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Chosen undead, not the ashen one

    • @JustLunarr
      @JustLunarr 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jonhilden417 Oh yeah true LMAO been a while since I played OG dark souls

    • @jonhilden417
      @jonhilden417 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JustLunarr same

    • @funnyfatcathaha2565
      @funnyfatcathaha2565 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Gwyn never went to the kiln, he just hid up on some old rooftop with a demon.

  • @Filthma
    @Filthma 4 ปีที่แล้ว +605

    Rats, they're rats, they're the rats.
    They prey at night, they stalk at night, they're the rats.
    That's the giant rat that blocks all of the routes.
    Let's see what kind of trouble they can get you into.

    • @Erilis000
      @Erilis000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      We're the rats, we're the rats, yeah, where they at

    • @elite463
      @elite463 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Can’t like this comment because it’s at 69 likes so leaving a comment of support

    • @shukterhousejive
      @shukterhousejive 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      [loads randomizer] now I'm the Giant Rat, cool surprise!

    • @UlrichMcBeardface
      @UlrichMcBeardface 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Rats rats we are the rats, celebrating yet another speedrun dash,
      Pinwheel it’s your birthday today, pain and dodgerolls are on the way

  • @FoxSnootz
    @FoxSnootz 4 ปีที่แล้ว +148

    21:27 Incredible foreshadowing

    • @bloomsux69
      @bloomsux69 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I went straight to the comments when I saw him accidentally guess it right

  • @RobleViejo
    @RobleViejo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +70

    11:56 - 12:11 the exact moment he became the joker

  • @koalawithchaingun53
    @koalawithchaingun53 4 ปีที่แล้ว +276

    I didn’t think I’d ever see a t-posing gaping dragon

    • @wackyflappybob
      @wackyflappybob 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      When did it t pose?! I missed it!

    • @smerriebak3452
      @smerriebak3452 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      WackyFlappyBobb at the taurus demon

    • @M3x1cola
      @M3x1cola 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      when did it gape ;)))

    • @toxic_shr00m
      @toxic_shr00m 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@M3x1cola Always

  • @ihatebritain3942
    @ihatebritain3942 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    I like how that one undead giant thing (the big clump of flesh with a big stick poking out of his head and ball on his leg) that only appears once in the entire game in the dlc is one of the most common enemies next to the pig which only appears 3 times

    • @deeznuts8567
      @deeznuts8567 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      like his nemesis 😭😭

  • @legefy
    @legefy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +459

    25:35 Funniest thing I've seen all year.

    • @mypeepeeitchee2353
      @mypeepeeitchee2353 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Bokrug the Water Serpent funniest shit he ever saw

  • @NireFuster
    @NireFuster 3 ปีที่แล้ว +297

    [Beeping starts]
    "Jesus what is that noise"
    [beeping stops]
    "WHERE DID THE NOISE GO"
    Peak insanity, this is what DS Randomizer does to people

  • @LoveFor298Yen
    @LoveFor298Yen 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1131

    25:46 why does seath have a falling animation

    • @blackbaby6977
      @blackbaby6977 4 ปีที่แล้ว +269

      alot of characters you wouldnt expect to have a falling animation has one. firekeeper for example. yoel has one too i think.

    • @NickgerXS
      @NickgerXS 4 ปีที่แล้ว +94

      @@blackbaby6977 Andre has one.

    • @trainershade1937
      @trainershade1937 4 ปีที่แล้ว +261

      Most "living" entities in Dark Souls games have a full array of animations for situations that they may or may not to use, with some even sharing some with other characters. This is for two reasons, being:
      1. Many characters are made without acknowledging where they will appear.
      2. It can be safer to make sure they have all the necessary data/resources in play to avoid potential crashes/jank.
      Honestly, my favorite situation of "why does *X* have this animation?" is when seeing someone do a randomizer of Dark Souls 2. In which Ivory King spawned in the Royal Rat Authority's boss room, proceeded to sprint off the ledge and land with a combat roll.
      Edit: just double checked, it was InfernoPlus' video on the randomizer.

    • @ThrowAway-gu2lw
      @ThrowAway-gu2lw 4 ปีที่แล้ว +57

      @Jo Jo """Dark soul""" developer

    • @vusium
      @vusium 4 ปีที่แล้ว +91

      @@ThrowAway-gu2lw a singular dark soul

  • @spookhyskeleton
    @spookhyskeleton 4 ปีที่แล้ว +81

    How ironic is it that rats, of all creatures, would be Jerma's greatest foe?

  • @looper7159
    @looper7159 4 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    6:15
    Cue Live-action Jerma Rumble
    “ITS A GIANT RAT”

  • @HiltTilt
    @HiltTilt 4 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    The Taurus Demon spot was actually a badass spot for Gaping Dragon 😂

  • @timbered9619
    @timbered9619 4 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    The Gaping Dragon in the Taurus Demon arena unironically looked really cool

  • @trish7777
    @trish7777 4 ปีที่แล้ว +213

    39:05 As someone who uses Google timers and gets scared shitless every time, I was waiting for this to happen

  • @ghostofyharnam7180
    @ghostofyharnam7180 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    "I have all these DLC enemies." as the camera glances at exclusively base-game enemies.

  • @iug5672
    @iug5672 4 ปีที่แล้ว +737

    As much as I love 2ndJerma and I'm thankful to mackerel and all. They're more like videos than highlights.
    So I really wanna thank you man, these are great, definitely more time saving than watching the VODs

  • @MrSlaughterrific
    @MrSlaughterrific 4 ปีที่แล้ว +140

    6:18 and he makes all of da rules

  • @crungus.5427
    @crungus.5427 4 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    'I can handle this'
    *immediately gets launched off roof*

  • @yamomspotatosalad818
    @yamomspotatosalad818 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Imagine a kid asking their parents (specifically a dad) how they came up with their name and he just says “I just went into ‘random name generator’ and picked the first name”.

  • @Greenjay64
    @Greenjay64 4 ปีที่แล้ว +402

    How could you not include the part where, after finally managing to complete the jump he failed like a dozen times in Undead Burg, Gwyn zooms along and instakills him

    • @phoebedraper3046
      @phoebedraper3046 3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      That was RTGame's stream wasn't it?

    • @Greenjay64
      @Greenjay64 3 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@phoebedraper3046 aaahh yeah I think you're right

    • @walkingglasses6264
      @walkingglasses6264 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@phoebedraper3046 So that's why I felt insane when Greenjay said that, they were talking about RTs stream I thought i was going fucking ballistic.

  • @SpaceSmurf3000
    @SpaceSmurf3000 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    This guy beat manus, seath, and the stray demon at the same time but died to pinwheel...

  • @kingryall
    @kingryall 4 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    whenever i saw a rat fall off the map i could only think of the split second of the rat movie where the one falls

  • @stormp6962
    @stormp6962 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Seeing the giant rats fill up literally every door for Jerma to then be ganked by 20 snow rats is peak content

  • @slavicsnek7249
    @slavicsnek7249 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    Disqualified run, he isn’t Pinwheel

  • @STCburner
    @STCburner 4 ปีที่แล้ว +118

    Thank you for these edits. I don't have enough time in my day to watch the full streams so I greatly appreciate it.

  • @hitlord
    @hitlord 4 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    That Seath death, my sides. HAHAHAHAHA
    The little paws in the air, what the actual hell.

  • @seriouslywhatever3234
    @seriouslywhatever3234 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    14:35 - 14:45 ... That reaction just made this video worth watching

  • @pizza-for-mountains
    @pizza-for-mountains 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Jerma trying to parry Gwyn's grab attack is the funniest thing I've ever seen

  • @milkmonstrosity
    @milkmonstrosity 4 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    Man, that stick really haunts the randomizer.

  • @THExRISER
    @THExRISER 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    27:28 You'd think the eye of the storm would be a little calmer...

  • @douchedick3109
    @douchedick3109 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I imagine this is what my parents would see if they watched me play regular dark souls

    • @ammagon4519
      @ammagon4519 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wait this isn't how the game looks?

  • @massivebrosive
    @massivebrosive 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    21:38 i actually cant breathe

  • @ZiroZenStudios
    @ZiroZenStudios 4 ปีที่แล้ว +56

    “There’s just a bigger rat in here!” Don’t you mean *THE GIANT RAT THAT MAKES ALL OF THE RULES?!*

  • @JacobKinsley
    @JacobKinsley 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I love that he had like one bajillion souls when he set the enemies to bosses but never actually leveled up

  • @3dDoener
    @3dDoener 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    as someone who lives in Bavaria, yup, that description at the beginning sounds like your average Bavarian

  • @holidayiv6336
    @holidayiv6336 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That polehead dude really wanted jerma dead

  • @thetacopunch
    @thetacopunch 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    22:10 gwin got tired of waiting in the kiln for you

  • @spagetiman2500
    @spagetiman2500 4 ปีที่แล้ว +110

    Is this the guy who beat Pinwheel on stream?

  • @ileojg
    @ileojg 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    scholar of the first sin in a nutshell

  • @jehriko7525
    @jehriko7525 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    nothin more entertaining than seeing peoples reaction to randomized mobs

  • @lsvensson2166
    @lsvensson2166 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    6:16 I'm the giant rat that makes all of the rules!

  • @N.A.M.LazyCloud
    @N.A.M.LazyCloud ปีที่แล้ว +4

    25:45 Seath be like "Oh no, I hope I don't fall. Oww."

  • @Ayeloo
    @Ayeloo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    6:18 Jerma Nine Eight Five moment

  • @Crosshill
    @Crosshill 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    you could probably make the randomizer mod viable by having weight classes for enemies, essentially checking out how much space each mob and boss needs for its pathfinding to not get fecked up

  • @JadenGotShot
    @JadenGotShot 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Love the consistency of your channel, keep up the great work!

  • @fallthefox699
    @fallthefox699 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    6:15 ITS THE GIANT RAT HE MAKES ALL THE RULES

  • @Pahricida
    @Pahricida 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    25:46 When even Seath instantly gives up in despair you know it's bad.

  • @Thecesarguy
    @Thecesarguy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hell yeah, another Jerma highlights channel!

  • @J-1403
    @J-1403 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you, much appreciated edit Jack!

  • @TheSimplyJJP
    @TheSimplyJJP 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    32:10 The black plague colorized

  • @nicklemay8056
    @nicklemay8056 4 ปีที่แล้ว +108

    I'm surprised you don't have like way more subs

    • @JackClishem
      @JackClishem  4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Subs have started to really roll in now which is super cool

    • @nicklemay8056
      @nicklemay8056 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@JackClishem good honestly because I need my daily jerma intake and you're a good supplier, hope you continue to do this and get noticed more for it cause these are great compilations

  • @gandalf7437
    @gandalf7437 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    what did the devs think when they put gaping dragon up there!?!??! shm my head

  • @KonkeyDongkey
    @KonkeyDongkey 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watching jerma is a constant battle of figuring out what to put the volume at

  • @Baba-yv6ml
    @Baba-yv6ml 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Holy hell you do these quick

  • @cellarorcs4190
    @cellarorcs4190 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    i subscribed during the alarm going off. that was incredible.

  • @Scham_WCAN
    @Scham_WCAN 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    There is something so visceral about seeing Dark Souls characters T-posing to assert dominance over a terrified soul

  • @DKAssasinIndy
    @DKAssasinIndy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This really make you appreciate the correct enemy placement FROM did.

  • @SquishyOfCinder
    @SquishyOfCinder 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    The Asylum Demon wasn't Sif, the Stray Demon was Sif.

  • @thisguynamedmatt12
    @thisguynamedmatt12 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    my favorite part of the video is where Gwyn stepped in to make sure jerma didnt have a good time

  • @Freeman4815
    @Freeman4815 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    21:43 ,,I can handle this"
    Immedietly falling off roof

  • @theholyknight9490
    @theholyknight9490 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I love how the bell gargoyles was the first boss (asylum demon is a intro boss so more like a mini boss) and the last boss

  • @ChibiBoxing
    @ChibiBoxing 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Oh maaan Seth falling helplessly in Firelink Shrine fucking killed me

  • @gronk-droid
    @gronk-droid 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    this might be the funniest thing I've ever watched

  • @anthonyshlemon3848
    @anthonyshlemon3848 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    “I think it’s like a chef” -Jerma

  • @gluedtothemouse
    @gluedtothemouse 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Stuck between a rat and a hard place

  • @MrLego3160
    @MrLego3160 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Jerma: *steps two Inches away* "this is a good place to estus"

  • @MachiriReviews
    @MachiriReviews 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Okay, Gaping Dragon on the bridge is lowkey pretty fucking rad.

  • @Hrydra
    @Hrydra 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    just found your channel. thanks for the uploads! :)

  • @blarpie
    @blarpie 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was not expecting Jerma to reference the OG giantdad video

  • @B_dev
    @B_dev 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My ungrateful ass watched this 2 years ago not knowing how present me would yearn for a delicious MORSEL of fresh jerma content like this I am so happy I found this yay

  • @khalildermoumi5586
    @khalildermoumi5586 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This just reminded me of those resident evil 2 speedruns where they just have to run and dodge through the whole game

  • @thedemonslayer51
    @thedemonslayer51 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I don't know what that spike head ass thing is in the first roll, but it has a vendetta against Jerma.

  • @pmmeyourdadjokes9811
    @pmmeyourdadjokes9811 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Jerma: *installs randomizers*
    Wait wait wae-waewae -eh, what's going on, WHAT'S GOING ON?! oh wait, it's random..."

  • @theohdear9293
    @theohdear9293 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Oops! All Pinwheels!

  • @poppysilver
    @poppysilver 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    i knew this channel was gonna start blowing up soon :)

  • @derpyfan5261
    @derpyfan5261 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    YES!!! Thank you so very much my friend!!!

    • @JackClishem
      @JackClishem  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you for suggesting it. It Was a very fun stream to edit

    • @derpyfan5261
      @derpyfan5261 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@JackClishem Im the one who should be thanking you, ive been wanting to see a highlight of this for a while now, since i dont have much patience to watch streams. Again thank you for this

  • @goatonatree1062
    @goatonatree1062 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    He literaly died to pinwheel at the end

  • @kelakakku
    @kelakakku 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    0:52 I guess Elon Musk's kid got their name after one of those bugged out.

  • @sean269
    @sean269 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    How do you get a one off enemy from the DLC that’s one of the strongest in the game so many times in your randomizer run

  • @dentureadventure1490
    @dentureadventure1490 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    *" WUT RINGS U GOT?! "*

  • @wackyflappybob
    @wackyflappybob 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    "I can handle this, I can handle this!"
    Slowly slides off the roof to his death

  • @halolime117
    @halolime117 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Youre already a thousend times better than 2nd jerma because you actually include the name of the original streams

  • @NootalieWalf
    @NootalieWalf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    10:34 GUILLOTIIIIIIIINE

  • @FaptaA
    @FaptaA 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    i think gaping dragon fits very well in this bridge

  • @elliottevans2312
    @elliottevans2312 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    is this the guy that died to RATS and PINWHEEL on STREAM?

  • @RoyBright
    @RoyBright 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was unbeleivably entertaining hahaha!

  • @shitfaceeduardo
    @shitfaceeduardo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    10:49 this is the first time I've seen a good shot of what Gaping Dragon's eyes look like. New experience! Thanks Jerma.

  • @FREDSPASSWORD
    @FREDSPASSWORD 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    jerma being confused that there are two different bosses in the asylum is so great

  • @mitzo4526
    @mitzo4526 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    15:22 giantdad impression

  • @jcman-lp6lg
    @jcman-lp6lg 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    outro is Streamer arguing with viewers, best youtuber 2020

  • @scottyskater77
    @scottyskater77 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This roll is so freaking hilarious! Hahaha

  • @DanzigDB138
    @DanzigDB138 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would never put myself through this hell. But this is the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen.

  • @kota1155
    @kota1155 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    the sweet revenge for the fair lady

  • @raven75257
    @raven75257 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man, your laugh is hilarious. Like

  • @liquidbeans4209
    @liquidbeans4209 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love it when people decide to not change the amount of souls that are dropped. It makes the challenge just a teensy bit more fair